EoFF RPG Thunderdome!

Been awhile since we did one of these contests. Mognet me a list of your ten favorite RPGs, and in ten days will have everyone's choices go head to head in a battle for the ages. I may also make this a bit more interesting, but it will depend on how many nominations I get.

Round One Winners
Match 1: Bravely Default
Match 2: Ys Oath of Felghana
Match 3: Ao no Kiseki
Match 4: Xenoblade Chronicles X
Match 5: Final Fantasy Tactics
Match 6: Xenoblade Chronicles 2
Match 7: The World Ends With You
Match 8: The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel IV
Match 9: Final Fantasy XIII-2
Match 10: The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel
Match 11: Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King
Match 12: Brave Fencer Musashi
Match 13: Xenogears
Match 14: Xenosaga Episode 1
Match 15: Final Fantasy X
Match 16: Romancing SaGa 2
Match 17: Mass Effect 2
Match 18: Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter
Match 19: Final Fantasy V
Match 20: Shadow Hearts 2
Match 21: Suikoden II
Match 22: Final Fantasy VII
Match 23: The Witcher 3
Match 24: Lunar: Silver Star Story
Match 25: Vagrant Story
Match 26: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Match 27: Odin Sphere Leifthrasir
Match 28: Persona 3: FES
Match 29: Wild Arms
Match 30: Final Fantasy IV
Match 31: Trails of Cold Steel III
Match 32: Final Fantasy VI
Match 33: Secret of Mana
Match 34: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Match 35: Persona 2: Duology
Match 36: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Match 37: Chrono Trigger
Match 38: Mario and Luigi Bowser's Inside Story
Match 39: Tales of Xillia
Match 40: Undertale

Round Two Winners
Match 1. Bravely Default
Match 2. Ao no Kiseki
Match 3. Final Fantasy Tactics
Match 4. The World Ends With You
Match 5. Trails of Cold Steel
Match 6. Dragon Quest VIII
Match 7. Xenogears
Match 8. Final Fantasy X
Match 9. Mass Effect 2
Match 10. Final Fantasy V
Match 11. Final Fantasy VII
Match 12. The Witcher 3
Match 13. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Match 14. Persona 3: FES
Match 15. Final Fantasy IV
Match 16. Final Fantasy VI
Match 17. Final Fantasy XIV: ARR
Match 18. Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne
Match 19. Chrono Trigger
Match 20. Undertale

Round Three Winners
Round 1. Ao no Kiseki
Round 2. Final Fantasy Tactics
Round 3. Trails of Cold Steel
Round 4. Xenogears
Round 5. Mass Effect 2
Round 6. The Witcher 3
Round 7. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Round 8. Final Fantasy VI
Round 9. Final Fantasy XIV
Round 10. Chrono Trigger

Round Four Winners
Match 1. Final Fantasy Tactics
Match 2. Xenogears
Match 3. Mass Effect 2
Match 4. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Match 5. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Round Five Winners
Match 1. Final Fantasy Tactics
Match 2. Mass Effect 2
Match 3. Persona 3 FES
Match 4. Chrono Trigger

Semifinals Winners
Match 1. Final Fantasy Tactics
Match 2. Chrono Trigger

Well I at least have three sets of noms. :D

We're up to five sets of nominations. I'm happy we're getting a decent spread.

Okay, so the new thing I want to do for this contest is that I'm thinking that instead of just having games go head to head, I'm going to add a third category where the games compete based a specific element instead of a simple head to head popularity contest. So for example:

Game 1 vs Game 2 + Category Music

So the rounds will be based purely on how these games match up based on the category. Similar to something I did a previous contest. The categories would be:

Plot
Characters
Villain
Music
Battle System
Side Content
Art Direction

So when the brackets are made, I'll randomize who goes up against who and then randomize those brackets with one of the categories. Does this sound like a plan for everyone?

Sounds interesting! Though I do imagine this might leave several games severely disadvantaged since they may not be playing to their strength, but the randomness would definitely spice things up

Yeah, definitely sounds more interesting than a plain popularity contest. Would make me think about my answers more rather than just picking the game I nominated in the first place :p

I dig it.

Sadly I still have only five sets of nominations, so I may have add to the list just so this contest will last longer. :lol:

I can send in a bit more myself, if you’d like :D

If I don't get more noms in the next four days, I may ask everyone to suggest five more.

Okay, so it doesn't look like I'm going to get any more noms, so anyone who has nominated already can nom an additional five games to me.

I submitted again. I did one I didn't last time cause I figured everyone nominated it. And a couple I wasn't sure if fit the bill of RPG.

Well I rounded out the listing since we had an odd number and instead of noming what I love, since a lot of you covered it, I made my noms more interesting titles that don't get a lot of lip service. I have about 70 entries. So I may double some of these up just to save me some time.

As usual, I'm more amused by what didn't get nominated as I really thought four entries would be a shoe in for this, but not a single person nominated any of them. I chose not to throw them in because all four are disgustingly popular anyway. Just shows how off beat EoFF really is.

Now I'm curious too. There were still a few I didn't nominate cause I figured someone else would.

Actually there were five I was expecting though the fifth one is more of a franchise that usually gets nommed in these contests but is strangely absent. I can spill the beans if people are interested or you can wait until I get the first round finished to see for your selves. :shifty:

Yea, what didn't get through? Xeno?

Clues:

1. I'm a popular Nintendo franchise, if not the most popular.
2. I had my name changed to fit into a franchise despite being an original game.
3. I'm often lauded as the best entry in my niche franchise made by a company that doesn't specialize in RPGs.
4. My team quit the franchise after I was made.
5. I'm the most well known JRPG of all time.

So FFVII didn’t make the Thunderdome

Yep.

Interesting

1 sounds like Mario, so probably Super Mario RPG (even if I think the first two Paper Mario games were better than Mario RPG :p )

Then again, it could also be Pokemon.

It was Pokemon. The other three were Xenoblade Chronicles, Suikoden II, and Persona 5.

Anyway, I'm giving a update on this. I've had a serious personal issue pop up in the last 24 hours, so I may need to postpone this for a bit until I can get things sorted. I'm really sorry. Just a lots happened and my heart is just not up to doing this right now. I'm sorry.

Attachment 77197

Dude, it’s absolutely fine. Take care of yourself and let’s get this started whenever you’re ready ;)

Oops. If I had done this I would have voted in FFVII but I was trying to narrow down the bottom of my list and also mognet is annoying to me.

Okay, I'm feeling a little more up to actually doing this now. I'll start it up by Saturday of this week. I will also accept any new noms from people between now and then. Just mognet me your choices, which will be ten since I upped the number.

Very exciting! :hyper:

Guess I should vote in FF7 then.

We have 80 entries total and the first round is up. You have 48 hours to vote.

Round 1: Category Music - Final Fantasy VIII vs. Bravely Default

Oops. Forgot to do this again. I really only have myself to blame at this point.

Next round is up:

Which game has the better gameplay? 48 hours to vote.

Final Fantasy XIII vs. Ys: Oath of Felghana

Match 3 is up! This one is focused on plot. Match 1 will end in an hour.

Ao no Kiseki vs. Shin Megami Tensei IV

I spaced putting up the next round last night, so you get two today!

Round 1 Match 4: Star Ocean The Second Story vs. Xenoblade Chronicles X

Round 1 Match 5 : Final Fantasy IX vs. Final Fantasy Tactics

Are the categories going to be consistent between rounds or what? Like will Ys still be rate on battle system next time or could it be something completely different? Also, your terminology of "round" and "match," seems to have changed as you've been doing this.

It will be something different. I use an RNG app to pick the category for the round. It was just weird luck that we've already gotten repeats. If I get either music or story for the next one, I'll re-roll just for the sake of variety.

Looking at the overall round 1 pairings, and seeing how voting is going. This first round is going to see some major upsets unless the category element saves the sacred cows. :lol:

Well, most of the "sacred cows" that I can think of (not sure I know every one here) are pretty good in all categories. So unless you have them up against a phenom in a particular category, I don't generally see them losing to a dark horse.

It really comes down who is voting. I feel Match 4 would have been a more even fight if the category was gameplay since that is SO2's strong point, but on the flip side, looking at the people who voted so far in that category, I think only two of them have actually played SO2, so even that wouldn't have saved it. That's kind of the issue here as well. A lot of "old school" titles that were nominated came from three people, and of those three, only one of them is actually voting. :lol:

My vote is going to be the tie breaker, so I'm abstaining for the most part, though I only see a handful of entries in the first round may end in a tie.

I just haven't played either game. However, if it were gameplay I would have voted for SO2, because I have played part of a Xenoblade game and know it's gameplay enough to know I detest it. Meanwhile I'm under the impression that SO2 gameplay is pretty similar to the early Tales games, which I like.

Can't speak for others of course but yeah even with my absolute favorite games, I can think of elements where other games have the upper hand. If match 3 had been gameplay I'd have absolutely voted SMT4 for example :p

I'm not saying I think my absolute favorite games are the best in every category. I'm saying I think they're all good enough in each category that it wouldn't be just any game to unseat them. It would have to be a game that's top of its class in that category, which with random category selection seems like it won't happen too often.

Match 6 and 7 are up. I'm going to double these up cause Round 1 will take forever otherwise.

Match 6: Hyperdimenion Neptunia Victory vs. Xenoblade Chronicles 2

Match 7: Final Fantasy Tactics Advance vs. The World Ends with You

This is the first round of a game I haven't played. Haven't played XC2.

Next matches are up!

Match 8: Trails of Cold Steel IV vs. Dark Souls ~ Gameplay
Match 9: Legend of Dragoon vs. Final Fantasy XIII-2 ~ Side content
Match 10: Dark Souls 3 vs. Trails of the Cold Steel ~ Plot

I can barely vote in any of those :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

I can barely vote in any of those :p

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Don't worry, I've got thirty more where they came from. You're bound to have at least five you can actually vote for. ;)

The next matches are up!

Match 11: .hack://GU vs. Dragon Quest VIII ~ Best Characters
Match 12: Brave Fencer Musashi vs. Nier Automata ~ Sidequests/content
Match 13: Star Wars: The Old Republic vs. Xenogears ~ Gameplay

The next set of matches are up:

Match 14: Xenosaga Episode 1 vs. Planescape Torment ~ Art Direction
Match 15: Final Fantasy X vs. Bloodborne ~ Music
Match 16: Trials of Mana vs. Romancing SaGa 2 ~ Plot

Sorry, I had a long day. No new entries today (10/5/2020)

Next set of matches are up:

Match 17: Deus Ex vs. Mass Effect 2 ~ Gameplay
Match 18: Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter vs. Mass Effect ~ Villains
Match 19: Final Fantasy V vs. Ys VII ~ Characters

I think in the 19 matchups so far there have only been 2 where I actually played both games. You guys are nerds!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

I think in the 19 matchups so far there have only been 2 where I actually played both games. You guys are nerds!

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Yeah, I haven't played both in many matches but I'm not above voting in instances where I've played at least one of the games.

Next set of matches are up!

Match 20: Shadow Hearts 2 vs. Ys VIII ~ Art Direction
Match 21: Suikoden II vs. Dragon Quest V ~ Gameplay
Match 22: Final Fantasy VII vs. Trails of Cold Steel 2 ~ Music

The next set is up!

Match 23: Tales of the Abyss vs. The Witcher 3 ~ Art Direction
Match 24: Baldur's Gate II vs. Lunar: Silver Star Story ~ Music
Match 25: Vagrant Story vs. Dragon Age Origins ~ Characters

Next set of matches are up!

Match 26: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age vs. Ar nosurge ~ Gameplay
Match 27: Suikoden V vs. Odin Sphere ~ Characters
Match 28: Ar Tonelico vs. Persona 3 FES ~ Gameplay

Next set is up!

Match 29: Code Vein vs. Wild Arms ~ Characters
Match 30: Suikoden vs. Final Fantasy IV ~ Side content
Match 31: Romancing SaGa 3 vs. Trails of Cold Steel III ~ Story

Next set is up!

Match 32: Final Fantasy VI vs. Fallout New Vegas ~ Villains
Match 33: Secret of Mana vs. Digimon Cyber Sleuth ~ Music
Match 34: Suikoden III vs. Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn ~ Plot

Next set are up!

Match 35: Pillars of Eternity vs. Persona 2 ~ Villains
Match 36: Shin Megami Tensei III: Nocturne vs. The Outerworlds ~ Art Direction
Match 37: Chrono Trigger vs. Breath of Fire III ~ Side Content

The next set will be the final set for Round 1. How has the tournament going for you? Which one was the biggest upset or you? What RPGs could you not believe didn't make it in? What entries surprised you the most for showing up? How has the format been working for you?

I'm quite upset about Suikoden III and Suikoden V. Also that Xenoblade is advancing period. The format keeps things interesting, but the randomness sometimes makes it feel like it isn't playing to both or even either game's strengths.

Yeah but that's the point of the randomness. Very few games are great in every field and some games may only have one strength to their name. So the randomness helps keep titles that probably would have never made it past the first round a chance, while also keeping things interesting by taking out a few sacred cows on the way. I love FFVI to death, but I have a feeling that if gameplay had been the category it would have been a tighter race.

Round 2 is looking to have some serious match ups as well.

Disappointed but not surprised about Final Fantasy XIII losing, even in the category I consider to be one of its greatest strengths. I know I'm in a tiny minority on that one.

I am a bit surprised about XIII-2 winning, got lucky with the match up and the category.

It's too bad that Nier: Automata didn't get farther, but side content isn't its greatest strength, so it's understandable.

It's also kind of a bummer that The Old Republic got knocked out so soon, but I don't know how anybody could vote for it in the gameplay category. I even nominated it and I couldn't vote for it, not for its gameplay.

I was pretty surprised to see Ar nosurge show up at all. I enjoyed it a bit, but imo it's pretty average in every category, except maaaaaybe in music. The music's pretty good. I'd be interested to know who nominated it, and what your reasoning is.

Dragon Age: Origins is the biggest upset for me. That cast is sooooo good, one of the best in video games. If Vagrant Story really has a better cast than Dragon Age: Origins, I need to play it ASAP.

Mostly I'm just surprised at how many of these games I haven't played. I gotta play more RPGs. That's my number one takeaway so far.

Without the randomness it'd be just another popularity contest, which grows stale and predictable fast on a small forum like this :p

Well, partially it still is a popularity contest, but at least things are changed up a little bit. I wish there was more discussion among the people who vote though, i'm looking at you all you non-posting voters. :p

As for Ar nosurge, I was the one who nominated that, it was one of my top 10 games in the last decade because of its story, characters, music and how they're interwoven, plus I liked the gameplay. Just..y'know, not as much as the gameplay of XII, which is why I voted against it. ;)

The last batch of matches!

Match 38: Mario and Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story vs. Dragon Age 2 ~ Gameplay
Match 39: Dragon Age Inquisition vs. Tales of Xilia ~ Characters
Match 40: Lufia 2: Rise of the Sinistrals vs. Undertale ~ Music

Well that's every game that made it in here. Any games you're surprised you didn't see? Which games that made it through surprised you the most?

Don't remember any games in particular being notably absent, though I might just be failing to remember. A couple painful eliminations already of course, but it's to be expected, and the random nature of the matchups kinda makes it inevitable that a lot of games are going to be caught at their worst points.

I guess Final Fantasy X-2 didn't make it in, nor did Ys Origin. Though tbh I forget if even I nominated them. Kudos to my fellow Falcom nominators though, even if I don't expect their games to make it too far in the long run.

... wait, am I crazy or did Persona 4 and 5 not make it in either? Huh.

Even though I know there are people who liked the game, I was surprised someone used one of their 5-10 nominations for Breath of Fire 5. And then it even got lucky in its category and opponent :p

Also, this wouldn't have changed the result of the match, but I noticed Ar Tonelico 1 was in and not 2, though my nomination was for 2. I figured someone else (surprisingly) nominated the first but now that all the games have been revealed i guess it was a mix-up because of the titles of the games :D

But like I said, it would still have lost to P3 anyway.

I mean, BoFV has always been a great game. Some blind people just failed to appreciate it ;)

How the heck did a million Dragon Age games get in here and no P4 or P5? Well, I guess it's my fault for forgetting to nominate.

Yeah, I know I’ve personally limited myself to one per series. That said, I wouldn’t nominate either because one I haven’t played (5) and one I really don’t think deserves to be here (4) :p

Also, I totally blame Murd for all those Dragon Age games on there. He’s the one always giving JRPGs the side eye for some reason. You know. On a Final Fantasy fansite :stare:

I don't mean I forgot to nominate P4 and P5. I definitely would have nominated them if I had remembered to do nominations at all. Fortunately, those seem to be the only two games of those I would have nominated that didn't make it anyway.

I was going to stick to one nomination per series when it was 5 nominations per person, but upped it to 2 per series when it increased to 10..and then for my 10th nomination cheated and nominated a 3rd for one series :p

But I wouldn't have nominated Persona anyway, they're great games but there would've been others I'd have nominated before them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarZidane

Also, this wouldn't have changed the result of the match, but I noticed Ar Tonelico 1 was in and not 2, though my nomination was for 2. I figured someone else (surprisingly) nominated the first but now that all the games have been revealed i guess it was a mix-up because of the titles of the games :D

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Yeah sorry about that. When I was making the list I forgot the 2 somehow. ^^;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Karifean

I guess Final Fantasy X-2 didn't make it in, nor did Ys Origin. Though tbh I forget if even I nominated them. Kudos to my fellow Falcom nominators though, even if I don't expect their games to make it too far in the long run.

... wait, am I crazy or did Persona 4 and 5 not make it in either? Huh.

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Yeah, I was pretty surprised you didn't nom X-2. You nominated a few FFs, just not that one.

Persona 5 did throw me off. Though I figure it was because some people were tired of hearing about it. Same with P4 which was also badly milked. Persona 3 was nommed by two different people, and Persona 2 was my nomination. In fact a few of the older titles were my doing because I wanted the list to expand beyond a few flagship series. So you can blame me for a lot of the SNES/PSX RPGs that made this list. :lol:

I feel the two biggest surprises for me was seeing Romancing SaGa 2 and Brave Fencer Musashi advance to round 2. Was expecting both of them to lose badly in their first round. RS2 especially threw me off considering this forums preference for strong character driven RPG story telling.

The biggest personal upset for me is still Bloodborne. Granted I knew it was doomed the second I saw it was pitted against FFX, but I do still feel that it was robbed. X's OST isn't one of the strongest outside of a few stellar tracks whereas I feel Bloodborne's score is actually one of the best From Software has made.

Looking at the Round 2 pairings, I've got some personal darlings pitted up against each other so the second round will be just as heartbreaking. :cry:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Also, I totally blame Murd for all those Dragon Age games on there. He’s the one always giving JRPGs the side eye for some reason. You know. On a Final Fantasy fansite :stare:

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Actually, that was me! I love JRPGs, but I also love Dragon Age.

I'm going to wait until the final match is over before we start round 2. I'm thinking for the second round to assign two categories per match. So there will be two criteria for the match-ups. The other thing I am toying with is also scrambling the entries so instead of looking at the Round 1 winners on the first point and figuring out who is up against what, it would be more interesting to match them up through RNG again to see if we can't get some more interesting results. Do these sound like good ideas?

I’m all for the randomness, but how exactly would two categories work?

Basically, if you got Music and Gameplay, you would base your answer on which of the two has the best of both. I was thing that with each round we would add another category so by the final round it would fall into a which game has the best of all the traits.

Except it wouldn't really be that anyway, because you may have eliminated the game that has the best of all traits in an earlier round. I mean once you include two or more categories, it's not like the winner is always going to be chosen for both categories. It can't be that there's always a case where one game is better than the other in both categories. Sometimes it will just be that game 1 is way better than game 2 in category A, while game 2 is only a little better than game 1 in category B. So even the game that has "the best of all traits" isn't necessarily better than all other games in every category and, therefore, it could be eliminated early.

Yes but it does give the voters more weight on the issues. Maybe Game A has a better battles system than Game B, but Game B has better music, and for some voters that may be more important to them.

I may take a few days to start up round 2, I'm still hoping to hear some other's opinion on this idea. If I get too much push back, we'll just continue as we have.

With that said, I do have one question for everyone: What entry do you wish wasn't eliminated in Round 1? This is important, so please make your choice in this thread. *hint hint* :shifty:

Also, is there a category you want to eliminate?

Yes, there is. Optional content, because I simply don't value it as a category. Optional content can be good or bad, but it doesn't become better simply by virtue of being optional. So I really hate for a game that doesn't have much optional content to get knocked out by a game that does, when ultimately what really matters is the content, not whether it's optional or not.

I wish either Baldur’s Gate or Planescape: Torment didn’t get eliminated. And I’m fine with all the categories

For me it's FFVIII. But Suikoden V or Suikoden III are up there too.

I like the idea of doing two categories per round. So far, the categories have been pretty successful at getting me to vote against my own nominations. Having two categories should make things even more interesting.

Dragon Age: Origins is the one I wish hadn't been eliminated.

All of the categories are great, don't get rid of any.

I'm fine with all the categories. As for which entry I wish hadn't been eliminated..probably Ar Tonelico (2) :p

Speaking of which, I am utterly shocked that all 3 of my Trails nominations got through the round.

Don't lie. We all know you did all 4 Trails of Cold Steel noms. :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Golbez

Don't lie. We all know you did all 4 Trails of Cold Steel noms. :P

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Nope, he only nommed three of the five Trails titles on the list.

There were five?!

There were indeed, the four Cold Steel games and Ao no Kiseki (Trails to Azure). I didn't nominate Cold Steel 1 and 2, though I'm pretty sure I know who did ;)

Okay, so I'm starting Round 2 soon!

The people have spoken so I will not randomize the titles, but I am going to go by two categories. I'm also keeping all categories. I also feel I should explain some of these and I'm rebranding one category.

Categories are:
Plot - The main story
Characters - the cast of characters in the game including NPCs
Villains - the antagonists of the story
Music - all that lovely music from battle themes to simply town themes. I'm also including audio design here for those who care.
Gameplay - Battle system, how you interact with the world, minigames
Side Content/Replay value - Does the game have cool things to do besides the main quest? How about good replay value?
Art Direction - How does the game look?

I should have the first matches up by tomorrow.

Replay value is a nice change. It would have changed my vote in the FFIV/Suikoden match-up, but FFIV advanced anyway, so no biggie.

Round 2 begins!

Match 1: Bravely Default vs. Ys Oath in Felghana ~ Characters and Art Direction
Match 2: Ao no Kiseki vs. Xenoblade Chronicles X ~ Gameplay and Villains

Next set of matches are up!

Match 3: Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Xenoblade Chronicles 2 ~ Villains and Replay Value/Side content
Match 4: The World Ends With You vs. Trails of Cold Steel IV ~ Plot and Characters

Next set of matches are up!

Match 5: Final Fantasy XIII-2 vs. Trails of Cold Steel ~ Music and Villains
Match 6: Dragon Quest VIII vs. Brave Fencer Musashi ~ Cast and Side Content

Next set of matches are up:

Match 7: Xenogears vs. Xenosaga Episode 1 ~ Music and Villains
Match 8: Final Fantasy X vs. Romancing SaGa 2 ~ Side content and Art direction

Next rounds are up.

Match 9: Mass Effect 2 vs. Breath of Fire V ~ Plot and Villains
Match 10: Final Fantasy V vs. Shadow Hearts 2 ~ Music and Gameplay

Next matches are up!

Match 11: Suikoden II vs. Final Fantasy VII ~ Gameplay and Replay Value.Side Content
Match 12: The Witcher 3 vs. Baldur's Gate II ~ Characters and Art Direction

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Next matches are up!

Match 11: Suikoden II vs. Final Fantasy VII ~ Gameplay and Replay Value.Side Content

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Whhhhhhyyyyyyy?!!!!!!!!!!

That's just how the list landed.

Well that was the finals in my headcanon.

I'm thinking the finals are going to be something from Square-Enix versus something from Falcom personally.

Next set of matches are up!

Match 13: Vagrant Story vs. Final Fantasy XII ~ Villains and Gameplay
Match 14: Odin Sphere vs. Persona 3 ~ Replay Value and Gameplay

Next matches are up!

Match 15: Wild Arms vs. Final Fantasy IV ~ Music and Villains
Match 16: Trails of Cold Steel III vs. Final Fantasy VI ~ Plot and Characters

Next matches are up!

Match 17: Secret of Mana vs. Final Fantasy XIV ~ Plot and Villains
Match 18: Persona 2 vs. Shin Megami Tensei III ~ Characters and Side Content/Replay Value

The final matches for Round 2 are up!

Match 19: Chrono Trigger vs. Mario and Luigi Bowser's Inside Story ~ Side Content/Replay Value and Villains
Match 20: Tales of Xillia vs. Undertale ~ Gameplay and Art Direction

Round 2 ill be coming to a close shortly. What has been the biggest surprises or upsets so far? Any idea who is going to win it all?

I'm sure it'll be CT or FFVI like it always is. Unless only Karifean and WarZidane vote, and then it will be a Falcom game.

Well one of the two may likely be eliminated before the final. Every round increases the possibility of a bigger upset. I am starting to think this will go with the bias of the forum and be an all Squenix show before long. Looking at the lineup of winners shows this is a fan forum for sure. :lol:

EDITGA: Yeah, of the 20 remaining contestants, only seven of them are not Square-Enix games. Of the entries, I think only 3 of them have a chance of surviving this round, and I expect all three to lose in the following round if they are forced to go up against who I think will win the surrounding rounds.

If you keep increasing the number of categories in each round then the marginal likelihood of an upset on a fan favorite decreases with each passing round. It might be hard to justify voting for a favorite game if the one category selected is its weakest, but with three or more categories it's gonna be pretty easy for everyone to justify just picking their favorite in most matches.

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Originally Posted by Lord Golbez

I'm sure it'll be CT or FFVI like it always is. Unless only Karifean and WarZidane vote, and then it will be a Falcom game.

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I doubt it, there's only two Falcom games left (Ao and Sen no Kiseki), both of which advanced by RNG toss this round, and one of them I haven't played myself. Falcom has not been doing well this contest I'm afraid, and I doubt that'll change now.

I'm pretty sure there's a Trails of Cold Steel game still in this, which might be what you said since I'm unfamiliar with the Japanese titles. I didn't realize it was so low, but I did say if only you and WarZidane vote. I realize the majority are not going for Falcom games. Still there are a number of games still in this competition over which I would vote for ToCS in a bunch of categories, so I wouldn't count them out yet.

I'll start up Round 3 on Monday.

Round 3 begins

Match 1: Bravely Default vs. Ao no Kiseki ~ Plot, Gameplay, and Music
Match 2: Final Fantasy Tactics vs. The World Ends With You ~ Plot, Villains, Side content

Next set of matches are up!

Match 3: Trails of Cold Steel vs. Dragon Quest VIII ~ Plot, Art Direction, and Replay Value
Match 4: Xenogears vs. Final Fantasy X ~ Characters, Gameplay, and Art Direction

Painful matchups indeed.

I'm toying with a fun idea for the next round. :shifty:

Next matches are up!

Match 5: Mass Effect 2 vs. Final Fantasy V ~ Plot, Characters, Art Direction
Match 6: Final Fantasy VII vs. The Witcher 3 ~ Plot, Villain, Side Content/Replay Value

Next set of matches are up!

Match 7: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age vs. Persona 3: FES ~ Characters, Music, and Replay Value/Side Content
Match 8: Final Fantasy IV vs. Final Fantasy VI ~ Plot, Side Content/Replay Value, and Characters

Last matches for Round 3.

Match 9: Final Fantasy XIV vs. Shin Megami Tensei III ~ Music, Villains, Side Content/Replay Value
Match 10: Chrono Trigger vs. Undertale ~ Plot, Villains, and Music

Biggest letdown of the round was FFVII losing.
Biggest surprise of the round was Fynn not voting for FFXII.

That's the beauty of the category system. It gives some games a fighting chance and brings down some games that have popularity powers. The real battle for the death will be in Round 5, because I'm expecting two SNES darlings to go toe to toe for the right to the finals.

I'm still waiting for the final round results to come in, but I'm adding two new elements for the next round. The first thing is I want you to give me a game that has already lost in a previous round. If one game gets a lot of votes, then it will come into the next round as a wild card. If I get different games for each person who participates, then I'll let RNG decide who is the wild card. Wait until the last matches are up in case you want to vote for one of those entries. So don't bother nominating until tomorrow. You'll have 24 hours from the end of the last matches to nom.

The next element will be revealed only after the wild card has been determined.

Why not just put in 3 wild cards so the matches can remain one on one?

I need to stop posting when I'm sleep deprived. ^^;

Ignore my previous post. :shifty:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Golbez

Biggest letdown of the round was FFVII losing.
Biggest surprise of the round was Fynn not voting for FFXII.

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I mean, if you knew me long enough you’d know I love both FFXII and P3 to death and making me choose between them was downright sadistic

No letdown for me this round, all the games I voted for got through except P3 (and maybe FFXIV if someone manages to flip that. STOP THE COUNT!), and that match was a toss-up anyway :p

FFVII losing was the biggest (pleasant) surprise to be sure ;)

Okay, with Round 3 coming to a close, I'm doing something different for the following rounds, but I'll need you to participate for this one.

Of the ten winners, which of the seven categories would you say is their biggest weakness and which one is their biggest strength?

Round 3 Winners:

Round 1. Ao no Kiseki
Round 2. Final Fantasy Tactics
Round 3. Trails of Cold Steel
Round 4. Xenogears
Round 5. Mass Effect 2
Round 6. The Witcher 3
Round 7. Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Round 8. Final Fantasy VI
Round 9. Final Fantasy XIV
Round 10. Chrono Trigger

Categories:

Plot - The main story
Characters - the cast of characters in the game including NPCs
Villains - the antagonists of the story big and small
Music - all that lovely music from battle themes to simply town themes. I'm also including audio design here for those who care.
Gameplay - Battle system, how you interact with the world, minigames
Side Content/Replay value - Does the game have cool things to do besides the main quest? How about good replay value?
Art Direction - How does the game look? Not just graphics, but art design and uniqueness

Feel free to post in this thread because there may be some debate.

I’ll only answer those that I know.

FFT
Strength: story
Weakness: art direction (though this is reaching as I feel that it actually nails down all elements. I’m using the PSP version slowdown to justify this)

Xenogears
Strength: Villains
Weakness: Gameplay

Witcher 3
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Villains

FFXII
Strength: Gameplay
Weakness: like with FFT, I feel all elements are super strong, so let’s just go with villains for the sake of picking something

FFVI
Strength: Music
Weakness: Gameplay

Chrono Trigger
Strength: Side content
Weakness: Art direction (see FFT and FFXII)

Trails of Cold Steel
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Art Direction

Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Strength: Side Content / Replay Value
Weakness: Characters

Final Fantasy VI
Strength: Villains
Weakness: Gameplay

Chrono Trigger
Strength: Plot
Weakness: Side Content / Replay Value

Man, all the other games I played all already eliminated huh. Oh well, it is what it is. Also Chrono Trigger was the hardest to pick a weakness for, it's a real masterpiece in a full package. Cold Steel was tough too but went with Art Direction if only by process of elimination (though I appreciate how expressive the models are).

Mass Effect 2
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Music

The Witcher III
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Plot

Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Strength: Gameplay
Weakness: Characters

Final Fantasy VI
Strength: Music
Weakness: Villains

Final Fantasy XIV
Strength: Music
Weakness: Gameplay

For some of these, picking the biggest strength or weakness is actually kinda tough, but here goes:

Ao no Kiseki
Strength: Plot
Weakness: Art direction

Trails of Cold Steel
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Art direction

Xenogears
Strength: Plot
Weakness: Side content/replay value

Mass Effect 2
Strength: Characters
Weakness: Villains

The Witcher 3
Strength: Side content/replay value
Weakness: Villains

Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age
Strength: Gameplay
Weakness: Characters

Final Fantasy VI
Strength: Music
Weakness: Villains

Final Fantasy XIV
Strength: Side content/replay value
Weakness: Art direction

Chrono Trigger
Strength: Music
Weakness: Gameplay

No comment on FFT since i can't name its biggest strength..though it's gameplay would certainly be its biggest weakness to me, it's what stopped me from ever playing it much :p

Ao no Kiseki - Don't know

FFT
Strength - Plot
Weakness - Art direction or maybe replay value (there's lots of different things to try but I tend to find the grind gets a bit much on replay.

Trails of Cold Steel
Strength - Characters
Weakness - Art direction or Gameplay (I'm not a huge fan of the battle system)

Xenogears
Strength - Plot
Weakness - Side Content

Witcher 3
Strength - Probably side content
Weakness - Gameplay (it's why I stopped early, mostly interface issues, but still)

Mass Effect 2 - Don't know

FFXII
Strength - Nothing. Fine, music or art direction
Weakness - Characters

FFVI
Strength - It's almost all strengths. Nah, I'm changing this to Music for the simple reason that it's the one category it definitely beats all other games on this list for me.
Weakness - Really, none, but maybe gameplay due to espers.

FFXIV - Don't know

Chrono Trigger
Strength - Side Content/Replay Value (S class in this category)
Weakness - Art direction.

I'm also curious to see who they think will be in the final round?

I expect FFVI in the final. I would've said I also expect its opponent to be Chrono Trigger but you said you expect two SNES games to go against each other in round 5, so :p

FFVI is almost definite. CT is likely but I could also see FFXII or some of the other options making it. Falcom games are unlikely but there are enough games remaining that I would choose the Falcom games over that it's at least plausible with some RNG luck (I'm assuming a likely though not guaranteed 3-3 tie in these instances).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarZidane

I expect FFVI in the final. I would've said I also expect its opponent to be Chrono Trigger but you said you expect two SNES games to go against each other in round 5, so :p

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I was wrong on that front. Lol

Actually my guess is this will end with FFTactics vs. Chrono Trigger.

Round 4 is here!

Match 1: Ao no Kiseki vs. Final Fantasy Tactics ~ Weakness: Art Direction
Match 2: Trails of Cold Steel vs. Xenogears ~ Strength: Plot and Characters

Next match is up!

Match 3: Mass Effect 2 vs. The Witcher 3 ~ Characters

You may hate me a bit for this one. ;)

Match 4: Final Fantasy XII: TZA vs. Final Fantasy VI ~ Gameplay
Match 5: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR vs. Chrono Trigger ~ Art Direction

This round has definitely been more amusing than I thought it would be. :mwahaha:

Okay, so I already spoiled the fact I was going to do this, but I hate the fact we have an odd number for the next round, so I'm going to let you vote to bring back three entries that have already lost. One will go up against FFXIV and the last two will go against each other.

You can each nominate three entries as wild cards. You have 24 hours to nominate your three. The three entries with the most nominationss will automatically get in. If there are too many entries with the same votes, then they go to RNG. Single nominations are automatically disqualified unless there no entry gets a second nomination, then RNG will determine who gets in. You are allowed to change your nominations within the 24 hour period.

With these rules, I would suggest that people also state why their nominations deserve a second chance. If you can convince people to change their nominations to yours, you have a higher chance to get them back in. I will also be putting forth my own nominations as well. :wcanoe:

Oh, easy

Chrono Trigger
FFVI
Witcher III

FFVII
Suikoden II
Persona 3

FFVI
Chrono Trigger

^ easy choices, my favorite two games of all time.

For number 3, I'm going with Final Fantasy IX, which got handed an absolutely devastating matchup in Round 1, going up against FFT in the story category. That's as brutal as it gets. It deserves a second chance!

You have less than two and a half hours to vote on which games you want to see come back. ;)

Looks like two choices are pretty clear then and you'll probably RNG the last.

So FFVI and Chrono Trigger get an extra life. The final game to be resurrected is... Persona 3.

Persona 3 will be going up against FFXIV while FFVI and CT will be going up against each other in the next round.

Now I ask everyone to list Persona 3's strength and weakness.

Strength: characters
Weakness: gameplay

I actually think Persona 3's strength is gameplay and/or side content.

Weakness.....I don't know, maybe villains, though it has some pretty good villains too. Usually art direction would be my go to when I can't think of a weakness, but I can't in good conscience choose that for P3.

If you're waiting for a tiebreaker, WK, I think it's probably not coming. You'll just have to decide or use RNG.

Yeah, I'll try to be the tie breaker and get this started again tomorrow. My issue is that my own choices for P3 are not quite the same as the ones put forth either.

Well I can't exactly break the tie but...

Strength: Music
Weakness: Villains

You broke the tie on weakness at least.

Okay, next Round is up! Only two more rounds to go!

Match 1: Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Xenogears ~ Story
Match 2. Mass Effect 2 vs. Final Fantasy XII: TZA ~ Gameplay and Characters

Isn't this the quarterfinals?

You are correct, I think I just want to end this sooner. :shifty:

Definitely surprised by how well Mass Effect 2 is doing in this competition. I don't recall it ever really coming up and certainly not advancing too far in previous tournaments and now it's in the top 4 and hasn't been eliminated yet ( unlike at least one member of the still undecided top 4).

I know, it’s disgusting

That's how I feel about FFXII every time. :P. A lot of times I haven't even been voting against Mass Effect because it hasn't been up against something I feel strongly about. That could still be true next round if FFXIV wins this round and goes up against Mass Effect 2 next.

Actually, looking back I'm not sure I voted in a single Mass Effect 2 match this entire competition. It's managed to escape my wrath by consistently being paired with games I either also didn't play or just don't care for too much.

I'm now interested in seeing what category will be chosen for the FFVI and CT match. I'd choose FFVI for 5 of the categories and CT for only 2, so it all comes down to category choice, but FFVI is favored for me.

Next rounds are up.

Match 3: Final Fantasy XIV: ARR vs. Persona 3:FES ~ Villains and Art Direction
Match 4: Final Fantasy VI vs. Chrono Trigger ~ Replay Value and Music

Sorry this keeps stalling. I just got back from the holiday with relatives and I have some things I need to sort out for work. But I will get this back up and running by either tomorrow or Monday.

At any rate, it's interesting that FFT is the only representative of FF in the final four. Looks like we got a nice mix of games and Mass Effect for the semi-finals.

Semifinals are up:

Match 1: Final Fantasy Tactics vs. Mass Effect 2 ~ Strength and Weak Battle Story, Characters, Art Direction, and Music!
Match 2: Persona 3 vs. Chrono Trigger ~ Strength and Weak Battle Replay Value/Side Content, Art Direction and Villains!

We now have our two finalist.

Expect the final round to pop up either tomorrow or before the weekend.

Despite the entries all being very diverse, the finalists are predictable. If not disappointingly so ;)

Says the guy who voted for all the predictable entries ;)

That said, I don't see it as disappointing. It's only natural that you can predict the tastes of people you hang out with on the internet a lot. Especially when the subject is RPGs, on an RPG forum. :p

Main issue with these is always with games I haven't played in the end. Which is why I'll probably sit out the finale as well. We had some fun matches though, and I think the shakeup of categories was a good idea. Thanks Wolf.

I wouldn't have predicted FFT in the final. Top 5, sure. But there were many more conventionally popular games that didn't make it.

Would you have preferred a final of Trials of Cold Steel 2 vs. [Japanese name I can't pronounce], Fynn?

Oh I’m not complaining at all. Like Wooz said, I voted for both of them in the semifinals. I was just kinda hoping I would maybe be surprised a bit ;) At least it’s not FFVII winning by a landslide this time lol!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WarZidane

Says the guy who voted for all the predictable entries ;)

That said, I don't see it as disappointing. It's only natural that you can predict the tastes of people you hang out with on the internet a lot. Especially when the subject is RPGs, on an RPG forum. :p

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Yeah, but Chrono Trigger isn't just predictable on EoFF. It's predictable across the internet. Which is why, despite it being probably near though maybe not quite on my top 10 of all time, I still consider it to be a very overrated game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fynn

Oh I’m not complaining at all. Like Wooz said, I voted for both of them in the semifinals. I was just kinda hoping I would maybe be surprised a bit ;) At least it’s not FFVII winning by a landslide this time lol!

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That never happened. At least not since I've been here. I feel like I'm constantly being gaslighted about how FF7 is received here based on forum makeup of 10 years ago.

There was this huge Best FF tournament and of course VII won. I think the final round was between it and IX. You’re still just a newbie Golbez. Your experience is sadly not universal :cry:

Yeah you have to go back a few years, but FFVII won almost every contest back in the day.

I missed the Golden Age. :p

The Golden Age is whatever it is in your heart, Golby.

This was just 5 years ago! Wasn't even some far flung time in the past.

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread....-FFVII-vs-FFIX

FF7 won by 9 votes with 27 votes. Which is still a decent lead.

In reality of course Final Fantasy 7 was at best the third best game in its own franchise from the moment of its release but it certainly captured some imaginations

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spuuky

In reality of course Final Fantasy 7 was at best the third best game in its own franchise from the moment of its release but it certainly captured some imaginations

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Don’t think I’ve ever seen you so generous. Then again, your DQ takes have been catastrophically bad so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shauna

This was just 5 years ago! Wasn't even some far flung time in the past.

http://home.eyesonff.com/showthread....-FFVII-vs-FFIX

FF7 won by 9 votes with 27 votes. Which is still a decent lead.

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I think you forgot to adjust for 2020, which was 5 years long.

Hey I'm just excited Tactics made it the finals. It certainly has some loud fans on this forum but always seems to fall into the bridesmaid category when it shows up to popularity contests on this forum.

Final match is up.

This is probably going to come down to the way Fynn votes (no pressure).

Edit:. Nevermind. I was banking on WarZidane's dislike of CT. Turns out he dislikes FFT way more.

Well looks like I wouldn’t change much anyway since I was too late to vote :monster:

Yep, after a months of contests and going through 80 contestants, EoFF's current RPG Thunderdome champion is:

Chrono Trigger!

Attachment 77436

Nice comeback, considering it got eliminated earlier ;) Still pretty happy with this result! Not surprised at all, but still satisfied :D

As deserved as it was a predictable favorite. Congrats to a true timeless (ha ha) classic.

Way too predictable. As disappointing as it was unsurprising. Not at all a bad game, but firmly.cemented as a highly overrated game. And ultimately all the categories and stuff meant nothing,because didn't CT win the last one of these too?

It did, but it will always have an asterisk on this win seeing how it was eliminated in a prior match and only made back in by voting. Still, the game is well beloved, so it's no surprise it would dominate a lot regardless of the category system.

I ended up liking the category system because it did keep the roster more interesting and competitive in the early stages. As usual, the major factor of the tournament was recognition. Some games survived longer than they probably would have thanks to the high amount of niche support on this forum, while some others had the opposite issue and lost quickly because only two people had played the game at most. Lots of rounds has abstentions which allowed a few games to last longer or go out faster than I anticipated so I'm pretty content with the way things turned out. Had it been a straight popularity contest, I feel some games would have excelled longer (probably a lot of the Final Fantasy series) while a lot of niche titles would have never made it past the second round. I also found it amusing how often Western games seemed to always wind up going head to head with each other.

The category system was very cool and resulted in some unlikely outcomes. Great job running this WK!

I'll admit that one. CT is strong in almost all categories. I don't think it's the strongest in any category, except maybe side content (and even there I narrowly give the win to Persona), but it is strong in nearly all categories, which makes it hard to knock out based on category selection.

And, yes,the category system did lead to some interesting developments throughout, so I'm exaggerating. I'm just disappointed it didn't alter the ultimate outcome. Think what you would feel if FF7 won again. :P. That's probably about how I feel.

Yeah well if CT wasn't let back in due to a Redemption Island-style twist, FFT probably would have walked away with it. This is also not exactly a scientific process if three votes determined the final round. :p

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord Golbez

I'll admit that one. CT is strong in almost all categories. I don't think it's the strongest in any category, except maybe side content (and even there I narrowly give the win to Persona), but it is strong in nearly all categories, which makes it hard to knock out based on category selection.

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Interesting enough, one of the categories I was debating on having would have been one that talked about how well all the elements work together. Like do you feel a game is good in every category in a way where they lift each other up, or do you feel the game has a few great strong points and a few major weaknesses? I ultimately dropped it because I figure it was both too abstract and not something gamers generally look for in a game anyway. Balanced titles like that tend to be more happy accidents than anything, though for myself, it's a quality that separates the good games from the great ones. P3 for me is a game where I don't really feel it excels anywhere except how beautifully all of it's elements work together in harmony. So the category system did hurt it for me in some places.

Yeah, I kind of get what you're saying, but you were probably right to leave that category out. I think it would be very hard to evaluate and probably would only feel.relevant to a few games that stand out in this way.

Another good one for that category (although it doesn't fit for this tournament) is probably Death Stranding.

Yeah I would agree with that. A game that's better as a whole than the sum of it's parts. I actually find this is something many of the mainline FFs are better about as well.