Am I going nuts...

[Fynn]

Don't worry I love XII, although it does have some flaws. I still think it has the least flaws, along with VI and IX. De gustibus non est disputandum.

[Quindiana Jones]

That's Latin for "don't try to express an opinion on stuff that's clearly gone over your head".

[Spooniest]

One might have said so in the first place

[maybee]

Good God I don't know who has time to read such long posts

Final Fantasy XII is good!

Good? Yes. Great? No. Groundbreaking? Not really.

Best game in the series? Definitely not.

Finally ! Somebody else here that doesn't place XII on a God Tier here on these Forums.

IMO this Forum should be re-named to Kiss Me Goodbye Final Fantasy; not Eyes on Me. Or we really, really Worship FF XII are are blind to it's major flaws, or try and excuse them.

If FF 8 had the tag-along like main lead and hint but not really at say.... Quistis... being the lead but not really, it would get bashed to Kingdom Come.

Don't worry

I love XII, although it does have some flaws

Yes ! That's what I'm trying to point out here ! That it has too many flaws to be the best ! Than-

I still think it has the least flaws

Nevermind.

[Fynn]

You're walking a thin line, maybee. I thought we were friends and here you are, being so mean to me for an asinine reason.

Guess what? I love VIII and I love II. I am sorry that you felt insulted by people not liking it. But I do, so your taking it out on me is hugely unfair.

Like I said earlier (in Latin ), everybody has their own taste. I don't understand why people hold X in such high regard, but that's their choice. I won't go calling them idiots, especially when they give me a reason why they like it. I may disagree, but I accept it. In the same vein I can declare XII is the best thing since sliced bread and you can disagree, naturally.

But for God's sake, show some respect! I know you're bitter that people don't like VIII around here, but this is not the place to take that all out and call people idiots.

[Synoptikal]

You're walking a thin line, maybee. I thought we were friends and here you are, being so mean to me for an asinine reason.

Guess what? I love VIII and I love II. I am sorry that you felt insulted by people not liking it. But I do, so your taking it out on me is hugely unfair.

Like I said earlier (in Latin ), everybody has their own taste. I don't understand why people hold X in such high regard, but that's their choice. I won't go calling them idiots, especially when they give me a reason why they like it. I may disagree, but I accept it. In the same vein I can declare XII is the best thing since sliced bread and you can disagree, naturally.

But for God's sake, show some respect! I know you're bitter that people don't like VIII around here, but this is not the place to take that all out and call people idiots.

Pardon the language here but this is the best way to say it...

[Quindiana Jones]

In China. Can't see video. Genuinely curious as to the nature of the joke. Please help.

[Formalhaut]

Okay okay, I've read everything in here since it's inception, and so now I guess I'll give my opinion on the matter.

For me, XII is one of my favourite Final Fantasies, but it is far from what I'd call 'godly'. In fact, I'd be very wary calling any game 'god-tier', because once you label a game that you assume it to be perfect, and no game is perfect. Besides, I'm not one for hyperbole anyway.

For me, XII is a game that tried changing the formula, and for the most part, I very much appreciate it. The battle system was pretty dynamic and different, especially coming after X's rather static system which I didn't love so much. I personally liked the gambit system, in so far that you can automate the more 'tiring' parts of battle, like constantly scrolling through menus, while still giving you overall control through the use of overrides and turning them off if you wanted. I liked them, and it works with XII. But again, there are flaws. The main one for me is how XII really underpowered Magic. While certainly, in the early to middle game, Magick certainly has uses, by the time you get the stronger weapons and can start chaining and berserking with the best of them, Magick is ponderous, and also suffers from the inherent lag of the battle system. In XII, there is a quirk called 'Effect Capcity', which governs how many abilities can be used simultaneously. Spells with the maximum capacity of 8 (Holy, Flare, all the good ones) can only be cast when no other abilities are taking place. This means Ashe can be waiting quite a long time just to cast Scathe. Of course, normal attacks can be used regardless, making them just so much better to use most of the time.

But that's just the battle system. In terms of story, I like the mature, understated nature of it. You rarely actually meet Vayne, but you are told of his menace throughout from cut-scenes and mere talk of the empire. It is as someone here said: he is a great villain because he doesn't show all his cards at once, blasting magick or what have you. He's more than content to just skulk in the background and turn wheels. Whether or not that was a wise choice, is another debate, but I really liked Vayne. But flaws! More flaws. The pacing of the game is somewhat one to be desired. It's strong in some points, and weak in others. After a good beginning, the plot slows during the Nalbina Dungeons, before picking up with Penelo's 'rescue', and then flatlining in the Sandsea. It's definitely a rollercoaster ride, and I understand people who haven't continued the story because they've hit a bit of stagnation. It's a slow burner of a story to be sure, but it does build and build, and, overall, despite it's pacing issues, it is good.

But I do agree that there is a lack of a definite main character. While sure, the trimurti of Ashe, Balthier and Basch seem to be the main three players in the game (more leaning towards Ashe as the most important of the three) the fact that they couldn't get the main character right in the first place is a nagging annoyance. Never has a official main character been so fundamentally useless. Sure, Vaan does have his good points. He is the main character during the beginning sections of the game, assists Ashe from time to time with her 'visions' and generally fulfils the 'clueless young guy' slot (preceded by Tidus, of course), but yeah, I never cared for Vaan. He is our 'eyes', but that alone isn't enough to make him the main character, not by a long shot. I do agree with people bemoaning this, because it is a mistake I feel. Ashe would have made a great main character. Heck, she is the de facto main character!

I'm rambling now. But I'll end with the side-quests. I rather liked them! I never felt particularly pressured to do any of the hunts or other sidequests, and to be honest, I find it difficult to not casually do some hunts anyway. I like the story behind the plight of the petitioner, and how happy you make him or her after smiting the mark. I refute this point very much so. The side-quests were one of the best bits of the game. It made it so... vast. Of course, here is another flaw that I'll concede. You often have so many side-quests that the story stagnates because you're busy doing everything! If you're a perfectionist like me, you do everything as and when you can, and well, I spend a good few hours doing everything I can before marching on. The replayability is great too with so many good challenges you can self-impose. 122333, or No Licence board, or Solo Challenge, etc.

But I've said, far, far, far too much. In brief, while I certainly understand and accept some of the flaws of XII, for me, at least, it is a good game. Naturally, everyone is different, and their view of what a good game should be will vary. That's why I say no game can be a god-tier game. Everyone's different.

[TrollHunter]

long postOkay okay, I've read everything in here since it's inception, and so now I guess I'll give my opinion on the matter.

For me, XII is one of my favourite Final Fantasies, but it is far from what I'd call 'godly'. In fact, I'd be very wary calling any game 'god-tier', because once you label a game that you assume it to be perfect, and no game is perfect. Besides, I'm not one for hyperbole anyway.

For me, XII is a game that tried changing the formula, and for the most part, I very much appreciate it. The battle system was pretty dynamic and different, especially coming after X's rather static system which I didn't love so much. I personally liked the gambit system, in so far that you can automate the more 'tiring' parts of battle, like constantly scrolling through menus, while still giving you overall control through the use of overrides and turning them off if you wanted. I liked them, and it works with XII. But again, there are flaws. The main one for me is how XII really underpowered Magic. While certainly, in the early to middle game, Magick certainly has uses, by the time you get the stronger weapons and can start chaining and berserking with the best of them, Magick is ponderous, and also suffers from the inherent lag of the battle system. In XII, there is a quirk called 'Effect Capcity', which governs how many abilities can be used simultaneously. Spells with the maximum capacity of 8 (Holy, Flare, all the good ones) can only be cast when no other abilities are taking place. This means Ashe can be waiting quite a long time just to cast Scathe. Of course, normal attacks can be used regardless, making them just so much better to use most of the time.

But that's just the battle system. In terms of story, I like the mature, understated nature of it. You rarely actually meet Vayne, but you are told of his menace throughout from cut-scenes and mere talk of the empire. It is as someone here said: he is a great villain because he doesn't show all his cards at once, blasting magick or what have you. He's more than content to just skulk in the background and turn wheels. Whether or not that was a wise choice, is another debate, but I really liked Vayne. But flaws! More flaws. The pacing of the game is somewhat one to be desired. It's strong in some points, and weak in others. After a good beginning, the plot slows during the Nalbina Dungeons, before picking up with Penelo's 'rescue', and then flatlining in the Sandsea. It's definitely a rollercoaster ride, and I understand people who haven't continued the story because they've hit a bit of stagnation. It's a slow burner of a story to be sure, but it does build and build, and, overall, despite it's pacing issues, it is good.

But I do agree that there is a lack of a definite main character. While sure, the trimurti of Ashe, Balthier and Basch seem to be the main three players in the game (more leaning towards Ashe as the most important of the three) the fact that they couldn't get the main character right in the first place is a nagging annoyance. Never has a official main character been so fundamentally useless. Sure, Vaan does have his good points. He is the main character during the beginning sections of the game, assists Ashe from time to time with her 'visions' and generally fulfils the 'clueless young guy' slot (preceded by Tidus, of course), but yeah, I never cared for Vaan. He is our 'eyes', but that alone isn't enough to make him the main character, not by a long shot. I do agree with people bemoaning this, because it is a mistake I feel. Ashe would have made a great main character. Heck, she is the de facto main character!

I'm rambling now. But I'll end with the side-quests. I rather liked them! I never felt particularly pressured to do any of the hunts or other sidequests, and to be honest, I find it difficult to not casually do some hunts anyway. I like the story behind the plight of the petitioner, and how happy you make him or her after smiting the mark. I refute this point very much so. The side-quests were one of the best bits of the game. It made it so... vast. Of course, here is another flaw that I'll concede. You often have so many side-quests that the story stagnates because you're busy doing everything! If you're a perfectionist like me, you do everything as and when you can, and well, I spend a good few hours doing everything I can before marching on. The replayability is great too with so many good challenges you can self-impose. 122333, or No Licence board, or Solo Challenge, etc.

But I've said, far, far, far too much. In brief, while I certainly understand and accept some of the flaws of XII, for me, at least, it is a good game. Naturally, everyone is different, and their view of what a good game should be will vary. That's why I say no game can be a god-tier game. Everyone's different.

For anyone wondering, these are my exact thoughts on the game. I've made many mini-reviews and apparently they all combined into this.

In summary: I can understand the flaws in this game and I am certainly not denying them. Many things are love-or-hate about this game, and I just happen to fall on the love side. Many arguments against this game are valid, as are ones rooting for it. It's called taste and preferences. We all have them. No I do not consider this game perfect or god-tier (actually... has anyone made that statement other than those accusing us?), but I do consider it my favorite final fantasy.
Though I will say, even though I may consider someones points valid, I will debate until they can understand where I'm coming from... and then probably debate some more because I find it enjoyable.

Just... avoid insulting others if you want to be even remotely credible in this discussion. We're all friends here, let's keep it civil.

[Edge7]

Bottom line, I view Final Fantasy XII like I view Zelda 2: Adventure of Link: Is it a great entry in the series? Well, it works; the games got pacing issues, and can be a bit too spread out for its own good, but it's definitely not breaking any records. Does that prevent me from finding the game immensely refreshing? Of course not; part of the reason I love FFXII so much is because it feels so different from what I'm used to, and it works (for me, anyway).

[maybee]

You're walking a thin line, maybee. I thought we were friends and here you are, being so mean to me for an asinine reason.

I'm not but I'm sorry if you feel this way. I was being mean towards XII not you White Wizard of Fynn.

Guess what? I love VIII and I love II. I am sorry that you felt insulted by people not liking it. But I do, so your taking it out on me is hugely unfair.

Again I'm NOT

I was taking it on THE GAME, NOT YOU

I won't go calling them idiots

What ?

I have never called you a idiot.

Now I feel like everybody here is twisting thing here because I don't like what they like which is extremely unfair and now making me out to be this terrible villain only because I don't like XII

In the post above which everybody hated; I only mentioned that this Forum is biased towards XII not that everybody here is a smurfing idiot. That most members here are blind towards XII flaws and place it on a God- Like Pedestal.

Never called you or anybody here dumb; Talk about twisting things.

I can declare XII is the best thing since sliced bread and you can disagree, naturally.

Thanks ? Not that I trust you or most people here now because I feel like If you disagree that XII isn't at least good you are some type of Villain that must be abused. Thanks guys.

But for God's sake, show some respect! I know you're bitter that people don't like VIII around here, but this is not the place to take that all out and call people idiots.

Oh my gosh ! I never said anything like that !!! WTF ?

Finally ! Somebody else here that doesn't place XII on a God Tier here on these Forums.

IMO this Forum should be re-named to Kiss Me Goodbye Final Fantasy; not Eyes on Me. Or we really, really Worship <acronym title="Final Fantasy XII" style="border-bottom-width: 0px; border-bottom-style: none; cursor: auto; border-top-width: 0px !important; border-right-width: 0px !important; border-left-width: 0px !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important;">FF XII</acronym>are are blind to it's major flaws, or try and excuse them.

If <acronym title="Final Fantasy VIII" style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: 'trebuchet ms'; border-bottom-width: 0px; border-bottom-style: none; cursor: auto; border-top-width: 0px !important; border-right-width: 0px !important; border-left-width: 0px !important; border-top-style: none !important; border-right-style: none !important; border-left-style: none !important;">FF 8</acronym> had the tag-along like main lead and hint but not really at say.... Quistis... being the lead but not really, it would get bashed to Kingdom Come.

NO IDIOT CALLING JUST CALLING THIS FORUM A LITTLE BIASED WHEN IT COMES TO FF 12 smurfCAKES

Yes ! That's what I'm trying to point out here ! That it has too many flaws to be the best ! Than-


Originally Posted by The White Wizard of Fynn

I still think it has the least flaws





Nevermind.

Again NO idiot calling. Just pointing out the blindness towards FF XII's massive collection of flaws. Enough to stink a Battleship. smurf I might as well go out to Hot Topic get some Make- Up and a Mixture of clothes and be Kefka because smurf... I'm just this terrible, awful, dreadful person that dislikes FF 12. smurf. My. Life.

And I stopped the crazy/ yeah you are crazy go see a Doctor things so yeah.

[Quindiana Jones]

They don't attack everyone who dislikes FFXII. Only you. Perhaps you should look into that.

[Synoptikal]

Can't we all just get along? We all like Final Fantasy here. Let's put them all on a pedestal. :P

[maybee]

They don't attack everyone who dislikes FFXII. Only you. Perhaps you should look into that.

I never called anybody a idiot and I stopped with the passive-aggressive jokes.

That was completely twisting things and is really, really extremely unfair.

In my OPINION some members here place FF XII on a Pedestal and in my OPINION FF XII is not the best, it's one of the worst and in a OPINION FF XII gets placed on a pedestal here even though it has some huge flaws; but they get ignored while FF VIII and FF X here get bashed to the moon and back for their huge flaws.

Get how I feel now ???

Go ahead rename me to that evil smurfing horrible evil bitch that hates FF XII. i don't care......

[Quindiana Jones]

I was just pointing out that this isn't the first time on EoFF that people have taken issue with your methods of discussing things.