Any thoughts on why the direction of Final Fantasy has become... Poor?

I love Final Fantasy. I have played every game. Beaten every game including XI (Have nothing left to even do...) besides XIV... XIV was extremely pathetic in my opinion... Anyways I started this thread because I just can't fathom what has become of Final Fantasy.

While I am disappointed with FFXIII and its sequel.. I do not find them to be horrible games... They just do not have the FF feel to them. FFXIII-2, ok you can go where you want... But it's not an open world like all of the other FFs... It's disappointing. I know FFXI and FFXIV are open worlds, but they should have been called "FF Online." Back to FFXIII-2, a time travel system? Really? A time travel system that's like a Megaman stage select... wtf? i know FF1 and FF8 had time travel but it was at the end of the game... not like this ... lol.. I dunno... I'm sorry I feel this way I just.... By the way what happend to Versus XIII? We've only heard about that since.... 2005? Development hell?

If you notice... It takes them longer and longer to make a final fantasy game, yet they can make a crappy FF and 2 sequels... That aren't too good. I just don't understand the logic? Again, I hate to bash this company I love, but what the smurf are they thinking?

The real reason I think they won't make an FF7 remake is because they are afraid they'd smurf it up. Look at the trout they put out recently. I can't remember the last good game SE has put out. I did LOVE FFXII, but to me, lately I just feel the company is going down the tubes. My favorite FF games are FF4, FF6, FF7, FF8 and FF12... 7 being my favorite, I have played all of them as I've said. I seen another thread on another forum saying the demand has to stop for the FFVII remake. Why? Look at what they're giving us.

As you can tell I am a huge FF fan, but I'm just very disappointed at what SE is doing with this franchise. We need the open worlds back, the airships you fly, the crystals, and of course, that final fantasy atmosphere... I miss the good old days... I know all good things come to an end, but damn I hope Final Fantasy doesn't end this way...

The main problem is probably not overall quality of Final Fantasy's anymore. You yourself just said you loved Final Fantasy XII, the Final Fantasy that came immediately before XIII. They're big problem is the time it takes to develop a new one. XIII has fans, but if you don't like it you are likely to wait 7 years for a new one, making the company seem unable to produce games anymore, because you had a sour taste in the last one you waited 7 years for. But, in single player experiences you've enjoyed, you only seem to be disappointed with their newest addition, not even the latest two.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

The main problem is probably not overall quality of Final Fantasy's anymore. You yourself just said you loved Final Fantasy XII, the Final Fantasy that came immediately before XIII. They're big problem is the time it takes to develop a new one. XIII has fans, but if you don't like it you are likely to wait 7 years for a new one, making the company seem unable to produce games anymore, because you had a sour taste in the last one you waited 7 years for. But, in single player experiences you've enjoyed, you only seem to be disappointed with their newest addition, not even the latest two.

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Well, to be honest.. It isn't just the "latest two" I thought 10 was pretty lame. Tidus was cheesy, story was lame, Seymour... lol. XI should have been called FFOnline. Same with horrible 14... 13, read in my first post. FFXII was very good. Again, this is my opinion. Also XII did not come out immediately before XIII... It came 3.5 years before. So why wait all that time for a crappy FF... Is this what they're going to be from now on? Why are they hiding Versus XIII? FF 1-9 that's what Final Fantasy is to me. XII was brilliantly different while still having an FF feel to it. I mean are you personally pleased with what FFXIII and XIII-2 are? Omg... How about X-2? I forgot about that trash.

The 3.5 years between XII-XIII is exactly my point. You liked 12, you didn't like 13, their record for the past two games therefore is good - can't expect everyone to like every game they put out, but it seems bad, because the wait for XIII was so bad.

X was also hailed very well, and where you may have disliked it, it has a huge following (myself included). FFXI was a very successful MMO, if you don't like MMO's that's preference. I'm not going to call Final Fantasy a "sunk" franchise because of a mediocre performance with 13.

First off, agreed with the online thing. We waste a series spot like that? Just sorta bugs me. Now, I don't mind renovation in a series, which is usually what Square aims at. Trying to use new things to attract fans rather than recycling everything and pasting a different story onto it. Do they ALWAYS do it right? Well, no. Just take a look at 8 for example. Drawing magic sucks. And they tried a plot that revolved around a love story. Did it work perfectly? Well, yes and no. Some people will defend this game to their deathbeds. Some will dog on it so much that fanboys will be provoked to buy a Gunblade and stab them. 9 tried a throwback to everything we missed, the old days. It was a different game then 8. Did it work? Yes and no. Some people loved it, some hated it and hated Steiner more than anything. See what I'm getting at? I think Final Fantasy has one of the most diverse fan bases of all time. I've met people who hated everything after 6 and some who thought that 1-6 were boring and lacked a lot. Square has a BIG audience to appeal too. I think renovation is a good idea, believe me, I hate companies that copy and paste from the last game and stamp a different story onto it. (Coming from me, who plays Pokemon.) But I love Square for its renovations. Is it always perfect? No, but nothing is. I mean, I love 7, hate 8, but still play it for some reason, I love 9, I have mixed feelings on 10, 10-2 gave me more mixed feelings, 12 was different, but I liked it very much, 13 was a hallway, but it sure was an amazing hallway, with golden doorknobs, and streamers, and everything. 13-2, I've never been a fan of time travel games, but it was still a nice experience. It was like 13, but I was able to open some of the doors in the hallway and explore them a little. While I do love the old games, renovation is usually necessary to attract more fans. Okay, rants over, go home.

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We need the open worlds back, the airships you fly, the crystals, and of course

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Do you realize there isn't a single open world FF, SE barely develop a 3D JRPG on console in a timely fashion and you want an open world game which means a more disjoint experience than what we have now from XII or XIII.

Overall, just hope for the best there isn't anything would magically change FF to better at least to me at the moment. What i want from FF is a new content, new magic(plot based magic/weapons), new monsters, new summons, many story NPCs, a new setting never used before in FF, a big and complex mega cities with many activities and entertainments, worldmaps and many vehicles but what a new JRPG about nowadays are guild-esque towns(not even an HQ like PE/Suikoden/Reishiki), mainquest is actually a sidequest, cheap nostalgia induce and tons of cameos, big maps of nothing but monsters and a vast region of nothing going on.

So what SE need to do? I don't know but i am sure as hell i don't want an old school wannabe or today's RPG trends either.

>>> Easy, FF is all about money now..:luca:

I don't think Final Fantasy has fallen off. Gaming has. :D

Ok, on a more serious note, short answer is the current generation landscape. This generation has messed a lot of people up. Developers either have to make an HD game or a handheld game. If you're handheld, you're automatically niche and Final Fantasy has always been cutting edge, so they have to go HD. But handheld is where all the gameplay innovation and RPG classics is taking place right now. An HD game takes so much time and money to get your tools ready and to pay the huge staff you need to make everything. I also have a personal feeling that big teams require generic ideas. I think after developing and re-finalizing a game engine, getting everything ready for the Xbox port, and working on the 16 spin-off games the FFXIII lead developers were making while they were supposed to be making the next Final Fantasy caused them to make a half-ass product. All it was was cutscenes and battles. No exploration. No events. Superficial customization. No investigation. No mini-game events to change the pace. Just cutscenes. And battles.

You can probably count the truly great HD RPGs on one hand... Developers are terrified at making a quality HD game while still pushing the genre forward with meaningful innovation. So they retreat to handhelds. But FF can't do that.

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Originally Posted by Red Mage Coffman

13 was a hallway, but it sure was an amazing hallway, with golden doorknobs, and streamers, and everything.

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This was an awesome summation of FFXIII. I enjoyed the game a lot, but this is the truth.

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Originally Posted by black orb

>>> Easy, FF is all about money now..:luca:

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Lol, FF is always about business or did we forget how Square kept announcing sequels and clones to FF1, changing game names such as gemma knights into FF gaiden to sell more and changing direction from PC oriented games to console RPGs.

Bottom line check out Square's pre-FF1 and after FF1 then tell me FF wasn't about money.

>>> Again, FF is all about money now..
FF should have died long time ago, since Sakaguchi left if im not wrong..:luca:

Yeah this is an issue of more concern and I too think that the core reason behind its poor direction is the business and frequent release of the series. So, anything that is done in less time indeed lack some thing.

I still insist that it has become different rather than poor. I'm a huge fan of FFXIII and FFXIII-2 xD

Different is wrong, Jesswee. You should know this by now!

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Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪

I still insist that it has become different rather than poor. I'm a huge fan of FFXIII and FFXIII-2 xD

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I'm wary of a big return to the more retro "open world" style of VII and VIII. Final Fantasy is an ever changing franchise, you can't expect the same format every time; it may not be to everyones taste, but some people like XIII and XIII-2. Hell, Famitsu gave it a perfect 40/40.

I think people keep misunderstanding. If you're talking about FF games being "open world", well they weren't. Calling FF "open-world" places it in a category that it seriously doesn't belong to.

FFXI was open world. :p

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

FFXI was open world. :p

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It is an MMO.
http://i46.:bou::bou::bou::bou::bou:...u:/3128sog.jpg

In fact if you look at a large portion of the 'dungeons' you run through in FF7-9 they are very hallway like. It's just the camera PoV that keeps things interesting.

You're right, but I think for clarification we should note there's a difference between FFVII-IX hallway and FFXIII hallway.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

You're right, but I think for clarification we should note there's a difference between FFVII-IX hallway and FFXIII hallway.

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FFVII - IX's hallway had the illusion of choice and freedom, while FFXIII's maps just basically straight up told you you were in for corridors. The map in this link just shows it. Like a marathon.

As a fan, Final Fantasy has taken a massive dive, I'm enormously disappointed with Square Enix, and the series should return to its roots.

As an outside observer, contemporary Final Fantasy games are miles better than the classics in many regards, and any attempt to make games like they used to be would be a huge leap backwards.

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Originally Posted by Quinter Wonderland

As a fan, Final Fantasy has taken a massive dive, I'm enormously disappointed with Square Enix, and the series should return to its roots.

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I am FF fan but no thanks, between ports, remakes, FF dimensions, 4WoL, BDFF and tons of cameos in pretty much any newly released FF, I am pretty much done with "return to roots" thing and low spec games, I am more interested in FF as bleeding edge series.

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Originally Posted by black orb

>>> Again, FF is all about money now..
FF should have died long time ago, since Sakaguchi left if im not wrong..:luca:

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Final Fantasy was always about the money. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise.

And Sakaguchi is far from a good-game-guarantee. There's like half a dozen games he's been involved in that aren't particularly good. Decent, maybe. Great? No. I think you should take those rose tinted glasses off.

^ Especially in his post-Square years. There's a reason Archaic Sealed Heat wasn't localized...

Archaic Sealed Heat? Is that seriously a real game title? :p.

Yes, and it was something I was looking forward to immensely, another star-pairing title with Sakaguchi, and supposedly it failed miserably...

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Originally Posted by Mirage

There's like half a dozen games he's been involved in that aren't particularly good.

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>>> None of them are Final Fantasy..:luca:

Play FF6 or FF7, to create such games obviously you need more motivation than just money..

So what if they aren't Final Fantasy? If you're a good game designer, the name of your game wouldn't have an impact on the quality of the game.

I never said money was the only motivation. I said all Final Fantasy games were made with making money as one of the important goals.

Most of the newer games were made with more motivation than just money too. It's just that they suck because the people making them aren't in touch with what the fans want.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

So what if they aren't Final Fantasy? If you're a good game designer, the name of your game wouldn't have an impact on the quality of the game.

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>>> Some people is only good for one thing, like George Lucas and Star Wars (i think it was sold to Disney now. lol..)

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I never said money was the only motivation. I said all Final Fantasy games were made with making money as one of the important goals.

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>>> Thats right, if they only wanted money FF9 would have been just another FF7-FF8 clone (like ff13)..

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Most of the newer games were made with more motivation than just money too. It's just that they suck because the people making them aren't in touch with what the fans want.

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>>> Im sure they realize their own lack of talent for FF games. With that in mind, the only reason for them to keep at it is just the money/FF fanboys (which are pretty much the same thing)..

I'm not sure if I can take you seriously when you call FF13 a FF7/8 clone.

>>> My wrong, FF13 is a "failed" FF7-FF8 clone..:luca:

Sorry dude, that still doesn't make any sense. In what way did it attempt to clone FF7 or FF8?

Have you actually played the game?

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Sorry dude, that still doesn't make any sense. In what way did it attempt to clone FF7 or FF8?

Have you actually played the game?

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Clothing and weapons? i don't know but i am sure it a stupid reason either way. If XIII is cloned from VII/VIII then what about FF1~FF6? same games because of reusing assets and engine.

I didn't think FFXIII was all that bad, but I'm worried about SE's production methods. With FFs 1-10, Squaresoft released an FF every 1-2 years or so. Now their budgets are gigantic compared to the earlier FFs, they need about 5 years to produce an FF (even longer for FF Versus XIII), and the only noticeable thing that has been improved is the graphics. I'd have hoped that larger budgets + longer production times = better writing, but the storyline still could have been better in FFXIII, IMHO. While it is an enjoyable story, there's still plenty of melodrama, and the final parts felt extremely rushed. Another thing that I dislike is the way how the series is losing their identity, the features that make FFs so unique. Remove Chocoboes, Odin, Shiva and Bahamut from FFXIII, and rename the game to "Lightning's Story, Part I", and you wouldn't even know it's an FF. :p Many of the core RPG elements have also been removed (such as NPCs, towns, exploring, making choices etc), making the game feel more like an interactive movie, with some battle scenes. I'm glad FFXIII-2 brought some of those RPG-ish features back.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

The 3.5 years between XII-XIII is exactly my point. You liked 12, you didn't like 13, their record for the past two games therefore is good - can't expect everyone to like every game they put out, but it seems bad, because the wait for XIII was so bad.

X was also hailed very well, and where you may have disliked it, it has a huge following (myself included). FFXI was a very successful MMO, if you don't like MMO's that's preference. I'm not going to call Final Fantasy a "sunk" franchise because of a mediocre performance with 13.

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No, you said "Immediately before it" but 3.5 years is not immediately before it. I guess we differ opinions on that as well. That's fine if you liked FFX, I did not. I thought it was very dull with boring bland characters... my opinion. I havet said it was a sunk franchise, either. I stated that the games have become poor.. Then youll probably say I liked 12, which I did... but bear with me a moment...

FFI- Started it all, jobs, monsters, magic... no real deep story but it was good!
FFII - the weakest of the FF's until we get to FFX.. (MY OPINION!) No real level up system...
FFIII - numerous jobs, able to change jobs on the fly... pretty neat.
FFIV - Pretty Deep story, great music and characters
FFV - Bartz, while not a great main character, the gameplay is there... and how about Gilgamesh?!
FFVI - Simply amazing, from great characters to music, to the Esper system.. Simply amazing.
FFVII - My personal favorite, loveable characters, great materia system, great story.. and hey you can breed your own chocobos!
FFVIII - Pretty deep plot, likeable characters, great music, only drawback is the Draw system... but I really didn't mind it.
FFIX - A fantastic throwback to oldtime FF Style! Pretty similar to FFIV in the way each character has a specific job, but the ability learning system is VERY unique!
FFX - Didn't like it. Seymour Guado.. his voice, his look.. how can you not laugh.
FFX-2 - Hated it.
FFXI - Should have been Called FFOnline (Took a long time to grind and with a job and having a real life kinda hard to enjoy it.. Main story stunk COP was decent tho)
FFXII - Was pretty good! I was pleasantly surprised...
FFXIII - No Final Fantasy Feel whatsoever... Shiva is a Motorcycle.. Yeah, enough said.
FFXIII-2 - Using a MegaMan stage select for time travel is not the way Final Fantasy should be >.>
FFXIV - Can we completely scrap this and act like it never existed.

Do you see my point? I'm not saying every FF Game is bad, I understand each one is unique... but you have to ADMIT they have dropped in quality BIG TIME from The Cecil and Kane, Cloud and Aerith Days.

I feel as your taking this personal I don't like FFX. It's just my opinion.. but it should be a fact they have dropped TREMENDOUSLY in quality.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth1999AD

I didn't think FFXIII was all that bad, but I'm worried about SE's production methods. With FFs 1-10, Squaresoft released an FF every 1-2 years or so. Now their budgets are gigantic compared to the earlier FFs, they need about 5 years to produce an FF (even longer for FF Versus XIII), and the only noticeable thing that has been improved is the graphics. I'd have hoped that larger budgets + longer production times = better writing, but the storyline still could have been better in FFXIII, IMHO. While it is an enjoyable story, there's still plenty of melodrama, and the final parts felt extremely rushed. Another thing that I dislike is the way how the series is losing their identity, the features that make FFs so unique. Remove Chocoboes, Odin, Shiva and Bahamut from FFXIII, and rename the game to "Lightning's Story, Part I", and you wouldn't even know it's an FF. :p Many of the core RPG elements have also been removed (such as NPCs, towns, exploring, making choices etc), making the game feel more like an interactive movie, with some battle scenes. I'm glad FFXIII-2 brought some of those RPG-ish features back.

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Exactly... FF's in the early days was 1 every 1-2 years... For example...

FF7 was 1997, FF8 was 1999, FF9 was 2000, FF10 was 2001....

And in all honesty I don't think FFXIII is a BAD game... It just does not have the FF feel to it... in my opinion, it's just not a GREAT FF game. Turning Shiva into a motorcycle killed it for me tho.. :(

My ideas on what make a Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy:

1. Amazing music scores. Nobuo Uematsu was a genius with high quality music. Final Fantasy IX has the best music of any game I've ever seen, and then X comes close, with VIII and VII right behind. The earlier stuff is really good, too, but not quite my taste as much. XII, XIII, X-2, and XIII-2 had good soundtracks, but not the GREAT of the other 4 I mentioned.

2. A (compelling) story that actually makes sense. Again, Final Fantasy IX, X, and VII come to mind. VIII, too, until you get to Edea's assassination, and then the entire story after that is crap. IV and V were great, too. Hell, even if the story for I wasn't compelling, it made sense, unlike XIII and XII. XIII-2 made a bit more sense than XIII, and was easier to follow, but it still had some gray areas that just make it feel strange.

3. Great characters that are intertwined with the plot. Every non-optional character in Final Fantasy I-IX is necessary for the plot except for Edward in IV. If you removed any character, the plot would either be changed drastically, wouldn't work at all, or would have a VERY hard time staying on its original path. This is untrue of X, XII, and XIII, though. I found Tidus, Vaan, Penelo, Hope, Snow, and Sazh to be completely unnecessary in their own games. Remove any of them, and sure the plot will change a little, but it will still be pretty close, and will still work(if we're assuming XII and XIII's plots actually do work).

4. Real towns and areas to explore, and not just to run through. I-IX and XII had these in abundance. X, X-2, and XIII-2 had some areas that you could really explore. XIII had none. However, I still don't really count XII in that because though you could explore all the areas, there was never once a single thing to actually find, unless you stumbled upon a rare drop/spawn out of pure luck.

5. Replayability, and being able to play with more than 1 viable strategy. I-IX were great with this, and X was pretty good with it, even if your characters were pretty specialized until pretty late in the game. XII had more of this than any other game, whereas XIII, XIII-2, and X-2 you barely had any choice in a lot of encounters. There was one specific way to beat things, and if you didn't do it, you lost.

So, overall, the only ones I think contain all of these elements are I-IX, excluding VIII. Those are what I consider Final Fantasies in my mind, with X being pretty close to the definition. I think that's why I haven't like the new ones as "Final Fantasies", but instead just liked them as "JRPGs". They don't capture the old magic, sure, but I still think they're all great games. Just not Final Fantasy worthy like the old ones.

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Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy

My ideas on what make a Final Fantasy a Final Fantasy:

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3. Great characters that are intertwined with the plot. Every non-optional character in Final Fantasy I-IX is necessary for the plot except for Edward in IV. If you removed any character, the plot would either be changed drastically, wouldn't work at all, or would have a VERY hard time staying on its original path. This is untrue of X, XII, and XIII, though. I found Tidus, Vaan, Penelo, Hope, Snow, and Sazh to be completely unnecessary in their own games. Remove any of them, and sure the plot will change a little, but it will still be pretty close, and will still work(if we're assuming XII and XIII's plots actually do work).

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The FFVIII haters are going to get in on you for that one, but I see what you're saying. Pretty good post and summary if you ask me.

I do kinda agree that FFI-IX were it as far as the "Final Fantasy" Final Fantasy games. I love X and XII but I'm the first to admit XII just doesn't operate along the same lines as the other games and while I still think X is one of the best games I've ever played... Let me just put it this way, the music rocks, but it's just not the same style as previous titles, even the newer ones when they started using samples of real instruments.

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Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy

3. Great characters that are intertwined with the plot. Every non-optional character in Final Fantasy I-IX is necessary for the plot except for Edward in IV. If you removed any character, the plot would either be changed drastically, wouldn't work at all, or would have a VERY hard time staying on its original path. This is untrue of X, XII, and XIII, though. I found Tidus, Vaan, Penelo, Hope, Snow, and Sazh to be completely unnecessary in their own games. Remove any of them, and sure the plot will change a little, but it will still be pretty close, and will still work(if we're assuming XII and XIII's plots actually do work).

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I disagree with Tidus here. While I agree that much of the storyline, specifically the pilgrimage, would largely go unchanged, the entire Jecht, Yevon and Dream Zanarkand plotline would be unconnected to the main characters. The story of DZ is a very important part of FFX and this is where Tidus shines, as well as (IMO) fully taking over as the main protagonist after the pilgrimage is over.

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5. Replayability, and being able to play with more than 1 viable strategy. I-IX were great with this, and X was pretty good with it, even if your characters were pretty specialized until pretty late in the game. XII had more of this than any other game, whereas XIII, XIII-2, and X-2 you barely had any choice in a lot of encounters. There was one specific way to beat things, and if you didn't do it, you lost.

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I really don't see how X-2 fits in here. I get what you mean with XIII and XIII-2, but X-2? The game gives you 6 different jobs pretty much right off the bat and you consistently get more - and all of them are viable options to face the encounters you're given. Also, I don't think XII is really that good in this aspect.

IMO the newer FFs are far from bad.

But yes I do think they've gone downhill though, and I attribute it to the departure of Sakaguchi (and Uematsu when it comes to the music)
Whether that's right or not I don't know, I recall someone claiming Sakaguchi didn't have a lot of involvement in the first place, but funny how IMO it declined just after they left.

Playing Lost Odyssey, created by their newer company Mistwalker, only served to reinforce that theory as I found it delightfully awesome.

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Originally Posted by Cloudane

IMO the newer FFs are far from bad.

But yes I do think they've gone downhill though, and I attribute it to the departure of Sakaguchi (and Uematsu when it comes to the music)
Whether that's right or not I don't know, I recall someone claiming Sakaguchi didn't have a lot of involvement in the first place, but funny how IMO it declined just after they left.

Playing Lost Odyssey, created by their newer company Mistwalker, only served to reinforce that theory as I found it delightfully awesome.

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I disagree. Having recently beaten The Last Story, which I consider good (just good though), I can't help but notice that story and character-wise (gameplay aside, since it was indeed pretty awesome) it has pretty much the same problem as FF. I mean, Zael and Calista's "relationship" was so forced and their personalities were so bland that I felt the need to vomit sometimes. Though I might have been biased, because I played it right after Xenoblade, which had a much more awesome love theme (and is, to me, the best game of all time).

The other characters are all quirky and interesting, though, so they pretty much even out the narm-enducing lead characters.

Also, the music, while incredible, is IMO comparable in quality to the soundtracks of FFXII, XIII and again, Xenoblade. So I don't think it's just about the people. Since FFs have as good soundtracks as they would have had with Ueamtsu there.

Maybe this is when we all realize that we've grown up, but the stories of the game series we play have not?

Maybe it simply did not take nearly as much good writing to impress us 10 years ago as it does now.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

I disagree with Tidus here. While I agree that much of the storyline, specifically the pilgrimage, would largely go unchanged, the entire Jecht, Yevon and Dream Zanarkand plotline would be unconnected to the main characters. The story of DZ is a very important part of FFX and this is where Tidus shines, as well as (IMO) fully taking over as the main protagonist after the pilgrimage is over.

I really don't see how X-2 fits in here. I get what you mean with XIII and XIII-2, but X-2? The game gives you 6 different jobs pretty much right off the bat and you consistently get more - and all of them are viable options to face the encounters you're given. Also, I don't think XII is really that good in this aspect.

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Well, without Tidus in X, there isn't a whole lot of reason to have the Dream Zanarkand storyarc. Sin/Jecht would just be a final boss in the same sense as Kuja was; just a guy who they needed to kill, and at the end redeems himself before death, somehow. And it would be through Auron instead of through Tidus.

And the reason that X-2 fits is really for the second half of the game, where you're pretty much required to go Dark Knight/Dark Knight/Alchemist, Mascot/Mascot/Mascot, or White Mage/Dark Knight/Mascot. You can't just throw a random party together and win with a good enough strategy, like you can with the other Final Fantasies. Unless you're drastically overlevelled, a party you just throw together randomly won't work, no matter the strategy you use.

Without Tidus in FFX, Yuna would have sacrificed herself and a guardian to summon her final aeon, crushed Sin, then Yu-Yevon would have taken over the final aeon and the cycle would have continued.

Tidus broke the cycle, that's why he's important.

I don't know, I think in my opinion on the story, Auron and Yuna broke the cycle. But this isn't a thread about the FFX storyline. But you should expect to find one soon :greenie:

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Originally Posted by FFIX Choco Boy

And the reason that X-2 fits is really for the second half of the game, where you're pretty much required to go Dark Knight/Dark Knight/Alchemist, Mascot/Mascot/Mascot, or White Mage/Dark Knight/Mascot. You can't just throw a random party together and win with a good enough strategy, like you can with the other Final Fantasies. Unless you're drastically overlevelled, a party you just throw together randomly won't work, no matter the strategy you use.

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I disagree. In the storyline, the bosses are never too difficult to require Mascot, Dark Knight or Alchemist. A White Mage is a great healer by himself - and you don't even need him either.
On my first playthrough, I played ONLY with the standard dress spheres, Gunner, Thief and Warrior (yeah I was stupid) and only on the standard Garment Grid. I went through Chapter 1 and 5 doing absolutely no sidequests (I didn't realize they were gonna be over until they were) and overall did few sidequests in general. Yet, I made it through the entire game. Of course, I did have a bunch of Game Overs on my way (smurf Vegnagun's Tail) but it definitely worked in the end.
The one part I can say you have little choice is the Via Infinito. Since the enemies there can take you out even if you're on Level 99 with fully leveled Mascots, you're pretty much forced to pull out your strongest guns. But since it's still challenging nontheless, I don't have a problem with it.

Himself? But all the white mages in X-2 are females :<. You sexist.