Crap in games that people bitch about that doesn't bother you.

To shake up the usual "games people hate you like" let's break this concept down further and just focus on the elements that probably made people dislike the game in the first place.

Amnesia!?! - It's cliche as all hell, but it's rarely done poorly, so even if I do roll my eyes when it's initially brought up, I can still roll with the whole game and not be bothered.

Trial and Error Gameplay - I blame this on my early roots of gaming being in the arcade scene so I'm usually not as discouraged by cheap deaths brought upon by needing to memorize the level layout, enemy placement, or boss patterns. I feel it's why my recent marathon of Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodborne was pretty positive overall. It's also why I don't really mind when a MegaTen game decides to cut me down to size cause I'm taking too many risks or not pre-planning the eventual run in with instant death magic that works.

Dungeon Crawler Design - Maybe it's because I can compartmentalize the segregation of story and gameplay, thus I feel a dungeon should be about gameplay first, story second or perhaps it's the fact I generally find "scenic" or "set-piece" style dungeon design to be usually shallow from a fun gameplay perspective; but I honestly don't have issues with dungeon crawler dungeon design. What I mean is, I don't mind when it's obvious the designer just copy/pasted the same wall and floor textures and built a maze for you to get loss in. So for instance, I don't mind sewer dungeons at all since they are notorious for this kind of design. I'm usually more annoyed when the dungeon looks pretty and like a real place, but it's obvious it's all background and you're stuck on a simple road just admiring the scenery.

Silent Protagonist - I've seen them done well, I've seen them done poorly, they don't really bother me.

Impossible Secrets - Perhaps it's because I tend to play through most of my games two or three times before I shelve it for good, and thus I'm just prepared to go through a game and know I'll miss something; but this never bothered me. I know people whine about these kind of things being simple bait for the $20 strategy guide the designers want you to buy along with it, but I feel this argument is still a bit shallow in our internet age where I could discover crap like the Zodiac Spear on Day 1 by going to GameFaqs. I think part of this also stems from the fact that I feel a game where it's possible to accomplish everything in one playthrough is ultimately boring in design.

Obvious Gameplay Mechanic Handicaps - No I'm not talking about the terrible out of nowhere stealth mission, I'm talking about things like a Stamina Gauge to limit your running or climbing, breakable gear, things like Vagrant Story's Risk System. If it makes sense and the trade-off works, I don't mind these types of handicaps. Again, I've seen some of these done well and some of them done poorly, but many games I really like actually incorporate these types of elements and I feel it makes the game richer for it. I feel it only fails when the mechanic seriously hampers the flow of the game even when you are playing well, and thus you can't really improve your situation.

Off the top of my head - turn-based combat, long cutscenes, complicated stories. Also, a lot of things you mentioned like silent protagonists and missables.

Boss fights that are easy gameplay-wise. As long as they're satisfying from a story and atmosphere perspective, I'm cool, barring a few exceptions.

A generic protagonist. Not necessarily a silent one, just one that doesn't stand out. As long as the rest of the cast is memorable, I'm fine with the main hero being a bit of a vanilla cipher.

Choices that don't drastically alter the storyline. Come at me, Telltale haters.

Winning a boss fight in gameplay only for the plot to say "nope."

"Evil" choices. Any choice in any game can be portrayed as stupid and evil. That's why you should have as many choices as possible.

Linearity. FFX shows linearity is just fine if done properly.

Linearity.

I'll take some fantastic level design, gorgeous settings, and a much more straightforward story over an empty open world game.

Unskippable cutscenes only really bother me when they're right before a challenging moment that warrants several tries. Otherwise I don't care. When I'm playing a game I'm playing it for the story as well.

Impossible secrets also aren't bad (they're secret after all) unless they're also missable. Like four random chests that you're not supposed to open without notice that cause an item to become a 0.01% drop. I'm sorry, but I'm going to be salty over something like that.

I've seen a lot of people not like DS adn Wii U touch screens. Were motion controls better? They stylus is actually responsive.

Melodrama.

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Originally Posted by KleinerKiller

Choices that don't drastically alter the storyline. Come at me, Telltale haters.

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Oh alright, I'll bite :p

I don't have a problem with having choices not matter in the overwhelming majority of games because it's technically unfeasible. However, when Telltale's whole shtick is that your choices matter and they go out of their way to tell you this at the start of each game it's a letdown that they don't.

I'm not a Telltale hater, though. I really love the stories that they craft and am fond of many of their excellent characters. But after having played through a few of them and realising there's actually very little going on under the hood the spell has been broken and I prefer to watch other people Let's Play them now. It's like when you find out wrestling isn't real when you're a kid. I can appreciate it for what it is, but the tension I once felt at having to make some gut wrenching calls has evaporated because I know there's nothing at stake.

Oh, actually, I take it back. If they don't come out with The Wolf Among Us Season 2 soon you can label me a Telltale hater.

FFX and FXIII linearity. Maybe in ffxiii its annoying a bit. But in ffx wether intentional or not. I think fits with the game very well but people hate the linearity and I can see why but honestly doesnt bother me at all.

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Originally Posted by Karifean

Melodrama.

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Does this come up a lot? I honestly thought I was in the minority for being particular about my drama. I think Wolf and/or Fynn sometimes join in when I give Japan crap for not knowing the difference between drama and melodrama. But they are writing aficionados like myself so we appreciate similar things in game writing

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Originally Posted by Vyk

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Originally Posted by Karifean

Melodrama.

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Does this come up a lot? I honestly thought I was in the minority for being particular about my drama. I think Wolf and/or Fynn sometimes join in when I give Japan crap for not knowing the difference between drama and melodrama. But they are writing aficionados like myself so we appreciate similar things in game writing

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I think the three of us bitch so loud and so often, it feels like it comes up a lot. ;)

The term melodrama is misused anyway. Melodrama is just fine as an art form and, indeed, most JRPGs are so over-the-top that melodrama is an appropriate term.

Why I don't care if Virgil in Xenosaga monologues on top of his robot while the aliens politely wait for him to stop. Heavy-handed? You betcha but the story is written that way so I don't care.

Linear games ( sorta ) if it's extremely linear like FF XIII then okay, but if it has some dungeons and towns etc, then what's the issue ? Really prefer linear games too, rather than the big ( usually) empty Open Worlds.

-Cute animu characters
-More story than gameplay
-Not difficult and challenging

A game being easy. I mean, sure, I want there to be some resistance - I don't want a cakewalk of a game - but at the same time I don't mind a game that is on the easier side of the scale.

Linear games are also fine. Not everything has to be open-world. I mean I do enjoy those games as well.

Oh, and a story one: wholesome good characters. I know some people find characters who are just simplistically 'good' and kind-hearted to be too simple, and would like characters with more shades of grey, but I'm happy enough if my character is just a good person. I'm fine playing as a pure Paragon Shepard or doing all the 'right' choices.

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Originally Posted by Formalhaut

Oh, and a story one: wholesome good characters. I know some people find characters who are just simplistically 'good' and kind-hearted to be too simple, and would like characters with more shades of grey, but I'm happy enough if my character is just a good person. I'm fine playing as a pure Paragon Shepard or doing all the 'right' choices.

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Agree wit dis also

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

The term melodrama is misused anyway. Melodrama is just fine as an art form and, indeed, most JRPGs are so over-the-top that melodrama is an appropriate term.

Why I don't care if Virgil in Xenosaga monologues on top of his robot while the aliens politely wait for him to stop. Heavy-handed? You betcha but the story is written that way so I don't care.

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Hamming it up once in a while is not a problem for me, I take issue when they do it every time they show up. Yeah game, I get it, your characters have issues, can we focus on solving them instead of just talking about them?

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Originally Posted by Pumpkin

-Cute animu characters
-More story than gameplay
-Not difficult and challenging

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+1 as this is now 100% of my gaming life

I like silent protagonists. I like silent teams like in Etrian Odyssey where I can make it up. But even with an mute, they're usually surrounded by a good cast. But I like making up personalities.

Grinding, I love grinding. Its nice and relaxing and its fun to try out new stuff. I can spend hours just grinding.

Also going to throw my hat into the linearity is okay ring. I never understood the hate. The plot is only going to advance in one location anyway.

Kind of related to the good character above, which I agree with, fun characters. I love energetic and hyper characters. That's like half my party right there. The nice one and the hyper one.

Oh right I guess it's not particularly surprising but... I don't mind a lack of gameplay in the slightest. I engage with whatever kind of narrative the creators are interested in weaving, regardless of how much player agency it involves.

I actually don't mind grinding too much.

If done well Grinding can be actually fun, though if done poorly it can be tedious (Mass Effect 2 I am looking at you with that smurfing scanner) as all hell. If the grinding isn't too tedious, I don't mind grinding it out, I find it quite therapeutic to do actually.

For me graphics are not that big of a deal. I grew up with bad graphics and as long as I knew what the thing was I was ok with them. Never understood how a bad Sprite could keep you from a game that has great gameplay, easy controls, and a great story.

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Originally Posted by FFNut

For me graphics are not that big of a deal. I grew up with bad graphics and as long as I knew what the thing was I was ok with them. Never understood how a bad Sprite could keep you from a game that has great gameplay, easy controls, and a great story.

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So much this
Not that I like ugly games. But I have absolutely no problem with dated games. If the game industry would stop trying to be bleeding edge photo-realistic all the time, then either their budget could go farther for story-telling or gameplay mechanics, or they could stop threatening to raise the price over $60USD and spend more wisely as a publisher

Use an old engine where all the quirks are a known quantity, and people already know how to bend the engine over backwards to get the most out of it. I never understood why people took issue with Bethesda updating Gamebryo and using it for Fallout 4. It's the engine they know the best, and it's the engine the modders know the best

But the real reason I came into this thread was to mention "controversy", since I have a thread about controversies, I don't want to sully it with what just happened in media. Like Far Cry 5 was announced, and it's the first Far Cry game I'm interested in, you get to fight a psychotic version of the KKK or something. Yet there's people mad that you're fighting Americans. Fighting religious people. Fighting gun lovers. I don't know how they think the sociopathic antagonists are meant to represent them, when they could more easily relate to the protagonists who were revealed, who either are, or could be also gun loving patriot christian Americans

I don't like controversy for the sake of controversy, or violence for the sake of violence. But I am perfectly fine with creating a mature plot that pushes the boundaries in a believable and compelling way. But apparently a lot of people who enjoy games are not interested in a new, unique, and interesting plot for an open world FPS game

But I guess as an RPG fan I've had plenty of experience fighting against religious zealots. And it doesn't bother me at all that it takes place in my home country. We do have a bunch of crazies. So it makes it more interesting to me as a "it could happen" scenario

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Originally Posted by Vyk

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Originally Posted by FFNut

For me graphics are not that big of a deal. I grew up with bad graphics and as long as I knew what the thing was I was ok with them. Never understood how a bad Sprite could keep you from a game that has great gameplay, easy controls, and a great story.

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So much this
Not that I like ugly games. But I have absolutely no problem with dated games. If the game industry would stop trying to be bleeding edge photo-realistic all the time, then either their budget could go farther for story-telling or gameplay mechanics, or they could stop threatening to raise the price over $60USD and spend more wisely as a publisher

Use an old engine where all the quirks are a known quantity, and people already know how to bend the engine over backwards to get the most out of it. I never understood why people took issue with Bethesda updating Gamebryo and using it for Fallout 4. It's the engine they know the best, and it's the engine the modders know the best

But the real reason I came into this thread was to mention "controversy", since I have a thread about controversies, I don't want to sully it with what just happened in media. Like Far Cry 5 was announced, and it's the first Far Cry game I'm interested in, you get to fight a psychotic version of the KKK or something. Yet there's people mad that you're fighting Americans. Fighting religious people. Fighting gun lovers. I don't know how they think the sociopathic antagonists are meant to represent them, when they could more easily relate to the protagonists who were revealed, who either are, or could be also gun loving patriot christian Americans

I don't like controversy for the sake of controversy, or violence for the sake of violence. But I am perfectly fine with creating a mature plot that pushes the boundaries in a believable and compelling way. But apparently a lot of people who enjoy games are not interested in a new, unique, and interesting plot for an open world FPS game

But I guess as an RPG fan I've had plenty of experience fighting against religious zealots. And it doesn't bother me at all that it takes place in my home country. We do have a bunch of crazies. So it makes it more interesting to me as a "it could happen" scenario

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I think the latest Ctrl+Alt+Del summed this one up perfectly:
http://cad-comic.com/wp-content/uplo...G_20170605.png

I'm sick of it. I'm not the only one. "Let's go kill those stupid xenophobic religious Republicans". I guess it's a good thing that people will have some way to get the violence out of their system without assaulting people on college campuses this time. But that doesn't mean I have to act supportive of this idea.

It's kind of scary that people are relating to the bad guys. The bad guys are American, and are likely religious. They are also a cult. They are also sociopathic. Let's not forget that the good guys fighting the resistance against them, and likely the main character are also American. The good guys are also religious, and could also be "republican". Why is nobody relating to the preacher? Or the guy building a plane in his garage? Or the bar owner? Those are the people we're supposed to relate to. If the KKK went psychotic, got armed, and took over my town, I wouldn't feel like I'm "killing my own kind" if I took them out. And I wouldn't turn up my nose if someone of a differing political ideal joined in the fight. I wouldn't see the KKK on any religious or political spectrum. And it's very easy to imagine happening, considering a town militia took over a town hall for the better part of a month with no urgent help from federal government to get them out. We basically just waited out the situation. If those were more of a religious cult, rather than misguided "stupid xenophobic religious republicans", then it could have easily been what Far Cry is aiming for

Though I do like that they pretty much have to change all of their lazier mechanics and try to make a real game out of all the extra stuff for once. Climbing 800 towers never sounded all that interesting to me. And killing people I identify as my brethren in America also doesn't interest me. But I don't identify the antagonists in this game as my brethren. I also don't identify the KKK as my brethren if it must be stated

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Originally Posted by Vyk

It's kind of scary that people are relating to the bad guys. The bad guys are American, and are likely religious. They are also a cult. They are also sociopathic. Let's not forget that the good guys fighting the resistance against them, and likely the main character are also American. The good guys are also religious, and could also be "republican". Why is nobody relating to the preacher? Or the guy building a plane in his garage? Or the bar owner? Those are the people we're supposed to relate to. If the KKK went psychotic, got armed, and took over my town, I wouldn't feel like I'm "killing my own kind" if I took them out. And I wouldn't turn up my nose if someone of a differing political ideal joined in the fight. I wouldn't see the KKK on any religious or political spectrum. And it's very easy to imagine happening, considering a town militia took over a town hall for the better part of a month with no urgent help from federal government to get them out. We basically just waited out the situation. If those were more of a religious cult, rather than misguided "stupid xenophobic religious republicans", then it could have easily been what Far Cry is aiming for

Though I do like that they pretty much have to change all of their lazier mechanics and try to make a real game out of all the extra stuff for once. Climbing 800 towers never sounded all that interesting to me. And killing people I identify as my brethren in America also doesn't interest me. But I don't identify the antagonists in this game as my brethren. I also don't identify the KKK as my brethren if it must be stated

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You misunderstand. It's not people that we're relating to. It's people that we're BEING related to. It's not "we view ourselves this way", it's "this is what the people making this game think of us". And we know this because it's the exact same lie that's been shoved down our throats since Trump first started his campaign (although, really, that's just a more blatant version of the lie that liberals have been screaming at those who disagree with them for the past thirty years). Heck, they might as well call the enemy faction "the deplorables".

I see Farcry 5 as a flop of a game. Must say I enjoyed Primal, but if they don't change the bad guys in it it will flop. I know a lot of people who felt very attacked by the way they decided to make the bad guys. It's like the Cathy Griffin holding up the Trumps head all bloody. It just wasn't a good idea. Though many in media speak out against Trump and his followers there is a large population of people who do support him still and it does alienate those people. Oddly enough Farcry's fan base really is a large chunk of the people who did vote Trump and continue to support him. Not saying all, but there is a large group. I can see why they are upset.

Not to be a dick or anything, but personally, I don't have any problem with the Templars being portrayed as antagonists, even if they're a representation of Catholics in geberal, despite being Catholic, simply because I know I'm not a part of an extremist branch. People who believe the Catholic Church to be evil might get validated by it, but people who don't probably won't think much of it except "yup, they did some bad stuff". So you can be a Trump supporter, or someone with traditional American Christian values, but this isn't a representation of you but the KKK, if I'm following Vyk? I know nothing about this game aside from what you're saying, but it does feel like the internet just needs to relax a bit.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

You misunderstand. It's not people that we're relating to. It's people that we're BEING related to. It's not "we view ourselves this way", it's "this is what the people making this game think of us". And we know this because it's the exact same lie that's been shoved down our throats since Trump first started his campaign (although, really, that's just a more blatant version of the lie that liberals have been screaming at those who disagree with them for the past thirty years). Heck, they might as well call the enemy faction "the deplorables".

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This makes much more sense, but it didn't occur to me because I seriously don't get that vibe. And if we talk about religious spectrums, I'm a progressive, which is more closely related to liberal/democrat. And I seriously don't feel like this is a game going after conservatives. Like I said, the three companions they've shown in trailers are very likely conservative patriotic religious gun lovers, and they're the good guys. But I'm admittedly only exposed to a portion of the gaming and political media so I'm not just going to brush it off and say it doesn't happen, I just don't see it happening

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Not to be a dick or anything, but personally, I don't have any problem with the Templars being portrayed as antagonists, even if they're a representation of Catholics in geberal, despite being Catholic, simply because I know I'm not a part of an extremist branch. People who believe the Catholic Church to be evil might get validated by it, but people who don't probably won't think much of it except "yup, they did some bad stuff". So you can be a Trump supporter, or someone with traditional American Christian values, but this isn't a representation of you but the KKK, if I'm following Vyk? I know nothing about this game aside from what you're saying, but it does feel like the internet just needs to relax a bit.

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Originally Posted by Vyk

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

You misunderstand. It's not people that we're relating to. It's people that we're BEING related to. It's not "we view ourselves this way", it's "this is what the people making this game think of us". And we know this because it's the exact same lie that's been shoved down our throats since Trump first started his campaign (although, really, that's just a more blatant version of the lie that liberals have been screaming at those who disagree with them for the past thirty years). Heck, they might as well call the enemy faction "the deplorables".

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This makes much more sense, but it didn't occur to me because I seriously don't get that vibe. And if we talk about religious spectrums, I'm a progressive, which is more closely related to liberal/democrat. And I seriously don't feel like this is a game going after conservatives. Like I said, the three companions they've shown in trailers are very likely conservative patriotic religious gun lovers, and they're the good guys. But I'm admittedly only exposed to a portion of the gaming and political media so I'm not just going to brush it off and say it doesn't happen, I just don't see it happening

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You don't feel like it because you haven't been called these names by every news outlet, celebrity, political opponent, and forum user for the past year.

This has almost come into a spot better suited for the accadamia thread, but I know how Sky is feeling. I too have felt the attacks from the media due to simply disagreeing with someone on a topic. My Twitter account I had for 9 years was suspended and locked out. I was attacked by one of Justin Trudeau's top advisers husband. All because I said I don't think a carbon tax will fix the environment. Though I think if that's how the programmers wish to show the bad guys they have the right to under freedom of speech, there is a consequence for doing it where people may not buy the game as they may feel shunned.

y'all
farcry series has been ridiculous the entire time
constantly murdering islanders and POC's in FC3 essentially
also they were all portrayed as druggies and 'savage'

it's the FPS equivalent of a south park episode where they'll set it anywhere and target anyone

im not defending it but if you want nuanced representation of any group perhaps farcry isn't the series to flock to

also

cult != religious != a person of faith
three quite distinct value sets imo

anyway
-i kind of like it when enemies in RPGs are the same model but color switched for element changes

I can imagine it's different for everyone, but for me it'd be like if someone made a game where a Neo-Nazi uprising took place in Germany, and you have to fight as the resistance. I'm not going to look at the game and be like "Damn Germans, Nazis, all of 'em." I'm gonna like "Alright, let's help the good guy Germans fight against the bad guy Germans".

I know the media and this forum have been fairly vocal about distaste of conservative and fundamental values, but I have yet to see someone want to play this game to kill republicans or conservatives. So while the argument could be made I suppose if someone wanted to, I think people may also be projecting onto this a little

Of course, as you said, you aren't a member of these groups, so you haven't been living as the subject of these constant attacks. To you, it's just part of life. Roses are red, the sky is blue, members of flyover states are bible clutching, xenophobic hate freaks who deserve to be murdered en masse.

They have made the caricature of the Trump supporter the enemy in this game. If they expect that to endear them to people who are sick of being portrayed as that stereotype, they're being rather stupid.

Of course, Ubisoft is a French company, so it's not like they bother to understand these points. They recently overcame their violent xenophobes who don't deserve to live. They certainly aren't going to bother to try to understand anyone else's.

What's this sweeping generalization of another country?

You know far cry is developed in Montreal right?

And if we're going to discuss a game with an obviously fictionalized and exaggerated group of violent religious extremists as enemies we probably shouldn't try and pretend that violent religious extremism doesn't exist in the US.

I think people are jumping to conclusions with Far Cry 5 given the limited amount of information we have about it. For the record, my hot take on it when I saw it wasn't "Oh here comes Trump supporter simulator!" but "Oh hey it's the Waco Siege, Jonestown, etc." I know the difference between a conservative and a doomsday cultist, and the game's marketing material so far has focused on the latter.

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Originally Posted by FFNut

Though I think if that's how the programmers wish to show the bad guys they have the right to under freedom of speech, there is a consequence for doing it where people may not buy the game as they may feel shunned.

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This is exactly my thoughts on it. If Far Cry 5 does go on to depict conservatives or people living in the country in a negative light then Ubisoft have the right to make that game, just as it's fine for something like GTA San Andreas to depict the negative stereotype of black gang culture. With that said, then absolutely people like Skyblade and FFNut have the right to be unhappy with it misrepresenting them and the way of life, especially given the current political climate.

Consumers should vote with their wallets. Personally speaking, I'm not interested in a redneck Christian cultist villain playing to the same old tropes because it's lazy and overdone in games. We just had Outlast 2 and Resident Evil 7, so I've had my fill for 2017 thank you!

I mean, to be perfectly fair, I wouldn't have bought the game anyway. I picked up Blood Dragon to give the series a try, and what I liked most about it was the theme, story, and cheesiness (and, while the "make everything glowing red" was annoying, it's still better than setting it in a jungle. At least if this one is in Montana, it won't have the jungle setting). Basically, everything that made it Blood Dragon, instead of the mainline series. I didn't particularly enjoy the mechanics and I might have finished it, but I definitely didn't care enough to 100% it (which is rare for me in sandbox games), and likely wouldn't buy another game in the series.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

What's this sweeping generalization of another country?

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The same thing that's about the sweeping generalizations of Trump voters/supporters?

Yes, because a video game company's decision of choosing a specific group for their antagonist is a valid reason to belittle every foreign culture that isn't you, belittling the rest of the world for not being as fortunate to have been born as one of you.

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Yes, because a video game company's decision of choosing a specific group for their antagonist is a valid reason to belittle every foreign culture that isn't you, belittling the rest of the world for not being as fortunate to have been born as one of you.

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If this was just about the video game company, this would have been a minor kerfuffle that not many people care about. It isn't. It's about the statements made by every major press outlet, celebrity, political figure, and most forum posters from Europe (and America) for the past two years.

The sweeping generalizations and mischaracterizations aren't very nice, are they? So why is it hard to understand that we don't like them any more than you do?

I've seen where discussions like this have gone over the past 12 months and it's never anywhere good. This thread is being taken wildly off topic from its original purpose and I think we should leave this discussion here. Future posts on this will be deleted without further warning. Thank you!

edit: Well gosh darn it Psy, right before I posted

Ummm on the original topic:


Bitching about non gameplay issues in general kinda bothers me. Im pretty easygoing and far ranging in my tastes so I dont tend to go picky about what I like.

Gameplay trumps ALMOST everything. I can only think of like 1 game off the top of my head out of like 600 that the plot was so offensively bad the gameplay couldnt save it.


There is one particular complaint that just burns my ass though. People complaining that a game has too much story in it. Or that story doesnt belong in games.

I have always felt that people bitch too much in general on "Silver Surfer" for the NES, and I am sure that this is just because AVGN did that in one of his older videos about that game.
"Silver Surfer" is just a somewhat flawed fairly ordinary space shooter, but people act as if it is "the worst game 3V4R for any console".
No, seriously, if people were introduced to that game without knowing about the AVGN video they would possibly find it a bit annoying and brutally difficult, but they would definitely not consider it "one of the worst games in history".
There are MUCH worse games out there, like pretty much all the games on the "Action 52" collection for example, and if you were to put "Silver Surfer" in that collection then people would think that that game was amazingly good compared to everything else there.
Think about that for a moment - you are trying out the games on that collection, and then all of a sudden you pick "Silver Surfer" and start playing that - it would feel very out of place and unexpected, because it really is much more well-designed than any of the junk on that collection, even with its flaws taken into account.

Also, criticising the game for how it's got "enemies all over the place" is pointless, because almost all games in the space shooter genre are like that.
If you want to see something REALLY crazy for that console then take a look at "Summer Carnival '92: Recca" for the Famicom - even the very beginning of that game (and yes, I literally mean the absolute beginning) is more intense than most parts from "Silver Surfer", and it gets worse and worse from there until you will have to resort to pure memorisation a lot of the time.
And guess what?
People still consider that game to be amazing and one of the best space shooters on that console, so the "enemies everywhere!" argument is clearly not a significant issue.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Trial and Error Gameplay - I blame this on my early roots of gaming being in the arcade scene so I'm usually not as discouraged by cheap deaths brought upon by needing to memorize the level layout, enemy placement, or boss patterns. I feel it's why my recent marathon of Demon's Souls, Dark Souls and Bloodborne was pretty positive overall. It's also why I don't really mind when a MegaTen game decides to cut me down to size cause I'm taking too many risks or not pre-planning the eventual run in with instant death magic that works.

Silent Protagonist - I've seen them done well, I've seen them done poorly, they don't really bother me.

Obvious Gameplay Mechanic Handicaps - No I'm not talking about the terrible out of nowhere stealth mission, I'm talking about things like a Stamina Gauge to limit your running or climbing, breakable gear, things like Vagrant Story's Risk System. If it makes sense and the trade-off works, I don't mind these types of handicaps. Again, I've seen some of these done well and some of them done poorly, but many games I really like actually incorporate these types of elements and I feel it makes the game richer for it. I feel it only fails when the mechanic seriously hampers the flow of the game even when you are playing well, and thus you can't really improve your situation.

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These three I relate to INTENSELY. Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment are 2 games I would put in my top 5 all-time favorites. I'm going to go off of this and throw in Limited Number of Lives/Game Overs, because while, yes, those are holdovers from the old days of arcades, they're usually also an incentive to play better so that you may earn more lives.

Rudy Roughknight from Wild ARMS is one of my favorite characters and he says all of maybe two lines. Sometimes it's more fun to think about what the character is saying. My least favorite thing about the Persona anime adaptations is I liked my generic main character more when I imprinted some personality onto him.

Weapon Durability in Breath of the Wild is brilliant; it's a survival game; resource management should extend to combat.

"Crap in games that people bitch about that doesn't bother you."

Basically everything. :shobon:

The one I see bitched about the most lately is long cutscenes/narrative heavy games. People will say call them ""games"" and "movies" etc. I prefer narrative driven games personally but it seems like there's a huge line of people just waiting to crap on them these days.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rez09

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Okay I withdraw my previous post, let's change it to almost everything.

Tackling controversial political topics and actually holding ideological themes.

The Wutai section in FFVII. I don't understand why people don't enjoy it. I get it can be a bit annoying without materia but that just gives it a fresh challenge. Plus, the five boss challenge in the pagoda is great :)

Same with the Cosmo Canyon section. I loved everything about that. You are just an idiot if you don't like it.

It's not that it's a challenge, because it really wasn't the last time I played it. It just feels dumb and padded and overall just isn't that good if you don't care about Yuffie

Well not being able to use any materia would be a challenge for most, I feel. Unless you didn't use any materia ever.

I felt that the game at this section was just balanced to a party that doesn't have any materia. As, you know, it probably should be.