What is a RPG?

[Wolf Kanno]

After reading this amusing Preview about FFXIII (WARNING THERE ARE A FEW SPOILERS!!!) as well as my own personal discussions on the nature of linear game design, I've come to whimsical conclusion we at EoFF should seriously sit back and ask ourselves what actually constitutes an RPG? What are the defining guidelines that keeps a game in the RPG genre and doesn't just make it an interactive movie with a menu based system or in term of action RPGs, doesn't accidentally transform it into an Action Game itself.

I just feel that in the modern age, defining RPGs as simply a game with a focus on storytelling is kinda silly cause most games now feature a heavier emphasis on storytelling. DMC4's greatest criticism was how awful the plot was but if this was fifteen years ago, such a criticism would not even be an issue cause action games were not designed to be about storyline, plots in an action game were just a semi-logical excuse to explain why you are shooting aliens with your six shooter while riding a dinosaur. Obviously things have changed and games like MGS, SotN, and RE have made strong narratives a mainstay for action games so now that RPGs (or at least JRPGs) are losing their old school niche, what is left to define them.

XIII has removed towns and old school shops, and transformed most of the dungeons into simple roads, NPC are almost non-existent and the world and flow of the game is heavily linear and offers zero choice. I feel the question many critics have been asking, is it still an RPG? and why? What defining elements does it possess that makes it separate from other genres? What's to keep people from saying its just a menu based action game? I mean we've reached a point now where other genres have been sampling the RPG pie so much that it is hard to say what actually constitutes an RPG and not just be one of its many splintered offshoots.

So my question is this: What is your definition of an RPG and what do you think a universal definition for it would be? What do you feel it should be?

[Madame Adequate]

JRPGs have never involved much in the way of RP.

I am pretty bothered by the absence of towns though. Most of my favorite locations from FF games have been towns after all, something that's probably true of many other people.

I was more confident about FFXIII until I saw this stuff.

But yeah if you want to play an actual RPG which does involve the RP aspect (i.e. choices & consequences) rather than telling a linear story using RPG-mechanic combat, you need to play western games quite simply.

[Quindiana Jones]

I am pretty bothered by the absence of towns though. Most of my favorite locations from FF games have been towns after all, something that's probably true of many other people.

Dali = one of the best locations ever.

[Mirage]

JRPGs aren't really RPGs, and never have been. It's just a term that most people associate with "rpg-like stat progression". If you want games that actually try to be like an RPG, you need to play western RPGs, and even these only scratch the surface of real roleplaying.

[Laddy]

The only true RPG is Facade.

Download it now.

[Raistlin]

JRPGs aren't really RPGs, and never have been. It's just a term that most people associate with "rpg-like stat progression". If you want games that actually try to be like an RPG, you need to play western RPGs, and even these only scratch the surface of real roleplaying.

Yeah, it's tough to develop a definition of RPG which incorporates JRPGs but somehow manages to exclude Action/Adventure games. The Adventure games just add a little plot and there's less and less which distinguishes them.

Modern JRPGs could just be considered console movies with some gameplay elements. At least, that's what the Final Fantasy series seems to be moving towards anyway (FFXII was an exception).

[Rad Bromance]

I really don't think the term "RPG" should even be used anymore, unless you're talking about a game like Fable or Oblivion I suppose. Games like Final Fantasy VII and Xenogears are no more "Role-Playing Games" than Bayonetta or Resident Evil.

I remember when I first saw Fallout 3 and Mass Effect and they were labeled as "RPG" I thought "What? These aren't at all RPGs!" but now that I think about it those are actually more RPGs than FF games (save XI) are.

[Bolivar]

It's like pronography, I can't define it, but I know it when I see it.

I mean the boundaries of the genre have been eroding since the mid-late 90's. I'm going to have to play FFXIII for myself before I label it a menu-based action game, but a lot of the new coming out isn't good.

[Mirage]

I really don't think the term "RPG" should even be used anymore, unless you're talking about a game like Fable or Oblivion I suppose. Games like Final Fantasy VII and Xenogears are no more "Role-Playing Games" than Bayonetta or Resident Evil.

I remember when I first saw Fallout 3 and Mass Effect and they were labeled as "RPG" I thought "What? These aren't at all RPGs!" but now that I think about it those are actually more RPGs than FF games (save XI) are.

Why exactly did you think FO3 and ME weren't RPGs?

[Rad Bromance]

I really don't think the term "RPG" should even be used anymore, unless you're talking about a game like Fable or Oblivion I suppose. Games like Final Fantasy VII and Xenogears are no more "Role-Playing Games" than Bayonetta or Resident Evil.

I remember when I first saw Fallout 3 and Mass Effect and they were labeled as "RPG" I thought "What? These aren't at all RPGs!" but now that I think about it those are actually more RPGs than FF games (save XI) are.

Why exactly did you think FO3 and ME weren't RPGs?

Because they're first/third person shooters.

[Mirage]

I never really saw that as conflicting with them being RPGs, I just thought "oh cool, an action RPG where I can play in first person!" I guess I can see how it could clash with some people's perception of genres though :p.

[Raistlin]

FO3 fits quite squarely into the WRPG sub-genre; it's basically an Oblivion-style game with a futuristic setting. I can see Mass Effect blurring the lines a bit more, though.

[Mirage]

well, FO3 and TES4 is more proper-rpg-like than ME because of the sandbox gameplay you get in it. In ME you can't attack friendlies no matter what :p.

[Yeargdribble]

The term RPG is BS to begin with. The broad number of things it has evolved to cover are far from the table-top style games it originated from. Terms like CPRG, JRPG, and WRPG are great for helping us pin labels on things for quick identification, but they have nothing to do with what RPG meant.

JRPGs are generally about stats with a moderately cliché story and are so far divorced from even relative reality as to be laughable. This is plenty clear in most of the over-wrought animations in the FF series.

CRPGs tried to emulate what RPGs were but the technology didn't allow it then and still doesn't truly allow it. Nobody even uses the term really other than people talking about the history of RPGs. These tended to be more hardcore with things like permanent death and specifically not having a map being a feature on purpose. This is as close as it gets and it's history. Nobody wants to play these games any more.

WRPGs just try to focus more on everything that JRPGs don't. They tried to explore settings that the traditional JRPGs don't cover and tend to focus more on character than numbers.

RPGs are the types of games where you can actually play a role. You can make mistakes. You can die... permanently. You can't be 7 different job classes. You are one type of character and play that role. You react in your role to a story that unfolds before you. That doesn't necessarily mean it's only D&D, but procedurally generated content and Turing test AI isn't at the level where you can have these games in any type of reality.

[Slothy]

FO3 fits quite squarely into the WRPG sub-genre; it's basically an Oblivion-style game with a futuristic setting. I can see Mass Effect blurring the lines a bit more, though.

Mass Effect did no more to blur the lines than Oblivion or Fallout 3 did. It's still very much a WRPG, and despite seeming more action oriented, that action was still limited by a mechanic that made it feel pretty turn based at times (guns overheating and needing to cool down). Bethesda's stuff actually leans more toward the action side of things than I would say the original ME does.