dead, probablyOriginally Posted by Night Fury
dead, probably
Guys, book spoilers and show spoilers ahead. If you've not watched the latest episode of Game Of Thrones then why not, if you've watched it and aren't up on the books but don't want book information... skip my post.
(SPOILER)So in the books the ressurective power of Thoros of Myr is explained that it takes away from him little by little until it is impossible for him to bring someone back. If I recall correctly... (sorry re-reading the books but not up to this again yet) When Beric Dondarrion insists he brings Cat Stark back as Lady Stoneheart, Thoros refused. He said she was too far gone and it would be against nature or something very similar. Beric Dondarrion gave no trouts about his own survival and so gives up his life in order to bring Cat back.
Now, that strikes me as something that is important in Melisandre in the show.
We know, that Melisandre is said to be centuries old. As such, she must have used a great deal of power staying alive so long. The fact that she has also cast a Glamour for much of this if not all of this duration to ensure that she is young and beautiful instead of old and hag like is also telling that she has great power. In the book, she doesn't just cast a glamour spell on herself, she known to have cast one on Rattleshirt making him look like Mance Rayner so that he can be "given to the flames" in stead of Mance Rayder. Something the TV production so far as we know chose to avoid going with.
Melisandre thought Stannis was Azor Ahai and saw him fight and win at Winterfell against the Boltons. However, Stannis failed and Brienne in the show at least kills him. She said in the episode to Ser Davos that she saw Jon in the flames too at Winterfell. I think that Melisandre doesn't so much as see a specific person as Azor Ahai but rather the being of Azor Ahai himself in the flames. I don't think she can tell whom will become Azor Ahai, at least not fully. Now, it's very clear from how she ended up back at Castle Black when Stannis rode for Winterfell that she began to doubt Stannis was really Azor Ahai and she had come to think (perhaps rightly so) that it is actually Jon who is Azor Ahai.
The death of 2 men whom she believed could be Azor Ahai and face the great other in the coming night and war shakes her faith a lot. She knows she is old and whilst yes, she is capable of great feats, I do not believe that she has the power left to ressurect the dead. At least, not at great personal cost to herself, likely all her remaining life force or enough that she will no longer be able to maintain her vanity glamour. I think the scene at the end is her weighing her options:
1) Let Jon Snow remain dead. The light loses the war against the great other and winter never ends.
2) Whatever the cost, revive Jon Snow, let him live in the hope that he is Azor Ahai and can save the world.
I think that the removal of her glamours before she retires to bed, the way she judges her own appearance and seemingly accepts it means she has made her choice and will likely revive Jon so that he can save Westeros regardless of if it strips her of her powers in the process.
If she does save Jon then it has some interesting considerations for Jon Snow as a character.
In the book Jon learns that his sister Arya is being married to Ramsay Bolton so that the Boltons may claim Winterfell. Unaware that the bride is actually Jeyne Poole, Jon sends Mance to rescue her while Stannis marches on Winterfell. Jon later receives a letter from Ramsay claiming that Stannis has been defeated and Mance is a prisoner. Ramsay demands hostages, else he will march on the Wall and kill Jon. Jon decides to seek out and kill Ramsay himself, but he is stabbed by his Night's Watch brothers seeking to uphold the Watch's political neutrality before he can leave Castle Black. In the show obviously this whole lead up doesn't happen however, he's led out by Olly at the promise of news of Uncle Benjen but stabbed for quite a bit of the same stuff, chiefly, he let the wildlings through.
Now, Jon swore an oath that binds him to the wall and the watch until death. Only in death does his watch end. Well he's been killed, and that means his watch is done. If he is brought back by Melisandre, then he's technically free of his oath. He's also in a good position to become the leader of a Wildling army. Which is perhaps a little ironic as Mance Rayder was once a member of the Nights Watch and it's often mentioned how alike he and Jon are at times but Jon swears repeatedly he would never become Mance. This army would then be in a good position to rally banners in the north and take Winterfell back.
Alternatively, Jon could view his ressurection as a continuance of his life and so feel that he cannot abandon his post at the watch. Which would leave one hell of a show down to be had with Alister Thorne.
I'm not going to lie however, as much as I am really enjoying the show, it simply doesn't compare to the books. Mainly because, the writing of the show is in parts and certain storylines (Jaime & Cersei in particular) is pretty smurfing awful in it's choice of direction.
Osmurf's sake, Steve. Take the two seconds and use spoiler tags for book trout.
I openly stated there's book stuff ahead and to not read it if you don't want book stuff... oh well whatever.
While this theory is probably one of the more sensible of the Reddit tinfoil, I highly doubt this is the case. Going to put the rest of it in spoiler tags JUST IN CASE.
(SPOILER)Euron and Daario look nothing alike based on their book descriptions, and now that Euron has been cast in the show I find this even more unlikely. The only way to explain this now would be if E/D is a Faceless Man or some trout and that would be so over the top and disappointing. This is a common issue, wherein Martin will set up two characters as a mirror-image or foil of each other and ASoIaF fans, in trying to drum-up their own excitement between books, go ballistic and THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON/EACH OTHER'S MOM AND/OR DAD AND ALSO A MERMAN.
Ah, didn't know they'd cast the dude. That's pretty much out the window thenWhile this theory is probably one of the more sensible of the Reddit tinfoil, I highly doubt this is the case. Going to put the rest of it in spoiler tags JUST IN CASE.
(SPOILER)Euron and Daario look nothing alike based on their book descriptions, and now that Euron has been cast in the show I find this even more unlikely. The only way to explain this now would be if E/D is a Faceless Man or some trout and that would be so over the top and disappointing. This is a common issue, wherein Martin will set up two characters as a mirror-image or foil of each other and ASoIaF fans, in trying to drum-up their own excitement between books, go ballistic and THEY'RE THE SAME PERSON/EACH OTHER'S MOM AND/OR DAD AND ALSO A MERMAN.Would've been a pretty excellent twist!
In response to SteveHow interesting it would it if Mance turns out to be Azor Ahai. In the books, he could still win the battle at Winterfell and lead the troops against the darkness. In the show, he could still be sent to retake Winterfell at some future time and then continue on the fight the dark army. It's not likely, but it is a possibility.
...
I like that theory.
comparing book vs show
i personaly agree the most with the Arianne Martell part. i loved her story in the books :3 (im not fully caught up with the books, im at a third of A Dance With Dragons now)
and ofcourse the Sand Snakes. they are so diverse and interesting in the book but in the show they just really suck..
a joke from the last episode
Last edited by Shaibana; 04-27-2016 at 03:45 PM.
What I don't get with the current Dorne storyline is the actions of Ellaria Sand. So your paramour and lover is killed. What to do next? Oh, I know, kill his beloved brother and nephew!
How does that make sense?
Especially when she is saying that Oberyn was murdered when no he really wasn't.
indeed, he volunteered to be Tyrions champion, and then he screwed it up.
it all went according to the 'rules' :3
it wasnt just about Oberyn tho.
it was also about the death of Elia Martell and the fact that Doran did nothing to avenge Elia and her children.
So for years they felt like justice was cheated from them.
She thinks Doran is weak, and she wants someone strong in controle.
It wasn't just about Oberyn, but at the end of the day you're still killing his beloved brother.indeed, he volunteered to be Tyrions champion, and then he screwed it up.
it all went according to the 'rules' :3
it wasnt just about Oberyn tho.
it was also about the death of Elia Martell and the fact that Doran did nothing to avenge Elia and her children.
So for years they felt like justice was cheated from them.
She thinks Doran is weak, and she wants someone strong in controle.
I mean, I could even get killing Doran if you're so blinded by a desire to do something, but Trystane? You could just imprison him.
I'm actually looking forward for this little plot of theirs to come crashing down. Those Sand Snakes are so bad. Might as well kill them.
I don't think we are meant to apply logic and reason to the Sands' actions. They appear to be driven by emotion and bloodlust and don't care for long-term consequences of their actions.
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