Best and worst parts of the game!

Just curious! One for each category :)

BEST - Finding your way back to the Ragnarok on disc 4 (I almost cried with happiness, even if there wasn't much to do story wise)!

WORST - The whole 'in space' section on disc 3 generally put a downer on me. It pretty much just felt like one huge cutscene after another (minus the Propagator battles), especially the whole catching Rinoa in space section! [levian]I wish Square would've included a 'screw Rinoa and safe your own ass' option... after which Squall tells the party back on Earth a whole fabricated web of lies in which Rinoa cheats on Squall with a damn sexy Propagator called Bruce and unable to live with her cheating ways commits suicide shortly after by standing under the cock-pit elevator and pressing the 'call lift' button... [/levian]


Anyone else?

BEST: Eyes on Me (means a lot to me personally)
WORT: Running all the way down D-District Prison, only to find I had to run all the way up.

Eyes on me? The ending version or the scene in the Ragnarok? You know, I forgot all about D-District prison... but yeah, that'd have to be my second worse, especially as you can die in that FMV sequence (took me two tries to figure out what I had to do duh)!

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Eyes on me? The ending version or the scene in the Ragnarok? You know, I forgot all about D-District prison... but yeah, that'd have to be my second worse, especially as you can die in that FMV sequence (took me two tries to figure out what I had to do duh)!

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Mostly the Ragnarok, because It's such a beautiful scene between my two favorite characters in any FF game, but the way it's done in the ending is very powerful too, but it wouldn't be so without the Ragnorak scene.

Yeah, the thing with the D-District Prison is that the game actually makes you go all the way downstairs to the bottom floor, and then it's all like "Hey guess what, we just played a joke on you, the real exist's upstairs!" And by the FMV do you mean when Squall's dangling on the bridge as the prison submerges? That part *beeped* with my head first time around.... :mad2:

Yeah, I remember thinking at the time, either they're taking the p*ss or just trying to cover up a plot hole, seemed pretty jarring at the time! And yes, the bit where the bridge submerges... it was an awesome scene though, but I think the first time it happened I hadn't saved in aaages (it's not like you expect to get killed by FMVs lol)!

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Yeah, I remember thinking at the time, either they're taking the p*ss or just trying to cover up a plot hole, seemed pretty jarring at the time! And yes, the bit where the bridge submerges... it was an awesome scene though, but I think the first time it happened I hadn't saved in aaages (it's not like you expect to get killed by FMVs lol)!

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Exactly! When I saw that it was like;

GAME: *Plays cool FMV*
ME: Man, I dunno what's happening, but it looks really cool.
GAME: *Game Over screen*
ME: "WHAT DA *BEEEEEEEEEEEEEP*?!"

Best: Disc 1, The Garden Battle at the end of Disc 2, Triple Triad, game mechanics concept.

Worst: Orphanage twist, Esthar, Ultimecia, how the games mechanics were implemented.

Are we talking best/worst parts of the plot or the game itself?

Plot

Best: though I think it came out of nowhere, the assassination attempt on Edea. Also, the scene between Squall and Rinoa at the sorceress memorial, and how scary and apocalyptic Lunatic Pandora looks.

Worst: D-District prison, every. single. Laguna dream and that whole concept along with any other flashback, the orphanage realization, and how crappy of a main villain Ulti was. Most of the focus on her was in passing, and her presence wasn't really developed so much as it was merely (poorly) explained, so I as the player never feel any emotion towards her when playing. I want to hate the villain just as much as the protagonists do, and I just can't do that here. We know that she's a psycho bitch and wants to achieve ze time kompression and rule ze world, but we don't know WHY she wants to do that; her motivation is never really explained, and if it's just because she's just evil at heart, I don't buy it.


Game and Mechanics

Best: triple triad, card club, and manipulating the rules (although I don't like the Queen of Cards quest; it's tedious). What separates it from junctioning imo, is that while they're both easily exploitable, triple triad still contains some degree of luck and when Same/Plus is involved, some serious concentration that makes the results more worth it than junctioning. I also love the side quests, especially all of the hidden GF's, the deep sea research center, and PuPu. Oh, and the Ragnarok looks cool.

Worst: every aspect of the dialogue (it's cheesy, excessive, often out-of-place, etc.), the fact that the characters are annoying caricatures of themselves and are wholly two-dimensional (and except for their limit breaks, there's virtually no difference between them in-battle, but that can be said for other installments in the series), the systematic way one can exploit junctioning SO early in the game, which makes the leveling system useless. Most of the music is bad too (I like FH and Eyes on Me though), and there's really no limit on weapon progression (the fact that you can get Lionheart on disc one), and the fact that you absolutely HAVE to have some of GF's for their abilities, yet you never use them in battle.

Best: Disk 1

Worst: Everything after Disk 1

Best: Ultimecia battle theme, end of disc 1, Laguna, Gilgamesh.
Worst: Too easy, D-District, my game lags at the FMVS at the end of disc 1 (I know, my bad) , Ragnarok scene between Squall and Rinoa (too cheesy for me).

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Best: Disc 1, The Garden Battle at the end of Disc 2, Triple Triad

Worst: Orphanage twist

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This. But I'll add more.

Best: Some of the Laguna, Kyros and Ward cutscenes, Ulimecia's castle

Worst: The incredibly forced relationship between Squall and Rinoa

Best: Gilgamesh

Worst: Deling City Sewers

Best: Holy tit guys the Garden is flying wtf is going on
Worst: Going up and down D-District Prison. I enjoyed the plot here, but uurrgh.

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Just curious! One for each category :)

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I think I was the only one who actually noticed that.

Also, it's a shame I'm still the only one who likes the orphanage scene - I really need to get that article done, but I have other projects to do first.

Best: Disc 1
Worst Disc: The last two discs.

With FFVIII I thought the plot got more and more ridiculous, even for and FF game. However, I still think FFVIII had one of the strongest first quarters in the series, and I wholeheartedly enjoyed it.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Just curious! One for each category :)

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I think I was the only one who actually noticed that.

Also, it's a shame I'm still the only one who likes the orphanage scene - I really need to get that article done, but I have other projects to do first.

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I have absolutely no problem with the orphanage scene. I got chills when it revealed the truth about Edea. I just don't understand how something as simple as a scene in a video game could get people to want to pull their hair out in fits of hatred.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Just curious! One for each category :)

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I think I was the only one who actually noticed that.

Also, it's a shame I'm still the only one who likes the orphanage scene - I really need to get that article done, but I have other projects to do first.

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I have absolutely no problem with the orphanage scene. I got chills when it revealed the truth about Edea. I just don't understand how something as simple as a scene in a video game could get people to want to pull their hair out in fits of hatred.

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I dunno... I don't have that much of a problem with it, but it just seemed a little tacked on, as if the script writers suddenly thought 'Oh crap! We forgot to tie their childhoods into the story!'. I think they could've slowly built up to the fact they all used to live at the orpanhage, but without giving too much away beforehand.

Best: The intro and Seed Examinations. Once I realised how the marks were given I think I re-started the game about four times to get the best possible score... I enjoyed every minute of it.

Worst: GF Cactuar. Until joining this site I could never beat him before he legged it. I refused to finish the game without getting him (cheers Kaiser).

Jumbo Cactuar has the best mustache in all of Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

I think they could've slowly built up to the fact they all used to live at the orpanhage, but without giving too much away beforehand.

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That's exactly what they did, but they did it in such a clever way you don't even notice it when playing it the first time around. Maybe it was because I used Xplosion when I first got this game and ended up replaying the game imediatly after completing it, thus having the orphanage thing fresh in my mind from the get-go. Also, I think I may have had multiple saves back then - I used to do that a lot as a kid with FFs, so I probably had a save state at the orphanage, or after, and a couple of save states on, say disk 1 or something. That's the only explaination I can think as to why hardly anyone seemed to notice the hints if not at the second playthrough but at least the third or fourth.

The thing I really like about these hints is that they work better in hindsight - any other method would have not only been a spoiler, but would have been cheesey as hell (Disk One: "Hey it feels like I know you"/Disk Two: "Hey, cool! I do know you!"). When you see them the first time, some of them may strike you as odd, but will still be ultimatley meaningless, and others will go straight over your head, but once you know how it all turns out, I'm really shocked that I was the only one who during his later playthrough went; "Oh, that's why Irvine took Selphie's recjection so personally", "Oh, that's how Squall knew Edea's name", "Oh, that's why Irvine couldn't shoot Edea". I'm not even feeling particularly at the moment, and I can still remember this much, and I know that there's a lot more, and that is why the orphanage is one of my favortie twists ever.

Don't forget the very beginning of the game where some strange lady, later revealed to be Ellone, seems to know Squall and Quistis!

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

I think they could've slowly built up to the fact they all used to live at the orpanhage, but without giving too much away beforehand.

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That's exactly what they did, but they did it in such a clever way you don't even notice it when playing it the first time around. Maybe it was because I used Xplosion when I first got this game and ended up replaying the game imediatly after completing it, thus having the orphanage thing fresh in my mind from the get-go. Also, I think I may have had multiple saves back then - I used to do that a lot as a kid with FFs, so I probably had a save state at the orphanage, or after, and a couple of save states on, say disk 1 or something. That's the only explaination I can think as to why hardly anyone seemed to notice the hints if not at the second playthrough but at least the third or fourth.

The thing I really like about these hints is that they work better in hindsight - any other method would have not only been a spoiler, but would have been cheesey as hell (Disk One: "Hey it feels like I know you"/Disk Two: "Hey, cool! I do know you!"). When you see them the first time, some of them may strike you as odd, but will still be ultimatley meaningless, and others will go straight over your head, but once you know how it all turns out, I'm really shocked that I was the only one who during his later playthrough went; "Oh, that's why Irvine took Selphie's recjection so personally", "Oh, that's how Squall knew Edea's name", "Oh, that's why Irvine couldn't shoot Edea". I'm not even feeling particularly at the moment, and I can still remember this much, and I know that there's a lot more, and that is why the orphanage is one of my favortie twists ever.

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I guess, but I don't think you should have to restart the game to realise this, especially as it was integral to the main story, and I don't recall Squall remembering Edea's name? Wasn't this because she was well known anyway (working her way up through the Galbadian ranks and all)?

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

I think they could've slowly built up to the fact they all used to live at the orpanhage, but without giving too much away beforehand.

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That's exactly what they did, but they did it in such a clever way you don't even notice it when playing it the first time around. Maybe it was because I used Xplosion when I first got this game and ended up replaying the game imediatly after completing it, thus having the orphanage thing fresh in my mind from the get-go. Also, I think I may have had multiple saves back then - I used to do that a lot as a kid with FFs, so I probably had a save state at the orphanage, or after, and a couple of save states on, say disk 1 or something. That's the only explaination I can think as to why hardly anyone seemed to notice the hints if not at the second playthrough but at least the third or fourth.

The thing I really like about these hints is that they work better in hindsight - any other method would have not only been a spoiler, but would have been cheesey as hell (Disk One: "Hey it feels like I know you"/Disk Two: "Hey, cool! I do know you!"). When you see them the first time, some of them may strike you as odd, but will still be ultimatley meaningless, and others will go straight over your head, but once you know how it all turns out, I'm really shocked that I was the only one who during his later playthrough went; "Oh, that's why Irvine took Selphie's recjection so personally", "Oh, that's how Squall knew Edea's name", "Oh, that's why Irvine couldn't shoot Edea". I'm not even feeling particularly at the moment, and I can still remember this much, and I know that there's a lot more, and that is why the orphanage is one of my favortie twists ever.

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I guess, but I don't think you should have to restart the game to realise this, especially as it was integral to the main story, and I don't recall Squall remembering Edea's name? Wasn't this because she was well known anyway (working her way up through the Galbadian ranks and all)?

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I think the fact that the game is based around a time loop, and the fact that a lot of what happens requires a second playthrough to notice is what makes it brilliant.

^ I take back what I said... tbh, I actually got goosebumps on my second playthrough when it all came together. I guess my point was, that people who never play a second run through will probably never experience this, but then again, maybe they were never fans to begin with?

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

That's exactly what they did, but they did it in such a clever way you don't even notice it when playing it the first time around. Maybe it was because I used Xplosion when I first got this game and ended up replaying the game imediatly after completing it, thus having the orphanage thing fresh in my mind from the get-go. Also, I think I may have had multiple saves back then - I used to do that a lot as a kid with FFs, so I probably had a save state at the orphanage, or after, and a couple of save states on, say disk 1 or something. That's the only explaination I can think as to why hardly anyone seemed to notice the hints if not at the second playthrough but at least the third or fourth.

The thing I really like about these hints is that they work better in hindsight - any other method would have not only been a spoiler, but would have been cheesey as hell (Disk One: "Hey it feels like I know you"/Disk Two: "Hey, cool! I do know you!"). When you see them the first time, some of them may strike you as odd, but will still be ultimatley meaningless, and others will go straight over your head, but once you know how it all turns out, I'm really shocked that I was the only one who during his later playthrough went; "Oh, that's why Irvine took Selphie's recjection so personally", "Oh, that's how Squall knew Edea's name", "Oh, that's why Irvine couldn't shoot Edea". I'm not even feeling particularly at the moment, and I can still remember this much, and I know that there's a lot more, and that is why the orphanage is one of my favortie twists ever.

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I disagree, I think there could have been some creative foreshadowing that could have been played harder for the twist. Like having Squall just mention he knew something he subconsciously remembered about Selphie when he gave her the tour, or Irvine himself could have played it harder, with more careful prodding to see if he can get a reaction. I feel hindsight type plot twists only work when its the main significant plot twist in the story (like Sixth Sense) as opposed to a twist that really has no impact on the game beyond the second disc. By disc 3, you're trying to wrap your head around Ultimecia, Time Compression, and time travel, no one gives a damn about all of them being childhood acquaintances anymore. The twist really had no long lasting impact in the plot beyond changing which side Edea is on, and creating a forced understanding for the player why the party is tight knit. It could actually be written out of the plot and I strongly feel it wouldn't impact the game greatly.

Yeah, the Selphie tour was such a missed opportunity to do something neat xD

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Originally Posted by Eaglegun

I think the fact that the game is based around a time loop, and the fact that a lot of what happens requires a second playthrough to notice is what makes it brilliant.

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That's a very ill way to look at it :up:

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

Just curious! One for each category :)

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I think I was the only one who actually noticed that.

Also, it's a shame I'm still the only one who likes the orphanage scene - I really need to get that article done, but I have other projects to do first.

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You're not the only one!

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

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Originally Posted by Eaglegun

I think the fact that the game is based around a time loop, and the fact that a lot of what happens requires a second playthrough to notice is what makes it brilliant.

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That's a very ill way to look at it :up:

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Yeah. I find most players who are put off by the game for whatever reason end up lumping it down as all-out bad with no redeeming qualities. Very few things haven't done something well. I actually think FF8 does a lot well.

Anyway, my list:

Best: Honestly, the atmosphere. Especially at the beginning of the game. I feel like FF8 has the most chillin' pacing in the whole series. I mean right off you can explore the school, head over to Balamb for some sweet architecture and scenery. In most RPGs, the quiet beginnings usually lead up to a big disaster and the player always is anticipating the change of tone. Not FF8. Chillin'. Even IX's amazing opening has momentum to it that makes it more in line with something like VI or VII. Now, I'm not big on the world traversal in VIII (because they kind of cart you around and you never get the feeling of actually traveling the world and judging your progress by the terrain covered) but I just like how the game gives you instructions and then just is kind of like, 'well let me know when you've done it'. It contrasts well with the 'event' scenes like the parade or the train heist.

Worst: The fourth disc (minus awesome final castle). I can endure terrible plot twists and shaky characterization, but I absolutely hate when exploration-heavy RPGs cut off access to locations as the game winds down. Once you go through Time Compression or whatever it is, everything feels very empty. There really is only one thing to do but I like being able to do everything up to the final boss, leave and do some shopping in my favourite town, and then come back for a world-ending fight. Is it so much to ask? FFIX has this cop-out too, but not to the extent VIII does. (PS: I know why they do it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck for me as a player)

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Originally Posted by Flying Arrow

Worst: The fourth disc (minus awesome final castle). I can endure terrible plot twists and shaky characterization, but I absolutely hate when exploration-heavy RPGs cut off access to locations as the game winds down. Once you go through Time Compression or whatever it is, everything feels very empty. There really is only one thing to do but I like being able to do everything up to the final boss, leave and do some shopping in my favourite town, and then come back for a world-ending fight. Is it so much to ask? FFIX has this cop-out too, but not to the extent VIII does. (PS: I know why they do it, but that doesn't mean it doesn't suck for me as a player)

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It bugged me too; you were basically forced to enter the Castle with not much else to do sidequest wise. Wasn't it due to memory limitations of the disc though? Having to store all the pre-rendered backgrounds of every single city, town and cavern onto one disc (disc 4) would've been impossible. Still though, I get what you mean :(

Best: CARDS! woo! Also the early fmvs with the garden, like garden crashing into Balamb...the fishermanlol.

Worst: Squall, I just hate the character. Just one of the worst characters in FF, and certainly the worst lead character in the series.

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

It bugged me too; you were basically forced to enter the Castle with not much else to do sidequest wise. Wasn't it due to memory limitations of the disc though? Having to store all the pre-rendered backgrounds of every single city, town and cavern onto one disc (disc 4) would've been impossible. Still though, I get what you mean :(

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I'm pretty sure that it does have to do with memory limitations, but it was a huge disappointment especially after VII did such a good job with its world. I find it's almost always a bad idea to change a game's structure like this, especially if it's the last thing the player will take away from the game (being the end and all).

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Originally Posted by Meltdown

It bugged me too; you were basically forced to enter the Castle with not much else to do sidequest wise. Wasn't it due to memory limitations of the disc though? Having to store all the pre-rendered backgrounds of every single city, town and cavern onto one disc (disc 4) would've been impossible. Still though, I get what you mean :(

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But it looked kind of cool when you went to the world map on the final disc and there were magical barriers around every city.

Best: The escape from XATM092. That entire scene is incredibly fun, and I'm always torn between destroying it and letting it chase me so that I can see that brilliant FMV and seeing Quistis wreck the living crap out of it.
Worst: D-District prison, without a doubt. Repetitive running up and down the same corridors? What is this? A Hannah-Barbera cartoon?

best: disk 2 Fisherman horizon kind of a nice refreshing breather in the game relax and enjoy storyline a bit and take a little break after all the hectic stuff at the beginning of disk 2. i almost wanted to say Trabia garden for the same reason.

worst: i'd have to agree with many here the prison was by far the worst.

Best... Well, it was probably too long since I played it for me to make a qualified choice, but now that I've seen it in writing, I actually thought that the return to Garden after Missile Base (NORG/Cid? Evacuation/gallivanting in the basement) was pretty intense.

Worst: As much of an anticlimax as it was when I finally came face to face with Ultimecia (we... got off on the wrong foot, ya), I think the last Laguna-sequence bugged me the most, actually.

The best: I liked the fact that the game and scenario seemed to genuinely revolve around relationships with each other. I found it refreshing that the game focused more on the emotions of the characters. This in opposition to the usual recycled fare we normally get from an RPG; a bunch of generic archetypes who have to save the world from some mass impending doom.

The bad: The focus on romance was a wonderful addition. The outcome of this fantastic idea was decidedly woeful in my humble opinion. The whole saga was badly thought-out, and the chemistry between Squall and Rinoa was lacklustre at best, until the latter fell into a full-induced comatose state. I know a few men possibly prefer women like this, but I found it bizarre that the transformation of Squall is instantaneous upon the onset of Rinoa's condition. The same man who didn't flinch when she was being attacked by beasties during the segment dealing with the assassination of Sorceress Edea until heavily prompted by Irvine.

Probably read too much into this! haha

^ If you thought that Squall "suddenly" got feelings for Rinoa during her coma, you did the exact opposite of reading too much into it, you missed most of the storyline. The romance between Squall and Rinoa was beautifull and brilliantly handled.

The following was initially written as a response to someone else - it is directly quoted, but it should portray my views.

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Originally Posted by myself

Well, the key differences are that I liked the characters, and you seemingly didn't - so you may not take what I say seriously, but please, hear me out.

Firstly, I didn't find Rinoa annoying - she's one of my favorite characters in FF. I also noticed the chemistry in the relationship between her and Squall early on in the game, even when they are having their (deliberately) childish fights, which is a given sign in fiction (and real life in some cases). And yes, Squall was "silent", but that was because of his background - he'd been let down so many times in life he had given up expecting anything was going to get better.

It may seam like I'm starving for attention here, but I am just trying to help you understand my point - I actually went through a "Squall" like phase when I was younger (before I played FFVIII) - my life wasn't anywhere near as bad as Squall's, but a lot of things where happening, friends where leaving I was just not very good at making friends - I identified with Squall because of this, I have said this before, but he is my favorite FF character.

Squall is "silent", but we know from his thoughts that he does want to be more open, deep down there are many scenes that without these insights that would make Squall seam a much more uncaring person than he actually is.

Squall doesn't just "suddenly" fall in love with Rinoa - it happens gradually, like most Medias with a storyline FFVIII doesn't have a set timeline, so we don't know how much time has past between their first meeting, and time he acts more caring. Further more, he didn't begin to love her when he was in a coma either - it had been developing through out the game. There is definitely passion during the dance scene, He seams generally concerned for her safety when the Igniouns(sp?) have her cornered, just before the battle starts (even though, to me, they really don't look like they are make that much of an attempt to attack her - infact they look somewhat playful :jess:) After the battle Squall is initially shocked by Rinoa's reaction - he says it's because he assumed she was "used to battles", but I think it's because he isn't used to people displaying emotion in front of him. No one, not even Quistis (who is revealed to have had a crush of sorts on Squall in the past) has shown this much in front of him. His demeanor then changes, he reassures Rinoa, that everything is ok and basically tells her to "stay close to [him]" There is a touching moment in the battle coming up where Rinoa states that she's alright if Squall is by her side - After that battle Squall is almost killed, and Rinoa reacts more directly and personally than anyone else (admittedly the only other people present are Irvine, Seifer and Edea, and none of them are going to react!) If you look at Squall during that scene - he seams to be more focused on Rinoa that anyone, or anything happening in that scene.


In disc two - there are some optional scenes of them together. Squall is still learning how to act around people, but the two of them seem to have neutral understanding of how each other are now, Rinoa makes comments on how Squall is "expected" to act a certain way. When there is a ceremony for Squall becoming the leader there is a very romantic scene between him and Rinoa - we see how close they are now becoming, and once again Squall's thoughts are there to help us understand that Squall has the potential to change and Rinoa is helping him do just that. She seams to be pushing him to talk about something, just to see if he will open up, he of course doesn't, but his thoughts show us, that he is simply scared that if he does then it will all be for nothing - nobody stays around Squall. He's not the kind of person to be loved, but why would he care so much about some one, he supposedly doesn't care about.

I also think the infamous orphanage scene (which, I absolutely loved, but I have a whole article in writing as to why) was semi instrumental in getting Squall to open up more, he has time to think about this even in game time, he had lost so much more than he ever realized, and now sees that every one (sans Rinoa) went through a similar time as him when he was younger, I think he felt a bit more assured then. I also think it gave him more strength to open up with Rinoa.

Then the coma does take place - I didn't find his actions a change in character, I saw it coming. I really thought that Squall was falling in love with Rinoa as far back as disc 1 although I think that might have been more "I find her interesting" type of love, at first, but as time went by (remember we don't know the exact timeline) they got closer, and his love for her developed, he just needed to accept that he felt something for her, and get over his fears of losing someone again. You basically have to read between the lines sometimes - this is a shortened version on why I found Squall and Rinoa such a compelling couple, I may right a full article on it one day (it will take a while, so don't expect it to be instant - I do so many projects at once).

Thanks for reading this, I'm sorry if it was long, but it needed to be.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

^ If you thought that Squall "suddenly" got feelings for Rinoa during her coma, you did the exact opposite of reading too much into it, you missed most of the storyline. The romance between Squall and Rinoa was beautifull and brilliantly handled.

The following was initially written as a response to someone else - it is directly quoted, but it should portray my views.

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Originally Posted by myself

Well, the key differences are that I liked the characters, and you seemingly didn't - so you may not take what I say seriously, but please, hear me out.

Firstly, I didn't find Rinoa annoying - she's one of my favorite characters in FF. I also noticed the chemistry in the relationship between her and Squall early on in the game, even when they are having their (deliberately) childish fights, which is a given sign in fiction (and real life in some cases). And yes, Squall was "silent", but that was because of his background - he'd been let down so many times in life he had given up expecting anything was going to get better.

It may seam like I'm starving for attention here, but I am just trying to help you understand my point - I actually went through a "Squall" like phase when I was younger (before I played FFVIII) - my life wasn't anywhere near as bad as Squall's, but a lot of things where happening, friends where leaving I was just not very good at making friends - I identified with Squall because of this, I have said this before, but he is my favorite FF character.

Squall is "silent", but we know from his thoughts that he does want to be more open, deep down there are many scenes that without these insights that would make Squall seam a much more uncaring person than he actually is.

Squall doesn't just "suddenly" fall in love with Rinoa - it happens gradually, like most Medias with a storyline FFVIII doesn't have a set timeline, so we don't know how much time has past between their first meeting, and time he acts more caring. Further more, he didn't begin to love her when he was in a coma either - it had been developing through out the game. There is definitely passion during the dance scene, He seams generally concerned for her safety when the Igniouns(sp?) have her cornered, just before the battle starts (even though, to me, they really don't look like they are make that much of an attempt to attack her - infact they look somewhat playful :jess:) After the battle Squall is initially shocked by Rinoa's reaction - he says it's because he assumed she was "used to battles", but I think it's because he isn't used to people displaying emotion in front of him. No one, not even Quistis (who is revealed to have had a crush of sorts on Squall in the past) has shown this much in front of him. His demeanor then changes, he reassures Rinoa, that everything is ok and basically tells her to "stay close to [him]" There is a touching moment in the battle coming up where Rinoa states that she's alright if Squall is by her side - After that battle Squall is almost killed, and Rinoa reacts more directly and personally than anyone else (admittedly the only other people present are Irvine, Seifer and Edea, and none of them are going to react!) If you look at Squall during that scene - he seams to be more focused on Rinoa that anyone, or anything happening in that scene.


In disc two - there are some optional scenes of them together. Squall is still learning how to act around people, but the two of them seem to have neutral understanding of how each other are now, Rinoa makes comments on how Squall is "expected" to act a certain way. When there is a ceremony for Squall becoming the leader there is a very romantic scene between him and Rinoa - we see how close they are now becoming, and once again Squall's thoughts are there to help us understand that Squall has the potential to change and Rinoa is helping him do just that. She seams to be pushing him to talk about something, just to see if he will open up, he of course doesn't, but his thoughts show us, that he is simply scared that if he does then it will all be for nothing - nobody stays around Squall. He's not the kind of person to be loved, but why would he care so much about some one, he supposedly doesn't care about.

I also think the infamous orphanage scene (which, I absolutely loved, but I have a whole article in writing as to why) was semi instrumental in getting Squall to open up more, he has time to think about this even in game time, he had lost so much more than he ever realized, and now sees that every one (sans Rinoa) went through a similar time as him when he was younger, I think he felt a bit more assured then. I also think it gave him more strength to open up with Rinoa.

Then the coma does take place - I didn't find his actions a change in character, I saw it coming. I really thought that Squall was falling in love with Rinoa as far back as disc 1 although I think that might have been more "I find her interesting" type of love, at first, but as time went by (remember we don't know the exact timeline) they got closer, and his love for her developed, he just needed to accept that he felt something for her, and get over his fears of losing someone again. You basically have to read between the lines sometimes - this is a shortened version on why I found Squall and Rinoa such a compelling couple, I may right a full article on it one day (it will take a while, so don't expect it to be instant - I do so many projects at once).

Thanks for reading this, I'm sorry if it was long, but it needed to be.

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Sure, it is a fair and valid argument and I don't completely disregard the gradual development of feelings for the two leads. I found the direction of Squall's character to be quite an extreme degree of change upon the onset of Rinoa's condition. The piece is romantic, but seemed to be heavily hurried along for the purpose of moving the story forward.

Perhaps I am asking for too much, when there is a greater plot evident in the game that can only be so long. Although Squall and Rinoa's romance is also a very central piece, especially bringing another level of dimension to the Squall-Seifer relationship.

I do take on board your views. However since I am more of a fan of romance writing rather than fantasy...I forget sometimes that this game is coining a balance between the two. Personally I don't give a hoot about magical powers haha!

Asian literature has been known to be fond of melodrama so having reflected...the transformation formula doesn't seem too absurd if I look at it comparatively to other forms of writing throughout the far east; Korean TV Screen-writing, Cinema, etc.

I will replay the game shortly as I haven't done so for a few years. I guess I will either reiterate my conclusion or form another opinion.

When I first played the game, I was about 11 years old at the time? I did share the opinion that it was a brilliantly written love story. I just seemed to contest the view a little more as I grew older. Probably through reading other novel that dealt with love as the integral plot line. I will agree though, that for a video game, this is the best love story a developer has come up with. There maybe others but I don't find too much time to play new games these days so I may be misinformed on that part.

Take care.

Leigh: Regarding best videogame love story... You haven't wooed Jaheira in Baldur's Gate 2, I take it? :radred: True, that wasn't the main point of that game, as Squall+Rinoa is here, but that's grade-A stuff. Slower, true, more adult oriented (... no, they keep their clothes on; adult in ANOTHER way), but I found it more moving. And there weren't really that many conversation paths to follow that actually moved it along, either... Good stuff.

MJN SEIFER: Good reading, that. Squall's shock after the Iguions completely passed me by, however. Maybe I'm too not-japanese.

... Heh, I just did the maths! When I first played FF8, I was about the age of the protagonists! :)

The beginning of Disk 2 up until after Balamb Occupation is my favourite series of events in the game. You could include the ending of Disk 1 but going through the sewers pisses me off every time.

Best- The back story involving Laguna
Worst- Can't use Ultima because then my stats go down... MOST not all GF's being pointless in battle(as an actual summon, not their abilities etc.)... Lvl.5 Death... And number one the world map. It felt so empty and never hooked me in. FFIX,VI, IV had world maps that were creative and didn't have TONS of meaningless areas. (The railroad tracks early on were nice but nothing more comes to mind)

It's not really the best part of the game but since we're only allowed one Best and one Worst I figured I might as well make a theme of it.

Okay kiddies, let's talk about elementary storytelling.

BEST: There is an Evil Empire because there is always an Evil Empire in Final Fantasy. (well maybe not FFX but stop contradicting me! <<) The "President" of this totalitarian expansionist not-Evil Empire is some putz who no one really cares about.

Enter a real villain in the enigmatic Sorceress. Who is she? What is her objective? Who knows or really cares. Everyone pisses themselves when she comes around and it's only too apparent that the magically powerful epitome of evil itself won't just stand by and serve the aforementioned putz.

The situation is so dire that one of the not-Empire's generals enlists your aid in killing The Sorceress. That's right bucko - it's a straight-up assassination. Things like charging into the Evil Empire's Castle o' Doom and fighting them seems honorable and righteous but putting a bullet in their head is much more grizzly and makes you realize that SeeD is actually a mcercenary group and NOT a traveling band of heroes. (an idea that is lost like so much else in the wake of FFVIII's trainwreck of a narrative)

I adore the conspiratorial nature of the whole thing. It's almost like we are the second gunman.

Anyway, the whole atmosphere leading up to the assassination is rife with tension and expectancy. Not to mention great frickin' music.
Final Fantasy VIII - The Stage is Set [HQ] - YouTube

It's time to take that evil witch down!!!!!

WORST:
Quistis: D'aawwww shucks. I just can't arrange a murder while my conscience hurts because I called a stupid brat...a stupid brat.

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Well gee, looks like we better go through this sewer level to escape on time.


You know the Obligatory Sewer Level that everyone says is pretty much guaranteed to suck and probably be the worst part of the game?
THIS IS WHY.

All that suspense, all that dramatic build-up, all that atmosphere...it's gone, sinking beneath the feces-filled water that is the most fitting metaphor for FFVIII's storyline.

best: Catching rinoa in space. It's very romantic if you read the instructions. I also liked all the fmvs, especially any which involve balamb garden flying

Worst: The thing where you had to kill 8 monsters of the same colour or something on the ragnarok.

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Originally Posted by Benjirino~!

Best: The escape from XATM092. That entire scene is incredibly fun, and I'm always torn between destroying it and letting it chase me so that I can see that brilliant FMV and seeing Quistis wreck the living crap out of it.
Worst: D-District prison, without a doubt. Repetitive running up and down the same corridors? What is this? A Hannah-Barbera cartoon?

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This!!

Best: Eyes on Me. Balamb Garden in it's entirety. Balamb Garden Civil War. Battle of the Gardens. And just the entire universe and setting of the game, I would love to live in a world like that, especially if I were in training to become a SeeD.

Worst: Esthar. The Orphanage (seriously wtf?). Lunatic Pandora. SPAAAAACCCCEEEEE! Not being able to return to Galbadia Garden after the Battle of the Gardens. Quistis' stupidity in deciding to run back to apologize to Rinoa in the middle of their mission. Seifer's obsession with being the "knight."

You know, I get it's all opinion, but I'm still suprised so many people hate the orphanage twist. I thought it was very well written, and clever how they foreshadowed it.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

You know, I get it's all opinion, but I'm still suprised so many people hate the orphanage twist. I thought it was very well written, and clever how they foreshadowed it.

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They foreshadowed it?

I just sort of saw it as just plain absurd, I think that's when the game really jumped the shark, right at that moment. Which is really a shame since Trabia Garden could have been such a great experience, but there was nothing to it. There were no side quests or anything, it was such a beautiful environment and setting, but they decided to waste it by making it so there is absolutely nothing to do there, and the only thing that happens is the orphanage scene. Or is there more that can be done at Trabia Garden and I missed it?

Yeah, they foreshadow it. The clever thing is, they foreshadow it in such a subtle way you don't notice it until after you've already played the game. It would have been stupid if they had litterally mentioned the fact they look familiar or something. What they did, was they made it out that certain characters were acting the way they expected each other to. Irvine was the only one who remembered from the start, but when they don't react he probably comes to the conclusion that he's got the wrong people - he only restarts his theory when Edea comes into play. There are other hints, such as Squall recognizing Edea's name, Irvine not wanting to shoot her (with a feeble excuse to cover it), pretty much all of Ellone's scenes has her speaking to characters like she knew them, also it was a good way of developing Squall better, like how he'd always viewed the world like friendships end, and now everyones here again. I really loved how they handled it.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Yeah, they foreshadow it. The clever thing is, they foreshadow it in such a subtle way you don't notice it until after you've already played the game. It would have been stupid if they had litterally mentioned the fact they look familiar or something. What they did, was they made it out that certain characters were acting the way they expected each other to. Irvine was the only one who remembered from the start, but when they don't react he probably comes to the conclusion that he's got the wrong people - he only restarts his theory when Edea comes into play. There are other hints, such as Squall recognizing Edea's name, Irvine not wanting to shoot her (with a feeble excuse to cover it), pretty much all of Ellone's scenes has her speaking to characters like she knew them, also it was a good way of developing Squall better, like how he'd always viewed the world like friendships end, and now everyones here again. I really loved how they handled it.

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I still say the Squall is Dead theory is more likely.

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Yeah, they foreshadow it. The clever thing is, they foreshadow it in such a subtle way you don't notice it until after you've already played the game. It would have been stupid if they had litterally mentioned the fact they look familiar or something. What they did, was they made it out that certain characters were acting the way they expected each other to. Irvine was the only one who remembered from the start, but when they don't react he probably comes to the conclusion that he's got the wrong people - he only restarts his theory when Edea comes into play. There are other hints, such as Squall recognizing Edea's name, Irvine not wanting to shoot her (with a feeble excuse to cover it), pretty much all of Ellone's scenes has her speaking to characters like she knew them, also it was a good way of developing Squall better, like how he'd always viewed the world like friendships end, and now everyones here again. I really loved how they handled it.

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Yeah, but it was kind of cheesy that exactly those who were together at orphanage got teamed up like that. Except Rinoa of course.

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Rising

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Yeah, they foreshadow it. The clever thing is, they foreshadow it in such a subtle way you don't notice it until after you've already played the game. It would have been stupid if they had litterally mentioned the fact they look familiar or something. What they did, was they made it out that certain characters were acting the way they expected each other to. Irvine was the only one who remembered from the start, but when they don't react he probably comes to the conclusion that he's got the wrong people - he only restarts his theory when Edea comes into play. There are other hints, such as Squall recognizing Edea's name, Irvine not wanting to shoot her (with a feeble excuse to cover it), pretty much all of Ellone's scenes has her speaking to characters like she knew them, also it was a good way of developing Squall better, like how he'd always viewed the world like friendships end, and now everyones here again. I really loved how they handled it.

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I still say the Squall is Dead theory is more likely.

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I'd say the most likely theory is that they didn't really put much thought into what they were writing, and wrote themselves into a corner, so the GFs made them forget.

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Originally Posted by fierytempest

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Originally Posted by Phoenix Rising

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Originally Posted by MJN SEIFER

Yeah, they foreshadow it. The clever thing is, they foreshadow it in such a subtle way you don't notice it until after you've already played the game. It would have been stupid if they had litterally mentioned the fact they look familiar or something. What they did, was they made it out that certain characters were acting the way they expected each other to. Irvine was the only one who remembered from the start, but when they don't react he probably comes to the conclusion that he's got the wrong people - he only restarts his theory when Edea comes into play. There are other hints, such as Squall recognizing Edea's name, Irvine not wanting to shoot her (with a feeble excuse to cover it), pretty much all of Ellone's scenes has her speaking to characters like she knew them, also it was a good way of developing Squall better, like how he'd always viewed the world like friendships end, and now everyones here again. I really loved how they handled it.

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I still say the Squall is Dead theory is more likely.

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I'd say the most likely theory is that they didn't really put much thought into what they were writing, and wrote themselves into a corner, so the GFs made them forget.

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Even if they didn't put a lot of thought into it, why did almost everything after Disk 1 seem like a completely different game altogether? It was fairly realistic and believable, then you have things like Moombas. You also have entire side plots that are brought up and then subsequently dropped, such as NORG and Rinoa's relationship with Seifer.

Moombas aren't any less believable than Moogles from previous entries in the series.

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Originally Posted by fierytempest

Moombas aren't any less believable than Moogles from previous entries in the series.

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I like to take each Final Fantasy game individually, and yes there are several strange fantasy creatures (sentient and non-sentient) in them. It just seemed so out of place in FFVIII though, especially since they seemed to come out of nowhere half-way throughout the game when there didn't appear to be any hint of such beings existing in the first quarter of the game. It all seemed very realistic and believable, for the first disk, but after that things just seemed out-of-place and not realistic.

Again, I really don't think they put that much thought into it. The probably had crappy writers. Most Final Fantasy titles have really stupid and gaping plot holes.