Quote Originally Posted by kotora View Post
Quote Originally Posted by Zeldy View Post
Ooooh a sociological debate! My favourite.

The idea of women having a "Motherly" instinct is completely socially constructed; the way boys and girls are socialized (ie. blue for boy, pink for girl, soldier for boy, play kitchen for girl etc etc) is what leads to these stereotypes of "women should be in the kitchen" etc. So we don't do ourselves any favours and then we wonder why it's OUR job to cook the meal when, ironically, most of the top chefs are men.

I don't know if that's at all relevant, but I feel clever.

Quote Originally Posted by ~*~Celes~*~ View Post
I like to believe that my "in ur kitchen makin ur sammiches" is very much instinctual, because it's about the desire to nurture, which is in the female instinct line. And you know what? I like it that way. And I want a mate who desires to protect me and provide for me and our future family <3
This is completely (and stereotypically) socially constructed. Biologically, there is no "female instinct" or "desire to nurture". There's no reason why a woman can't be the breadwinner - why must the woman always take the expressive role?
because it's hardwired into your genes and that of most female mammals, but I guess that's just a "social construct" as well.

even the toughest feminist CEO career-bitch will become a soft caring mommy when she gets a baby. Well most of them at least. Some just never care, in which case it just means they suck forever.
The fact that you use "toughest feminist CEO career-bitch" reinforces the idea that women who do "men" role will somehow be a bitch, but a man doing the same thing is simply accepted if not applauded.

It is nearly impossible to say for 100% that something is natural because we don't know what our "natural" state is. We can look at different animal species, some of them more similar to us genetically but it cannot give us a firm grasp of what the human "natural" state is. In fact, from various cultural perspective an unsocialized human is not a human at all, or is somehow less than human. Humanity and human being-ness only arise from being in contact with other humans.

Quote Originally Posted by Freya
Take my neice for example. My sister and her husband didn't want to know what they were having so they bought up all the green and yellow things. So everything was the neutral colors. When they had her "Oh it's a girl!" She had this most of her infancy. As she grew she naturally liked flowers and what not. She would pick the flowers and bring them to us. So you have the nature thing about liking flowers.
Are you saying it is natural that a girl will pick flowers, or you saying that the flower picking activity just depends on the person (regardless of gender)?

Regardless, it does not change the fact that in a Pavlovian manner gender-roles are enforced. If a biologically male child plays with Barbies, it will be frowned upon. He will be told that he should be playing with other, more "manly" things. Furthermore, the behaviour is reinforced by his male peers who were also taught the same thing thus he becomes subject to teasing for doing an activity associated with "girls" and femininity. Conversely, if a girl plays with trucks and cars, she will be told that maybe she should play with dolls or something similar. Let's not even start about intersexed children and what happen to them. The point is society at large is wholly concerned about gender-roles. Maybe some people have been fortunate enough not to have suffer greatly because of it for there is change occurring but by and large it still happens.

As for the cooking thing? Women's place is in the kitchen? Really? The restaurant industry is dominated by males. When you go out to a restaurant the fact is your food will most likely be prepared by a guy. It is the truth. As for cooking ability? Depends on the person and how they were raised and any innate skills they have. I know guys and girls who can't cook if they're life depended on it. Heck, traditionally baking is associated with females, but I am the better baker than one of my female friends. However, this same friend is a better savoury cook than me. We have different areas we excel at regardless of sex.