Frustration With Fighters Online?

Ok, firstly I will say I'm not a hardcore fighter player (ie. will not master the game and learn every single move and 10 hit combo etc).

Thought this was interesting, though I'm not concerned about lag, rather what he says before it.
» Why Online Gaming Has Ruined Fighting Games.

Also there was another article I found a month ago on Soul Calibur 4 specifically, expressing similar thoughts (but lost the link) such as its such a varied mix, mostly noobs or insanely good players.

But, lately I've notice while playing Soul Calibur 4 online, I'm getting really frustrated and bored with the game. Its the same thing, either fight cheap noobs that spam 1 or 2 moves as fast as they can allowing for an annoying match, or against those that are ridiculously good, that are impossible to lay a finger on. This being repeated over and over is not fun, now I get bored and frustrated often walk away and don't bother. I mean its not every day I want to play hardcore and try super hard to fight.

I've met a few people online who play Talim (SC4) and it is ridiculous to play against, once they get going there combos just go on fo ever, this really pisses me off. We are playing for fun, yet how is having your ass beaten without a chance of even getting up or to block fun? Whats really funny is that these players will continue to do all those combos etc even if I walk away, and think they are so good.

What also annoys the hell out of me is, when you get messages (mostly from noobs) saying "you got owned, you're sh*t" sorta messages, when you tell them there is more to the game than pressing 1 button as fast as they can. Often follwed by stupid insults about your mum and other odd things...

Ok, between the 2 extremes of players, has online play made fighters somewhat less enjoyable? Do you get frustrated playing fighting games online?


And please don't reply "you suck and need to learn to play properly", I find that annoying also. I don't want to sit down and spend countless hours to master every move in the book so I can beat everyone, I have better things to do.... I want to play for some fun

This is exactly why I haven't been eager to try online fighting games xD

My brother and I totally got into fights IRL over cheap ass combos, btw.

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Originally Posted by asukaevaunit02

What also annoys the hell out of me is, when you get messages (mostly from noobs) saying "you got owned, you're sh*t" sorta messages, when you tell them there is more to the game than pressing 1 button as fast as they can. Often follwed by stupid insults about your mum and other odd things...

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I'll agree that that is stupid, though it isn't something I've ever seen on the PS3. Not saying it never happens there, but stories like that seem to be about experiences on Xbox Live more than anything. Regardless of where it happens though it would be nice if everyone playing online had some class.

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And please don't reply "you suck and need to learn to play properly", I find that annoying also. I don't want to sit down and spend countless hours to master every move in the book so I can beat everyone, I have better things to do.... I want to play for some fun

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I'm not going to say you suck, but if you're getting beaten by moves you see as cheap in a well balanced fighting game then you have two choices. Either take ten minutes to learn what the counter is and how to do it or stop playing the game online at all. I've never seen a case in a legitimately well balanced fighting game where there is a move that is so broken that there is no way to counter it. If you don't want to take the time to master the game and learn the counters then fine, but you shouldn't be playing online when there are obviously plenty of people out there who play these games because they like to learn them and improve. If you just want to play "for fun" as you put it (and your definition of fun in this case isn't going to match other people's necessarily) then that's what Arcade mode and friendly games with your friends are for.

If you're going to play online without taking the time to really learn the game because that's not what you consider fun, that's fair enough. Just don't complain when you get beaten by someone with more knowledge of the game than you have (even if the extent of their knowledge is knowing one move or combo that your average player doesn't know how to counter effectively). It's like playing an FPS and complaining because someone is a better shot than you. It happens. Get over it.

Seriously, if you don't want to go out of your way to become a better player, you should stay out of the online matchmaking, because you're going to get torn apart by people who play competitively all the time. If you just want to have fun, play against a computer at a difficulty you're comfortable with. It's that easy.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

I'll agree that that is stupid, though it isn't something I've ever seen on the PS3. Not saying it never happens there, but stories like that seem to be about experiences on Xbox Live more than anything. Regardless of where it happens though it would be nice if everyone playing online had some class.

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I've played Soul Calibur IV and UFC Undisputed, two of the games mentioned, on Xbox Live, and I have received precisely three messages. All of them congratulating me on my victory and telling me I am good. :shobon:

Playing any game with strangers isn't really all that fun. If you want to grind for achievements, go for it, but if you really want a good time, play with friends, or a group of people from an online community you visit.

Lag's my main issue. I hate most of the matches I get on Tekken 6 online because occassionally you'll get some random laggy connection and I would lose to a player that's way below my level because it's hard to dodge, block, or escape something with the lag. It also throws off my juggle combos as well.

I don't like throw abusers in the game either in Tekken it's hard to escape throws for one because there's three escape methods. You have square, triangle, and triangle square. You can sort of see throws in the game when they're coming, and can determine the button press to escape them based on the opponent's hands, the deal with that is that the hand motions flip when you switch sides and some throws are deceiving on which button you have to press to escape. Not to mention it's a lot easier in this game to abuse them over SF4. In SF4 I can mostly determine when an opponent's going to throw. For one they'll be close to you and through all the countless Kens and Ryus I've played online they have patterns when they're going to throw mostly in a combo. Another thing with it is that in SF you can stay a good distance away from your opponent and mostly avoid it, while in Tekken practically everyone has to stay in close range.

I don't really like a lot of juggle abusers either. That just justifies the many criticisms that Tekken is just a juggling competition. I didn't even really even know that people did that until I started with 6.

I don't play fighters online specifically to completely stay away from lag issues, I already play FPS online and the lag is crippling sometimes. It really bothers me when someone is lagging out my Gears match and then that team just runs around charging their chainsaw. :mad2:

I have a couple of cheap friends at Smash though, which is the fighter I play the most. I have one who will do his best to avoid all combat from the beginning of the match until everyone is down to 1 stock or there is only one other fighter left. It's a pretty gay way to play, but he's a legitimately good player and probably the best in the group.

I play some fighting games on a tournament level in my local metropolitan area and I understand what you are saying about lag. It is a necessary evil for me because I rarely meet with my friends to play heavy gaming sessions in person.

There are some solutions. GGPO is a networking library that game developers can use to add networked gameplay support to arcade style games. I play Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Street Fighter Alpha 3 over GGPO when I can, and I am able to play with anyone in the world with very little latency issues. The technology was acquired by Capcom, but they have yet to use it for any mainstream title.

If this technology was adopted by more fighting games, then the issue with lag would be much less than it is now.

I've played SC4 and SF4 online a good bit, and never had problems like that. I came against the occasional move spamming nub, but I could beat them, and I'm usually good enough to deal with someone who is very good. My only real problem was, in fact, lag.

I love fighting online. Still, as mentioned above some players can do the most annoying things. For example in Tekken 6, I've seen some people abuse the same move over and over. Law & Alisa are the main culprits here. Almost everyone picks them because they are user friendly, and amateurs can get to a decent grade by just doing that. Also, grabbing. People can tend to grab an awful lot and it just gets annoying.

But I enjoy playing online because I believe it makes me a better player, and in a strange way its a little important to me because I love Tekken, regardless of how bad the lag can be online. If anyone wants a game with me online just holla. Currently ranked 12th in the world with Yoshimitsu. :smug:

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Originally Posted by Roogle

I play some fighting games on a tournament level in my local metropolitan area and I understand what you are saying about lag. It is a necessary evil for me because I rarely meet with my friends to play heavy gaming sessions in person.

There are some solutions. GGPO is a networking library that game developers can use to add networked gameplay support to arcade style games. I play Street Fighter Alpha 2 and Street Fighter Alpha 3 over GGPO when I can, and I am able to play with anyone in the world with very little latency issues. The technology was acquired by Capcom, but they have yet to use it for any mainstream title.

If this technology was adopted by more fighting games, then the issue with lag would be much less than it is now.

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Freaking this! This has been one of the things that every fighting game maker needs to get. GGPO basically can hide the lag alot better than every other netcode to date. Its as if there is no lag at all against the majority of opponents. You can play someone in England while living in WC USA, and still play just fine.

GGPO trumps all other netcodes to date imo.

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If you just want to have fun, play against a computer at a difficulty you're comfortable with. It's that easy.

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Part of the fun in fighting games is playing another human opponent that can adapt to you. So CPU is usually given very very little weight in fighting games. A better alternative is just play with friends online exclusively.

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I'm not going to say you suck, but if you're getting beaten by moves you see as cheap in a well balanced fighting game then you have two choices. Either take ten minutes to learn what the counter is and how to do it or stop playing the game online at all. I've never seen a case in a legitimately well balanced fighting game where there is a move that is so broken that there is no way to counter it.

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I agree with this as well. If you play against another opponent, you can't just go through the game without thinking because the human will adapt to what you do in the game. With any fighting game theres always things you have to take time out on and figure out...or just stop playing because you don't want to take some time out.

"Cheap" moves are always counterable...always. Any good fighting game always has a way out, just gotta think or look it up. It just feels to me, you are complaining that you are losing.

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Ok, between the 2 extremes of players, has online play made fighters somewhat less enjoyable? Do you get frustrated playing fighting games online?

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Sometimes the latency/netcodes piss me off if they aren't GGPO because i do silly things. But overall i never take online seriously due to the fact that i have arcades and offline competition to play against which is vastly superior to online play in terms of quality players and latency issues(which is 0!). I do understand though that not everyone is lucky enough to be in these conditions and online is all they have for playing another human.

But the times i do play online i either dislike the lag on SFIV and do something else, or i enjoy the leisure time. Trolls never really get to me, especially if you are armed with the knowledge that trolling to get you angry is a tactic in itself.

At first I thought this was going to be a thread about lag.

Well, to echo the advice given here, and even though it probably sounds like lame advice, you just have to "get better" in order to overcome cheap tactics online. Online fighting games can be pretty competitive; if you want to just chill and have fun matches it's best to play with friends or find a local arcade.

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I've played Soul Calibur IV and UFC Undisputed, two of the games mentioned, on Xbox Live, and I have received precisely three messages. All of them congratulating me on my victory and telling me I am good.

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The people on XBL are pretty courteous to me too. I often get a GG message or usually always a response to one of my own.

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But I enjoy playing online because I believe it makes me a better player,

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I agree. I don't think I'd ever be as good as I am at BlazBlue if I wasn't forced to get better from online competition. I'm a pretty average player, but I'm still way better than I'd try to be just playing "for fun", and for that I'm grateful for online play.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by asukaevaunit02

What also annoys the hell out of me is, when you get messages (mostly from noobs) saying "you got owned, you're sh*t" sorta messages, when you tell them there is more to the game than pressing 1 button as fast as they can. Often follwed by stupid insults about your mum and other odd things...

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I'll agree that that is stupid, though it isn't something I've ever seen on the PS3. Not saying it never happens there, but stories like that seem to be about experiences on Xbox Live more than anything. Regardless of where it happens though it would be nice if everyone playing online had some class.

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The only time I've gotten a message like that on PSN was because I left a match halfway through. It was Tiger Woods.... :( I guess I kinda deserved it.

I've only played MvC2 online a few times, and I was surprised that I wasn't getting destroyed by total gods of the game. I don't think many people play it, but I haven't really had the "god or noob" dilemma.

I love playing online. I used to play Bleach: Dark Souls online all the time. The one thing that annoyed me more than anything were the turtles. Block and run away all the time and you have to chase them and they hit you while your chasing them.

And I love fighting against super good people. Even when I know them down just 10% I feel like a badass. Constantly getting your ass kicked is gonna pay off eventually. I need someone to play UNL with.

I get frustrated when people cheese, but aside of that I love playing fighting games online. I had dreams about being able to fight random strangers somewhere else in Street Fighter when I was a kid. Now that's a reality. :D

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Originally Posted by Vermachtnis

I love playing online. I used to play Bleach: Dark Souls online all the time. The one thing that annoyed me more than anything were the turtles. Block and run away all the time and you have to chase them and they hit you while your chasing them.

And I love fighting against super good people. Even when I know them down just 10% I feel like a badass. Constantly getting your ass kicked is gonna pay off eventually. I need someone to play UNL with.

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I'd LOVE to play UNL with someone online!

How do we do so? (warning, I lag a tonne, so you'll totally win :D!)

Touhou is more obscure than you guys think it is. I have 'UNL' but I didn't even know what you guys were talking about until I looked it up. Use full names! The game isn't even *called* 'Unthinkable Natural Law' which makes it even worse :P You don't see me in here talking about the virtues of CGoH vs UAS...but I haven't posted here.

That said, I just played some UAS*just playin'... Tatsunoko vs Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars. (Cross Generation of Heroes was the 2008 Japanese version of the game) online, and... I think I really need to get a ethernet adapter for my Wii.

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Originally Posted by Markus. D

I'd LOVE to play UNL with someone online!

How do we do so? (warning, I lag a tonne, so you'll totally win :D!)

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In Vs. Network you can host or join a game. To join you need to put the Hoster's IP Address. Here's mine: 076.122.252.073.10800. And of course to host the other person needs your IP address. I haven't tried it with Unthinkable Natural Law yet, but it worked with me and my friend in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.

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Originally Posted by Vermachtnis

I haven't tried it with Unthinkable Natural Law yet, but it worked with me and my friend in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.

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:thumbsup:

I know Momiji has these games as well and is more into them than I am.

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Originally Posted by Vermachtnis

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Originally Posted by Markus. D

I'd LOVE to play UNL with someone online!

How do we do so? (warning, I lag a tonne, so you'll totally win :D!)

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In Vs. Network you can host or join a game. To join you need to put the Hoster's IP Address. Here's mine: 076.122.252.073.10800. And of course to host the other person needs your IP address. I haven't tried it with Unthinkable Natural Law yet, but it worked with me and my friend in Scarlet Weather Rhapsody.

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Generally speaking, it's only an expansion... so I'd think it'd function similar, oh we'll definetly need to have a good fun playing this :D!

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Originally Posted by Lionx

Freaking this! This has been one of the things that every fighting game maker needs to get. GGPO basically can hide the lag alot better than every other netcode to date. Its as if there is no lag at all against the majority of opponents. You can play someone in England while living in WC USA, and still play just fine.

GGPO trumps all other netcodes to date imo.

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Like I said, Capcom acquired the code for GGPO, but they have yet to use it in a fighting game. The first game to be packaged with GGPO netcode will be Final Fight: Double Impact.

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Originally Posted by Momiji

If you just want to have fun, play against a computer at a difficulty you're comfortable with.

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This does not really help serious fighting game players. If you are playing for fun, then, by all means, play against the computer, but if you're like me and you go to local tournaments, the computer will definitely not be enough to train!

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Originally Posted by asukaevaunit02

And please don't reply "you suck and need to learn to play properly", I find that annoying also. I don't want to sit down and spend countless hours to master every move in the book so I can beat everyone, I have better things to do.... I want to play for some fun

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Sadly, I don't have better things to do. :D

I do enjoy learning juggles, studying frame data and YouTubing fights between the pros and idolising them. That is my idea of fun.

But I agree with the rest of your post. I don't have the best connection, but it's more than good enough for online play for games of other genres, but in the realm of fighting games, where frame precision timing is required, it's a big let down.

I can't trust that my juggles in Tekken will work because often, I launch and then they fall to the ground before my character feebly punches the air. I can't trust that my Guard Impacts in Soul Calibur are going to work because often the game doesn't register what I've pressed until I've got a face full of destined sword. It is irritating, and retreating to playing a super hard computer isn't the same.

Back in the days of Tekken 5 and Soul Calibur 2 (the last to be available in arcades), I used to frequent arcades because the feeling of beating a real person is better than finishing any single player story mode of any other game. Even losing to someone really good has a certain appeal to it. With online play, I don't get any of that. I don't win as often as I feel I should and when I lose, it usually isn't to someone who would've been good enough to beat me in the arcades.

So I still go to arcades and waste my coin, and I deeply regret purchasing Tekken 6 for PS3.

Namco, if you're reading this, Soul Calibur 4 for arcades plz.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

I don't really like a lot of juggle abusers either. That just justifies the many criticisms that Tekken is just a juggling competition. I didn't even really even know that people did that until I started with 6.

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Just don't get launched. When I first started playing Tekken seriously, I used to try and throw out juggles all the time, but I've since learnt that they're only good for pushing aside relative newbies. I use Lee predominantly and uf+4 is a staple launcher of his. It's quick and there's a jumping implement to it which means it crushes lows, but it's also very unsafe. If you played me and blocked it, I'd be at a massive frame disadvantage, you could even launch and juggle me as punishment for my audacity. And I'd be reluctant to use the move again. If you get hit by the launcher and subsequent juggle 5 times over 2 rounds, what's going to dissuade me from using it a sixth time in the following round? Pros (blokes who play tournaments) don't get juggled because they know how to not put themselves in a situation where they can be launched, stunned or grounded. Of course, they can't play entire matches in their shells and eventually, opportunities for the opponent will arise, but this is why serious players of fighting games find them so fun, it's as much a game about fighting as it is risk management, psychology and memory.

Online SCIV depends on certain characters and speed of connection for myself.

I can mow down others by spamming simple, overpowering moves with characters like Cervantes and Astaroth... but I fail with characters I've overstudied and am quite good offline with.


Astaroth = I can plow in without much worry, especially in caged matches.
Cervantes = Staying far back and spamming flying/teleportation/gunshotmoves.

Mains
Voldo = needs to be dancing through stances and zoning with caution to hit 'em where it hurts the moment the time is right, postioning needs (facing to and away from) included, also don't suit online play
Setsuka = I can't seem to start a proper combo due to lag and suffer counters because I'm not excecuting at the correct time.

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Originally Posted by Markus. D

Online SCIV depends on certain characters and speed of connection for myself.

I can mow down others by spamming simple, overpowering moves with characters like Cervantes and Astaroth... but I fail with characters I've overstudied and am quite good offline with.

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Yeah, my mains are Cassandra and Siegfried but the former is pretty much out the window online. Can't crouch dash/Angel Step properly. And then I observe a match with someone with a better connection literally flipping out with Taki and I die a little on the inside.

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Originally Posted by Mo-Nercy

Just don't get launched. When I first started playing Tekken seriously, I used to try and throw out juggles all the time, but I've since learnt that they're only good for pushing aside relative newbies. I use Lee predominantly and uf+4 is a staple launcher of his. It's quick and there's a jumping implement to it which means it crushes lows, but it's also very unsafe. If you played me and blocked it, I'd be at a massive frame disadvantage, you could even launch and juggle me as punishment for my audacity. And I'd be reluctant to use the move again. If you get hit by the launcher and subsequent juggle 5 times over 2 rounds, what's going to dissuade me from using it a sixth time in the following round? Pros (blokes who play tournaments) don't get juggled because they know how to not put themselves in a situation where they can be launched, stunned or grounded. Of course, they can't play entire matches in their shells and eventually, opportunities for the opponent will arise, but this is why serious players of fighting games find them so fun, it's as much a game about fighting as it is risk management, psychology and memory.

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Good post. For instance when I'm hungover I lose alot more then when I'm fine for those very reasons. Examples could be Law's or Brian's tripping move that many users online abuse so often. With a stable mind I could block them with ease but when I'm hungover, not so much. Same with understanding your opponents game. If I'm fighting a decent character I usually try and let the first round last long to semi-figure out my characters means of trying to juggle. Because I use Yoshimitsu, there is so many ways to attack, the only problem is trying to find a way to use them all in harmony. So far I'm doing ok (at Avenger status), but I think I have the potential to go on further. I've beaten Conquerors before, and haven't come up against a higher rank than that. Having said that I could get beaten by some noob tactics (especially Law) that If I were better equipped with Yoshi I'd pummel them. *shrugs* Just all a part of getting to know the game better I guess.

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Originally Posted by Roogle

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Originally Posted by Momiji

If you just want to have fun, play against a computer at a difficulty you're comfortable with.

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This does not really help serious fighting game players. If you are playing for fun, then, by all means, play against the computer, but if you're like me and you go to local tournaments, the computer will definitely not be enough to train!

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I said that to the OP because he was talking about not wanting to learn combos and stuff and yet complained that online play ruins fighting games because noobs spam moves and experts are too good, etc. I mean if you were actually serious, you'd sit down and get with the program and start practicing combos and whatnot, right? But he also said he just wanted to play for fun, so I said set up a CPU opponent at a difficulty he could handle and just go nuts :P