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Thread: Dark Souls

  1. #1186

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    SO HYPED FOR DkS2 IT'S OUT OF CONTROL

    New concept art stuff:

    Games Movies Music Anime: Dark Souls 2 - Lots of New Concept Arts

    I'm staying away from all the beta footage that's been leaking around to prevent spoilers, but I don't mind looking at the art pieces. Man, they look so epic. Listening to the DkS soundtrack right now while working, and it makes everything I do an epic task.

    HYPE!

  2. #1187
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    A friend of mine was ever so kind enough to request I do this game for a review. My friend also enjoys seeing me suffer. So I got the game as a birthday present and spent this past week playing it.

    Got a call from the Pope, apparently the Vatican burned down on account of my spewing profanity at the screen. I explained I was playing Dark Souls. He seemed to understand and offered his sympathies.

  3. #1188

  4. #1189

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    I tried to get into Dark Souls multiple times, but I can't seem to hack it. Its not the difficulty that bothers me, ive beaten a lot of titles made by Platinum Studios and their predecessor Clover Studios (God Hand, Bayonetta etc) that were hard as all hell. What bothers me is that it pretty much failed to teach me anything about how to play it. I have no clue how spells work, what humanity does, what half the statistics for my weapons/armour are etc. I could go on, but it really seems like the only way to learn the games mechanics is to look up things from a third party or get my ass handed to me arbitrarily for the first I dont know, 5 hours before I figure out the games rules.

    God Hand might have been ball-bustingly difficult, but at least it had the common courtesy to explain all of my abilities within the first 10 minutes and give me all the tools I need to possibly win. Now I get it, a lot of games are way too hand-holdy with tutorials and trout. I remember Mass Effect 3 telling me to move the control stick to move my character. That being said, is it really so unreasonable that you teach me about how to use magic if I pick a dedicated spellcasting class? Im not asking for a detailed walkthrough here, just some basic direction.

    Im not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything if you enjoy this game, but there's really no excuse for not teaching players the basic rules to your game. Imagine if you could only learn Chess by having your opponent take your pieces in ways you didn't know were possible. Heck you might think you've checkmated them only to find out that you can do some weird move where they swap with the castle, ruining your entire strategy. If the player doesn't know the basic rules, how can they possibly develop strategies and get any good at the game without learning them first?

  5. #1190
    Nameleon. Huckleberry Quin's Avatar
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    Last edited by Huckleberry Quin; 10-07-2013 at 03:35 PM.

  6. #1191

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    Goes to show how much I know about Chess. Dumb analogy :P

  7. #1192
    disc jockey to your heart krissy's Avatar
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  8. #1193

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    Haha that parody has some spot-on things. I love this game so much.

  9. #1194
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete for President View Post
    I'd like to see that review!
    -points to blog entry-

    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmiccandy View Post
    I tried to get into Dark Souls multiple times, but I can't seem to hack it. Its not the difficulty that bothers me, ive beaten a lot of titles made by Platinum Studios and their predecessor Clover Studios (God Hand, Bayonetta etc) that were hard as all hell. What bothers me is that it pretty much failed to teach me anything about how to play it. I have no clue how spells work, what humanity does, what half the statistics for my weapons/armour are etc. I could go on, but it really seems like the only way to learn the games mechanics is to look up things from a third party or get my ass handed to me arbitrarily for the first I dont know, 5 hours before I figure out the games rules.

    God Hand might have been ball-bustingly difficult, but at least it had the common courtesy to explain all of my abilities within the first 10 minutes and give me all the tools I need to possibly win. Now I get it, a lot of games are way too hand-holdy with tutorials and trout. I remember Mass Effect 3 telling me to move the control stick to move my character. That being said, is it really so unreasonable that you teach me about how to use magic if I pick a dedicated spellcasting class? Im not asking for a detailed walkthrough here, just some basic direction.

    Im not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything if you enjoy this game, but there's really no excuse for not teaching players the basic rules to your game. Imagine if you could only learn Chess by having your opponent take your pieces in ways you didn't know were possible. Heck you might think you've checkmated them only to find out that you can do some weird move where they swap with the castle, ruining your entire strategy. If the player doesn't know the basic rules, how can they possibly develop strategies and get any good at the game without learning them first?
    Yeah, it's not very self-explanatory. It's more comparable to life, you get by on your own devices and wit or be crushed beneath its raw heel.

  10. #1195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmiccandy View Post
    I tried to get into Dark Souls multiple times, but I can't seem to hack it. Its not the difficulty that bothers me, ive beaten a lot of titles made by Platinum Studios and their predecessor Clover Studios (God Hand, Bayonetta etc) that were hard as all hell. What bothers me is that it pretty much failed to teach me anything about how to play it. I have no clue how spells work, what humanity does, what half the statistics for my weapons/armour are etc. I could go on, but it really seems like the only way to learn the games mechanics is to look up things from a third party or get my ass handed to me arbitrarily for the first I dont know, 5 hours before I figure out the games rules.

    God Hand might have been ball-bustingly difficult, but at least it had the common courtesy to explain all of my abilities within the first 10 minutes and give me all the tools I need to possibly win. Now I get it, a lot of games are way too hand-holdy with tutorials and trout. I remember Mass Effect 3 telling me to move the control stick to move my character. That being said, is it really so unreasonable that you teach me about how to use magic if I pick a dedicated spellcasting class? Im not asking for a detailed walkthrough here, just some basic direction.

    Im not trying to rain on anyone's parade or anything if you enjoy this game, but there's really no excuse for not teaching players the basic rules to your game. Imagine if you could only learn Chess by having your opponent take your pieces in ways you didn't know were possible. Heck you might think you've checkmated them only to find out that you can do some weird move where they swap with the castle, ruining your entire strategy. If the player doesn't know the basic rules, how can they possibly develop strategies and get any good at the game without learning them first?
    I love the game to pieces and have over 200 hours on it, and I definitely think this is a legitimate complaint. In Demon's Souls it wasn't a big deal because the game actually had a well done manual, but for some reason Bamco decided not to include a detailed manual with Dark Souls, which I was thoroughly disappointed in. Games like these NEED a manual.

    I don't think they should include any type of tutorial in the game itself, as it would slow it down and take away from the feeling of finding your own way to tackle obstacles and situations, but at the very least they should include a manual that explains all the essentials for you (and maybe some of the more advanced stuff too). It's just sad that in this day and age, manuals in general are practically non-existent. It really hurts the accessibility of a game like this.

    From what I've read though, II seems to be addressing this issue, so try playing that when it comes out! This series is fantastic, and it's fully worth getting over that initial learning period.

  11. #1196

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirPrizes View Post

    I love the game to pieces and have over 200 hours on it, and I definitely think this is a legitimate complaint. In Demon's Souls it wasn't a big deal because the game actually had a well done manual, but for some reason Bamco decided not to include a detailed manual with Dark Souls, which I was thoroughly disappointed in. Games like these NEED a manual.

    I don't think they should include any type of tutorial in the game itself, as it would slow it down and take away from the feeling of finding your own way to tackle obstacles and situations, but at the very least they should include a manual that explains all the essentials for you (and maybe some of the more advanced stuff too). It's just sad that in this day and age, manuals in general are practically non-existent. It really hurts the accessibility of a game like this.

    From what I've read though, II seems to be addressing this issue, so try playing that when it comes out! This series is fantastic, and it's fully worth getting over that initial learning period.
    I'm glad we can come to some sort of understanding. Other people that weren't on this forum got the impression I was trying to trout on their game and got very defensive when I mentioned this kind of stuff.

    Your post has kind of motivated me to give it another crack sooner or later. Even if I dont get invested in the original, I will at least give DS II a try.

  12. #1197

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmiccandy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SirPrizes View Post

    I love the game to pieces and have over 200 hours on it, and I definitely think this is a legitimate complaint. In Demon's Souls it wasn't a big deal because the game actually had a well done manual, but for some reason Bamco decided not to include a detailed manual with Dark Souls, which I was thoroughly disappointed in. Games like these NEED a manual.

    I don't think they should include any type of tutorial in the game itself, as it would slow it down and take away from the feeling of finding your own way to tackle obstacles and situations, but at the very least they should include a manual that explains all the essentials for you (and maybe some of the more advanced stuff too). It's just sad that in this day and age, manuals in general are practically non-existent. It really hurts the accessibility of a game like this.

    From what I've read though, II seems to be addressing this issue, so try playing that when it comes out! This series is fantastic, and it's fully worth getting over that initial learning period.
    I'm glad we can come to some sort of understanding. Other people that weren't on this forum got the impression I was trying to trout on their game and got very defensive when I mentioned this kind of stuff.

    Your post has kind of motivated me to give it another crack sooner or later. Even if I dont get invested in the original, I will at least give DS II a try.
    Yeah, if there's anything bad about the game's fanbase, it's that a lot of them can be elitist assholes who think if you have a problem with the game, any problem at all, it's because you suck. In a lot of cases, most peoples' initial complaints are because they haven't gotten over the learning curve and are passing judgment too quickly, but for stuff like what you were talking about, it really is the game's own fault.

    Glad my post could do that for you! Yeah, if you can't get into the original you should definitely try DaS II. It has a new director, and one of the first things he said was that he wants to make it more accessible to new players.

    If you ever want help with anything though, you could always ask in this thread. I'm sure I'll be lurking it frequently, and there are probably plenty of others who can help!

  13. #1198
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    I thought that beginning stage was a tutorial?

    Quote Originally Posted by SirPrizes View Post
    Yeah, if there's anything bad about the game's fanbase, it's that a lot of them can be elitist assholes who think if you have a problem with the game, any problem at all, it's because you suck. In a lot of cases, most peoples' initial complaints are because they haven't gotten over the learning curve and are passing judgment too quickly, but for stuff like what you were talking about, it really is the game's own fault.
    I learned this by browsing online. Say the game's too hard? You suck at it. Say the game's too easy? You suck at it. I'm still trying to figure out the logic in that last one.

  14. #1199
    Baby Punting Pro TrollHunter's Avatar
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    I've never heard the "This games too easy because you suck" argument before actually. Thats a very new one for me.

    But the fanbase is... yeah, I would say elitist is a good word. Lots of guys trying to force their own meta-game rules on other players and a bunch of other silly nonsense.

    The game is ripe with issues, and someday before DkS2 comes out I'll probably write a full-on review (and considering I put over 500 hours into the game interspersed with lots of PvP and challenge runs (not to mention watching others PvP and do challenge runs) I would say it would be one long-as-tits review, but it would be one up to my standards. Dark Souls deserves a review that isn't half assed by me, and I don't intent to give it that.

  15. #1200

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
    I thought that beginning stage was a tutorial?
    It is, but it only really covers controls and some basics of bonfire usage. Theres a whole ton of mechanics which aren't really explained. Durability, the entirety of the magic and miracles system, kindling, hollowing, weapon and armor statistics, covenants, merchants. It might sound silly to some of you more grizzled veterans who might not remember what it was like in the beginning, but I feel like its the biggest obstacle to players enjoyment of the game.

    I remember my friend getting very frustrated because he had no idea that a durability system even existed in Dark Souls until his equipment pretty much fell to pieces, and then he had no idea how to repair it and didn't even know if it could be repaired in the first place.

    I myself got frustrated with magic. I finally learnt how to cast something after screwing around in menus and pressing random buttons for a while . I appeared to have some sort of DnD style use system as opposed to mana which is fine I guess but I had so many questions. How do I replenish those uses? Do spells scale at all with stats or do I just get better spells? How do I get new spells? I just didn't have the patience and gave up.

    Might just play a Warrior or whatever they call the dedicated melee class for next time.

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