You'd think so!Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
They should really be aware that acne isn't affected by hygiene if they have it.
You'd think so!They should really be aware that acne isn't affected by hygiene if they have it.
Well it really does depend. I personally find that it's my easiest subject too, I'm a writer by trade and therefore it's easy. It's also fun IF I'm given some creative freedom, but often as not I'm asked mind-numbing questions such as Manus gave examples of, like "How does X character feel on page X, paragraph X, provide examples and citations." Give me a break! I knew how the character felt when I read it!
Exactly!
I strongly disagree, I've always loved reading and writing and I'm a guy. What I don't love, is as Manus says, the endless analyzing.
Yeah, your teacher. Some of the best teacher's I've had were English teachers, but I've also had an equal amount that give pointless questions. I doubt Manus' attitude is the problem here as you seem to suggest, since I've always been extremely polite with teachers, but when I became too independent in my ideas, and diverged too far from their narrow-minded vision of what I should think, they told me off.
The Ceej is right, school IS meant to condition one to conform to society's overly specific demands. Of course there will be good teachers like yours' who encourage free thought, but many others have been in the same job for so long they're bitter and grumpy and really don't give a damn about my opinions on literature, in fact, some contest them at every turn and give me nonsense about not answering the question, when I'd just written an essay much longer than required doing just that!
I have to say, I'm a writer by trade too. However I hate being told what I can and cannot read or write about. I had to do Dubliners by James Joyce and I hated it so much I in the end was relieved I had to quit the course.
All the things I really don't like are completely petty and I get over them fast:
- slow drivers on the road
...that's all. I sat here staring at the screen and can't come up with anything that pisses me off. I'm almost always happy and almost always stress free. Sometimes I get stressed but I get over it or it passes.
Damn Neel, you completely changed PG that one time you said everything was temporal.
My teacher is like assistant head of English, so really what she does is right, what all these nasty, groggy teachers do is wrong, I always wonder why people like that bother teaching if they just cannot be bothered; It's not a job you can just 'switch off' from. We are a top set group, though and generally those sets do get more advantages as a teacher trust them to not make up ludicrous assumptions about a book cause they assume that we know our stuff.Yeah, your teacher. Some of the best teacher's I've had were English teachers, but I've also had an equal amount that give pointless questions. I doubt Manus' attitude is the problem here as you seem to suggest, since I've always been extremely polite with teachers, but when I became too independent in my ideas, and diverged too far from their narrow-minded vision of what I should think, they told me off.
Sometimes, though, on some books a teacher (atleast my school anyway) actually know exactly what the author/poet meant, and if you stray too far out then obviously they have to stop you, it is an academic subject at the end of the day.
This is all just opinions though. Most people I know thing I am absolutely stupid and crazy for loving English so much. I just find it so easy, which is why I like it because I struggle in pretty much every other subject. Everything is there in front of you, you don't have to remember much.
Ignorant people annoy me. Don't get me wrong, everyone's ignorant at some point. But people who don't accept it when they're wrong and just roll their eyes. I found out today that my definition of a word wasn't quite accurate, did I ignore the correction and assume myself as a much higher ranking human? No. I said "Hmm...seems my vocabulary needs revising. Cheers." because I'm awesome and can accept when I'm wrong.
Moral is: If you're an ignorant dumbass, no one cares about your views or opinions.
Why should a teacher have to gain trust not to be making "ludicrous assumptions" in the first place? I believe a completely off-topic response to a question, or not answering the question at all, is grounds for marking the answer as 0, but when I was asked for a specific opinion on a specific part of a book and that scene's theme, I'll meet that requirement, but I'm not changing my opinion just because it's considered to be "straying out too far" and I don't think it's fair to be marked 0 with my teacher disagreeing with my opinion. I believe I have a right to my opinions and to express them when asked, and I don't believe it's right for my teacher to give me a 0. I thought the reason books with more and more controversial themes were presented the higher you progress through the grades was to encourage people to become more and more open-minded and draw their own conclusions based on topics perhaps not yet introduced to them. I don't think controversial topics are raised just so I come to a difficult, challenging conclusion in my outline of the theme and my opinion on it only to have my teacher disagree and mark 0. I kept to the requirement, I analyzed the theme as asked, I'm not going to conform to one teacher's personal opinion of "actually knowing exactly what the author/poet meant" because you'll realize that, even with teachers, everyone has their own wildly original idea "of what the author meant." That's as it should be, but any attempt to force students who disagree with the teachers own opinions by taking away all my marks in an outrage.My teacher is like assistant head of English, so really what she does is right, what all these nasty, groggy teachers do is wrong, I always wonder why people like that bother teaching if they just cannot be bothered; It's not a job you can just 'switch off' from. We are a top set group, though and generally those sets do get more advantages as a teacher trust them to not make up ludicrous assumptions about a book cause they assume that we know our stuff.Yeah, your teacher. Some of the best teacher's I've had were English teachers, but I've also had an equal amount that give pointless questions. I doubt Manus' attitude is the problem here as you seem to suggest, since I've always been extremely polite with teachers, but when I became too independent in my ideas, and diverged too far from their narrow-minded vision of what I should think, they told me off.
Sometimes, though, on some books a teacher (atleast my school anyway) actually know exactly what the author/poet meant, and if you stray too far out then obviously they have to stop you, it is an academic subject at the end of the day.
Don't I read to be introduced to issues without being bashed over the head with the author's opinions, making my analysis of his message all to obvious? Your ideas sound like what might be more realistic of a simplistic level of elementary required reading in which the theme was always obvious to me all along, but then, I was never asked my opinion then, merely completely explicit, right or wrong questions "what did X character do on page 70?" It was evident to the teachers that I was far beyond that stage even then, as I showed eagerness to explore the questions more, to state why the character did that and how it influenced the theme of the book,the teachers who even cared a whit about the quality of my work at all, cared about the stories I was writing when they only thought I couldn't even understand the concept of fiction, and was relegated to a diary in which most of my peers wrote a sentence, and I pages of narrative, not just about my day, but with in-depth self-analysis of how it made me feel to boot.
By your arguments, having opinions of a controversial complex theme is irrelevant when everyone should immediately agree the book is summed up by one person's opinion, and reading would be pointless altogether, as it would just be commonly accepted among everyone that one book always leaves the same emotional response and the same affect on learning for everyone, and that every student would automatically conform to that stance or be insane. But still, how can you just know his opinion is right without even reading the book, and I mean really reading the book. There is never any real hidden proof of which side the author is on, since the issue already raises so many different opinions the author feels pressured to remain objective, and readers must come to their own conclusions. He can try to present the tale in such a way that might sway the reader to the side of the conflict he favors, but if he immediately states the side he disagrees with is wrong, he'd immediately lose any credibility as an author of fiction. Nonfiction is for essays, fiction can have themes the author feels very importantly about, but he can't just assume it's an essay and he can act as if all his points are fact and proof of his correct opinion, because he's not in a debate about real life, he's entering a world of his own imagination, that must not be completely defined by how he perceives the world now, or there is no creativity.
Yet somehow you think that when your teacher is asking you to take whatever side your teacher thinks the writer is on, and insists you must "not stray too far" from what they wrongly believe is their definitive interpretation of a controversial issue presented objectively, in fiction, you must agree, or you should fail! Authors often say that their original message in the work was completely disregarded in the curriculum because it was over-analyzed by each teacher to find a way for a right or wrong answer to be based on what should be subjectively viewed in the first place. If you'd believed there might be another, say, worthwhile opinion, so that the entire world didn't all agree on what's right or wrong, maybe the opinion of the writer himself, what he personally felt as the message intended, and his own personal reason for writing the novel, his vision for its creation, was at all relevant, you you could have read it, straight from him, in an interview. But no, why would the writer know what opinion he really has of his work if it conflicts with your teacher's view of right and wrong? :rolleyes2
As long as I'm asked for a specific opinion based on a part of a thematically complex novel, I can't possibly be wrong in my opinion if it's also answers what was asked because I was asked what I thought, and since it's meant, by the author, to be subjectively interpreted, by the reader, the teacher shouldn't deduct marks if he merely disagrees. After all, if I wasn't meant to have my own opinion, why should I gain any inspiration from my own opinions of fictional character, to be inspired to create something different. And they wonder why all the media made is so repetitive and unoriginal, when students can't even feel ... different... about a novel, different enough to want to make their own novel outlining their own opinion that they came to based on other books, when they aren't encouraged. Ironically, many people consume that same rehashed media, because they were trained to have no opinion.
Furthermore, even without consideration to formulating my own free thought, why should I have to over analyze every little detail of a novel when I want to just take the book for what it is, a whole work, not fragmented into many questions picked, usually, from thousands of sentences, or 100s of pages?
By your logic, if you were to write your own novel, I could invalidate your reason for writing it by exposing it to millions of kids who were not to think of it as they chose, because I happened to be an Eng. lit. teacher and said I had the definitive view of the novel, without ever consulting you, and proceeded to force all those children to agree with me, or they'd "stray too far." I could select exactly what tiny segments of the book to highlight, as if I were you, the author, and knew exactly what the key events of the book were to properly highlight the major theme I want to present.
That's all Manus and me are trying to say - we don't believe that's a way to actually formulate your own idea of the novel, but rather systematically remove all enjoyment of the novel through tonnes of endless analyzing while having whatever views seem... different... to be torn to shreds.
I'll bet it's easy, if you can just repeat exactly what your teacher thinks about the novel, he or she will clearly try to convince you, and slightly alter the words. Easy, but you're just being programmed to think the way he is. Either that, or you don't care what he thinks, and go into your next class prepared to completely undermine your previous work's "opinions" if your next teacher feels differently. Either way, hardly of any practical use in learning.
I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong within reason, but there is no right or wrong opinion on a fictional work and never should be. See above comments if you need any further logic than that, it seems Zeldy does.
My successful troll post is successful
there was a picture here
Hypocrites grind my gears.
Holy crap, VTG, you DID just write a novel.
What grinds my gears is the way everything has to have some hidden meanings. Sometimes, when an author writes something, all they meant is what they wrote! But that's not a criticism of teachers so much as the entire art-fag culture surrounding art itself.
QF smurfing T
there was a picture here
Bad grammar...Bad spelling....people who basically satanify(if thats a word) smokers....people who are judgemental....and people who live to be just like others(i know thats judgemental)...hypocrisy is human nature i suppose
The lance strikes when it sees fit
Cutting the bonds of the ones we love
In time all shall dissapear
Leaving mass disillusion and despair
Some will find comfort in faith
Struck by unbeheld horrors
Somewhat the vision of a wraith
We all lose the ones we love,the ones we didnt, and the ones we never got the chance to love
But if it wasnt for this lance, striking down its prey
The most beautiful emotion of all would be forever hidden
Sorrow...
I never once mentioned anything to do with having a differing opinion on fictional works. Clearly you misunderstood. Don't put words into my mouth just so you can attempt to start an argument with them.I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong within reason, but there is no right or wrong opinion on a fictional work and never should be. See above comments if you need any further logic than that, it seems Zeldy does.
Last edited by Quindiana Jones; 12-23-2007 at 04:58 PM.
This is why I hate replying in big threadspeople always quote me and it SCARES ME ;;
Surely you're used to quoting big texts?
ooh sickburn :mog:
there was a picture here
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