Edge Magazine: 100 Greatest Games to Play Today

So I was checking out Edge Magazine last night and they were celebrating 200 issues.

Like all gaming magazines, this resulted in doing a top 100 titles and I found several of the choices to be "interesting". Now of course no one is going to agree completely on the choices made but I found the list amusing despite really hating #1 cause its an overrated and damn near unplayable by today's standards, at least imo.

The most amusing choice was that 3 FF titles that made it onto the list. Even more amusing was that VII was not the highest rated of the three.

What's your opinion EoFF as we pick this list apart. :p

Ocarina of Time damn near unplayable? Okay then ...

It's not a bad list, and it's nice to see some games that deserve to be on top 100's but usually aren't. Good to see Civilization IV up there.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Now of course no one is going to agree completely on the choices made but I found the list amusing despite really hating #1 cause its an overrated and damn near unplayable by today's standards, at least imo.

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All I have to say about the "Unplayable by today's standards":

Really?

On the List:

What I can say first off is that their top 10 sucks. 7 are Nintendo games (RE4 being a timed Nintendo exclusive), 3 of which are Mario and 1 is a Mario spinoff.

It's Nintendo Bias is quite frankly, unimaginative and shows a lack of reflection on their part.

2 of the other top 10 are ready to send me into a fit.

Halo 3: WTF.

HALO SUCKS!!! I used to say it was an average game, but the following from mindless, racist, homophobic xbox slaves, combined with the fact that 99.8% of shooters out there make it look like a pile of piss makes me infuriated. Halo 3 is a joke compared to every shooter that came after it. Much like XBox Live is praised by gamers inexperienced in the long history of online gaming, Halo is similarly worshiped by those who are ignorant of the major pillars of First Person Shooters

It's a sad day for gaming, hell it's been a sad couple years to see a company who doesn't give a crap about the quality of a game (microsoft) to be defended and praised by previously said legions.

Also, Half-Life 2. Half Life 2 is just as playable as the first round of Half Life games (all of which I loved and easily spent over a 100 hours playing between all of them), so there's no reason for it to be there.

There isn't a single Sony title up there, and that simply shows ignorance to me. You can say I'm a fanboy, I say I've been buying the consoles with the best games for over ten years and 3 generations now.

The rest of the list is oversaturated with trendy-nostalgism (makes me wonder if it's real) and Modern day XBox BS. Someone please explain to me how Gears of War 2 is anywhere on this list when it's multiplayer component has been one of the most well chronicled disasters of this generation?

I'm glad to see my personal favorites of MGS and Final Fantasies up there, but I think any self-respecting gamer should take issues with this. I think its sad when alot of these games get considered in 100 best when they're so mediocre.

Take it away, Wolf.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

HALO SUCKS!!! I used to say it was an average game, but the following from mindless, racist, homophobic xbox slaves, combined with the fact that 99.8% of shooters out there make it look like a pile of piss makes me infuriated. Halo 3 is a joke compared to every shooter that came after it. Much like XBox Live is praised by gamers inexperienced in the long history of online gaming, Halo is similarly worshiped by those who are ignorant of the major pillars of First Person Shooters

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Halo 3 is a fantastic game and the best FPS this generation has produced. The gameplay is top-notch and superbly paced, there are several maps with outstanding design, you can often play with 16 players lag-free (although there are lag problems every now and then, sure) there are several enjoyable and varied game modes, and the ability to make your own maps and take screenshots and videos and put them online is something that all console games should implement.

You can call me a mindless racist homophobe and inexperienced in games and a whole lot of other things if you want, though. I'll just feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy a game that has given me many hours of joy. :monster:

I think it's a pretty balanced list that caters to a lot of different interests. There seemed to be a pretty heavy slant towards the past two years, though, and makes me wonder if all of the recent games are really just that amazing or if they haven't had time to let their New Game Smell fade away.

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

HALO SUCKS!!! I used to say it was an average game, but the following from mindless, racist, homophobic xbox slaves, combined with the fact that 99.8% of shooters out there make it look like a pile of piss makes me infuriated. Halo 3 is a joke compared to every shooter that came after it. Much like XBox Live is praised by gamers inexperienced in the long history of online gaming, Halo is similarly worshiped by those who are ignorant of the major pillars of First Person Shooters

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Halo 3 is a fantastic game and the best FPS this generation has produced. The gameplay is top-notch and superbly paced, there are several maps with outstanding design, you can often play with 16 players lag-free (although there are lag problems every now and then, sure) there are several enjoyable and varied game modes, and the ability to make your own maps and take screenshots and videos and put them online is something that all console games should implement.

You can call me a mindless racist homophobe and inexperienced in games and a whole lot of other things if you want, though. I'll just feel sorry for you that you can't enjoy a game that has given me many hours of joy. :monster:

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NO! The best FPS this generation has produced!?

1) The gameplay sucks - the handling of the weapons is unsatisfying, the shield mechanic is insulting, it makes it not even a shooter - it's a grenade/melee game, some kinda freaky-deaky medieval thing when you think about it! Look at the shooting in Fear2 - the way your bullets rip through your opponents, it's immensely better than HALO3, and that was a sleeper title. Plus Auto-Aim = A complete joke to every self-respecting FPS devotee.

2) 16 Player MP without lag!? Is this the kool-aid they're providing you guys on XBox Live to convince you it's worth your money!?

RESISTANCE 2 HAS 60 PLAYER ONLINE COMPETITIVE WITH A SERVER STRUCTURE THAT MAKES IT IMPOSSIBLE TO LAG!!!

16 player with no lag is no triumph at all, welcome to 6 years ago!!!

3) You cannot make your own maps in Halo 3, you can edit spawning locations of items. That's a joke. You can't even have mods on any 360 game, let alone Halo 3, so don't tell me about creative customizing tools like that.

You could list in-game screenshots and videos until the cows come home, NONE OF THAT has anything to do with its fundamentals as a game, it doesn't change the fact that the game is vastly inferior as a shooter compared to FarCry2, Killzone2, Resistance2, Fear2, Call of Duty 4 & 5, Unreal Tournament III, hell even 007 Quantum of Solace is better than Halo 3.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

NO! The best FPS this generation has produced!?

1) The gameplay sucks - the handling of the weapons is unsatisfying, the shield mechanic is insulting, it makes it not even a shooter - it's a grenade/melee game, some kinda freaky-deaky medieval thing when you think about it! Look at the shooting in Fear2 - the way your bullets rip through your opponents, it's immensely better than HALO3, and that was a sleeper title. Plus Auto-Aim = A complete joke to every self-respecting FPS devotee.

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If you think Halo 3 is about grenading and meleeing, and nothing else, then I have my doubts that you've actually played it. The kills I get from those two methods are minimal. The weapons handle perfectly well for me, and I enjoy the shield mechanic.

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2) 16 Player MP without lag!? Is this the kool-aid they're providing you guys on XBox Live to convince you it's worth your money!?

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This is a great burn good job.

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16 player with no lag is no triumph at all, welcome to 6 years ago!!!

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On a console game, yeah, it is something impressive. There are a lot of games out there that struggle to do 2 player co-op without lag.

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3) You cannot make your own maps in Halo 3, you can edit spawning locations of items.

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Nah. There are actually maps where you can build the entire level. Look up "Sandbox" or "Foundry" sometime. Again, I'm going to express my doubts you've played the game.

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You could list in-game screenshots and videos until the cows come home, NONE OF THAT has anything to do with its fundamentals as a game

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To a game is made better by having those features. But you think it has nothing to do with its fundamentals as a game? Well, okay, but you know what has even less to do with it? The fans.

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I used to say it was an average game, but the following from mindless, racist, homophobic xbox slaves, combined with the fact that 99.8% of shooters out there make it look like a pile of piss makes me infuriated.

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:greenie:

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it doesn't change the fact that the game is vastly inferior as a shooter compared to FarCry2, Killzone2, Resistance2, Fear2, Call of Duty 4 & 5, Unreal Tournament III, hell even 007 Quantum of Solace is better than Halo 3.

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I disagree.

God I love these lists.

Easy there Bolivar. You can call out Halo 3 for a lot of things but I think its gameplay is as solid as a FPS can get. One thing people don't realise though is that the gameplay in a FPS doesn't mean much anymore because they have all played exactly like Halo since 2001. Its what you build around that gameplay that makes the game.

And thats where Halo 3 falls short. Very uninspired levels, short single play campaign, lame character desgns and a story which is made a whole lot of fuss over yet doesn't deliver anything we haven't seen before. But because the gameplay is so solid the multiplayer works very well and I can see why it ranks at number 9 on that list considering so many people still play the game today.

As for the list as a whole, I was pleasantly surprised, with most of my all time favourite games being mentioned (and good on them for putting FFXII so high, that game is so underrated). Unfortunately they had to completely drop the ball for their number 1 pick. I have nothing to say other than I was very bored to see Ocarina of Time being at number 1. Just so........uneventful.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

countless lines of inane pap

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Basically, the fact that you ranted on for god knows how long about the failings of xbox fanboys and then basically admitted that you yourself are nothing but a sony fanboy means every word you've posted so far has entirely no meaning because, as you yourself readily admitted, it's all a load of sony-biased failhaggery. I've got less faith in your judgement of these games than that of the Bastard Gamer, someone who thinks the Grand Theft Auto games have bad controls because he can't wrap his head around the concept of holding R2 to lock on to someone and pressing O to shoot at the same time. If you're going to try and actually convince anyone of anything you're going to have to do it objectively.

cockzone 2 is a game for the gaystation triple, which means its three times as gay. people say the graphics are good, but i think they suck and and really aren't even very good at all\

gears of war is the best looking game out there except for halo, so don't even talk to me about this kind of crap for any reason.
before you call me a fanboy, I own all three systems, so don't call me a fanboy. but if you own a playstation for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.

FINISH THE FIGHT - KILL THE PS3

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Originally Posted by DK

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

countless lines of inane pap

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Basically, the fact that you ranted on for god knows how long about the failings of xbox fanboys and then basically admitted that you yourself are nothing but a sony fanboy means every word you've posted so far has entirely no meaning because, as you yourself readily admitted, it's all a load of sony-biased failhaggery. I've got less faith in your judgement of these games than that of the Bastard Gamer, someone who thinks the Grand Theft Auto games have bad controls because he can't wrap his head around the concept of holding R2 to lock on to someone and pressing O to shoot at the same time. If you're going to try and actually convince anyone of anything you're going to have to do it objectively.

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Actually, it's a logical fallacy to disregard what someone says based on anything they've self admitted, it's called Circumstantial Ad Hominem. And I think if you read on in my reply to Psy, you'll see that I did list reasons why I feel so. Actually, there's implicit premises in my original post, dealing with "the pillars of FPS" and how that comparison bears upon Halo 3.

Also, I think you missed the point that 7 out of 10 are Nintendo games, 3 of which are Mario, 1 other being a Mario spinoff. That's essentially 4 games from the same franchise.

Also, you don't think that some Sony games deserve to be there than rotating entries from the same franchise? MGS, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, Final Fantasy?

I think anyone on this forum, whether you like VII & X, or Tactics & XII, or even an old school fan who likes Final Fantasy IX, would be open to the idea of one of the Sony FF's for being in there. I'm stating that primarily as a gamer who has experienced these titles, and see a top 10 list being filled with some entries who share essentially the same gameplay.

I don't really understand where you're coming from with this Circumstantial Ad Hominem because I was never trying to assert that your claims were wrong or right in the first place, or that you're doing it out of self interest, merely that it is pointless to listen to you because you're admittedly biased.

edit: it also seems to me you're completely ignoring the fact that it's not a "100 greatest games ever" but some weird shiet "top 100 games we'd like to play right now" list. And seeing that as recently as April 13th Halo 3 was the most played game on XBL according to the weekly ratings, despite being one of the oldest games on the console, it'd seem a vast majority of people are thinking the exact same thing. So I can't exactly see why it doesn't deserve it's place in this specific list. People like to play it. That's all this is about.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Also, you don't think that some Sony games deserve to be there than rotating entries from the same franchise? MGS, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, God of War, Final Fantasy?

I think anyone on this forum, whether you like VII & X, or Tactics & XII, or even an old school fan who likes Final Fantasy IX, would be open to the idea of one of the Sony FF's for being in there. I'm stating that primarily as a gamer who has experienced these titles, and see a top 10 list being filled with some entries who share essentially the same gameplay.

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I dont quite understand what your saying here. There are plenty of Sony titles in that list. And both FFVII and FFXII are in there too, both of which are excusive to Sony systems. If your trying to point out bias then I think you have picked the wrong list. Even if Edge did give Killzone 2 a 7.....

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Originally Posted by DK

I don't really understand where you're coming from with this Circumstantial Ad Hominem because I was never trying to assert that your claims were wrong or right in the first place, or that you're doing it out of self interest, merely that it is pointless to listen to you because you're admittedly biased.

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What it means is that just because someone is biased doesn't necessarily mean that there's no merit to what they're saying, this runs parallel to you placing value in what i said, and whether my claims back up my conclusion, the foundation of argument.

What I said was that I'm not biased; I have reasons for liking or disliking a game, which I readily listed. Actually, it seems to me you missed the entire point of that sentence, saw the word "fanboy" and ran.

Do you have anything to contribute about any of the points I, or Dreddz made? If anything, you're actually kind of derailing the discussion here.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

I dont quite understand what your saying here. There are plenty of Sony titles in that list. And both FFVII and FFXII are in there too, both of which are excusive to Sony systems. If your trying to point out bias then I think you have picked the wrong list. Even if Edge did give Killzone 2 a 7.....

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Again, I was talking about the top 10. It just doesn't make sense to me to have 4 Mario games and 2 Zelda games in there when I'd put some of the Metal Gears and Final Fantasies up with those games anyday.

Like I said, it doesn't make sense to rotate entries of the same franchises and call it a top 10 of games to play today. I just personally disagree with it.

edit: it seems some of the comments are pointing out that there's 5 Zeldas and 6 Marios, and some consoles like the Genesis/Megadrive are underrepresented. I think the claim is justified.

..Did anybody else notice they compared the graphics of Ocarina of Time (1998) to Far Cry 2 (2008) and Assassin's Creed (2007)?

Wow. This is why stupid people shouldn't be able to publish in the media.

Oh you guys.

Ocarina of Time as #1 was a pretty boring choice, and it was a bit weird to see so many old games on a best games to play today list. It makes it seem more like a best game ever list.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

What it means is that just because someone is biased doesn't necessarily mean that there's no merit to what they're saying, this runs parallel to you placing value in what i said, and whether my claims back up my conclusion, the foundation of argument.

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What it means is that it's a logical fallacy to disregard the truth of someones claims if they are biased or saying something out of self interest. It's explained pretty well here. But I wasn't disregarding the truth of your claims, merely saying it's a pointless exercise to sift through the mounds of clouded-by-hatred-for microsoft-judgment to sort out the bits that are actually worth reading from the pap.

This is all besides the point anyway, because I've played plenty of Halo 3 and I already know that you're mostly talking out of your arse. The only remotely good point you've raised so far about Halo is about the auto-aim. "all about grenade and meleeing" hhahahahahah

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Do you have anything to contribute about any of the points I, or Dreddz made?

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Yeah you listed a whole bunch of games supposedly better than Halo 3, whilst only mentioning one which might actually qualify (CoD4). If you're going to claim that there's something wrong with Halo you might want to actually come back with some great FPS games like Half-Life 2 or Team Fortress 2 or Deus Ex, instead of fanboy bollockery like Resistance 2 and Quantum of God Damn Solace.

If you're going to say that Halo fans are ignorant of FPS heritage and history you should probably not do it at someone who has been playing the genre for as long as I have. Can you tell me why Geo-Mod never took off? Can you write a paper about the implications and validity of JFK Reloaded? Can you fire off FOUR cerebral bores before the first one hits and makes targeting that bad guy impossible? I doubt it, given that you mentioned a bunch of games which are exactly what you claim Halo 3 is, and aside from CoD, didn't mention anything that's actually worth remembering after you finish playing it.

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Originally Posted by DK

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

What it means is that just because someone is biased doesn't necessarily mean that there's no merit to what they're saying, this runs parallel to you placing value in what i said, and whether my claims back up my conclusion, the foundation of argument.

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What it means is that it's a logical fallacy to disregard the truth of someones claims if they are biased or saying something out of self interest. It's explained pretty well here. But I wasn't disregarding the truth of your claims, merely saying it's a pointless exercise to sift through the mounds of clouded-by-hatred-for microsoft-judgment to sort out the bits that are actually worth reading from the pap.

This is all besides the point anyway, because I've played plenty of Halo 3 and I already know that you're mostly talking out of your arse. The only remotely good point you've raised so far about Halo is about the auto-aim. "all about grenade and meleeing" hhahahahahah

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Sorry, but I felt it was reasonable to take my reasoning "having entirely no meaning" and you having "little faith" in my "reasoning" as being analogous to disregarding the truth-value of my statements. If you feel that's a reach, then I apologize.

It doesn't change the fact that you completely misinterpreted one of my statements to get to that part.

On topic:
Everyone I know who is a top player at Halo mixes in strategies of resource-domination tied in with grenade and melee combinations for specific encounters. I understand if that's not what you guys do, but like I said, the best players I know all use that as their strategy. From my own experience, shooting actually seems comparatively ineffective.

Battle rifle.

I don't know who you play with but none of them can be very good at Halo. Melee encounters were never a good idea thanks to the shiet timing system that meant there was no guarantee you would win an encounter even if you hit first and had more health. Now they've tweaked it, and going in for a melee attack will more often than not result in you dying along with your opponent in a "Double KO". Meleeing works up to about rank 5 in Lone wolves and beyond that you will get beaten badly. Going into even a lone wolves game with rank 30 people and trying to melee your way through it will end up with you getting severely raped. Going into any of the top rated players on the bungie stats pages and their number one weapon will be the Battle Rifle by a massive distance, followed by the sniper rifle most likely. Also, I am pretty sure 95% of the halo community consider people who abuse melee attacks to be nothing but nubs, and as such most people seem to specifically distance themselves from using it. As stupid as this practice is, it occurs and is a pretty large theme throughout the halo community. I really don't know where you get the idea this is a prevalant tactic in halo from.

Also, grenades have almost no effect on halo. The only maps where Grenades have any real say in the matters are Construct and Valhalla. Construct is the only map where grenades play a large part in your offense. Valhalla is only useful because 70% of halo players are too stupid to realise that jumping off a giant launcher that drops you in the same place over and over again without being able to change course means that you're easy targets for grenades. Apart from that, it's almost impossible to get killed by frag grenades because to catch someone around a corner you need ridiculous timing and good placement, because unless you get them as they are stepping around all you have to do is walk backwards and that's the end of that. Using grenades in any sort of one on one situation is only viable when they can't see you, because if they can you're asking to die. I absolutely adore people who love using grenades on halo. Throwing a grenade essentially gives you two seconds where your character can't do anything. Two BR shots on that unable to react character and you've won, every time. Stick grenades are useful weapons for combatting vehicles and if you get yourself stuck then you're either moving like an idiot, or the person who stuck you threw well and you have to take your hat off to them.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Battle rifle.

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Originally Posted by DK

I don't know who you play with but none of them can be very good at Halo.

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Yes and yes.

Do you know who MLG are, Bolivar? They're professional gamers. They're also tits of the highest order, but they are extremely good at what they do. They never, ever do what you just described. They shoot, and believe you me, it is damn effective. As for grenades, they're a defensive weapon. You use them if being chased with low health to buy you time to flee. Using them as an offensive weapon is just going to get you shot.

Thanks, DK, for providing some insight on the discussion, that's all very interesting. And I have to admit that the last time I played the game myself was many months ago before the mechanics tweaking you talked about.

But I decided to go to the bungie.net site and look at the MVP's for games going on right now. It seems like a lot of them have Melee as either their top 1 or 2 weapon.

Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats
Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats
Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats
Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats
Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats
Bungie.net : Halo 3 Career Stats


Granted, I definitely saw a lot of players with stats like you guys mentioned, Battle & Sniper rifles at top, and these listed players aren't the cream of the crop. You should keep in mind that I saw this as a prevalent tactic when I played, and it seems like alot of players utilize it now. I'm not suggesting it's the only way that's played, or the best, but its prevalence and, from what it looks like, effectiveness turns me off as an FPS fan.

Maybe I'm using these wrong, but Halo's shortcomings as an FPS aren't limited to their grenade and melee mechanics. The gun handling, aiming, and shooting effects are all inferior to the list of games from the last 2 year I mentioned in one of my previous posts. I also agree with Dreddz that the level design, campaigns, story and characters range from uninspired to annoying.

http://yourargumentisinvalid.com/wp-...rd-257x300.jpg

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Originally Posted by Psychotic

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Battle rifle.

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Originally Posted by DK

I don't know who you play with but none of them can be very good at Halo.

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Yes and yes.

Do you know who MLG are, Bolivar? They're professional gamers. They're also tits of the highest order, but they are extremely good at what they do. They never, ever do what you just described. They shoot, and believe you me, it is damn effective. As for grenades, they're a defensive weapon. You use them if being chased with low health to buy you time to flee. Using them as an offensive weapon is just going to get you shot.

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You've never talked to an 'MLG' person on the Bungie forums, have you?

Generally, the BR is all they're good at because they refuse to use any other weapons because doing so is 'noobish'. Stupid bull:bou::bou::bou::bou: if you ask me. That being said, they're ridiculously good with the BR.

And yes, grenades are defensive but effective. Take Orbital or Narrows, for example. That place is a freaking grenadefest, and if you can dodge them all, then you sir are a better player than I.

As for Halo 3 being called the best FPS of this generation, I'll have to reluctantly agree. I enjoy the CoD system of online ranking more, but like an abused lover, I keep coming back to Halo 3's matchmaking. I hate the people who play it, but that hate makes the kills feel that much more satisfying. As much as I'll make fun of it, I really do enjoy Halo. I couldn't give a :bou::bou::bou::bou: about the story though, I just play it to pop a cap in those annoying twelve-year old skulls. :D

As for the rest of the list, seeing Robotron 2084 on the list made me beam a little. Such a fun game. Same for Puzzle Bobble and Disgaea. <3

But why, dear god, WHY is R-Type Final on that list when there are so many other shmups that outdo it in awesomeness? Has the guy who made this list even played games like DoDonPachi, Gunbird 2, Mushihime-sama, or even Mars Matrix or Giga Wing?

The sheer number of Final Fantasy and Zelda games on the list shows a shocking lack of variety. Final Fantasy isn't the only good RPG (and frankly, I don't like any of the ones mentioned aside from FFVI) and Zelda isn't always that great either. Maybe I'm just jaded.

I thought everyone from Edge just got up and quit?

Haha, that is so true. I've always wondered how to best describe his hair, but the best I've come up with is roadkill. I was kinda close, though.

edit: wtf at three people posting at the same time. EoFF is supposed to go through a dry spell right now you guys geez.

See, looking at individual games doesn't tell the whole story though. The first guy you linked, for instance, meebly. Yes, his stats indicate that he does abuse meleeing a lot. They also show, however, that in Ranked games his K/D ratio is 0.90, meaning he's died more times than he's killed people. From the looks of it, he's killed 2300 odd people and died 2600 times. Whichever way you look at it, the lad is crap at halo. The second person you linked had a BR as his top rated weapon by miles, and the third was...well, an anomaly really. Can honestly say i've never seen a person with that many assault rifle kills before. A Colonel as well xD What a hero. But yeah. Take someone like RippinHeads for example, he's rated as one of the best players in the game and BR is far and away his most used weapon. His Melee count is just a little higher than other close ranged weapons like the shotgun. It should also be noted that a large percentage of melee kills will come from close range encounters like this, for example if you attempt to shotgun someone and are just a little too far away from them for the damage to be instant kill, it's better to melee afterwards to kill them as you're in range, as it comes out quicker than waiting for the next shell to pump into the chamber. Overall you can see that he averages 19 kills a game and averages 2 melee kills a game, so it's not a very big part of his gameplan and as mentioned he is a highly rated player.

I should probably make it clear as well that I'm not exactly a Halo 3 lover, my list of gripes with the game is endless and almost every session we play usually includes me describing exactly what I'd like to do to certain members of the bungie development team for their idiocy. The campaign is crap, the story is a load of horse:bou::bou::bou::bou:. The characters range from boring to extremely annoying. Also, several of the multiplayer maps are awful. However as far as gameplay goes, I really don't see how Halo 3 can be considered a bad game. I've been playing FPS games for a good chunk of my life now and AFAIC Halo isn't comprehensively beaten by anything. My only problem is not being able to play it with a Mouse and Keyboard as I think it'd be far better if I could. The Auto-aim does annoy the :bou::bou::bou::bou: out of me but aside from that I don't have any issues with the gameplay. If people annoy me using failure tactics there's always SWAT anyway. Some of the maps are awesome however, Valhalla is one of my favourite FPS maps from any game, ever. Cold Storage can be outrageously fun, Standoff is excellent and The Pit is awesome.

In fact, my biggest gripe with Halo gameplay is when Bungie ruins the experience with :bou::bou::bou::bou: like Covies. That is a great way to turn people off your game, I assure you.

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Originally Posted by Justin

And yes, grenades are defensive but effective. Take Orbital or Narrows, for example. That place is a freaking grenadefest, and if you can dodge them all, then you sir are a better player than I.

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Narrows is a grenadefest but it's an obvious one and it's pretty pointless. Everyone lobs grenades over the middle and you know it's coming. There's not a lot you can do about it in some cases but it doesn't really matter because people throw them from so far away an there's so much cover that you can recover pretty easily almost anywhere on the map. Alternatively you could go downstairs 'cause hardly anyone goes down there after the sniper rifle/rockets go at the start.

For what it's worth I found the melee in Halo 3 incredibly annoying. Here I was running around shooting people and all the time someone would come out of nowhere, punch me once, and I'd be dead. I could take many bullets before I died though, just didn't make much sense to me. I'm not a fan of shooters though, and I've only played one session of Halo 3.

Well to be fair Lev, most of those were from me betraying you. Nothin' more baller than pistol whippin' a Norwegian.

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Originally Posted by DK

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Originally Posted by Justin

And yes, grenades are defensive but effective. Take Orbital or Narrows, for example. That place is a freaking grenadefest, and if you can dodge them all, then you sir are a better player than I.

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Narrows is a grenadefest but it's an obvious one and it's pretty pointless. Everyone lobs grenades over the middle and you know it's coming. There's not a lot you can do about it in some cases but it doesn't really matter because people throw them from so far away an there's so much cover that you can recover pretty easily almost anywhere on the map. Alternatively you could go downstairs 'cause hardly anyone goes down there after the sniper rifle/rockets go at the start.

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I usually just veto Narrows, but on the times I do have to play, I usually hang around at either end (preferably the opponent's) and just pick people off as they go for the catapult. Going into top center is suicide.

Psy:

Nah, we played more online than we did offline, but yeah, I wouldn't expect anything else from you!

I can have blindingly good or blindingly bad games on Halo 3, my abilities often depend on several factors, luck being a key one that I'll hit on, if I'm even slightly not feeling the game I'm done for.

However I have analyzed and found ways to make using guns that most Halo 3 players will claim are "terrible" "crap" or ":bou::bou::bou::bou:" work to my favour, half the time because people don't expect me to use them. My main gun of choice aside from a BR is to grab a spiker or even dual wield them I discovered that dual spikers is quicker to kill than dual plasma assault rifles. Though a combi of dual plasma and spiker is devastatingly effective if you take shields with plasma and then whoop them with the spiker. Melee is useful with this gun as a drum of 60 shots will generally deal with 2 people and the melee is pretty damn hard, I know of no melee with a gun which is as damaging for the speed of it's attack. In close maps like Orbrital this can be highly effective. However even I acknowledge the main gun I'll use is the battle rifle or the sniper rifle (I'm a pretty damn effective man with a sniper rifle and a good perch, because I used to love playing with the shotty sniper games especially on high ground) I rarely use grenades unless the hit is sure fire or if the need is great such as I'm suddenly finding myself outta ammo in the clip and nothing suitable to cover my reload with. Sometimes especially up close and personal it's better to dual wield if you can't get something with a great rate of fire. Though I still tend to use the BR up close and at a range.

I have to admit the shield thing is something which makes more sense, ok so I'd love to see the warthog sever limbs and leave arcing blood sprays all over the map but I doubt it :P Ok take a look at like Gears 2 or Call of Duty 4. The enemies fill you full of lead your screen goes bloodshot and red and then you die. If you duck in cover, stop getting hit you regenerate health. How is the idea that in some games of Call of Duty 4, someone can fill you with 50+ rounds of lead, yet miraculously you'll survive however in Halo 3 someone shoots a load of rifle rounds at you but you manage to survive them because the kinetic barrier (shield) deflects most of the bullets before your shield overheats and your armour and body is left to absorb the shots themselves. A few seconds/minutes outta the fire and the system reboots and your shield is up again ready for the next battle. What makes more sense? Eating 50+ bullets or deflecting them on a shield which regenerates?

Melee attacks are reserved for "last ditch" and "assasination" unless you've got a grav hammer or a sword in which case your melee isn't so much a melee as just attacking. Though sometimes I'm not adverse to sneaking up behind someone and then going *BOOM* to their skull with something like a spiker/brute shot and watch them die.

And on Swat mode it's surprising how many kills I can rake in on the pistol, though Dan missed my recent shot of glory, I managed to headshot a dude with a magnum as I picked up my second pistol for dual wielding before he noticed me with 1 bullet. Psy was quite impressed, as he was when my dual wielding pistol tactics caused another player to rage quit!

Theres several tactics which annoy me, the bunny hopping is a major gripe though thats been the way of FPS games since way before CS even. Still no game is perfect but Halo 3 is definitely one of the best games to be released in the last decade and fully deserves it's place on the list.

God yes little is more glorious than to go on a pistol rampage in SWAT

This thread isn't about Halo 3

and honestly, I can't believe Yoshi's Island got number 10. That game was easy as pie and ridiculously simple. I enjoyed playing it, but never wanted to touch it again after.

THE JACKEL

Yoshi's Island is still a great game though!

What a strange list. I definitely would have put Morrowind in there over Oblivion

Wow... here I was thinking I'd start controversy with my "flamebait" comment on OoT and instead it has devolved into a Halo thread.

Personally, I don't like Halo and could care less if its played by people who could be called gamers or retarded sub-human ape people who think throwing poo is the greatest game of all time (and frankly I don't see the difference when I play Halo).

As for the OoT comment. I don't hate the game and its not unplayable as much as the game has not aged well. I'm not talking simply about graphics or shallow things like that. Its level design is archaic, its controls are clunky, and every clever idea in the title was stolen directly out of LttP. Of anything, the title from a gameplay and design standpoint is basically a readers digest version of LttP. Its the ultimate example of a game that is worse than its predecessor yet is herald as the greatest game of all time cause its 3D and its predecessor wasn't and despite the borrowed elements working better in the 2D version, the 3D version is still somehow considered to be better? How does that work?

I love Zelda but I don't get the big deal about this game. I didn't like it back in 98 and I find it gets worse with each passing year as new titles are released. Twilight Princess was a better title cause it smoothed out the controls and its dungeons were a bit more imaginative (despite still ripping off its predecessors; then again, Zelda is one of Nintendo's Madden titles). OoT brought great music and larger emphasis on storytelling but alot of games do that and they also had have the mind to add good gameplay to it.

As for the list, I do disagree greatly with the top ten and I feel its a huge disservice that Ico and SotC didn't even crack the top 20. I also found it odd by the huge amount of puzzle games in the list as well as Singstar... wtf?

I agree there seems to be a very odd view of JRPGs in the list as well as disliking the choices of specific versions. I didn't care for Pokemon Yellow thank you and I feel wireless is no substitution for co-op in a Mario Kart game so screw the DS entry, since its a watered down version of the console versions. Disgaea is better served as a portable? That games picture is featured next to "time sinks" in the dictionary. Battles can last 15 minutes or a few hours. I don't see how that constitutes "pick up and go". I'm also sad that MGS3 didn't crack the top 20. :cry:

Still, go FFXII!!! :cool:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I'm also sad that MGS3 didn't crack the top 20. :cry:

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Yeah, I agree. It definitely deserved to be up there.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Wow... here I was thinking I'd start controversy with my "flamebait" comment on OoT and instead it has devolved into a Halo thread.

Personally, I don't like Halo and could care less if its played by people who could be called gamers or retarded sub-human ape people who think throwing poo is the greatest game of all time (and frankly I don't see the difference when I play Halo).

As for the OoT comment. I don't hate the game and its not unplayable as much as the game has not aged well. I'm not talking simply about graphics or shallow things like that. Its level design is archaic, its controls are clunky, and every clever idea in the title was stolen directly out of LttP. Of anything, the title from a gameplay and design standpoint is basically a readers digest version of LttP. Its the ultimate example of a game that is worse than its predecessor yet is herald as the greatest game of all time cause its 3D and its predecessor wasn't and despite the borrowed elements working better in the 2D version, the 3D version is still somehow considered to be better? How does that work?

I love Zelda but I don't get the big deal about this game. I didn't like it back in 98 and I find it gets worse with each passing year as new titles are released. Twilight Princess was a better title cause it smoothed out the controls and its dungeons were a bit more imaginative (despite still ripping off its predecessors; then again, Zelda is one of Nintendo's Madden titles). OoT brought great music and larger emphasis on storytelling but alot of games do that and they also had have the mind to add good gameplay to it.

As for the list, I do disagree greatly with the top ten and I feel its a huge disservice that Ico and SotC didn't even crack the top 20. I also found it odd by the huge amount of puzzle games in the list as well as Singstar... wtf?

I agree there seems to be a very odd view of JRPGs in the list as well as disliking the choices of specific versions. I didn't care for Pokemon Yellow thank you and I feel wireless is no substitution for co-op in a Mario Kart game so screw the DS entry, since its a watered down version of the console versions. Disgaea is better served as a portable? That games picture is featured next to "time sinks" in the dictionary. Battles can last 15 minutes or a few hours. I don't see how that constitutes "pick up and go". I'm also sad that MGS3 didn't crack the top 20. :cry:

Still, go FFXII!!! :cool:

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OoT is the FFVII of the Zelda series-- a solid yet controversial game (that is to say, controversial in the context that a lot of people like it and a lot of people dislike it).

The difference here is I actually liked OoT. However, #1 is just a ridiculous spot for it, and is better suited to a different game.

Okay having had my fun savaging Halo 3 nonsense I am going to go through this list and savage some of the bullhockey

89 - FFVI - Really? That low? It's not my fave FF ever but I'm fairly sure it deserves to be above things like Singstar and Peggle.

78 - UFO: Enemy Unknown - This is one of the most brilliant and accomplished games ever made. It's more atmospheric in its pixellated isometry than a good 90% of everything out in the past five years. It is sheer heaven in gaming form and deserves a position in the top 5.

72 - Skate2 - Skate and Skate2 are damned good games and really put TH to shame but this game should not be higher than either of the two I already mentioned. Not even close.

68 - Shadow of the Colossus - Really, Edge? Really? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'greatest' but I can assure you that SotC is one of the most important games ever made, and frankly deserves a category all of its own: "Games to play before you die".

57 - Deus Ex - I don't agree with a single criticism there. Deus Ex evokes more feeling in me aesthetically than anything except Shadow of the Colossus and perhaps Mirror's Edge. It is also one of the greatest games ever made and deserves a top 10 position.

48 - FFVII - I'll admit that I am perhaps willing to overlook some of FFVII's faults, but to suggest that it isn't a great game that needs to be played is lunacy. This one might not be top 10 material, but it's better than top 50.

45 - TES Oblivion - The reason, dear Edge, for the mod community is that when you have installed a vast, vast number of mods, this game becomes the epic, deep, brilliant gemstone that it should have been since the start. Without it, it is a deeply flawed game, with poor voice acting, senseless decisions, a highly disappointing move away from the company's prior stock - specifically the genuinely enganging, unique, beautiful, absent Morrowind.

34 - BioShock - I don't dispute that it belongs on this list, but it doesn't belong this high. The gameplay is, frankly, average. The atmosphere and plot are what make the game, but sadly the latter is squandered with great force, almost deliberate intent. Worth playing if only to imagine what might have been (And might yet be?)

25 - FFXII - Really. This, and no FFX? I've only failed to finish two FFXIs that came after V - IX and XII. IX was because I'm :bou::bou::bou::bou: at it. XII is because I completely lost interest. FFX is pretty much the perfect FF - enganging, in an interesting and original world, with diverse and believable characters (Yuna's a Mary-Sue, sure. Because the entire world raised her to be one.) and, let's not forget, by far the best combat system in any FF, the best levelling system, and the best array of bonus content. In few other games can I feel the wind on my face when I close my eyes. And those FMVs are truly timeless - but then I remember truly gorgeous cutscenes from every FF that has them, except for FFXII.

22 - GTA Vice City - I agree with this game's position and writeup 100%.

19 - Civ IV - I would contend personally that Civ III is the best of them all (And SMAC is, in turn, better still). IV just doesn't feel to me to have the right balance in terms of construction vs techs. By the time I've got half an army ready it all needs upgraded.

12 - GTA IV - GTA IV is a truly magnificent game, and a masterpiece in every way. It is a game which everyone should play, regardless of whether they first picked up a pad with tiny baby hands 25 years ago or if they've never even touched Wii Fit. It's also a hell of a lot less fun than VC and SA are. I wouldn't rate this one so far above them.

7 - Tetris - Seriously? We're STILL sucking off Tetris? Look I love the game as much as anyone, but contrary to popular clamor yes, it can get old. The only reason I play Tetris anymore is for novelty value; aside from a trip down memory lane there are many, many games I'd rather be playing.

5 - The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - Okay. I admit I've never grokked Zelda. I guess that's just me, given how most others seem to adore it. But I will not stand idly by and let this be here while the true master of top-down action-RPGs goes unmentioned. That game, friends, is Alundra, and it is a thousand times anything Zelda has ever been to me.

4 - Resident Evil 4 - Okay I'm going to have to go right ahead and say this is one game I didn't expect to see this high. An interesting choice, and a reasonable one, but 5 to 10 positions too high in my opinion.

3 - Half-Life 2 - This one wasn't a surprise. At least it's not the original though; at least this one DESERVES the praise it gets, even if not to the degree it gets it.

2 - Super Mario 64 - Unusual to see this above the 2D Marios, and refreshing, because for my money this really is the best of the lot. Not better, however, than UFO Enemy Unknown.

1 - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - One day, someone is going to make a list of the best games ever. On that day, that list will not have OoT in the top position. Not in the top 3, not even in the top 5. On the day this happens, there will be a list of greatest games ever that actually says something interesting. (One day, will there be a list which puts Suikoden II in the top spot? I doubt it. But what is a man, if not a dreamer?)

And where, finally, is Mass Effect? Where is Dwarf Fortress, surely the most interesting game of the last few years? Where is TimeSplitters? Where is Europa Universalis III and its vast scope, its ahistorical genius? Where is the flawed, yet superb, Mount & Blade? Where is Star Ocean 2, easily one of the best JRPGs ever made? Where are Suikoden II, III, V? Where on God's good Earth is Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri?

No Odin Sphere? No Xenosaga?

*nunchucks the list*

I haven't really read most of this thread carefully but.

Yoshi's Island easy? Hahaha, maybe if you don't try to 100% every level. There were a few secret ones I never got without savestates.

The lack of Okami makes me sad. It was a great game that more people should have played!

I am happy that FFXII got a decent position though, I really do enjoy it but I realize it is one of the more controversial games in the series. The lack of FFT is saddening.

I also think Twilight Princess should have done better. Although a rather easy game, it has gorgeous graphics (for the Wii) and I simply love it, especially the controls (for the most part). Aiming with the Wii-mote far greater than using the GC/N64 controller. Okay, it helps that I have a major crush on Link too (if my sig was any indication). :/

Odd they did not mention more JRPGs though. :/ Like WHERE THE HECK IS PERSONA 3 (or even 4)? Seriously. *Sighs* Then again, lists like these are bound to miss stuff.

EDIT: Where is my KH? T_T

You guys are acting as if Edge is any sort of authoratative informer in the gaming industry - they're just a mediocre magazine with mediocre journalism.

Actually Omecle, I was just responding to some blatant sony fanboy crap which blames Halo for all Sony's woes. Lets be fair The PS3 has the graphical capacity, it has the format win (blu-ray) it has the best hard-drive if you exclude the 360 elite. However here is where Sony fails: Online. Sorry guys but the PSN is free yes but it's also highly unstable and not as efficient as the Xbox Live network. As with most internet things; you get what you pay for. When you pay for the servers you end up with a better service and those complaining about £39.99 for a year + 1 month free is less than £4 a month. It also fails to give up some truly epic in house/exclusive games. Killzone 2 is good but so far it's not showing Halo 3 up in much same goes for a lot of the other exclusives. The real differences could have been made with titles such as Final Fantasy XIII however thats not an exclusive anymore.

Now about the top 100 games, excluding Halo 3 as I've said my part on this:

There are so many fantastic games out there not on this list, Star Ocean, Breath of Fire, Jade Cocoon, Front Mission 3, Fable (which is imho better than fable 2 though fable 2 is bigger) KOTOR, Suidoken (I only own IV but it's fantastic fun with a good mix of strategy, action and traditional rpg elements for combat = win) Spyro or Crash for platformers, Tomb Raider, Mass Effect, Ace Combat, Dead or Alive, Tekken, my god I can keep going all bloody day. And mostly these are latest generation games, if I go right the way back to the late 80s and early 90s when I first began gaming then I'd possibly do 200+ titles which deserve to be in the list.

At the end of the day what are Edge basing their choices on? Is it sales figures? if so thats a pretty bad way to decide this, was it publicly voted for? If so where, when and can you trust the results of an internet poll? Especially when some people are so intent on causing a massive disruption, need I remind people of the quest which failed to make Rick Astley the christmas number 1? That was nigh on impossible, affecting the outcome of a poll on Edge Magazine's website is a lot easier. Or was it merely personal choices of their staff did they go around and say: "hey name a great game" to 100 of their staff and then decide randomly/editorial choice of whose game is better. I just feel they made some crap decisions in there but mostly the right choices are made it's just the ordering they've done makes no sense I also disagree with so many mario spin offs or titles being there same with zelda and GTA. 3+ titles from any one series is too many when you're doing just 100 games because lets face it. Unless you're 12 you won't love every mario game out there. I personally hate the fat red dungareed plumber with a vengance which is why I will NEVER own a wii myself.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

57 - Deus Ex - I don't agree with a single criticism there. Deus Ex evokes more feeling in me aesthetically than anything except Shadow of the Colossus and perhaps Mirror's Edge. It is also one of the greatest games ever made and deserves a top 10 position.

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Deus Ex is indeed one of the greatest games of all time but aesthetically the game is quite ugly. Even for 2000 it was ugly. But a well story story, exceptional soundtrack and brilliant game design makes the game timeless. Top 10? Deserves to be number 1.

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25 - FFXII - Really. This, and no FFX? I've only failed to finish two FFXIs that came after V - IX and XII. IX was because I'm :bou::bou::bou::bou: at it. XII is because I completely lost interest. FFX is pretty much the perfect FF - enganging, in an interesting and original world, with diverse and believable characters (Yuna's a Mary-Sue, sure. Because the entire world raised her to be one.) and, let's not forget, by far the best combat system in any FF, the best levelling system, and the best array of bonus content. In few other games can I feel the wind on my face when I close my eyes. And those FMVs are truly timeless - but then I remember truly gorgeous cutscenes from every FF that has them, except for FFXII.

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I can understand where your coming from but FFXII did so may things people overlook. How abouts its gameplay and its willingness to go places where other JRPG's would never go. Even with its lame story, weak music and straightforward license board system the game still juggled the real-time gameplay and gambit system into a very strategic and fun gameplay experience which the series had overlooked for far too long by that point.

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Half-Life 2 - This one wasn't a surprise. At least it's not the original though; at least this one DESERVES the praise it gets, even if not to the degree it gets it.

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I take it your against the original Half Life. Care to explain? I prefer it over Half Life 2 but can't argue with Half Life 2 being so high because that game is incredible also. I think the original Half Life is getting quite overlooked these days.

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

Actually Omecle, I was just responding to some blatant sony fanboy crap which blames Halo for all Sony's woes. Lets be fair The PS3 has the graphical capacity, it has the format win (blu-ray) it has the best hard-drive if you exclude the 360 elite. However here is where Sony fails: Online. Sorry guys but the PSN is free yes but it's also highly unstable and not as efficient as the Xbox Live network. As with most internet things; you get what you pay for. When you pay for the servers you end up with a better service and those complaining about £39.99 for a year + 1 month free is less than £4 a month. It also fails to give up some truly epic in house/exclusive games. Killzone 2 is good but so far it's not showing Halo 3 up in much same goes for a lot of the other exclusives. The real differences could have been made with titles such as Final Fantasy XIII however thats not an exclusive anymore.

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I had you as one of the clever and mature ones but I was clearly wrong. You claim your responding to "blatant Sony fanboy crap" and then respond with even more "blatant Xbox fanboy crap". And your arguement is what, Online? Exclusives? What is this, 2007? Next time come with better points that haven't be void for over a year now.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

You guys are acting as if Edge is any sort of authoratative informer in the gaming industry - they're just a mediocre magazine with mediocre journalism.

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I have to disagree. I think this list stinks but I've always found Edge's reputation to be fairly well deserved. As long as you don't look at the review numbers, and actually read the articles. :p

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

57 - Deus Ex - I don't agree with a single criticism there. Deus Ex evokes more feeling in me aesthetically than anything except Shadow of the Colossus and perhaps Mirror's Edge. It is also one of the greatest games ever made and deserves a top 10 position.

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Deus Ex is indeed one of the greatest games of all time but aesthetically the game is quite ugly. Even for 2000 it was ugly. But a well story story, exceptional soundtrack and brilliant game design makes the game timeless. Top 10? Deserves to be number 1.

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I guess it's just personal then. I don't think the graphics are 'good' but I think they work exceptionally well.

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25 - FFXII

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I can understand where your coming from but FFXII did so may things people overlook. How abouts its gameplay and its willingness to go places where other JRPG's would never go. Even with its lame story, weak music and straightforward license board system the game still juggled the real-time gameplay and gambit system into a very strategic and fun gameplay experience which the series had overlooked for far too long by that point.

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I agree that FFXII deserves a lot of credit for trying something new and which, I admit, worked reasonably well. But I'd have rather they gave us a generic battle system (Because for me, 'generic' in FF terms means 'goddamn genius' next to almost anything else :p) and actually worked on the story and characters. The only FFXII characters I care about at all are Penelo, Balthier, and Larsa. And I care about pretty much everyone in FFX, down to bit-part characters like Belgemine, way more than anyone in FFXII. And I do find the battle system rather flawed in several ways - the regularity with which one has to cast buffs, for instance.

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Half-Life 2 - This one wasn't a surprise. At least it's not the original though; at least this one DESERVES the praise it gets, even if not to the degree it gets it.

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I take it your against the original Half Life. Care to explain? I prefer it over Half Life 2 but can't argue with Half Life 2 being so high because that game is incredible also. I think the original Half Life is getting quite overlooked these days.

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I realize I'm pretty much on my own on this one, but I thought the original HL was massively, massively overrated. I never got a single bit of the hype, it was a fairly generic shooter which didn't do anything especially engaging or enjoyable. And I still disagree vehemently with the choice to make Gordon Freeman a non-entity, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Iceglow - Agreed with several of the games you listed as deserving a spot. Also you should pick up Suikoden III or better yet V - IV is by a considerable margin the worst in the series :p

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

I agree that FFXII deserves a lot of credit for trying something new and which, I admit, worked reasonably well. But I'd have rather they gave us a generic battle system (Because for me, 'generic' in FF terms means 'goddamn genius' next to almost anything else :p) and actually worked on the story and characters. The only FFXII characters I care about at all are Penelo, Balthier, and Larsa. And I care about pretty much everyone in FFX, down to bit-part characters like Belgemine, way more than anyone in FFXII. And I do find the battle system rather flawed in several ways - the regularity with which one has to cast buffs, for instance.

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I was actually happy that buffs were actually worth your time in FFXII. In some of the past games, I found that "Green Magic" was more or less a waste of time and MP. In FFXII, it actually became useful. That being said, I only tended to use them later on when I got the area-effect ones. Even then it was predominantly in boss/mark fights.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

As for the OoT comment. I don't hate the game and its not unplayable as much as the game has not aged well. I'm not talking simply about graphics or shallow things like that. Its level design is archaic, its controls are clunky, and every clever idea in the title was stolen directly out of LttP. Of anything, the title from a gameplay and design standpoint is basically a readers digest version of LttP. Its the ultimate example of a game that is worse than its predecessor yet is herald as the greatest game of all time cause its 3D and its predecessor wasn't and despite the borrowed elements working better in the 2D version, the 3D version is still somehow considered to be better? How does that work?

I love Zelda but I don't get the big deal about this game. I didn't like it back in 98 and I find it gets worse with each passing year as new titles are released. Twilight Princess was a better title cause it smoothed out the controls and its dungeons were a bit more imaginative (despite still ripping off its predecessors; then again, Zelda is one of Nintendo's Madden titles). OoT brought great music and larger emphasis on storytelling but alot of games do that and they also had have the mind to add good gameplay to it.

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To get back to your original bait: well, when you put it like that, I can understand where you're coming from. OoT obviously suffers from the problems of early 3D level design where it relies on simple/convenient geometrical shapes and gameplay in encounters and boss battles can suffer. I would say that it makes it seem more unimaginative by today's standards, as opposed to unplayable though. And I think I'd actually have to agree on your LttP->OoT/2D->3D comment, despite the fact that it's caused global warfare between us when applied to the Final Fantasy series.

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

Actually Omecle, I was just responding to some blatant sony fanboy crap which blames Halo for all Sony's woes. Lets be fair The PS3 has the graphical capacity, it has the format win (blu-ray) it has the best hard-drive if you exclude the 360 elite. However here is where Sony fails: Online. Sorry guys but the PSN is free yes but it's also highly unstable and not as efficient as the Xbox Live network. As with most internet things; you get what you pay for. When you pay for the servers you end up with a better service and those complaining about £39.99 for a year + 1 month free is less than £4 a month. It also fails to give up some truly epic in house/exclusive games. Killzone 2 is good but so far it's not showing Halo 3 up in much same goes for a lot of the other exclusives. The real differences could have been made with titles such as Final Fantasy XIII however thats not an exclusive anymore.

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I had you as one of the clever and mature ones but I was clearly wrong. You claim your responding to "blatant Sony fanboy crap" and then respond with even more "blatant Xbox fanboy crap". And your arguement is what, Online? Exclusives? What is this, 2007? Next time come with better points that haven't be void for over a year now.

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I hate to start a flamewar after seeing what happened with Halo, but I think we can discuss the facts rationally and apply it to the topic.

Iceglow, this is clearly a rare moment where you're uninformed. I think it's a matter of public record that PS3 had more and more notable exclusives last year in 2008 than possibly any other system, and does again this year.

This leads over to the discussion, since I think Valkyria Chronicles and Little Big Planet are clearly highly praised, highly addicting games that could at least beat out SingStar or Peggle. On a personal note, VC is absolutely one of my favorite SRPG's of all time.

Also, I think any of the first 3 Shining Force games should have at least secured a place. The writers obviously haven't played much Sega, either.

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Originally Posted by The Man

I haven't really read most of this thread carefully but.

Yoshi's Island easy? Hahaha, maybe if you don't try to 100% every level. There were a few secret ones I never got without savestates.

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I was 10 years old when I got the game, and within a week I had accomplished everything at 100%. Sure one or two levels were a pain in the butt, but they weren't what I would classify as difficult. They're basically identical to "difficult" on half of today's games. Cheap.

This list doesn't really matter that much, and I don't care if people disagree. I don't agree with probably 50 of the games on there, doesn't make me any more or less right than someone else.

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Dreddz

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Originally Posted by Iceglow

Actually Omecle, I was just responding to some blatant sony fanboy crap which blames Halo for all Sony's woes. Lets be fair The PS3 has the graphical capacity, it has the format win (blu-ray) it has the best hard-drive if you exclude the 360 elite. However here is where Sony fails: Online. Sorry guys but the PSN is free yes but it's also highly unstable and not as efficient as the Xbox Live network. As with most internet things; you get what you pay for. When you pay for the servers you end up with a better service and those complaining about £39.99 for a year + 1 month free is less than £4 a month. It also fails to give up some truly epic in house/exclusive games. Killzone 2 is good but so far it's not showing Halo 3 up in much same goes for a lot of the other exclusives. The real differences could have been made with titles such as Final Fantasy XIII however thats not an exclusive anymore.

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I had you as one of the clever and mature ones but I was clearly wrong. You claim your responding to "blatant Sony fanboy crap" and then respond with even more "blatant Xbox fanboy crap". And your arguement is what, Online? Exclusives? What is this, 2007? Next time come with better points that haven't be void for over a year now.

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I hate to start a flamewar after seeing what happened with Halo, but I think we can discuss the facts rationally and apply it to the topic.

Iceglow, this is clearly a rare moment where you're uninformed. I think it's a matter of public record that PS3 had more and more notable exclusives last year in 2008 than possibly any other system, and does again this year.

This leads over to the discussion, since I think Valkyria Chronicles and Little Big Planet are clearly highly praised, highly addicting games that could at least beat out SingStar or Peggle. On a personal note, VC is absolutely one of my favorite SRPG's of all time.

Also, I think any of the first 3 Shining Force games should have at least secured a place. The writers obviously haven't played much Sega, either.

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I work for HMV it's a matter of pride and needing to know because it's my job for me to know the games out I see the ps3 and 360 exclusives in the last year and lined up for release and tbh very little from either side is grabbing my attention. The ps3 possibly edges out in some regards but a notable exclusive isn't much unless you are in posession of all major consoles and play every exclusive title to compare with, 360, ps3 and wii.

Now, to be honest looking at all 3 major formats (excluding pc's deliberately) PS3 is the best possible choice for those interested in Blu-ray and also in HD gaming and it has the option of free internet gaming and also some great games, even though being difficult to code for means some games (e.g. fallout 3) need patching on day of release for PS3 which more often than not is not needed on the 360. As to if it's the most powerful on the market it and the 360 overall in terms of output games wise I'd say is pretty similar, nothing exclusive really outshines anything the other console can put out exclusively and thats where the comparisson lines really are drawn. The PS3 is a must for anyone who wants a 3rd gen console and a Blu-ray player for their room without having tons of machines over the place. (think on it, if they have the SKY+ HD machine and a console and then a blu-ray player that would be 3 machines to fit in and around their TV. A PS3 removes the need for one of those machines. Even I will be getting one of these eventually so I can play KZ2, MGS4, FFXIII Versus and some other exclusive titles I've kept an eye on.

Wii, whilst entirely too gimmicky and tacky for my personal liking is great for the kids and the people who don't have the time to sit there playing games seriously. It offers the most accessible gaming options and quite possibly the best party game soloution. It however although appearing cheap because the console itself is now available to buy for just under £175 including wii sports and a second wii remote and wii play it is actually probably the most expensive console. Nintendo were clever, the controllers if they wear out are in 2 parts, remote and nunchuck, the remote is £32.99 and the nunchuck is £19.99 (I sold 4 wii bundles today hence I know this off the top of my head) compare a wired 360 control pad costs around £21.99 and a Wireless is £30 ish. Add in to this the many extra "accessories" which whilst not essential will help make the games easier to control these are often sold for around £5 - £10 in the long run you spend more on the Wii than any other console.

The 360, yes I own one and yes I really enjoy gaming on it. However it too has it's serious flaws, the main one ofcourse, the red ring of death I've been lucky and not seen it first hand but I've experienced random freezing on games. I could list all the reasons why I love the 360 but suffice to say in terms of multiplayer console gaming the 360 really does win over the ps3. The number of players supported by the games servers depends really on whether the game studio is providing it's own servers and connections linked in to the greater shell of their formats gaming network.

So for now I'm happy with my 360.

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Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

68 - Shadow of the Colossus - Really, Edge? Really? I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'greatest' but I can assure you that SotC is one of the most important games ever made, and frankly deserves a category all of its own: "Games to play before you die".

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I could not agree with you more on this one.

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25 - FFXII - Really. This, and no FFX? I've only failed to finish two FFXIs that came after V - IX and XII. IX was because I'm :bou::bou::bou::bou: at it. XII is because I completely lost interest. FFX is pretty much the perfect FF - enganging, in an interesting and original world, with diverse and believable characters (Yuna's a Mary-Sue, sure. Because the entire world raised her to be one.) and, let's not forget, by far the best combat system in any FF, the best levelling system, and the best array of bonus content. In few other games can I feel the wind on my face when I close my eyes. And those FMVs are truly timeless - but then I remember truly gorgeous cutscenes from every FF that has them, except for FFXII.

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This, I completely disagree with you cause I feel the complete opposite about FFX. I feel XII deserves its spot and X should not be on any lists with "Greatest" in the title unless its followed by "Disappointment". Granted, I'm not saying XII is some vision of perfection, I have my own issues with the title but the unparalleled world design and its daring innovation puts it far above X. XII was a different experience, X was an accumulation of the series with a few steps back. This of course is just my opinion.

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1 - The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - One day, someone is going to make a list of the best games ever. On that day, that list will not have OoT in the top position. Not in the top 3, not even in the top 5. On the day this happens, there will be a list of greatest games ever that actually says something interesting. (One day, will there be a list which puts Suikoden II in the top spot? I doubt it. But what is a man, if not a dreamer?)

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I can only hope I live to see that day.

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And where, finally, is Mass Effect? Where is Dwarf Fortress, surely the most interesting game of the last few years? Where is TimeSplitters? Where is Europa Universalis III and its vast scope, its ahistorical genius? Where is the flawed, yet superb, Mount & Blade? Where is Star Ocean 2, easily one of the best JRPGs ever made? Where are Suikoden II, III, V? Where on God's good Earth is Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri?

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I completely agree about the lack of Suikoden love, I cannot fathom why people overlook this series.

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Originally Posted by Marshall Banana

No Odin Sphere? No Xenogears?

*nunchucks the list*

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Fixed...

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Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan

The lack of Okami makes me sad. It was a great game that more people should have played!

I am happy that FFXII got a decent position though, I really do enjoy it but I realize it is one of the more controversial games in the series. The lack of FFT is saddening.

I also think Twilight Princess should have done better. Although a rather easy game, it has gorgeous graphics (for the Wii) and I simply love it, especially the controls (for the most part). Aiming with the Wii-mote far greater than using the GC/N64 controller. Okay, it helps that I have a major crush on Link too (if my sig was any indication). :/

Odd they did not mention more JRPGs though. :/ Like WHERE THE HECK IS PERSONA 3 (or even 4)? Seriously. *Sighs* Then again, lists like these are bound to miss stuff.

EDIT: Where is my KH? T_T

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I'm also dumbfounded by Persona 3 or 4 not making the list... As well as Okami. I agree that TP got a bit of the shaft as well.

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Originally Posted by Omecle

You guys are acting as if Edge is any sort of authoritative informer in the gaming industry - they're just a mediocre magazine with mediocre journalism.

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No, we're just tearing the list apart out of boredom. Its fun and well... we're bored. I feel you missed the point cause I'm sure most of us don't really give a rats ass about Edge's opinion. Still, analyzing the mindset of an editorial publication can be fun. :)

To Bolivar: we will always have our arguments concerning the transition of 2D to 3D on FF but at least they are always fun... ;) As for Zelda, I feel a bit stronger about this game as well as Fighting games cause I felt it was a bit unfair that good 2D games were overlooked cause they were not utilizing the current rage in the gaming community. I will give that VII has aged better than many of the games from that transitional era.

*Performs Midareba on Wolf*

I don't like the list. I just find it to have too many great games too high up. That being said, it's only my opinion and I haven't played a lot of them.

Halo 3 isn't crap. I enjoy it, but I don't think it's so fabulous a gold statue should be made. Each to their own, but try not to force your opinion on other people.

Also, I'm kinda sick of seeing OoT at the top. It was great for it's time, but surely something else has surpassed it?

They had RR4 in there, so that makes up for any problems I may or may not have with the rest of the list.

Where is the love for Rollercoaster Tycoon you guys :cry:

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Originally Posted by Rantzien

Where is the love for Rollercoaster Tycoon you guys :cry:

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Theme Park > *

The fact that they mentioned Thief II at all makes me extremely happy. Sure I disagree with the majority of the placements, but I'd be no less a subjective judge of the "100 Greatest Games to Play Today". My lack of Sega consoles gaming (looking to get a Dreamcast soon though!) and overall preference toward PC and Nintendo games would likely piss of a good number of the posters in this thread. Still, even putting subjectivity aside, I wish there were more games not in the 2005-2009 window.

But eh, whatcha gonna do?

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

This leads over to the discussion, since I think Valkyria Chronicles and Little Big Planet are clearly highly praised, highly addicting games that could at least beat out SingStar or Peggle.

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Maybe you went back and noticed, but Little Big Planet is sitting comfortably at #11. Just wanted to point that out there. No sign of Valkyria Chronicles though.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

The writers obviously haven't played much Sega, either.

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After going back and looking at the list I think your right. I reckon the writer probably hasn't touched a Sega system in his life. He names Rez, Outrun, Daytona USA and Jet Set Radio Future. All of which aren't exclusive to a Sega system so I'm betting he probably played these games elsewhere. Wheres Sonic? Phantasy Star? Shinobi? Panzer Dragoon? NiGHTS? Shining Force? Not even a single Megadrive game made the list!

The guy was obviously a Nintendo kid growing up. Nothing wrong with that but hes in no position to have made this list.

OoT being top of the list isn't the most inspired choice ever, but it's still a very good game. There was a bias to recent games, but on the whole it was one of the better of the lists I've seen done, as they're never perfect and it's only one or two people's opinions really. It's hardly empirical. Not perfect, by any means, but not terrible.

Also, I must admit that I've become somewhat of a convert to Halo recently. The first game wasn't that amazing, I don't think, but Halo 3 is a really fun game to play, single-player or multi-player.

I would hardly call FFXII the 'best game to play today' in the FF series, not by a long shot. And how do Oblivion and Fallout III outnumber their superior and fiercely more revolutionary predecessors?

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

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Originally Posted by The Man

I haven't really read most of this thread carefully but.

Yoshi's Island easy? Hahaha, maybe if you don't try to 100% every level. There were a few secret ones I never got without savestates.

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I was 10 years old when I got the game, and within a week I had accomplished everything at 100%. Sure one or two levels were a pain in the butt, but they weren't what I would classify as difficult. They're basically identical to "difficult" on half of today's games. Cheap.

This list doesn't really matter that much, and I don't care if people disagree. I don't agree with probably 50 of the games on there, doesn't make me any more or less right than someone else.

THE JACKAL

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I got the 100% easily on all the non-secret levels as well, but then I played video games about six hours a day then. A casual gamer would not be able to complete it, and it's much more difficult than anything in, say, SMW except for one or two levels.

I mean yeah, it's not like Ninja Gaiden hard, but seriously, it's a damn Mario game. It's not supposed to be Ninja Gaiden hard.