We can rebuild him, make him faster, stronger...

For awhile now there has been a dialogue, or more correctly people shouting and no one listening... about the future and direction of the genre. About whether the glory age of big budget JRPGs has fallen and shifted to smaller but niche fanbases. On whether the WRPG has risen again and will pave the new future of the genre or if this is simply another fad before their fifteen minutes are up and be shifted to the huge sales of MMOs that are fighting the new issue of paid service or F2P models.

This is not a thread really about that, this is actually more about what you want to see in the future of the genre as a whole. Let's assume for the sake of argument that the genre is on the ropes, what do you feel would improve the genre and what would you like to see in the next console generation?

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For me turn based/semi turn based is a big thing that attracts me to combat. if I want something faster and more real time, well then I play a different genre.

That an less melodrama in character 'development'. I would rather have a far simpler game with characters that aren't as fleshed out than have characters where I have to experience their entire whiny life story in agonizing detail. Good character exposition is difficult to do, that's why it is remembered when it is done well. Don't treat it like a check box to tick. If you can't do it well, or it doesn't fit your game then leave some things up to the imagination.

I expect a Renaissance incoming. Right now we are seeing the beginnings of "AA"/double-A development in gaming. For years most of the publisher's tried to more or less keep pace with budgets but this became unfeasible in the last generation, evidenced by now-infamous studio closures. The self-publishing indie revolution and the success of free to play has fundamentally changed that trajectory. Not only do you have big publishers now marketing smaller downloadable titles but indies are getting a little more ambitious and middle of the road PC developers are staking their claim in the console space. Hence the beginnings of a AA digital space.

I think the classic JRPG has a chance to thrive in this arena. You don't need crazy production values but polished art design goes a long way. You can spend more time tinkering with game mechanics rather than trying to make it all work with over elaborate 3D models and environments. Good composers can truly stand out here. And you don't need to hire voice actors and directors, you can get away with a novel and surprising plot. Sounds a lot like the handheld space, except it grants access to a little more power, better network support, and the chance for the big publishers to take it a lot more seriously. Child of Light opened the door for a JRPG renaissance, it's up to Japan now to capitalize on it.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I expect a Renaissance incoming. Right now we are seeing the beginnings of "AA"/double-A development in gaming. For years most of the publisher's tried to more or less keep pace with budgets but this became unfeasible in the last generation, evidenced by now-infamous studio closures. The self-publishing indie revolution and the success of free to play has fundamentally changed that trajectory. Not only do you have big publishers now marketing smaller downloadable titles but indies are getting a little more ambitious and middle of the road PC developers are staking their claim in the console space. Hence the beginnings of a AA digital space.

I think the classic JRPG has a chance to thrive in this arena. You don't need crazy production values but polished art design goes a long way. You can spend more time tinkering with game mechanics rather than trying to make it all work with over elaborate 3D models and environments. Good composers can truly stand out here. And you don't need to hire voice actors and directors, you can get away with a novel and surprising plot. Sounds a lot like the handheld space, except it grants access to a little more power, better network support, and the chance for the big publishers to take it a lot more seriously. Child of Light opened the door for a JRPG renaissance, it's up to Japan now to capitalize on it.

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I'd actually say that this is true for more than just JRPGs. I think the "AAA Bubble" is essentially breaking.

Which is kind of weird. I'd seen an article in a business magazine only a few months ago explaining why AAA Games just made more business sense. The argument was that having a singular investment meant that you only needed a singular product in order to be successful, while putting your money into a multitude of products meant that they all needed to be successful for the company to succeed. Therefore, every company was going to be shifting to an approach that put the most money on a single game, and directed it to the largest audience.

This view massively overlooks a number of facts, however. The first is that it's a lot harder for an expensive title to be successful. Look at Tomb Raider. The game sold relatively well by any reasonable measure, yet failed from a business sense because it had so much money pumped into it that needed to be regained. Then, look at Bravely Default. A smaller game, for a smaller budget and a smaller system. In terms of sales numbers, it's still not as high as Tomb Raider. It hasn't even broken the one million sales mark yet (because people are idiots and aren't buying a fantastic JRPG). Yet it sold well enough, compared to the investment and the sales expectations, to make a major corporation sit up and decide to review their strategy. Let me tell you, that is no easy task.

The second thing it overlooks is the market. The current AAA trend has been attempting to homogenize the gaming market into something that only appeals to the largest demographic. We've all seen it, we've all noticed it. More and more games have lost their identity as publishers try to make them appeal to the mass market, and essentially only holding their name to pull in older fans. This approach hasn't really worked, and it has hurt game sales as well. Fans of old Lara Croft who don't appreciate the changes to the character. Fans of Hitman who don't appreciate the much more linear nature of the newer games. Etcetera. What's worse, it doesn't pull in newer fans either. The market is already glutted with well designed games that appeal to the largest demographic. Trying to edge in on that market is not going to be easy, because most companies don't have the practice and the mechanics to do as well. Even if they did, they're going to have to lure customers away from the already successful IPs that are in that market space, because customers aren't going to buy fifteen games at a time. There is a limited amount of money to be spent on luxuries, and games are in competition for that money.

The current mindset of "largest production value possible" is not going to hold. Neither, for that matter, are the bubbles that WolfKanno brought up. The MMO market never really got off the ground. There were a host of them at various points, but the time investment required already means that those are in strict competition. The move to a Free-to-Play model has saved a couple, but none of them are really going to be the market pinnacle that World of Warcraft was. Free-to-Play games are also going to crash at some point. Mostly because, like the 1983 crash, we're getting a deluge of shoddy products that are nothing but cash grabs. The mobile market can hold it for a while (especially with the dangerously addictive nature of the Free-to-Play model), but I really don't think it will last either. There will be more and more, they'll inflate, and then they'll crash. Heck, we've already seen King drop in value by 18% since it went to the public market (bwa ha ha ha ha, I love to see King do badly), and they are one of the Free-to-Play leaders. Zynga also did poorly after the initial market bubble for them.

Hence, my initial post. Bravely Default is the future of the genre. The genre is going to survive and prosper through good JRPGs. Companies will either realize this and start making more good titles, or they'll shift to another genre and market space will free up for others (or we'll have companies like ATLUS, who never moved away from the genre's strengths, and just continue to produce fantastic JRPGs). But the market demand will be met. Even when everyone claimed that JRPGs were dying a few years ago, I still found a constant stream available on my DS. This past year, we've seen a huge resurgence, and we've only got more great ones coming.


TLDR: Bravely Default is the future of the genre, and what I want to see from the genre (answering both the thread topic, and the thread non-topic). It is what JRPGs are at heart, and what they should always be. Nothing more need be said.

I would be sad if JRPGs complete their move to hand-helds. I don't have a problem with a scaled down product, I just want to be able to play it on my TV.

>>> More Dark Souls like games, I think people enjoy to be merciless mauled by hellish monsters that come out from nowhere.. And no guns or bad-ass characters please, is better to be just a naked loser with a rusty sword and a leather shield..:luca:

Give us some more gaht damn settings. I'm tired of everything either being medieval fantasy or futuristic sci-fi.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

Give us some more gaht damn settings. I'm tired of everything either being medieval fantasy or futuristic sci-fi.

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Shin Megami Tensei has you covered. :smug:

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I'd say turn-based combat with a tactical edge. A game that really makes you think about turn order and what you do with your turns, where one false move can end the battle. Stop getting more and more 'real time' with the battles and have a bigger focus on planned strategy.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

I'd say turn-based combat with a tactical edge. A game that really makes you think about turn order and what you do with your turns, where one false move can end the battle. Stop getting more and more 'real time' with the battles and have a bigger focus on planned strategy.

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You basically just described MegaTen's Press Turn system and Bravery Deafult's system. ;)

Yeah BD is on my list after I get done with Virtue's Last Reward. I realize it is kind of like a beacon of hope for JRPG enthusiasts everywhere.

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

Yeah BD is on my list after I get done with Virtue's Last Reward. I realize it is kind of like a beacon of hope for JRPG enthusiasts everywhere.

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That no one wants to talk about. I'm going to turn the forum into my own private lair at this rate. :(

I'll post about it once I finally play it. ;)

I adore the demo but I am flat broke and trying to finish school so I haven't had the chance to pick it up, otherwise I'd be talking about it.

OOOOOOOOOOOH! A Final Fantasy wherein the entire story takes place inside a computer... oh, wait... no, no, not quite the same as TTEOT. SO imagines the universe as a game played by a species of fourth-dimensional beings. But what if the characters already knew they were in a computer. It'd be like a FF version of Matrix or Tron or Reboot or Wreck-it Ralph... or something.

Oh, wait, is this not about Final Fantasy?

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

That no one wants to talk about. I'm going to turn the forum into my own private lair at this rate. :(

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If it wasn't on 3DS I would be all over it.

I don't have the money to pick up a 3DS even if it does have a bunch of cool titles, but Bravely Default has been a game on my radar since it was first announced.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

Yeah BD is on my list after I get done with Virtue's Last Reward. I realize it is kind of like a beacon of hope for JRPG enthusiasts everywhere.

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That no one wants to talk about. I'm going to turn the forum into my own private lair at this rate. :(

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Hey, I talk about it :G:

Indeed. Flynn's been all over that game. And has been super helpful to newbies to it

I personally wouldn't be offended if the gaming budget concept finally deflated. All these mass market AAA titles I don't care about were old when they were new. I can't really respect or appreciate CoD and its clones. Though I do appreciate that Ubisoft prints money on Assassin's Creed. I don't play those games. But I'd rather they get the mass market money rather than EA or Activision. But I mostly play niche or indie games these days. It's similar to having such a huge plethora of games available and being in the PS1 or SNES era, with well-learned game mechanics, from a vast history of what works and what doesn't

Unfortunately not a lot of indie devs worry about RPGs, let alone a particular style of RPG. So, whether it will happen or not, but hopefully Atlus and its ilk (NIS and some others) lead the way. And it'll again be like SNES/PS1, where RPGs were made specifically for fans of those games. And again, they'll have decades of examples of what works and what doesn't. And won't be throwing huge amounts of money in so they don't have to be afraid of making a couple of risks and trying some new ideas and whatnot. But who really knows..

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

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Originally Posted by Newmani

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

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Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Xenoblade Chronicles and heck, even the Last Story, among probably many others, all deliver in these aspects :monster:

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Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn

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Originally Posted by Newmani

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

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Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Xenoblade Chronicles and heck, even the Last Story, among probably many others, all deliver in these aspects :monster:

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Of course that's four out of.... how many new RPGs?

Devil Survivor 2 and Shin Megami Tensai IV, as well as Fire Emblem awakening (Even though I admit I couldn't get into it, though believe me I understand why other people did.).

This year also saw Atelier Escha and Logy, as well as the other four atelier games launched on PS3 over it's life cycle. (And the new one out this year or next.)

Really I dont' think RPG's are in near the dire straights some people seem to think it is. :p

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Devil Survivor 2 and Shin Megami Tensai IV, as well as Fire Emblem awakening (Even though I admit I couldn't get into it, though believe me I understand why other people did.).

This year also saw Atelier Escha and Logy, as well as the other four atelier games launched on PS3 over it's life cycle. (And the new one out this year or next.)

Really I dont' think RPG's are in near the dire straights some people seem to think it is. :p

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I feel that has more to do with the genre splintering and becoming more niche. I can't say I'm excited for another Atelier or Tales of game. Yet I also understand why most people are not with me when I'm jumping for joy with the new announcement of Persona or SMT. I feel the genre has lost its strong core titles and is living mostly through the niche titles and the few big budget games that are left.

I can't really feel like that's a bad thing though, a lack of core games that bring a huge chunk. Really that's kind of how it's always been, at least stateside. You had your FF games which garnered huge sales compared to other RPG's, (DQ games as well in Japan), and then several others with smaller fan bases, like Breath of Fire and Suikoden.

We still see big sales for FF, and for shear volume we may have more now then ever, a lot of which tailor to more specific tastes. Shin Megami Tensai, Tales, Atelier, the recent and frankly bizarre Neptunia games (Fairy Fencer F being a game coming out in the same vein), and some built on more old school principals like Bravely Default and the upcoming Citzens of Earth.

I guess I just don't really see the problem. :p

To quote Cousin Avi from the film Snatch: Who the smurf wants to see them?

I actually consider games like BoF, Lufia, and even Suikoden to be part of the core though not as big as FF or DQ, whereas Atelier, SMT, and Agarest War really appeal to more niche parts of the RPG base largely because they make a novelty element into a core element of their games, which is why I can't say the same of some older titles because while they are niche compared to FF/DQ I don't feel they are as far removed as games that feature dating-sims, item crafting and heavy dungeon crawling as front row attractions that average RPG players are thinking to themselves is something they want to see.

Basically I feel we are seeing niche genres splintering off of niche genres which is distancing the core fans of the genre. It's why I was remarking about in the Top Five PS2 RPG that it seemed like it had the most drastic spread of games cause the core collapsed that generation and everyone made due with what they could get into.

I am not saying that these niche titles are a bad thing by themselves but it does show that the core element of the genre is not where it used to be 20 years ago and I feel that is why people are concerned about the genre as a whole because their is nothing to really anchor it like other genres have, which is why the genre is kind of being brushed back into the niche market instead of being a genre even people who don't normally play RPGs can get excited for. Atelier, Persona and Tales of, have all come a long way for their series but they still fail to be system seller like stronger franchise icons like Halo, GTA, Mario, or Civilization. The worst case scenario being that Japanese publishers will go back to the days of the 16-bit era, where only a handful of titles make it out of Japan and we'll lose out or have to go back to importing or emulating to see what we're missing out on. That's an unlikely worst case scenario but I do feel we are seeing Japanese companies being pretty hesitant to release outside of Japan or they are shifting to the cell-phone market which has broader appeal in Japan than out here.

Honestly I feel it's only the bigger companies that seem to be afraid of releasing RPG's outside of Japan. Hell, Atlus picked up Conception 2 and saved Citzens of Earth from extinction, and we see Idea Factory!, a company who makes probably the most Niche of RPG's, having opened up a U.S. Branch just last year after most of their games seem to be financial successes for them.

I do wonder if perhaps RPG's were always destined to move towards a Niche Market like they are now anyways.

Regardless they may not be huge system sellers these days, but I don't really see a need for them to be. At least not a singe game. There are a fair number of people who make their choses based off the system that gets the most RPG's, which tends to be Sony and Hand Helds. It may not be a huge difference, but I think it's at least enough to be noteworthy. :p

Again, I'd like to point out: Bravely Default. The game is about as solid of a "core" RPG as you can get. It wasn't due to be released outside Japan. Square didn't think it would sell well over here, as it was designed and built for the Japanese market. Nintendo, however, thought it would be worth it, and funded the localization of the For the Sequel remake. Which then sold frelling fantastically, to the point that Square, as a company, took notice of massively unexpected profits.

There is some pretty huge untapped market potential among the core of the RPG fans, and companies are realizing it. Shin Megami Tensei, Bravely Default, and, yes, even Fire Emblem Awakening have all shown that (in fact, SMT IV and Awakening both experienced huge success, and may very well have been why Nintendo decided to port Bravely Default). The problem isn't that the games are shifting away from what they are at their core, it's that their developers haven't been making core RPGs because they've been trying to appeal to other audiences, not realizing that it was costing them their core fanbase. Square thought that their JRPG fans in America had moved on, and were looking to other genres. Bravely Default proved them wrong.

Do RPGs have more niche titles than other games? Maybe. But I've seen plenty of niche markets in other genres. Heck, even FPS games have their share of niche sub-genres, not to mention a core that is actually relatively small, if extremely lucrative.

The problem isn't that the core is gone, it's that the core, being the biggest and best selling, has been attempting to appeal to the biggest audience possible, and losing its audience because of that. The niche titles have less universal appeal, but they are at least all staying true to what the genre is. So they've continued to do well within their smaller demographic.

If we get a "Triple A" release of an actual JRPG, it will sell well. A lot of people think Final Fantasy XV will be that title (personally, I don't). But when we get one, it will revitalize JRPGs and we will see a surge of renewed interest in the core. The core fanbase is still there, and has been there. They've just been waiting for an actual JRPG that stays true to the genre without compromising it to appeal to other audiences.

Honestly, if anything, I'm reminded most of the market before the release of FFVI and FFVII. When we were given shlock like Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in an attempt to "make JRPGs that appealed to the Western gamer". Then, Square finally actually started releasing JRPGs and the market exploded. Granted, that explosion, that degree of market dominance, was simply unsustainable. But that doesn't mean that the audience had stopped liking the games. If we're ever going to get "another FFVII", now is the time. While gamers are yearning for one, whether they know it or not. While the homogenization of the market has left massive gaps in niche audiences waiting to be filled.

^ That's a very interesting comparison and I'd like to see if we do get that FFVII type shift on consoles again.

Honestly, the genre has always been niche. I'd like to compare sales for modern staples like Persona and Disgaea to past core titles like Breath of Fire or the Mana series. I expect they're not all that different. Final Fantasy still moves millions of discs and consoles and will continue to do so. I think people only feel that they've fallen off because some WRPGs came to the broader console demographic and got some attention, although the vast majority of them were undoubtedly niche (and indeed very much are in 2014). Only Skyrim was bigger than Final Fantasy but that was because it was a landmark game that transcended genre. It also eviscerated almost all of its RPG elements to become an open world action game.

I don't personally think the problems in the genre lie in the gameplay mechanics so much. I think the problems are far more on the story side of things. The big games in the genre almost all have one or both of two major things: They've got a story which feels influenced by the player (not necessarily is, but they have to feel convinced that they're making a difference), or they've got huge expansive worlds to explore. I honestly think the time for super linear stories in the FF vein has passed, and to succeed RPGs these days really need to be much more about branching paths and different choices. That's one of the reasons New Vegas is so well-regarded despite the gameplay being nothing special and the game being buggy as hell.

I think for the genre to revive we'll need to see a flip in the attitudes among developers towards how the game should play. Rather than a single 40-hour-long adventure, a 10-hour-long game which actually diverges and can have radically different outcomes would, I suspect, be far more popular. That's not to say there's no room for the more traditional type of RPG of course, and plenty of people are still very interested in games like Bravely Default or the wide array of old-school indie RPGs on the PC.

See, I think the problem isn't so much linear, as games not using their linearity to tell good stories. I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to something like FF13 if I actually felt compelled by strong storytelling and combat mechanics, but I haven't seen too many titles recently that delivered in that regard.* A more open world can compensate more for lack of these things by getting players to 'make their own fun'.

*I don't know that historical titles were as amazing in this respect, but they had a far fewer lines of dialog for poor writers to mess up.

True enough, I don't think linear can't be a success, and as you say an open world can be a disguise more than a superior alternative at times.

I think my biggest problem from what I've seen and heard regarding FFXIII and its ilk is that the story and characters aren't reasonable and relatable. It's not a well-written epic, regardless of its linearity. All the greatest JRPGs were pretty linear to some extent. Chrono Trigger being the biggest exemption I can think of

But my favorite JRPG franchise is Shining Force, and its hard to get any more linear than they are. But I'd play them over and over and over again, because I loved the characters, I loved the stories, and I loved the world. They were all well crafted and well delivered. I don't know how or why, but a lot of companies just don't know how to do that anymore. Their worlds are questionable, their characters are completely unreasonable, idiotic and annoying, and extremely hard to relate to, if not impossible in a lot of cases. It cripples any investment you might try to create with either the characters or their story

Bravely Default had an interesting world that was delivered to us fairly masterfully. The plot wasn't completely unreasonable, though fairly uninspired, it was extremely well done. And (I believe) above all else, the characters were ridiculously well crafted. Even the bad guys were lovable. There's probably someone in there most people can relate to, and even if not, there's someone or lots of someone people at least LIKE. They can get behind, and invest in

This is the problem I've had with Final Fantasy since VIII. Though XII had a well crafted world, and interesting characters. I failed to get invested (sadly) because Vaan didn't disappear from the plot fast enough. And he was too ridiculous for me to stomach for too long. And Penelo was barely any better. And dear lord did I want to slap people in VIII and X. And I've heard enough to know that XIII probably doesn't fair any better, and in some respects it probably fairs even worse

Bravely Default is not a perfect game, but it is a great example of how well received games are when enough thought and love ... and intelligence is put into crafting story and game world and characters. Entertaining game mechanics help a lot too I suppose, but I probably would have loved the game even if they were stuck with their first few jobs or stuck in an archetype

This is what got me when I recently played Tales of Xillia. The story was interesting, the world was fun to explore, the battles were fun to play, and the characters were beyond tolerable. I actually liked 90% of them and could relate to how a lot of them felt and reacted

I've called Japan out on their heavy reliance on melodrama rather than real drama, and the possibility that most Japanese creators might actually have trouble telling the difference between the two, or separating them from one-another. But I think their problem actually stems deeper than that, considering how frequently these unrealistic, unreasonable, unrelatable characters keep popping up in their JRPGs (and other genres and media). I mean what purpose does the trademark "mascot" character ever serve anyway? Or the hyper-active annoying girl? Or the silent brooding guy with a dark past? The plot would go on just fine without them and the audience could relate better if the characters were reasonable and well-rounded. And used things like ... logic or something

This is why I prefered games like FFVI FFVII and Xenogears for my JRPGs. Those archetypes may have still showed up, but they were sprinkled on super lightly by comparison. And the rest of the cast and plot was generally pretty reasonable and relatable. Easier to digest and get invested in. And its super rare to find that these days. Hell it was super rare to find that back then. That's what made those games so special to me. I have high hopes for Team Xeno at Monolith Soft to do it again. Because Square sure as hell won't. And all the companies working with Atlus and NIS are too content with their niche markets to worry about it. Which is fine. It'd just be nice if someone could pick up the torch. Maybe Persona 5 will fall in there somewhere. 3 and 4 didn't have super annoying or retardedly ridiculous characters

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I've called Japan out on their heavy reliance on melodrama rather than real drama, and the possibility that most Japanese creators might actually have trouble telling the difference between the two, or separating them from one-another.

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I've never thought about this in all that much depth, but this certainly explains a lot.

I know the biggest problem for me is the over-reliance on anime art design that I find incredibly alienating. In the SNES, PS1 era RPG developers were essentially creating their own artistic genres and that's much if what I found so appealing about them. I like anime but it turns me away and I would probably try a lot more new games if the artwork didn't turn me away. It's part of why I haven't tried the Persona series (also the gameplay videos I've seen make it look like something I wouldn't be into).

I agree a lot of JRPGs look too anime for me. Persona's not one of those though, that goes to a lot of those generic JRPGs that they don't make it over here and Hyperdimension Neptunia