These are a few of my hated things...

I've been surfing around the forums a lot over the last few days, and I wanted to add some unpopular opinions. This is in no way an attempt to flame or start a fight. On that note....

I despise Bliztball(yes, the original from X) and any form of chocobo raising. Granted, I know that I'm going to have to do chocobo raising for VII(my first playthrough), but I found it to be tedious and it feels unrewarding most of the time. Blitzball, on the other hand, was an okay mini-game, but I reallly didn't like the turn-based aspect to it. I would have prefered to either have it all turn-based or just let me have control over it directly.

Is there anyone that agrees with me about these games? If not, what mini-games in FF's history has thoroughly chapped your hide?

I don't mind Chocobo Breeding, I would love to see it come back and become even more in-depth tbh but I somehow enjoy the tedious aspect of it all.

Blitzball, I completely agree with as I find the games get completely redundant once you either assemble an awesome team or just level the Aurochs up. You spend the first quarter of playing it losing but leveling and getting some useful skills. There is this criminally short period in the middle of the game where its fun and then once your team gets good, it becomes ridiculously easy to dominate the game. Not to mention that getting most of the good items from the game involves huge time sinks of playing boring tournament bouts... Its long, tedious, boring, and nets you very little in value in terms of the rest of the game.

My only other despised FF minigame is Tetra Master as it is also pointless, random, and requires no thought or strategy to win beyond making sure you go last. Its terrible...

I take Blitzball and Chocobo Breeding in VII as they are, I find them quite enjoyable most of the time although I doubt I'd do breeding again. My next playthrough of VII I'm probably going to skip a lot of battles just to make it a good challenge relative for me, inverse of how i usually play a couple extra battles to steal an item I want and I get overlevelled.

A mini-game I just didn't like was Triple Triad. I could just never get into it and I would usually get steamed the few times I'd give it a shot and lose a lot. I guess I've just never given it a fair shake.

Other things in FF that chapped my hide? I guess I didn't like in FFVI how you immediately start getting ultimate equipment once you start the World of Ruin. I mean I understand it's entirely optional end-game quests, but I just feel like I play what I feel I'm supposed to, and I'm left with this absurd cache of unbelievably overpowered equipment and the game loses all challenge.

Blitzball was just annoying, i didn't get it or the blooming sphere grids, thos things put me of X

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Other things in FF that chapped my hide? I guess I didn't like in FFVI how you immediately start getting ultimate equipment once you start the World of Ruin. I mean I understand it's entirely optional end-game quests, but I just feel like I play what I feel I'm supposed to, and I'm left with this absurd cache of unbelievably overpowered equipment and the game loses all challenge.

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I need to ask, what exactly are you constituting as ultimate equipment in VI? I can't really think of too many awesome end game level equipment that's accessible before the final dungeon.

Also, what's with all the hate for Chocobo breeding from everyone? :confused:

I pretty much never hated any sidegame stuff or chocobo breeding (idk why people are hatin the bocos); I just like some more than others. Like Triple Triad >>>>>>> Tetra Master. I also played entirely too much blitzball, but I'd play it even more on another play through I bet, this time getting the best team in the game instead of just finding one of them and keeping the aurochs lol.

I wasn't aware that most people liked chocobo breeding.

Blitzball is pretty painful. Not many things can kill my interest in the opening hours of a new Final Fantasy game, but Blitzball managed.

>>> Unlike other Jrpgs, we should be grateful that all those tedious FF minigames/quests are just optional..
Oh yeah, you had to beat some Tetra master tournament in FF9 to advance in the game.. :eep:

Don't forget that Blitzball tournament in X you have to do...

But you're pretty much expected to lose the Blitzball tournament. :p

I can't say any mini-games really bugged me. FFX is difficult along the lines of Chocobo Racing and Lightning Dodging, but they didn't annoy me, nor are they really mini-games. :)

I like Chocobo breeding, I love the anticip.........ation of waiting to see what the chocobos are like when they are born. plus its easy, just takes a while

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I need to ask, what exactly are you constituting as ultimate equipment in VI? I can't really think of too many awesome end game level equipment that's accessible before the final dungeon.

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I'm sorry...what? Maybe 1/10 of the end game equipment is in the Final Dungeon, nearly everything is in the sidequests.

Right off the bat, you start getting Crystal armor, I think in the first few missions getting Mash, Cayenne, and Edgar back together if memory serves me right.

3 Major counterpoints about the Crystal Armor

1) Crystal gear hasn't been considered "ultimate gear" since FFIV and even in THAT game there is still better armor.

2) The armor you speak of can only be equipped by a handful of characters and most of those characters actually have better equipment options than Crystal Gear. Let's face it, if they are using Crystal Armor its because someone else is equipped with the better gear not because its the best.

3) Have a high defense stat does not mean its the best armor. The Red Jacket, Black Garb, Minerva Bustier, and Genji Equipment are all better in terms of raising other stats and granting bonuses over the cost of what amounts to 5 or 10 defense points which can easily be made up with the Esper system. Even then, the best defensive armor in that game (Snow Scarf) is only useable by three characters (Umaro, Gau, and Mog) and all these extra equipment are not so easily found as you say it is. Most of the best gear is obtained in the Cyan's Dream World and Phoenix Cave and I don't exactly consider those dungeons to be walks in the park despite this being VI.

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Originally Posted by Jiro

But you're pretty much expected to lose the Blitzball tournament. :p

I can't say any mini-games really bugged me. FFX is difficult along the lines of Chocobo Racing and Lightning Dodging, but they didn't annoy me, nor are they really mini-games. :)

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*totally ate faces in the blitzball tournament* Jecht shot makes that tournament very easy. Also I dont remember bothering with chocobos in X, and lightning dodging was easy as long as you just looked at the screen. :P

Kanno, you're firstly missing the point. Crystal Armor still constitutes amazing end-game equipment that you get right off the bat. You're also forgetting that trading off benefits for others is what FF equipment is all about, especially endgame. I think you're reaching for straws by saying simply because something is not the best, it's not in the same category of ultimate equipment your characters want end-game. You're post is also a red-herring in that you explain why Crystal Armor is not the best in the game without refuting the fact that you begin getting the best equipment in the game shortly after the mid-way point, while not even establishing that Crystal Armor does not fit in that category.

Something else that's part-minigame and part-chaps my hide was the marks in FFXII. Somewhere along the line it becomes a redundant excuse to draw out the length of the game. They start swapping monster templates with an added touch of color to show how lazy it got. All it is is text and swapped templates, taking up a minimal amount of memory in order to greatly expand game experience. I did actually play nearly all the marks in my last game and did enjoy it, but I really wish it had more substance to it. Adding in an extra guest character on specific hunts was great, and I really wish it was an idea they went with from their original ideas.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Kanno, you're firstly missing the point. Crystal Armor still constitutes amazing end-game equipment that you get right off the bat. You're also forgetting that trading off benefits for others is what FF equipment is all about, especially endgame. I think you're reaching for straws by saying simply because something is not the best, it's not in the same category of ultimate equipment your characters want end-game. You're post is also a red-herring in that you explain why Crystal Armor is not the best in the game without refuting the fact that you begin getting the best equipment in the game shortly after the mid-way point, while not even establishing that Crystal Armor does not fit in that category.

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I'm mostly messing with you cause you know I need to do my obligatory "standing up" for FFVI just as you would do in turn should I say something terribly bad about VII ;)

If you want me to be serious in defending the game then I would simply point out two things. The first point is that the second half of VI is almost completely open ended which is something that is not as common in the series as one would think. The Crystal equipment doesn't become available until about the time you get the airship which is about the point in which the game opens completely up and allows the player to explore as they see fit. If they tried to stick to a progressive equipment system in this environment it forces the player to stay to a strict path or even worse, allows some players to skip to the powerful stuff and ignore the rest in order to jump to godhood as quickly as possible. I don't see how you can be open ended and progressive. Chrono Trigger did a similar set-up since all the optional content nets you Ultimate or end game gear.

The second thing I would like to point out is that VI has a difficulty jump when you get into the WoR. Even with good levels, your crappy spell selection combined with your decent equipment will allow even normal encounters to eat you alive if you are not careful. Its why I always suggest teaching Celes, Sabin, and Edgar all the healing spells before going to the Floating Continent to noobs. To be honest, you need access to great equipment as soon as you can cause the open-ended nature of the Second Act also prevents the developers from making an obvious increasing difficulty curve for the enemy encounters. That's why the second half of the game has more puzzle centric dungeons or theme dungeons like the Phoenix Cave or the Cultist's Tower.

By wishing for progressive growth, you ruin the beauty of the games design.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Something else that's part-minigame and part-chaps my hide was the marks in FFXII. Somewhere along the line it becomes a redundant excuse to draw out the length of the game. They start swapping monster templates with an added touch of color to show how lazy it got. All it is is text and swapped templates, taking up a minimal amount of memory in order to greatly expand game experience. I did actually play nearly all the marks in my last game and did enjoy it, but I really wish it had more substance to it. Adding in an extra guest character on specific hunts was great, and I really wish it was an idea they went with from their original ideas.

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I disagree to a point. I personally found that the Mark Hunts were utilized in a way to show the beauty of the Gambit system as they often require a greater level of strategy than the main story bosses. Like X's Monster Arena, the Mark System is created to show off the battle system and unlike X is available throughout the game so you don't get bored as quickly. If I learned anything from playing XII, its that its one of the few games I don't like over-leveling in as I feel the beauty of the game lies in using strategy to overcome difficult odds. The Mark Hunt provide this as they tend to be 10x nastier than anything else the game throws at you in the main storyline.

I usually find that people who don't like the Gambit system are also individuals who didn't bother with the Mark System. They just powered level and stuck to very simplistic Gambit schemes. Sorry to go on the personal rant but it bugs me when I talk to some of the XII detractors (Not you of course).

On the note about your last statement though. Originally, the team planned on having the player have the ability to hire Clan Mates to help them with the Mark Hunts and I think they even talked about making it a multiplayer experience with allowing a second player to plug in and take control of a secondary unit. Regretfully it was another idea that got thrown out (like the airship battles) due to the game's troubled production. :(

In response to Kanno's last paragraph: that would have been freaking amazing.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

*totally ate faces in the blitzball tournament*

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I only lost the first time I got to that point. Then I learnt about Jecht Shot and have won ever since :D

And agreeing with Quin's post. That would have been so darn awesome :(

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

By wishing for progressive growth, you ruin the beauty of the games design.

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Understood! However, I feel there could have been some creative way to balance this. Even then, I can't chastise the team for things they didn't do. Overall they were able to take the traditional mechanics of FF and implement it in a unique, non-linear way.

I disagree to a point. I personally found that the Mark Hunts were utilized in a way to show the beauty of the Gambit system as they often require a greater level of strategy than the main story bosses. [/QUOTE]

Agreed again. I think it's astonishing that they were able to have possibly the deepest strategy system in an FF where you essentially do nothing and watch your characters. The Gilgamesh hunt went from nearly impossible to relatively easy on different playthroughs where I had essentially the same equipment, simply from having a better understanding of Gambits.

I still think Gilgamesh is a cheap ass cause he has all those blue magic spells... :mad2:

As for the balance issue, I do agree as I feel its the fundamental problem with all of the post FFV titles in the series. There just always seems to come a point in every game where your party becomes almost god like and you know damn well you are no where near the final dungeon.

Also, here is a link to the interview where Minagawa mentions elements that were taken out. The one about airship battles is from another interview and I'll have to search the XII forums for that one...

Actually I tend to like mostly all of the mini games....I become more addicted to them than the main game. Most of the time I dont like them at first like blitzball but then I became tottally in love with it.
I cant even remember one I didnt end up liking...

Another thing I hate is how blue magic is pretty much 99% crap in just about every game =/

I like chocobo breeding, but it's glitchy: when breeding a Wonderful Chocobo with a Black Chocobo, talking to the Wonderful Chocobo first will prevent you from getting a Gold Chocobo. I wasted hours, resetting my game over and over - thinking that I was just unlucky - because I didn't know! Chocobo racing, though, is so cuuute! :kaocheer:

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

A mini-game I just didn't like was Triple Triad. I could just never get into it and I would usually get steamed the few times I'd give it a shot and lose a lot. I guess I've just never given it a fair shake.

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It's best to wait until Squall defeats both Ifrit and Diablos, thus receiving both of their cards! They're good cards, which you can use to easily defeat Zell's mother for Zell's card. With Ifrit, Diablos, and Zell, you'll be invincible! All three can be obtained before the Timber mission (as well as MiniMog and Quistis). =D

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Originally Posted by Kyros

Another thing I hate is how blue magic is pretty much 99% crap in just about every game =/

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Blue Magic is great, especially in FFV and FFIX! I can't really speak for FFVI, because I don't know, but I like having strictly a party of Blue Mages when I play FFV, because many bosses can be taken out in one turn with them or with one spell from them! Blue Mages are awesome!

There's a few good blue magic spells but overall I've just found it kinda pointless to actually try to gather all the spells when there's plenty of other ways that are easier to get everything done, and when you have to be a blue mage class it seems to make me want to mess with it even less.

I generally find Blue Magic more useful than both normal black magic and summons. Yeah it sucks in VIII and X but those games have a whole series of faults in gameplay we don't need to discuss right now. V-VII its just freaking awesome.

As MB mentioned, Blue Mages can literally decimate a third of the bosses in FFV even up to battles in The Rift. Not to mention their use in power leveling job classes in Odin's chamber. They have awesome defensive abilites and crippling status magic that works more often than they should.

Strago's Blue Magic not only makes him one of the best defensive characters in the game but his wind/water magic is incredibly powerful and few enemies have resistance to it and many are weak to one or the other. Not to mention Grand Train is just nasty...

The Enemy Skill materia is my "end all, be all" for VII. Not only does VII give you access to most of the powerful and broken abilites before you even leave the first Disc but most of it makes magic seem useless and makes most of the summons obsolete as well until you get the over powered stuff in Disc 2... White Wind and Mighty Guard are criminally broken in this game and both are fairly easy to get. I don't see why people even bother with magic materia in this game once you leave Midgard.

My biggest problem with Blue Magic is that you essentially need an FAQ to use it properly. This regulates it to something that I would never use on a first play through, as I never use walkthroughs until I get to the end game.

On that note, I dislike how it seems the 'end game' content is completely inaccessible without a walkthrough. When I get to that point in the game I generally like going out to look around and seeing what extra stuff I could do. I don't expect to get all of it without a guide, but I really dislike getting to the end of the game and then immediately firing up the guide and playing through step by step. What happened to extra dungeons instead of mini-games? (min-games take less time to develop, I know I know.....)

I found blue magic to be very useful in FF5, FF7, and FF11.

I hate XI, and when I have enemy skill equipped it just seems like a wasted slot to me in VII. I have it on all my people in my current playthrough only b/c I'm actually going to max 3 of them out for the first time just to say I've done it pretty much. White wind is good, but FFVII's regen is godly so don't really need another heal spell once I have that. Trine's convenient in a few circumstances, but really I felt like it was just to help me speed up the battle b/c I was lazy and didn't want to wait on limit break animations (yeah I'm that lazy sometimes in games lol) even though using limits = higher lv limits. Having the fury status effect was better than enemy skill imo but w/e I'm not saying it's horrible in VII (one I've used it in the most but have messed with it some in others), but I just preferred other stuff over it.

White Wind is useful (and broken) in VII cause it not only heals your whole party but restores their status and since the HP restored is based on the caster's Hp all you need is a simple HP+ materia or high levels to make it heal 4000-9999 every time. That seems far more convenient to me than having each character use Regen.

Mighty Guard is broken cause it cast Wall and Haste on your whole party at half the cost of doing it with normal magic materia. Trine, Beta, Aqualung, and Magic Breath are all overly powerful spells that put most of the standard magic to shame. Really, VII has more good spells than lousy. I stopped using Magic and Summon materia because of it. I only use Command Materia at the end of the game. To be fair, I build my teams for Blitzkriegs. Enemy Skill Materia is far more affective than magic materia and have quick animations to boot.

Limit Break and Ultimate Weapons are still better damage dealers but that's the game's crappy balance issue...

Am I the only one who preferred Tetra Master over Triple Triad?

Yes b/c it was a terribad card game, and the only way you could not randomly get screwed at the end was to go last. With this being said I'm also going to add I didn't care much for tetramaster :)

I used cure+all so only 1 person would cast regen. Everyone had ribbons so I didn't have to worry about status effects. I never needed to worry about how much dmg I took so mighty guard would just be a convenience. I would just cast regen first turn then limit and win lol. 1 kotr cast beat both big Sephiroth forms, which I didn't think would happen vs Safer Sephy but w/e =/

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Originally Posted by sdm42393

Am I the only one who preferred Tetra Master over Triple Triad?

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After learning how to play Tetra Master properly I must say I vastly prefer it. There's still the occasional game where I lose for no reason, but I find it to be much more enjoyable.

Triple Triad was still good though. I just hated how I couldn't have a full collection if I used the cards in Card Mod. And the rules confused me sometimes.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

I used cure+all so only 1 person would cast regen. Everyone had ribbons so I didn't have to worry about status effects. I never needed to worry about how much dmg I took so mighty guard would just be a convenience. I would just cast regen first turn then limit and win lol. 1 kotr cast beat both big Sephiroth forms, which I didn't think would happen vs Safer Sephy but w/e =/

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Ribbons are end game gear and you get White Wind way earlier than Regen unless you seriously grind before getting Cait Sith. I'm not arguing about which is better I'm just saying I think White Wind can easily be considered the best healing spell in the first half of the game. ;)

I really hated Sphere Break in FFX-2...

It punishes you for not having QUICK maths. Im sorry sometimes it takes abit to work things out... *whimpers*

I havent played X2 in a loooong time but from what I remember I LOVED sphere break :D

another thing I dislike (which isnt really anything against a certain game/title in particular) is that recently I started replaying VII and IX, but I get so used to steal being AWESOME in IX only to go back to my VII file and feel bad using it b/c it sucks 90% of the time (the other 10% is pretty nice though)

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Originally Posted by Balthier Rocks

I really hated Sphere Break in FFX-2...

It punishes you for not having QUICK maths. Im sorry sometimes it takes abit to work things out... *whimpers*

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Much like a lot of other minigames punishes you for not having quick reflexes :p.

I thought it was lots of fun!

atm I hate how this is the 3rd midgar zolom Ive fought and he still won't use Beta for my enemy skill materias, only reason I'm not still on 1st is b/c theyre dying to Cid's counterattacks. battles still taking a few mins each though, use the move already wtf -_-

Unequip counter materia?

yeah I unequipped it and now just sitting there for like 10 mins each fight till it kicks someone out of the battle so I kill it and wait for the next zolom, getting stupid, think I'm just gonna go breed chocobos instead =/

it's a situational attack, so just waiting while doing nothing won't do. Equip poor weapons and put yourself on the back row, then attack it and heal it a bit. i also often got hit by beta after having one of my party members knocked out of the fight

use poison on it once as opposed to physical attacks, when it drops to (i believe) 1000HP it uses Beta...

yeah something like that

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Originally Posted by Elly

use poison on it once as opposed to physical attacks, when it drops to (i believe) 1000HP it uses Beta...

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This is correct, he uses Beta only when he's near death.

P.S. Glad to see you trying out Enemy Skill materia. ;)

I know, I use bolt3 to start of sending him to 6-700 hp left then sit there till he knocks someone out of the fight 10 mins later. I normally just find stuff to do on the internet while regen's up and keep an eye on the screen to see if he uses beta. I tried about 12+ times earlier I think before saying screw it I'll get it later and working on chocobos atm.

Speaking of enemy skill here's something I guess I dont mind but I think it's retarded and stupid. Why are there 4 of them when I only ever need 3 since thats how many people I have in battle?

I always figure it was for the final battle with Sephiroth so you can have one party have a dedicated Blue Mage besides your main.

One of the enemy skill materias is miss able, so maybe they wanted to leave you with the ability to have 3 even if you missed the one in the ShinRa tower.

Yeah, that was I was going to suggest too.

i actualy think they never really intended for you to change out materia all the time, every time you change out characters, hence the reason everybody gets to fight in the final battle...

I think they did, considering the enormous amount of materia and how easy it is to exchange materia with other teammates, even if they aren't in your party.

I hate the chocobo breeding guy telling me I still have to wait when I breeded the chocobo, fed the new one, took it to the races to win 9 times in a row to get to S class, went and got 2 ultimate weapons (one being Tifa's which takes several mins b/c of the running around), and spending 30+ more mins waiting for the stupid zolom to use beta (probably spent over 3 hrs total waiting on that stupid snake).

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Balthier Rocks

I really hated Sphere Break in FFX-2...

It punishes you for not having QUICK maths. Im sorry sometimes it takes abit to work things out... *whimpers*

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Much like a lot of other minigames punishes you for not having quick reflexes :p.

I thought it was lots of fun!

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Yeah, I really liked Sphere Break for giving a mini-game with a focus other than pure reflex testing.

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I know, I use bolt3 to start of sending him to 6-700 hp left then sit there till he knocks someone out of the fight 10 mins later. I normally just find stuff to do on the internet while regen's up and keep an eye on the screen to see if he uses beta. I tried about 12+ times earlier I think before saying screw it I'll get it later and working on chocobos atm.

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He only uses Beta when he's at low health, and he only uses it as a counterattack. You have to get him to low health, and then attack him. He never uses it if you just wait.

I hated trying to get all the legendary weapons for FFX. The things they made you do for the sigils...such torture!

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Originally Posted by WK

The Enemy Skill materia is my "end all, be all" for VII. Not only does VII give you access to most of the powerful and broken abilites before you even leave the first Disc but most of it makes magic seem useless and makes most of the summons obsolete as well until you get the over powered stuff in Disc 2... White Wind and Mighty Guard are criminally broken in this game and both are fairly easy to get. I don't see why people even bother with magic materia in this game once you leave Midgard.

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Haha, I made a couple of threads about that very subject years ago in the FF7 forum. I took the same position - the outside of the very early game, Enemy Skills completely outclass magic materia, and later in the game even outclass most summons. Mighty Guard is a ridiculous spell to get in disc 1 and makes everything after that absurdly more easy.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

I hate the chocobo breeding guy telling me I still have to wait when I breeded the chocobo, fed the new one, took it to the races to win 9 times in a row to get to S class, went and got 2 ultimate weapons (one being Tifa's which takes several mins b/c of the running around), and spending 30+ more mins waiting for the stupid zolom to use beta (probably spent over 3 hrs total waiting on that stupid snake).

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The waiting period is measured by the number of battles your characters are in - not actual game time!

Sphere Break.