Are JRPGs Proving Unpopular in the West?

[Wolf Kanno]

Found this amusing article and while I don't necessarily agree with some of the articles points, I do feel the topic itself is valid. So do you agree disagree? Why and Why not? Is it because people want hyper-"realism" and those cartooney designs are turning Westerners away? Or do you feel its more about the genre regurgitating too many of its own elements making every game a bit too predictable? Or is it because the genre is trying too hard to emulate other successful franchises? Perhaps you feel feel the article is wrong and will simply point out the genre is alive and well just on handheld and then proceed to go into a rant about the gaming community's total racism against handheld gaming?

[Shauna]

I was gonna come in and say that they're probably doing okay in Europe since we were handed the Operation Rainfall titles without having to fight tooth and nail for them, but then I noted the article was about America.

I would honestly say that RPGs are just a niche genre. They probably don't sell as well as other titles/genres, which is where the notion that America doesn't want them comes from. I imagine it's the same thing that's plaguing horror games - they don't sell as well as other genres, therefore nobody wants it. Not unpopular, but not as popular, and that's risky business. :3

[Pike]

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of it had to do with the Xbox's rise. Unlike Nintendo, Sega, and Playstation, Xbox was never big in Japan and there weren't many Japanese games developed for either of its incarnations so far. So as Xbox slowly chips away at Sony's base, Japanese games get less exposure.

I could be way off the mark, I suppose, but it's a thought

[Skyblade]

Go to the General Square Enix forum and explain why Final Fantasy has topped the PSN charts for so long. Explain why the best selling game on the Vita is Persona 4 Golden. Ni No Kuni or the Operation Rainfall games also spring to mind. JRPGs seem to be doing fine to me.

[Depression Moon]

They've been unpopular since the beginning among the casual crowd, regarding the core, yeah now I'm seeing less and less of them than before. Back in the PS1 and 2 days I had no problems finding a good amount of quality JRPGs. I just want them to come back some day soon, because I miss them.

[Del Murder]

They're unpopular because there hasn't been as many good ones as there have been in the past.

[Slothy]

I really don't think they're unpopular in the West, I just think that the core audience that likes them has never been as big as people imagined it was.

Basically think of Final Fantasy as the Call of Duty of the genre. It generally sells a lot, but most games in the genre have never, and can never expect to, sell as much as that.

but we do see fewer JRPG's these days than we used to, and I think the reason why kind of spirals out of my point above: AAA development is expensive and the Japanese market has kind of shifted more towards handhelds and mobile devices than it used to be. There's certainly still a console market there, but it's hard to make a JRPG with AAA production values and sell enough to make a profit. Even when the name on the cover is Final Fantasy.

There's a reason that there seems to have been a number of higher profile JRPG's coming out on the Wii and DS instead of the PS3 or 360 in the last several years. Selling a few hundred thousand units, or even just tens of thousands, is just more reasonable on those platforms.

[Bolivar]

Final Fantasy XIII sold more copies on PS3 alone than Mass Effect 2 did on every platform combined. The Elder Scrolls throws a wrench into this comparison, but those games are on the popularity level of Mario and Call of Duty. Final Fantasy was never that popular and few games in history have been.

Every genre has its winners and losers and just because a few JRPGs sold a paltry amount of copies does not overcome how Eschalon: Book One, Gothic 4, or Legend of Grimrock did the same.

To answer some other OP icebreakers:

Or do you feel its more about the genre regurgitating too many of its own elements making every game a bit too predictable? Or is it because the genre is trying too hard to emulate other successful franchises?

I think everyone on this forum will agree, this definitely isn't endemic to JRPGs, much less Japan.

RPGs just aren't popular, period. It's why every Western one who goes or tries to go big has eliminated all vestiges of RPG mechanics in order to appeal to the masses. So has the new trend of Japanese Action RPGs like Monster Hunter, God Eater and Dark Souls.

In any case, it doesn't matter. There's still lots of great JRPGs coming out, on handheld and console. Even PC now that Ys is all over Steam.

[Del Murder]

Final Fantasy XIII sold more copies on PS3 alone than Mass Effect 2 did on every platform combined.

That's simply false, unless you talking about global sales, which is not the point of this thread. ME2 on 360/PS3 sold more than FFXIII on PS3 in North America and Europe. This doesn't even count all the PC sales ME2 had.

[Pike]

The Elder Scrolls throws a wrench into this comparison, but those games are on the popularity level of Mario and Call of Duty.

Elder Scrolls was pretty damn niche until Skyrim came along. Arena and Daggerfall were hardcore DOS dungeon-crawling territory. Morrowind and Oblivion were popular and sold fairly well, but they were far from being any sort of global phenomenon. I was working at GameStop when Oblivion came on the scene and no one gave a crap. Meanwhile there were midnight releases for Halo 3 and World of Warcraft expacs. Skyrim is the game that put TES on the map.

(Sorry, I get touchy when it comes to TES )

[Shauna]

I just did a little bit of digging and FFXIII didn't sell that much better in NA compared to Japan. 1.87mil sales compared to the 1.57mil in NA. But then you could chalk that up to people around the world just not liking FFXIII. xD

EDIT: That was just PS3 sales! Including the Xbox sales kicks FFXIII up a bit in NA...

2.7mil in NA, and 1.88mil in Japan.

(Source of figures here http://www.vgchartz.com/)

[Slothy]

Final Fantasy XIII sold more copies on PS3 alone than Mass Effect 2 did on every platform combined.

That's simply false, unless you talking about global sales, which is not the point of this thread. ME2 on 360/PS3 sold more than FFXIII on PS3 in North America and Europe. This doesn't even count all the PC sales ME2 had.

Looking at the vgchartz info it would seem that FFXIII just barely outsold Mass Effect 2 in the West (by about 300,000 copies), but I don't buy those numbers. They indicate that PC sales in North America were literally zero. Sales numbers for digital platforms like Steam just aren't available anywhere and the game has been available for download on PS3 and I'd assume 360 as well for quite some time. There's no way I could be convinced with the available data that Mass Effect 2 was outsold by FFXIII.

[Shadowdust]

Found this amusing article and while I don't necessarily agree with some of the articles points, I do feel the topic itself is valid. So do you agree disagree? Why and Why not? Is it because people want hyper-"realism" and those cartooney designs are turning Westerners away? Or do you feel its more about the genre regurgitating too many of its own elements making every game a bit too predictable? Or is it because the genre is trying too hard to emulate other successful franchises? Perhaps you feel feel the article is wrong and will simply point out the genre is alive and well just on handheld and then proceed to go into a rant about the gaming community's total racism against handheld gaming?

I don't think there's any one thing that has led to a lack of interest from western markets. Between poor advertising, long development periods, and lackluster innovation in gameplay mechanics the genre has simply lost notice. And with prices for games being sky high at a time where the economy is struggling leads to a more cautious consumer.

I have found this to be an extremely underwhelming generation for JRPGs. I have a library of this genre spanning from the PSX and PS2 generations. And then I look at this generation, and my collection is sparse for any console I have. In order to accumulate what I have, it has taken three consoles and one handheld. That's unacceptable for success. How many people can really afford three consoles and then buy games for each at $60 minimum?

The real shame is that JRPG publishers have largely ignored the most affordable platform available, Steam for PC. With the advances in gaming worthy integrated graphics on PCs, it could be a largely lucrative market for Japanese publishers. And granted, piracy would increase in these games but so would their visibility. I am running into more and more PC gamers these days than I ever did in previous generations and I really think it is because of platforms like Steam which allow for some pretty affordable games. I personally find my own consoles collecting dust as I continue gaming on my PC instead.

Those are just a few thoughts I can drum up right now. Obviously, there's more to the story than what I think on the subject. The one thing I really hope for though is the return of the JRPG in its former glory to western gamers. I really miss kicking back with a new JRPG that doesn't require hand cramping on a handheld. :P

[Matthewtheman]

It depends on the JRPG. Ones from moar well-known JRPG series' such as FF, KH, and Pokemon are popular, but moar obscure JRPGs aren't.

[Bolivar]

If anyone can find any counterbalancing numbers that'd be awesome.

But even if Mass Effect 2 did sell 20,000 or so more copies in the West, I think the point stands that JRPG popularity isn't the big deal "journalists" make it out to be. It has big blockbusters, modest-sellers, and lesser-known entities just like any other genre.

And it's a great time to be a fan, especially in light of the last Nintendo Direct conference.