You know what doesn't really grind my gears?

[NeoCracker]

Right now, I'd probably be going to Hell if you want to go by the Christian view of it all, because lying is awesome. I am a turkey! See? Hellbound.

We're both going to hell together Psy, and no amount of repenting is going to save us! The little lie about being a turkey is the least of your problems and reasons for going to hell, jackass.

Christmas. (Not the poster)

Why? Well, I'll give you a few reasons.

1) Right now, Christmas is a National Holiday. WTF? From my understanding, there is suppose to be a seperation between church and state. So why the hell is a Christian Holiday a national holiday? This is like spitting at all the people who have tried to keep a freedom of religion in this country. All this does is shove this religion down other peoples throats.

2) The obligation people feel to give people something on this holiday. Why does this piss me off? Because of the hypocricy. They say you should give somebody a gift from the heart. If thats the case, why the hell do you need a specific day to do this? What makes this day so special that you need to give people something? And having to do it on that day, doesn't it kill the thought? It seems much more thoughtful to give a person a gift because you want to and you want to make them happy, not because its a damn holiday.

3) The commercialism. So many people capitalize on other peoples need to give gifts that day. Mind you, it's not the companies that I'm pissed at, they are simply a business trying to make money. They probably don't give a rats ass it's Christmas. It's the stupid people that go for that crap. They get so caught up in the commercialism, they forget that they should be doing things from the heart, not the wallet.

4) School being out. True, this could be part of the national holiday part, but I think it deserves its own number. People who don't celebrate Christmas are missing out on their education, even if it is for only a couple days. Someone will say, "Oh, but thats not fair for us Christians who Celebrate Christmas."

To you I say, what about the Jews who celebrate Hanaka, or the people that Celebrate Quanzica, or any other of those oddly named holidays. If they miss out on those days, they are still expected to make up what they missed. Yet you good Christians seem to think you are exempt from that and shouldn't have to miss anything. If they can miss out on a day or two for their holidays because they are that important to them, so can you you greedy bastards.

Thank you for reading.

PS: I also hate bright Sunshine.

Well, I'm inclined to agree and disagree with you NC, Firstly I'll point out something even stranger than us somehow knowing that the 25th of december is the day Christ came to earth; the 30 day (average) month and the 7 day week have not been around eternally. In fact the Roman calendar had a 10 day week and I believe less months in the year, so therefore Christmas day would not have been on the 25th day of the 12th month or if it was it'd be highly unlikely. I could enter in to my whole debate of disproving the existence of God and the Devil based on the christianity compared to celtic beliefs, holidays and gods.

The fact that in most countries which are part of the commonwealth or were once ruled by the respective empires of many european countries (this is probably a huge portion of countries in the world) which converted to christianity with their new rulers have christmas as a national holiday is a throwback to when religion and state were very much intertwined and now it has become tradition it's hard to change. I used to study law and one of the first things I learnt is that legal judgements are not only based on the law but the moral and traditional values of a place. Therefore law was an uncertain thing.

The whole gift thing is quite strange to be honest. I know in the UK it used to be tradition to give presents on the 26th of december, boxing day. (which is where the name derives from not as I used to believe as a child because there was always boxing on boxing day) In other countries such as Poland it is Christmas Eve which is highly important religiously and traditionally. I guess the gift giving started out as some kind of gesture from the ruling class to the proletarian classes (working classes) A gift of a day off, some fresh fruit or salted meat ect ect it's become traditional and now everyone is giving gifts. Personally however I follow a great tradition of if someone is bad towards me they get no presents at christmas, this way of making children behave for me works to save me money as an adult. I have not brought my mother and sister a present now in over 5 years.

Commercialism, there has to be some point we draw the line at with this, sure people want to make money but some places are now taking it too far, I work in a store which sells a wide range of items, primarily it is meant to be a grocery store, food. That is what one traditionally buys in a supermarket, our store and indeed my department sells electricals, homeware, kitchen ware, toys, bedding all kinds of stuff. I remember seeing the first "christmas lines" deliveries in August and September. Other shops like Harrods have had christmas grottos since August. Bloody hell August is still mid summer, the educational year has yet to begin, the weather is still good, harvest time has yet to be done. I know however come the end of january I will see easter eggs comming in to my store for the easter period. I think this is my biggest gripe with the commercial society the modern world lives by.

School holidays were probably originally set when state and religion was very much intertwined don't forget in countries such as the uk it used to be called Heresy to not believe in god and heretics were burnt at the stake or given to the inquisition to torture and kill.

What personally grinds my gears?

The war on terrorism.

Now I have the utmost respect for soldiers who have gone to fight for their countries and I truly think they done some good in the world by taking Saddam Hussein out of power and also taking the corrupt Afghanistani government down. I think the anti war protestors are stupid, we're at war you protest before we go to war not once we're fighting it...once commited to a course of action there is no going back, don't like the way someone leads your country don't vote them in to power for another damn term. So many of my friends went to the anti war protests in London and all tried to get me to go with them but I am in a sense pro war and refused.

I just believe the war on terrorism can never be truly won. I mean, whenever someone sets rules or laws there are those who will be malcontent with these rules or laws. Most will merely whine about them impotently whilst still following the rules/laws. Some will refuse to follow the laws/rules and break or bend them when they can and protest these laws publicly trying to get them changed. There will however always be someone or some people I should say who will see these laws/rules and decide that not only do they not agree with the laws/rules but will fight physically to get them changed, these people are terrorists in the eyes of governments everywhere. Some terrorists will fight against government targets and government employees, if these organisations become big enough with enough political clout they're classed as rebellions. Other terrorists will see anyone who accepts these laws, upholds these laws, protects these laws as viable targets. These people like the islamic extremists responsible for 9/11 kill innocent people.

In this war on terrorism we're trying to stomp out the terrorists, yet we're setting up law and order, rules and regulations. In effect we're breeding more terrorists. And yes, I do believe we will cause future terrorists in this war on terrorism. You can already see it's happening out there in our cities, our schools, our religious fanes. What George W Bush and Tony Blair have effectively put in motion is a war which can never be won, never be declared over because there will always be terrorists. Now if they reset the target of the war on terrorism to be "lets take down the corrupt governments in the middle east and establish governments which will help their people prosper in the modern world." I believe it is something attainable.

First, it's not really the business's that bother me, its the people who get so absorbed into this commercialism that bother me.

Other than that, were exactly are we disagreeing?

And Bert, I refuse to enjoy Christmas. Not only is it pointless and meaningless to me even without the Christian holiday thing, but I hate Christmas music.

And finally, I already know the Origins of Christmas aren't exactly with Christianity.

However the origins don't mean much, what matters is that now it is a Christian holiday, and it seems that its why its national. If it weren't national, there wouldn't be some large groups of Athiest's and jews fighting it. There would be a large number of Christians doing it though. and while there will be some that honestly want it around for traditions sake, most of them will be fighting to keep it simply because of their religious beliefs.

There is no reason for Christmas to be a national holiday. At all.

Of course, I have issues with tradition too. :P