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Attachment 65952
http://kotaku.com/sounds-like-the-fi...sod-1746564216
So, are we going to see massive waits between stories? Tremendous changes to the game in later episodes based on player feedback (a la the XIII trilogy)?
Or will we merely see this screen at that memorable moment when the most famous spoiler in gaming occurred?
Attachment 65954
That sentence makes no sense.
I'll wait for the announcement of the announcement of Square clarifying this.
https://mobile.twitter.com/mochi_wsj...rc=twsrc%5Etfw
According to this tweet, it's because the game is too massive. So, welcome to the return of multi-disc gaming.
I really hope this game won't be episodic.
The way he talks it sounds like they're turning one game into a franchise instead of just having multiple discs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
I'm taking this all with a grain of salt right now. Journalists aren't always the most reliable sort.
It is probably one disc but chapters that heavily focus on this and that aspect.
Chapter 1 - Midgar
Chapter 2 - Chasing Sephiroth
Chapter 3 - The Black Materia/Aerith's Death
Chapter 4 - The Knowlespole
Chapter 5 - Great Materia/Cloud's Confabulation
Chapter 6 - Shinra's End
Chapter 7 - Birth of a God
This sounds....awful.
I was so hyped. ;__;
That would be glorious. Especially if it manages to be exactly three discs again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
If the game's really going to need multiple discs, then that says a lot about how much detail and depth there's likely to be. Vast open-world titles currently tend to require only one disc, so I'm going to be chuffed if the FFVII remake has such a vast, explorable world that one current-gen disc simply can't hold it all.
Like how Bravely Default had chapters? Odd, if that's what they're going for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
That sounds pretty intense. They haven't even reported something like this being needed for FFXV and that world looks huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DThat would be glorious. Especially if it manages to be exactly three discs again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
If the game's really going to need multiple discs, then that says a lot about how much detail and depth there's likely to be. Vast open-world titles currently tend to require only one disc, so I'm going to be chuffed if the FFVII remake has such a vast, explorable world that one current-gen disc simply can't hold it all.
Just a reminder for everyone:
If they do this for EVERY location in the game, this game is going to be more massive, data-wise, than any other game ever made.
Think about the number of backgrounds in FFVII. So many unique and detailed pictures. If they translate every one of those to 3D..? It's going to be MASSIVE.
Games were made differently back then. Open world games very rarely have even a touch of the level of details we've seen here, let alone having the staggering variety of locales and assets that FFVII did. Making a new village in Skyrim is mostly copy and pasting buildings. Making a new village in FFVII means switching from Wutai, to Junon, to Midgar, to Rocket Town, to Icicle Inn... On PSX, it was just a new picture to be drawn. On PS4? That means building and rendering a ton of new models and geometry.
^ That depends on if every location makes it into the final product. The game is a remake after all and it's possible they may knock out places irrelevant to the whole game like Kalm or the Mythril Mines. There is also a possibility they could drop an over-world map and have each Chapter stick to a few locations with quick travel between to maintain detail and save on cost and time. If you can play through Chapters seamlessly once they are all finished, I don't see this as too much of a problem. Frankly the pacing of the game could use some improvement anyway.
That is why I said "if". ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
At first, I thought it was a joke, then a misunderstanding, but now that I know it's real, I'm wondering just what they're planning that this seems like the most practical way to go about it. I trust Square, so I'm going to assume the only mistake is calling it "Episodes", although it might not be wholly inaccurate, maybe a hint at a bigger length, say, something like "Volumes" would have been better recieved, (Heck, I'd call it "Digital Disks" or something along those lines) Now...from what I'm hearing, this isn't going into a short, linear narrative, nay, if it's more accurate to say that the team doesn't want to limit itself, and the game is planned to be so amazingly huge in content and scale that a single disk, even a single release, couldn't possibly contain it then holy crap, this -might- just end up being -the- greatest remake ever made.
I think my biggest concern here is the way they sell it. This is Square Enix after all, there was always going to be some kind of catch. If it's just a staggered release schedule... well, I can live with it. However, if they start saying "Oh you buy each episode separately" I am going to be upset.
Not just for the hit to my wallet, but for the fact that FFVII is a huge single RPG. It has lots of interconnected systems. You gain experience, you customise characters, your decisions affect the outcome of quests hours and hours down the road. If the episodes are 'stand alone' you're going to lose a lot of that.
You know, I think they're doing this to avert the FFXV-like development period. Because waiting ten years while being fed little increments of the game along the way is easier? :monster:
Anyone who thought this was going to be a nice full game that you pay 50 quid for and enjoy forever needs to check themselves foo'.
This is Square-Enix with their biggest cash cow ever, they're going to be milking it dry anyway they can (Wutai as DLC anyone?), while I'm pumped for the remake, I'm more concerned with how they actually release the game.
I wish they'd just gone all out and said "It'll be early access! You'll get an 'episode' at a time until it's done until the full release!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
It wouldn't surprise me if this game takes them 10 years to make anyway.
I'm confused by the part that says each part will contain unique experiences. As in gameplay changes? I can live with it being multi part but they need to clear it up more.
I just hope we arent arent stuck downing this over the psn. My net is slow and i dont feel like spending two days just downloading each part. This is a terrible idea....
I do love how they try to plead poverty. "It's impossible to do unless we do it this way!"
What that actually means is - this is the only way the brass were willing to bankroll it, which is not quite the same thing. Which I can sympathise with to an extent, but lest we forget this is Square Enix. They're not exactly strapped for cash. So they could have done it as one big title, sacrificing a few $$$ for the better PR. But that's a hard sell to the person who has to worry about 12 months forecasts.
I just hope there's nothing gimmicky about it and it is literally just a case of releasing the full, connected game in chunks. If at the end of development, whenever that is, I can sit down and play Final Fantasy VII from start to finish as a full RPG, I'll be content enough. I can live with a bit of a stop/start road to get to that point.
Wasn't that Minecraft Story Mode released on disc with the first episode available and the rest available to download when they're ready? Maybe Square Enix will do something similar to this. I can't see a title THIS big just being limited to digital only before a disc based release further down the line, like Life is Strange.
With Final Fantasy VII I imagine they'll do it all. Disc episode 1 + downloads, possibly disc versions of all episodes, then a full 'FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE - COMPLETE' disc at the end of it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
This is the really worrying aspect to me as well. It does remind me of the FFXIII trilogy. Each game is going to be entirely different from each other, rather than a cohesive whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
Someone put a comment on Facebook about the meteor fall in FFVII. Like it was supposed to be hitting in three days or something, but if you waited for 3 actual days, it didn't fall. Obviously because there was no time limit factored in to the game mechanics. But what if, like you say, it was spread across three releases and the -Episode 3- Final Fantasy VII: Meteorfall (WILL THERE BE SUBTITLES?) was based on something similar to Lightning Returns countdown. I haven't played LR myself so I don't have a full understanding, but of you don't finish it in time you get an alternate ending?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeThis is the really worrying aspect to me as well. It does remind me of the FFXIII trilogy. Each game is going to be entirely different from each other, rather than a cohesive whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
Pretty sure it's one game split into parts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeThis is the really worrying aspect to me as well. It does remind me of the FFXIII trilogy. Each game is going to be entirely different from each other, rather than a cohesive whole.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
This is my take on it. Especially after finding this article detailing SE trying to fix their internal development issues they stumbled upon in the PS2/3 era. It explains in full the issues that plagued FFXIII and XIV 1.0 and some of other glaring issues like how the FFVII PS3 Tech demo took six months to develop and millions of dollars for a 30 second video utilizing pre-scripted scenarios and characters. I can't believe no one over there saw this as a problem until later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Its not so much that the game is the most massive thing they ever made, it has more to do with ballooning costs for development in the HD age, in a gaming culture and franchise that banks on high end visual designs. If SE made the game using the engine and aesthetic style of Crisis Core, they could probably make the game completely for one disc and in relative (for them) short development time. The issue is that the fans and developers want something with Advent Children and the PS3 Tech Demo's visual detail, so they'll have to piece meal the development cycle to avoid the problems that have hounded the last four numbered FFs.
Or they could step away from photo-realism, and choose a visual aesthetic that more closely matches the original game. Personally, I'd be fine with Kingdom Hearts style graphics for this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoThis is my take on it. Especially after finding this article detailing SE trying to fix their internal development issues they stumbled upon in the PS2/3 era. It explains in full the issues that plagued FFXIII and XIV 1.0 and some of other glaring issues like how the FFVII PS3 Tech demo took six months to develop and millions of dollars for a 30 second video utilizing pre-scripted scenarios and characters. I can't believe no one over there saw this as a problem until later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Its not so much that the game is the most massive thing they ever made, it has more to do with ballooning costs for development in the HD age, in a gaming culture and franchise that banks on high end visual designs. If SE made the game using the engine and aesthetic style of Crisis Core, they could probably make the game completely for one disc and in relative (for them) short development time. The issue is that the fans and developers want something with Advent Children and the PS3 Tech Demo's visual detail, so they'll have to piece meal the development cycle to avoid the problems that have hounded the last four numbered FFs.
Well the majority of fans and the development team wanted the high end graphics, so that is what we're getting.
If the game takes too much space, they can just release it as a multidisc game instead of episodes that together add up to much more than a normal game. Sounds like a bad excuse at worst, but we'll have to wait and see.
Switching discs wouldn't be necessary if they make one install disc and another to keep in the console while you played. If they can't fit the game within 100 GB, the dev team is the problem, not the storage medium.
So apparently each episode will be the size of a full game and will each be a unique story. So it sounds very much like these are separate experiences allowing you to play chunks of FFVII as self-contained games, and less part of one big whole.
It's almost like they're listening to me saying "Well, as long as it's not like this..." and then changing the design to make it like that.
This. Episodes for Final Fantasy VII is stupid as smurf when a multidisc game would work just fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
If this is the case then I wonder how they would enable the carrying over of items, levels, Materia etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
That's my concern. Would that even be a thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogleIf this is the case then I wonder how they would enable the carrying over of items, levels, Materia etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
There has to be, surely. If they don't it will be like starting at Level 1 on disc 2 :/Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxThat's my concern. Would that even be a thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogleIf this is the case then I wonder how they would enable the carrying over of items, levels, Materia etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Basically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
"Oh no, some people liked the action based combat! Quick, how can we kill the hype for this game even more?!"
So, no more backtracking. No exploration outside of where you're supposed to go next. No optional content...
It looks like this remake will, at least, prove exactly why the current AAA development system leads to objectively inferior products.
What makes you think they will? Lightning started back with no abilities during Lightning Returns, after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogleIf this is the case then I wonder how they would enable the carrying over of items, levels, Materia etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Lots of games can load saves from other games. Some games can even load saves from a different platform. MGS5 can load data from Ground Zeroes. FFX on PS4 can load data from FFX on PS3. Rogue Legacy can cross-save in either direction, PS4 to PS3 and PS3 to PS4. It's also automatic.
When I hear "each episode will be a full sized game", i can't help but to look at the length of many current gen titles. A full story-focused game can be as little as 8 hours nowadays.
Why makes you think it will be difficult to carry over progress and items? PS1 era was able to do it with separate discs, and technology is far and away better than it was in the 90s.
Now, if they will (since these are basically separate games and not just installments) is another question entirely.
Oh, that's an overreaction if I ever saw one. They said they are adding MORE content to areas and that can't be contained on one disc. So to be able to add in MORE content they have to split it up. They are making the graphics very realistic and using the Unreal Engine 4 to do so. They're aiming to make this huge world. They will have trouble with the current data storage systems so they're releasing it in parts.
I'm perfectly okay with this myself and find no issue. If we're getting more content with amazing graphics, I don't really care how many games it takes to get it out. As long as it comes out!
EDIT: The bioware games can manage to port over choices from their different games currently so i'm sure it's possible for these games too.
Well if it ends up episodic, I know I'll wait until they're all complete and I can buy the entire thing in one cheap bundle.
Yeah, honestly this doesn't bother me at all.
-debris falls behind me crushing innocent bystanders-Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
What overreaction?
They're building each "episode" into its own full game. Why bother porting things? It would ruin the experience if you are the wrong level or have the wrong items when the new game starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
I, for one, am not looking forward to playing through Midgar in four episodes, each with its own final boss and epic storyline that will be seen through to completion in thirty hour sections.
Sorry, I'll just go play the original.
No one is stopping you from playing the original. Go happy. Enjoy that one.
We'll enjoy our new one.
Will you, though? Will you really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
Or will you get it, expecting to like it, only to find out it's a huge mess? And then either defend it out of fanboyism for the original and the dream of what the remake could have been, or put it away, forget about it, and never buy the remaining episodes?
We'll see what will really happen. I'm certainly not saying that the game is guaranteed to be awful. I just think showing any optimism at these baffling design changes is not a good idea, given Square's track record for the last decade.
Honestly, I'm worried for Bravely Second now. How quickly Square forgets what makes a good game...
VII isn't even in my top 5 FFs, but I will still enjoy it. Yes, yes I really will. I think you're placing your opinion onto others. I personally just think it looks fun so far. :)
I enjoy all of them because I'm not an overly critical person on really any media :lol:. Heck, i'm still excited about XV and it's been a decade lol
It all hinges on a very big 'if' really. I have two scenarios in my head: 1) Final Fantasy VII in all its glory, released in chunks. 2) Various chunks of Final Fantasy VII released as their own short stories, entirely independent from one another. If it's the former, great. If the latter... less excited.
And of course as Square are being their usual selves when it comes to terrible communication, it's easy to imagine (and speculate wildly) either way.
That...is an -amazing- idea. Not in the aspect that we'd have limited time once a point of no return happens, but it'd add a sense of urgency that wasn't in the original. You'd have to add like a week or two of gameplay time once the Shinra Rocket hits, maybe? But this helps warm me over to the Digital Disks idea a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
And yes, Lightning Returns reset your progress a day or so if you got to the finals days without enough souls saved.
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Originally Posted by fat_moogle
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Originally Posted by Skyblade
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Originally Posted by fat_moogle
A different game with a different goal, from a different director leading a different team, making a game that carries a different battle system than its series through. We're not expecting FFVII to change the very basics of the combat form one part to another... We know they're going to be carrying over levels, stats, materia, weapons, accessories, everything. Save data is going to be the same through episodes, surely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
This. I am -not- perfectly ok with this. I find issue, myself. I was, like you, ready to go and buy a single disk sometime within the next few years. But I know jack-all about game development and if a team that has consistently delivered the greatest games I've played in my life, has settled, after years and years of contemplation, into spending millions in this kind of release, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
The trailers look great, so I can't believe we're complaining while, say, the KoF fanbase is complaining about graphics, the Dark Cloud fanbase is crying for a new installment, the Last Guardian fanbase is crying tears of happiness and would likely be grateful for an episodic release, and the XenoSaga fanbase is never even going to see a remake of their series.
"I've been telling you for years, it's impossible. But wait! I think I've found a way! I'm doing it! and I'm adding -more- content! And check this out, I'm going to deliver the a huge game that I want to live up to the original's impact, and in a timely fashion too! but I'll be doing it piece by piece, hope you don't mind."
"SCREW YOU!!"
If it's anything like what I expect from a Final Fantasy VII Remake, then yes, I'll buy the whole thing. Square is not (anymore) stupid enough to screw itself over for no reason. Obviously they're still working on this as an RPG, they obviously have to work the sidequests and backtracking (what little of it there was in FFVII) into the game. I'm too wondering how I'm gonna go back to Fort Condor after visiting the Gold Saucer, and how I'm going to get the mythril chunk when I want it, but they're probably going to plan the releases around giving the player as much of a choice as possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
If the whole thing is disappointing in content, releases, or carrying over from one episode to another, or fails to provide the options the original did once I actually play it, I promise I'll be right there complaining with you. The only two things I want to see, is how many episodes this is going to take, and how much they expect us to pay for each.
What I'm saying is, this isn't the first time Square does something insane. If it fails, it won't be their first major screw-up, but if it works and creates the JRPG of our times(again), it won't be the first time they've pulled off something incredible.
It's gonna be seven episodes.
Calling it.
They would be that lame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Either they are doing 3 big episodes, similiar to the original discs or something like the 7 chapters I have mentioned. The question is how much it is gonna cost but in my opinion 3 big episodes or 7 also relatively big should not make such a big difference when it comes to the overall price.
Maybe we will be getting the first episode next year. That would be cool.
Yeah, cost is my main concern. If they expect 60 dollars for each episode I'm out, and I don't think that's an unreasonable stance to take. If they did it like Telltale games on PC where the next part is automatically downloaded after getting the base game it wouldn't be so bad. But I think consoles require the player to individually download each new episode when they become available. I could be wrong since I never did the waiting game there outside of GoT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
With me importing games around the 100 bucks area I can live with some extra price for DLC on episodes. I mean, I doubt they are gonna be like "okay, 7 episodes, 7 x 60 = 420 bucks, thank you".
I think we're dreaming if we think we're getting the whole thing for $60 at launch. Each episode may be a bit under that, but I expect you'll be looking at $80-$100 for the 'full' game.Quote:
Originally Posted by AyenYeah, cost is my main concern. If they expect 60 dollars for each episode I'm out, and I don't think that's an unreasonable stance to take. If they did it like Telltale games on PC where the next part is automatically downloaded after getting the base game it wouldn't be so bad. But I think consoles require the player to individually download each new episode when they become available. I could be wrong since I never did the waiting game there outside of GoT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I personally thought FFXII looked fun from the trailers. It wasn't. I thought FFXIII looked fun from the trailers. It wasn't either. Dirge of Cerberus. Crisis Core. FFXIII-2. Lightning Returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
Square excels at making gorgeous trailers for crappy games these days. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be any good at making good games anymore. In fact, the prettier the game is, the worse it tends to be upon release.
Maybe you'll enjoy it. In which case, I'm glad you have a game you'll enjoy.
Maybe I'll enjoy it.
I just really, really doubt it.
So, 90% of the game's optional content is going to be missing, because it took place during that countdown time?Quote:
Originally Posted by YoshioKSTThat...is an -amazing- idea. Not in the aspect that we'd have limited time once a point of no return happens, but it'd add a sense of urgency that wasn't in the original. You'd have to add like a week or two of gameplay time once the Shinra Rocket hits, maybe? But this helps warm me over to the Digital Disks idea a bit more.Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
And yes, Lightning Returns reset your progress a day or so if you got to the finals days without enough souls saved.
Of course, that system even being implemented was why I never played more than an hour or two of Lightning Returns. So, as soon as THAT "feature" is announced, it's going to guarantee that I don't buy it.
You're not expecting FFVII to change the very basics of the combat from one part to another. I'm expecting everything to be built from the ground up with no cohesion or unity to vision with each episode, because I've lost almost all of my faith in Square is a developer.Quote:
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Originally Posted by fat_moogle
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Originally Posted by Skyblade
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Originally Posted by fat_moogle
A different game with a different goal, from a different director leading a different team, making a game that carries a different battle system than its series through. We're not expecting FFVII to change the very basics of the combat form one part to another... We know they're going to be carrying over levels, stats, materia, weapons, accessories, everything. Save data is going to be the same through episodes, surely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
The only things we have confirmed that are returning from the original game are:
Characters, locations, and cross-dressing.
We know they're changing the mechanics. We know they're changing the story. We know they're changing the format. I don't expect this game to bear more than passing resemblance to the original.
Square hasn't "consistently" delivered the greatest games of my life IN HALF OF MY LIFETIME.Quote:
This. I am -not- perfectly ok with this. I find issue, myself. I was, like you, ready to go and buy a single disk sometime within the next few years. But I know jack-all about game development and if a team that has consistently delivered the greatest games I've played in my life, has settled, after years and years of contemplation, into spending millions in this kind of release, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
Again: The trailers for XII looked great. The trailers for XIII looked great. The trailers for XIII-2 looked great. The trailers for...Quote:
The trailers look great, so I can't believe we're complaining while, say, the KoF fanbase is complaining about graphics, the Dark Cloud fanbase is crying for a new installment, the Last Guardian fanbase is crying tears of happiness and would likely be grateful for an episodic release, and the XenoSaga fanbase is never even going to see a remake of their series.
Good trailers do not make a good game.
People can complain about graphics all they want. I'll take a hit on the graphics to get a better game any time. Which is why I was enjoying Bravely Default while everyone else was waiting for XV.
How much can you change of a game before it ceases to be a remake and just becomes a lousy piece of overcomplicated trout? Which is a good description of 90% of what Square has made in the past decade and a half.Quote:
"I've been telling you for years, it's impossible. But wait! I think I've found a way! I'm doing it! and I'm adding -more- content! And check this out, I'm going to deliver the a huge game that I want to live up to the original's impact, and in a timely fashion too! but I'll be doing it piece by piece, hope you don't mind."
"SCREW YOU!!"
My problem is that this is EXACTLY what I "expected" in a Final Fantasy VII remake from the current Square Enix.Quote:
If it's anything like what I expect from a Final Fantasy VII Remake, then yes, I'll buy the whole thing. Square is not (anymore) stupid enough to screw itself over for no reason. Obviously they're still working on this as an RPG, they obviously have to work the sidequests and backtracking (what little of it there was in FFVII) into the game. I'm too wondering how I'm gonna go back to Fort Condor after visiting the Gold Saucer, and how I'm going to get the mythril chunk when I want it, but they're probably going to plan the releases around giving the player as much of a choice as possibly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
It's just nothing at all like what I "wanted" in a Final Fantasy VII remake.
That's why I'm finding it very difficult to maintain the hype. Everything they have announced or explained about this remake is EXACTLY what I would have predicted the current Square to do:
Ruin the original plot? Check.
Ruin the original game mechanics? Check.
Release the game in a way to milk the most money from it? Check.
Focus on graphics to the exclusion of all else, including fundamental game design elements? Check.
Remove all sense of agency and exploration from the game? Check.
It sounds precisely like what I'd expect from a remake. Which is why I DID NOT WANT them to remake it.
I could be wrong. I could be massively misinterpreting this. But nothing they have said so far has given me any reason to trust that they have any idea what actually makes a good game any more. They don't appear to have learned from any of their (numerous) failings.
I'm more interested in how much they're going to butcher the plot, gameplay, characterization, exploration, minigames, tone, themes, and world design beyond what we've already seen.Quote:
If the whole thing is disappointing in content, releases, or carrying over from one episode to another, or fails to provide the options the original did once I actually play it, I promise I'll be right there complaining with you. The only two things I want to see, is how many episodes this is going to take, and how much they expect us to pay for each.
It will, however, be the first time they've pulled off something incredible with their flagship franchise in longer than I care to remember. If we discount Type-0 and Bravely Default, both of which were developed by relatively tiny sub-sections of the company, and neither of which was due to be released in the West, it would be the first time they've pulled off something incredible AT ALL since, what, 2001?Quote:
What I'm saying is, this isn't the first time Square does something insane. If it fails, it won't be their first major screw-up, but if it works and creates the JRPG of our times(again), it won't be the first time they've pulled off something incredible.
Can't wait to see how much bickering there is when we actually get a finished game/episode/whatever.
Skyblade, it sounds like you just hate everything new SE is doing and are stuck in the nostalgia "golden days". No one will be taking the original from you so you can enjoy that one all you want.
I personally have enjoyed every SE entry that has been out recently. Heck, even the cell phone games. (Although I haven't played LR yet but more because I've been super busy than because I'm avoiding it. Same for Type-0 but also price tag there as I don't have a PS4 yet.)
Your tastes don't translate to others so by saying the whole game is going to suck because YOU didn't like other things doesn't mean that it actually sucks for many people.
You CANNOT know if it will suck or ruin the original story because it isn't out. So by you saying it's ruined, making that a declarative fact, you're trying to speak for all fans by already declaring it is horrible. You can't speak for all fans because they don't all share your taste.
If you are so upset by what they're doing then don't pay attention to it. The classic VII just got added to the PS4 with all the new trophies, you can invest time in that new port instead if you'd like.
I take it you don't play MMOs..... XIV is fantastic and probably, so far of what i've played, one of the best FF storylines i've seen in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
Eh, I think I'm in a pretty good demographic for this because I liked the game, but not enough that changes would ruin the whole thing for me. Like if they messed up FFVIII or IX :stare:
But with that being said, it does look less interesting to me than the original. I prefer turn-based and I have no idea what this episodic thing means. Like others have said, I hope it doesn't come out being obscenely expensive because we have to buy the game several times
If it gets me pieces of the game sooner and more content overall, I'll all for it unless each episode is a full $50. SE loves milking its fans but I don't think they'd go that far. My guess is that it will be three episodes for $30 each which makes it a $90 game which is expensive but may not be too bad if it is actually really big and really fun.
But I still get to complain, don't I? This is the internet. What will I do if I can't whine about things I don't like? :ohdear:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
And I don't hate everything new SE is doing. As I said, Bravely Default and Type-0 were bloody fantastic (Edit: I also still enjoy PARTS of the Kingdom Hearts games, even if they do have some really weird design choices and a plot that left the realm of sanity four entries ago. Theatrhythm is also pretty good, and one of the best rhythm games I've ever played). I just think the majority of the company is WAY too graphics obsessed, and has forgotten what makes a good game. Bravely Default had objectively the worst graphics of any console game Square has released in years. It was also, by far, the single best thing they have produced in years.
Type-0 HD is on Steam, if you want to try it there.Quote:
I personally have enjoyed every SE entry that has been out recently. Heck, even the cell phone games. (Although I haven't played LR yet but more because I've been super busy than because I'm avoiding it. Same for Type-0 but also price tag there as I don't have a PS4 yet.)
So, since all likes/dislikes are entirely subjective, everyone has their own opinions, and consensus is impossible, we should shut down the forum because there is no point to expressing our views or explaining the rationales behind them to anyone else.Quote:
Your tastes don't translate to others so by saying the whole game is going to suck because YOU didn't like other things doesn't mean that it actually sucks for many people.
By similar logic, YOU cannot say that you'll enjoy it because it isn't out yet.Quote:
You CANNOT know if it will suck or ruin the original story because it isn't out. So by you saying it's ruined, making that a declarative fact, you're trying to speak for all fans by already declaring it is horrible. You can't speak for all fans because they don't all share your taste.
I don't want to hate it, and I don't want to be unfair to it by coming to a conclusion before I have sufficient information.Quote:
If you are so upset by what they're doing then don't pay attention to it. The classic VII just got added to the PS4 with all the new trophies, you can invest time in that new port instead if you'd like.
I'm TRYING to keep an open mind with it.
Square's just making it really, really hard to stay enthused.
XIV was so abysmal that they had to completely rip it apart and rebuild it from scratch. EVERYONE loathed XIV. The company made a public apology for it.Quote:
I take it you don't play MMOs..... XIV is fantastic and probably, so far of what i've played, one of the best FF storylines i've seen in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
You do get to complain but don't make declarative statements as you have been as that seems that you're trying to take a forefront postion about the game FOR fans rather than a fan voicing an opinion. Preface it with "I personally think.." rather than, "this sucks. They've ruined it."Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeBut I still get to complain, don't I? This is the internet. What will I do if I can't whine about things I don't like? :ohdear:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
SE has been the forefront of graphics for literal decades. That was the whole big hooplah with the original VII. It was the first 3D RPG. VIII was one of the first that tracked actual human movements for their cinematics. etc etc. It's kinda their thing to have the best graphics. Focusing on them is no surprise here as it's pretty normal from them.Quote:
And I don't hate everything new SE is doing. As I said, Bravely Default and Type-0 were bloody fantastic. I just think the majority of the company is WAY too graphics obsessed, and has forgotten what makes a good game. Bravely Default had objectively the worst graphics of any console game Square has released in years. It was also, by far, the single best thing they have produced in years.
So that's a no then.Quote:
XIV was so abysmal that they had to completely rip it apart and rebuild it from scratch. EVERYONE loathed XIV. The company made a public apology for it.Quote:
I take it you don't play MMOs..... XIV is fantastic and probably, so far of what i've played, one of the best FF storylines i've seen in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
Looking at the Witcher Bundle on steam, the combines size of The Witcher (Enhanced Edition), The Witcher 2 (Enhanced Edition), and The Witcher 3 is a total of 75GB of space recommended to run. Three absolutely massive games.
A bluray on PS4 is 100GB (though you can do a 128GB blu Ray, I don't know know if those would run on PS4 though, or if anyone does it).
When Square says the game is to big to not do this episodically, I don't believe them.
Wonder if skyblade has actually played either of the versions, or if he's just going by things he's heard about the first one.
I think it's more like SE can't afford to wait for the money to start rolling in until the game is entirely complete :pQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
I personally think that this sucks, and they've ruined it.Quote:
Originally Posted by FreyaYou do get to complain but don't make declarative statements as you have been as that seems that you're trying to take a forefront postion about the game FOR fans rather than a fan voicing an opinion. Preface it with "I personally think.." rather than, "this sucks. They've ruined it."Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeBut I still get to complain, don't I? This is the internet. What will I do if I can't whine about things I don't like? :ohdear:Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
That better?
Although, let me iterate on this a bit.
From what I can tell, they've ruined it as a remake of FFVII. They've changed to much. I'm not sure what it IS now, but it isn't a remake of FFVII.
That doesn't mean that it's bad, just that it's not the same game anymore. They've changed too much. They've rebuilt the plot, the mechanics, the atmosphere, and the fundamental structure of the game.
This isn't a remake, it's a re-imagining.
That is not, necessarily, a bad thing in itself. It's just not what I wanted.
They didn't used to sacrifice gameplay for those graphics, though.Quote:
SE has been the forefront of graphics for literal decades. That was the whole big hooplah with the original VII. It was the first 3D RPG. VIII was one of the first that tracked actual human movements for their cinematics. etc etc. It's kinda their thing to have the best graphics. Focusing on them is no surprise here as it's pretty normal from them.Quote:
And I don't hate everything new SE is doing. As I said, Bravely Default and Type-0 were bloody fantastic. I just think the majority of the company is WAY too graphics obsessed, and has forgotten what makes a good game. Bravely Default had objectively the worst graphics of any console game Square has released in years. It was also, by far, the single best thing they have produced in years.
Pretty much. I don't have time for them anymore. The pacing on most MMOs is atrocious. They push you into group content, sacrificing player agency and personal progression for a social experience I care nothing about, PvP content I suck at and do not enjoy, or massive group battles where I never feel as though I am contributing anything or getting anything out of the experience.Quote:
So that's a no then.Quote:
XIV was so abysmal that they had to completely rip it apart and rebuild it from scratch. EVERYONE loathed XIV. The company made a public apology for it.Quote:
I take it you don't play MMOs..... XIV is fantastic and probably, so far of what i've played, one of the best FF storylines i've seen in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
I have yet to see a single MMO that wouldn't be vastly improved if it were converted into a single player game. I used to enjoy a number of them, and I respect the rights of others to enjoy them. And, if Square has made one that appeals to a great number of people, I congratulate them for it.
At least they can do SOMETHING right when it comes to large-scale projects.
I'm in two minds about this.
On the one hand I'm worried SE will come up with some bulltrout pricing structure for this.
On the other hand I'm also kinda glad. The last game Nomura released as a Director, on a home console, was Kingdom Hearts II. That was like 12+ years ago. Sure he's shipped some handheld titles as a Director since then, but the other home console title he was working on... Versus XIII... was in development forever. At least if VII is going to be episodic there's more chance I'll actually see it within the next 2 years. Hopefully having an episodic structure will also get SEJ to sort their trout out when it comes to their own development cycles.
The thing is though :
A ) Not everybody is made of money
B ) Paying roughly about $60 for ( assuming here ) seven episodes is smurfing stupid when SE can easily include about 4 discs for the one game, like they did during the old PSONE days. It's not that hard.
Just not going to even- I'm just going to watch this game on a Let's Play on YouTube when it comes out. You rich folks can enjoy spending up to $ 200- 300 on one video game.
But then they can't milk the franchise like they've been doing since the beginning of the Compilation.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybee
Trout, I shouldn't even be surprised by this. Why do I continue to let things I should've seen coming a mile away shock me? Foolish Ayen. You and your optimism.
I think it's a little bit premature to start freaking out that this game is going to be $300.
But it's not too early to start freaking out that it's going to be the perfect remake that exactly captures the feel of the original game but elevates everything else about it to the point of perfection?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
Personally, I think $300 is an underestimate.
If each episode is supposed to be its own game (which is what they seem to be billing it as), then we're looking at $50 or so per episode. Even with just 7 episodes, that's $350. And it could easily be more. Plus DLC.
Who's saying 7 episodes? Based on what?
I think 3, one per PS1 disc, is more likely
Maybe the plan is to release a new part every 2 - 3 years. If each disc is its own game, then it's more like a franchise of its own at this point, which would make each part a sequel game pretty much. I already see people in other places comparing it more to like how Mass Effect works than how Telltale works.
So take your average price range, and average consumer with a job, and by the time the next part comes out they would've made that money back to be able to afford the next installment.
I'm just speculating, but that may be the end goal. We could be looking at a FFVII Trilogy.
I'm kinda starting to warm up to the idea. Dammit.
^ All of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeBut it's not too early to start freaking out that it's going to be the perfect remake that exactly captures the feel of the original game but elevates everything else about it to the point of perfection?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
Personally, I think $300 is an underestimate.
If each episode is supposed to be its own game (which is what they seem to be billing it as), then we're looking at $50 or so per episode. Even with just 7 episodes, that's $350. And it could easily be more. Plus DLC.
It's so ludicrous.
Could you imagine paying for each disc when the OG game came out ? No, because it would've been stupid.
What's even more silly is that this is a game that we have all loved and played before, we are paying extra for a game that's not new and what will be extras and will be included will be things like Genesis etc- things most of us don't enjoy.
Not even smurfing Scoorge Mc Duck would be this full of greed and he brought his maid a Halloween card for her birthday because it was cheaper.
Okay, for the sake of conversation, I'll humor your guess that it will be 7 episodes*. The implication I got from their statement was that the game will be released over 3 or 4 years, as they make it. So is $50 twice a year really THAT much? The way I see it, SE gets their money to continue making a game, fans get a superior product that has has lots of time and resources invested into it, and no one has to pay a huge lump sum for one overly massive game. Everyone wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeBut it's not too early to start freaking out that it's going to be the perfect remake that exactly captures the feel of the original game but elevates everything else about it to the point of perfection?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
Personally, I think $300 is an underestimate.
If each episode is supposed to be its own game (which is what they seem to be billing it as), then we're looking at $50 or so per episode. Even with just 7 episodes, that's $350. And it could easily be more. Plus DLC.
And for what it's worth, I DO think it's too early to be picking apart what little we've seen and start fanboy raging about how OMG IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAAAAAME. I've expressed displeasure at it being turned into an action game, but we all knew going in that was going to happen. Apart from that, I really can't criticize what we've seen because it looks gorgeous. Okay, I can criticize Wedge's voice because it's horrible, but everything else is great.
*I think they'll probably work this like Telltale does and you pay one fee up front and get to download it as it's released. Just because each installment is being treated as a separate game doesn't mean they'll charge you for it. It just means there's a lot of content because FFVII is a massive game, and it's going to be even more massive with updated graphics.
I definitely expect you're going to end up paying more than standard retail for everything here. If they truly are going as big and grand as they say, and really honestly throwing everything at it to make it the ULTIMATE FFVII experience...
That's going to come with a price. My guess is that one of the reasons this took so long is because the folks at the top of the chain refused to fund a remake, as it would be very unlikely to sell as well as the original. And seeing as doing it justice would cost far more than the original... so to try and make up that shortfall, I expect they're going to try and get more cash out of every sale they do get. Probably around 50% more, I think that'd be the limit before too many people started just saying 'nuts to this'. Think about it, if they release one episode every 6 months, $20 per episode... that seems reasonable, right? 5 episodes and voila, that's $100 per user.
Yes, for a video game. A video game. Something that's supposed to be fun entertainment for a couple of hours on a Saturday night. Plus it all adds up ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
SE is turning into EA and those Sims games that cost about $100 just for some new Sim hair :/
But, to be fair, it looks a lot prettier than The Sims.Quote:
Originally Posted by maybeeYes, for a video game. A video game. Something that's supposed to be fun entertainment for a couple of hours on a Saturday night. Plus it all adds up ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar JinksOkay, for the sake of conversation, I'll humor your guess that it will be 7 episodes. The implication I got from their statement was that the game will be released over 3 or 4 years, as they make it. So is $50 twice a year really THAT much?Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeBut it's not too early to start freaking out that it's going to be the perfect remake that exactly captures the feel of the original game but elevates everything else about it to the point of perfection?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
Personally, I think $300 is an underestimate.
If each episode is supposed to be its own game (which is what they seem to be billing it as), then we're looking at $50 or so per episode. Even with just 7 episodes, that's $350. And it could easily be more. Plus DLC.
SE is turning into EA and those Sims games that cost about $100 just for some new Sim hair :/
That's all we're expected to pay for, right? Graphics?
Quote:
Originally Posted by maybeeYes, for a video game. A video game. Something that's supposed to be fun entertainment for a couple of hours on a Saturday night. Plus it all adds up ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
SE is turning into EA and those Sims games that cost about $100 just for some new Sim hair :/
Yeah, but it all adds up...over three years? I can't speak for your finances, but the average person should be able to pay that with no problem. Skip eating out or going to the movies or Starbucks a few times. Bam. You've got the cash.
I'd like to hear from the FFXIV players who pay $15 a month to play a game how they'd feel about it. Since they're paying about $200 a year to play a game.
And also saying "Oh, it's a fun game for a Saturday night" is kind of disingenuous. People aren't going to play this game to sit down for a blow off fun experience. If they want a game like that, they're going to play Mario Party or Little Big Planet or something.
http://i.imgur.com/c2OhQ1M.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by maybee
Jinx and I seemed to have arrived to the same conclusion on pricing.
You can't drown Genesis in the pool though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
Basically- that and then there's DLC for Yuffie, Vincent, the Weapon bosses, Lightning Cloud Costume, anything else SE can fart out of their asses for some more cash.
I thought they already said they weren't gonna bring in the compilation characters.
The verdict is still kind of out on that one since Wolf's last post on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
where is this?
If you want to pay that much overtime and that you are completely fine with it, that's fine- though I just feel like it's incredibly stupid to end paying $300 + just for a video game remake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar JinksQuote:
Originally Posted by maybeeYes, for a video game. A video game. Something that's supposed to be fun entertainment for a couple of hours on a Saturday night. Plus it all adds up ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jar Jar Jinks
SE is turning into EA and those Sims games that cost about $100 just for some new Sim hair :/
Yeah, but it all adds up...over three years? I can't speak for your finances, but the average person should be able to pay that with no problem. Skip eating out or going to the movies or Starbucks a few times. Bam. You've got the cash.
I'd like to hear from the FFXIV players who pay $15 a month to play a game how they'd feel about it. Since they're paying about $200 a year to play a game.
And also saying "Oh, it's a fun game for a Saturday night" is kind of disingenuous. People aren't going to play this game to sit down for a blow off fun experience. If they want a game like that, they're going to play Mario Party or Little Big Planet or something.
YouTube is always fun and free, so just going to go there and watch other people play the game
IMO the whole episode thing is just very greedy of Square, and has already mentioned- they could easily just put the game onto separate CD's all at once like the original game.
It was in the Gameplay Trailer thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Too many FFVII threads going on. I can't keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoIf you're talking about this interview from Famitsu. He never said anything about the Compilation, which technically would be "old" characters seeing how it's been ten years since that fiasco started. He simply said no "new characters" which looking at ports and remakes of other JRPGs, it tends to be trendy to shoe-horn in a new character to mix it up for old fans. So I would say its still a possibility this game will tie into the Compilation unless you're referencing a different interview.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAKitase actually said in an interview a little while ago that none of the new characters introduced in the compilation will be featured in this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno*waits for Genesis, Deep Ground, and the Legendary Turk to make cameos in the next trailer.*Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
I think they are doing this more due to time than anything. Can you imagine how much work this project involves based off of the trailer we've seen of the Midgar gameplay... which is ultimately like, what... the first hour of the game.
I see this episodic approach as a way of getting large chunks of the game in the hands of players sooner. Sure SE will more than likely make a tidy profit out of it (much of which I imagine will get funneled back into the development of subsequent episodes), but I'd rather be able to play it sooner than have to wait 10 years (optimistically) to play the complete experience.
What I imagine is the first episode will have an option to pay up front for all the future episodes, or the future episodes can be bought individually at the consumers discretion. Much like the way Resident Evil Revelations 2 worked, where the cost of all the episodes combined pretty much amounted to standard retail price. Episodes will probably be staggered over the PS4/One lifespan and we'll more than likely see the "complete collection" as a bundle around launch of the PS5/XBOX4K.
Either way I think it's a bit premature to start throwing the toys out of the pram when they haven't even announced how many episodes there will be, or how much they will cost.
^ I agree. We're all running away with ourselves a bit here!
Well, I mean, we're all pretty handsome. Why wouldn't we want to run away with ourselves?Quote:
Originally Posted by fat_moogle
The Episodic nature of the game doesn't really bother (course I'm probably not going to be day one or maybe even year one purchase) but I can easily see them released as 8-10 hour blocks of gameplay for each episode. The first one would be the Midgard section, the second would do the Nibelheim flashback and everything up to Costa Del Sol and then so forth. If its cut down to bite size hunks like that, then the game could be anywhere from 7 to 15 episodes depending on how they cut it. If they are small 8-10 hour blocks, SE may make them about $15 to $20 dollars per episode and the series could be released with bi-annually depending on their production schedule. I'm actually assuming this whole thing may also be digital only with Episode 1 probably having a disk for old times sake but subsequent episodes will be pure digital just to save on resources.
Backtracking isn't going to be too much of an issue as the first disk is largely linear and the game only opens up once the Highwind becomes available about a third of the way into the second disk. I'm pretty sure the side content will be drastically changed anyway though I'm sure Chocobo Breeding, the Battle Arena, and the KotR quest will remain but be modified to some degree. "Extra story content" is pretty subjective as the stuff done for the remakes of FFIII and IV were minimal, with FFIV getting one new cutscene giving Golbez more backstory and III got the opening slightly changed to give the four faceless Onion Knights characterization that changed absolutely nothing about the game for better of for worse. Honestly, after the clustersmurf that was the Compilation, I would frankly be amazed to see SE find new ways to smurf up this game's plot anymore than it has to and I'm still expecting Genesis to show up in the Nibelheim scene in some capacity, despite that still being up in the air.
Course I don't really care at this point anymore. Everyone on this forum knows my feeling about VII so SE can whore this game as much as they want. smurf yeah, make Genesis a new party member and charge full retail price of $60 an episode and make it 21 episodes long (3 Discs times the allusion of 7) and have the ending ambiguously shoot us towards that FFVII-2 the Compilation promised us. Hell, I hope there is an entire section where you have to play as Cait Sith and only him, have his entire combat system be relegated to a slot machine to tie into both his Limit Break and the DMW from Crisis Core. It will be fantastic. Let the ending be changed where Holy saves the planet and resurrects Aerith and Zack while its at it. Then we can have Kitase say AC is still canon to the Remake just to make fans heads explode. :wcanoe:
There is no reason for Genesis in the Nibelheim flashback to be seen because neither Tifa nor Cloud have seen him. Cloud mixed his memories with Tifa's memories. Both did not see Genesis for the 5 minutes he appeared to beg for S-cells. Of course it is possible nonetheless as with the JENOVA-cell-confabulation everything can be brought in Cloud's mind - just as they did to bring in the Cloud version of the cellar incident even though only Sephiroth and Zack were included. It just is not guaranteed. I am expecting more of a Genesis hint went it comes to finding Banora or mentioning Deepground or "the greatest SOLDIERs to have every existed".
As far as episodes go, I expect (but am not angry if they do not appear) some more lively content) like playing Jessie and the others to defend the Sector 7 pillar, playing as Reno, Rude and Elena, et cetera.
Please, no Genesis. No Genesis. No Genesis. Pleeeeeeaase...
Pretty sure G only has a very little scene to be hinted. He was the secret ending chara in DoC therefore I think most of him will be shown after he returns and not during his sleep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
I was a little upset at the episode news at first, but as long as the price is reasonable then whatever. I have a bad feeling this method of releasing the remake is going to horrendously backfire, though.
Fans cannot be pleased, are talking crap and then end up buying it anyway. So backfiring ... it depends.
You forgot about the part where Cloud gets his ass handed to him protecting Tifa from Genesis Copies that ambush the group while Zack and Sephy are talking to Captain Emo. Not to mention that Crisis Core retcons why Zack and Sephy went there to begin with, though the Turks are there for the original reason. Speaking of, we also have the Turks wandering around the Reactor as well but they can easily be sidestepped from the plot since they only ever seem to come into contact with side characters and only engage Cloud after most of the story is said and done. You know despite having one of the original writers and two of the other writers on staff for the Compilation, the CoVII has a hard time keeping consistency with its own plot. :facepalm:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
I forgot nothing. There were replicas, but if Cloud has even seen Genesis for more than an second (or at all) or so was not mentioned. Also, seeing how much of the story can be expanded upon and can always be explained by "it was not mentioned before" it is not a retcon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
By the way: Retcons are not bad. FFVII-1 is a mess. It can only get better as long as the most important aspects are not totally rewritten.
I really don't think there's anything in the Compilation that makes the original story better. At all.
Shoo, go away, Fynn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/upload/1...1449570741.jpg
To those complaining: I'm genuinely interested in how people can give the likes of Mass Effect and Uncharted a free ride on having multiple games in the series which all tie into each other (okay, very loosely in Uncharted), but then when FFVII - a game that was probably longer than all three Mass Effects put together - having three games... they rage. I understand that the original was a single game. But they also weren't making it for the PS4, with the detail being put into the remake. I imagine that there is only so much a single game sale can cover for FFVII. I would love it if this turns out to be a single £50 game, but I would also be absolutely stunned. If this is indeed going to be the biggest game in history when it comes to the amount of data it takes up, then I am not shocked they would want to charge considerably more than the cost of a single game.
But as I've said before, people need to remember that this is not the best game in the world. This is just a tribute.
Well, I think the reason they're upset is that the game was initially a complete package that you could go through at your own pace. This time around, the scope will be limited for each episode. So comparingthis to Mass Effect or the like is really not that fair since those were designed from the beginning to be more games than one, while here we're dealing with a remake of a game that was already whole.
If it is episodes, then I'm fine with waiting until the end when it's all put together, I'm not too fussed these days on playing games as soon as they come out.
My only real concern is them including anything to do with the compilation. I'm with Fynn (and most fans it seems), at best it brings nothing to the original game, at worst it is a detremant.
You couldn't do "everything at once" in FFVII. That's why there were multiple discs. Different content on different discs. *shrug*
I can understand wanting to have everything at once. But as Aul mentioned - would you want to wait 10 years for that to happen? I mean, you can, I guess, wait until the final episode if you hate episodic content. That's what I'm doing with Dreamfall: Chapters. But FFVII I will be all over from the moment it is out, because, omg, if there is one game I will get on release without question it's an FFVII remake.
But my comparison price-wise is fair.
1. Mass Effect - £40
2. Mass Effect 2 - £40
3. Mass Effect 3 - £40
So that's £120 already. Right. But then you add in major DLC. Let's say that adds up to another, what, £40? Maybe? I'm really not good at DLC costs at release.
Anyway, £160 basically for the "full game" of Mass Effect. If FFVII ends up having more content than all three Mass Effects alongside their major DLC, then I feel that expecting the cost of the game to be £50 or so is ridiculous. And it's looking like this could well be the case. With that in mind, I think if I had to choose between paying £20-50 per "episode" or waiting a long time and paying £160 in one big whack... I'd prefer the former, thanks!
EDIT: Regarding the compilation, for the most part I agree that the original game was best as it was originally, and that I prefer it in that state. However, this game is a tribute. If I wanted to play the original, I'd play the original.
I wasn't saying the episodic format is wrong - I agree that it's better than waiting ten years. I'm just saying those complayining have a point - you could rush through as fast as you wanted, and you'd still have the whole game available to you from the getgo.
Only the FMVs were different for each discs. Disc 1 has the northern crater area and music on it. While it's true that you had to change discs, this was only really for storyline progression. Outside of FMVs, the game is about 100 MB, and all of it is present on every disc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Quests were limited by storyline progression, not what content was present on each particular disc.
Oooo I didn't know that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Wow, the entirety of Final Fantasy VII... 100MB... I'm looking at our speech packs on F1 right now and just one of them is almost double that.
Game development is an expensive process. How long will it take to make FFVII in its entirety to today's standards? There were four years between Skyrim and Fallout 4.I am confident that FFVII R has much better graphics than Fallout 4 and much more diverse areas where you simply can't cut and paste like you might do for Ruined Office Building #5.
Square-Enix are also... shall we say... less efficient than other companies. See: Kingdom Hearts III and FF Versus XIII aka FFXV. They've continually been pumping millions into these projects. They are both failures already as there is no way they will be able to make back what they've lost on them. Hell, look at their (not Japanese developed but) franchises Tomb Raider, Hitman and Sleeping Dogs. They all failed them despite selling millions.
Based on the above, I'll be really smurfing surprised if FFVII is completed in four years. I wouldn't be if it takes double that. They can't take another huge disaster like XV. They can't work on any more projects for years upon years without any signs of breaking even on it, much less profit. Space constraints, as I think NeoCracker said, is bulltrout. They're being forced to do this because it is not remotely financially viable to make FFVII in 2015 (and onwards) and release it as a single game.
It seems as though they've learned their lessons from the XV disaster and that's why they're trying something new. I don't like it, you don't like it, none of us like it. We'd all like to have FFVII Remake delivered for (price of triple A game in your country) in completeness tomorrow. I don't believe that it's possible. If this is what it takes to achieve it, so be it. If indie games that took a month to make are sold for $1 I don't have a problem with a multi-million budget game which has been worked on by thousands of staff for years costing more than a usual title. That's just simple business. Of course, I'm not overly sympathetic to Square-Enix and a decade of mismanagement means this is nobody's fault but theirs but I think that's how it's got to be.
I'd wager even the most of that is the pre-rendered backgrounds. The 3D models are extremely simple and often have no textures at all. The music is a midi-like format and each track is just a few kilobytes. The text for dialogue is of course also probably just a few kilobytes. Consider that all of shakespeare's works can be contained within 5 MB of uncompressed text.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxOooo I didn't know that!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Wow, the entirety of Final Fantasy VII... 100MB... I'm looking at our speech packs on F1 right now and just one of them is almost double that.
FFVII is not longer than the Mass Effect trilogy. What the hell are you doing in FFVII to last that long? I guess if you just line up the required story content for each game FFVII is longer than any of the ME games but that kind of goes against one of the main draws of the ME games. With everything, FFVII is at most 50% longer than a single ME game. And, unlike the ME trilogy which has three self-contained plots that are part of a larger narrative, FFVII is one continuous plot. I'm not against the FFVII episodic format in theory, but this type of approach is not really comparable to any of the major series right now, except possibly the Telltale games.
FFVII is definitely more than 50% longer than an ME game. I'm not sure what you're using as a measure of content, but going by "main story +" on this site which seems pretty decent...
ME - 29 hours
ME2 - 35 hours
ME3 - 35 hours
FFVII - 58 hours
If you're going for completionist...
ME - 43 hours
ME2 - 50 hours
ME3 - 48 hours
FFVII - 92 hours
And then consider the fact that the content of FFVII is what I would call "more diverse" than that of ME (although admittedly we don't know how that applies to the remake)...
EDIT: Just to reiterate, I'm talking about the development cost vs. reward thing. In other words, the cost of making FFVII would probably be considerably higher than the cost of making, say, ME (and potentially the entire ME series, although that's probably a stretch) and therefore they would want to justify that cost by increasing revenue. Essentially you get the scale of game you pay for.
Naturally, that includes pointless filler (aka grinding) in FF7. ME is more straight to the point with better pacing when it comes how how fast you gain levels, and the fact that player skills to a bigger degree can cut down on leveling time.
Not to mention the "roll a dice" mechanics of chocobo breeding. Now, I liked that minigame but that's what it was. Roll a dice and hope for a good chocobo. Spend time going back to the farm and check if you rolled a 6 or a 1, repeat the process if you rolled a 1. These things take time, and I'm not gonna hold it against any dev who cut this sort of mechanic out of the game.
Grinding isn't too different in each of the games in my opinion. In one game you grind on random and fixed battles with various mechanics, in another game you grind on reactive battles with various mechanics. 95% of the ME content was "move around, shoot things, talk to people." In other words, grind be a grind regardless. Looks like FFVII:Remake is going down the "3D real time battle" road closer to ME than it is to FFVII, so if they manage to do that while simultaneously retaining all the various other content in FFVII then I would argue that this game will cost at least twice as much as an ME game to develop.
You rarely have to stop the progress of the game in order to just level up to fight some big bad (like Ruby in FF7) in ME. Sure, you gain levels from random encounters, but it's part of the exploration process in ME, rather than the goal itself. That's why I said the leveling process is paced much better.
A better shout is probably Square's own Life is Strange series given the publisher. Or for a full Triple A game, Metal Gear Solid V. Sort of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
In what way would you say MGS5 is episodic?
Agreed. I don't have any sympathy for them either. We're basically at a point where we can either wait another decade or get a game in portions every few years due to their own incompetence. Meanwhile, almost every other single video game developer on the planet manages to take on their own big projects in half that time, and knows how to actually smurfing communicate with their audience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
When you change the story by adding new information to it, it's a retcon dude. Thetrip to Nibelheim is dramatically changed in Crisis Core to fit Genesis into a part of the story he originally wasn't in. The entire nature of the mission was changed in CC with the reason to go was hunting down the remnants of Genesis and to see if he was still alive, whereas the original and BC state it was due to a malfunctioning reactor core creating monsters. Sephy doesn't come to the conclusion he's a monster by stumbling upon Hojo's experiments, it was a long conga trauma line of watching his two slightly less powerful buddies turning out to be lab experiments and Genesis point blank telling him he was no different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Yes Cloud doesn't remember any of this because A) Non of this bulltrout had existed in 97 when the plot was originally penned, but also B) Cloud wasn't there as he was outside which makes the fact he even knows even the original scene not really make any sense. We can assume Sephy just let Cloud know what he needed but there is no reason to omit Genesis from that now, and its not like Cloud didn't spend half of CC helping Zack fight off Genesis in the game to not remember him in some way considering he was leading global terror attacks against the Shin-Ra. Honestly there is no reason to omit Genesis now from the scene unless we're just going to pretend CC didn't happen, which I'm pretty cool with.
True, they are not all bad, but it really depends on the strength of the writer. Nojima is not a strong writer and the retcons of the Compilation are bad considering even fans of the game want the Remake to move far away from it. We'll have to wait and see what the Remake chooses to change and keep.Quote:
By the way: Retcons are not bad. FFVII-1 is a mess. It can only get better as long as the most important aspects are not totally rewritten.
Well when you remove grinding, and there is a trout ton more grinding in VII than ME, and you cut down on locations that have nothing to do with the plot in the grand scheme of things (pretty much every location on the first continent that isn't Midgard, Fort Condor, and Junon. Also Mt. Corel, Ancient Forest, Bone Village, Sleeping Forest, Coral Valley, Coral Valley Cave, and the Great Glacier) you'll find that VII's story isn't necessarily longer than ME it just has more places you have to fight through to get to that story content despite not really adding much to it from a broad perspective. There is honestly just a lot of superflous content in VII and the game is on rails for most of the plot. Even when you get the Airship, there isn't much to do except move the plot forward and go to the Gold Saucer and there second disc is actually shorter on story content than the first because it mostly entails backtracking and is the point in the game you can really start doing sidequests which chew up more time than you think. If the remake simply stuck to important locations and expanded them to have more content, then the VII Remake will probably be as long as XIII on average.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I can totally see Episode 1 (if we're being generous with game content) would do the Midgard section mostly unchanged storywise with a few new locations and redesigned dungeons. After leaving Midgard, the party hijacks a truck and journeys to Junon to find more information about Sephy. Here Cloud tells the party the whole story of the Nibelheim flashback. We get something to do with the Midgard Zolom which involves detouring to Fort Condor, and then the party arrives in Junon (minus the dolphin bit) and the Episode ends with the party reaching Costa Del Sol. I imagine the first two episodes may end with the Jenova fights which will cover the first disc.
Frankly the game could probably be made entirely and more faithfully had SE and fans not insist on AC style graphics.
But let's face it: This is the only thing that was going to happen because what the hell else is the point of remaking it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Also StarCraft II.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticA better shout is probably Square's own Life is Strange series given the publisher. Or for a full Triple A game, Metal Gear Solid V. Sort of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Ok, but my estimate of 50% more is much closer than your estimate of all three combined. I will give you diversity of content but the story and characters are all very self-contained in the ME trilogy which doesn't really argue that they are one big game. I cannot see a split of FFVII that would create such heterogeneous games.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I can see the development cost issue which is one argument for needing a higher price overall to compensate. RPGs have done this for years by often being $10-$20 more than other games at retail. The episodes would be another way to do this that could generate maybe 2 times the cost of a normal game but I can't see justification for much more than that for a single gaming experience.
Yeah, MGS5 was more like a paid demo followed by the actual full game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
I'm not trying to argue that the episodes is a bad idea, just that it's not intuitively a good or understandable idea. It does require giving SE some rope to accept and I totally understand people who won't give them that rope.
Because of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
e: Ground Zeroes wasn't a demo for TPP, paid or otherwise.
Ahh Starcraft II is the perfect example.Quote:
Originally Posted by AulaynaAlso StarCraft II.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticA better shout is probably Square's own Life is Strange series given the publisher. Or for a full Triple A game, Metal Gear Solid V. Sort of.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
I know it wasn't a demo. It's more like a prologue. Because of the difference in size between the two games, I don't think it's fair to call it an episodic game on a whole. Either of the two are independent of the other. There's nothing that happens in GZ that isn't almost entirely explained in TPP.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticBecause of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
e: Ground Zeroes wasn't a demo for TPP, paid or otherwise.
They were intended to be released as one as FFVII was, and was split due to development time, as presumably FFVII was. They were also released under the shared title of MGS V. Square will have paid attention to both pricing and sales when making this decision.
I also disagree that TPP explains GZ well but that's not really a discussion for this thread.
This is ridiculous, they pumped out FFVIII in a year. A year! And that is longer than FF7.
I don't care how big it is. You had years upon years. Finished game or NADA!
I rather agree with this. Part of the reason given for FFVII:Remake being episodic is that it's apparently "too hard" to release it as a complete game. As I understand it, that's similar to the reason they gave for making FFXIII a linear story with no explorable towns or cities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerith's Knight
If "too hard" is their entire rationale, then I'll personally see it as a cop-out. The original FFVII would have been a top-down, 2D Final Fantasy like its predecessors if they had been too scared to do something new just because it was hard.
If it's not actually possible to release FFVII:R as a complete title, then that's understandable. If it's more profitable to release it episode-by-episode, then I'd still understand the decision, albeit with a distinctly frowny face. If it's just a question of doing what's easiest and least scary, then they might as well team up with Konami to "honour" FFVII's 20 year legacy by releasing a commemorative pachinko machine instead.
Everything is "too hard" when they spend 5 years creating a brand new game engine that they decide to use for just one single game. Then do the exact same thing with the next engine they make.
If they include Genesis, then yeah, I'm def out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Episodes ? Okay. can maybe deal with that at the end of the day, after all the game will come out much quicker and there will be no KH 3/ FF XV deal.
But Genesis ?
Nope, nope, nope. Will never recover.
http://www.gamegents.com/2015/12/11/...make-episodic/
Article discussing whether the possibility of an Episodic release would be good or bad. What us 25 plus years olds have been waiting on for so long and whether this game will cater to us at all. A look into the possibilities with the battle system and how out of this world graphics are not the most important part of this remake.
Short answer: it doesn't.Quote:
Note: Reports keep telling us to “remember” that this “remake” is a “new” game. A “new” experience. WTF. So they’re going to expand the “scope, gameplay” of the game, but would have to make compromises towards the Final Fantasy 7’s original content. How does that make any sense?
Good article. I think it's going to come down to the execution at the end of the day. Let's see if Square learned anything.
I agree. My hope is less then it was a couple months ago however.
I just wanted a complete game on one or more disks. That was all. :colbert:
A breakdown on the "episodic" nature of Final Fantasy VII, and some expectations for what it might mean going forward. I think it's an excellent analysis and prediction of the multi-game format we should expect.
They're going to screw everything up