BEST Final Fantasy?

I'm creating this thread, mearly to satisfy my curiosity, and likely that of others? which is the best? (inc Remakes)[/

FF1? Four light warriors whom have no preset names?

FF2? firon and co.

FF3? Rafia and Ark?

FF4? cecil and Rosa and Rydia?

FF5? Reina and Butz?

FF6? Seifer?

FF7? Cloud, Aerith and SOLDIER?

FF8? Squall and Rinoa and evil sorcerusses?

FF9?Monkey tale Zidane and Garnet?

FF10-10(2)? Yuna and Tidus, Rikku and Lulu?

FF12? Vaan, Penelo, Basch, Ashe?

no Compation....VII!
lol spelling!<3

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FF6? Seifer?

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Buh?

10/10-2. Beautiful story. By far the most developed characters to date of the series. More so than 12 even (so far). I believe they perfected turn based combat in 10 so that's why I think they changed it for 12. Being able to switch out party members at any time eliminated that old problem of a cast of characters you never used. Not only that, we were forced to switch out as certain enemies had weaknesses that could be exploited with certain characters. Added strategy. Overdrive was the best version of limit break yet. They were more like a skill that you could use occasionally rather than once every 20 battles like before. And you could control and save them while still having access to the whole command menu. Could break the 9999 limit. Sphere grid held to the class system, but allowed for customization later on as it should be. The way I like it. Yuna made an awsome Black Mage, but she was still more of a white mage/summoner. 10-2 brought back my beloved job system. And what a way to bring it back. Changing in battle and didn't have to worry about weapons. That was a big gripe with me with number 5. Everytime you changed jobs you had to go through all your inventory to outfit your characters. 10-2 no worries. As there were none. Made it faster and more simple.

VII, since X and there after Square has been shoving out utter drival with subpar stories badly paced, bad soundtracks no character development, motivation, timing, they was just there. I enjoyed VII because of its layered storyline, heavy character development and reasons, paced storyline.

FFVI.

The characters are so layed out very well. I feel the pain. Setzer and Daryl, Cyan and his wife and son, Terra's mother and father. It goes on and on. And the story of course, and the music, my favorite part, and the best of Amano and Nomura IMO.

Definitely Final Fantasy IX.


Anyone who thinks otherwise is mentally retarded. :p

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

Definitely Final Fantasy IX.


Anyone who thinks otherwise is mentally retarded. :p

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Well, that's true, I mean, everybody knows that.

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

VII, since X and there after Square has been shoving out utter drival with subpar stories badly paced, bad soundtracks no character development, motivation, timing, they was just there. I enjoyed VII because of its layered storyline, heavy character development and reasons, paced storyline.

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You mean convoluted story that left us wondering what the hell was going on at times? Where the game failed to answer those questions till a few hours later? That's not pacing. 7 had character development.? Hmmm I sure as hell can't think when or where. They only even attempted character development with Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris (though I wouldn't count her cause she didn't live long enough to count). All the rest got what? 1 flashback scene telling their story. That's not character development.

FFIX without a doubt.

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Originally Posted by toad626

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

VII, since X and there after Square has been shoving out utter drival with subpar stories badly paced, bad soundtracks no character development, motivation, timing, they was just there. I enjoyed VII because of its layered storyline, heavy character development and reasons, paced storyline.

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You mean convoluted story that left us wondering what the hell was going on at times? Where the game failed to answer those questions till a few hours later? That's not pacing. 7 had character development.? Hmmm I sure as hell can't think when or where. They only even attempted character development with Cloud, Tifa, and Aeris (though I wouldn't count her cause she didn't live long enough to count). All the rest got what? 1 flashback scene telling their story. That's not character development.

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hey, hey, take it easy. i thought you said you liked VII. Well, in defense on one point - character development is, in the end, a character ending up at a different place than they started out. Vincent was in a coffin, yet in the end he "magically tells you" (as wolf kanno likes to put it) all the things he learned - he gains closure and moves onto whatever he did in Dirge of Cerberus. Barret, for all intents and purposes, is Osama bin Laden, yet he relates at the end that it wasn't the right way to go about things, and fights in a way that will truly save the planet. Cid is a washed up pilot, and in all likelihood an alcoholic, yet he joins that world-rebuilding thingy afterwards, yuffie a common thief and she leads that, too. Reeve a Shinra manager, ends up in a group saving the world, yada yada yada.

FF-X, without a doubt. Although XII is a close second.

FFVII, and leave me alone your smurfing meanies!

@Toad626: I find it funny that you criticise FFVII for its character developement after having applauded FFX for the best character developement in the series.

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

@Toad626: I find it funny that you criticise FFVII for its character developement after having applauded FFX for the best character developement in the series.

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Yeah that is ironic as X has NO character development at all, or pacing, the only attempt was a very bad stitch in scene with Lulu and Waka mid game.

FFIX is the greatest thing in the history of the universe! Its cunning beautiful mix of blending the three arts of visuals, storytelling, and music cannot be touched by any game!

FF6 - Seifer? Really? Have you actually played any of these games? Do you even know how to spell sorceress? Does your tiny average sized brain even understand how even mispelling a name disrespects the whole of Square-Enix?

I JOKE LULZ FF VIII BIATCHES :D

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

@Toad626: I find it funny that you criticise FFVII for its character developement after having applauded FFX for the best character developement in the series.

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Yeah that is ironic as X has NO character development at all, or pacing, the only attempt was a very bad stitch in scene with Lulu and Waka mid game.

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You would have to study college literature to appreciate 10's characters. Naturally in the state of public schools in this country you guys probably haven't picked up a book in quite some time. 10 contained all the classic types of characters. And it's my favorite because, they made an extra effort not to leave any characters in the dust so to speak. (Did this too with the battle system preventing having 4-6 lv 15 characters and 3 lv 60 characters) 7 was not the only game to suffer from this problem. Many FF's have had this problem. You have major stories for a few characters and the rest just get a few memorable lines or a flashback sequence. X tried really hard to include them all just as equally. Tidus was the usual protagonist, hard life, dad left me, now I got to save the world even if it means the end of my existence.blah blah blah. He goes through numerous growth of having to accept the harsh realities of the world and death. A big change for him considering he got separated from his life of paradise and fame, he was a professional athlete. How long did he piss and moan about going back until he finally accepted that he won't be? He learned to accept his fate. Yuna, was an interesting one. Yuna is the character that is too nice to people. She can't turn down someone in need. Her change continues all the way through 10-2. Her struggle is, is it ok for me to do something for myself. For me to look after me and not someone else. She has to learn to go after he own dreams and quit trying to live to others expectations. Wakka. Wakk was huge guys. Here's a character that has been brainwashed by a religion that is controlling his way of life. When he learns it is false, he doesn't know what to do. He realizes all his life the things he's known have been a lie. What is he to do now? Lu is the older sister. Kind of the know it all. Giving attitude to those that ask dumb questions. And always correcting people when no one asks to be corrected. Most novels contain a know it all. Auron, is a character that carries a certain stature to him. We can easily tell, that he knows more than he lets on, and that something exists in his past that has caused him to put up a wall to hide his identity/personality and feelings. Which turn out to be regret from letting Braska and Jetch go through with the final summoning plan. Along with this he wonders how long he needs/should remain in this world. Rikku, is a young girl fighting for the acceptance of her people that have been labeled outsiders. She's out to get respect for he people as well as attempting to changed the closed minds of the people. Lastly the Ronso, is out for honor and discipline. He left his tribe to fulfill a request, and continues to honor that request. This archetype is totally selfless and as we saw is prepared to die as he was prepared to fight seymour alone. It's all about bringing honor to himself and his tribe. All because he bade a promise and is determined to keep it. If only people could do that... So there you have it. Classic Archetypes that were well written in a final fantasy. These are serious types of characters that one could write a thesis on. These are the types of characters that Shakespeare writes in his works. The very same. The Hero, the Selfless, the diluted and brainwashed, the know it all, the guy that hides his pain, the outcast, and the quiet shawman (lol) that's all about honor. No other FF went into as great detail as X did of portraying archetypes. All were equally important and hardly left out at any one time. And each one took the whole game to portray instead of just a few scenes. (I wanted to bitch slap wakka for constantly defending his religion when it was becoming clear in the story that they were evil, but that was part of his change,)

But you can't blame it on VII for not having this stuff, it came out before it was possible to portray these types of characterization. (Facial expressions is a big one.) I think 7 meant to do more than it did but tech limitations prevented it from doing so. And who knows, maybe the characters did originally have more than a flashback sequence each, but they could have to cut it for time constraints. (I believe RedXIII had more, as he was a bitchin character, but all he got was a lame scene about how his dad got turned to stone by arrows?, Surly there was something better than that for a cool character like him, I have to believe there was anyway.)

I do like final fantasy 7 boliver. But I'm still gonna make fun of it. Wait till I rip on X. And that's my Fav. Every FF has chapped my ass at some point in the game. Example: Who the hell was responsible for that laughing scene in X with Tidus and Yun?. They need a swift kick to the balls for that one.

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Originally Posted by toad626

Example: Who the hell was responsible for that laughing scene in X with Tidus and Yun?. They need a swift kick to the balls for that one.

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OMG I just had to grit my teeth through that part of the game the other day. X is such a great story, but that is by far the worst part of all of the FF's I've played.

Personally, I don't feel like you can really compare across consoles. I'd say to choose your favourite from 1-6, then 7-12 since they really are in two entirely different leagues. I voted for X & X-2 because I loved the story. FFX didn't have your typical happy ending, and I actually cried at the end of it. Then FFX-2 came out, and both Yuna and especially Rikku aged very nicely from X to X-2, and the 3 separate possible endings catered to how much you were into the game, although needing to get the 100% was a pain even with the strategy guide. The perfect ending was just that though, perfect. However, with the old consoles, I'd never even hesitate to put my vote behind FFI. The desire to relive the adventure always returns every now and then.

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

Yeah that is ironic as X has NO character development at all, or pacing, the only attempt was a very bad stitch in scene with Lulu and Waka mid game.

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I would agree with Toad's assertion that X actually characterizes its characters quite well, though this is largely because of the PS2's capabilities (which he/she also pointed out). The characterization is more subtle in X...it can't be measured in flashback scenes, which are, in my opinion, hamfisted attempts to shove character development in. X's characterization emerges as a result of facial expressions, dialogue bits,etc.
I do have to say though, that I believe that ALL Final Fantasy games use archetypes for characters (duh), though not all of them implement them very well. I think though, what Toad is saying, is that X is special because it actually develops those archetypes in all of the characters. (Sorry if I'm being stupid for repeating what might be obvious in that post, it's late). Most FFs seem to only really develop the hero significantly, while relying on the archetypes of the other characters to stand in for themselves.

Oh Toad, I'd be interested in hearing which literary figures you actually think X's characters compare to? (...that sentence sounds gross...) I can assure you that I'm very well read (English major...who has some bad habits with grammar), though I seem to be drawing blanks on specific characters at the moment. Tired, perhaps.Tidus is obvious, as he's somewhat of a tragic hero, though without a tragic flaw, I guess. Hating his dad puts him in line with Oedipus, though...no...just no. :p

VI
6
IIII I
Six
9 + flip vertically

(SPOILER)thats size 6 font btw!!!

Must... control... anger...

I can't allow the notion that X was well written. It's really terrible actually and feels (to me at least) like a jr. high story rewritten by a college student. Yes it uses archtypes but most fail to move past their stock personas and become something new or original (something most of the other FF succeed in though perhaps not in grand ways). This in turn makes the plot horribly predictable and the characters flat and two dimensional.

My real problem with X is that its completely processed. Taking concepts and ideas used before but not allowing for any kind of growth or originality. The plot is straight out of Japanese mythology and happens to be a rather overtold story at that... Its cast are text book examples of literary archtypes whose only level of originality is shallow back stories and in the form of visual design. As far as personality goes, the writer chooses to never allow the characters to stray from their archtype and instead creates a bland and predictable cast.

The whole thing feels processed and formulatic, lacking anything orignal outside of world design. Perhaps this is why so much focus of X is on the world of Spira as its the only truly original concept in the game. X never surprised me and it never moved me emotionally like previous FFs had. It was just shallow and mediocre. I'm currently playing through it a third time but I doubt I'll finish it cause I seriously don't care. Its in fact, one of the few RPGs that I dislike more and more each time I play it. Personally, I don't care if people like the game. We al have different tastes, I just wanted to add my :twocents: on the topic of X being well written or characterized.

(Renmiri and Bolivar should have seen this post coming ;) )

I voted on XII. This game's story was just so much different. I found it to have the most depth. And who can deny the perfect quality of the cut-scenes - at times it felt like watching a movie. The downside is that it required too much level-grinding, which really slowed the pace of the story and made you sometimes lose track of it. I still love it, though...

I do not think of any particular Final Fantasy title as being the best Final Fantasy, but I think that Final Fantasy IV is a wonderful template for a classic console role-playing game.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I can't allow the notion that X was well written. It's really terrible actually and feels (to me at least) like a jr. high story rewritten by a college student. Yes it uses archtypes but most fail to move past their stock personas and become something new or original (something most of the other FF succeed in though perhaps not in grand ways). This in turn makes the plot horribly predictable and the characters flat and two dimensional.

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I think that this may be a part of the Japanese culture of storytelling. If you notice, many Japanese console role-playing games fall into quite a few stereotypes and clichés —

I dislike Western console role-playing games. I wish that Japanese storyboard and storyline designers would take notes when a Western role-playing game is released, though, because they both have their strengths and they both have a lot to learn from. I am sure that a Western writer could have taken the basic plot elements from Final Fantasy X and brought the story to a whole new level.

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Originally Posted by Roogle

I do not think of any particular Final Fantasy title as being the best Final Fantasy, but I think that Final Fantasy IV is a wonderful template for a classic console role-playing game.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I can't allow the notion that X was well written. It's really terrible actually and feels (to me at least) like a jr. high story rewritten by a college student. Yes it uses archtypes but most fail to move past their stock personas and become something new or original (something most of the other FF succeed in though perhaps not in grand ways). This in turn makes the plot horribly predictable and the characters flat and two dimensional.

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I think that this may be a part of the Japanese culture of storytelling. If you notice, many Japanese console role-playing games fall into quite a few stereotypes and clichés —

I dislike Western console role-playing games. I wish that Japanese storyboard and storyline designers would take notes when a Western role-playing game is released, though, because they both have their strengths and they both have a lot to learn from. I am sure that a Western writer could have taken the basic plot elements from Final Fantasy X and brought the story to a whole new level.

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I completely agree. My main problem with X when it first came out was that it felt like a dozen other RPGs I had played before. A few cosmetic changes to hide some tradtional elements but mostly a cookie cutter RPG. Like you, I don't care for Western style RPGs but there are elements I do like about it. The same goes with JRPGs. Personally, I feel both sides could learn a few things from the otherside. (Maybe I should post in the RPG thread...)

As you're not allowed to say VII without getting flamed on this internet, I'm gonna lie my arse off and say X-2.

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I can't allow the notion that X was well written. It's really terrible actually and feels (to me at least) like a jr. high story rewritten by a college student. Yes it uses archtypes but most fail to move past their stock personas and become something new or original (something most of the other FF succeed in though perhaps not in grand ways). This in turn makes the plot horribly predictable and the characters flat and two dimensional.

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Actually all of FF is fairly predictable. I had a feeling Aeris was going to die. And once she split, I knew she was the one for this installment that will be history. As they were killing off someone in each game for the past 3 installments of the series, at the time of 7's release (Tellah, Galuf, Leo and possibly shadow). I'm old, and wasn't a noob to the series with the release of 7. It's never anything new. They didn't stop the killing thing till 8. Even all of the fan bs rumor crap about resurrecting characters wasn't new. So much bs was written about how to resurrect General Leo in 6 long before anyone ever heard of Aeris. So even that repeats. As there's a thousand "so called ways to resurrect her" just like Leo.:mog: Morons. THEY'RE DEAD LIVE WITH IT! Both got stabbed.

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My real problem with X is that its completely processed. Taking concepts and ideas used before but not allowing for any kind of growth or originality. The plot is straight out of Japanese mythology and happens to be a rather overtold story at that... Its cast are text book examples of literary archtypes whose only level of originality is shallow back stories and in the form of visual design. As far as personality goes, the writer chooses to never allow the characters to stray from their archtype and instead creates a bland and predictable cast.

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I am of the opinion, that they don't move further or stray from their archetype because they DID rely so much on the characters. If the other games got into characterization as much as X did you would be saying the same thing about them. The thing is in other games the stories of 3/4 of the cast was told in a flashback sequence and we as the gamer are left to guess about the rest of their life and form our own conclusions. THEIR CHARACTERIZATION wasn't really presented very much. If it was, you might have hated them too. So yea, if you like it that way then you wouldn't like X. It's the type of person you are. I agree it's not original, but I say, who needs to be original. If it's not broke don't fix it. But I disagree when you say that they had no growth. Wakka for example had to accept that Yevon was false. I'd call that growth.

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The whole thing feels processed and formulatic, lacking anything orignal outside of world design. Perhaps this is why so much focus of X is on the world of Spira as its the only truly original concept in the game. X never surprised me and it never moved me emotionally like previous FFs had. It was just shallow and mediocre. I'm currently playing through it a third time but I doubt I'll finish it cause I seriously don't care. Its in fact, one of the few RPGs that I dislike more and more each time I play it. Personally, I don't care if people like the game. We al have different tastes, I just wanted to add my :twocents: on the topic of X being well written or characterized.

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Most FF come from some type of mythologies. Most of the summoned monsters and many of the weapons are from mythologies. The early games focused on balance of nature and the 4 elements. 6 was band of rebels vs empire (One of my friends that borrowed my SNES FF3 and commented to me that it's just Star Wars). 7 was just Shin Buddhism with all that lifestream stuff (gaia theory for the educated in here). 8 was quantum physics with time and alternate dimensions. 9 had a lot of philosophy based writing also mixed with the gaia theory. Which tied into Garland's plan and him screwing up the balance of the planet.. So if you think about it, no FF is really original. It's just how each installment puts a spin on the topic or theory they are writing about. X is no different than the rest. Most people that didn't like X, it was due to the linear play. Which I could see their point. Though sometimes straying from the story for an over powered weapon does get annoying to me too. I don't know which I prefer (on the border there) One thing I KNOW I prefer was being able to rotate combatants in battle. That has chapped my ass for the whole damn series. And it was about time they brought that feature into the battle system. So tired of having 3-4 level 70 characters while everyone else is at level 15. Unless you're playing 7 of course in which case your party was your materia and you equipped your character ON the materia, not the other way around. Even actual character level didn't matter because HP+ materia granted far more health than the level did. And same with Stat boosting materia.

Just thought I would point some stuff out, we all have different opinions. I do agree though that X isn't for everyone.

Well I'll start off by saying I'm happy to see a well thought out response ;)

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Originally Posted by toad626

Actually all of FF is fairly predictable. I had a feeling Aeris was going to die. And once she split, I knew she was the one for this installment that will be history. As they were killing off someone in each game for the past 3 installments of the series, at the time of 7's release (Tellah, Galuf, Leo and possibly shadow). I'm old, and wasn't a noob to the series with the release of 7. It's never anything new. They didn't stop the killing thing till 8. Even all of the fan bs rumor crap about resurrecting characters wasn't new. So much bs was written about how to resurrect General Leo in 6 long before anyone ever heard of Aeris. So even that repeats. As there's a thousand "so called ways to resurrect her" just like Leo.:mog: Morons. THEY'RE DEAD LIVE WITH IT! Both got stabbed.

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Yes, many of the FFs are predictable but X for me was literally knowing how every scene was going to pan out. I knew around the time of Tidus' revelation about Yuna being sacrificed, what his fate was going to be. When the Yevon faith was presented early in the game, I knew it was going to turn out to be false and corrupt. Not cause I'm smart or anything but rather cause I had dealt with this scenario multiple time before (Xenogears, BoF2, and FFT to name a few...) what bothered me most was that it wasn't dealt with in an original or exciting way. At times I had to keep asking myself why certain elements were even in the plot since they were poorly dealt with.

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I am of the opinion, that they don't move further or stray from their archetype because they DID rely so much on the characters. If the other games got into characterization as much as X did you would be saying the same thing about them. The thing is in other games the stories of 3/4 of the cast was told in a flashback sequence and we as the gamer are left to guess about the rest of their life and form our own conclusions. THEIR CHARACTERIZATION wasn't really presented very much. If it was, you might have hated them too. So yea, if you like it that way then you wouldn't like X. It's the type of person you are. I agree it's not original, but I say, who needs to be original. If it's not broke don't fix it. But I disagree when you say that they had no growth. Wakka for example had to accept that Yevon was false. I'd call that growth.

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Characterization is good but only when its done right. XII and Tactics for instance do wonderful characterizations and neither really deals with flashbacks. X has a very heavy emphasis on characterization I agree with but many of the other FF did as well (VI and IX come to mind) My problem with X is that the characters are more like pre-stock cliches than actual people. Even with the voice work, I never felt any empathy or sense of attachment to them which I've had no problem with even with the 8 and 16-bit era FFs.

When Celes tried to commit suicide it blew me away cause she had been portrayed as such a strong person, to watch her do such an act was an emotional blow and speaks depth of her character cause it showed another dynamic to her. Yuna deciding to continue her Pilgrimage despite learning its pointless was not so much cause Yuna' personality is trapped in the confines of her archtype so the player knew (or at least should have known) what her decision should have been. Even her crying wasn't out of character for her. She, like all of the cast never strayed from their surface personas. How can a story have emotional impact when its cast are card board cut outs?

Cloud, Squall, Kain, and Vivi were far more than their surface appearance. There was a true change in the characters (like Bolivar had mentioned) even though Wakka was hit with the impact of learning Yevon was false (Since he's the games token Billy or Rei, cause the rules stipulate that games with false religions have to have some religious nut who gets his world shattered by the truth) he goes from denial to acceptance and moves on like nothing had happened.

Had he been a real person, he may have left the group despite his close ties to Yuna, especially considering how much the game tries to make him out as a faithful follower. It shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility considering he left a previous Pilgrimage due to bliztball of all things. He may have left or at least more focus could have been placed on him trying to discover something else to fill that void. Basically, he's left as a characture cause it works for the story whereas real people tend to complicate things...

I understand that all the FF use cliches or archtypes, in fact many characters are the original basis for some of them. Where we differ in opinion I assume is that to me, the other FFs started with these archtypes and as the story moves on they grow into more realistic people. They move past the archtypes and become people that can be empathized with. Granted the games are not equal to all, there are several character who never move past their archtypes. As you have said many of the games focus on a few handfuls and 3/4 of the cast is left in the cold.

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Most FF come from some type of mythologies. Most of the summoned monsters and many of the weapons are from mythologies. The early games focused on balance of nature and the 4 elements. 6 was band of rebels vs empire (One of my friends that borrowed my SNES FF3 and commented to me that it's just Star Wars). 7 was just Shin Buddhism with all that lifestream stuff (gaia theory for the educated in here). 8 was quantum physics with time and alternate dimensions. 9 had a lot of philosophy based writing also mixed with the gaia theory. Which tied into Garland's plan and him screwing up the balance of the planet.. So if you think about it, no FF is really original. It's just how each installment puts a spin on the topic or theory they are writing about. X is no different than the rest. Most people that didn't like X, it was due to the linear play. Which I could see their point. Though sometimes straying from the story for an over powered weapon does get annoying to me too. I don't know which I prefer (on the border there) One thing I KNOW I prefer was being able to rotate combatants in battle. That has chapped my ass for the whole damn series. And it was about time they brought that feature into the battle system. So tired of having 3-4 level 70 characters while everyone else is at level 15. Unless you're playing 7 of course in which case your party was your materia and you equipped your character ON the materia, not the other way around. Even actual character level didn't matter because HP+ materia granted far more health than the level did. And same with Stat boosting materia.

Just thought I would point some stuff out, we all have different opinions. I do agree though that X isn't for everyone.

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Yes many of the plots are not original and I agree that in the world of writing, its not so much about creating original content as much as its about creating an original spin on an old idea. Yes II, XII, and even VI (though its more of a stretch than the other two IMO) are heavily based on Star wars (which in turn is based on several different myths and legends).

X is almost the tale of Orochi verbatim. Two earthly dieties (Spira) are terrorized constantly by the evil Orochi (Sin), the hero Susan-O (Tidus) appears before them while on his travels, he had been cast out of heaven (Zanarkand) and thrust into the strange world of mortals. He learns the diesties sacrifice their daughters (summoners) in order to appease the beast only to have it return to wreak havoc later (Spiral of Death theme) Susano-O decides to kill the beast after meeting the last maiden to be sacrificed Kushi-inada-hime (Yuna), first he lulls it to sleep by feeding it sake (Hymn of the Fayeth) and finally kills the beast. Other versions of this story has the dieties replaced with a village and even focus on the misguided notions of the villages belief in sacrificing the maidens as the only way to save themselves. Thus you have your reference to the Yevon religion.

Many of the other FFs borrow from other stories but very few are this damn close to the original. Its practically the tale with an FF spin to it. Its a good story and one of my favorite japanese legends but I have seen it done better in other places. I guess I wouldn't hold X being the story of Yamata no Orochi against it but rather the fact thats it couldn't come up with an interesting spin on it for me ;)

Though I do agree with you that the ability to switch out party members mid-battle was something much needed in the series. It had a few issues (like getting a gameover cause the active party is dead or being unable to switch out dead characters for live ones) but luckily XII accomodated these issues.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

(Renmiri and Bolivar should have seen this post coming ;) )

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When I read it, I thought to myself "I wonder what WK would think of this?" well...

Cyric brought up the ending of FFX... I re-played it over my winter break, and watching the ending, especially the part ontop of the farenheit, I honestly felt like crying, my stomach was in knots, it was such a... DAMMIT HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF ART!???

Lord knows how much we've discussed characters, so i'm just gonna say this: different strokes for different folks. I personally liked every one of the characters, I can honestly say I know people in real life like Lulu, or Wakka, and Tidus, and maybe that's why the newer games do it for me, because I can relate to the characters. I'll admit, you brining up that Susan-O whatever story thingy was like finding out Santa Claus isn't real, but I still feel it was an amazing story that gives alot for the player to take out of it.

I also wanted to say, I, too was blown away by Celes trying to commit suicide, but moreso due to the fact that like so many things in VI, it was really ahead of its time, and it's a shock to see a 16 bit game do things like that, like when Draco opens his mouth and begins singing. But she was pretty weak through out, expressing her melancholy consistently in several scenes, beginning with her very introduction, when she tells Locke to leave her there.

After Auron leaves, the ending means :skull::skull::skull::skull:-all.


That's my well thought out response.

But seriously, I liked FFX. FFX-2 even has its story merits in the Crimson Squad bit and the whole intrigue of seeing a post-fundamentalist world.

As for FFX itself, the Yevon faith was easily the mos tinteresting part. Tidus and Yuna was rather irrelevant for the parts of the story I cared about. Unless the history of Jecht, Braska and Auron is somehow tied in with Tidus and Yuna's story which i don't think it is.

The awesome thing about VI is that you dont often find games that have a serious story even though half the world is made of comic relief characters!

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

(Renmiri and Bolivar should have seen this post coming ;) )

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When I read it, I thought to myself "I wonder what WK would think of this?" well...

Cyric brought up the ending of FFX... I re-played it over my winter break, and watching the ending, especially the part ontop of the farenheit, I honestly felt like crying, my stomach was in knots, it was such a... DAMMIT HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS BEAUTIFUL PIECE OF ART!???

Lord knows how much we've discussed characters, so i'm just gonna say this: different strokes for different folks. I personally liked every one of the characters, I can honestly say I know people in real life like Lulu, or Wakka, and Tidus, and maybe that's why the newer games do it for me, because I can relate to the characters. I'll admit, you brining up that Susan-O whatever story thingy was like finding out Santa Claus isn't real, but I still feel it was an amazing story that gives alot for the player to take out of it.

I also wanted to say, I, too was blown away by Celes trying to commit suicide, but moreso due to the fact that like so many things in VI, it was really ahead of its time, and it's a shock to see a 16 bit game do things like that, like when Draco opens his mouth and begins singing. But she was pretty weak through out, expressing her melancholy consistently in several scenes, beginning with her very introduction, when she tells Locke to leave her there.

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Actually I do like the ending to X cause even I'll agree it was well done (in fact until XII, I would have said its the best ending in the series). I just saw it coming so it didn't shock me but I did find it touching. I just wish I could see Yuna as more than a two dimensional cardboard cut-out otherwise that scene would have really been heart wrenching. My issue is that the game has a beautiful opening and a beautiful ending... its the 40 hours in-between that bother me.

Celes perks up once she meets Locke and only goes back to being slightly melancholy when he doubtsa her loyalty. She's definetly too serious (I would say Terra was more melancholic than Celes) Her moments on the Floating Continent shows how strong willed she really is. Watch her go from that, to trying to commit suicide, cause she's lost all hope was just a shock to me.

Overall, I agree that different people like different characters (thinks back to being the only person who defended XII's cast)

^ well I said in another thread, XII gets better the more I play it, and the cast is one of the main reasons why it's becoming one of my favorite FF's. I initially slammed it for having each main character as an obvious rip off from star wars (Fran being the sexed-up Chewbacca), but I really think each one in the main cast (most in the supporting cast, too) are really great characters, especially Ashe. As "cool" of a character she was made to be, she is very human, and unlike alot of video game characters, she has her faults, too. But through the course of the game she overcomes these, and like Ramza, comes to the conclusion that the ends actually don't justify the means. Plus when they show her before the war and she's all young and innocent, it's really sad to think what an effect the war's had on her. She's probably my favorite heroine (sp?) in the series, that is, until XIII comes out :tongue:

A lot of video game characters have fault.s..heroes and villains alike.

My favourite is FFIX. :)

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Yes, many of the FFs are predictable but X for me was literally knowing how every scene was going to pan out. I knew around the time of Tidus' revelation about Yuna being sacrificed, what his fate was going to be. When the Yevon faith was presented early in the game, I knew it was going to turn out to be false and corrupt. Not cause I'm smart or anything but rather cause I had dealt with this scenario multiple time before (Xenogears, BoF2, and FFT to name a few...) what bothered me most was that it wasn't dealt with in an original or exciting way. At times I had to keep asking myself why certain elements were even in the plot since they were poorly dealt with.

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Course we knew Yevon was going to turn out corrupt, you got the feeling the minute we all saw Maester Mika for the first time. And Seymour. Though his character was s rip off of Kuja. But I won't hold that against him either as Sephiroth was just a rip off of combining Kefka's insanity and state of mind with the posture (both looks and arrogance) of Chrono Trigger's Magus. They even copy their own characters.lol. Wow, I'm impressed, you made SENSE of FFT's storyline. Worst localization job I've ever seen in a video game. And that's including a FF5 fan English translation I played years ago before 7 was released (long story). Don't get me wrong I loved FFT's, but that localization job. WHO AT SE was responsible? It more than made up for it though with its gameplay. And remains one of the sole FF's that contain something called DIFFICULTY. The hard ones are the early ones up to 4. From 5 on they are a breeze. 12 seems to be harder so far. No I haven't finished it yet. So I don't have a full opinion of it yet.

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When Celes tried to commit suicide it blew me away cause she had been portrayed as such a strong person, to watch her do such an act was an emotional blow and speaks depth of her character cause it showed another dynamic to her. Yuna deciding to continue her Pilgrimage despite learning its pointless was not so much cause Yuna' personality is trapped in the confines of her archtype so the player knew (or at least should have known) what her decision should have been. Even her crying wasn't out of character for her. She, like all of the cast never strayed from their surface personas. How can a story have emotional impact when its cast are card board cut outs?

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I knew what she was doing right when the screen jumped to the bottom of the mountain. Then the words of that bird confirmed it. Yep she's gonna try to kill herself. Since the game already killed this installment's character, I knew she wasn't going to die. Then I guessed she'd get some type of message from Locke. And sure enough she got his bandanna. No I'm not bashing 6. That was my favorite game until I got into X. I just don't see where you think that Celes was a strong character. She had to have her ass saved one too many times for that, I'd say. Cyan was the one that blew me away. Got to feel for the guy. Loosing a family... That could do a lot to a person.

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Cloud, Squall, Kain, and Vivi were far more than their surface appearance. There was a true change in the characters (like Bolivar had mentioned) even though Wakka was hit with the impact of learning Yevon was false (Since he's the games token Billy or Rei, cause the rules stipulate that games with false religions have to have some religious nut who gets his world shattered by the truth) he goes from denial to acceptance and moves on like nothing had happened.
Had he been a real person, he may have left the group despite his close ties to Yuna, especially considering how much the game tries to make him out as a faithful follower. It shouldn't be outside the realm of possibility considering he left a previous Pilgrimage due to bliztball of all things. He may have left or at least more focus could have been placed on him trying to discover something else to fill that void. Basically, he's left as a characture cause it works for the story whereas real people tend to complicate things...

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I've already told others, don't quote or mention Cloud. He was a sissy emo punk tart with self esteem issues. Luckily RedXIII, Barrett, and Cid were there to make up for it and save the game. Squall was nothing more than the loner, that's in every damn story/novel/myth/legend. I agree on Kain and Vivi though. But I think Wakka went on like nothing happened for a reason. Wouldn't you. You just find out what you've known your whole life is false. What would you do? So he turns to the one thing he does know he still has left, his duties and his friends. Those he knows will always be real.

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Though I do agree with you that the ability to switch out party members mid-battle was something much needed in the series. It had a few issues (like getting a gameover cause the active party is dead or being unable to switch out dead characters for live ones) but luckily XII accomodated these issues.

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I think that was more to add to the non-existent difficulty factor in the game rather than realism. If you had the option to switched out the dead ones, you'd never have to reset the game in X. XII is considerably more challenging (so far as I can tell anyway) so it's kind of needed there.

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Originally Posted by toad626

I've already told others, don't quote or mention Cloud. He was a sissy emo punk tart with self esteem issues. Luckily RedXIII, Barrett, and Cid were there to make up for it and save the game. Squall was nothing more than the loner, that's in every damn story/novel/myth/legend. I agree on Kain and Vivi though. But I think Wakka went on like nothing happened for a reason. Wouldn't you. You just find out what you've known your whole life is false. What would you do? So he turns to the one thing he does know he still has left, his duties and his friends. Those he knows will always be real.

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First you bash Cloud and then you praise Wakka for doing the same thing Cloud did. Cloud was a tragic character, IMO. He tried to act all bad-ass and was lying to himself about his past. What would you do, if all your memories turned out to be false? Surely you would have doubts as to who and what you are and depression is normal. But Cloud got a hold of himself and tried to forget about his sadness and live for the others. Seriously, I think this character doesn't get enough credit...

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Originally Posted by toad626

Course we knew Yevon was going to turn out corrupt, you got the feeling the minute we all saw Maester Mika for the first time. And Seymour. Though his character was s rip off of Kuja. But I won't hold that against him either as Sephiroth was just a rip off of combining Kefka's insanity and state of mind with the posture (both looks and arrogance) of Chrono Trigger's Magus. They even copy their own characters.lol. Wow, I'm impressed, you made SENSE of FFT's storyline. Worst localization job I've ever seen in a video game. And that's including a FF5 fan English translation I played years ago before 7 was released (long story). Don't get me wrong I loved FFT's, but that localization job. WHO AT SE was responsible? It more than made up for it though with its gameplay. And remains one of the sole FF's that contain something called DIFFICULTY. The hard ones are the early ones up to 4. From 5 on they are a breeze. 12 seems to be harder so far. No I haven't finished it yet. So I don't have a full opinion of it yet.

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Seymour was written into X cause they needed a chatty villain. I never saw his point and I feel he's a waste of space in the game. Sin was more than enough as a villain.

Tactics is my favorite FF, and yes I agree it had a horrible translation and localization... sheesh but then again alot of games in 97-98 were like that. I love its story and cast of characters. It also has the best version of the Job class system in the series... I'm actually playing through War of the Lions and the new translation alone has me justifying picking up my own PSP for this game...

XII is more difficult than people give it credit for but it has its broken elements. Its optional missions can get pretty damn difficult, but big game like Yiazmat and Omega mark XII are more about patience than skill I'm afraid. But most of the mark hunts are pretty challenging and even the main story likes to throw a few nasty bosses at you from time to time.

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I knew what she was doing right when the screen jumped to the bottom of the mountain. Then the words of that bird confirmed it. Yep she's gonna try to kill herself. Since the game already killed this installment's character, I knew she wasn't going to die. Then I guessed she'd get some type of message from Locke. And sure enough she got his bandanna. No I'm not bashing 6. That was my favorite game until I got into X. I just don't see where you think that Celes was a strong character. She had to have her ass saved one too many times for that, I'd say. Cyan was the one that blew me away. Got to feel for the guy. Loosing a family... That could do a lot to a person.

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Part of my reasoning might come from the fact I feel the GBA translation portrayed her more strongly. Perhaps a better way of putting it, is that she tries to be strong. The suicide scene was just her finally giving up pretending. Then again it all comes down to personal taste and interpretation ;)

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I've already told others, don't quote or mention Cloud. He was a sissy emo punk tart with self esteem issues. Luckily RedXIII, Barrett, and Cid were there to make up for it and save the game. Squall was nothing more than the loner, that's in every damn story/novel/myth/legend. I agree on Kain and Vivi though. But I think Wakka went on like nothing happened for a reason. Wouldn't you. You just find out what you've known your whole life is false. What would you do? So he turns to the one thing he does know he still has left, his duties and his friends. Those he knows will always be real.

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I can understand your feeling about Cloud, I only mentioned him cause I do feel he's a complex character, though I don't necessarilly feel he's a likable one. Squall has a personal place for me in my heart so I will agree to disagree. Glad we can agree on Vivi and Kain though. Everyone deals with problems differently. I just felt that for a game that seemed to be all about high melodrama; Wakka got out of his personal issue too easily. He whines about it and then just accepts. It just seemed like a cop out to me. Like Quistis giving up on pursuing Squall, or Barrett's epiphany, Cecil gaining Rydia's trust, or the entire plot of KH2. I do feel Wakka is one of the better written characters in X. I just feel for the amount of time spent making a big deal about his faith, he quickly got over it too fast.

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I think that was more to add to the non-existent difficulty factor in the game rather than realism. If you had the option to switched out the dead ones, you'd never have to reset the game in X. XII is considerably more challenging (so far as I can tell anyway) so it's kind of needed there.

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Oh god, tell me about the difficulty issues in X. I know difficulty has been going down in SE games since VI but damn... I was replaying through the game and never realized how many boss fights the game practically hands you. Not to mention the random encounters are a joke.

Final Fantasy VII. Always loved it the most, and always will :)

Clearly the correct answer is FF6.

Tie between X and VIII for me. Such a hard decision though.

Final Fantasy 12 surpassed all my expectations and still does.

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Originally Posted by Comet

FF6 - Seifer? Really? Have you actually played any of these games? Do you even know how to spell sorceress? Does your tiny average sized brain even understand how even mispelling a name disrespects the whole of Square-Enix?

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Please do not criticise my spelling, it isn't very becoming of you and it belittles yourself to pick at small matters. Yes, I have played the games; considering that I am one of the newer generation of FF fans, (I only found out about it in 2002) I own, and have played all Final Fantasies save for III Origional, VI - as I havent been able to find it (I don't use Ebay for buying games) and XI as I do not have the time for online games. I realize now that for FF VI it was Setzer, not Seifer and I would thank you, Comet;2425770, not to call my brain 'avarage sized' unless you personally knew me offline.

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Originally Posted by Wuggly Blight

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Originally Posted by Vivisteiner

@Toad626: I find it funny that you criticise FFVII for its character developement after having applauded FFX for the best character developement in the series.

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Yeah that is ironic as X has NO character development at all, or pacing, the only attempt was a very bad stitch in scene with Lulu and Waka mid game.

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Which one was that? :choc2: The only one that i can think of was at the begining of the game! Wakka and Lulu always remind me of an old married couple:D (Although the techinically are in X-2, save the old part.:p )

XII, though X comes a close second. I always felt that in most FFs, the bad guy was too blatantly obvious, I mean, come on, yes Vayne was implyed many times during the story as the villain, but i always got the nagging feeling that he wasn't. But in a way, he wasn't exactly "Evil" he had the right idea, making the world peaceful and freeing peoples destiny, just using the wrong methods.

I also thought that the politcal side to it, although some may is tedious, really gives some depth to the troubles that the actual nations feel, instead of just the heroes point of view. The inner plots of assination, controlling and power gave a subtle hint to the world we live in now.

The characters, although not one being the main, are well thought out, if a bit too thought out. it sometimes feels as though they stick too closely to their characters, however this does not stop the development being noticable. I have only one complaint in that Penelo is completely overlooked through the whole story.

FFVI plz.

:bigsmile: FFX. Because I'm a lazy bugger, I'll merely say that I agree with everything toad626 said.

I was a shameless FFVII fangirl for several years and I was a bit hesitant when I began playing FFX, but it blew me away and I can't say I regret playing it :D
So one could say FFX taught me to be more open-minded. Or one could alternatively say that I'm talking a load of bullsmurf.

FFVI has some truly beautiful scenes story-wise but it's been so long since I played the game and I never I actually completed it - only watched the ending on the internet. But I do love it.

...my post went a bit off-track, but oh well.

I agree FF10 is a good game i liked it but its still not better then 7 because i don't like some of the charecters they seemed a littel crybaby like to me more over Tidus was the bigest crybaby of all Plus I liked the darker urban dingy look to 7 but thats just me

VI! I especially love all the characters that you can use, and I never really "hated" any of them *coughRinoacough* Plus, opera scene for the win!

Why isn't Mystic Quest ever on these polls?

FF7, no matter what people say! When the other games were all :skull::skull::skull::skull:yy and with boring stories, FF7 popped-up and revelutionized the games :D Honestly no FF is good before ff7, ff7 is just perfect! Everything is perfect, MP system, the battles, the music, the story, the events :D

FFIV, but i'm surprised FFV hasn't gotten any love in this poll.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

My favourite is FFIX. :)

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i chose vii, because of crisis core.

Whoa, I thought I posted in here, at least briefly. I didn't see myself, though. :P

First off, I'd just like to say that this thread has been, for the most part, a very enjoyable read. I've really been loving the discussion between toad and Wolf.

As for me, I cast my vote for FFXII as my absolute favourite in the series, although Matsuno's Tactics is absolutely sublime and always deserves mention. I've always been a big fan of Yasumi Matsuno and Akihiko Yoshida's distinctly baroque edge, and it really works when applied to various FF elements. I enjoyed immensely their more mature, subtle, politically-driven storylines, their incredible worlds, and most of all, the play mechanics. All I really need offer is this: my current hour count in XII is over 380 hours, and I still have a solid amount of things left that I need to do. It took me nearly an entire year of fairly consistent play (and ignoring all other games save Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) to finally finish the core storyline, and I've been taking a bit of a break ever since. Soon, however, I want to dive back in and finish up with getting 100% completion.

As far as non-Matsuno FF titles are concerned, Final Fantasy IX is just about perfect, combining the best elements of every single main entry that came before it. Of special note is the game's wonderful art/world design. The game has a wonderfully whimsical, autumn-like vibe to it, but at the same time it has this strong, dark undercurrent running through it all. The overall effect is one that oftentimes gets me nostalgic for halloween. This unique combination of darkness and whimsy really gives the game a strong personality, and the characters in the game are incredible. Others have said it better than me, particularly in the lovely "IX vs VII and VIII" thread.

EDIT: It has to be said: Kuja is the greatest antagonist in the entire damn series. If it weren't for Vagrant Story's Sydney Lostarrot, Kuja would have taken the cake for my favourite antagonist of the entire 32/64-bit generation, even besting Panzer Dragoon Saga's Craymen and the many wonderful antagonists of games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, and Suikoden II.

I also wanted to mention that, on the whole, there really aren't many FF titles that I don't like. I very much enjoyed both FFVIII and FFX. I think both have very unique play elements and leveling systems, and I really enjoyed the story and general worlds of both. VIII, in particular, is one of the very few games of the era in which I felt like the CG was kind of necessary, as opposed to being almost completely superfluous like in many games of even the previous, 128-bit generation. My only real issue with VIII is that the only character I really loved was Squall (well, and Laguna, but I'm trying to speak primarily of the main cast here). I thought he was an amazingly written character, and I really enjoyed the view we got into his deepest, even most random thoughts. I understand that this is an issue with which many take offense. I feel that if we knew every thought that other, more well-loved characters had, they'd be pretty commonly hated as well. I think it was a rather unique narrative device and that it, alongside the fact that I still found the rest of the primary cast to be highly likable, allows me to forgive its flaws. Overall, depending upon the size of a favourite games of all time list, VIII would most likely work its way in there somewhere.

As for X, that game is a bit iffy for me. To be blunt, I am absolutely unable to judge the game with a clear head, which makes me somewhat uncomfortable talking about it. Basically, I played it when I was decently young and not yet mature. The problem lies with the fact that this is the ONLY time in which I have experienced it. For example, I played VIII and IX when I wasn't yet very mature, but I have since re-experienced them and can still appreciate them; in other words, I can fully confirm that they have aged phenomenally well. This is something I may never be able to confirm with FFX. I am literally incapable of replaying it. Back when it first came out, it was all I played for about a year or so. o.O I had played it and replayed it so many times that when I load it up now, I'm just disgusted with it. I can't stand to play it and thus, I cannot tell whether or not my memories of it are accurate or misguided. A big part of a game's appeal, to me, is how well it has aged. This is the reason why, under usual circumstances, I require a game to age at least seven years (preferably a full decade) before allowing it to hold a spot in my favourites list. It has to prove that it can still provide an awesome experience, years after its release. In rare exceptions, I allow younger games in (Beyond Good & Evil, Shadow of the Colossus, Final Fantasy XII), but they have to really, really floor me. I have to be just disturbingly enraptured by them to allow a game of such a young age into my list.

And that's the problem with FFX: I can't accurately judge it. Because I cannot stand to play it anymore, one might say that it hasn't aged well and that I shouldn't allow it, but I haven't given it a full replay to see if that is not the case. At the same time, on paper the idea of replaying a game so many times you get sick of it sounds wonderful. But again, it prevents me from being an accurate judge of the game's overall quality. So FFX is certainly not on my list, but at the same time it's probably about the only game I'm undecided on. Essentially, it's in a type of limbo. :/

I also wanted to mention FFVII. This is a game that I feel is above average, and has moments of brilliance, but it gets bogged down in various flaws. I don't love it, I don't hate it, I just like it. It's not enough for me to consider it a favourite, but I have always enjoyed myself with it and I appreciate the fact that it opened the floodgates for RPGs outside of Japan. One thing I do like to note about the game, however, is that for all of its storytelling faults I rather appreciate the fact that it is one of precious few examples of the "unreliable narrator" device in gaming. The fact that Cloud is not what he claims to be, and that much of the player's perspective for the better part of the experience ends up being something of a lie, is quite fascinating. That game actually does need a more current replay out of me before I really say anything more, however.

Also, I just wanted to do a little confession: I have not yet completed FFVI, after all these years. I missed out on it during the 16-bit generation, the PS1 port is too load-time heavy to bother with, and I don't have a GBA or NDS. Before anyone mentions, I DO plan to rectify this by ordering an SNES copy at some point in the near future. My only major experience with FFVI was with an emulation of the GBA version: I enjoyed it immensely, and it felt like it could really hold its own against the greats of the era that I loved, like Chrono Trigger and both Lunar games. However, that was my first and only experience with emulation, as I ended up feeling quite guilty about the methods I was using to experience it, and ended up deleting it all off of my computer. So there. *breathes deeply*

^It's cool to see XII get some love because it is underappreciated and a little misunderstood.

What I would like to know is why XI is not listed on here. Yes, it is an online game and this probably wouldn't get any votes, but it's still part of the numbered series nonetheless. If SE wanted this to be a separate game, they simply would've just called it "Final Fantasy Online". But anyways, I vote for VI, because it has great story and memorable characters

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Originally Posted by leilei

FFIV, but i'm surprised FFV hasn't gotten any love in this poll.

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That surprises me too. Where's the love?

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Originally Posted by Alucard von Elru

As for me, I cast my vote for FFXII as my absolute favourite in the series, although Matsuno's Tactics is absolutely sublime and always deserves mention. I've always been a big fan of Yasumi Matsuno and Akihiko Yoshida's distinctly baroque edge, and it really works when applied to various FF elements. I enjoyed immensely their more mature, subtle, politically-driven storylines, their incredible worlds, and most of all, the play mechanics. All I really need offer is this: my current hour count in XII is over 380 hours, and I still have a solid amount of things left that I need to do. It took me nearly an entire year of fairly consistent play (and ignoring all other games save Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria) to finally finish the core storyline, and I've been taking a bit of a break ever since. Soon, however, I want to dive back in and finish up with getting 100% completion.

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I agree, XII is a remarkable game and I've always felt it gets discriminated for rather shallow reasons. Matsuno's works have all been personal favorites of mine in the SE library. FFT, FFTA, Vagrant Story, and FFXII are all beautiful and darkly mature games. His team has transformed Ivalice from a little world based on the mythos of the FF franchise into a beautiful standalone world that is deeper and more wonderful than most game worlds out there. I'm replaying through the FFs right now (up to VII) and so far, XII is the one I look forward to the most.

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As far as non-Matsuno FF titles are concerned, Final Fantasy IX is just about perfect, combining the best elements of every single main entry that came before it. Of special note is the game's wonderful art/world design. The game has a wonderfully whimsical, autumn-like vibe to it, but at the same time it has this strong, dark undercurrent running through it all. The overall effect is one that oftentimes gets me nostalgic for halloween. This unique combination of darkness and whimsy really gives the game a strong personality, and the characters in the game are incredible. Others have said it better than me, particularly in the lovely "IX vs VII and VIII" thread.

EDIT: It has to be said: Kuja is the greatest antagonist in the entire damn series. If it weren't for Vagrant Story's Sydney Lostarrot, Kuja would have taken the cake for my favourite antagonist of the entire 32/64-bit generation, even besting Panzer Dragoon Saga's Craymen and the many wonderful antagonists of games like Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, and Suikoden II.

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Kuja is definetly an awsome villain and its a shame many people consider him nothing more than a knock-off of Kefka and Sephiroth. Though I disagree, cause I feel Sydney is easily the best antagonist in gaming history. God I love VS...

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And that's the problem with FFX: I can't accurately judge it. Because I cannot stand to play it anymore, one might say that it hasn't aged well and that I shouldn't allow it, but I haven't given it a full replay to see if that is not the case. At the same time, on paper the idea of replaying a game so many times you get sick of it sounds wonderful. But again, it prevents me from being an accurate judge of the game's overall quality. So FFX is certainly not on my list, but at the same time it's probably about the only game I'm undecided on. Essentially, it's in a type of limbo. :/

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It funny what time does to things. I'm playing through VII right now, and despite its shoddy localization and archaic graphics, I feel the story and gameplay are still quite strong. I feel most FFs have aged well even games I never thought would (FFI and FFIV). Playing through the game after experiencing XII was an eye opener though... I never noticed how laughable the character movements were in cutscenes. Though some of the VA is still top-notch (except Yuna and Seymore IMHO). I remember having issues with Zelda: OoT cause despite what most people feel, that game has not aged well at all... maybe its music. Maybe its cause I noticed that most of OoT best puzzles and dungeon designs were taken straight out of A Link to the Past (a game I consider far superior to OoT) but who knows. Lord knows, Zelda fans don't like me...

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I also wanted to mention FFVII. This is a game that I feel is above average, and has moments of brilliance, but it gets bogged down in various flaws. I don't love it, I don't hate it, I just like it. It's not enough for me to consider it a favourite, but I have always enjoyed myself with it and I appreciate the fact that it opened the floodgates for RPGs outside of Japan. One thing I do like to note about the game, however, is that for all of its storytelling faults I rather appreciate the fact that it is one of precious few examples of the "unreliable narrator" device in gaming. The fact that Cloud is not what he claims to be, and that much of the player's perspective for the better part of the experience ends up being something of a lie, is quite fascinating. That game actually does need a more current replay out of me before I really say anything more, however.

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I completely agree and this is the closest to my true sentiments about the game that I've heard. I also enjoy the Cloud identity plot twist cause it was quite bold of Square to do that. :cool:

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Also, I just wanted to do a little confession: I have not yet completed FFVI, after all these years. I missed out on it during the 16-bit generation, the PS1 port is too load-time heavy to bother with, and I don't have a GBA or NDS. Before anyone mentions, I DO plan to rectify this by ordering an SNES copy at some point in the near future. My only major experience with FFVI was with an emulation of the GBA version: I enjoyed it immensely, and it felt like it could really hold its own against the greats of the era that I loved, like Chrono Trigger and both Lunar games. However, that was my first and only experience with emulation, as I ended up feeling quite guilty about the methods I was using to experience it, and ended up deleting it all off of my computer. So there. *breathes deeply*

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Its a shame you won't be playing the superior GBA version. The GBA has a wonderful localization that brought a wealth of depth to the games story (I consider VI to be the best written FF after playing the GBA version) To be honest, since the GBA version, I can't even bring myself to play the old translation anymore. It feels so childish why the new one was mature. Sorry if I'm making you regret your decision, its a fine game either way and despite my sentiments, the original script is good its just that I prefer the new one. The gameplay is still the same though and its a damn fine game so I hope you enjoy it.;)

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

^It's cool to see XII get some love because it is underappreciated and a little misunderstood.

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Tell me about it. XII was a game I feel the FF series really needed. I only hope that XIII takes note of XII's awesome world design. I want a fully rotatable camera in dungeons and cities.

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Originally Posted by Crossblades

What I would like to know is why XI is not listed on here. Yes, it is an online game and this probably wouldn't get any votes, but it's still part of the numbered series nonetheless. If SE wanted this to be a separate game, they simply would've just called it "Final Fantasy Online". But anyways, I vote for VI, because it has great story and memorable characters

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I think its a shame for it to be missing as well. Though I've only played a little, I've been quite impresses so far and despite being the most outrageous entry in the series, I do feel its quite deserving of the numbered moniker.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I want a fully rotatable camera in dungeons and cities.

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I think the camera is better utilized as an additional storytelling tool. These are RPGs, after all.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Kuja is definetly an awsome villain and its a shame many people consider him nothing more than a knock-off of Kefka and Sephiroth. Though I disagree, cause I feel Sydney is easily the best antagonist in gaming history. God I love VS...

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I think you may have misunderstood, or perhaps I did not word myself correctly. :P Basically, what I wanted to say is: if Sydney didn't exist, Kuja would have been number one. Because Sydney does, Kuja is relegated to a solid second. ;)

Oh, and VS= my favourite game of all time. :love:

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Its a shame you won't be playing the superior GBA version. The GBA has a wonderful localization that brought a wealth of depth to the games story (I consider VI to be the best written FF after playing the GBA version) To be honest, since the GBA version, I can't even bring myself to play the old translation anymore. It feels so childish why the new one was mature. Sorry if I'm making you regret your decision, its a fine game either way and despite my sentiments, the original script is good its just that I prefer the new one. The gameplay is still the same though and its a damn fine game so I hope you enjoy it.;)

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The script is honestly that much of an improvement? I very much enjoyed the writing in the GBA version that I had emulated, but I obviously didn't have the original version as a point of comparison. I'm surprised, because from reviews I have read most simply say it's been polished up a bit, but I never got the impression that it's substantial. I assume it's not quite the gigantic leap that Final Fantasy Tactics ----> The War of the Lions was (that was just amazing)?

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I want a fully rotatable camera in dungeons and cities.

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I think the camera is better utilized as an additional storytelling tool. These are RPGs, after all.

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I feel the camera is better suited as a tool for gameplay. You can lose control of the camera in story sequences and combat, thats fine, but in dungeons and towns it can be better used for puzzles and exploration. Xenogears, Wild ARMS series, and the Breath of Fire series are nice examples of how a rotating camera should be used. ;)

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Originally Posted by Alucard von Elru

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Kuja is definetly an awsome villain and its a shame many people consider him nothing more than a knock-off of Kefka and Sephiroth. Though I disagree, cause I feel Sydney is easily the best antagonist in gaming history. God I love VS...

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I think you may have misunderstood, or perhaps I did not word myself correctly. :P Basically, what I wanted to say is: if Sydney didn't exist, Kuja would have been number one. Because Sydney does, Kuja is relegated to a solid second. ;)

Oh, and VS= my favourite game of all time. :love:

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Glad we cleared that up. Seriously, Vagrant Story doesn't get enough love. :love:

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The script is honestly that much of an improvement? I very much enjoyed the writing in the GBA version that I had emulated, but I obviously didn't have the original version as a point of comparison. I'm surprised, because from reviews I have read most simply say it's been polished up a bit, but I never got the impression that it's substantial. I assume it's not quite the gigantic leap that Final Fantasy Tactics ----> The War of the Lions was (that was just amazing)?

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I wouldn't say its as drastic as that (though the IV and V revamped scripts for GBA were that drastic). Don't get me wrong, the original script is quite good (and some like Avarice will tell you its superior), its just that you never realise its bad points until you play the GBA one. The GBA script really fleshes out the characters and makes almost the entire cast feel like real people. The story flows much better as well. The original script moves you along nicely but there are still times it feels scripted like its just moving you along to the next dungeon or story point. The GBA script flows better. Its basically just polished overall.

The characters are all given a better diversity with their dialogue which greatly affects their characterzation and the players immersion in the story. Even the extra's are better integrated into the story. The original script is charming and well done but the GBA is elegant and top-notch. Play the SNES version but if you ever get the chance, play the GBA and you will see what I mean ;)

I can't believe I'm the first to vote for FFV. Okay, yeah I can. It's one of the funniest, that just may be the Advance version.

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Originally Posted by Vermachtnis

I can't believe I'm the first to vote for FFV. Okay, yeah I can. It's one of the funniest, that just may be the Advance version.

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I think that it excels in gameplay and lacks in storyline. The gameplay system was handled excellently, but players went from controlling diverse parties with different personalities to controlling customizable parties with the same personalities. The number of playable characters went down from over ten to only five.

IX. In terms of the characters, I felt it was relatively balanced unlike VIII, for instance. I feel that the characters were all developed to at least a moderate extent throughout the story even if some were sadly neglected in the latter half of the game (e.g. Freya). The music is utterly divine, I love the use of harpsichords, organs and the like which isn't seen too often in computer games. The world was vibrant, interesting and fun to explore. While the card game was a let down, the chocobo mini-game and sidequest was the best in any Final Fantasy game. The story was interesting and flowed pretty fluently; it wasn't stop-start. Kuja is the only villain from the Sony era that I rate that highly.

In short, IX is brilliant.

Usually i have answered IX immediately but now for some reason i thought about X too.
But still i chose IX, it's a legend for me. I love everything about it, except the fact that after playing it through many times the story has become a little bit too simple since you basically remember everything that in the first times blew your mind away.

Oky well most of the characters in FF Games were overly emotional until 9, but in 9 it was some overly hormonal teenager, in ten it was some crying athlete missing his slaves, 10-2 made me want to drown kittens, XII I didn't play for that long because it BORED me so terribly!
Worst - 10-2/XII Purely because 10-2 sucked and XII was an offline version of XI imo.
7+9 Win it for me. <3 Those two but I admit I'm missing my FF9 atm so it's getting my vote.