http://images.wikia.com/backofthenet...a/Wanchope.jpg
http://www.footballfancast.com/wp-co...hope300_pa.jpg
http://millenniumcup.webs.com/Wan.jpg
glory glory paulo wanchope. :love:
http://images.wikia.com/backofthenet...a/Wanchope.jpg
http://www.footballfancast.com/wp-co...hope300_pa.jpg
http://millenniumcup.webs.com/Wan.jpg
glory glory paulo wanchope. :love:
With transfers already happening and the fixture list out next week, may as well start up a thread for the coming season as suggested.
So what do you hope for in the transfer market this summer? What do you think will happen next season? Man Utd to win the title again, or Chelsea/Man City to challenge? Will Arsenal recover from contriving to finish 4th in a two horse race, and can Liverpool continue their progress under Daglish? And what of the promoted sides etc. Also, will Barcelona continue to bulldoze all before them.
Begin!
I fixed the thread. You're welcome. :jess:
I think we could see WBA make a push for the title, now that they finally have a manager who is capable of it.
Man these numbers are all over the place. In one spot I read, 13 mill plus N'Gog, in another I read 20 mill plus N'Gog, and in still another I read 18 mill and NO N'Gog. My head hurts.
One thing is certain, it's a nice feeling that Liverpool can buy players without having to sell first, as has been the case for the last few years.
Take care all.
these must be titled "The not fun to watch football" thread from now on :mad2:
The Phil Jones transfer fee seems to be going down with every report. Earlier I heard 17 million, then sky said 15 & now BBC say it's 12.
No wonder everyone buys foreign, English are just not affordable...crazy money.
Also, smurf off Bertram.
Newcastle have Ben Arfa coming back so that will be like a new signing. I doubt we will have any major signings just some bargain basement fillers. Though I said that last year and Cheik Tiote became our player of the season imo. A decent striker and centre back is all I ask for.
Alan Smith and Nile Ranger can bugger off.
United for the League again.
Transfer record absolutely SMASHED with Danny Graham for 3.5M.
No seriously I wasn't expecting that bearing in mind how we're probably the poorest team to ever grace the Premier League. Can't blame us, we were penniless and couldn't pay the electricity bill 8 years ago!
I don't think you're (or indeed will be) anywhere near holding that title - Derby's 11 point haul a few years ago still reigns supreme (and I expect you to top that points total easily), as does one of Sunderland's more wretched seasons. Also, Bradford's second and final season in the Premiership, how they lasted two seasons at all was inexplicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I'm happy with Phil Jones but am unsure just how much gametime he'll get unless we're selling Jonny Evans or using Jones as a DM. I remember watching Phil Jones' first ever PL game - debut against Chelsea at the age of 18, bossed the Chelsea players and got man of the match. Raved on about him to my mate at work the next day and, in FM2011, signed him up and he captained my side (Nottingham Forest) to eventually win every trophy in a single season at one point. Further decreasing the realism of FM, but all the same, I like the guy. But yeah... don't know how he'll get much gametime and he was getting a lot of it at Blackburn.
If we get De Gea, I'll be happy enough with our keeper situation but would still like for us to possibly keep PIG purely because I'm not hugely comfortable with the idea of having no keepers with experience of our players available for us should De Gea struggle at any point or get an injury. Lindegaard has never convinced for me, although to be fair he's not been given a huge chance. I suspect PIG will be off to West Brom, though, so oh well.
Think it's time that Brown left our books, he's just not going to get any gametime these days. Would like to see Gibson go to a mid-table side for his own good but don't expect him to leave. O'Shea rumoured to depart alongside those two to Sunderland, though, and I would be extremely gutted if he left because John O'Shea is a proper legend, and none of you can ever convince me otherwise. ;)
I'd really like for us to strengthen our midfield, though. A left winger and a creative midfielder would suit me nicely, and perhaps a defensive midfielder on top of that. Cleverley may be staying with us this season and can fit either the left wing or the creative midfielder and I rate him higher than Gibson (please take his spot and send Gibson away, SAF), however the DM position left by Hargreaves is available still and perhaps Jones will fill that in. I'd really like for an out-and-out left winger, although I have no idea who would be suitable. Sanchez is rumoured at £30m, although I do wonder if that's too much for SAF's liking. Modric and Sneijder both rumoured for the CM role and either would make me happy enough. Kagawa also linked and his goals from midfield would be welcomed.
Happy with our strikeforce. If Berbatov goes and Welbeck comes in, I'll still be somewhat happy although still a little concerned at Welbeck's lack of experience... although I know he's still definitely a good player. But Hernandez and Rooney will undoubtedly remain first choice.
I meant poorest financially, but thanks for the faith!Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayiI don't think you're (or indeed will be) anywhere near holding that title - Derby's 11 point haul a few years ago still reigns supreme (and I expect you to top that points total easily), as does one of Sunderland's more wretched seasons. Also, Bradford's second and final season in the Premiership, how they lasted two seasons at all was inexplicable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Well I'd still say Wimbledon were shorter on cash than Swansea!
Blackpool have been the poorest team in the PL, their poorness will never be equalled again.
Fixture list out tomorrow.
Opening weekend fixtures (13th-14th August)
Premiership - 13th/14th August
Blackburn v Wolves
Fulham v Aston Villa
Liverpool v Sunderland
Man City v Swansea
Newcastle v Arsenal
QPR v Bolton
Stoke v Chelsea
Tottenham v Everton
West Brom v Man Utd
Wigan v Norwich
Oh dear :( Followed by Liverpool at home and Man Utd away - so that's one point by the end of August...
Quote:
Originally Posted by first game of the season
Quote:
Originally Posted by last game of the season
Sunday 13th May confirmed for biggest and possibly most hostile day in EoFF Football thread
Latest news!
Vilas-Boas the new Chelsea manager.
Ashley Young to Man Utd for £15 million or so.
Great Britain (or 10 English players plus Gareth Bale) football team to probably play at next year's Olympics. Er... maybe.
Copa America starts in July, might watch that.
If this man is the closest thing to Mourinho we'll ever get, he has my complete support.
Thats 2 managers Sir Bobby Robson has created for Chelsea, he should of told them about Toon.
Hmmm. Ashley Young? Will be interesting, I'm reserving judgement. Not sure if he's what we really need or not. Desperate for us to sign one more CM. We have Giggs getting on in years, Scholes retired, Hargreaves out and apparently Gibson is looking at other clubs as well (good). So yeah, Anderson/Fletcher/Carrick/Giggs is nice and all, but we need a little more than that.
England ranked 4th in the world - got to love the FIFA rankings.
Ha, yeah. Let's face it, though, the only change that matters is that New Zealand is now ranked 97, somehow falling 37 places. This is insane. What the hell happened. :( Losing to Paraguay, Mexico and Australia, countries which were surely ranked well above us, shouldn't mean we drop that far!
Hmph. We're still the only unbeaten team at the most recent World Cup!
You think that's bad for New Zealand, when it comes to qualifying for the next World Cup there's going to be a random draw to decide who the Oceania winners (i.e. New Zealand) will playoff against to reach the World Cup, and it could be a team from Asia, Concacaf or South America - would be pretty harsh on NZ if it winds up being the latter.
Uh oh. :( Oh well, it's a long time away yet.
I think they'd have it tough whomever they face, as CONCACAF have some decent teams, like Mexico and (whisper it)the Americans, and even Asia has the Japs and the Koreans, and who's forgetting the mighty Qatar!
To be fair, those teams will probably get through to the world cup anyway. We'd be facing the likes of Bahrain from Asia (going by the last time we had to qualify), but if it's one of the Americas it could be a team like Colombia or Honduras.
I know. Surely we should be FIRST. This is an insult to ROONEY, TERRY, JEFF HURST and all TRUE LIONS. Also I now work for The Sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
A Liverpool supporter working for The Sun? *universe explodes*Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticI know. Surely we should be FIRST. This is an insult to ROONEY, TERRY, JEFF HURST and all TRUE LIONS. Also I now work for The Sun.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
No of course not you big silly. Also, I hope you keep Fabregas!
England were too high as it was before they ended up where they are now, but the whole ranking system FIFA has is pants on head stupid (much like everything they do topical joke hurr). Brazil are 5th, non-WC qualifying Croatia is 8th, and according to FIFA, the 15th best international side in the world is...Montenegro. Burkina Faso, where they no doubt practice football with severed heads, trump Cameroon by 11 places at 37th.
It's because it's all based on recent results, and you get more ranking points for beating European or South American teams etc, and presumably it's skewed towards competitive games too. Montenegro are unbeaten in eight games (of which six were wins), which may explain their meteoric rise. Burkina Faso are above Cameroon as they've won all their ACN qualifying games, whereas Cameroon have won one out of four and are now unlikely to qualify.
Basically, s**t makes no sense in the great scheme of things, it's just cribbed off the most recent bunch of games.
BBC Sport - Chelsea's Ashley Cole says 'judge me by my football'
Yeah, mate, I'll judge your footballing abilities on your footballing ability. I'll judge what kind of personal impression you make if you ever meet me and make a personal impression. And I'll judge how much of an absolute prick you are on how much of an absolute prick you are. :)
Young is a good signing for United because he generally plays on the left. It'll allow Nani to shift to the right wing more often, where I think he is a better player. Phil Jones will be a good player in the future, but am also bleak that O'Shea is on his way. Such a legend.
United definitely need another midfielder with energy and creativity. Anderson/Fletcher/Park fall in the energy category (although Anderson is Brazilian and young, so there is still hope) and Carrick can be creative (sometimes, when he's not being useless or playing a million square balls), but we need a combination of the two. Modric would be perfect but kudos to Spurs for saying, "Lad, you're not going anywhere." Besides, Chelsea would probably have signed him, so works out best for United.
That leaves Nasri and Sneidjer. I'd prefer Nasri because I think he is more of a team player than Sneidjer, who is probably best in a free-roaming position.
Tevez is a joke. Tell his daughters and ex-partner/wife/stripper/whatever-she-is that if they like the 250k he makes a week and would like to continue liking it, they need to move to Manchester. Or even London. It's not like London is the worst place in the world. He just wants to engineer a move and I like City's attitude towards his declaration.
It'll be interested who Chelsea go for. It looks like they'll get Falcao from Porto, meaning Drogba might be on his way, and another defender in the shape of Dann or Cahill. Maybe AVB is over Terry.
Charlie Adams isn't a bad signing for Liverpool, but I don't think he is quite Champions League level (which is where I'd hope Liverpool want to be). And they also have a glut of above-average central midfielders. But maybe a Gerrard Adams central midfield could work (I just feel that Adams isn't mobile enough, but hey).
And Arsenal are just useless. Clichy leaving isn't that much of a problem; Gibbs is a better player in my opinion and Clichy isn't world class. But they've lost out on their Argentinean replacement for Fabregas and seem to be twiddling thumbs. Yes, Gervinho is decent, but strikers aren't your problem. And the defence - seriously Arsene, get on your horse and do something. And maybe swap Arshavin for Mata, although I still rate Andriy as a class act.
City on the other hand are being very quiet. Maybe they've got a surprise coming.
EDIT: Regarding FM's realism, I signed Giles Barnes and he was a central midfield genius for United. In real life, he is now out of contract.
I'd always assumed Adam would sign for United and be the heir to Paul Scholes (or at least replace Carrick! Certainly not a United standard player), so I am pleased we have him. We can't attract the Champions League level signings yet, though, because, well, we're not in the Champions League. :shobon: Baby steps. Our recovery isn't going to happen overnight.
Also as much as I'd love to say "Ha ha smurf Arsenal they're finished", they never finish outside the top four no matter how much it seems like they're falling apart at the seams. I'd like it to happen, but it won't. They'll be in the top four.
You all have no idea how gutted I am that O'Shealooks to be leavinghas left. :(
Do you remember the 03/04 season (I think) when he was our first-choice left-back and scored all those goals from corners? Or when he chipped the goalkeeper in the last Arsenal-United game at Highbury?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I'd be lying if I said I totally remembered that. But I've always (tongue-in-cheek) insisted that he was the best player in the world and he only plays in defensive positions because if he was playing in an attacking position he'd be too good. He has to dumb down his game because he's so modest that he doesn't want the entire world singing his name day-in, day-out. And he has to pretend to get injured to avoid scientists studying him for his freakishly good fitness and invincibili-- okay, you get the idea. So now my mates are going to constantly laugh at me about how we sold the best player in the world. Dammit. xD
But seriously, such a freaking good guy. I can only assume that season you're talking about is the one that he scored 4 goals in 5 attempts (5th also on target). And him playing in goal. And as a striker. I've definitely seen him in every position, I know that much. But such a great attitude and a proper loyal player - #26 in Manchester United's all time top player list, one behind Beckham. If he played around twenty more games for us, he would have been in manutd.com's "Legends" page for most appearances (the top 21 are listed). Sucks he's leaving and I do wonder exactly who our fourth fullback is going to be next season. I hope it's not straight to Evans/Smalling/Jones once Rafael/Fabio/Evra are out of the picture. We have no tall/defensive option for those trickier ties now. Well, none that are natural in such positions, anyway. Not even De Laet, he's already moved on loan for the season. Hrm.
He also was (or could still be) the only player in the Premier League to have a 100% shots to shots-on-target ratio. And here is the video.
YouTube - Arsenal - Manchester United 2-4
Ahaha, yes, I do remember that one after watching it. :) Awesome memories.
Ahaha. Yes, pretty much. Think we need both a fullback and a creative midfielder, but doubt like hell it'll be Modric. Not sure it'll even be anyone obvious, but we'll have to wait and see.
>Look at flowcharts
>Pretty funny reading, continue
>Why have I not seen this website before, it's comedy gold
>Start to notice articles not about football
>Flowchart: Support the strikes
>"Are you sure you want to delete Surreal Football from your history?"
>It was good while it lasted
Apart from United, who actually are going to sign that central midfielder. Also hope SAF sees Hargreaves training video and brings him back because that bloke is a football genius. Besides, he can't be worse than Owen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Televised games until the end of November confirmed:
BBC SPORT | Football | Premier League | Fixtures
Flowchart: Arsenal's transfer strategy | Surreal Football
Wow, it's getting more and more accurate.
i cannot wait for the premier league this year!!!.......... oh wait thats right i forgot were not in it this year................
They'll probably hit the top-right block by the end of the week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
No way, we'll drag out the Fabregas thing as long as possible, may as well troll Barcelona a bit before they get him. OK now he will be gone by Friday...
I just love the idea of a bunch of suits in a board room in a blind panic.
"Oh god oh god oh god"
"We have no defence! What do we do!"
"We're smurfed we're smurfed oh jesus"
And then one man slams his fists on the table "SIGN WILLIAM GALLAS!"
"SIGN WILLIAM GALLAS!" they all cry. "Of course!"
Then they all sit around watching one bloke on the phone. Praying, crossing their fingers, and chanting "please please please please".
"We didn't get him."
Silence.
And then more panic.
"Oh god, everyone is going to KNOW!"
"We'll be a laughing stock!"
"Couldn't even sign Gallas... the fans will riot!"
And the same guy as before slams his fists on the table once more to yell "DENY THE BID!"
Haha. Yes. And at the press conference: "I don't know anything about a bid for Gallas. HEY HAVE YOU SEEN GERVINHO? LET'S FOCUS ON HIM. :shifty:"
I don't know if we can be so smug. Ferguson said today that Nasri has got his mind set on another club (most likely City) and Modric is unlikely to leave London (whether he is playing for Chelsea or Spurs is another question), which means that if we don't sign Sneidjer, we're going to have the same central midfield we had last year less Scholes. And even if we get him, I'm not 100% certain he is the type of player we need. So, looks like we'll be focusing on Darron Gibson and Tom Cleverley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
In the three games I've seen Cleverley play in, he's been pretty good, but they weren't against the toughest opposition so yeah. I do hope he does well, though, hopefully better than Gibson anyway. But yeah, I do think we will sign another player. I don't know if it will be a marquee signing and I don't care, but I'm sure we'll be bringing in someone. If we don't, it's an obvious concern... and will be a very interesting season. But Fergie himself has said it's a nightmare trying to replace Scholes. This means that he is at least trying to do it, so that's good.
Yeah, but Scholes had diminished as a player even before Moscow 2008. At the end of 2011, he still had the vision and the passing ability, but his legs were gone. Ferguson should have signed someone a while ago. Although Anderson might come good. He has played some fairly awesome through balls and he is a true box-to-box midfielder. He just needs to learn how to head. And how to not crash cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
If the newspapers are anything to go by, it looks likely that a move for Sneijder to United could be done soon. But as British & Irish tabloids are anything to be believed, they will already say that he is parked outside Fergie's gate for a spot of wine & telling us he had a United crest tattooed on his private parts since birth.
Looks like Nasri will stay also. Leaving on a free next summer then?
"People in Italy" keep saying it's definitely on, but I can't see how after rejecting the idea over and over and over at Inter, they would suddenly say "oh we sold him."
Well club's have been doing that to get an increased offer for as long as I remember, although I do think they genuinely want to keep him. But there is a price for everyone (probably apart from Messi), we seen that with Cristiano. I would really love if he came to United!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
The plot thickens...Quote:
Originally Posted by BBC Sport
He's tending to Wenger's "calf"?
I like Gallas, but only when he makes his lengthy man of the match speeches.
1.5M for Wayne Routledge? Jason Scotland's heroic return to the Liberty Stadium? 17th place finish? I WANT TO BELIEVE.
want to trade him for Stewart Downing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Mind you I can kind of see method to the madness. In Adam and Downing we've bought two players more than capable of planting the ball onto Andy Carroll's noggin, and with those two and Stevie "Hollywood Ball" G in our squad, I guess that is going to be our Plan A next season. Plan B is have Luis Suarez destroy the opposition single-handedly.
Price is a bit high (although like all LFC transfers this summer the widely reported price is higher than the actual one - £18.5m), as was the £16m for Henderson, but smurf it, I'm not the LFC accountant. And I guess you can't complain too much about signing the best player of Blackpool, Sunderland and Villa. (take your Ashley Young and shove him up your arse. see: Liverpool transfer strategy flowchart; Villa fans + players' player of the year awards ;)) With no European commitments, it will be really interesting to see how well this new team will fare actually.
also as I am a liverpool fan and it's july: THIS IS ARE YEAR!!!!! to come 4th. I hope.
Fergie said he is out of the running for Sneijder. Well that's fantastic, all we have in midfield is Anderson, Carrick, and Fletch, with Gibson as good as gone. This is a real problem. We have no playmaker. Carrick is only capable of passing backwards, Anderson is hit & miss, and it's unknown if Fletcher will be 100% fit come the start of the season. It seems we have an abundance of wingers but nothing in between. :/
Scholes was a once in a lifetime player, but we can't just expect for another talent like him to come through the ranks, so we need to splash out, and on two ideally.
In all honesty, I have no issue if we don't get a marquee signing. Park, Evra, Vidic, Chicharito, Smalling - all fairly cheap. We tend to get really good results out of those that cost us less than £10m. So if we can, by all means, sign another unknown, Fergie!
For what it's worth, Jones is capable of playing in midfield and did so for many games last season (or so I'm told by a Blackburn fan). I imagine he is our Hargo replacement more than a Brown replacement, but you never know until SAF starts playing him in games. We definitely need a creative player to be brought in, though. I'm not sure we need two - Cleverley will likely take on the Gibson role and from what little I've seen, he's definitely better, more tricks and dribbling in his game, and still creative. Then there's that criminal Morrison guy who is supposedly amazing, but will probably only feature in the odd Carling Cup game. Still, we'll have to see how things go. There's a lot of summer to come yet.
Arsenal need more bad losers | Life's A Pitch
Interesting for Charlie. Says much that we are aware of (Arsenal need more grit), but I think the comment about the players being pampered and not being forced to acknowledge mistakes etc is also a flaw in the Wenger philosophy.
Phil Jones is a solid defender and good on the ball, but he isn't what United need. We need someone like Iniesta or like Scholes was a few years ago - always moving into space so a team mate can give him a pass, seeing the game several steps ahead and able to work an opening. Phil Jones isn't going to do that. Fletcher has got the energy and the movement, but his vision is a bit less clear-cut (although he does have his moments) and Anderson is Brazilian, so there is potential for him to be awesome if he gets over his injuries.
But there are the youngsters. Apparently Cleverley did well on loan at Wigan. And Ferguson has been right about introducing youngsters before. I would still like a midfield signing, but we'll see.
That article doesn't tell me much of interest at all, it's the usual desperately vague 'oh they need some players who are tougher' which sounds like the sort of thing the English press always says about the national side - I'd settle for better defence and a decent sports psychologist!
What Arsenal need to do is sell Fabregas. All this "will he, won't he?" crap every Summer and his subsequent sulking has a huge effect on team morale. When they see that their Captain doesn't want to be there, and doesn't give a trout, what hope at inspiring them does he have? What they should do is take Barca for every penny. Look at us and Torres. £50m (ha ha ha!) reinvested in better players (Well... Suarez at the very least) and the team's attitude after January was completely different. We were a whole new team, scoring at will, and there was a real positive vibe around the place once the pouting little ponce had gone. Him flopping at Chelsea was just the icing on the cake :D Mind you, he's had a Summer to rest and sadly, I expect him to flourish next season. I hope not, but I think he will.
...went off on a tangent there. Arsenal need to sell Fabregas; I hope they don't.
More importantly they need to keep ahold of Nasri, this is absolutely essential for the survival of Roberto Mancini. :mad2:
You'll spend more money than us this season!Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I'm hurt by the lack of Everton included in the poll. I can only assume this is because we all know Everton will win the league and so you just put the other teams in there to make it look like there'll be competition this year.
As for my footballing summer, I've settled into that routine of checking the BBC Football gossip page every day, not seeing any reference to Everton, going to a suitably pessimistic fan site (Toffeeweb usually) to read a couple of fan articles about how Everton would have a better transfer budget if they went on the dole and then trying to convince myself that if Yakubu comes back to Everton because we can't palm him off to Leicester then it'll just be like a new signing. I'm starting to doubt we'll even spend the £2/3m we got for selling Pienaar to Spurs, which was a pathetic affair in itself.
And then I usually have a couple of whiskies to get me through the rest of the morning.
Edit: Also the Chuckle Brothers signature/avatar combo being sported by Paul and Dan is absolutely beautiful. I almost want to try and find a picture of that angry bloke who was their boss in every episode to join in.
http://youtu.be/LnKW-yVTSrM
Can we get this guy commentating on Match of the Day? What a hero xD also ahahah best penalty
BBC Sport - Ferguson backs Tom Cleverley for England call-up
Cleverley it is then.
I think it is very difficult to predict before time. It is very tough to
select a team that win this league. Competetion is very tough among the team.
You're a Spurs fan, aren't you? We need one of those around here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bred Pit
Balotelli acting like a complete retard (Video at bottom).
Did you people hear about this? I can't believe he attempted this & that he wonders why he is taken off. Total disrespect for LA Galaxy. Mancini was so right to take him off.
I don't know, it was only a friendly. The guy is clearly a bit crazy though.
Nothing wrong with that, or with that random backheel penalty the other week. I don't get how it's disrespectful. He tried something, failed and ended up looking like a twat, the game goes on.
Yep, if it had gone in majority of people would have been crowing about how it was the greatest thing they'd ever seen. And it would have been awesome. But yeah Super Mario is insane and it's great.
I will always remember Balotelli for replying to the police's question of, "Why do you have several thousand pounds worth of cash on to you?" with, "Because I'm rich."
What. A. (Blue)Tit.
Mancini backheel goal for Lazio - YouTube Hold on a minute Roberto :colbert:
I really have to ask - how did you find out about this video's existence?Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
EDIT: And THAT is hardly the same thing hahaha.
I spent many hours today going through my collection of 90's Football Italia tapings, so as to find an incident to catch Mancini out. It was either that or the time he inadvertently exposed himself to the giant purple goose that serves as the Fiorentina mascot.
What a show.
If Tevez doesn't leave, City will either look really silly having both Aguero and Tevez, or they could have the most lethal strike force in the Premier League. I remember that one game of FM where I had Tevez, Rooney, Aguero, Vucinic and Tevez and Aguero did work very well (and obviously, FM is a perfect reflection of real-life).
EDIT: In other news, Paul Scholes has decided to reverse twenty years of silence by talking about everything. Paul, please shut up. After Giggs decided to have sex with anything that has a vagina within twenty metres of him, you are the last pure football legend left.
Scholes is right, though. You don't need to replace him with the likes of Sneijder, you need to replace Owen Hargreaves.
Anyway, did Tevez or Aguero win the Copa America's most valuable player award unlike a certain beautiful Uruguayan? No? THEN I AM NOT INTERESTED. :colbert: City to win the title. There's a bold prediction for you. Let me just vote in this here poll.
In fact, top four:
1. Man City
2. Chelsea
3. Man Utd
4. Arsenal
Unless Man United buy a new Owen Hargreaves type player before then of course. Then I will predict they will at the very least finish ahead of Chelsea, and maybe City too.
I want the season to start already! I'm just excited for the return of classic Liverpool. And by classic Liverpool I mean the Liverpool of my youth, not the conquering machine of a hundred years ago. Too long we've had the likes of Houllier and Benitez having us play cautious steady football. Now we're back to the good old Roy Evans days of "go ahead, score three goals against us, we're gonna score four." (Just ask Newcastle. Twice. :smug:) Our defence is so unbelievably dire. We have perhaps two legitimately good defenders - Glen Johnson, who you could argue doesn't do much defending and you'd be right - and Daniel Agger, who spends approximately 80% of the season injured. Martin Kelly is progressing nicely, and Skrtel and the aging Carragher can put in a good performance every now and then, as can Fabio Aurelio when he isn't hanging out with Agger in the physio room, but it's not enough. Either way, we will definitely be the most entertaining team in the league to watch next season, win or lose. Well, unless you buy into that beautiful Arsenal football (aka 90 minutes of fannying about) hype. Mind you, Wenger is usually a pretty good watch, but maybe not for the reasons he thinks. :D
When it comes to entertainment, no team could match Blackpool, someone needs to step up to the plate!
His name is Scott Parker. Or Danielle de Rossi. But Scott Parker is a proven quantity and he'll be cheap. I don't know why Ferguson is being stubborn about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
From the manager to the pitch, pure entertainment!Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
I never really got the hype about Scott Parker to be honest. I seen him play a few games last season and although I think he is a decent player, he is overrated by the English media. I don't think it's much of a surprise that their have been much offers (if any) for Parker as of yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
I still think United need a playmaker. Again, Sneijder is ideal in my eyes but anyone Fergie brings in for that role I would be willing to trust.
Hargreaves has only really consistently played in one of our recent seasons since Keane left. How many of those seasons have we won the title? We don't need to replace him. We have players who can play defensively if the need comes. We have both Jones and Fletcher who can play with a defensive head in midfield and have done so on numerous occasions at current/former clubs.
Personally, I'd say our #1 requirement would be a fullback, as we only have three that are proven fullbacks. Three is not good enough.
City to win the league? Extremely bold. But with Aguero up there with Tevez, it will be interesting. Still, so long as they have City-drama like last season, there is no chance. They rely too heavily on a player who does not want to be there. Unless the other strikers up their game considerably, they will not win the title. So it's possible, for me, but I'd say unlikely. I mean, it's possible Liverpool could win it, too, but I don't think it will happen this season coming. I think they need that one season back in the CL before they get to the title. Now that I think about it, City will be in the CL for the first time, too, so they will need more from their players in order to do well in both CL & the title, so I think it will be a very big ask of them.
Fletcher aint the player he was two years ago - he seems to have been going backwards. And Jones, yeah, he can play as a DM, but it's in the same way that Jamie Carragher could play as a DM. He could do it, but he wasn't at the level a title winning side needs. I think United got the most out of both Anderson and Carrick when they had the Canuck about. tbh I think last season's United side was one of the poorest United sides I have seen. That's not to say they were a bad team - far from it! they won the smurfing league after all! - but they struck me as more... assailable? than other formidable red devils teams in the past.
Also, no, Liverpool cannot win the league this season and would do very well to finish in the top four. The team isn't ready yet. If we carry on investing at the rate we have been, and if our youth carries on developing as it has been, then in 2-3 years, watch the smurf out. But for now, we are where we are.
Last season at the top really was a case of 'the least worst team wins the title' - Man Utd won five away games all season, Chelsea won one game in two months at one point but still finished second and Arsenal won two games in the last three months of the season. Not to mention the relatively ropey defences all round (even going into April Man Utd had let in as many goals as Arsenal, which is saying something). Interesting to see how this season compares. I can't see beyond Man Utd or Chelsea, though a lot depends on how Man City do with juggling European Cup football and the league, and dealing with the pressure now of an expected title challenge.
Wayne Routledge and Leroy Lita confirmed forbrawlthe Swans. Look out Premier League, we now have average players by the shedload.
The mighty New Zealand will have to beat the 4th best team in Concacaf (so Costa Rica or Honduras most likely) to make the next World Cup. Go for another unbeaten campaign guys!
He was just injured for a large chunk of last season. Not much you can do about that. The season before everyone was singing his praises, so there you go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Luckily a "proper" DM has not been something we've needed to win the league for many years now.Quote:
And Jones, yeah, he can play as a DM, but it's in the same way that Jamie Carragher could play as a DM. He could do it, but he wasn't at the level a title winning side needs.
I disagree - our best games have been when we were on the attack with a box-to-box (or as close as one we could get our hands on - ie Anderson/Carrick/Fletcher) player man-marking the opposition's creative midfielder (Anderson was awesome against Gerrard and Fabregas early in his United career - hopefully he can find that kind of game again)Quote:
I think United got the most out of both Anderson and Carrick when they had the Canuck about.
I agree with this on some level, but I think it was not so much United worsening (although they weren't at their best) as it was the rest of the league dramatically improving. There are no weak-as-weak sides these days, or maybe it just feels that way since we had such bad away form... hey, if we fixed that then we would have done way better. :S Only lost 2 points at home!Quote:
tbh I think last season's United side was one of the poorest United sides I have seen. That's not to say they were a bad team - far from it! they won the smurfing league after all! - but they struck me as more... assailable? than other formidable red devils teams in the past.
I genuinely expect you to challenge for the top four spots. I think, at the end of last season, you were doing just a well as City and Spurs were, weren't you? So why not?Quote:
Also, no, Liverpool cannot win the league this season and would do very well to finish in the top four. The team isn't ready yet. If we carry on investing at the rate we have been, and if our youth carries on developing as it has been, then in 2-3 years, watch the smurf out. But for now, we are where we are.
World Cup qualifying draw for the home nations:
Croatia, Serbia, Belgium, Scotland, Macedonia, Wales
Germany, Sweden, Republic of Ireland, Austria, Faroe Islands, Kazakhstan
Portugal, Russia, Israel, Northern Ireland, Azerbaijan, Luxembourg
England, Montenegro, Ukraine, Poland, Moldova, San Marino
Spain and France drawn together as well.
It was the season that we won the Champions League.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Hargreaves may be more defensively minded, but he wasn't a player to sit around the halfway line like a Carrick or Alonso. He was a very energetic player. Fletcher fits the mould but not Jones.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony Bob
And Scott Parker started out life as an attacking midfielder. He may have become more defensively capable and played in a more defensive role (especially for England), but he is still a force going forward. And he is a relatively cheap gamble.
Yeah, but we also have Fletcher and Valencia who can both cover suitably well at right-back. Evans can also go either side and if Jones can play as a defensive midfielder, he can play as a full-back too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony Bob
It's our midfield that's been weak for ages. Our most creative player in the midfield is Ryan Giggs. And he won't play every game. Fletcher, Carrick and Anderson have been inconsistent lately (okay, they have had virus and injury woes, but still) and once we go through them, we have the choice of playing Park as a central midfielder or throwing in Cleverley.
I don't understand why Scott Parker is so underrated by fans. He won the Football Writer's Player of the Year award playing for a team that was utterly dreadful.
We got to the Champions League final and won the the title at a canter. Our home form was practically perfect. I'm tired of people saying this when we were actually by out and far the best team in the league when the league itself was the most competitive I've seen since I had starting watching the game as a kid. I think we had only three defeats all season (off the top of my head, not sure). People need to start respecting us and the manager more, instead of always pointing the finger at other teams and saying 'if only'.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
I'm with BoB with that Hargreaves does not need to be replaced. To my recollection he was an average DM and nothing more, but an awesome winger. It is a pity to see injury ruin his career, he came across as a nice lad whenever he had an interview.
I think this is the first time in recent memory that no one team is a shoe-in for the title. Every team has obvious holes and with the season just two weeks away, I can see anything really happening.
Man Utd - Real questions in central midfield. They have the strikers and their d is usually pretty solid but the EPL is dominated by the midfield usually. If they can get a good solid central midfielder to boss the game, they'll be in much better shape.
Chelsea - Very unsettled Strikers right now. If Torres and Drogba find a way to play together, watch out, but can they? Also, a lot of their key players are getting up there in age and with age comes injuries. I like their new manager and am curious to see how quickly he settles in.
Liverpool - As Paul said, I think they will be very high-powered offensive team that can beat you several ways. Between Adams and Suarez, you have two players who are vastly individually skilled. Add in Downing, Carroll, Kuyt and perhaps someday a fit Gerrard and you have a power football team as well. Their biggest issue is defense. They MUST sign some new defenders ASAP.
Arsenal - A real wildcard. Will they hold on to their key central players? Will they bring in Mata? Will Wenger run out of cups and bottles to throw? Will they get real consistent goalkeeping? A lot of ifs and not much set in stone. Other then Van Persie will score a bunch of goals, then get injured for 6 weeks.
Man City - They CAN win the title or crash out of the Top 4. Much like Chelsea, they seem to want to have an All-star at every position, but that doesn't always work. Sometimes, you need a few more down and dirty players and less glitzy playmakers, so I'll be interested to see how they play as a group. Tevez will be a real headache, though if he does stay, they'll have some kind of strikeforce.
Spurs - Poor Spurs. They seem to have been written off already, but I'm not so sure. If they hold on to Modric, they can still challenge for Top 4. What they need to settle is their strikers. They can't be as bad as last year, can they?
I think any of these 6 can get in the Top 4, but I think only the Manchesters and maybe Chelsea can win the league this season. If Liverpool adds to its defense, then maybe they can make a run too, but I agree that they're another year away.
Take care all.
It's not a question of replacing Hargreaves as such. United need someone who has both energy and vision. Scholes used to have that, but in the last couple years, that has subsided. At the moment we have one player who has vision (sometimes) but sits deep in Carrick, we have a player who has vision and can still run with the ball but who's legs are fading (Giggs) and then 3 players with lots of energy but who's vision isn't always that fantastic (Anderson, Fletcher & Park). I don't think Fletcher or Park will ever be midfield maestros, but Anderson has had his moments (some of the through-balls he played to set-up goals are impressive), so we've either got to hope that Anderson improves this side of his game or that Cleverley is the new black.
I'm not particularly sure if I would buy Sneidjer to do this because I think he is like van der Vaart; likes to float freely behind the striker (which is probably why Holland is less good when they both play). And we play 2 strikers most of the time, so what is the point of spending 35 mil on him.
Anyway, in Fergie we trust.
Every press conference, SAF says "There's no interest" in Sneijder. It's amazing that everyone still says he's the one we're after. I mean... if he is, then why "no interest"? SAF plays mind games a lot, but he could just say something like "He's a good player but he has a good contract at Inter and we respect that" or something instead. I actually think SAF means it when he says "no interest". I think SAF would be after someone else, we know whe wanted Modric but that's not gone anywhere because Modric is in love with London, meanwhile Nasri is in two minds and looks to be staying in Arsenal at the moment. So... someone else? In SAF's words, if there is nobody available in the mould of player he wants (and that has enough quality to improve the squad), then he'll stick with what he's got. He's done it before, I'd not be surprised if he does it again. A worry, but hey, that's the way it all goes. Better off waiting for someone great to come up than settling for someone who won't help us win, I suppose.
I stand by my assertion that a fullback is a major requirement. We still have Giggs, Fletch, Anderson, Carrick in midfield, with Gibson, Cleverley and Park all ready to play in central midfield too and all established in that role (Park played there all the time before he arrived at United). But for there to be no established 4th fullback is silly. Rafael just got injured and Fabio is equally injury prone. For me, it's a major concern. Smalling and Evans at fullback are bigger liabilities than Gibson in central mid.
If we'd known we could've let you have Paul Konchesky.
Prediction time:
1. Chelsea
2. Man Utd
3. Man City
4. Arsenal
5. Liverpool
6. Spurs
Relegated: Swansea, QPR, Blackburn
FA Cup: Arsenal
League Cup: Chelsea
European Cup: Real Madrid
Crap, I could have sworn I'd posted the predictions in this thread, not the fantasy football thread. xD Anyway...
I'll also add that I think Sunderland have a good chance of getting into Europa League. I know Brown and O'Shea are old folks out there and at United some regarded them as second rate, but I think they'll excel even more than they ever did at United when they play week-in, week-out at their new club. There are questions about Sunderland's attack (Gyan excepted) now that Bent/Welbeck aren't there, mind you. I'll probably keep an eye on them to see how they do. I say 'probably' - O'Shea is one of my favourite players ever so I almost definitely will at least track his progress there. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Sunderland have made some solid signings, although I've never really rated Steve Bruce as a manager. I'd be very surprised if they made the Europa.
Yeah, I think we'll see an improvement for Sunderland this year, but I'd be surprised if they make Europe. I think that when you consider that last season's top 6 will probably be this season's top 6, there's only one possible place (7th) up for grabs and I'm not convinced I see Sunderland as being the best of the rest. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they finished above us though; 7th is the best I'm realistically hoping for for Everton. Who have apparently been priced out of even a free transfer.
As for City winning the League, I just don't know. I can see them doing well, but winning it? I can see they have the quality to do exceedingly well, but I can't see them winning it just yet. Season after I think will be their chance to make a serious challenge.
Predictions for the Table
1. Man United
2. Chelsea
3. Arsenal
4. Man City
5. Spurs
6. Liverpool
7. Aston Villa
Relegated: Blackburn, Wigan, Swansea
Promoted: West Ham, Reading, Blackpool
FA Cup - Man United
Champions League - Chelsea
League Cup - Arsenal
I don't get how you can win Fantasy Football and get it so wrong, Donal! :colbert: Liverpool will easily finish above Spurs. It took them until the last couple of games to do it last season, and you have to bear in mind we had a face-rubbing lunatic and an emo spaniard for half of it. I GUARAN-DAMN-TEE we will finish ahead of Spurs. If we do not, I will willingly put on a Harry Redknapp (or Gerry Francis!) avatar for a month afterwards!
Sorry but finishing above Spurs is all I have left in football, okay? :(
Oh, and Arsenal will win no trophies too. Just 'cause. :D
I'd find the prospect of Psy having an 'Arry avatar hilarious if I only I didn't hate Redknapp.
Tuned in to watch some of the Liverpool friendly and remembered why I am thoroughly annoyed with friendlies/pre-season, etc. The only thing that ever actually counts from these events are injuries. Hopefully Glen Johnson is ok.
I'm just happy that the season is this close.
Also, I need to once again declare my love for King Kenny, because, after the big voids of charisma Liverpool have had on the sidelines for the last few seasons, seeing him there, smiling, waving, laughing and joking with his players, makes me remember that we're all just watching a game and IT SHOULD BE FUN!
Take care all.
I am more comfortable seeing Martin Kelly at right-back than Glen Johnson. Although Johnson seemed to be much better when he was playing at left-back last season to accommodate Kelly anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
I do think De Gea is a fantastic keeper and will be one for us for many years, but man, how did he not stop that? =/
EDIT: Oh my God, that was a fantastic second goal for us.
Apparently he was at fault for both goals - I didn't see the first one though so I don't know. I hope this severely knocks his confidence and he goes on to be a massive failure. :D :D :D Cleverley doesn't seem half bad though. I didn't realise Utd had a dynamic midfielder like him - he really looks like he can perform at the highest level and could be that missing piece of the puzzle that I was talking about. I may have to revise my title predictions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Having said that, that's not to rip on City. David Silva is out of this smurfing world. Very underrated player. Would walk into any Premiership team's XI.
e: I feel cheated. I sat through most of that game just to watch Aguero and he didn't even get off the bench :colbert:
De Gea could be seen as at fault for the first goal, but that would be slightly on the harsh side given that it was a header from about two to three yards out. But he could have maybe claimed it? Dunno. It was a cracking ball in from Silva that got that goal and I think it was more a matter of a good set piece by City than poor defending. Silva is underrated? Not by me, and not by anyone I know. He's brilliant and I think everyone who watches football knows it - he was linked with every club in the world from a young age.
I saw Cleverley in last season's pre-season, and thought he was pretty good then. I saw him in a few games for Wigan and thought he did okay. This pre-season he's been fantastic, though, and I have to concede that any doubts I had about Young are already gone. He fits in as if he's played for us all his life. Young, Nani, Rooney, Cleverley, Anderson, Welbeck... those six played some really good one-touch football. All young defenders arguably did better than the elder counterparts, although it should be said that most of them weren't on for 50 minutes, let alone 90.
Overall, though, cracking game for us. The two goals City scored were both against the overall run of play, and I think we really showed some great play.
De Gea (20), Anders Lindegaard (27), Ben Amos (21), Rafael (21), Smalling (21), Jones (19), Fabio (21), Evans (23), Cleverley (21), Young (26), Valencia (26), Nani (24), Fletcher (27), Anderson (23), Welbeck (20), Rooney (25), Chicharito (23), Mame Biram Diouf (23), Frederico Macheda (19).
Whoever takes over from SAF, assuming he doesn't manage forever and ever and ever, is going to have a lot of things ready for them. To think that if you take away about five of our oldest players you'll still have all of the above... not bad!
I have a distinct feeling that this will be a high scoring year in the EPL. Each and every team seems like they're loaded offensively with defense taking a back seat. Not that I'm complaining, there's nothing less inspiring then a nil-nil draw in which neither team really takes any chances. Maybe that's just my American, always want to see goals bias kicking in.
Take care all.
Haha, your probably right too. But your on Paul. I'll put on a Redknapp avatar in recognition if they do manage the feat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Fantastic game to get the ball rolling for the season. Our second goal is one of the best I've seen from a United side, it was awesome. I was impressed with Cleverly also. I'm not the greatest fan of Carrick, he eternally seems to have a lack of confidence in his play and its almost like he's afraid of making a risky pass in case he looks found out. Cleverly was there and wanted the ball all the time, it was great to see and you were made aware of his presence on the pitch.
As for De Gea, he was definitely in fault for the second goal, but the first was just down to good set piece play. Still, I was there thinking to myself that if Van Der Sar were playing out there today the score would be nil all at half time. He's only 20 and playing in front of a massive crowd in his first cap for Man U, so its obviously forgivable. It's funny though, because he is Spanish he seems to have an automatic gift of distributing the ball fantastically by the looks of it.
I enjoyed the Community Shield match, I thought United were pretty poor in the first half, but they started the second in the best possible way. Most definitely a game of two halves. The punters in the pub I was in all seemed to think that had Utd lost that match, there would have been more criticism of De Gea than was the case. I don't think he covered himself in glory in that match, but hey, it's early days yet. I'm going to reserve judgement for the time being, but I don't think that that start will boost his confidence.
News has just come through that our opening match against Spurs has been postponed because of the situation in London. No news as of yet re: the other nine matches. BBC Sport - Tottenham v Everton match postponed after London riots
We had something like 70% possession in that half, so unless you're either summarising 45 minutes by two goals scored against the run of play or are pointing out that our strikers sucked, I'm not sure where that's come from. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Heath
Mainly that your strikers sucked, to be honest. Perhaps I'm looking back at the first half by comparison to the second too. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBWe had something like 70% possession in that half, so unless you're either summarising 45 minutes by two goals scored against the run of play or are pointing out that our strikers sucked, I'm not sure where that's come from. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Heath
Real Madrid vs 109 Children.
This is the best thing. I want it to be a mode in the new PES/FIFA.
Anyway, with Enrique on board, it looks like we have a fairly decent squad. Just one more piece of the puzzle to go: A CB. Been linked with Dann, Cahill and Shawcross. I wouldn't mind either of the first two. Would be a bit :| about Shawcross. United had an option to buy him back and invested in Smalling and Jones instead, which kind of tells its own story.
I still miss Xabi Alonso.
I am happy we finally got a decent LB. I too would love to pick up one more CB and if at all possible maybe another striker just for coverage.
Predictions:
1. Man Utd (The last season I think they'll win the title for a few years, unless they add to the midfield)
2. Man City (So much talent, but just not enough heart... yet)
3. Liverpool (I really think no European football will help them focus much better against the lesser teams, which has been their biggest issue the last few years)
4. Chelsea (Torres hurt already and I'm just not sold on this team like in years passed)
5. Arsenal (I firmly believe Cesc and Nasri will be gone by January. Will they buy actual replacements?)
6. Spurs (Didn't buy a striker yet and really, really need to.)
FA Cup: Liverpool
League Cup: Man City
Champions League: Barcelona (Still think they're the best team).
Relegated: Blackburn, Newcastle, Swansea
The season can't start fast enough!
Take care all.
Was thinking of posting the exact same thing. I remember when he was sold, Donal said something like "Good player but probably not worth £30m". You were right, he was worth double that in lost Champions League qualification money alone! I would say he was the best Liverpool player of the Benitez era, surpassing even Gerrard and Torres, and the wheels came off when we sold him.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
Did I? xD I actually always admired him as a player. Jose Enrique is a terrific signing for Liverpool - really underrated player. He is causing much unrest in my fantasy football team, the little fecker. Does anybody think he will start tomorrow at Sundarland?
Who knows, with Cesc going, maybe Arsenal will push forward. No more people wanting to leave (maybe apart from Nasri), so no more unrest in the camp.
Ahhhh that's my Liverpool. First half, full on smashing the door down, playing at 100mph and probably should've had 3 or 4. We'll get the second in the second half lads, no worries... doo dee doo... ahhhhh no worries we'll win, just take the foot off the gas boys... oh. Oh. Uh. Ok. We can still win this. Uh. Well. Uh. CHUCK LONG BALLS TO ANDY CARROLL THIS INSTANT!!!! I think I stand by my 5th place prediction.
So Joey Barton is the footballing equivalent of an internet troll, Gervinho is foolish and Robbie Savage is in dire need of a punch in the face.
Ah, leave Robbie alone. :D I like 'im. I don't know what he's like as a commentator, but as a bloke on a sofa on Soccer A.M. (or whatever) he was always one of the most entertaining guys you could come across.
With Cesc out the door, I really don't like the look of Arsenal. They seemed very disjointed and frankly, lacking the connective passing that we've come to expect from them. Ripe for the picking perhaps?
As for Liverpool, that first 45 was wonderful to watch, as they looked dangerous every single time they had possession. I think Adam was a great signing as for the first time since Xabi Alonso left we have someone who can QB from deep. I also thought Enrique and Downing looked lively. The second 45, not so much. It was quite nice to realize that we actually have quality on the bench as both Raul and Dirk came on, but I too would have liked for more one touch passing and less kick the ball high to Andy Carroll. Once Gerrard gets healthy and in to the lineup, in Henderson's place most likely, as well as Glen Johnson or Martin Kelly on the right I think we may have one of the most balanced lineups in the league, which is something I never could have said last year.
All in all, a decent start, and much more lively football to come I hope! We may be getting Arsenal at just the right time as well.
Take care all.
felt that the opening weekend (of the premier league) was a bit dull tbh. the bolton game was a good watch, other than that it all felt a bit 'meh.'
as a toon fan, glad that we picked up a point (amongst other things, Joey) but we didn't play well. give the new boys a chance to click and a new striker and i think we'll do alright.
my hometown team, wycombe are looking a bit shaky, but two draws out of two games is alright i guess. we are the perrennial 'yo-yo' team of the lower divisions.
glad to have the footy back. in all honesty, the title looks set to return to manchester (united) yet again but i'm willing it with everything i have that it doesn't. hate man boo. would rather see...anyone win the league, other than united. or blunderland.
So long Cesc, your (and our) long national nightmare is finally over. I continue to believe this is the year Arsenal finish outside the Top 4.
Take care all.
Mildly disappointing to witness the glory of the England cricket team over the past few weeks, followed by a return of the ridiculous drama of playacting and referee-harrassment as seen in the Newcastle game over the weekend, along with the media sensationalism that came with it. Yep, the football season's started all right!
In other news, the beers are in the fridge, the shirt is washed, the phone's off the hook and the tissues are on the armchair in preperation for tonight. I'm ready.
Aww.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Awww baby's first Prem game :3 :3 :3 (football began in 1992)
I think Fabregas leaving will be a boost for Arsenal. Although I think I've posted that before.
In other news, I am excited about the prospect of United having a tit keeper. It's Taibi all over again! :jess: Also also, I am excited about the prospect of having a United player I genuinely hate again. Step forward Ashley Young. What a little bitch.
I think losing both Fabregas and Nasri will be a blow to Arsenal. If they had kept one or the other, they'd be fine. When they lose both, there's a big problem.
I don't think we've got a tit keeper just yet - he made some proper good saves that nobody would have criticised him for not saving had they gone in. It's early days and we'll have to see how things go. But it's definitely a concern. You could see the sympathy all over SAF's face when he said "I think he's lost a bit of concentration there, but welcome to English football because he took a battering in the second half." I still think he'll come good, though. But for this season in particular, it'll be a big concern. He needs to bulk up a lot to compete with the big defenders coming in for crosses, and he needs to learn how to fall quickly towards low shots. But he's proven himself on the big stage already so I don't see why he can't adapt to such things. If worse comes to worst, we have Lindegaard, who is promising, not to mention Amos (and at the moment, we still have Tomasz, although I doubt for long).
On the bright side, apparently one Peter Schmeichel had an absolute horrid time in his first game, too. Phew.
Why do you hate Young, out of curiosity?
He's a diving whinging little :bou::bou::bou::bou:bag who reminds me of a young C. Ronaldo. I appreciate all teams have players that do this including LFC (Ask me whether I admire Stevie G or Dirk Kuyt more and Dirk will walk it every time) and it's not a localised Ashley Young problem. Don't care. He's now my panto villain.
Also, I hope De Gea comes good in the same way Roy Caroll did. :greenie: Although I didn't say he is trout, but rather that there's the prospect of him being trout.
Fair play. Rooney has been known to dive, btw. I don't know if Young does it more often than Rooney or not, but if he does, hopefully it'll be stamped out a bit while with us. Oh well.
Also, in other news, John Obi Mikel is told his father has been kidnapped on Friday and insists on playing anyway. Bloody hell.
:lol:Quote:
hopefully it'll be stamped out a bit while with us
I dunno, we don't dive as much as we used to. But then I guess I am remembering the times that Ronaldo was with us...
Nani bawled his eyes out and started trying to slap ambulance men after Carra learned him last season. Enough said. Just clone Chicharito and replace your entire team with him imho.
Wait, was that the occasion that Carragher should have been sent off and Nani was bleeding from his shins? Yes, he overreacted and was a big crybaby over it. But that was not diving - it was a two footed studs-up challenge that directly connected with Nani's legs.
EDIT: Don't get me wrong. Nani is a diver but that was a very bad example you gave. :p
Why should anybody be sent off for wasting Nani? It's like the people who claimed Joey Barton should've been sent off for learning Gervinho. I just don't get football fans sometimes. :confused:
ps: actually I only brought it up because of this Surreal Football (sorry Manus) article. It worked!
I'd struggle to disagree with any of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
People are far too quick to assume that a disagreement means that someone is wound up. :p It didn't work. You've done far better when it comes to winding me up without the need for instructions. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
The media fuss over De Gea is ridiculous, he's played two games and already he's useless and should be ditched. Who'd be a goalkeeper these days.
A fond farewell to Fabregas. Nasri will get a much less fond farewell.
It might be a bit premature, but he definitely needs to pull himself towards himself. He might have the talent but he definitely needs to be more dominant in the area and improve his concentration (the fact that he let in the most goals from outside the box in La Liga suggests that this might not be too easy to solve). I don't understand why we spent 18 million quid for an unproved kid though. We have Lindegaard, who looked very solid in the games he played, and there are lots of experienced, capable goalkeepers (Shay Given for example) floating around.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
Besides that, the lack of Sneidjer might not be too traumatic. I like the look of Cleverley and, for me, he feels to be more the player we needed to sign than Wesley. Sneidjer might be fantastic going forward, but I don't ever recall him having a great work-rate, especially defensively. Cleverley looks like he is always going to be making space to receive a pass, have clever touches and short passes and will cover the ground defensively.
Selling Wes Brown might have been silly. But Phil Jones looks like he was born in an United shirt and Ashley Young will hopefully get better as he becomes more confident in an United shirt and starts to run more at defenders (instead of cutting in and crossing to the defender's boot).
Selling Wes a silly thing? No. Selling O'Shea? Yes. We have five central defenders and three fullbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Wes was epic against Liverpool. And he was an epic right-back in the season we won the Champions League (and it was he that put in the cross that Ronaldo scored from to give us the lead in that match).Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoBSelling Wes a silly thing? No. Selling O'Shea? Yes. We have five central defenders and three fullbacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by champagne supernova
Anyway, Smalling looks good at right-back. And if injuries get that bad, Valencia and Fletcher have both played well enough there and I'm sure Jones can slot in too.
Boy, once Man City brought on Kun they looked SCARY good.
Take care all.
It's not difficult to look scary good against Swansea at home.
Two goals and one assist (and it was a damned skillful assist too) for Aguero in his first 30 minutes of English football. If they can convince his compatriot to stay, can you imagine a front three of Aguero, Tevez and Silva? That's the stuff nightmares are made of.
Also sorry Manus :( ...at least you got to see your boys with the official Premier League font on their backs. That's... something, right? :shobon:
Swansea needn't worry, they'll probably pick up three points when they visit us next month.
Well, tit.
We were on top for the first 20 minutes! Vorm had a great game, Dobbie had a mare (what the hell was he doing with that shot from 25 yards on around 60 minutes? Sinclair was clean through), but we just didn't have the fitness to keep going in the end and it showed. Aguero's second goal was a belter. Don't think we deserved 4-0 though :cry:
Now, I'll see you guys later. I'm off to drain the emergency gin cabinet.
I have tickets for that!Quote:
Swansea needn't worry, they'll probably pick up three points when they visit us next month.
Hurl abuse at Nasri/Wenger* for me, will you?
*if they're still there. :smug:
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:heart:
Carlos who?
And us, to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
I'm disappointed I didn't get to see the match, but I was listening to the BBC commentary and I wish I'd seen Aguero playing.
Also, roll on Saturday and our match with QPR. I'm fed up of waiting for our first game so I can moan about our lack of goalscorers/money with which to buy goalscorers/Neil Warnock/all of the above.
It always seemed that Chelsea would inevitably get one of Torres or Aguero.
Penny for your thoughts, Roman? =]
I'm surprised they didn't get both. Now that would be a strike partnership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Fair play to plucky Arsenal, many smaller clubs like them who can't fill their stadiums go into their shell when Liverpool show up, but they did their best and only resorted to long ball football at the end. And Frimpong looks very much like an Arsenal player. Very good at vocalising discontent and playing for free kicks. So that's a positive for them. If they carry on with their plucky never-say-die attitude, they might be a good outside bet for a Europa League place.
And as for Charlie Adam... he's alright you know. I like Charlie. I wish for Charlie to come to my house so I can watch this game over and over with him. I wonder if Charlie would like that.
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Kenny Dalglish Swears at Arsene Wenger 17/04/11 - YouTube
ps: thanks man utd for letting us borrow "Own Goal", he's a pretty handy player! :D
We know, he's scored for us this season already. :p
Christ, you have to feel for Arsenal - that has to be one of the softest own goals I've ever seen. :monster: (monster for added effect)
Arsenal: Don't worry, guys, you have the best youth development system in English football! You'll be fine! And you still have Nasri!
West Brom: Two games, two solid displays against to opposition in which they could have stolen a couple of quality draws... two 2-1 losses. Good preparation for the next games against relatively weaker oppositions, simply unlucky battlers, or bottlers when in good positions late in the game?
Spurs: Hahaha, bloody hell they just can't cut it this year. 17th already! ...Oh, right.
Bolton/City: After two 4-0 games in the first round, why aren't the media billing this as the "season-winning game" yet? Have the English media gone soft or something?
Everton: Ah, geez, ooh, wow, uhm, yeah... but hey, at least now that Long has scored against both Chelsea and United, you can be told who you probably couldn't afford to but somehow still should have bought during the off-season!
Swansea/Wigan: If this was a "both sides need two points to stay up" game, they would have stood back to back, walked ten paces forward, turned around and drew. =|
Blackburn: Heskey is your bogey player? Really? Really!?
No, they don't. Maybe the manager of the best team in Europe can tell you who does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
In 20 years time, it'll be our year...! :jess:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pep Guardiola
ps: if I ever, ever catch you badmouthing Emile Heskey again I will call you Bob forever and encourage every other member of this forum to do the same :colbert:
You do stuff like that anyway. I wasn't badmouthing Heskey, I was badmouthing Blackburn. ^_^
Arsenal = Sarcasm. Manchester United fan Ramsey has recently come out to say he joined Arsenal instead of United because he felt that Arsenal were better at developing youth talent (by which I assume he means developing Southampton's youth talent).
From what I can find through a bit of research, Man Utd's bogey player is Danny Murphy, so you're not exactly in a position to talk. :colbert:Quote:
Originally Posted by lonny bob
Those bloody Murphys!
EDIT: 2:00 in, now go watch the rest of the movie and educate yourselves in NZ culture.
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"David Silva football."
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"If do right, no can defense."
I'd like to formally apologise to the rest of the league for helping Neil Warnock feel that bit smugger over the weekend. Still, at least Rochdale showed him who's boss/showed us how to beat QPR.
I'm almost tempted to put money on us going out of the League Cup tonight at Sheffield United. I know you shouldn't beat against your own team, but I think I'll almost be surprised if we are in the draw for the next round.
Some really interesting moves as the window begins to close:
Mata for Chelsea is a great move. I had him rated very highly when Liverpool seemed interested early on and seeing him go to one of our rivals truly stinks. That said, being able to watch him on a more consistent basis will be fun.
Coates for Liverpool would be a wonderful move. He's young, very tall and has loads of talent. He reminds me very much of a young Sami Hyypia, which can only be a good thing.
Arsenal.... well, I really don't understand WHY they seem to keep dragging their feet. Either Arsene will pull off the single most remarkable season for them in a long while or they will finally finish outside the Top 4. There's really no middle ground in my mind. They aren't up to the level of Man Utd, City, Chelsea or Liverpool right now.
Take care all.
Yes, yes, I know it's only week three etc. etc. but:
Arsenal and Spurs in the relegation zone as I type this. I think I just came.
I think my prediction for City to win the league wasn't a bad one, you know.
edit: STOKE :argh:
edit2: My prediction for Man Utd to come third looks to be an abysmal one and I hereby officially rescind it. Jesus christ. Truly a Manchester pissing contest going on.
edit3: I... I think I enjoyed a Manchester United victory. I am scared. Someone hold me. :( Wait hold on, let me think of a dig. Did you hear their fans? Their fans were actually singing! That's how good it was! There we go. :D
What a glorious day of football, we casually rolled up to spurs home ground and pissed all over them for a laugh, Dzeko with FOUR, are you serious. and then Utd take top spot by goal difference after trashing arsenal. I don't even give a tit, you can have it for that ahahahahah. smurfing learned so bad, worst team ever, wengers tears will be the sweetest nectar.
Remember reading on another forum, bunch of arsenal fans claiming if they bought two or three random nobodies from the french league (lol) they'd be "miles better" than Liverpool this season. Literally aren't any more deluded fans in the world anywhere, seriously the worst people ever, can't even claim to be better than newly promoted Swansea let alone Liverpool who have put together a very nice squad. There's not a bunch of more deserving failures for this to happen to in any sport in any country. what a glorious day :heart:
When that guy got himself sent off, I actually felt sorry for him. Not because he didn't deserve to go off - he did. But because... well, was that his debut (EDIT: Ah, second PL game)? Because he's not Premier League quality. At all. He is not ready. 19 years old, two PL games to his name, two red cards to his name. I just checked and last year he was playing for Welling United F.C. in the Conference South. I mean... damn. Pay for a proper defender and pay well, Arsenal. £6m for Cahill is an absolute joke and to be honest, an insult to the player. And even if he did sign, why would he want to at the moment? Unless another couple of defenders followed, it wouldn't be worth his trouble - he'd have more of a chance at getting into European football at Bolton at the moment. So if United can spend £16-18m on a young defender, and you want to buy the "real deal" that has been there, done that when it comes to proving himself in the PL... expect to pay a significant amount, easily in the double digits. Even if he's only got one season left with Bolton (which may be the case?), at least pay £10m, because if you don't, you won't be in Europa next year and you won't be able to afford the wages of three European quality defenders, let alone four.
Delighted with our guys but to be honest, we played just as well as we did last week. Arsenal just absolutely dire. Our two conceded goals were weak but then again, three out of four defenders were often in the opposition half and they probably were getting a little slack at times. Gutted for Welbeck, though. We could have scored ten - or more.
EDIT: #Shambles trending on Twitter xD
I'll be honest, I've lost most of my interest in football over the last two years for some reason, which is a shame because I used to be all over it. This is glorious, however. Some of my neighbours are massive Arsenal fans and they're really obnoxious about it. Arsenal carrying on their dire run would far succeed all of those turds I've posted through their letterboxes put together.
So yes fingers crossed that Arsenal keep doing tit. I know we're not very far in so I'll hold the celebrating off for a bit longer.
Remember when this thread used to have five+ Arsenal fans posting in it? Now we have 0. Who am I supposed to howl at like an enraged baboon now?
One way or another, I think we just saw the end of an era today. Either Wenger's untested youth philosophy goes, or he does.
Also to be fair BoB, Liverpool v Arsenal at the Emirates last year, we had two young lads playing only their second full game in both the full back positions (Flanagan and Robinson) and they did damned well. Nothing wrong with youth. It's just that if your youth isn't very good in certain areas of the pitch you should buy better players for those positions.
Yeah, but that guy was brought in from playing a handful of games in the Conference South (two loans to two clubs). He wasn't even good enough to play for his main club in league one at those two points last year, so why would he suddenly be okay to go into a PL team? I know there are injuries, but there aren't that many injuries to their side and in all honesty they may have been better to give the CB spot to someone from their midfield backup such as Lansbury, or even put Ramsay in CB and put Lansbury in the middle. The main point, though, out of the whole ordeal, is that £6m is not the amount of money you should expect to pay for a defender like Cahill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
It probably didn't help Jenkinson that their tactics were rubbish. But even when they corrected faults in their tactics, new ones appeared.
Credit to him, though. He got an assist. :p
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At least this gives me some hope for next week.
Lansbury and Ramsey are hardly experienced veterans either. I think Lansbury has played less minutes in the Prem than Jenkinson hasn't he?
Anyway, Bolton, having seen that, will know of Arsenal's desperation to buy. They also know they received a nice wad of cash for Fabregas and Nasri, who incidentally must've been breathing a sigh of relief they got out just in time. Bolton will surely crank the price for Cahill through the ceiling, as if the premium on buying young English talent wasn't high enough. Wouldn't surprise me if it was £25m or more.
Sunday was a good day :)
Ins: Jordan Henderson (£16m from Sunderland), Charlie Adam (£7million from Blackpool), Alex Doni (free from Roma), Stewart Downing (£20m from Aston Villa), Jose Enrique (£5million from Newcastle), Sebastian Coates (£7m from Nacional), Villyan Bijev (undiscl from California Odyssey, Craig Bellamy (free from Manchester City).
Outs: Paul Konchesky (£1.5m to Leicester City), Jason Banton, Deale Chamberlain, Douglas Cooper, Sean Highdale, Steven Irwin, Nikola Saric (all released), Stephen Darby (season loan to Rochdale), Gerardo Bruna (nominal to Blackpool), Peter Gulacsi (loan to Hull City), Martin Hansen (loan to Bradford), Milan Jovanovic (£700,000 to Anderlecht), Tom Ince (undiscl. to Blackpool), Daniel Ayala (undiscl. to Norwich), Nabil El Zhar (free to Levante), Sotirios Kyrgiakos (undiscl. to Wolfsburg), Dani Pacheco (loan to Atletico Madrid), Alberto Aquilani (loan to AC Milan), Emiliano Insua (undiscl. to Sporting Lisbon), Joe Cole (loan to Lille), Christian Poulsen (undiscl. to Evian), Villyan Bijev (loan to Fortuna Dusseldorf), David Ngog (£4million to Bolton), Philipp Degen (released), Raul Mereiles (£12million to Chelsea)
Possibly the best transfer window I have ever experienced as an LFC fan. Firstly, because of the outs. So much dross from the Hodgson and Benitez (yes I love Rafa, but his signings were 50-50 in terms of brilliant and diabolical!) eras have been cleared. In fact, with Raul gone that means every signing Hodgson made other than our third choice keeper is gone. I'm not thrilled about that one, and I sort of wish we still had Aquilani as he is a perfect replacement, but then again it's not like CM is an area LFC is particularly light in, with Gerrard, Adam, Henderson, Lucas, Spearing and Shelvey - I'd say we're still covered. Raul is kind of a hit-and-miss player. Sometimes he can be great, and other times he can really go missing. Given their past history with signing players from us (see; Torres, Benayoun) you would've thought Chelsea would've learned their lesson.
The signings have been great too. We may have paid over the odds for Downing and Henderson, but they're definitely decent players. We also got some very very good deals for the other signings we made. Doni and Bellamy are two very experienced individuals and to get them on frees is fantastic. I did not have a bad word to say about Bellamy when he was at LFC last time, always thought he wasn't given enough of a chance, glad he's back. Adam, Enrique and Coates are all good buys at the price. Coates especially. I read one article that said "Liverpool have signed twice the player Phil Jones is at half the price" :D May be a bit of hyperbole, but it's exciting. The media are making a big deal about how much money we're supposedly spending, but when you take into consideration the amount of money we've just slashed from the wage bill (£20m per year - most contracts are 3-5 years I think) that's where it's actually come from.
We haven't signed any world class superstars like Aguero, Mata etc. but what we have done is built a very nice squad with depth and options, something we haven't had in a long time. Now that this in place, hopefully we can get a CL spot which will give us both more money and pulling power to buy a couple more Suarezes. ...christ, random tangent but imagine a team of Suarezes. I think I just came.
After two seasons of dross (well, one and a half) I think we've finally got back to where we were 3-4 years ago.
edit: DEGEN GONE TOO! smurf YES. Today is awesome. He was the last one I wanted gone.
So, the Swans have signed a sub goalkeeper, and two nomark backup defenders, one costing £250,000, and the other beiing Federico frigging Bessone on a free transfer who left 2 years ago to go to League 1 Leeds because he is a League 1 standard player. He got released from smurfing LEEDS for not being good enough after leaving us for not being good enough. We're (SPOILER)even more screwed.
I would say that Mereiles (or whatever) is a loss to Liverpool and denying it is silly, but then again, they signed Adam and Henderson and that's a net gain, especially since both have already been performing well. But Mereiles was still a very good player for you guys, I think your best player last season?
Everton, man, damn. They got boned. Not sure who had a worse transfer window, them or Swansea. Probably Everton.
Lucas was our player of the season last season, and if we'd lost him to Chelsea I would actually cry! I am not saying Raul's not a loss. Given the choice between keeping him or having £12m I would choose keeping him. Definitely would have liked Raul to stay and LFC are weaker without him. But it's not as much of a loss as losing, say, Maxi would be, given that we don't have a lot of cover out wide. My own view on him as a player, when he is on form, he is a pure maestro. The "When" isn't especially consistent. And I think Kenny agrees - he's been behind Adam and Henderson in the midfield pecking order this season.
I would tend to agree with that. Once Gerrard comes back, which is only a week or so away, Raul would have been even further down on the bench. Basically, we now have a very solid starting 11 and can rotate through a midfield of Lucas, Stevie, Adam, Henderson, Downing, Maxi, Spearing and Shelvey with strikers being Suarez, Carroll, Kuty and Bellamy. The defense is also much stronger and I think Coates will be a big signing, especially since he cost half of what Cahill would have. Plus, we also get to bring up some more youth to compete for spots. Maybe Sterling, maybe Coady?
Most importantly, our books are getting streamlined which is big as we move away from the previous owners terrible mismanagement of the club. If we can progress in to the Top 4 this year and based on early returns fully think we can, we'll make even more moves come January and then beyond.
My ideal starting 11 now:
Reina
Kelly Carra Agger Enrique (With Coates, Skrtel, Johnson, Flannigan for backup)
Lucas Gerrard Adam (With Henderson, Maxi, Spearing and Shelvey for backup)
Kuyt Suarez Downing (With Carroll and Bellamy for backup)
I'd take that against any team in the Prem right now.
As for other moves:
Arsenal, eh, I guess they improved their team somewhat. But frankly why did it take this long? I still think they're team is lacking. Arteta can be good but he's so brittle and if goes down, who do they have after him? The defensive players were no-brainers frankly, but I think a lot of their issues are tactical and unless those get addressed, not even the best defenders in the world will matter.
Spurs, also eh. I don't see how they're going to stay in the Top 5 this season. With Van Der Vaart out for a while, they've lost their wildcard creative player. Modric is good but looks unsettled. Maybe he SHOULD have been sent to Chelsea. We'll see.
Man Utd, no surprise, made no big deadline deals and frankly, why should they? They look immense, though I do wonder if they should maybe shore up the defense a bit more, because Rio looks like he's done being an every week player and if they should lose Jones or Smalling, they'd be very weak there. Still, they remain the favorites.
Man City... I almost thought the Hargreaves move was a joke. In a way, it was as if Man City did it on a dare, could they actually sign a player without overpaying for him? If he's healthy... he could be useful, but will he ever be healthy again?
Which brings me to Chelsea. I'm frankly very confused by why they grabbed Raul at the deadline. It was my understanding that AVB wasn't the biggest fan of him when they were together in Porto. Now, they grab him so he can what, be an impact sub? For that amount of money? I get it that money isn't an issue with them but it seemed like an odd move. What they really need to do is sort out their strikers. Torres, God bless him, isn't the same player he used to be. Maybe they can try using Mata as a deep lying striker and use Lukaku until Drogba comes back, IF he comes back, up top but there's something about this team I don't really like at the moment. I still think they'll finish top 4 but something just seems off.
I think Stoke made some interesting moves, as did Sunderland and was happy to see the new clubs also trying to strengthen themselves but man, you have to feel for Everton. They are drowning in debt and lose probably their most creative midfielder and don't replace him. It's going to be a long year for that end of Merseyside. Wigan and Blackburn too have the look of teams that may be drowning quickly.
Revised season predictions:
Man City
Man Utd
Liverpool
Chelsea
Arsenal
Sunderland
Spurs
Wolves
Relegated: Wigan, Blackburn, Newcastle, QPR, Norwich (Any of these 5)
Take care all.
Keep in mind that Obi Mikel and Ramires commonly start for Chelsea. Mereiles is not going to be an impact sub behind those two. If he is, that's ridiculous, because Ramires in particular is not close to Mereiles and Obi Mikel is just a go-to player when Essien isn't fit/playing well. Creativity was always the word being used for what Chelsea lacked, and with Mereiles and Mata, they've two players with more creativity than any of their initial midfielders. As for strikers, if you think you can say Torres won't come good, you're optimistic or bitter. If you think Anelka and Drogba aren't capable of 15 to 20 goals, I'd disagree. Lukaku and Sturridge are incredibly good for their age and I expect them both to be PL stalwarts for many years to come (have you seen Lukaku? It's insane when you think about him being so much bigger than most seasoned central defenders... and I'm talking about when he was just 16).
Well, he was behind Henderson and Adam!
Chelsea's striker problem is essentially a game of musical chairs. Who exactly are the must starts? Does Drogba start when healthy? Does Torres? Does Anelka, does Sturridge, does Lukaku? The problem is they haven't yet found a partnership that works. It's a wonderful problem to have but until they settle it, they won't be as good as they can be or think they should be. At the other clubs with multiple strikers, there is a definite hierarchy:
Man Utd: Rooney, then Hernandez and Welbeck
Man City: Dzeko, Aguero then probably Tevez
Liverpool: Suarez, then Carroll and Kuyt
Arsenal: Van Persie, then pray.
But Chelsea don't have a defined Alpha Dog striker and until they figure out who that is, I think they'll be unsettled.
Their midfield too is the same way: you have Lampard, Malouda and Mata as the obvious starters, but they need a defensive player in there too. Man Utd have Anderson, Liverpool have Lucas, Man City have Yaya. Meireles isn't that. I really don't think he'd start over any of those three players and they need someone to play the DM position, which is why Obi Mikel, Ramires, Kalou and/or Essien play there. Meireles IS an impact sub player not a starter for them.
Take care all.
...because they probably already knew he was possibly going to be sold. :p Just because Carrick, Fletcher, Giggs, Berbatov and Hernandez haven't played yet doesn't mean they will forever be behind Cleverley and Welbeck. They might be, but we don't know that yet. You can't decide the established order of a club this early in the season, especially before the end of the transfer window. Only after the next few game weeks will we really know exactly what Mereiles will do at Chelsea, just as we'll find out whether Cleverley is really going to be our first choice central midfielder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
There is the established order at United that Rooney starts, but I wouldn't say there is an established order beyond that. It all comes down to form and rotation. If you can't rotate a very large squad (keep in mind we also have Owen, Macheda and Diouf who will likely start cup games), you end up in a bad position with your strikers.
To say Tevez is behind Aguero and Dzeko because of their start to the season is also a little hasty. He's a massive player for City, leaving or not, and when they pay him that much and were not wanting him to go (they would have sold him cut price if they really wanted him to leave). He'll play a lot of games this season and he'll start a large number of them, too.
Your Arsenal heirarchy is very accurate, though. :p
Drogba and Torres are the primary duo at Chelsea. Drogba will ease off though, purely due to his age - but I can tell you that when he played against us late last season, he was easily the most dangerous man on the pitch for Chelsea... his brute strength allows him to brush past any central defender when he's got the ball at the right spot, so writing him off is something I'll never do... I just can't see him ever really being a bad player, just a tired one.
Torres will become more prominent. But does that mean that Torres is past it? No. He's just not returned to his best form, he's not reaching his potential - yet. But he will. A player of Torres' quality does not subside from "best striker in the world" to "not the same player he used to be" at the age of 27. He is that player, he's just lacking in confidence. He'll get it back when he scores a few goals, and he'll likely piss us all off when he scores against our clubs. He's too good to not return to the guy who could score a hattrick against any top club in the world. The guy is a massive talent.
Lukaku is untested in PL but if he is as good as he is made out to be, Drogba will be replaced by Drogba, Part II. If Chelsea manage another 15 years of Drogba, well, smurf me, that's going to be difficult for all of us. :( Sturridge I think will be sold eventually, but he was the best attacking player for Bolton last season so he's capable of shining at PL level already. He's quality for a #3 or #4 striker.
I don't know what you're getting at regarding Chelsea's midfield. They have Essien and Obi Mikel who are both defensive midfielders. They don't need another. And they simply don't have trouble in that area. I've never seen a Chelsea game where they have struggled in the DM region. Their defenders are that high quality that they don't really have to worry about it. I mean, we have no DM's at United, and we won the title last season with that setup. Chelsea doesn't lack defence, Chelsea lacks creativity. Lampard was effective but has not been creative for some time.
Malouda was very much out of favour on occasions last season and Ramires is crap. Ramires was not played as a DM, he was played as a wide right midfielder. And I have never seen Kalou playing as a DM - he is a wing/forward. He's always been one. Did they really play him as a DM? And Obi Mikel and Essien are DMs. Essien is, when fit and in form, arguably the best DM in the world. I would love it if we had signed Essien instead of Chelsea. Obi Mikel is a DM, too, because he isn't good going forward. He's like a poor man's Fletcher - not good enough going forward so he plays in the DM position instead. Only, Obi Mikel isn't amazing there, either. :p Fletcher has more commitment and drive than Obi Mikel, which is why Fletcher is regarded higher.
EDIT: And I just checked and Meireles won 2010-11 PFA Fans' Player of the Year. Malouda and Lampard most certainly did not. How he would have won that award without being highly regarded by Liverpool fans is beyond me.
He's no Nigel De Jong :colbert: Nigel is a legendary beast. Was blagged hard by the Hargreaves signing at first, but there's really no downside to it on examination. If he ends up crocked again, well, we paid nothing for him and are probably paying him relatively low wages. If he stays fit, we'll have a quality DM with a point to prove and desire to play who can slot into the side against the likes of Norwich and play in the FA cup keeping Nigel fresh and rested for the important games.Quote:
Originally Posted by lonny bob
And yeah there's no way Dzeko and Aguero are ahead of Tevez in the pecking order, now the windows closed and it's confirmed he's gotta stay you'll probably see Carlos being pushed back in to do what he does. Dzeko's random burst of good form doesn't suddenly make him the god of City, and Sergio bless him is still a new guy. Let's not forget about Super Mario either :heart:
Hargreaves has signed using the win-win "Owen contract" so yeah, I imagine you're not in a bad position at all with him. The only thing that surprised me about Hargreaves signing up to a big club was that the big club was City, and they already have good DMs. Although Vieira did just retire, so I suppose it's a direct replacement.
Well yeah, we've got Nigel. Yaya can play there, but Mancini seems to think he's an attacking midfielder or something, Barry is more of a centre midfielder and pants, Milner is a winger etc. Nigel is our only commited DM, Kompany can play there if he wants but he's immense as a CB so that's his role. So it's a good bit of work and nice cover for Nigel really.
He's also less likely to get a red card than Nigel, so it fits quite well in that regard, too. Nigel plays until he gets a red, Hargo plays until Nigel can play again, repeat repeat repeat.
My point is that Raul IS NOT a DM and in order for him to crack the lineup, they'd have to replace either their starting DM or someone like a Malouda for him and frankly, Malouda is a better player when he's on form. What Raul could bring is creativity, but isn't that why they brought in Mata? If they didn't have Mata, I could see playing Meireles there. But otherwise, I don't see where he cracks the starting lineup.Quote:
I don't know what you're getting at regarding Chelsea's midfield. They have Essien and Obi Mikel who are both defensive midfielders. They don't need another. And they simply don't have trouble in that area. I've never seen a Chelsea game where they have struggled in the DM region. Their defenders are that high quality that they don't really have to worry about it. I mean, we have no DM's at United, and we won the title last season with that setup. Chelsea doesn't lack defence, Chelsea lacks creativity. Lampard was effective but has not been creative for some time.
Malouda was very much out of favour on occasions last season and Ramires is crap. Ramires was not played as a DM, he was played as a wide right midfielder. And I have never seen Kalou playing as a DM - he is a wing/forward. He's always been one. Did they really play him as a DM? And Obi Mikel and Essien are DMs. Essien is, when fit and in form, arguably the best DM in the world. I would love it if we had signed Essien instead of Chelsea. Obi Mikel is a DM, too, because he isn't good going forward. He's like a poor man's Fletcher - not good enough going forward so he plays in the DM position instead. Only, Obi Mikel isn't amazing there, either. Fletcher has more commitment and drive than Obi Mikel, which is why Fletcher is regarded higher.
If we assume their starting lineup looks like this and I think AVB likes a 4-1-2-3:
Cech
Cole Terry Luiz (Ivanovic) Bosingwa
Obi Mikel
Lampard Malouda
Mata Drogba Torres
I could see Meireles coming in as a sub for Lampard or Mata to keep things moving creatively but I think he just moved to a more expensive bench.
As for Tevez, you know, Mancini has just as big an ego and I don't know if he'd just gladly plug Tevez back in. He's shown he has no problem buying expensive players and not playing them consistently: Milner, Balotelli, and frankly, with the way they've looked, why mess with their rotation? Tevez has proven that he'll play hard for a few years then want to leave, which has always bugged me because I do like him as a player. I kind of want a manager to rein him in and make him see that it can't always be about his wants but that THE team is more important.
Finally, for Man Utd, I definitely think there is a pecking order there. Otherwise, where the heck is Berbatov? I think it's Rooney and then either Hernandez or Welbeck then Berbatov or maybe even Owen when fit above him? Talk about an abundance of riches if Berbatov can't get a game.
Take care all.
We agree on that!Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
But I disagree on that. :) Well, I'd say they're on par, I suppose. Malouda had brilliant games last season, but he was often pointed at as the 'weak link' in the Chelsea side. I don't agree with that, to be honest, but a large number of people don't call someone a weak link if he's playing brilliantly week-in, week-out. He obviously wasn't. It was the latter half of the season, if I remember correctly. Perhaps I do agree that he can be a better player, but his consistency is simply not good enough.Quote:
and in order for him to crack the lineup, they'd have to replace either their starting DM or someone like a Malouda for him and frankly, Malouda is a better player when he's on form.
They were also looking to bring in Modric. Perhaps this is the area where you and I look at purchases differently, and perhaps you can see why if you look at the sides which we have supported over the past five years. If you think one creative midfielder is enough, well, look at any title-winning side. One is never enough if you want to win titles. Never. Liverpool have rarely relied on depth in their squad during the Benitez era - they had their best players and those players played regularly - they had a lot of other players, sure, but they weren't good enough to realistically compete with the others in the squad. But now it seems they have so many good players that compete for positions... it's like you guys having Carroll for £35m when he's more often than not a sub. But he's not simply a sub, is he? He's more than that. He's a proper good player that could start a match and you wouldn't feel tit. Not to mention Bellamy joining too. You can now rotate your strikers or even combine them in a dangerous manner. This talent in depth gives you options, gives you strength to compete for a full season, gives you the realistic target of CL football. Meireles gives Chelsea that. They won't play the same side every week. They're in it to win it.Quote:
What Raul could bring is creativity, but isn't that why they brought in Mata? If they didn't have Mata, I could see playing Meireles there. But otherwise, I don't see where he cracks the starting lineup.
This perhaps exaggerates my point. Why do we have Hernandez, Berbatov, Rooney, Owen, Welbeck, Macheda and Diouf? Why do we have Smalling, Jones, Ferdinand and Vidic (note: we had even more central defenders last season!)? Why do you have Suárez, Carroll, Kuyt and Bellamy?Quote:
If we assume their starting lineup looks like this and I think AVB likes a 4-1-2-3:
Cech
Cole Terry Luiz (Ivanovic) Bosingwa
Obi Mikel
Lampard Malouda
Mata Drogba Torres
I could see Meireles coming in as a sub for Lampard or Mata to keep things moving creatively but I think he just moved to a more expensive bench.
That's true, but for me, it would make him a stupid manager. He's not stupid. If Tevez can help him win a title, everyone will expect him to play. Egos are put aside if you want to win.Quote:
As for Tevez, you know, Mancini has just as big an ego and I don't know if he'd just gladly plug Tevez back in.
I'd put that more down to City than to him. Arguably every single one of their players was expensive, so it only makes sense that many will be benched. But Tevez will not be ignored, will not be made to play in the reserves. People use that "rot in the reserves" thing but it doesn't really happen. Not when you pay them that much, not when other teams were wanting to buy them. If you don't want the player to play, you sell the player. Mancini wants him to play. The only thing stopping him from playing is the form of his other strikers and - possibly - Tevez being a snot.Quote:
He's shown he has no problem buying expensive players and not playing them consistently: Milner, Balotelli,
I agree that it would be futile to mess with Aguero and Dzeko when they are both heavily in form, but they aren't exactly Lionel Messi. They will have bad runs - all strikers do. They'll get tired, too. More and more games will be played. Everything is different after the transfer window closes. Players who wanted away realise they are stuck with their club and they get on with things. Managers will have not played certain players because there was the possibility of them being sold, and the possibility disappeared two nights ago.Quote:
and frankly, with the way they've looked, why mess with their rotation? Tevez has proven that he'll play hard for a few years then want to leave, which has always bugged me because I do like him as a player. I kind of want a manager to rein him in and make him see that it can't always be about his wants but that THE team is more important.
There is some sort of pecking order... but But SAF has always highlighted his desire to get four strikers in form. He rotates all the time. If there was a pecking order that was strictly followed, we would never have played Bébé, Owen or Macheda last season. Rotation: injuries, keeping players happy, form going up and down, tactical changes, horses for courses, confidence, impressing the gaffer in training... rotation, rotation, rotation. That's something you seem to forget about far too quickly when you discuss squads! There are pecking orders but that does not make a player a sub for all days. Pecking orders change, pecking orders are rotated, pecking orders can be impacted by almost anything.Quote:
Finally, for Man Utd, I definitely think there is a pecking order there. Otherwise, where the heck is Berbatov? I think it's Rooney and then either Hernandez or Welbeck then Berbatov or maybe even Owen when fit above him? Talk about an abundance of riches if Berbatov can't get a game.
I can agree on some of what you said, however, I think that it's just as vitally important for a side like Chelsea to get their strikers in order before anything else. One could argue that Arsenal have had no shortage of playmakers in their midfield over the last few years, the Cesc's, the Nasri's, etc, etc but it's led to little result because other then Van Persie, no one will consistently put those great passes in to the back of the net.
I think they are in danger of turning in to Man City of the last few years. Too many players and not finding the right mix to get optimum results. Sure, they could play Mata, Lampard, Torres, Drogba, Meireles, Malouda all at once but I don't think the balance would be right.
What Man City have done right this year is found a real formula for success: Strikers who can come back and get the ball (Which Tevez did do), midfield wizards in Silva and Nasri, defensive players who keep the middle clean in De Jong and potentially Hargreaves, width with Adam Johnson and Clichy when he bombs up the side and a strong defensive core. That's what has won Man Utd championships and what also makes Barcelona a damn perfect team (Having Messi, Xavi and David Villa certainly helps too).
I don't know if adding another creative midfielder to the mix in Chelsea is the best idea when they need to sort out their strikers first. Mata, Meireles, Lampard and company can all play great in the middle but if Torres remains off form, if Drogba begins to slow, if Lukaku isn't ready yet... they turn in to Arsenal, but with a much better defense.
Granted, I get why they made the move. Like you said, coverage and to rotate. However, if some other club had signed someone for 12 million pounds and he wasn't going to be any every week sort of player for them, I'd said they overpaid. Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, even Utd have drastically changed what it means to be a savvy buyer when it comes to price.
As for Tevez, I really don't think money is the issue. Man City have enough money to let him rot of they want. If he cleans up his act, shuts his mouth and plays, then Mancini will play him. However, if he keeps making statements about how he's "resigned to stay" or has a "love-hate" relationship with his own manager, his butt belongs on the bench.
I get why teams are stockpiling players, but it seems to me that at the end of each season, you have at LEAST 3 or 4 players who won't feature enough and were brought in only to be sold later. That's how I see Meireles. If someone gets injured, sure, he is a great signing, but it gets crazy when a team can literally field another starting 11 off the bench and this is coming from a NY Yankee fan.
Wow, I just compared Chelsea to both Man City AND Arsenal. The international break has to end soon.
Take care all.
While I agree, it should be noted that both Chelsea and Arsenal scored 9/12 (respectively) more goals than City did. Chelsea do have great strikes and they have added Sturridge & Lukaku to their squad. If you think that's a bad group, I don't know why. Perhaps you're thinking of their end of season form last year, but moving clubs mid-season makes the second half of the season difficult for almost any player. Form is temporary, class is permanent. We'll see if Torres can regain his class this season, meanwhile having Drogba (still great, just lacking in stamina now so can't play as often), Anelka (scores in every club he plays at), Sturridge (8 games in 12 appearances for Bolton at the end of last season) and Lukaku (top scorer in Belgium at the age of 16 is nothing to sniff at - this guy is physically bigger than Drogba, and is about as two-footed as Nani/Young if I remember rightly).Quote:
Originally Posted by The Captain
No, it wouldn't. I agree there. But that's why you rotate. You don't see us playing Valencia, Young, Nani, Rooney, Hernandez and Giggs. Hernandez, despite having a wonder season last year, came off the bench at least 18 times and only started 27 games - Berbatov started 32.Quote:
I think they are in danger of turning in to Man City of the last few years. Too many players and not finding the right mix to get optimum results. Sure, they could play Mata, Lampard, Torres, Drogba, Meireles, Malouda all at once but I don't think the balance would be right.
...and in all cases bar Barcelona (who I think we can all agree are a pretty big exception), they rotate their squad. United rotates almost every game, even when we don't have to. City rotated last season and had their best season to date. I'm sure they'll rotate again. You need a squad, not a fixed starting XI.Quote:
What Man City have done right this year is found a real formula for success: Strikers who can come back and get the ball (Which Tevez did do), midfield wizards in Silva and Nasri, defensive players who keep the middle clean in De Jong and potentially Hargreaves, width with Adam Johnson and Clichy when he bombs up the side and a strong defensive core. That's what has won Man Utd championships and what also makes Barcelona a damn perfect team (Having Messi, Xavi and David Villa certainly helps too).
Sturridge, hi. 8 goals in 12 games at a club which, with all due respect to Bolton, is not a club famed for it's creative attacking play. That is nothing to sniff at. They technically have Kalou, too, but... eh, he's not the best at their end. Lampard is slowing down just as fast as Drogba is and Mata is at the moment unproven in the PL. If Torres, Drogba, Anelka, Sturridge, Lukaku and Kalou all struggle, Malouda will play up front. If it genuinely comes to that. I would laugh my arse off if every striker Chelsea have lost their touch. It'd be like Rooney, Hernandez, Berbatov, Welbeck and Owen all struggling. These are things you can't anticipate. Oh, and as for Torres remaining off form, he's no longer out of form. He was praised in the game we played against them, and he's scored in pre-season too. Last season's form counts for nothing.Quote:
I don't know if adding another creative midfielder to the mix in Chelsea is the best idea when they need to sort out their strikers first. Mata, Meireles, Lampard and company can all play great in the middle but if Torres remains off form, if Drogba begins to slow, if Lukaku isn't ready yet... they turn in to Arsenal, but with a much better defense.
Meireles: £12m - no games played for Chelsea since he signed, so we don't know yetQuote:
Granted, I get why they made the move. Like you said, coverage and to rotate. However, if some other club had signed someone for 12 million pounds and he wasn't going to be any every week sort of player for them, I'd said they overpaid. Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, even Utd have drastically changed what it means to be a savvy buyer when it comes to price.
Carroll: £35m - is second fiddle to Suarez at the moment
Berbatov: £30m - warming the bench at the moment
City - I mean, I don't even know where to start. I think every player on their sub bench cost them at least £12m. Surely? Hargo and Johnson excepted.
I agree in that regard, but Kia is a shrewd guy - a right dick, mind you - and will play his cards right. Tevez will play because Kia will tell him to play. And Tevez is his puppet.Quote:
As for Tevez, I really don't think money is the issue. Man City have enough money to let him rot of they want. If he cleans up his act, shuts his mouth and plays, then Mancini will play him. However, if he keeps making statements about how he's "resigned to stay" or has a "love-hate" relationship with his own manager, his butt belongs on the bench.
*shrug* United have done this for years. We're proof that it works.Quote:
I get why teams are stockpiling players, but it seems to me that at the end of each season, you have at LEAST 3 or 4 players who won't feature enough and were brought in only to be sold later. That's how I see Meireles. If someone gets injured, sure, he is a great signing, but it gets crazy when a team can literally field another starting 11 off the bench and this is coming from a NY Yankee fan.
It's fun to debate football. Also, hahaha, they rave about the new look England and how they can keep the ball now because Parker and Barry are playing, and how no long ball tactics will occur. And Parker practices long ball. Over and over. :p
We all know England were better because they had no Frank Lampard. Don't stop there though. Get rid of Terry, Rio Ferdinand and Stevie G (:() too!
Responses to Lonny BoB:
- We played Torres even though we knew he was gonna be sold. And Raul has come on as a sub in two games and started our second string against Exeter, so any idea of "protecting" him for a sale by not playing him is ridiculous. Especially as he got crippled vs Exeter! :p
- Essien is not even the best DM in the Prem (De Jong and Lucas are definitely better, Alex Song a possibility too) so no, he isn't the best DM in the world. 3 years ago, you may just have been right though.
- Torres is not on top form. He has 0 goals in 3 games. That is not any kind of form for him.
Regarding Torres, I didn't say he's in top form, I said that last season's form counts for nothing and it's too early to say he's in bad form.
Regarding Essien, I said if he's fit and on form, he's one of the best. I stand by that! He's just not been fit and in form for some time. :( Perhaps one of his injuries has affected him badly. But you're right that going by his past season or so he's not been one of the best, and fair enough, I guess you can only judge players by what they do on the pitch, but I still think that if he gets a solid run in the team again then he'll be back to his best. I hope so. He's one of the only Chelsea players I've found myself actually liking. :p
So Sunderland offloaded Gyan and lost again. haha XP
I'm curious to see how Newcastle fair on Monday, will Barton score against us. Will Demba Ba score? Or will there be more surprises from Ryan Taylor and Sammy Ameobi.
With every round of games that passes, I realise we wasted £35m on Andy Carroll... but the fact that we got £50m for Fernando Torres makes me feel better about it. :)
Someday you might get to the stage that you play 4-4-2 with Carroll and Suarez up front and both will be in form and that £35m will suddenly feel very well spent. The potential of that front two is pretty immense.
:smug:
Please come back soon Nigel, we are a bag of trout without you. :(
Shoot me repeatedly in the head, this is not a world in which I want to live anymore.
http://www.uploads.gaming-resources....TorresFail.gif
Well I think that's all that needs to be said about that game.
(Bro admin note: Sort out that retarded non-working mini window that appears whenever I click the insert image button)
With regards to the Liverpool game, I don't think Liverpool were all that bad (apart from their shoddy passing), just Spurs were sublime. Adebayor's goals were top drawer, and Scott Parker dominated Liverpools non-existent midfield. Both sendings off were valid imo, though maybe Bale went down a bit easily for Skrtel's second yellow. I especially loved the red hot and in form Andy Carroll's zero contribution!
Perhaps the most amusing thing about Chelsea in our game against them is that everyone thinks that Torres is there biggest problem, and perhaps this will continue after that balls-up. This is the most amusing thing about Chelsea because he was so much better than any of their other players in that game. The other player's weren't terrible on a whole - they gave us a good fight and more goals could have come in for either side - but yeah, he was easily their most dangerous player.
And ahahaha at Evra vs. Lukaku for corners. Crazy.
I will never stop loving you Fernando, thanks for trying to make me feel better :')
Also I thought Andy Carroll contributed more as a midfielder when we went down to 9 men dropping deep and chasing people down than he does as a striker. Go figure.
