project for the new american century

okay that does it.

i just found a lovely little think tank called the project for the new american century.

so what does it belief in? well kind of a new world order under american control. it's first principle being "American leadership is good both for America and for the world" and that ""too few political leaders today are making the case for global leadership." and how is this to be acheived "such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle"

the main ideas are to increase military spending, to challeneg anyone who isn't friendly with american values,

it called for an abondonment of the anti-ballistic missle treaty (which it got in 2002) and to establish a us space force. and what is the us space forces duty to be? "space control"

so for this lovely group of people with quite a lot of influence. world domination and control just isn't good enough. they want space too. all so the world can have "american values" it also believes in permant us army bases so readiness for invasion in strategic places to be easier. (just in case noone actually wants to be under total american leadership).

and it is a massively powerful organisation with many leading figures among it's ranks, rumsfeld, wolfowitz, jeb bush, cheeney.

are we worried yet?

Nope, I am American.

It actually does piss me off a bit; America is a country, not a religon. The country abandoned its christain roots long ago, and has fallen ever since. When you think of it though, it is the only way to ensure saftey, is to have control over everyone, and everything. Ever read revelations, I see more and more fufilled every day. As peace itches in the middle east, and the world will come under one king. boo. I am not a huge fan of this move at all.

Links please? In the absence of internet based references, I'm willing to go look it up in periodicals and reference books, I just need to know what I'm looking for. This sounds like conspiracy theory to me.

Smells like Facism.

foa, they're genuine, I've been to the site before. Can't remember the URL to track it down right now.

Every worthwhile nation wants to impose its values on the rest of the world. If it didn't, it means it doesn't believe its values are right. Which doesn't make for a long-lived nation, or one with any cojones.

Yay, they’re getting space control, next their need the Gundanium Alloy…

Soon my precious Mobile Suits, soon…..

Evas!?

I beleive that space should be completley neutral. That's about... it... I guess :D


Actually, I talked to a little old lady who was boasting about during the second world war, the president put price ceilings (caps) on several items to prevent greedy bastages from getting rich off a false demand. She noted that with Bush it has been quite the opposite. Then she said that we will walk the same as Rome, and fall harder. It was just weird, but it seems true. History shoes that when a Civilization begins to expand its ideas and policies with force, they tend to collapse.

Actually, the fall of Rome was caused by the entire empire being corrupt and drunk, not because it was wide-spread. Look at the British Empire. We ruled 1/4 of the world, and it took a long time for the power to wane (And bear in mine, both Rome and Britain, as well as almost all other empires, continue to exist in some form or another once they fall.).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

(And bear in mine, both Rome and Britain, as well as almost all other empires, continue to exist in some form or another once they fall.).

---

So Wisconsin will never die! /flex

Anywas, I just don't really know what to think of this idea. I mean, it seems kinda rediculous to make everyone play by your rules. No peaceful resolutions, etc.

How set in stone are these Ideals, I would like some reading on this subject now lol :)

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project...erican_Century

As fun as mecha anime are, they have no place in this thread. See you in two weeks.

~Void

Thank you for the information. :)

I've been trying to tell people about this for AGES. Nobody listened to me though. Sasquatch thinks it's some conspiracy that I made up, and The Redneck... Well he was just a plain moron.

Quote:

---

it also believes in permant us army bases so readiness for invasion in strategic places to be easier. (just in case noone actually wants to be under total american leadership).

---

It's not just that. It wants to liquidate the military bases in europe, and move them to places like Iraq. Well guess what, we are building smurfing permanent military bases in Iraq. If people would pay attention to this think tank, they would know EXACTLY what our last war was all about, and exactly what the bush presidency is all about. This will lead America to ruin, in the same way that Hitler brought Germany to ruin.

Quote:

---

This sounds like conspiracy theory to me.

---

I can promise you, it's not. It sounds like a conspiracy theory because cloud 9 made it sound far fetched.

so, will mark hamil save the galaxy? i mean, c'mon! lots powerful countries plain hate the us. do you think they'll fall that easily? take china. lots and lots of soldiers, lots of power and BIG BALLS. i think they learned their lesson when gengis kahn brought them down long time ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by radyk05

so, will mark hamil save the galaxy? i mean, c'mon! lots powerful countries plain hate the us. do you think they'll fall that easily? take china. lots and lots of soldiers, lots of power and BIG BALLS. i think they learned their lesson when gengis kahn brought them down long time ago.

---

You don't understand the point of the Project for the New American Century. The goal isn't to invade everybody and occupy the entire world. The goal is to secure strategic locations on the globe using military force so that we can keep our position as the most powerful nation on the planet. The middle east just so happens to be one of those hot spots. It is going to be a highly contested region, and we want control over it.

Space is already militarized and has never been neutral.

LOOKATME LOOKATME!! i control the middle east AND the northen west!! YAY :)))))). big deal. stay in control of soon-to-be-OBSOLETE combustible and your country. lets see if the PoAC can do anything against the REST OF THE WORLD.

Wackjobs have always existed. I'm sure if the Nazi's had internet their website would have a cooler design. Probably with flash games.

Pretty much the entire Republican leadership is or has been a member of this organization. It's scary.

Quote:

---

From that wikipedia article Cloud linked to:
Present and former members include several prominent members of the Republican Party and Bush Administration, including Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, Richard Perle, Richard Armitage, Dick Cheney, Lewis Libby, William J. Bennett, Zalmay Khalilzad, and Ellen Bork, the wife of Robert Bork. A large number of its ideas and its members are associated with the neoconservative movement. PNAC has seven full-time staff members, in addition to its board of directors.

---

I like the Project for the Old American Century a lot more. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShlupQuack

Wackjobs have always existed. I'm sure if the Nazi's had internet their website would have a cooler design. Probably with flash games.

---

Quoted because it's hilarious and true. I do belive this though, as it seems to have underlying logic on it, and obviously fits what has been going on for the past many years. It just seems logical to want to protect you country, and to hold your beliefs above others. To do anyless, would make you weak, and Korea's next target :D

bipper

but the thing is these aren't just any random wack jobs. these are people that pretty much openly state their want for world control. and will do it militarily. and this isn't some random underground group this is the men at the top of the us government.

the men at the top of the us's government have pledged in a manifesto that they want total us control of this world and the space beyond. a world empire.

it's been tried before and stopped and called evil. brave people stood against it before. against napeolean and hitler and stalin. brave people need to stand against this now. do not be blinded by your nationality. do not think it won't be that bad. that american control would be a good idea. world domination was seen in the same way by the russians, french and germans. do not be blinded like that.

every nation has the right to self determination.

america has had it's reichstag fire. we have now discovered it's mein kamph. how far will you let this go? will you brave enough to stand against a military empire when the time comes?

Stop calling it world domination, because that isn't exactly what it is. It's simply about maintaining sole superpower status.

Just because you post when we're all asleep doesn't mean you won't get banned when we see it the next day.

global american leadership is the same as global german leadership in the 1940's. total control of space is pretty damn obvious. increasing military might and using force speaks for itself.

and yes it does matter if it seeks to do so and in fact increase it's power by force. would it have mattered if germany remained the world's super power in the 40's? or if stalin gained control of the world? or if napolean had went through britain and russia?

Yeah...if America starts gassing Jews for no reason, then we have something to worry about (...or more they have something to worry about but still...)

Until then I’m going to continue not caring, waiting patiently for my Wing Zero…

gassing jews was not the reason we decided the nazis had to go. it was because they had a nasty habit of starting wars, bombing people and invading other countries with the desire of gaining military and absolute control over at least europe and beyond.

the pnac seems to have similar views.

Quote:

---

On a slightly less serious note, if America does remain the only super power, does it really matter?

---

The reason it matters is because for America to achieve this goal, alot of people are gonna have to die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nik0tine

Quote:

---

On a slightly less serious note, if America does remain the only super power, does it really matter?

---

The reason it matters is because for America to achieve this goal, alot of people are gonna have to die.

---

and the sad part is, many of them will be our own. It is a sad truth, but a truth none the less. Then again, people will complain about it and go back to thier delusion of every different race, religon, and system in the world hapilly shaking hands and working things out.

It is sad, but if Revelations was indeed forsight, I strongly belive it will happen.

it matters because i refuse to live under america. and i will be prepared to die and kill to ensure that there is none of this new american century. i personally want independance for my country not to be held by america.

a nation's right to self determination has a habit of starting wars. it is that important and a american empire will create that. and i and i hope others will be there to ensure that this concept never comes into being.

I am with ya there cloud, i just think that people have serperate ideas, and submitting to on idea should no be enforced. An Idea can be proposed, and then accepted, but to enslave the world (in essence) to protect ourselves, seems extreme.

I don't want this, but I really have to wonder how much hate for us is genuine. I know yours is cloud (well by us I meant our government), and I know we have several enemies. But if we ever did close up, and become near isolated, does anyone really think we would be left alone? I dont.

Like everything else, there is two sides to it. Morally, I am against it; I believe in a democratic union of countries, but not a self aligned country leading a union.

On that note, it seems like the growth of united countries and thier governed structures are following the same trends that just, plain nations did. The same styles have all been applied, and nearly all died.

Bipper

america basicly needs to start playing ball. it (and the eu) need to drop subsidies, tarrifs, debt and double aid. america needs to accept the kyoto agreement and start making progress on co2 and global warming. the us needs to start obeying international law and become and equal member of the international committee. it needs to get it's priorities right when it comes to terror, human rights, nuclear arms and unwanted intervention. guantanamo needs to shut down.

otherwise america is headed for war. and that was before this plan. this plan now just makes things more concrete it gives people like me even more to fight for.

I think that if our government really tried to move in to make this a reality, people would stand up against it. The entire premise is so ridiculous. How would this be in the best interest of the country? I, for one, wish we were an isolationist state, like before WWI. I don't see how anyone could consider this just or right.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who do. And Bush was re-elected, although of course the validity of those results are questionable at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

Like everything else, there is two sides to it. Morally, I am against it; I believe in a democratic union of countries, but not a self aligned country leading a union.

---

I agree- having countries too divided simply causes conflict, but domination by a single power is no better. The best way is, as you said, a democractic union. I'd like to see different countries unite as much as possible, but you have to take things slowly and carefully. Different culltures and ways of thinking prevent there being just one, large country, at least at the moment.
This American superpower thing doesn't help, though- it forces a hypocitical and flawed ideoligy on others, one which no-one wants.

EDIT:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hsu

I think that if our government really tried to move in to make this a reality, people would stand up against it. The entire premise is so ridiculous. How would this be in the best interest of the country? I, for one, wish we were an isolationist state, like before WWI. I don't see how anyone could consider this just or right.

---

You weren't that isolationist- you just stayed out of European affairs. You still intefered with the politics of Cuba, Nicuragua, Mexico, hell, even Japan! Anyway, isolationism never works.

Quote:

---

otherwise america is headed for war. and that was before this plan. this plan now just makes things more concrete it gives people like me even more to fight for.

---

This "plan" existed long before any of these things happened.

Quote:

---

I think that if our government really tried to move in to make this a reality, people would stand up against it. The entire premise is so ridiculous. How would this be in the best interest of the country? I, for one, wish we were an isolationist state, like before WWI. I don't see how anyone could consider this just or right.

---

That's why it's executed discreetly. If the government just speaks of one issue, and not the greater picture, they can get by with it.

but the plan is now in motion, the iraq war (which in fact the pnac decided upon in 1998) shows that, the removal of the power of the un again shows that this is a process.

the question is should we fight it now?

Again, I'll do my best to be the opposing opinion...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

but the plan is now in motion, the iraq war (which in fact the pnac decided upon in 1998) shows that, the removal of the power of the un again shows that this is a process.

---

Iraq was doomed since its conception. The war in Iraq started when they invaded Kuwait. We have been at war with them ever since. We left the Iraqis in a miserable state after the liberation of Kuwait, in which they were dependent on the most corrupt elements of the UN for food and medicine. I've never understood how living simultaneously under sanctions and a dictatorship is better than having the chance to fight for self-determination.

As to PNAC, who cares? They present their ideas at the voting booth just like everyone else. If you disagree with them, then simply don't vote for them. American economic dominance depends more on their ability to produce mathematicians and scientists than its location of military bases. And if we think about this pragmatically, it makes sense to shut down the Cold War infrastructure. It is a shame that we did not begin transforming the military before 9/11.

Quote:

---

They present their ideas at the voting booth just like everyone else.

---

No they don't. The majority of people who voted for Bush has never head of these people.

I think this is a wonderful idea.

It is about time that the world understands that America is the rightful ruler of the world. We started with testing in Afghanistan and Iraq, and now that we are succeeding, the world is realizing that we are in the right. Iraq and Afghanistan have underwent real democratic elections with leaders we hand-picked and who will be subserviant to our rules and regulations. We can enforce our ideas and beliefs beyond our borders in order to make a more socially just society, because America is socially just and all people are equal. If not for George Bush, these countries would be a safe-haven for terrorists to work there evil deeds! Now, we must extend our influence more. A draft is in order, so that we can spread our influence into more third world countries. This effort will take a lot of man-power, but in the end, it will be worth it. Foreign Countries of Europe, it is time for you to submit to the will of the American Superpower. Together, under the leadership of America, your country can be bettered.

Dignified Pauper I really hope that was sarcasm? :D

Oh wow. I really don't know where to start. America is great, and I am in no way anti-American, but we have not always been in the right. We are a horrible realization of many different ideas, meling into one entity. While this makes us strong, it also creates our weaknesses. I just don't think that America is for everyone. Freedom of religon world wide? Well that is not a great idea, as it comprimizes religous rights, just to enforce half those laws. If we go down that road of facism, I will be truly disapointed in my country. I do agree that it is happening, but it is in it's infancy, and I have faith that the populace will eventually come around. If I am wrong, its not gonna be a good thing for anyone. :(

What is the point of enforcing freedom by conqouring others and making them live by your rules? This is why democracy exists. Sure, as it has been called 'Mob rule' it forces multiple views to be seen. I don't belive that this could be done by such an act. Enslaving the world, so we can live in peace? There are different roads to take.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dignified Pauper

I think this is a wonderful idea.

It is about time that the world understands that America is the rightful ruler of the world. We started with testing in Afghanistan and Iraq, and now that we are succeeding, the world is realizing that we are in the right. Iraq and Afghanistan have underwent real democratic elections with leaders we hand-picked and who will be subserviant to our rules and regulations. We can enforce our ideas and beliefs beyond our borders in order to make a more socially just society, because America is socially just and all people are equal. If not for George Bush, these countries would be a safe-haven for terrorists to work there evil deeds! Now, we must extend our influence more. A draft is in order, so that we can spread our influence into more third world countries. This effort will take a lot of man-power, but in the end, it will be worth it. Foreign Countries of Europe, it is time for you to submit to the will of the American Superpower. Together, under the leadership of America, your country can be bettered.

---

Except for hte fact that America is a racist country to be a minority in America is to be a second class citizen. Also the fact that the poor are treated like also.

Have oyu ever been poor? I have and it sucks man. I was about 6 my dad left my mom and she had nothing. We worried about the next meal literally.

Ever survived off of gravy for dinner for 3 weeks striaght? Alrighty.

BTW the gravy was 3 years old.

Do you know the BS I deal with being a minority in america. It Fing sucks man. The fear of being harrassed you and your wife and oyur children by a policeman because its a power play to humiliate th person to let them know whose the "law" Thus the police being above it. Guess what happens when this guy goes public with what two police officers did to his wife and children? He can't say anything because
Its the "race card". You know who says its the race card? White America. Yes you guys are so againt racism that man no one can't Fing speak up and say whats Fing happening. Yeah this post has passion. .. I bet you would want me to show Fing new articles? How can I show a link to a news article aboout a man having his wife children being harrassed by cops when they were pulled over just becuase the police felt justifed to do so.. There is no such article because we live in a country that can't confront its own Fing problems and face them like the founding Fathers did. I think a country I mean the most powerful country int he world. It has to be pathetic that it really can't help out its own yet we can go invade a small middle eastern country,and remove a dictator that had no stragetic importance.
Am I the only one that think its pathetic.

Man You know what happened in New Orleans? It took five days til they could ever get just basic necessities. Such as water. Sure there was some violence and those were just idiot gangsters stealing crap. Sure you had the idiots stelaing a plasma TV. But what about the ones just thinking about themselves and there family? What about people int he working class who couldn't get an advancement on their paycheck so they could get the hell out? They were trap... Man imagine being in a 105 degree cess pool of feces and having to piss your pants. Without proper clean water for 5 days. Its a miracle that people even survived that once the gov. got off its bureaucratic butt. They closed off New Orleans prior to that so other aide couldn't come.

Anyway Pauper I would have to just disagree with you..Unless you were being sarcastic.

I'm gay, and I'm socially accepted. I don't mind having to move my entire life to a different state so that I can enjoy the same priveleges my heterosexual counterparts get. If Spain was under American control, I'd have no problems being completely relocated from my family, regardless of financial issues in order to be with the one I love. That's just what America is about, freedoms for all in separate places.

Furthermore, in an Americanized world, we can assure that all people, under the watchful eye of our military and world-land security department, will remain safe and terrorist influenced free! We can cut out those heinous jokes about terrorism, and we can limit free thoughts where it would hinder our country. After-all, a society that thinks alike is a happy one. When the new American standard is issued and the world is forced to submit, they will realize that it is indeed for the better good.


As for the minority part. I am somewhat of a minority as a homosexual. I don't mind being subserviant for the white heterosexual dominant. After-all, it is for the better cause of society and will help the world grow to be a better place under the eyes of George Bush.

I'm The Man, and I approve of Dignified Pauper's sarcasm.

I still think your being sarcastic....

I don't think that being black, white, rainbow colored (or anythign else) has much to do with the politics of the situation. If the world falls to America's military and is forced to her influence, it would be the ultimate oxymoron ever.

I am completley against this. WE live in a DEMOCRACY, why would we be so SELFISH as to FORCE our beliefs on PEOPLE who are UNWILLING to take them in. look at the capsed words real close.

Bipper

Allow me to clairfy.

In your life, you will meet people who simply cannot help themselves. They either don't have the ability, don't know how, or are not responsible enough to want to. Well, some countries (by some, I mean all that are not America) don't realize that they are in need of help, and those that do won't ask for it or are too child-like to want to stop. Thus, it is our job to be the adult and to come in and force them to see the right way to do things, the American way of doing things.

It is the moral obligation of any super-power to protect and cradle the world in it's arms, even if those other countries are resistant. In the case of Iraq, people may not seem happy, but they have never been happy. The reason is that America is only a little over 200 years old and is just now getting involved in the lives of Iraqi's and the Middle East. Wouldn't you be resistant if your parents were never around through your life and then all of a sudden, they come in and try to take charge for the better?! I know I would, but sooner or later, I'd realize they were right.

Actually, this is a Republic, not a Democracy. It's always been a Republic. No true Democracy has ever existed in this world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

I still think your being sarcastic....
Bipper

---

woa, I am seriously scared. This would be oppression, and I don't think America has what it takes to tackle all the worlds problems. We can only do this together, peacfully.

If two people are arguing and one blows the other one up, that doesn;'t make the more powerful one right. It does to an extent, as there is less resistance to his point, and if there is no one to say he is wrong, is he?

do you think American beliefs are that important? Death solves nothing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by udsuna

Actually, this is a Republic, not a Democracy. It's always been a Republic. No true Democracy has ever existed in this world.

---

Democratic Republic as I have learned is the official label. It is still a form of democracy.

If two people are arguing, and one blows the other up, then that's murder.

However, when two countries squabble (and one is America) and the other country doesn't agree, then America must lay down discipline. It's like spanking a child. It hurts us more than it hurts them.

Now, as far as opression goes. Freedom freeing, but it isn't free. While Iraq will eventually have more freedom in the end, the price to obtain freedom is not free. Look at what America did, we started a revolution and we freed ourselves at the cost of war. Well, we're willing to have those other countries pay that price for freedom under our carefully watched eye. Iraq would never have had a revolution, but because we intervened, they are in a better world stance. If we start doing this to all countries, eventually, the world will be more like America, which will be the best thing for the world down the line.

oh, you are serious...

Well, one one person kills another, it is murder. We killed how many in iraq. Its murder, but justified. That is not what I am getting at - What I want to say, is that if that is how the world will be, we mad Iraq free so that WE could oppress them.. weird.

edit- I do agree that it is good Iraq was freed, but we should only be there for protection. There is a difference between offering protection for what we belive in, and forcing it.
Bipper

If Dignified Pauper is not sarcastic/playing devil's advocate, then my name is Karl Rove.

i think you fail to realize that if your beliefs don't follow American beliefs, then you are doomed to fail. That's why we are enforcing our beliefs on others, we know that our beliefs are correct. It's like a little kid that kills a baby bird. He doesn't know it's bad until someone tells him it is bad.

I hope you understand my points. After-all, sometimes, tolerance isn't going to work. We'd like to tolerate other countries, but only if they tolerate us and accept us as the world leader and the morally superior. If they can't tolerate us then we need not tolerate them, thus we will show them true tolerance under our freedom of the Democratic Republic. While I may not agree with everything you have to say, as an individual, I can't do anything about it, and as an American, you have the right to disagree, so long as it does not disturb peace or interfere with american globalization, because it is essential for a free and more democratic Earth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

oh, you are serious...

Well, one one person kills another, it is murder. We killed how many in iraq. Its murder, but justified. That is not what I am getting at - What I want to say, is that if that is how the world will be, we mad Iraq free so that WE could oppress them.. weird.

edit- I do agree that it is good Iraq was freed, but we should only be there for protection. There is a difference between offering protection for what we belive in, and forcing it.
Bipper

---

lol Free lol man its chaos in Iraq. They were better off with a dictator..Atleast their was order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by "The Project for the New American Century

The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.

---

Wow, look how that isn't the American government.

I hate threads like these. I mean, let's answer honestly: this is crazy, and I have enough conviction in the American people that if this was actually attempted, the majority of people would recognize it for what it is - blind use of force. Thankfully, this isn't even the American government, but a group of crazed-Conservative-patriots who are lost on world affairs (and morality).

But, some of the "ideas" posted in this thread are just as ridiculous. "America needs to stop this and follow Kyoto agreements!" Uhm, no. Don't give more useless ideas in the face of an opposing useless idea. America doesn't have to do anything - especially not what the rest of the world wants from America.

And comparing America to the Nazi state is over-doing it.

Quote:

---

Wow, look how that isn't the American government.

---

But they have alot of influence in the government. Plus, the goals of this group are being accomplished by the government.

The group has been complaining that the government isn't helping them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Letter to Congress on Increasing US Ground Troops

The United States military is too small for the responsibilities we are asking it to assume. Those responsibilities are real and important. They are not going away. The United States will not and should not become less engaged in the world in the years to come. But our national security, global peace and stability, and the defense and promotion of freedom in the post-9/11 world require a larger military force than we have today. The administration has unfortunately resisted increasing our ground forces to the size needed to meet today's (and tomorrow's) missions and challenges.

---

Not to say the group isn't scary, but really, were you expecting someone like Rumsfeld not to like this? Of course some of the idiot Christian-Right Conservatives are liking the sound of it.

There have to be some rational people in our government, because they aren't getting what they want. And the people wouldn't stand for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nik0tine

Quote:

---

Wow, look how that isn't the American government.

---

Plus, the goals of this group are being accomplished by the government.

---

Well, that's hardly surprising. I mean, the whole point of the government is to complete the goals of the majority of the nation's people. So is it any wonder that it is doing things that some of its people agree with?

The problem here is that in this case, it's not a majority of the nation's people it's representing at all. I'll wager that the majority of the American people, being told this group's explicit aims, would be repulsed by a lot of the policies it wishes to enact.

I don't think anyone ever equated this exactly to the current American government, but you'd have to be pretty dense to believe that a large number of its goals have not been pursued in one oblique fashion or another since the Bush administration came to power, especially since a large number of the most powerful people in the administration are in the group.

And it's all well and good to say that America doesn't have to do anything, but if it wishes to continue to have the goodwill of the rest of the world, it would be highly advisable for it to do certain things, such as respecting generally accepted international law, and avoid others, such as abandoning globally accepted environmental standards. A lot of the world doesn't like America or Americans very much right now, and it's not entirely unrelated to American foreign policy within the past four years.

Thankfully, the Bush Administration has less than three years left, and I'm almost certain that we'll get a Democratic administration. Which means I'll have to fight draining social programs rather than world domination. I know that a lot of people from high-up are in this plot, but who cares? They can't really do anything without the consent of the people.

And give me a good reason why we need to have the world love us?

Besides, we already have a coalition within our own government that wants these claims. The Coalition of a New American Empire. It's just about every member of the Bush Cabinet.

I highly doubt even America has the means to enact this programme. There are MANY other powerful nations out there there would be very disgruntled. The very idea is repulsive, When Germany started to invade other nearby countries, it ended in the largest war in history. That is something I would never want to see in my lifetime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Thankfully, the Bush Administration has less than three years left, and I'm almost certain that we'll get a Democratic administration. Which means I'll have to fight draining social programs rather than world domination. I know that a lot of people from high-up are in this plot, but who cares? They can't really do anything without the consent of the people.

And give me a good reason why we need to have the world love us?

---

For what its worth, even the thought of this propiganda worries me. Hitler couldn't do what he did with out the will of the peaple. It just takes a small oversight, and wham. Seems funny that they call it educational, and they preach thier views. I know they would have points, but if they get enough voters, it will infact be inevitable.

Bipper

people have a nasty habit of giving consent to dictators and wanna-be world rulers. hitler was voted in democratically. will of the people or not it was not a very clever idea.

i think right now we are in the rhineland/austria stage. wanna let it persist til we get to poland and czechoslovakia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

people have a nasty habit of giving consent to dictators and wanna-be world rulers. hitler was voted in democratically. will of the people or not it was not a very clever idea.

i think right now we are in the rhineland/austria stage. wanna let it persist til we get to poland and czechoslovakia?

---

I think your conspiracy theories of the Reichstag fire, and America = Nazi Germany, are very entertaining.

However, I'm also somewhat scared by them. You're as far from reality as PNAC are, probably even further because they're not insane, merely oppressive and selfish.

i think that it's very easy to see the similraties between one country having an attack and then using it to quash civil liberties. then pointing out problems in other countries (like austria where the claimed the germans were being oppressed) and using it to invade. and having a lovely book pointing out that what they want is in fact global leadership in their own interest, in their terms for the benefit of them.

For what it's worth, civil liberties are not (yet) being attacked, here. And where is the book you are talking about? I think as a foreigner you are getting the wrong idea. I have never heard of these people before. We don't have rallies over here supporting them. Already they're not following the Nazi-line. Bush is hardly loved (he's rather mocked); we have no group of people being terrorized; small groups like this one is so small and out of the way that most people don't care or give a damn.

I'm not saying it couldn't logically occur; I'm also not saying that a lot of people will not vote for it. I'm saying that I find it very offensive to continue to read things like "lol america is nazi" - not as an American, but as a human being. I mean, give me a break - Bush is stupid, but hardly the menace that Hitler was. I think you're slapping the faces of all of the opressed people from the Third Reich, here.

Now, let's stop bitching about America, everyone, and talk - what is it about this plan in particular you dislike? How can we stop what it is that you dislike? Is there any good in it (you know how we love to see the good in things that aren't around here)?

Civil liberties are not being attacked yet? The Patriot Act seems like it should fit those qualifications to me.

Oh, I agree with that. I meant in regards to this stupid project, they aren't really talking about limiting civil liberties.

No, but in the long run, if America is to fall, civil liberties has to be the next target. I mean, economic liberty has been slowly declining for a long time now; civil liberties is next, and has begun with documents like the Patriot Act.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by The Man

Civil liberties are not being attacked yet? The Patriot Act seems like it should fit those qualifications to me.

---

Very true. I am just simply saying that this does not supprise me one bit. Althought the Patriot Act is most definatley to fix a national security issue, however its misuse and abuse is bound to happen. To me, it seemed like an M&m; A thin colorful candy layer, with horde of steamy bull in the middle. That is, a good concept, that will obviously be used for the wrong reasons.

Bipper

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

That is, a good concept, that will obviously be used for the wrong reasons.

---

Which, in turn, turns it into a bad concept.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hachifusa

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bipper

That is, a good concept, that will obviously be used for the wrong reasons.

---

Which, in turn, turns it into a bad concept.

---

*nods* that was the point of my post. (i hope) :D

by book i was referncing mein kamph to the various document of the pnac.

the people who are part of these organisation are not tucked away in some remote political stream. we are talking about the head of the world bank, the defence secretary and the vice president. it is small in scale but the amount of power those people wield is huge.

and people have voted for it. or they certainly aren't voting against it. iraq, the lies told about it and the winning of a second term prove that.

it's not a slap in the face to the veterans. it is a wake up call. we are blinded by the fact that it's either our country or our ally "good ole america" that has stated it's cause as world leadership.

and guantanamo bay is a pretty big kick in the teeth for human rights.

Bah I was 13 when bush got elected. My dad said in 2000. "Bush is gona be a horrible president but 4 years won't hurt much." So my mom had me follow politics. I saw the end and doom of its country. Step by Step. I don't even know why I'm studying for college. Whats the purpose of it al? I'm going to die because of some bastards. I never even had a chance to vote. When people tell me "You should've voted." Its like a kick int he nut sack because I couldn't. All we could do is watch. Watch as we slowly enter our doom.. I wish I could change citizenship but no one won't let me. I wish I could find some easy escape, but there is no such thing as an escape. I will die as a person who saw the en dbut was helpless to do anything.

I'm really depressed right now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

the people who are part of these organisation are not tucked away in some remote political stream. we are talking about the head of the world bank, the defence secretary and the vice president. it is small in scale but the amount of power those people wield is huge.

---

Not in reality, but their influence is, yes.

Quote:

---

and people have voted for it. or they certainly aren't voting against it. iraq, the lies told about it and the winning of a second term prove that.

---

No wonder you hate all Americans everywhere.

i would say the leader of the world bank, the vice president and defence secretay wield vast amounts of power.

and i don't hate americans. i hate america.

You know, America's globalization of the world under one banner is a remarkable idea, and I don't see how anyone could agree. With American Globalization, we will see a resurgence of unification on a global basis. No longer will we have these terms of immigration, everyone will be American. Chinese American, African American, Native American - none of these terms will be needed any longer, for all people would be considered American, and thus, the world would be more socially just. Chinese and African, etc. would thus be no longer a region and now a description of character, a lineage trait and no longer dated to where the individual came from, eliminating prejudice on where that individual came from, whether asia, the middle east, or africa - it'd all be considered America! How great and revolutionary can one get?! A world in which people are no longer biased based on where you are from!

There would be no need for border checks once the world was under American Globalization. We'd have less need for airport security, because who would want to bomb their own country. Besides, those people would be eliminated in the mass effort to globalize the world. And if we needed their genes for the aesthetic looks they may posess, then we would merely ship them off into isolation on some deserted island with enough provisions to survive for years. Even homes and a government (heavily secured) airport to restock previsions and to protect a power plant and all the other essentials America would provide.

America would have the ability and unlimited resources to put funding into developing third world locations. Inner-cities, to thrid world coutnries would be completely revamped in the globalization process and thus, enhanced to the current potential of society.

People of different backgrounds/views/beliefs would be allotted separate districts of the world they may inhabit, however, would not be restricted to, just where they would feel welcome. They may have to move their entire life and everything they know, be forced to speak another language, and pay a large sum, but in the end, I believe it would justify the means.

America would be able to open a global job market with fair wages for everyone. For all those not believing in the core Global American belief system, they would be forced to work for a significantly less pay than those who do, hopefully to change their minds since they are incapable of seeing the greater good of American Globalization. We'd have a significantly reduced percentage of homeless and jobless as well.

Holy cities of the world would be sanctioned off as restricted areas for tourism and no longer living. No one could claim any holy area in the name of their religion, instead, they'd be forced to share it with eachother, or, if George Bush is able to make this happen, then they'll be counted as Christian relics of the world, and the other cities not involving christianity would be bulldozed to place factories and malls to provide jobs, retail, and entertainment to the masses.

I don't understand how no one understand that only good would come from American Globalization.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cloud No.9

i would say the leader of the world bank, the vice president and defence secretay wield vast amounts of power.

---

They don't, really. I mean, compared to the average wage-worker, sure, but there's not a lot anybody can do in our society without the people's consent. Say what you want about the "New America" that has come about recently; we still are a constitutionally-limited republic.

And "World Bank"? Give me a break. That's an affront to liberty.

Funny thing is I agree with a good half of what Dignified Pauper said. Well; I'd want a system I believe in to be in charge of the world. Same as everyone else. And currently America is pretty much the closest on Earth to such a system, thus my preferance for US dominance.