Am I going nuts...

[Shin Gouken]

I possibly need to both eloborate and better articulate my argument concerning Tidus because your response doesn't really address my problems and appears to be defending Tidus about claims I havn't made.

I didn't say Tidus was a bad character or that he doesn't get any development. Characters like Tidus exist and aren't anywhere near as hated and his development is something only an idiot would deny. My issue with him is that he's a bad protagonist. Sure, he relays information to the player well enough, but that doesn't excuse the irritating character traits that plague you for the entire game. In fact, Jecht was in pretty much the same position as Tidus but Jecht didn't whine or throw tantrums. Jecht matured by the end of his journey too and let's face it, he was a far more entertaining character.

It takes a little more than development to make a character good. You can tack on development to anyone and use it to justify them as a character. Look at Jack Sparrow. He has carried 4 movies but has zero development. You really know nothing about him but he's an entertaining character that people enjoy watching. If you're going to be spending 50+ hours with someone, don't give them every annoying trait you can think of. Make them intersting, entertaining and most important; likable. Then you can give them development.

You can't go to a FF board without seeing Tidus hate topics. This is because his character traits are universally accepted as being annoying traits. You never see an "I hate Yuna" or an "I hate Balthier" topic. That's because they aren't annoying. We could debate Balthiers development and ties to the plot (which is minimal at best - and this coming from a FFXII fan) but he's a well loved character because he's interesting and likable. A protagonist (especially in a role playing game) should be somebody you want to be (as in role play) Why SE would choose to give their lead these universally agreed annoying character traits instead of giving us a character with more likable traits is beyond me. Tidus deserves the hate he receives because of what he is, regardless of how justified his actions might be or how well he's developed.

EDIT: Regarding your previous post.

Your denial of Vaan's influence on Ashe is a little bit funny. No offence. That's because this is his major role in the story (The same as Basch, Penelo, Balthier and Frans roles actually). You'll notice that Ashe has a major scene with each main character that addresses an issue that would affect her decision regarding the Sun Cryst. Her scene with Balthier on the Phon Coast for example has very little with giving Balthier further development. It's there to have an impact on Ashe. Balthier is trying to steer her off the path of being driven and corrupted by the desire for power ("Ever lusting for power, is that how you see me?") He's had first hand experience with his father and is trying to stop her from following the same path. Her scene with Basch addresses the horrors of war, and bearing the burden of shame when failing to protect her people even when she has the opportunity to do so. She would never had destroyed the Sun Cryst (leaving herself powerless, unable to get revenge, unable to stop the empire and unable to free her people) without the lessons she learns from her companions.

If the point of Tidus's whining and tantrums was to influence Yuna, it genuinly makes me very sad that they couldn't find a better way to achieve it. Personally, I don't see Tidus's involvement myself. Yuna comes to many realizations about the corrupt organization of Yu Yevon and goes behind everyones back when dealing with Seymour (Because they would try and stop her which only shows that she's prepared to do the "right" thing always.) Rikku does her part in influencing Yuna and Auron leads them into battle with Yunalesca which has nothing to do with Tidus. But regardless, I don't have a problem with Tidus's involvement in the plot. Only that an argument can be made to extract him with minimal changes to the outcome.

Good job justifying the laughing scene. Again. with all these complex thoughts and emotions regarding their fate, you'd think the devs could do a better job in portraying it onscreen. I get the purpose behind it but it really doesn't achieve what you think it does. You've tacked all this on to an otherwise silly scene that could have portrayed their emotions far more effectively another way.

As for Vaan. He's not a sports star with an alcoholic father and a lifestyle where everything is handed to him. He's an orphan that has already had to learn to take care of himself. That's why he doesn't whine. And he's watching refugess being slaughtered and accompanying someone who intends to destroy the empire and hundreds of thousands of people. Of course he matures quickly. It isn't unnatural for such real issues to have a major impact on your thoughts and feelings. If anything, it's unnatural that it took Tidus so long to mature even when watching Sin decimate entire villages.