The "Call Me Maybe" song by Carly Rae Jepsen

[Ouch!]

"Debating" with you is like banging my head against the wall.

You fundamentally underestimate to what degree your goals regarding music are an impingement on the freedom of others to express themselves.

Nobody here is invading your life; we're simply insisting that your desired changes are an invasion of ours, whether you think so or not. You have no right to demand that we "be more vigilant about these things, and know exactly what [we're] listening to or watching." We are aware of the content of the media we consume; unlike you, we just aren't bothered by it.

[SuperMillionaire]

To be honest, I happen to like some of those artists myself, even though I personally think that at times (but not ALL the time), they are abusing their freedoms of speech and expression. There's a time and place for everything, and certain things are not appropriate for certain times and places. In addition, there's also a "sliding scale" of "inappropriate" content, some being worse than others.

The thing is, I wasn't aware of these things until I started reading the TV Tropes wiki, where I learned about getting crap past the radar, which "disguises" things that would be considered "adult" content, so that the radar (censor system) doesn't catch it, and refuge in audacity which blatantly makes adult content very obvious, but still somehow manage to get away with it. I've now seen that pretty much every cartoon and live action television show supposedly aimed at all ages has a significant amount of personal aesthetic fan service (shirtless men and scantily-clad women), sexual innuendo, gross-out humor (bathroom humor, bodily function humor, and gross habits such as burping and nose-picking), curses cut short, curses in foreign languages, minced oaths, unusual euphemisms, and drug and alcohol references in them, some more than others, and I'm not exactly bothered by ALL of it, as I like some of those things myself (if it is done subtlely, and not blatantly), but still, label it properly. I actually do like some sensuality, but only if it is done in a subtle manner, and not blatantly, and I also find humor in bad odors. Apparently, the radars seem to miss these things, but anyway, I'm okay with some of them, but not all of them.

And I never said "stop listening or watching whatever you're watching," but I'd still like to know why you aren't offended by it. The reason why I'm offended by some (but not all) of these things is that it's just pure shock and sleaze, and there's no real justification for it; is it really necessary? I'm certainly not saying you shouldn't watch it at all, but I just want to know why you aren't offended by these things. Now that I am aware of these things, while I'm still interested in them, I want to know why they do these things, as well as what kind of standards they have, since apparently, many people don't seem have standards today (though there are some that do).

Also, I've known many people who have told me that I should be listening to and watching the same things they listen to and watch, but I refused, stating that I'd rather not get into that kind of trash. They typically say things that "if we can handle it, so can you," but why would they be into those things in the first place? They say it's "mature," but to be honest, I don't think that being into those things makes you mature; if anything, I would think that those things are either "anti-mature" or "mis-mature," since those things certainly aren't childish (which are often referred to as "immaturity"), but they're not "truly mature" either. Nor do I think that not being into these things means that one is immature. Thus, many people tend to condescend on me, yet object to me when I condescend back on them. HOW IRONIC. In fact, there's an Alanis Morrisette song titled "Ironic," which I think of as one of my life's theme songs, since I've found a lot of ironies and paradoxes in my life. Her lyrics tend to be quite snarky (sarcastic) and cynical, which is something that I can connect with, because I am also quite snarky and cynical. (Accoring to the TV Tropes wiki, a "deadpan snarker" is defined as "a character given to wry, sarcastic, or excessively dry humor, usually in the form of snide commentary or an occasional aside.")

One other thing that you should know about me is that I am also quite the philosophical thinker. I've taken a few philosophy classes in college already, and I've realized that I am a very philosophical thinker, as I tend to think about "why" and "how" a lot. In fact, that's part of the concept of philosophy known as existentialism: asking "why?" and "how?" a lot.

With all of that said, despite you "hurting" me a lot (which is why I think you are rightly named, and you know who I'm talking about), I don't hate you, and I don't want you to hate me, either. Let's acknowledge both our similarities and our differences and respect each other. And again, I'm sorry.

[Shoeberto]

To be honest, I happen to like some of those artists myself, even though I personally think that at times (but not ALL the time), they are abusing their freedoms of speech and expression.

You can't abuse freedom of speech and expression. That's why it's called freedom of speech. Otherwise you end up in a state of censorship.

[Ouch!]

If you want to discuss irony, I might suggest researching the consequences of existentialism for morality and your insistence on thrusting your individual morality over others.

[SuperMillionaire]

True, but as I said, many others have tried to impose their moralities on me. And again, I wasn't aware of these things until I started reading the TV Tropes wiki, and while I'm okay with a large percentage of these things for myself, it's only a select few that I'm worried about. For instance, I happen to be a fan of watching girls pole dance, as long as it is not overly erotic.

[kotora]

What's pretty ironic is how you keep mentioning TV Tropes. You realize that wiki is all about structurally analyzing media content while you seem to be completely unable to look past the content itself? So far we have seen absolutely no answer as to why (italic for emphasis) you consider "overly erotic" pole dancing etc. to be bad. You're about as good at this philosophy thing as you are at sociological thinking.

[Ouch!]

Also I'm consistently tickled that you're pointing to the TV Tropes Wiki as if it carries any sort of weight as a source in an argument.

[Shoeberto]

SO
CALL
ME



MAYBE

[The Man]

Overt nastiness (including sleazy lyrics, trash talk, and monster-like screaming)
Explicit lyrics
Scary horror themes
Anarchist themes
Glorifying getting drunk and wasted
Sleazy lyrics
Explicit lyrics
Overall eroticism, including strange outfits that bare <s>too much</s> skin

<span style="color: #38e897;">>implying any of these are bad things</span>

also:

[SuperMillionaire]

What's pretty ironic is how you keep mentioning TV Tropes. You realize that wiki is all about structurally analyzing media content while you seem to be completely unable to look past the content itself? So far we have seen absolutely no answer as to why (italic for emphasis) you consider "overly erotic" pole dancing etc. to be bad. You're about as good at this philosophy thing as you are at sociological thinking.

It depends on what pole dancing is combined with. I can accept go-go dancing. Stripteases, however, I do not accept. And obviously there's no issue with pole dancing when it is done more athletically and artistically, as it is done in acrobatic shows and/or fitness competitions. In fact, I'll even let my kids watch some of these pole dancing performances, if I find it suitable enough for them.

When it comes to music, in all fairness, they have the right to express themselves. However, I still don't get why they have to use expletives, erotic innuendo (some of which I am okay with), and drug and alcohol themes to do so. Why do they do it? And I also don't get why or how we, as a society, became so tolerant of these things, though it didn't happen overnight; it increased steadily over time.

And check this out:

Pa. 8th Graders' Field Trip Includes Hooters Lunch

I just came across this article, which was published last year, about a group of Pennsylvania 8th graders eating at Hooters, of all places, for lunch during a middle school's field trip to the National Aquarium in Baltimore, Maryland. There were about 100 students in total, plus teachers and other chaperones, and since the group was too large for a single restaurant, they were split up, and about 15-20 of the students, along with a few of their teachers and chaperones, ended up at Hooters. Now, Hooters is the original "breastaurant," which is a term that refers to restaurants, as well as coffee shops and cafes, that feature sexual undertones in the form of busty, scantily clad young women as waitresses. So, these 8th graders and their teachers and other chaperones randomly ended up at Hooters, and were exposed to scantily-clad young women.

Now, I've searched for more webpages on this, and the comments on these pages tend to be divided, with some thinking that it is no big deal for these 13-14-year-old boys (and girls) to be exposed to busty, well-endowed, fit scantily-clad young women (considering that the media overexposes children to things that are far worse), and others wondering "what were they thinking?" out of exposing children to the objectification of women (society tends to objectify the female body more so than the male body). The superintendent stated that he wished the chaperones chose another restaurant, but that none of the parents of these kids complained to him about it. The Hooters spokesperson also stated that they hold special events for all ages, including young school children, and that the Hooters waitresses like to see children and are nice with them. In all fairness, while these young women were wearing considerably skimpy outfits, they weren't too scantily-clad, as they were dressed just well enough to cover their private parts while still showing off a lot of skin, and they also did not strip, either. Many breastaurants describe themselves as "sexy-classy" and "sexy-cute," but not "sexy-trashy," and for the most part, I agree with them on that. Indeed, sex sells, but I don't think it should have to be sleazy, which is why I say that in many forms of media today, it is not so much sex in itself that sells anymore so much as shock and sleaze, and I don't think that shock and sleaze should be the norm. I'm okay with "personal aesthetic fan service," so long as it is not overly-erotic, and I'd even take my kids to some of these breastaurants.

Second, these students were 8th graders that are about 13-14 years old, and I would deduce that Hooters, as well as all other breastaurants, are about the equivalent of a PG-13-rated movie. But what if these students were in the 4th grade (about 9-10 years old) or even younger? 4th graders, I could probably tolerate, but I'm not sure if I'd want kindergarten/pre-K children eating there. Then again, we tend to see young women at beaches and swimming pools wearing bikinis that are even more revealing (some more than others) than the standard Hooters uniform (which is a tank top and short shorts), and we take our children there all the time.

How would you feel if your children were taken to Hooters (or any other breastaurant, for that matter), for lunch during a school field trip?

[Ouch!]

I can't take you seriously when you use terms like breastaurants and then also feel the need to define that term for us. You do realize that you're a parody of yourself, right? I mean, this has to be intentional. You can't honestly be unaware of how ridiculous you sound. If I was confident that you were a troll, it might be funny, but since I'm not it's really kind of sad.

[Shauna]

I wish I could re-do the Ciddies and have this win best thread. I don't think I've ever had so much enjoyment from a thread about a crappy song.

[Jinx]

SuperMillionaire: He likes things because they're good, or they're good because he likes them?

I was understanding his postion until he said "pole dancing is okay because it's art." Well, yeah, it certainly can be. Anyone who's seen the Cirque de Soleil stuff would agree; those are not at all sexual, but another mode of dance, definitely. But SM has skewed morals.

Morals are morals. You either follow your moral compass or you don't. You can't make up your own grey areas, and have them be right just because you say so.

[SuperMillionaire]

I can't take you seriously when you use terms like breastaurants and then also feel the need to define that term for us. You do realize that you're a parody of yourself, right? I mean, this has to be intentional. You can't honestly be unaware of how ridiculous you sound. If I was confident that you were a troll, it might be funny, but since I'm not it's really kind of sad.

What exactly do you mean by that?

SuperMillionaire: He likes things because they're good, or they're good because he likes them?

I was understanding his postion until he said "pole dancing is okay because it's art." Well, yeah, it certainly can be. Anyone who's seen the Cirque de Soleil stuff would agree; those are not at all sexual, but another mode of dance, definitely. But SM has skewed morals.

Morals are morals. You either follow your moral compass or you don't. You can't make up your own grey areas, and have them be right just because you say so.

Of course not. You have every right to your opinion; I just want to know exactly why you have that opinion. Be specific as to why you have the opinion that you have.

I like things that I think are good, and they're not good just because I like them. I'm sure I like some things that you also like, but we differ on some things.

[Shoeberto]

Of course not. You have every right to your opinion; I just want to know exactly why you have that opinion. Be specific as to why you have they opinion that you have.

Flight of the Concords wrote something on this that I feel reinforces your point, and I think everyone in the thread can benefit:

Other rappers diss me,
Say my rhymes are sissy,
What?
Why?
What? What? Why?
Why?
Be more constructive with your feedback.