Zidane > Squall & Cloud

Now we all know Squall Leonhart and Cloud Strife, the main protagonists of Final Fantasy VIII and Final Fantasy VII respectively. These two overrated sacks in the FF world have clouded over better heroes and one of them is Zidane Triball of the best FF (in my opinion) Final Fantasy IX. Now I don’t want to bore you with details but explain the simple truth: Cloud and Squall do NOT belong as the leaders of anything except a group headed to a pity party or some sort of ritual suicide squad.

Cloud- As we most know, Cloud was a loser. He couldn’t get into SOLDIER but he longed to be the man. He wanted to impress everyone including the girl with the large knockers who didn’t pay him attention. So, he goes off to be the man and fails. He then proceeds to take by surprise the “legendary soldier” and ultimately, ends up a lab rat for Shinra. Poked, prodded, anal probed and injected with semen/Jenova cells, he would be helped to escape, gurgling and totally helpless by Zack. He then meets up with the aforementioned large knockers girl who paid him no mind and using the J-Cells in him, he makes a fake memory and fake personality.

So, that’s the small synapsized backstory of our hero. A guy with a totally twisted, incomplete mind and memory that is leading us. Now, suffering psychological damage is not bad if you are leading a Girl Scouts’ troup, but when you are the main hero of a themed plot and you’re expected to be the “leader” you need something to you...and he did not have it. Mentally-warped people do not make the leader of a party in an RPG. Now, he goes through a big dramatic and way-too-long scene in the Lifestream with the girl from before and rediscovers himself in a blazing fashion. He managed to take a sword after being stabbed and hurled the legendary soldier away. Now this heroic act delivered with great music and displayed well was ultimately pissed on and disposed of, displaying the legendary soldier intentionally jumping away. So, Cloud’s one good moment is gone. Perhaps this leads to the fact that after a short while following the game, he has dug himself a nice little self-pity hole and is not answering his cell calls. Boo-hoo. What a leader.

Squall- ANYONE who even pretends to cling to the notion that this guy has any touch of leadership needs some serious help. He spends most of his time brooding, his memorable lines are “...” and he kinda just keeps snapping at everyone. Now, one would think Headmaster Cid and the makers of this game would not entrust the core of leadership to such a person. You see, people who don’t want to get close to others, who fear being left all alone and thus act like arses to keep them away, DO NOT make good leaders. That’s all I really gotta say on him. Moving on.

Zidane- Now what is to not like about Zidane? He has a tail? Okay. It’s a fantasy game, genius. His hourglass figure? It’s part of his “race” and sorry if a man can look nice. His hair? Well, I don’t like your hair. Get over it. Zidane actually, as opposed to the previously mentioned two, had leadership qualities. He was not besieged by mental demons nor afflicted with an inferiority complex. He was happy, go-lucky and wanted to help as many people as he could. People often take a look at his appearance and judge him “unmanly.” Is it so far beyond the realms of “manliness” to grab a girl’s rear? To flirt with a waitress at a bar? Hell, Cloud and Squall could have been closet homosexuals for most of the game and how would we know?

Zidane discussed philosophy and his life in eloquent fashion with a side-motive of impressing the girl he had fallen for. His one glaring moment of “emo-ness” was when he found out he could have been the instrument of his own planet’s doom, the place of his birth he longed would have been the cradle he grew up in to hate and destroy those he now called friends plus Garland was trying to take his soul away. So, I think that all constitutes one emotionally-riveting and inspirational sequence with terrific music to match.

My rant is hereby coming to a close. Have a nice day.

Zidane maybe makes a better leader, but Cloud was a much more interesting (if seriously smurfed up) character, i think.

agree with you on squall tho. bitch needs to get out of nappies before he starts commanding troops.

Well, I love Zidane quite a bit too :jess:

Of course, I also like the other two... But I just suck like that :cry:

In terms of just being "liked", Zidane is higher on my list. But, Cloud and Squall have a different appeal that goes out to a lot of people.

Maybe Squall wasn't supposed to be a leader, but everyone was meant to have looked up to him, so if they respected him it was only natural that he would lead them.

I do however agree with the majority of your post.

zidane is too young hah i wouldn't take any of them seriously. but for the purposes of their respective game worlds, yes zidane is the best...squall isn't a leader, nor is cloud

Sadly though you forget the most important thing about Squall. He would make the best decision regardless of the consequence. People respected him, and they would follow him. He made decisions that would put himself and others in harms way, because it was the right thing to do. He wouldn't be held back by emotions and crap like that, so they could always count on him to make the truly best decision regardless. People that prefer to be alone make some of the best leaders actually. Because they're not trying to make friends and get people on their side with their decision, they do what they think is right, regardless of what everyone else thinks. That makes Squall a good leader.

THE JACKEL

never thought about it like that. but personality and the ability to empathize are also a big part of being a leader

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Sadly though you forget the most important thing about Squall. He would make the best decision regardless of the consequence. People respected him, and they would follow him. He made decisions that would put himself and others in harms way, because it was the right thing to do. He wouldn't be held back by emotions and crap like that, so they could always count on him to make the truly best decision regardless. People that prefer to be alone make some of the best leaders actually. Because they're not trying to make friends and get people on their side with their decision, they do what they think is right, regardless of what everyone else thinks. That makes Squall a good leader.

THE JACKAL

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i couldnt agree with you more. also it has been failed to mention that squal had a suprior combat ability compared the rest in the garden (mention many times by quistis). and so i believe that is enough to be granted the title of leader due to the fact he knows what he is doing and every1 wil look up to him because of this, end of!

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Originally Posted by Aqua Heart

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Originally Posted by ljkkjlcm9

Sadly though you forget the most important thing about Squall. He would make the best decision regardless of the consequence. People respected him, and they would follow him. He made decisions that would put himself and others in harms way, because it was the right thing to do. He wouldn't be held back by emotions and crap like that, so they could always count on him to make the truly best decision regardless. People that prefer to be alone make some of the best leaders actually. Because they're not trying to make friends and get people on their side with their decision, they do what they think is right, regardless of what everyone else thinks. That makes Squall a good leader.

THE JACKAL

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i couldnt agree with you more. also it has been failed to mention that squal had a suprior combat ability compared the rest in the garden (mention many times by quistis). and so i believe that is enough to be granted the title of leader due to the fact he knows what he is doing and every1 wil look up to him because of this, end of!

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Unfortunately, "end of" doesent make a threads purpose accomplished. Hearing different opinions etc..

I agree with the jackal though.

I didn't think Cloud was a bad character. He had his weaknesses, but that made him more human, and he still proved to be quite a fighter in the end. Squall wasn't too comfortable with his role as being the leader, but he did alright. I think Zidane is one of the more underrated FF main characters. Even if he's not the main sword fighter who can cast Omnislash, Lion Heart or Blitz Ace to deal 999,999 damage, he's still a very well done character and a good leader. The line "No cloud, no squall shall hinder us!" already makes him likable. :p

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Originally Posted by Aqua Heart

i couldnt agree with you more. also it has been failed to mention that squal had a suprior combat ability compared the rest in the garden (mention many times by quistis). and so i believe that is enough to be granted the title of leader due to the fact he knows what he is doing and every1 wil look up to him because of this, end of!

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Fighting ability is a far cry from leadership qualities. Many good fighters in real history haven't been leaders.

To be fair, I would much rather have a leader chosen based upon fighting strengths and ability to make vital decisions then chosen by how likeable he is when it came to saving the world.

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Now, suffering psychological damage is not bad if you are leading a Girl Scouts’ troup,

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Go to hell.

I think what it really comes down to is that people want to follow both Cloud and Squall, and say so many times in the games. The main character is also often viewed as the "leader", and as the main character a very wide-range of responses, backstory, and problems can make them much more interesting.

I mean, would people follow Squall in real life? I don't know... Is it more unbelievable than Cid handing over an entire Garden of students to a 17-year-old? Sometimes, these things are just the plot they wanted to make.

And where on earth is Tidus in all this? Tidus is just Zidane without the mental breakdown when he finds out about himself. In fact, he just got up and smiled and kept going and bottled it inside. By your standards, Tidus > Zidane. Although Yuna was the leader and not Tidus in my opinion anyway.

They all save the world (assuming the player doesn't die), so in essence they all do the job they are given with the personalities they have. They're all winners when it comes down to it. If you disagree, and your stance is that Cloud and Squall are just incompetent, then I suppose the people who follow them are the people truly deserving of a rant.

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And where on earth is Tidus in all this? Tidus is just Zidane without the mental breakdown when he finds out about himself. In fact, he just got up and smiled and kept going and bottled it inside. By your standards, Tidus > Zidane. Although Yuna was the leader and not Tidus in my opinion anyway.

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Well, no one really likes Tidus. So saying Zidane > Tidus would hardly cause any interest while Cloud and Squall have a large fanbase. Oh and please do not insult Zidane. He is nothing like Tidus. Tidus leaned over and sniffed his companion, hates his father because he misses him and he whined. Over and over and over and over. Zidane whines...when? On Disk 3? That’s how many hours after Tidus goes “I need food!” in an abnoxious voice to absolutely no one. And after he’s done the whole “...sigh....life sucks...” act with Yuna at Luca before they do their infamously poor and ridiculous “HA-HA-HA-HA-HA” act. So, while one is amusing but has deep insight and philosophy and virtue to his actions, the other was a sports player, gets swallowed and proceeds to progress in lame-assery for the entirity of the game.

Besides, Zidane was made to be a weapon of death. Tidus was made for nothing at all. Zidane learned his existence would have killed and doomed the world he grew up on and the people he cared for. Tidus just learned everything he cared for and lived in was non-existent. Both distressing, though I still don’t recall someone trying to take away Tidus’ soul while he was trying to handle his grief. So, again, Zidane and Tidus have nothing in common.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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And where on earth is Tidus in all this? Tidus is just Zidane without the mental breakdown when he finds out about himself. In fact, he just got up and smiled and kept going and bottled it inside. By your standards, Tidus > Zidane. Although Yuna was the leader and not Tidus in my opinion anyway.

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Well, no one really likes Tidus. So saying Zidane > Tidus would hardly cause any interest while Cloud and Squall have a large fanbase. Oh and please do not insult Zidane. He is nothing like Tidus. Tidus leaned over and sniffed his companion, hates his father because he misses him and he whined. Over and over and over and over. Zidane whines...when? On Disk 3? That’s how many hours after Tidus goes “I need food!” in an abnoxious voice to absolutely no one. And after he’s done the whole “...sigh....life sucks...” act with Yuna at Luca before they do their infamously poor and ridiculous “HA-HA-HA-HA-HA” act. So, while one is amusing but has deep insight and philosophy and virtue to his actions, the other was a sports player, gets swallowed and proceeds to progress in lame-assery for the entirity of the game.

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Zidane does express concern over his parents. He looks for them in his past and does whine about it to Garnet in one of his few serious scenes. Zidane uses humor to cover up what he is really feeling from everybody. It's his defense mechanism. Just like Cloud retreats into his shell, and just like Squall tries to keep others at an arm length, Zidane will try to never take anything seriously so that way he doesn't have to feel the gravity of the situation. They all three do the same thing in different ways.

Tidus was made (this is on Nomura's webiste) to be an extrovert, because they felt the lead male being an introvert with his feelings had been done too many times. So Tidus is simply honest with what he feels at the time. I think it takes more courage to express yourself than bottle it up and hide it, but that's just what I think.

To say no one really likes Tidus is the same as the people who say no one really likes Zidane. Thus, the magic of different opinions!

And different opinions and freely expressing those opinions allows there to be Nazis, racists and corporate lobbyists who don't want cargo coming into the US to be checked because it would provide a slight delay in them raking in the money. Yes...different opinions are magical.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

And different opinions and freely expressing those opinions allows there to be Nazis, racists and corporate lobbyists who don't want cargo coming into the US to be checked because it would provide a slight delay in them raking in the money. Yes...different opinions are magical.

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I'm not sure what this had to do with anything, but it's obvious you want an argument and not a debate so I'm going to duck out of all this business right away because I don't like being this serious for this long, it gives me rashes in unknown places. If that is how you feel, then you shouldn't have joined a forum and expressed your opinion, you should simply move to a country where the government isn't free and you can't have an opinion because they make it for you.

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I'm not sure what this had to do with anything, but it's obvious you want an argument and not a debate so I'm going to duck out of all this business right away because I don't like being this serious for this long, it gives me rashes in unknown places. If that is how you feel, then you shouldn't have joined a forum and expressed your opinion, you should simply move to a country where the government isn't free and you can't have an opinion because they make it for you.

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Actually, I am debating. With facts. Nothing I've said is wrong or un-supported. You do know what a debate is, right..? It's opposing opinions but one ultimately comes out on top thanks to debating skills and facts. Thus, that opinion is superior. It's the facts of politics.

And, I would move there if such a place existed. Dictatorships could be the best form of government. But, humans are weak. Si, it won't ever work. Just like communism or democracy or any other form of government. I'm not an anarchist, just sensible. Nothing ever works perfect when humans are involved.

Forsaken Lover, it seems that you don't like anything to do with the FF series at all. So what the hell are you doing here, you sexist as*? Take your issues somewhere else, 'cause no one hear wants to hear your *snip* Got it? Good.
You are so bent on having an argument with anyone that posts a different opinion, forcing them to leave the thread, and no one will put up with that sh*t for long. I suggest you leave. You're not wanted here.

Forsaken Lover, your views on politics have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, so don't bring them into it.

Dragon Mage, do not insult another member like that again, even if you do disagree with them, or your stay here will be cut short. Also, there's a swear filter in place for a reason so don't try to dodge it.

Now then, if you all can't get back on topic and play nicely, this thread will be closed.

I still think I'd follow Squall before any of them. I'd trust him to make the right decision above the others.

THE JACKEL

Threads like this never end well.
"Game A sucks, and game B rocks, and THIS IS A FACT!!!" "Character B is much better than character C, AND THIS IS THE TRUTH!!!"

These things are only OPINIONS. The problem is when someone begin to think that his/her opinion is a fact, and want to prove to the others that they are "wrong" about their different opinions.
Unfortunatelly, exist many people like this in the Internet and in the world. And they are VERY annoying.

And Zidane is a better leader, and a better person, than Cloud and Squall, in my opinion.

Why do people debate such things so much?

Because some people like to debate on what they like to debate? People may prefer debating politics, economics, racial inequality...or simpler things like videogames. So, it's just a refinery tool to learn and strengthen one's feelings on a matter.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

His hair? Well, I don’t like your hair. Get over it.

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Had to laugh at that one :jess:

Who said that the central character had to have true leadership qualities or be a suitably qualified at giving out positive vibes? That is the exact notion behind the concept of repetitiveness. I understood Squall very well mind you and his poor communications skills and lack of ambition was what made the game all the more appealing. I couldn't care less if he made a meal of being a good leader, he led the rest of the characters well in his own quiet little manner. Simply not what you'd expect for someone who leads a party capable of diminishing a powerful sorceress, I grant you that but if you believe the game is giving you an accurate grasp on reality then you're looking in the wrong places

Well, people who say:

-Cloud sucks!
-Squall sucks!
-Zidane sucks!
-Tidus sucks!

And a number of otehr things like C + S sucks and Z rules, blah blah blah.

They are all wrong in fact. You want to know how it really is?
Cloud = Squall = Zidane = Tidus
And by that I mean about wich one is better. They're all quite equal when it comes to that. Sure I can pick my favorite, but that won't make me like the other three less. I've had my "This character sucks" in the past and always when I finished the game, I had to regret those words very much. Now I've almost finished VIII and when I've finished it, I'll have I till IX on my list of 'finished' Final Fantasies.

And if you guys are all true FF fans, you'll regret (like me) everything bad (and by that I mean: this FF sucks and this one is the best ever, and that's a fact!) you said about a FF. At least I did. Pointing out good and bad points about a game is fine. But a true FF would like every FF equally, never would say "This one sucks" and say "This one rules and that's a fact!". For I know how wrong that is. They're all good, every character so far were good, all in their own right.

I know there's personal opinion, but sometimes I feel like I am the only FF-fan who doesn't hate a FF or says "This FF sucks for this or that reason". Yes IX is my favorite, but all the others were master pieces too. Am I the only one who thinks they were all just excellent and that there's no FF or FF-character that sucks?

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Originally Posted by Elpizo

But a true FF would like every FF equally,

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I respectfully disagree with this. One doesn't have to be a fan of every game in a series to be a fan of the series, just like if someone doesn't like a single episode of a t.v. show doesn't mean they aren't a true fan of the show itself. I consider a true fan to be someone who fully respects the greatness of the series and is willing to accept that there are sometimes flaws in it. For instance I'm not a big fan of FF2, it just wasn't a game I could connect with, but that doesn't mean I'm not a true fan of the series. Of course this is another opinion thing so, you know, everyone feel free to rip this post apart...

i agree, zidane is the most underrated main character. he needs more shine. go to www.trueswords.com...you will see how they got clouds buster sword, tidus's water sword, squalls gunblade, sephiroth's long sword, and guess whose sword is missing out of all these. you guessed it...not one pair of daggers or double end sword.

Well, my opinion is that Cloud, Squall, Zidane, and Tidus are all awesome! None of them have ever annoyed me at all! In fact I LUV THEM! AND I WILL LOVE VAAN TOO! THAT IS MY OPINION! GRR ARGH >:3

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Originally Posted by LunarWeaver

I think what it really comes down to is that people want to follow both Cloud and Squall, and say so many times in the games. The main character is also often viewed as the "leader", and as the main character a very wide-range of responses, backstory, and problems can make them much more interesting.

I mean, would people follow Squall in real life? I don't know... Is it more unbelievable than Cid handing over an entire Garden of students to a 17-year-old? Sometimes, these things are just the plot they wanted to make.

And where on earth is Tidus in all this? Tidus is just Zidane without the mental breakdown when he finds out about himself. In fact, he just got up and smiled and kept going and bottled it inside. By your standards, Tidus > Zidane. Although Yuna was the leader and not Tidus in my opinion anyway.

They all save the world (assuming the player doesn't die), so in essence they all do the job they are given with the personalities they have. They're all winners when it comes down to it. If you disagree, and your stance is that Cloud and Squall are just incompetent, then I suppose the people who follow them are the people truly deserving of a rant.

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Oh come on saying Yuna is the leader and not Tidus will only make you a summoner geek and Tidus is the warrior/knight type and a star player so when a lead male came in first then he's the leader see? Well i like the four of them you are missing the warrior/knight from the 1st one Firion Luneth Cecil Bartz and Locke.

Yuna is the leader of that group. She decides what to do, the entire journey is about her. She's not the main character (until X-2) but she is the leader.

oh and tidus, squall, and cloud are all in kingdom hearts!..hmmm i wonder whose missing. oh yea, thats right. it always gotta be zidane. even wakka and selphie is in it. oh and we know sephiroth HAS to be in it. (even though kuja was a better villain)

You wanna start something? Don't start with me roto the game dosen't say she is the leader okay?

not neccasarily. zidane being better than the two of them is a lot to do with opinion.

squall is deep and has a great personality and really makes you think about a few things. replay FF8 and actually pay attention to squalls personality. you'll fins hes a great character.

cloud doesnt have as much as squall going personality wise but has a great part in the storyline. hes just a good character.

zidane. likeable and an amazing part on terra and hes a strong leader with a lot of personality but isn't neccasarily better than cloud and squall.

you cant really start a thread like this because thats your opinion.

and yuna pretty much is the leader because shes the summoner and the most important one in the group and the others are just her gaurdians. by most important i mean, the one they all protect and look after so she doesnt exactly lead the group but she is the most important.

(sighs) We are asked to play nice right? Well guys let's claim Yuna's the leader again okay see the real leader is Auron see he leads like Gandalf from the lord of the rings.

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Originally Posted by Michael Belmont

You wanna start something? Don't start with me roto the game dosen't say she is the leader okay?

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Michael Belmont, you've already been warned about this. Don't antagonize people for having a different opinion than your own.

Well i'm not the one who started it. And besides he won't respect my opinions claiming i don't have any.

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Originally Posted by Michael Belmont

Well i'm not the one who started it. And besides he won't respect my opinions claiming i don't have any.

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Michael, knock it off. If you can't accept that people disagree with you, then you won't last here much longer. People are dissenting your opinion, as I myself do because I personally would say you are, in most cases, very much wrong. I won't say you are the sole instigator, but you do go out of your way to antagonize anybody who doesn't agree with you. If I see much more of it, I will ban you.

You don't agree with me ether. FINE ban me then i'm sick and tired of your obsessons with Terra and taking the side of someone who hates me YOU SON OF A BITCH.

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oh and tidus, squall, and cloud are all in kingdom hearts!..hmmm i wonder whose missing. oh yea, thats right. it always gotta be zidane. even wakka and selphie is in it. oh and we know sephiroth HAS to be in it. (even though kuja was a better villain)

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One of the numerous reasons I despise the KH series. Though, I would figre they’re dead-on with Lance Bass voicing Sephiroth. Fits him very well.

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squall is deep and has a great personality and really makes you think about a few things. replay FF8 and actually pay attention to squalls personality. you'll fins hes a great character.

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Don’t have it at the moment. And I have played it through at least five times. Same for every FF I’ve beaten. I enjoy replaying. And my observations never changed. We have Squall, broody and silent, suddenly given development on Disc 2 with his tossing and turning in bed. Now, that would have been appropriate earlier, but they needed to do something about how amazingly bare his personality was and thus, they forced more character onto us. Then, Disc 3 displays his mad love for Rinoa. His desperate desire to save her. So, two revelations of his inner-character are appearing from nowhere and shoved down our throats. Squall is the epitome of emo - the world sucks...so I’ll be an ass to the world - and he represents this at numerous points. His small argument with Rinoa on Disc 1, his little outburst on Disc 2 when he’s told to inspire the Garden.

Thus this all displays how totally inadequit he is for a leadership role. Antisocial emoness resulting from fear, hating leadership and responsibility also resulting from fear. His character is not a leader in any means of the word except the story TELLS you he is. One of the main failings of the game.

His great personality is only made great through awkward scenes that come out of nowhere with no previous hints or clues. It was timed poorly and delivered more poorly still.

And Cloud...well, his stoic “I’m a badass” attitude was similarly regurgitated upon the gamer in the elevator where he tells the Planet and Barret to go F themselves. He’s just in it for the money. Ooh, now that’s never been done before.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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oh and tidus, squall, and cloud are all in kingdom hearts!..hmmm i wonder whose missing. oh yea, thats right. it always gotta be zidane. even wakka and selphie is in it. oh and we know sephiroth HAS to be in it. (even though kuja was a better villain)

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One of the numerous reasons I despise the KH series. Though, I would figre they’re dead-on with Lance Bass voicing Sephiroth. Fits him very well.

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squall is deep and has a great personality and really makes you think about a few things. replay FF8 and actually pay attention to squalls personality. you'll fins hes a great character.

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Don’t have it at the moment. And I have played it through at least five times. Same for every FF I’ve beaten. I enjoy replaying. And my observations never changed. We have Squall, broody and silent, suddenly given development on Disc 2 with his tossing and turning in bed. Now, that would have been appropriate earlier, but they needed to do something about how amazingly bare his personality was and thus, they forced more character onto us. Then, Disc 3 displays his mad love for Rinoa. His desperate desire to save her. So, two revelations of his inner-character are appearing from nowhere and shoved down our throats. Squall is the epitome of emo - the world sucks...so I’ll be an ass to the world - and he represents this at numerous points. His small argument with Rinoa on Disc 1, his little outburst on Disc 2 when he’s told to inspire the Garden.

Thus this all displays how totally inadequit he is for a leadership role. Antisocial emoness resulting from fear, hating leadership and responsibility also resulting from fear. His character is not a leader in any means of the word except the story TELLS you he is. One of the main failings of the game.

His great personality is only made great through awkward scenes that come out of nowhere with no previous hints or clues. It was timed poorly and delivered more poorly still.

And Cloud...well, his stoic “I’m a badass” attitude was similarly regurgitated upon the gamer in the elevator where he tells the Planet and Barret to go F themselves. He’s just in it for the money. Ooh, now that’s never been done before.

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i disagree. But the quote here does reveal the main fault of FF8, that the story tells you that it is this way so you have to deal with it.

But Squall was a soldier, and nothing more because he didn't want to get his mind involved in different things. He didn't care about anyone's feelings, he only knew the mission and how to get the job done. This is he type of person you want commanding you if you were ever to go to war. So although he may not have been the best main character, he was a great leader.

Cloud's a different story. I'm not sure what was meant when the threadstarter said Sephiroth moved out of the way. Cloud was impaled by Sephiroth... and when it looked like it was all over he lifted the "legendary soldier" and hurled him into the depths of the Mako Reactor. Cloud's will was stronger than Sephiroth's. That's what drives the storyline. Cloud didn't become the leader until they left Midgar, and this is because he was the only one who knew exactly what journey they were on, whatt they needed to accomplish, and how to do it. He was the only successful Sephiroth clone. He was the only one who could fulfill (and topple) Sephiroth's plan, and the legendary SOLDIER knew this. This is why Cloud arrived in Midgar around the same time "1" did. It's also why Sephiroth told him he was a defacto clone.

Cloud was also a great main character because he was used in the worst way, as an experiment, by Shinra Inc., then used again by Sephiroth, someone he hated the most, and someone he had once admired greatly.

Alot of people can relate to being used by others, and almost all the characters in the game represent that. It's what you do afterwards that defines you, and that's one of the greatest messages the game has to offer the player, and why 7 has possibly the greatest story in the series. Cloud didn't end up all okay in the head afterwards, but that's okay, because that's how people are in real life. He was possibly the first "real" protagonist in the series.

I think Zidane is a great character as well, but he's not really the leader until the end. The characters made decisions as a group during the whole game (alot like FFVI), and went against eachothers decisions like when Garnet and Steiner sneak away to go back to stop the Queen.

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Cloud's a different story. I'm not sure what was meant when the threadstarter said Sephiroth moved out of the way. Cloud was impaled by Sephiroth... and when it looked like it was all over he lifted the "legendary soldier" and hurled him into the depths of the Mako Reactor. Cloud's will was stronger than Sephiroth's. That's what drives the storyline.

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You don't know what a retcon is, do you? It means new material is taken as canon while all previous material is no longer what happened. Last Order retconed that scene. The "official" word now is that Seph jumped into the Reactor.

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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And where on earth is Tidus in all this? Tidus is just Zidane without the mental breakdown when he finds out about himself. In fact, he just got up and smiled and kept going and bottled it inside. By your standards, Tidus > Zidane. Although Yuna was the leader and not Tidus in my opinion anyway.

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Well, no one really likes Tidus. .

Tidus was made for nothing at all.

Zidane and Tidus have nothing in common.

Actually, I am debating. With facts. Nothing I've said is wrong or un-supported

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one i liked tidus he seemed more real then any other character.

two tidus was made to defeat sin.

three zidane and tidus personality were quite similar they both seemed like fun loveing guys.

and for the last thing well thats just not true at all.

back on topic.

i agree zidane is an awesome ff character and way to underated. people base him off the way he looks and dresses. i mean come on he pulled it off in the game pretty well:D he acted in the sense that when he was around no one had to worry because he would figure a way to save them no matter what. i mean yeah the characters didnt really catch on to that but you can definatly see how he's always so calm about everyhting because he knows he can get things done. plus he had the coolest weapon.

as for cloud. the reason he was the leader is because of his strength. also for so long as far as everyone knew he was a an ex sodlier. sinc ethere enemy was shinra and sephiroth he wa sput in charge because he has the most experience with them. lets see he was once in shinra and he killed the legendary sephiroth. hell id follow that guy anywhere because he's deefinatly not going to lose.

now for squall. he was mainly followed because of his strength. i wouldnt say he had a lot of leadership qualitys.but everyone else on the team didnt have any. quists maybe but she seemed to kind hearted to be a leader. i mean she coudl have whipped everyone but idk something tells me irvine would have liked that. so really out of those 6 i would have chosen squall to lead me into battle.

tidus was only really the leader during the seymour seen and from about yunalesca and on. the rest of the game yuna was the leader and tidus was along for the ride for the joy of hitting on yuna ;)

the whole damn ff9 is underrated. i swear if ff9 was released around the time ff7 and ff8 were released it would have been real popular. its just that ps2 came right after ff9 was released and nobody cared about ps1 games no more. they just skipped over ff9 and went straight to ff10

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Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover

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Cloud's a different story. I'm not sure what was meant when the threadstarter said Sephiroth moved out of the way. Cloud was impaled by Sephiroth... and when it looked like it was all over he lifted the "legendary soldier" and hurled him into the depths of the Mako Reactor. Cloud's will was stronger than Sephiroth's. That's what drives the storyline.

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You don't know what a retcon is, do you? It means new material is taken as canon while all previous material is no longer what happened. Last Order retconed that scene. The "official" word now is that Seph jumped into the Reactor.

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1. Firstly, I didn't even know that they did that with "Last Order"
2. No, I didn't know what a retcon was.
3. That's really lame that they did that
4. I think Square is losing their touch with reality.

In my opinion, Zidane is a better character than both of them, but Squall is a better leader. Like Bolivar said:
"But Squall was a soldier, and nothing more because he didn't want to get his mind involved in different things. He didn't care about anyone's feelings, he only knew the mission and how to get the job done. This is the type of person you want commanding you if you were ever to go to war. So although he may not have been the best main character, he was a great leader."
Squall was very professional, and i liked this.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

In my opinion, Zidane is a better character than both of them, but Squall is a better leader. Like Bolivar said:
"But Squall was a soldier, and nothing more because he didn't want to get his mind involved in different things. He didn't care about anyone's feelings, he only knew the mission and how to get the job done. This is the type of person you want commanding you if you were ever to go to war. So although he may not have been the best main character, he was a great leader."
Squall was very professional, and i liked this.

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that's basically what I was saying, he asked who was a better leader of the three, and by far, I think Squall is.

THE JACKEL

Zidane has a tail. 'Nuff said. :D

Also, he is a strong leader, and he doesn't take himself too seiriously.

Zidane>Cloudia>Squall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tidus

I'm using my magic psychic powers to say that Vaan will probably come between Cloud and Squall on my list. Anyway, that's my opinion. Zidane pwns all!

I don't think he is better than Cloud/Squall but i do like him, he was one of few FF main characters not to be constantly depressed, he was actully cheerful, which was good to see

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Originally Posted by scrumpleberry

Zidane>Cloudia>Squall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tidus!

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Originally Posted by scrumpleberry

Cecil>Zidane>Bartz>Vaan>Locke/Terra>Cloud>Squall>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tidus>Yuna!

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Fixxxxxxxed.

Squall Cloud and Zidane...they all shown thier characteristic and they have good leadership...except for Cloud...Squall and Cloud is the cool type guy and Zidane is the keep minding people's bussines type guy...he is talkative too..which hardly have in FF games except for Tidus he to is kinda talkative and straight forward.Thier love in the storyline is kinda same apart from which Squall's love story is same as CLoud's...This is just myu opinion anyway...

If we're including older characters...

Terra>Zidane>Cecilia>Cloudia>Bartz/Butz/Barts>Squall>Firion/Frionel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tidus

(I dunno about 3's new main...)

My magic psychic powers determine that Vaan will probably be between Cloud and Bartz,
but possibly between Cloud and Cecil.