Wakka is the best character, discuss

[Loony BoB]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.

None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right?

I lived in a city which was massively multicultural, too. I had friends from all ends of the world, all showing off their ethnicity. We acknowledged each other's race, but we didn't discriminate each other based on race - or at least, I certainly didn't. Some races still tended to stick together when it came to more private situations (ie best friends), I noticed that. But sometimes that is down to culture, personality, which classroom you were in (our school created classes based on IQ test results, and certain racial stereotypes were not done any favours by this, sadly)... it's not always a race thing.

I think saying racism exists to small degrees in almost everyone (if not everyone) is still potentially accurate, but with some people it's to such a minimal degree that I don't think it's worth calling them racist, so much as pointing out that certain things they do could be racist. Saying we're all racist on some level is like saying we're all evil on some level, when really there are a lot of very good people out there who happen to have a couple of bad things that they might do or have done. It doesn't make them evil by definition.

[Pete for President]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.

None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

I see your point. I'm not sure if the term exists (like I said, I'm no expert on the subject) but isn't there also something like social status racism or discrimination? If two religions of the same race judge each other as superior/inferior, can that be classified as racism? It's a grey area I guess, for where is the line between race? Is it purely in genes or do beliefs, traditions and values count too?

Another example; I live in a city of which 50% is not native Dutch and I have always been to schools where all cultures are accepted. Yet all my friends are Dutch. I don't think I'm racist, yet why don't I have multicultural social contacts? I don't know. Makes you wonder if racism is built in, right?

I lived in a city which was massively multicultural, too. I had friends from all ends of the world, all showing off their ethnicity. We acknowledged each other's race, but we didn't discriminate each other based on race - or at least, I certainly didn't. Some races still tended to stick together when it came to more private situations (ie best friends), I noticed that. But sometimes that is down to culture, personality, which classroom you were in (our school created classes based on IQ test results, and certain racial stereotypes were not done any favours by this, sadly)... it's not always a race thing.

I think saying racism exists to small degrees in almost everyone (if not everyone) is still potentially accurate, but with some people it's to such a minimal degree that I don't think it's worth calling them racist, so much as pointing out that certain things they do could be racist. Saying we're all racist on some level is like saying we're all evil on some level, when really there are a lot of very good people out there who happen to have a couple of bad things that they might do or have done. It doesn't make them evil by definition.

Agreed, it can be a cultural cling thing and the degrees are also not entirely comprehendible for us yet, as those small amounts are socially accepted and not considered racist in the 'hard' form. We'll just have to see if even those small amounts can disappear. Maybe when our kids or grandkids are have established utopia where they live in perfect harmony with everything and all, they might say; "Gramps, you'd rather visit the Dutch supermarket rather than the multicultural one that was actually closer and of equal quality? You racist.". Who knows

[Shauna]

I don't agree with saying "this character flaw is going too far!" There's no such thing.

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

I really disagree with you on this Pike. Really disagree.

Boy, this escalated quickly. Nobody is saying we support a character if they do things like that, we're not thinking they are good guys for doing so.
I feel like you're getting morally good/bad characters, and characters that have good/bad characterisation confused. There's a big difference. That's why there are characters that are monstrous, that we can enjoy watching, yet never thinking "Wow, what they're doing is 100% correct!"

EDIT: Enjoy is possibly a bad word to describe how we feel when we watch a morally bad character. Someone help me here. :P

Anyway, regardless of that, my main point was that Wakka may be racist, and he works to overcome it, but that doesn't make him a character with bad characterisation. The opposite is true, I find, in this case.

[Loony BoB]

Lesser degrees for example are the ginger kid not getting picked in gym class, not daring to look the homeless person in the eye, or judging when someone works at McDonalds and I'm pretty sure everyone judges by the looks, probably even you. But that is all in the way we are brought up.

None of these things are racist because none of them are to do with race (not liking ginger haired people shouldn't be confused with racism, although it's just as bad/ignorant).

I see your point. I'm not sure if the term exists (like I said, I'm no expert on the subject) but isn't there also something like social status racism or discrimination? If two religions of the same race judge each other as superior/inferior, can that be classified as racism? It's a grey area I guess, for where is the line between race? Is it purely in genes or do beliefs, traditions and values count too?

Prejudice is the word you're looking for, and yes, everyone is most certainly prejudiced to some degree.

[Pike]

So would you support a character if he or she raped another character ?
Would you support a character if he or she was a paedophile ?

There is a huge difference between "personally supporting" a character and a character being interesting. Plenty of heavily flawed and amoral characters, villain or no, are interesting, good characters. As Shauna said.

Have you read Crime and Punishment by Fyodor Dostoyevsky? It's one of the pinnacles of Russian fiction. The main character, the hero of the story, named Rasknolnikov, murdered an old woman in cold blood. That doesn't stop him from being the main character and being someone we can relate to as he goes through his character arc (which is directly related to his murder.)

retarded

I'm kind of surprised that you are so against offensive racism and then turn around and use a term that is offensive to mentally disabled people

[Pumpkin]

To me Wakka is like a nice enough guy who you don't mind seeing at a dinner party here and there but you don't want to see him all of the time.

[maybee]

I think that most people here don't get the idea that I'm trying to get across here. Wakka is not a well developed character and his racism and let complaining to the Yevon Higher-Ups is annoying and is really unlikeable.

Most people here seem to think that Wakka recovered from flaws in a well-written manner but it wasn't. It was quick and short and un-detailed. If Wakka's changing from his negative flaws was well done like Kain Highwind's heel-face-turn or Zidane's transformation from Playboy horny teen to kind and caring hero to everybody then Wakka would be a good character, but it wasn't.

Take Vivi from Final Fantasy IX going to a awkward and shy little Black Mage to a badass that takes no trout from nobody, not even Kuja.

I'm kind of surprised that you are so against offensive racism and then turn around and use a term that is offensive to mentally disabled people

I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.


Edit : Speaking of Kuja heres a good example of a good and well written character despite having huge flaws. He's the villain for most of the game and does some right terrible trout. But unlike Wakka, he's actually a good written character and a good character because he actually realizes that he did wrong and even says sorry towards Zidane and even wishes that he could of had a second chance at life. Kuja = Brilliant. Wakka = Fail

[Pike]

I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.

I know a ton of LGBT community members and most of them are very against the term in that context. I don't use it out of respect for them.

But now I'm offtopic

[maybee]

I can't say " That's so Gay " anymore either ? Even though I'm Bi.

I know a ton of LGBT community members and most of them are very against the term in that context. I don't use it out of respect for them.

But now I'm offtopic

To be honest I hate that term as well and I apologize for the " retarded " comment if it's insulted anybody here.

Yes get back on topic so we can debate !

[Madame Adequate]

Most people here seem to think that Wakka recovered from flaws in a well-written manner but it wasn't. It was quick and short and un-detailed. If Wakka's changing from his negative flaws was well done like Kain Highwind's heel-face-turn or Zidane's transformation from Playboy horny teen to kind and caring hero to everybody then Wakka would be a good character, but it wasn't.

But it wasn't sudden at all, it starts at Mushroom Rock Road and the arc isn't completed until at least after you fight Yunalesca. That's like 80% of the game.

Edit : Speaking of Kuja heres a good example of a good and well written character despite having huge flaws. He's the villain for most of the game and does some right terrible trout. But unlike Wakka, he's actually a good written character and a good character because he actually realizes that he did wrong and even says sorry towards Zidane and even wishes that he could of had a second chance at life. Kuja = Brilliant. Wakka = Fail

If you think Kuja is a good villain, a good character, or a good anything, you are actually a crazy person.

[Pumpkin]

I think the point of Wakka is something like this: (sorry for the long post)

Nice guy with character flaw (racist).
Racism is somewhat understandable since many people he loved have died because of Sin and he grew up being told that Sin would disappear if things like Machina would. Al Bhed use Machina, Wakka thinks that if they would just STOP then Sin would go away. He thinks the Al Bhed are being selfish and allowing more people to die indirectly. Ít's hard for him to look past this because like Lulu said at one point, its the world that they're in, it's what they know, they don't really think to ask questions.
Again, this doesn't excuse it because Lulu and Yuna are more accepting, but I think that's because they're more rational, logical people. Wakka is in a bad place because his parents were killed, his brother was killed, he just wants Sin gone. Yevon provided something for him to direct his anger towards (the Al Bhed) and he does just that. Most people in a situation like that will look for someone to blame. Even Lulu does it to an extent with Chappu's death. I think she can just handle her emotions better and probably already passed the phase Wakka is going through. People will look to cast blame in desperate situations. I have some theories as to why, but I can't say I know for sure. I do know that this is common and Wakka is pretty average in that he deals with his anger and grief in this way.

Basically he blames Sin for the death of his loved ones, and he blames the Al Bhed for Sin to a degree because that's what he know and that's what he was told. He might be the only main character that extreme about it, but you see NPCs who are very similar. To them Yevon's teachings are truth. It's just how it is.

Despite his conditioning, despite his loss, anger, grief, sadness. Despite his hatred for Sin, and everything in his life he has been taught, he is able to accept Rikku as a person. He is able to see she is a good person even if she is an Al Bhed. He shows some sympathy when Home is destroyed (even though he tries not to). After a while he accepts that the Al Bhed are people who want the same thing as him, Sin gone. They're just going about it a different way. When Yevon is shown for the hypocrites they are, you can tell it hurts him inside, but he deals with it. He admits when he's wrong and moves forward.

All this being said, he's kind of middle of the road for me. I don't dislike him because he's a racist, he's just honestly not my type of guy.

[maybee]

But it wasn't sudden at all, it starts at Mushroom Rock Road and the arc isn't completed until at least after you fight Yunalesca. That's like 80% of the game.

What ?

" Why are you such frauds Yevon " ?

" Why are you such frauds Yevon " ?

" Seymouuur, why are you a fraud " ?

" Yevon are such frauds, I don't believe why they could be such frauds " !

" I'll shut up now "

Woooooo. Great Character development there !

tumblr_m13h89zWXv1ql5yr7o1_400.gif

If you think Kuja is a good villain, a good character, or a good anything, you are actually a crazy person.

Why ? Because he's actually a good and decent character and actually has GOOD character development and has a touching apology and death scene ? Yup, completely crazy.

[TrollHunter]

The only thing i hate about wakka is his hair, and his voice actor.
Those 2 things make me want to beat a baby with a puppy.
Other than that... Hes alright.

[Matthewtheman]

Wakka's one of my favorite's from X, but I prefer Auron.

[Pike]

Yeah, Auron is a badass.