Who do you think greatly improved as a character from the original to the Remake?
For myself it's Aerith and I actually really like how cheeky and fun she is. That gleeful steel chair shot that she delivered right to that goon's skull was pure primetime.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVmGcjvXYAIrjpu.png
Aerith and Barret. I miss Aerith's fighting style though.
People keep saying that about Aerith, but I’ve honestly felt she was that cheeky even in the original. It’s the Compilation that flanderized her into Jesus but a girl.
I also think Aerith didn't change much, but I really like how she is in the remake. In Crisis Core, she was younger, and in Advent Children, she was in the Lifestream. Of course she's not like in the in the og and the remake. I like how sad she always looks behind her huge smile to be honest. It makes her feel real. I've always interpreted her as such, but now, we see it. I also really love her new fighting style since she feels like a mage.
That being said, I think the character who improved the most is Cloud, not because he necessarily improved, but I really like how they pictured his confusion and how he's not well. I love how awkward he is, too. It's something that, without good graphic and without voice, was harder to see. They put the emphasis on the fact that he's trying to be cool but not always succeed and it's really fun to see :P
Yeah, I didn't mean to imply she'd become something different, just that I like how they portrayed that aspect of her personality in the Remake whereas before I could take it or leave it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
My vote goes to Barret. I think Aerith is actually pretty similar to the way she is in the original. Just some more lines to portray that a bit more. Barret is also pretty similar but they really develop him a lot more.
NPCs got more attention than in the OG.
If they didn't turn Jessie into an over the top sex bot I would go with her but since Jessie was developed the way she was I will go with Aerith also.
I mean it's obviously Don C with those belly physics.
Johnny because I literally didn't even realise he was an OG character
Yeah, that's why she's improved because she's gone back to herself, her original character. Well almost, she's still "scared of the sky", like how she was in Crisis Core.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Ooof. Poor Johnny !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarvio
i love that jesse was incredibly horny on main
So my serious answer to this question is Aerith as well. Her personality is so much more in-tone with the OG. She's a sassmeister, she decks a goon with a steel chair, and she's always praising Tifa, and she hyperventilates with excitement about seeing Fem-Cloud. Total queen.
This is a pretty tough one but I'd probably say Aerith as well.
I wasn't very fond of her in the original because I liked Tifa more. I feel this time around if things go the way expected than it would have more of an impact on me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gashtacular
Lol, you just wanted to see a video game sex scene. Her voracious sexuality would have been fine if they had limited it to perhaps a single scene or two when the plot called for it. But not throughout her entire time in the game even while she was in the middle of a bombing mission.
There aren't a lot stories that can succeed at making a character highly flirtatious and yet still have more to their character. Jessie isn't a sex bot. She just finds Cloud attractive and, unlike some OTHER girls,she has the confidence to pursue him openly. Even when Cloud calls her desperate, she just says she'll cool off a bit in her chase but she won't give up. (SPOILER)Some people expressed issues with the fact her bomb didn't do much damage and that Shinra had to clean up. But I just think it shows that she is a competent bomb expert. In the OG Jessie's surprise at the size of the explosion pointed to her being less skillful. Sure, Avalanche was a ragtag group, but why would Barret put Jessie in charge of the bomb if she didn't know what she was doing? I think that's why even Barret was shook by the huge explosion when he and Cloud were on the elevator.
For Biggs,the main reason I liked him in R is because he looks like Charlie Sheen from Platoon. Aside from that, I didn't dig him all that much and I didn't approve of the choice of voice actor. To me I couldn't reconcile that voice with his character.
Marlenefelt more real here too. In Advent Children, she was more of a plot device and they tried too hard to make her "cute". Here, there's a curiousness to her voice that sounds genuine when sge's interacting with Barret or Aerith.
Johnny'spretty cool here. He gets significantly more attention than he should in the Midgar section. But his outfit isn't the one I was expecting. In OG, in Johnny's closet is a leather jacket with a flaming skull. I always figured Johnny was wearing that throughout the game, you just can't tell 'cause the low graphics.
Elmyrais improved, though in a way that makes me irritated to engage with her. In OG sge was stereotypical overprotective mother. But here, she carries a lot of confusion as to how best keep her daughter safe, going so far as to convince herself that it would be best to leave Aerith with Shinra rather than try to get her back. Yes. That irritates me.
Reno's attitude was a satisfying middle ground between OG and Advent Children. Still cocky, still kinda lazy, still awake.
Speaking of Turks, we're introduced to Rude a lot sooner than in OG. And even in the scant screentime he is alotted, we still get a deeper look into his personality. I guess that's the purpose of these cutscenes during battle.
I appreciated the extra screentime we got for Scotch and Kotch, but I DESPISE that they removed the Scotch miniboss fight. I was actually hoping we would be able to fight Scotch AND Kotch. At least they duped the scene of Kotch being tied up. That was neat.
Jules aka Big Bro, is slightly less "cute" though clearly still into that. He's still a disciplinarian but minus the violence which was a little bit of an overreaction in OG (breaking a dude's arm for throwing a tantrum at losing to Cloud).
Gotta say I hated the Party Never Stops Quest. The old man in the original had a bit of sympathetic air about him. The old man in Remake was just an idiot. Total downgrade.
Tseng:in OG, our first encounter with the man made him come off like a stereotypical villain laughing maniacally. Bastard even backhands Aerith right in front of the group. (Though that's not nearly as bad as Barret firing repeatedly on the chopper when he can clearly see a helpless flower girl curled up on the platform beside Tseng... damn Barret, cool off!) Tseng's attitude toward work and Aerith respectively are both given a much needed overhaul here.
I didn't approve of the characterization of Domino. It may have been accurate to his character in OG, but it just rubbed me the wrong way. Then again, that may have been the point.
Lastly, Shinra and Rufus. Shinra's outlook may be sterotyoical of a villain, but it feels like it comes from a recognizable origin, like if you could just take away everything that makes him President and just make him another man on the street, he'd be the type of hard-working soul that could build himself up from nothing. Then there's Rufus. No speches this time, but he definitely has more stage-presence to his aura. Overall, I found the battle with him to be pretty entertaining.
I have to say, I really like what they did with Cloud. I liked that he was true to his OG self and not as much like his newer appearances. Also, you got some nice characterization in honeybee inn that was kind of a joy.
As for most improved in general, Wedge is my favorite so far. Loved his interactions with cats
Pretty much every character from the original improved, and most of them improved quite substantially.
My top award has to go to Barret though, he's such a GOOD PERSON and WONDERFUL DAD and he's so lovely to his very core that he has to wear sunglasses to stop his eyes betraying his gentleness while he's trying to intimidate his enemies.
But does he always carry a spare, like Rude?
What’s wrong with Jessie being sex-positive?
no, i don't. what? lmao. i'm with fynn on this one. just because i have no problem with jesse being sex positive doesn't mean i want to see her getting railed. i suspect you might be projecting here? wtf is wrong with you :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Gashtacular
Lol, you just wanted to see a video game sex scene.
incredibly telling that as soon as a female character that is confidently flirtacious comes along it is immediately assumed that she exists for gamers to crank their phat veiny hogs to. terrible.
Jessie wasn't sexual. Was she extremely flirty? Definitely. But she wasn't crass or crude about it, and didn't fall into well trodden tropes of wearing revealing clothing or being overly physical or handsy.
She also was not a one-note character, with her guilt over the bomb, her shattered dreams of becoming an actress and her desire to help and look after people - and, yes, her flirtiness - all playing a part of her Remake characterisation.
Pretty much all the characters were improved IMO, and I liked the new ones as well.
But if I had to pick the biggest improvement, it'd be either Barret or Jessie. Obviously Jessie's character profits from being around much longer than in the original, but she's also just more prominent in the scenes she's in.
Barret felt a lot more like an actual person than in the original, also a lot of credit to both his English and Japanese voice actors, they nailed it.
Jessie: *is confident in expressing her attraction and flirts openly*
Nerds on the internet:
https://thumbs.gfycat.com/Glistening...restricted.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
There is a higher bar now for what is considered quality storytelling in video games. Games deserve to be called out for putting things in their games that hurt the overall narrative of the story. Again through a portion of this game the characters felt like they would have fit in better with a group of spring breakers than an underground terrorist group who was going on bombing missions. The game deserves to be called out for not making their characters fit the story any better than that.
its pretty clearly the latter tbh
I fail to see how it’s a detriment to the story when she goes from a fairly one-dimensional character with an obvious attraction to Cloud to a more realized, multi-dimensional character with an attraction to Cloud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
You are trying to compare it to a game that was released in 1997 at a time when video game stories pretty much only existed in order to connect boss fights. FF7R was released in 2020 so the remake should be compared to other games out there that have narratives that are basically cinematic movies and are being turned into movies and tv shows.
If you strictly wanted FF7R to be solely compared to the game that was released in 1997 than it should have been made fifteen years ago.
Even without using the comparison, Jessie's characterization is HUMAN, and that's all it needs be.
Yeah, again, I don’t see how her attraction makes her incompatible with modern storytelling sensibilities. I guess it’d be different if all female characters in the game were extra horny for Cloud. Unless I’m missing something. Please tell me what it is, I’d rather be conscious of these things going forward.
There wasn't anything wrong with her being horny or her having a strong attraction to Cloud. However they didn't need to make her act like she wanted to drop everything and bone Cloud throughout her entire time in the game. They should have just shown her attraction to Cloud within a particular scene or two and then have her act normally and stay on task throughout the missions she went on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
Just think of it this way. Say for instance Riley went on the mission with Joel and Ellie as well in Last of Us. Do you think Ellie and Riley would have been talking about how much they wanted to bone each other while they were trying to escape Clickers and avoid people shooting at them?
Speaking as someone who's at least seen the first reactor mission in full, even in heavily dangerous situations and almost dying *twice* as the place collapses around her, she never misses a beat to yell out stuff like "my hero", basically lines that no real person would ever say in a situation like that, to the point where the other members of AVALANCHE are openly annoyed with her and tell her to cut it out and focus. I'd say it's funny, but it is kinda a "Hollywood girl" cliché nonetheless to have everything else take second seat to swooning over the main guy. And while it is an adaptation of original scenes, she *is* also conveniently the only member of the group to "need help" from the main guy not once, but twice, the guys all make it out themselves no problem. Can see how that could sit wrong with 'modern sensibilities', or at least how people might be sick of these 'sexist' clichés.
I think it's in part the English localization specifically though. From what I could tell at least, the French dub had the characters speaking a lot more organically and human. While Jessie is still decently flirty, stuff like the corny "my hero" line is something they straight up just added in the English dub.
Yeah Jessie acting that way would have been completely fine if this game was made say in the '00-'10 time period. But not as a game made in 2020. I'm not one of those who has any social agendas at all either. I just want decent stories and having characters like that just isn't up to the standards of modern times. If you want to see girls act like that that is what those low budget spring break swimsuit movies are for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karifean
And if it was mainly an English dub problem it makes me wonder if these people who are dubbing games for English speaking audiences are even paying attention to the types of games American and European companies are making these days. Heck this is a trailer we got in the past few months about an upcoming game from one of the more popular American based companies right now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-BUJoqZRsw
It makes the characters in FF7R look pretty silly.
I mean that just sounds like regular FFVII campiness. People would riot if they didn’t have that. The Honeybee Inn stuff got even vampire so I don’t see how one is a problem and one isn’t. That’s just the tone in the game and I don’t see how that makes it antiquated. Stuff doesn’t all have to be dark and serious
Tonal differences in games are a thing, you don't see Joel cross-dressing to get close to a bandit leader in Last of Us either.
Not like Naughty Dog has another massive franchise, Uncharted, in which both guys and girls flirt and crack jokes while taking on armies of armed pirates, private militaries and monsters, eh? :p
To a point that is true. But Uncharted is still a vastly more serious game than Final Fantasy is. THe problem with the remake is they basically made a 1997 style game in 2020. Doing something like that is going to receive a lot of criticism. Perhaps in the future remaking old games isn't the best thing to do. I have a feeling that Square realizes the Final Fantasy IP is starting to become a little dated and that is why they aren't as quick to make new Final Fantasy stories any longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarZidane
If anything, I feel the campiness of FFVII is sonething modern mainstream gaming is seriously lacking and I hope it’ll usher in a new era of zaniness. Cultural shifts happen and games being super serious all the time is already stale
With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
yea its almost so on-the-nose as to be a send up of the cliche, or something!Quote:
Originally Posted by Karifean
:shrug:
On the contrary, FFVIIR shows that you can take a 'zany' game telling a 20 old year story and shows that it can still work. The characters in FFVII are, in part, caricatures. They have very clearly defining personality traits that are exaggerated to fit the tone. I don't think a girl who flirts while running away from a reactor explosion is particularly out of place in a city built 300 metres in the sky by an electric power company who has their own army of enhanced super soldiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
And it works. Plenty of people are finding that this is just... better... than a lot of what is coming out these days.
I'm glad to have FFVII demonstrate that even in the year 2020 it's possible to have a really well done, well polished, non-sad dad story in a mainstream video game.
It will still have its audience. But no this will not start a trend to these types of games becoming as popular as they once were again. The gaming audience is older now than it used to be and most of those people in their 30's and 40's that are still playing games are going to want more realistic type of characters that they can relate to. And the younger people are now going to look at a character like Ellie and how much more badass she is than any character from the likes of FF7. Bad ass characters tend to be what people like these days. Not girls with hot mini skirts who go into sexualized poses during the game (that kind of thing was popular twenty years ago).Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxOn the contrary, FFVIIR shows that you can take a 'zany' game telling a 20 old year story and shows that it can still work. The characters in FFVII are, in part, caricatures. They have very clearly defining personality traits that are exaggerated to fit the tone. I don't think a girl who flirts while running away from a reactor explosion is particularly out of place in a city built 300 metres in the sky by an electric power company who has their own army of enhanced super soldiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123With narrative storytelling in games being taken more seriously than ever now and with movies and tv shows looking towards video games for ideas of what to make more than they ever have before I think they are a long ways away from a shift back to the era where games were simply meant to be games and the seriousness of the story didn't matter all that much. And a game where they have to use almost quarter century old characters isn't going to be the game to start the shift back to video game zaniness. If anything it is only going to remind people how much gaming has progressed since 1997.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fynn
And it works. Plenty of people are finding that this is just... better... than a lot of what is coming out these days.
I'm glad to have FFVII demonstrate that even in the year 2020 it's possible to have a really well done, well polished, non-sad dad story in a mainstream video game.
1st: Jessie herself says she will basically lose her mind in panic if she doesn't talk. Just because the guy she finds attractive and is currently right up behind her is the dominating subject at the forefront of her thoughts, doesn't detract from her character or the situation's sense of realism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Karifean
2nd: to suggest that no real person would behave in such a way in a crisis or other life-threatening situation is dismissive of all of the real people who have used humor and/or excessive dialogue to cope with dire situations. My cousin is one of those girls who won't stop talking in a desperate situation that "you would think" would require calm and focus.
As for needing to be rescued, it's just one of the scenes that wanted to be replicated from the original. It doesn't speak to anything deeper.
If you didn't manage to come away with the conclusion that 'Tifa is a badass' then I have to wonder if we were playing the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123
Tifa is not a bad ass. Badass girls these days aren't dressed in miniskirts and placed in positions in order to show off their chests.Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxIf you didn't manage to come away with the conclusion that 'Tifa is a badass' then I have to wonder if we were playing the same game.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony123
'Badass girls these days' are about what they do, not what they wear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox
Not when you are making fictionalized video game characters. Video game characters are definitely judged based on what the developers choose to dress them in. NaughtyDog made a point of not sexualizing Ellie at all with the outfit they gave her.
Tifa kicks ass in fights. Ergo she's a badass. QED.
Ok I get it. Modern mature gamers expect a different shade of sexism.
Honestly though, there’s a lot of talk about Naughty Dog stuff here, ignoring the fact that the Witcher 3, one of the most successful and unanimously praised (yes, for its story and characters too) games of the past decade, may have its sad sad game elements, but for the most part is very colorful, has plenty of tonal shifts between serious and balls to the wall zany (Geralt getting drunk with his buddies and dressing up in his girlfriend’s dresses may not quite reach Honeybee Inn levels of wacky but it’s still in the same category), and the women can somehow be badass and wear low-cut dresses and flirt with the main character in dangerous situations all at once. And yet no one is decrying its story as immature or setting back game storytelling a few decades.
Don Corneo, because they manage to really drive home that despite his weirdness and campiness, he's actually an evil, disgusting person who is running a trafficking and rape outfit. Which he always was, but in the original it always felt like he was pure comic relief; here he's comic relief, but it's shaded with his actual depravity.
Aerith like others have said, she's not changed much but the time they give to expanding her, her playfulness, her willingness and determination to get things done even if they're dangerous, they're all just superb.
Barret goes from great to best boy, both because of his expanded screentime and because his VA earns every cent.
And Jessie was always Best Girl but now she's just... I don't have smilies to encapsulate how much I love Best Girl.
I also think Andrea was super improved. He went all the way from 'not existing' to 'being really awesome'. Actually, Andrea and Madam M are both equally good.
Actually now I type that out I think Madam M was actually slightly better. We got to see her sensual side, her business-woman side, and her furious-at-that-bastard side, as well as getting a subtle glimpse into her private life. So yeah the 4 new Wall Marketers - liked all of them Madam M is best. But damn Andrea is a sexy man.
Barret doing the victory fanfare is everything! :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Adequate
Barret's VA is also a super nice bloke so added bonus points for that.
barrett is a better prompto than prompto
Final Fantasy Wild Arms to feature Barret, Vincent, Biggs, Jessie, Prompto, Yuna (X-2) and Sazh.
Just gonna add small thoughts to as many characters as I can think of (that were in the OG)
Cloud - About the same tbh. But it works. However, dialogue is infinitely better, but translation issues were to blame for that back in the day.
Tifa - About the same again. But with added doubts about AVALANCHE's cause.
Barret - Similar, but even more improved. Seems a bit more sympathetic and respectful. He's still a hot-head, but he seems more mature than in the OG, though I love both.
Aerith - Her name is the biggest change for me lol, as Aeris is ingrained into my head (yes I know it was a translation error originally). Other than that, she's pretty consistent with her OG counterpart if you ask me.
Red XIII - Similar personality as before. I think it's still early days to tell for him yet, but I like him, and his voice actor is much better than the AC voice actor IMO.
Sephiroth - The genral vibe of him is fine. But it's random that he's even there. I'm not sure if this one's even an improvement tbh.
Biggs - At first, I saw him as a cross between Luzzu (FFX) and Balthier (FFXII). This was before I learned that it is Balthier's voice actor. Then, people started saying Charlie Sheen, and now that is all I can see lol. Either way, an infinitely improved character with a very powerful death scene (but which is ruined because of the ending).
Jessie - Another massively improved character for obvious reasons, but I'm not sure about her apparent romance with Cloud, it just seemed forced and silly. It is later implied that this is more to do with her taking on an "acting" role. But still, I think they went overboard with it. Still though, a much improved version of Jessie, and a powerful death scene.
Wedge - Goes without saying but again much improved as much more development.
President Shinra - This one's a big improvement as he didn't have much development in the original. In this version he seems way more evil, arrogant, and other than that, a generic mustache-twirling evil guy. On his own nothing spectacular, but a definite improvement over the original.
Hojo - Hojo is great full stop, and in this version that is enhanced even further with his voice actor and his overall creepiness. They pulled it off well, and he even steals Scarlett's "something stinks" line.
Heidegger - I don't know about this one. He just doesn't seem the same to me. He seems more serious and less comical than the original. I suppose it works, but in a different way.
Scarlett - Actually not enough air time IMO. However, her scene with the shinra worker being her leg rest was great and shows Scarlett's character for what it is. A good version, but needs more airtime.
Palmer - Palmer is Palmer. More of a comedy character, but even better here than the OG. Palmer in the honeybee in was hilarious, was that in the original? Can't remember.
Reeve - Not much airtime, but early days with him anyway. I thought he was portrayed well enough, but I prefer his DOC voice actor.
Rufus - Too early to tell for this one IMO.
Reno - Much improved. Shows that he has a conscience, but at the same time he's still carefree and still a bit of a dick.
Rude - Similar to the original, but obviously improved with the addition of voice acting and throwing your characters at other characters.
Tseng - This one was just boring if I'm honest. It's still early days, but I found him very generic.
Don Corneo - A crazy, eccentric character as it is, but the revamped look and voice acting is the icing on the cake. You can really tell how slimy and pathetic he is. One of my favourites for sure.
Johnny - Like I said earlier in the thread, I had no idea who he even was in the original. I vaguely know who he is now from looking back, but honestly he was just a random NPC as far as I was concerned. But here, he is a fully fleshed out character, and a funny and entertaining one too.
Mayor Domino - One of the best improvements for sure. In the original he was just 'there'. Now he has more of a role which is great, and a great voice actor, good comedy with the robots, yep one of the biggest improvements.
Hart - Insignificant in the original again. Not much more significant here, but at least he has a distinguished look and a voice actor.
Zack - I don't like his new voice. I also don't like the whole surviving/dimension thing. I'm only ok with seeing Zack in flashbacks, but even so, his voice seemed off to me? Probably gets the least improved award lol.
Elmyra - Same as original for me really. Voice actor suited well.
Marlene - Same as above, but at least she gets more interaction with Barret.
Cloud's Mum - Very brief, so can't really say much other than at least she has a voice actor now.
Kotch and Scotch - Their roles are kind of different, they are no longer in the mansion, but instead in the new Colosseum. However, I like that they kept them as Kotch and Scotch rather than brand new characters. Good for comedy.
Is that everyone? (Excluding brand new characters)
You also have people like the materia shop owner in wall market, and the drunk dress maker, but we could go on forever by that logic.
Yeah, I mentioned earlier in the thread, I hate what they did with the Dressmaker. He's an idiot.
I feel like the materia shop owner in Wall Market was actually LESS developed, but he's an extremely minor character either way and could just as well have been omitted, so it's not a big deal.
For party members, I'll mirror what people have said about Aerith really standing out. Even in battle, having the staff flick magic instead of just being a low damage weapon was really nice.
I also enjoyed the extra time we were able to spend with everyone in Avalanche.
Endgame SpoilersNow that we have at least Biggs and Wedge (???) alive, I wonder if they're going to play a special role in future games. I could see them showing up in random towns, either being special item suppliers or helping with certain missions. Contacting them in some capacity can also be great story content for Barret since he kind of takes a back seat after leaving Midgar in the original.
Jessie for me. Yeah she's still pretty one-note (her entire personality is wanting to get in Cloud's pants) but I liked her expanded backstory. Everyone else is mostly the same, except for Sephiroth who has regressed even further, which I didn't think was possible.
As has been pointed out, throwing herself at Cloud may just be a false persona. If he actually acted genuinely interested in her,she'd probably just shrug him off. Same as if she thought he might actually go all the way with her. In this regard, she's more of a tease than a slut.
It's gotta be either Cloud or Barret. Not to say they're the best characters, but just to say that their various other incarnations are significantly worse.
I guess maybe Barret is most improved. He actually seems like a real person in this, who just puts on the slightly silly 'tough guy' persona as a cover, whereas in previous incarnations, that tough guy persona felt like it was supposed to be his full personality. Like he's a complete cartoon character.
I'd say Barret easily. I've gained a soft spot for the bloke over the years, but the remake certainly made him the most personable of the cast. He's much more multi-faceted in this version being both a better leader, being easy going enough to drop jokes on occasion, and his interactions with Marlene are great as well.
Part of me wants to also say Aerith, but in her case I feel it's less of being improved and more of finally playing something that remembers how she really was, as opposed to every other media we've seen her in where she either feels out of character or is a really watered down experience. I'm just happy they didn't go with her "Woe is me, I'm just a poor girl who can't do anything unless a big strong man comes to rescue me" characterization from Crisis Core.
To be fair, as much as I think Crisis Core is stupid from conception, it does take place 5 years earlier, right? It makes sense that Aerith would grow from the time she was a teenager.
My issue is that the scenes of her childhood show that she always had a bit of that spunkiness players knew from the OG, whereas CC tries too hard to give the impression that spunk came as a direct influence from Zack. Aerith just has too much self-doubt in CC whereas her defining character trait in my mind is her self-confidence. You don't just turn around like that, even with five years time gap, from self doubt to full self confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Golbez
Just another reason to hate Zack. Zack is the worst. He was only a plot device in FF7 and he should have been left that way.
I honestly like Zack and didn't mind his characterization in CC, it was what they did to all the other OG cast members that bugged me more.
I thought Zack was the best thing about Crisis Core really. The rest was just average.
He was essentially just a less annoying version of Tidus.
More like a less annoying version of Namingway.
Jessie, Wedge and Biggs got the most additional stuff of the original cast for me. Biggs was my favourite of those as in the original I can't remember a thing about him as a personality. In this, he's really nice, the kind of guy I'd like to hang out with.
I'm surprised to say that Barret probably developed the best of the playable cast. Surprised because I thought I'd hate him in the remake after hearing him talk in the trailers, but although I thought his voice would grate on me and he annoy me really quickly, it never really happened. Glad for that.
Not really keen on the changes in Cloud, but not against them either. Happy enough, I suppose?
Tifa and Aerith were pretty much what I expected, just more detailed versions of their existing self, and I'm happy enough with that. I liked them both decently. Still prefer Tifa. No change of opinion really but happy to get more lore and 'feeling' for both of the two of them in their respective ways. Good good.
Villains were all generally awful, but at least Scarlet was funny. The rest were fairly generic. Sephiroth did not need that much attention and screentime at all, but I understand why they did it.
Jessie by a mile. Her story arc is a significant part of the first quarter of the game. And, despite what some may think, she's not one-note. Her interest in Cloud (which is definitely genuine, as I'll get into later) is only a part of her character. There's also the fact that she gave up her dream to join Avalanche and try to find a way to save her dad, and her guilt over what she thinks she did with her bomb. She's also the only one who reaches out to Cloud after the others (even Tifa) turn him out following the Reactor 1 mission.
And if you pay attention, you'll see that there are times, entire scenes even, where she doesn't make a single pass at Cloud. When she's alone in his room with him, for example, she's all business even though it would've been easy for her to make some flirty remark about being there. But she didn't. So she's not as obsessed as some people think. It's that her flirty moments stick out more in the mind so it can seem like that's all there was. But it wasn't. She's more than that.
Now, on to her interest in him. I say it's genuine, and here's why. First, her reaction to him saying he'll think about coming over to see her the next night (if you choose no promises) is too happy and excited to have been an act. The expression on her face says it all. Also, and this is key - if you talk to her twice before leaving for Reactor 5 after choosing "no promises" the night before, Jessie reminds you about the date, telling you to hurry back so her home-cooked pizza doesn't get cold. That proves that her offer and interest were completely genuine.
As for what Wedge said, keep in mind that he also said guys weren't allowed at Jessie's place. But because she invites Cloud over, it shows that there are times when they are. This means that Wedge was wrong. And if he was wrong about that, he can also have been wrong about it being just a game for her. It's his opinion, not necessarily fact. And also, actors and actresses are known to become affected by the roles they play. So even if it started out as a game, that doesn't mean her interest couldn't have developed so that by the time of her invite, it was completely genuine.
Now, on to Cloud. On the surface, he looks uninterested, but is that really the case? Not necessarily. First, you should know that Nojima (one of FF7R's main writers) explicitly said that Cloud's harsh demeanor is nothing more than a front. It's a way of looking cool and getting attention. That's all. This means that he doesn't actually mean the rude things he says, including to Jessie. He just doesn't know how else to express himself at first or relate to others.
Jessie is actually the first to start to change that. She sees right through his front, and that's why she keeps flirting and messing with him. Because she knows she can. She's interested in him, but she also wants to help draw him out of his shell (according to her VA Erica Lindbeck). And by the end of Chapter 4, she succeeds. According to Nojima, Cloud is initially confused around her because of how she is. But confusion is not necessarily the same thing as disinterest. It's just that he doesn't know how to express it yet.
At the start of the bike chase, when Jessie asks him if he's going to take her breath away with his skills, he tells her not to blame him if she gets sick. This is not a denial. He never said no. And he's definitely trying to impress her. When they exit the tunnel, he does a wheelie even though he could've just kept driving normally. He had to have known that Jessie would like it, going by her obvious excitement during the chase, and she did, yelling and grabbing onto him with a big smile. Cloud did that little stunt to impress her and make her happy, even though he didn't have a clue as to how to say it or show it.
Their dialogue on the bike is more banter than anything else, and his remarks come off more as smart-aleck wiseguy comebacks than actual annoyance. Jessie knows that, which is why she laughs them off. For example, at one point he tells her to get off, but as they were speeding down the tunnel at the time, he had to know she couldn't do it. Which means he didn't really mean it. He was just trying to be a funny smart-aleck in his own oddball way. Same with him saying "Nope" to her jokingly asking if she's thawing his heart. It was more a witty comeback than an actual expression of how he felt. Also, notice that as much as Jessie holds onto him and hugs on him, he never once tells her to stop. He doesn't have a problem telling people when they're not wanted, so the fact that he never told Jessie to quit hanging on him means he didn't actually mind her doing it. Even that he could've liked it, though he might not have realized it himself at that point and didn't know how to respond to it.
When she kissed Cloud, he wasn't uncomfortable. He was surprised and probably overwhelmed, and like with the rest of her affection, he just didn't know how to respond to it. So he just chose the option he was most comfortable with and stayed quiet. He never answered her question about the cold shoulder, and the fact that he never told her that's what he was doing leaves it open that he wasn't.
When Jessie hugs him and makes her invitation later, Cloud seemingly tries to get her off him. But, as strong as he clearly is, he could've done it easily. That he didn't succeed shows that his attempt was only half-hearted at best. If he had really wanted her off, she'd have been off right from the start. But he simply gave up instead. And if you watch carefully, you'll see that when she first hugs him and he lifts his arms, he starts to move them toward her at first as if to hug her back but then catches himself and stops. It's like he started to show more than he meant to but caught himself and slipped back into his shell. Just like when she caught him laughing on the plate and he panicked and slipped back into his shell when she called him on it. A subtle hint as to what he might really have been feeling or been thinking at that moment.
Cloud smiles at her more than once, even in the midst of his supposed stoicism. When he holds the materia she gave him in Sector 8, he gives her a little smile as he looks at her. And he does it again just before he picks her up to carry her into the bar in Chapter 4. They've formed a friendship by then, at the very least, and it's possible he could've felt at least a little attraction for her. He's much more tender to her in Japanese, as these lines show:
English
Cloud: Are you seriously that desperate?
Japanese
Cloud: Is this how it's gonna be?
English
Jessie: My hero... so gentle...
Cloud: Just try to hold on.
Japanese
Jessie: You saved me again...
Cloud: I'll save you as many times as you need.
That last exchange especially has some romantic undertones to it. So in short, Cloud and Jessie's romantic arc might not be as one-sided as some people think. It's just easy to miss because it's not hammer-over-your-head obvious like some romances tend to be. But I think if they'd had more time together, something could've really developed between them eventually - think of Squall and Rinoa from FF8. Bubbly girl slowly thaws out stoic guy, who ends up falling for her. Jessie did begin the thawing process for Cloud, and I hope that if she returns for Part 2 and beyond (which is a definite possibility) that we'll get more fun and interaction between the two, especially given the friendship they clearly had by the end of their time in Part 1. Maybe even the possibility of her being a viable third romance option. She was the Princess of the Gold Saucer, after all. I don't see SE passing up the chance to give Cloud the opportunity to go on a Gold Saucer date with the girl who was the star of the very play that's central to that event. If the player chooses that path, of course. And possibly including in that date the pizza dinner they were never able to have together in Part 1.
It was all pretty good. What did y'all think of Nanaki? I feel like we got to know him a little better than in OG at this point. He's almost completely silent until you get to Cosmo Canyon originally. At first I didn't really like the split party portion of Shinra HQ but the teamwork aspect of it really gave him chemistry with the rest of the party in a short amount of time.
It was Aerith 100%. I am only on chapter 9? and she's made me laugh at least 3 times. I really appreciate that she's much more fleshed out this time around - I feel like I actually get a better feel for her personality.
I'd say Aeris if it wasn't for her godawful English VA. What were they thinking?
I don't really think it's fair to list Avalanche, since they all had like 3 lines in the original game. Of course they're better! But I do love me some Jessie Rasberry.
For me, it's actually Cloud. Can't stand him in the OG, but I actually really like him in this game. My favorite part definitely has to be when they rescued Tifa and he's just like "killing it, I know".
You didn't like the voice actress? That's my one of my favorite parts.
something must be wrong with you
i didnt care about aerith in the original but boy did they make me care about her here
Same with me. I didn't like Aerith in the original. Without voice acting I just never really imagined a clear identity for her.