Since when do gamers hate Nintendo?

Ok, so let me give you a little backstory to this. I was checking up on some professional reviews of Bravely Default yesterday, and I checked into the comments sections.

A lot of the comments in several of the reviews were universally negative, and most from people who admittedly never played the game. Those who had played either spoke positively, or cited the weak chapters later on (Chapter 6 was not strong, I freely admit that). However, the vast majority were people who just seemed to hate Nintendo. The most negative comments Square received were about how stupid they were to make the game solely available on the 3DS.

People criticized the 3DS, Nintendo as a whole, and every combination of the two I can think of.

Now, I can understand only being able to afford a single system, and disliking the fact that a great game comes out for one you don't have. I can understand not appreciating certain aspects of the 3DS design, or not liking handhelds in general. But that is not the same thing as openly criticizing and attacking the company that made it.

It's made all the worse by the fact that the only reason we could even play Bravely Default is because of Nintendo. They were the ones who ponied up the money to translate it. The localization was 100% funded by Nintendo. They had more faith in the product's potential than Square did. This isn't the first time I've seen this. There was similar hatred spewed after the Bayonetta 2 Wii U exclusive announcement. Again, a game they are a primary funder for.

What has Nintendo done to earn such ire? They've produced a ton of quality titles. Sure, there have been plenty of relatively poor cash-ins as well, but they're hardly alone in that. Admittedly, most of their first-party titles are relatively light and kid-friendly. But then they do things like support and fund projects like Bayonetta 2 and Bravely Default's localization. Heck, when Fire Emblem Awakening came out, Nintendo had issued an ultimatum that the game had to sell to a particular standard or the series would end. For most companies, that would be a death knell in itself. But Nintendo pushed Awakening hard, advertising it well and fully supporting it with E-Shop support, deals, and promotions.

Maybe I just stumbled across a particularly unhealthy selection of opinions, but I was truly dismayed to see just how much venom was being directed at the company. Are their products the absolute cutting edge of graphics and capability? No. Are their products more kid-friendly than most others? Absolutely. But is that really a good reason to loathe and despise a company with such a great history, that is making such a fantastic effort to continue to push fantastic products to this day?

I just wanted to share this a bit, because it was incredibly disheartening to see so many gamers (and so many self-declared JRPG fans) reviling a game simply because of its connection to a company that has such a long and positive history with both the genre and gaming in general.

Have you all ever seen such criticism or negativity toward Nintendo in other gaming circles (fortunately EoFF has been incredibly civil on the subject, something I never appreciated as much as I do now)?

People still hate the 3DS? I swear it's been on the rise ever since last summer with the ridiculous number of A++ titles?

One reason I think is that Nintendo's innovation with the Wii could be seen as "Selling out". It's at that point that Nintendo adopted their strategy towards the Casual market. While the market was evolving towards the more "Mature Market" (see Call of duty etc) nintendo opted for a family friendly approach to business, It turned out to be really profitable for them as the Wii Printed Money.

Currently, the Wii U and 3DS are seen as "Gimmicks" by most of the community. "Do we really need a Tablet for our game system", "do we really need 3D"? That and that Wii U, Nintendo's 8th generation console is still falling behing the competition in terms of power.

The issue with the internet is that they hate nintendo as it is not conforming to be the same as everything else at the moment. Nintendo are innovators, and sometime innovations just don't work well. The 3DS was considered a failure during it's first 2 years because it had about 3 games. Then it had about 1 title a month every month to this point and it's sold 43 million units. The Wii U has not yet to done this, and they are losing a lot of money due to poor sales. I seem to recall reading their sales forecast for the next quarter was 1 million units. This pales in comparison to the PS4 sales, despite the PS4 having basically nothing to play on it.

Nintendo will always churn out good games and I will stick with them to the end. They are just making it hard to defend the Wii U at the moment. I think things will pick up when Mario Kart 8 comes out this month. It is a game that many people will buy a Wii U to play. It's a shame it's taken them a year and a half to get to this stage though.

I can't say I've seen many people hating on the 3DS recently, but the reason people give Nintendo a hard time is because they've done a lot of dumb trout. The Wii was a titanic commercial success but a lot of people regard it (rightly or wrongly) as having hurt video games as a whole. What's less arguable is that Nintendo's efforts with the WiiU have been a categorical disaster. Their online setup would have been decent a decade ago, these days it's a bad joke. The company is hemorrhaging money and has little on the horizon to help them, aside from Smash and Mario Kart 8, but given past WiiU form I doubt those will move many systems.

They're also the quintessential Japanese company, so junior members can't tell Iwata that anything is wrong and the higher-ups aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Plus if criticism comes from abroad Nintendo's response is "Hahaha foolish Gaijin, they believe they know better than us!" and they carry right on assuming the West will kiss Nintendo's ass and call it ice cream.

Nintendo fundamentally failed to grasp why the Wii was a success and what implications that had for them. It was an absolutely brilliantly marketed console that brought in unbelievable numbers of people who previously would never have been considered major video game demographics. The flip side of that is - and I'll toot my own horn and point out that I was saying this years and years ago - that these people are not serious or hardcore gamers. I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just a facet of their behavior as consumers. A Wii is a thing they bought because they liked that particular product, because the Wii specifically had stuff they wanted. We're used to the console cycle where we get new systems every few years, but to Soccer Mom and Random Grandma they've got a Wii, why would they want or need anything else? And they have no more loyalty to Nintendo than they do to whoever made their TV anyway, these are not people who will go out and buy a Nintendo product because of the name. Or for that matter people who will buy a console of any kind because in the future it will have a worthwhile library.

Nintendo assumed all these new customers would just naturally upgrade to the WiiU because that's what everyone else has done since the NES days, whereas that's not the case at all. Also not helped by the name, which is pretty much a total disaster that, to the layperson, gives no information about what the product actually is.

e; Also as Mr. Shauna points out the WiiU can barely match last generation's power, and Nintendo is notorious for being very unhelpful towards 3rd party devs. They have a very strong attitude that others should be honored to make games for Nintendo systems, and have never made the effort to court others or ensure consoles are convenient for them. Some have been, but it's by coincidence rather than design, and the WiiU certainly isn't one people like developing for. Between the power shortfall, development difficulty, and the lack of customers nobody's much interested in porting games to the WiiU.

One thing I've found interesting with games is that the Wii U versions of games are either getting Cancelled or Postponed and are usually inferior versions. Just for some examples (First one is bad) The Wii U version of Aliens Colonial Marines was scrapped before launch based on the poor quality of the released product. Games such as Watch Dogs, Rayman Legends, Lego Hobbit have all been delayed on the Wii U version, Rayman Legends Especially causing controversy. Makes you think there is a conspiracy theory surrounding these games.

Of the games for the Wii U coming out, I know of the following:

Mario Kart 8, Smash 4, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, X, SMT vs Fire Emblem... I think that's it in terms of announced games for the Wii U. That's all we have to get exceited for except more than likely another sodding Mario game at the end of the year. Nintendo need to win back the Hardcore fans now. They Need Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox basicaly all those franchises that fell by the wayside in the last generation when they focused on the "Wider Audience"

With the way console gaming is going, PC gaming is stepping up to be the next stage in development. PC gaming is becomong more afordable and provides better results and games for cheaper than consoles. Titanfall, XB1's big exclusive so far was also on PC and 360. Why bother with the XB1 when you already have a better platform to play exclusives on?

Nintendo will live and die by it's franchises, and they will never port it anywhere but their own consoles. That's why they would be rolling in dough if they'd just push the games out.

Pretty sure gamers hate everything.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Shauna

One thing I've found interesting with games is that the Wii U versions of games are either getting Cancelled or Postponed and are usually inferior versions. Just for some examples (First one is bad) The Wii U version of Aliens Colonial Marines was scrapped before launch based on the poor quality of the released product. Games such as Watch Dogs, Rayman Legends, Lego Hobbit have all been delayed on the Wii U version, Rayman Legends Especially causing controversy. Makes you think there is a conspiracy theory surrounding these games.

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The conspiracy is that the WiiU is a bad playform for devs and most of them can't be bothered. Ubisoft feel they owe Nintendo because one of their Rayman games did complete gangbusters awhile back, but it seems like they're trying to get out of making WiiU games too.

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Mario Kart 8, Smash 4, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, X, SMT vs Fire Emblem... I think that's it in terms of announced games for the Wii U. That's all we have to get exceited for except more than likely another sodding Mario game at the end of the year. Nintendo need to win back the Hardcore fans now. They Need Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox basicaly all those franchises that fell by the wayside in the last generation when they focused on the "Wider Audience"

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Yeah, of those only the first two have any chance of being significant system movers. Nintendo aren't selling because they've got nothing, and they've got nothing because they're not selling. Vicious circle. The real problem is they can't roll out a new console anytime soon either because then all the people who did adopt the WiiU are going to be even more pissed.

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Originally Posted by Mister Adequate

Nintendo fundamentally failed to grasp why the Wii was a success and what implications that had for them. It was an absolutely brilliantly marketed console that brought in unbelievable numbers of people who previously would never have been considered major video game demographics. The flip side of that is - and I'll toot my own horn and point out that I was saying this years and years ago - that these people are not serious or hardcore gamers. I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just a facet of their behavior as consumers. A Wii is a thing they bought because they liked that particular product, because the Wii specifically had stuff they wanted. We're used to the console cycle where we get new systems every few years, but to Soccer Mom and Random Grandma they've got a Wii, why would they want or need anything else? And they have no more loyalty to Nintendo than they do to whoever made their TV anyway, these are not people who will go out and buy a Nintendo product because of the name. Or for that matter people who will buy a console of any kind because in the future it will have a worthwhile library.

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I honestly think the problem the Wii U has been running into runs a bit deeper than the fact that soccer moms and grandparents don't care about getting caught up in the console release cycle.

The Wii was a casual system released at a time where motion controls seemed novel to the casual gamer, and tablets weren't even a thing and smartphones that didn't suck were only just on the horizon (the iPhone wouldn't land until more than six months after the Wii came out, and let's face it, no one gave a trout about smartphones before that). So basically, it was a casual console with a gimmick that drew in people who weren't traditionally gamers, and the most competition it had was from things like browser based games for the most part.

Being unique in a market with almost no competition is a pretty good thing to be. Too bad the casual gamers who bought the Wii (such as my parents for one) have smartphones and tablets and haven't powered up their Wii's in months, if not years. And the Wii U is stuck in the awkward position of the new gimmick being a tablet in the controller, having power the Wii's audience didn't care about, not enough power for the people interested in next-gen consoles and PC games (or third party's for that matter, which is the traditional Nintendo problem), and it's also burdened with a name that is just stupidly confusing to any non-gamers who might care.

Honestly, when I look at the Wii U, I can't help but see a Nintendo as a company who didn't seem to understand why the Wii was such a success, and had no idea how to build a follow up console. But the DS and tablets are popular. Might as well stick a touchscreen on the controller.

It's a shame really. I've been extremely critical of Nintendo for years now for a variety of reasons. Chief among them being that they spent too much time rehashing their N64 greatest hits, and they made a console I had no interest in with the Wii. But I'd really like to see them get their trout together and turn this stuff around. I just worry they may be a bit too set in their ways for any sort of shakeup that they could really use to be a realistic possibility.

It's not just Nintendo, this happens to Sony and Microsoft too. It all depends on where you go. Go to NeoGAF for example, and you'll see intense levels of Microsoft hatred. Go to 4chan's /v/ and you'll see unwavering Sony hatred. Go to Rock Paper Shotgun, and you'll see plenty of hatred for all three. :p

One thing all fanboys have in common: they love to hate on everyone else while apologizing for their favorite company's screw ups. :p

It may be because of the Zelda forums I'm on but I've seen a large number of people who love them some Nintendo

Zelda forums will have a love for Nintendo like EoFF has a love for square enix.

/r/Nintendo on reddit is bad for it too. There is 3 types of comment there; "news and questions", mainly why I go there; "Stop bashing Nintendo, they are doing fine" comments", and "5 ways nintendo can save the Wii u" posts. I especially hate those that say Nintendo can sit on their cash reserves and accept the Wii u as a commercial failure, the money will run out eventually.

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

Pretty sure gamers hate everything.

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Bingo.

The WiiU seems like it sucks, but I've never played it, because it doesn't yet have that marquee Zelda, Mario, or Metroid title that gets people to flock to their systems (3D World won't be enough for me). Nintendo's strength has always been its first party games and as long as they stick to focusing on those then they should be ok.

3DS is great though and I'm not sure why anyone is bashing it at this point. If Nintendo went to a handheld-only model while making the occasional third party console game then I wouldn't be too bothered.

Super Mario 3D world is a really good game. The issue with it is, it's just another Mario game. Mario has become a yearly release with either a 2D or 3D Mario coming out late each year. The are usually still good games, but don't vary enough game to game to be new.

Of the games I have for the Wii U. The Wonderful 101 which is a new IP and Pikmin 3 are the ones I am most interested in. Because it's a new IP, and a game that was not in the last generation getting a sequel. I'll get to playing them soon. Things like Wind Waker HD while I'm glad was ported to the Wii U, can still be played on the Wii if you have an old enough model with backwards compatibility.

I'll wait until E3. I need something to get excited about on the Wii U. Zelda U will probably be announched, but we need more than that.

I'm sure Mario 3D World is a must own if you have a WiiU but it's not a system seller on its own.

I also agree with others that the name of the system certainly didn't help its credibility.

For the first 6 months, I wasn't aware it was a new console. I just knew it was a tablet. It was only after seeing the full console advertised in game stores that it clicked it was a new console.

Mario 3D World is a must own, and it is a great 4 player game in it's own right. The game varies from it's 3DS counterpart in that "New Game +" for the game isn't running through the game again as Luigi, but opens up 4 special worlds to work through. More challenging versions of previous levels such at "Speedrun this level with 30 seconds on the clock". This also opens up the 5th playable characterRosalina, and she just helps to break the game, it's amazing how I played the entire game without her.

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 will make me buy a WiiU. Until then, it has little interest to me. I kinda wish Nintendo would wake up and try a little. But since they won't, then I can's blame people for disliking them. I certainly don't want it to be another Call of Duty machine. But having almost exclusively casual and/or kiddie games doesn't make it appeal to me. I get the feeling Nintendo doesn't even want it to appeal to me half the time. They don't make or help port games aimed at adults, and generally don't care about a westerner's opinion

I'm sure there's many 40 year old Japanese men who enjoy playing reiterations of Mario and Zelda for the N'th time. But for me, I need more meat than just jumping on blocks or solving puzzles with voiceless characters. Story. Or style. Or something. I don't hate them though. I feel kinda sad for them. And I probably won't defend them..

I was hesitant about getting a DS just to play Kingdom Hearts 358. But my mom picked up solely to play a hidden object game (the only one ever released for the handheld afait). I got a PSP only when a sufficient number of titles caught my interest (but I mostly bought it for Crisis Core, Dissidia was a bonus later on).

Can anybody suggest some awesome Wii games? Not Wii U. Just Wii.

Depends on what games you are interested in and what location you are in Mercen-X. Region locking could prevent some goods games you may want to play.

Its almost completely painless to hack your Wii... if the need arises

Xenoblade Chronicles is probably the best on the system

A couple other top contenders are Muramasa The Demon Blade, and Resident Evil 4 if you haven't played it already. Though on that note, if you have an older Wii, there's a few dozen amazing GameCube games worth looking into as well

Some of the ones that are always in top lists that interest me and may interest you are things like No More Heroes and Red Steel 2

You can get Cave Story from the store, I can't remember if it's $5 or $10. If it's $5 it's totally worth it. Still one of the best indie platformers with an interesting story and awesome Metroid style gameplay

>>> Isnt the 3DS one of the top-selling consoles?
I dont see the hate there..:luca:

Nintendo is almost two different companies these days, the handheld market is a roaring success that shows with some work you can turn around something once believed to be on the road to failure, whilst the WiiU seems to be demonstrating that sometimes you can do not such thing.

Gamers have been hating on them since the N64 days to be honest, that was pretty much when they started to become known as a system with a few really awesome games and a large library that wasn't.

I'll come back to this topic when I have more time to think it over but one odd thing I have been noticing with the WiiU is that people kind of like it better than the Wii, I mean I have friends and acquaintances who all hate the Wii and motion control gaming with a passion but they all oddly think the WiiU is actually a good system that just happens to have nothing on it. I think Nintendo could turn the Wii U around but they need to fix three things, none of which will be easy for them.

1) They need to re-brand the system and show why it is something to pay attention to. They need to sell to both developers and consumers that it is something special and the controller serves a purpose to enhance gaming beyond being a convenient menu hub. They may need to even do a redesign to fix some of the consoles technical problems more of that below...

2) They need to fix their online infrastructure. They are lagging behind their competitors, even though it has improved over time, it still feels like they are resentful about it, and Nintendo has several franchises that could easily take advantage of it. If Nintendo was desperate enough, I feel they could easily turn the system around by rebuilding their internet structure to something more modern and then debut it with a Pokemon MMO that has compatibility with the current entry on the 3DS so you can swap in Pokemon between games. Not likely to happen but I feel it would have a fair shot of getting people to notice.

3) Win back third party developers. Which has been on Nintendo's To-Do list for their main consoles since the N64. The Wii U was meant to do this but it's cumbersome architecture and Nintendo's general lack of helping developers not directly co-developing for them has shot them in the foot. This could be partially fixed with a re-branding and a release of a Version 2.0 of the system but even then I feel Nintendo needs to finally give up on some of their control issues. Sadly, even just getting ports is not likely to happen too often for the system since it's way under powered compared to its competitors. I mean part of the success of X-Box and Playstation is that they can both play similar powered games, though one often gets shafted in the process but developers are much more likely to consider your console if just tweaking some code will make it work on multiple systems. Wii U can't really do that and will have to survive on unique gaming experiences instead of relying on mulch-platform help like they had hoped.

Yeah, it may not have the power or games, but as a System it's pretty cool. The controller is far more comforatable to hold then you would think, the touch works as a great menu hub, being able to play games just off the screen without a tv is actually pretty cool, and there are a few things I could think of that could use that touch screen very well.

It really isn't a bad system at all, Nintendo's smurfed up more on the marketing end (To both consumers and developers) that has prevented it from getting any solid games, from an actual production stand point they did just fine. (Well, online infrastructure asside. :p)

It's because it's not the cool/ hip/ in thing anymore.


It doesn't have the Halo or the Call Of Duty and the Mountain Dew advertising bro.



Nintendo makes ' children games '

That's the confusing thing about the Wii u. It is playing inna competley different leauge from the rest of the other video game mediums. Ps4 and Xb1 while pushing out the content (eventually) that our less hardcore audience will play (those that play consoles for Fifa/maddrm/cod a few hours a week) will be the majority of the sales for the ps4 and xb1. The players that dedicate more time to games should be moving to PC gaming this generation. PC gaming is cheaper overall, has better visuals, is upgradeable and will play 90% of the big releases on consoles.

What PC gaming won't do is play Nintendo games. Nintendo games are never on any other formats, so the Wii u should be pulling in people that are looking for that more childlike variety in there games. But with games such as pikmin 3, super Mario 3d world, wind waker hd and the wonderful 101 its not giving enough varaition to this norm that is found elsewhere. You don't buy a Nintendo console to play Fifa or call of duty, you do it yo play metriod, Zelda, kirby etc. That's where the have fallen flat. Its taken them a year and a half of poor sales to get a game that I, diehard Nintendo fan #53246, can get excited about playing rather than "eh I'll buy it to play it at some point".

I do wonder if a lot of the hate stemmed from the N64/PSone era. The Saturn flopped pretty hard, and the Dreamcast never really picked up traction - so there was a lot of Sega fans who may have adopted either a PS or N64. This meant that it was just Nintendo v Sony for a while, with PS being the more popular of the two and more known for it's "edgier" marketting etc. Then as more and more consumers came in with the PS2/Gamecube/XBOX era it was generally commonplace for people to bash the Gamecube as the kiddies console.

I miss the Gamecube era :( Super Smash Bros. Melee, Mario Party 4, Mario Tennis, Super Monkey Ball... oh what fun at sleep-overs we had. Then stuff like RE, RE0, Metroid Prime, Tales of Symphonia, Baton Kaitos. Plus it had the best version of Soul Calibur 2.

I guess they also kind of screwed themselves over by not picking up on the multimedia side of things either. Those tiny CDs, whereas PS2s and XBOXs could play DVDs, that was a pretty big things really to have an all-in-one multimedia machine back then, especially as the PC lull started a bit once the home console popularity started going up.

I think maybee hit the nail on the head personally. Nintendo has been labeled as the consoles for kids. I think that goes as far back as the Super Nintendo. I can't remember where I read it, but I think there was a survey or something taken where a lot of boys wouldn't fess up to owning a SNES for this reason.

*shrugs* I've always liked Nintendo. The NES was where I broke into gaming. My first system was a N64 and I thought it had a fantastic library all its own. I enjoyed my Game Boy, Game Boy Advance and Nintendo GameCube. I'll always appreciate them trying to be innovative. It's one of the things I love about them.

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Originally Posted by Aulayna

I guess they also kind of screwed themselves over by not picking up on the multimedia side of things either. Those tiny CDs, whereas PS2s and XBOXs could play DVDs, that was a pretty big things really to have an all-in-one multimedia machine back then, especially as the PC lull started a bit once the home console popularity started going up.

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This is Nintendo's other problem and one of the reasons why third-party developers hate them because Nintendo always creates their own proprietary formats which are generally a bit more pricey, difficult to work with, and gives Nintendo more leverage when dealing with third-party developers. The whole jumping ship that happened with the N64 was due to Nintendo sticking to cartridge over moving onto CD based games. On the other hand, as Mr. Shauna points out, this is part of the reason why PC never gets Nintendo's games until emulation catches up because unlike Sony and Microsoft's machines which are basically underpowered PCs, Nintendo's system is usually a bit more unique and thus their games always remain exclusive whereas Sony and Microsoft now have to contend with the PC market hogging part of their profit shares. The crippling of exclusives we witness last-gen dealt a serious blow to the console market and finally allowed PC to be something noticed.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

I think maybee hit the nail on the head personally. Nintendo has been labeled as the consoles for kids. I think that goes as far back as the Super Nintendo. I can't remember where I read it, but I think there was a survey or something taken where a lot of boys wouldn't fess up to owning a SNES for this reason.

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That is news to me. :erm:

The closest Nintendo ever got nailed with the "kiddie" moniker was from how they handled Mortal Kombat 1 by removing the blood and replacing some of the more graphic Finishing Moves but the backlash was enough to make sure MKII and III never saw such censorship. I feel the kiddie moniker started with the N64, mainly because all the mature third-party games wound up on Sony whereas Nintendo was left with their more family friendly first-party titles. I remember Conker's Bad Fur Day being a big deal cause it was much more mature than other games on the platform.

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Originally Posted by Aulayna

I guess they also kind of screwed themselves over by not picking up on the multimedia side of things either. Those tiny CDs, whereas PS2s and XBOXs could play DVDs, that was a pretty big things really to have an all-in-one multimedia machine back then, especially as the PC lull started a bit once the home console popularity started going up.

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This right here is an interesting point. They claimed the only reason for the minidiscs was to prevent piracy (lol, right?). They concerned themselves so much w/ "protecting" their product, they missed the modern innovations, & in turn put out a product that couldn't reach it's full potential. Even now, they won't use DVDs for the same reason. In turn, for how "innovative" Nintendo comes off, this set back almost takes away innovation.

It reminds me of Bill Wirtz, the late owner of the Chicago Blackhawks NHL team. From the 70s or so until his death he forbid his team's home games from airing on television. He did it under the guise of "protecting" the ticket buyer. But what he did was take away the best way to promote his team. This in turn lead the team to have only a small faction of fans, most of who remember the team from the pre-tv ban era.

Like Wirtz, who's unfounded fears led to his teams unpopularity, Nintendo's fears lead their system's unpopularity.

I remember reading an interview behind the whole "Lack of DVD support" for the systems. I believe it was Minamoto that said that most entertainment systems in a family home have access to a DVD player, so they could "non-value added costs" . This means that knowing the end user would not have any practical reason to have a 2nd or 3rd DVD player in their entertainment unit, they can reduce the costs of the system accordingly. I for one have access to 4 mediums (not including my laptop) that have the functions to play DVDs. I don't need a 5th or 6th one via the two nintendo consoles I own.

That being said though, Our main DVD machine is the PS3, a competitor. The fact we own that console and have been using it for DVDs rather than the Wii/Wii U may make us more Playstation aligned. Dunno. just suggesting things there. The part about Non Value Added Costs is gold

I was a teenager when I had the PS2 and Gamecube. Heck I went to University then too. The PS2 *was* my DVD player, and subsequently saw way more use than the Gamecube, my PC was so old it didn't have a DVD drive. We had "broadband" which back then was like 256kbps, so torrenting a film would literally take days.

I sometimes think Nintendo doesn't realise that a lot of kids have a TV in their room with their consoles, and that the console isn't in a living room that people are competing over.

Even the phone app market is slowly but surely eating away at their handheld market share.

I mean really the reality is these days, that most systems can do everything Nintendo's can do - but better, and Nintendo relies on unconvential gimmicks to shift systems and the games that tend to make the best use of these are first-party ones. Which is probably why they get so much flack these days for not evolving with the market, and trying to ride on the coattails of the Wii's success with the misguided Wii U and the Wii's library of large amounts of shovelware still hangs over them.

They still make great first-party games, but their market share is probably going to stagnate or dwindle unless they seriously rethink the angle they are coming from - especially as the Wii U, pre-launch during the reveal at E3 2011 (I think, might've been 2012), was angled as being designed to bring the core gamer back into the picture and then they botched it. I think the crux here is that a lot of gamers want to like Nintendo still, but Nintendo's archaic stance toward proprietary distribution methods and hardballing with third parties means that people will no longer see the value in giving £300+ to Nintendo each console generation to play the latest iteration of their beloved childhood IPs. More to the point, older consumers buying for their families may not see the merit in doing it when competing consoles come with additional value in terms of multimedia services and connectivity. Sure most people probably have a myriad of devices they can already access those services with, but when Netflix is one of the most used things on XBOX Live, it's kinda telling about consumer habbits.

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Originally Posted by Aulayna

I think the crux here is that a lot of gamers want to like Nintendo still, but Nintendo's archaic stance toward proprietary distribution methods and hardballing with third parties means that people will no longer see the value in giving £300+ to Nintendo each console generation to play the latest iteration of their beloved childhood IPs. More to the point, older consumers buying for their families may not see the merit in doing it when competing consoles come with additional value in terms of multimedia services and connectivity. Sure most people probably have a myriad of devices they can already access those services with, but when Netflix is one of the most used things on XBOX Live, it's kinda telling about consumer habbits.

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This actually was what prompted the thread. This was always my opinion on how most gamers saw Nintendo. It's certainly how most of us here feel.

But the comments I read that caused me to write this were extremely different from that view, or any of those expressed here. Frustration at Nintendo's policies, desire for them to change, or disappointment at their errors I totally get. I think we all understand the feelings here, and I really am thankful that we can have such deep and well thought out discussions on the matter.

But the comments I read didn't seem to take this approach. There was more outright hatred of the company in general, not to mention tons of disgust and unabashed bias against the 3DS merely for being a Nintendo product. I saw it dismissed as a kiddy handheld, called inferior to an iPhone, berated for not looking as good as the Vita, and followed with a litany of profanity that I really do not care to repeat, or track down to quote. People dismissed Bravely Default as "another Square screwup" because they "made the mistake of sticking it on a Nintendo system" (again, ignoring the review they were commenting on which pointed out that Nintendo funded the translation).

This was what I didn't get. The honest skepticism and frustration I can understand. But blind dismissal of the company and products I just find...wrong.

Maybe I've been spoiled by being a part of positive gaming communities like EoFF for so long.

Were you browsing the comment section on different sites? Those places in general usually breeds the most stupidity and from my experience those who dismiss anything from one company or the next hold blind loyalties to their rivals.

These people just sound like overzealous fans who are trying to dismiss Nintendo, I mean the 3DS is doing pretty damn good for itself to be honest once it finally started getting some games for it. The Vita is the handheld that seems to be in trouble due to lacking that killer app most systems need yet I find it funny no one talks about that, though I'm sure it will even out before it's lifespan is over like the PSP did.

I honestly didn't have a good opinion of the 3DS but after I obtained one, my view completely changed, I think part of the issue is that some people just think it's a DS with a gimmicky 3D mechanic, when in reality it is basically the DS 2 with a gimmicky 3D element attached to it but things like spot pass and it's other functions show that Nintendo are really smart about how to make an engaging handheld system without going overboard on useless features. Sure I can do Youtube and Netflix on the thing, but why would I want to when I'm too busy collecting Mii's, downloading games, or playing the game's decent library? You know actually using the system for exactly what I bought it for. I guess the hate could be partly because all of the games that are 3DS exclusives, I do hear a lot of complaints from people wanting the games to be multi-platform like Persona Q or Bravery Default, but handhelds are kind of the last bastion of exclusives anymore.

Nintendo just needs to invest in some of that blast processing.

A lot of the anti-Nintendo people are on Bill Gate's payroll. That's where all that Bill & Melinda Gates foundation money goes to.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I feel the kiddie moniker started with the N64, mainly because all the mature third-party games wound up on Sony whereas Nintendo was left with their more family friendly first-party titles.

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Though what's hilarious is that most teens- young adults flock towards Mario, Zelda, Pokemon, Starfox, and Metroid

And where are the young kids and tweens going ? To the Call Of Duty swearing, trolling, making rude jokes, sexist and rape jokes, and yell/ scream at their screen everytime they lose.

Adults do play Call Out Duty but most of them act just as childish some of them do be mature but the point is that the labels are stupid.

The Nintendo VS Sega and Nintendo VS PlayStation thing is stupid too, stop being brainwashed by marketing and supporting a certain side or team, because all of the consoles make amazing and memorable well-developed games.

This is why I can't stand Game Grumps, because they are so Nintendo biased, like it's still 92 and it's annoying.

It's 2014, but because of the console wars, people still act like the other console that was the rival of their beloved team is the enemy, and it's obnoxious and childish.

I do agree with the opinion that Nintendo does get hate due to people growing up during console wars, same with Sega and PlayStation and it's annoying as trout.

Hate is a strong word, I vacillate between enthusiasm and apathy when it comes to Nintendo. Unfortunately, I will never reach enthusiasm for the Wii U if they expect to get by with the same old sequels for the rest of the generation. I swung pretty swiftly towards apathy for the 3DS, as once I came down from the nostalgia high, all those hyped 2013 titles were actually pretty boring. I bought a Vita at the end of the year and haven't turned on my 3DS since.

I understand why many of the hard core turned against them as Nintendo basically gave a massive middle finger to the gaming community. They willingly let their games pipeline dry up as they made money from other areas. And the games they do have today are largely stale sequels in franchises well past their prime. It always saddens me to see Nintendo fans who expect the system to come around once they get just another Mario or Zelda; they should expect more. Even worse are the fans who brag about how much money Nintendo made on the Wii and how they could keep losing money for another 40 years at this rate and still not go bankrupt.

Nintendo should spend that money instead to build a new development community centered around their products. Instead it looks like they're following the Wii trajectory by investing in NFC and QOL.

When SEGA finally died out of the console market, there were two major types of fans. Especially since they've steadily been destroying their brands (mostly Sonic). Granted, some fans saw it coming and prepared themselves. But the major two groups of fans either held out hope until the end and were either saddened and disappointed; or felt completely burned and turned their fandom into absolute hatred for the company

I don't know what point caused the turn-around, it's probably different for every fan. But I think the same thing basically happened with Nintendo. A group of their fans feel burned and betrayed and have turned their hurt and anger outwards and have begun to lash out at the company. I honestly have a feeling I might have been one of those fans, had I ever been a diehard Nintendo fan. And had I decided to try to stick with them

The people that are absolutely head over heels in love with Nintendo products are completely foreign to me. Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Starfox, Smash Bros., Pokemon, none of it interests me anymore. I really honestly didn't even enjoy those games as a kid. So Nintendo was never really for me. But I think I can understand where some people's hatred comes from. Just can't really relate to it

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Hate is a strong word, I vacillate between enthusiasm and apathy when it comes to Nintendo. Unfortunately, I will never reach enthusiasm for the Wii U if they expect to get by with the same old sequels for the rest of the generation. I swung pretty swiftly towards apathy for the 3DS, as once I came down from the nostalgia high, all those hyped 2013 titles were actually pretty boring. I bought a Vita at the end of the year and haven't turned on my 3DS since.

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Of course you think the games are boring. You're a Call of Duty fan. ;)

Game theory did a topic on innovation in gaming and Nintendo. Apparently Nintendo is as bad as the Fifa/Madden series.

Their follow-up to that one was actually more interesting, in my mind.



I've known for a while that Nintendo was not handling the YouTube community well, but I hadn't really considered just how much that could affect sales.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Hate is a strong word, I vacillate between enthusiasm and apathy when it comes to Nintendo. Unfortunately, I will never reach enthusiasm for the Wii U if they expect to get by with the same old sequels for the rest of the generation. I swung pretty swiftly towards apathy for the 3DS, as once I came down from the nostalgia high, all those hyped 2013 titles were actually pretty boring. I bought a Vita at the end of the year and haven't turned on my 3DS since.

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Of course you think the games are boring. You're a Call of Duty fan. ;)

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In Nintendo's defense, all games seem boring compared to Call of Duty!!!