A protagonist should be someone you want to be, yes. But, more than that, it should be someone you can relate to. Someone you can see yourself as.
A famous sports star isn't the best choice of character if you want them to be relatable. I wonder how many people playing FFX are rich and famous or showboating numbskulls.

As i said, you don't need to be stupid to be ignorant. And again, Jecht is ignorant of Spira and is capable of showing his emotions without it being whiny or child like.

Tidus works here because of his annoyances. Take a moment to think for a minute. How would you actually act if you were thrust into Spira? How quickly would you relate to a world filled to the brim with despair? How accepting would you be of your new circumstances? If you met Auron, how forgiving of him would you be for bringing you there, stealing your friends and life from you?
I've had this discussion before and the answer might surprise you. This is roughly the kind of tone you would see if i had just met Auron under the same circumstance as Tidus -

"Auron! Wtf man? You've got some explaining to do. Well come on, spit it out, i want answers. You realize this is all your fault?"

It's more or less the same point Tidus wishes to make, but where i'm showing impatience and anger, Tidus is throwing himself at Auron in a hissy fit. When my own personal reaction is more dignified than the protagonists, why would i want to role play as the protagonist? Let's try another one...

Temple Bloke - "Our precepts must be obeyed"
Me - "Obey this" *grabs crotch*

Hmm, not in Final Fantasy perhaps =P

If you try to relate to him, to immerse yourself in that character, a lot of those moments make sense. They're understandable, and I can even empathize with them.
Perhaps this is the problem. People have difficulty immersing themselves into Tidus's character because he's not very likable. I personally have difficulty immersing myself into a character i don't like. But i also have difficulty pretending to be a character that makes it look like i have a better chance of saving the world myself. I want to be Auron, or Jecht, hell, even Wakka.


I like Tidus as a character because I find him realistically portrayed, well written, and well developed. I can relate to him because his circumstances and reactions are well crafted. And I can admire him because he does grow up and become a hero. That is what I look for in a protagonist.
Hmm. I don't know any adults who throw tantrums like Tidus does. Can we be honest for a second here... his actions are what you would expect from a child. Adults can control their behaviour in public even in a place they are unfamiliar with... in fact more so in a place they are unfamiliar with. What if the punishment for entering the forbidden place in the temple was death. Short game. Tidus doesn't know where he is and has already been abducted by the Al Bhed at that point. There's being stupid and then there's Tidus.

While that's great, it still doesn't address Vaan's contribution to her decision. If he did have a similar scene, what did it teach her?
Gabranth: You claim no need of power? What of your broken Kingdoms shame? The dead demand justice!
Vaan: You're wrong. I can't help my brother now. He's gone. He's dead.
Ashe: Even with power we cannot change what has passed. What is done is done.

Vaan helps her overcome her own desire for revenge by overcoming his. Vaan overcomes his desire for revenge when he realizes that there's a war coming and people are dying. The real world hits him hard and revenge is the last thing on his mind. Gabranth shows up and Ashe drops the Sword of Kings and raises the Treaty Blade ready to fight Gabranth. But Vaan, despite being confronted with his brothers killer, does not fight.

If you watch the scene at the Pharos, after this line...

Gabranth: No, we cannot escape the past, this man is living proof. What is your past, daughter of Dalmasca? Did you not swear revenge? Do the dead not demand it!

Ashe looks at Vaan. She holds his gaze for a full 18 seconds without a single line of dialogue. She swore revenge and is being prodded by Gabranth to take it. But it is Vaan that holds her back.


Everyone in Spira is consumed by despair. The entire world is built on the premise that the spiral never changes. People die, Sin always comes back, summoners die, machina are bad, etcetera. Tidus, by his very nature of never being exposed to any of this, never accepts any of it. Every time he asks her "what's wrong with machina" or why is some ritual performed, it makes her question the world's circumstances. Each time he just cheerfully assumes that Yuna's going to be fine after the journey, it makes her question her own mortality and path. These questions are what drive and change her.
Makes sense. My only problem with it is that i simply don't buy that Auron would have stood and watched as Braskas daughter and Jechts son fell to the same fate as their parents. Auron died trying to avenge his friends. He blames Yunalesca and tried to kill her once already. He lead them into battle with her fully intending to kill her. And again, why in hell would he have witheld all this information? Was it because he didn't want to interfere with her choice? Or more likley, if she had found out before, she'd never of made it to Zanarkand.


I think the devs did do a good job of portraying it on screen.
Pretending to laugh to reflect on darker emotions is a fine idea, it's the execution that robs that scene of any impact it was intended to make. It doesn't sound like forced laughter, it sounds like someone is falling down a very large set of stairs - "Ah ah ah ah ah ah ah". <_< You know it's true.

Right, because people don't work through their problems in their heads. Nope, everything must be resolved by talking about it to people and then, and only then will your problems magically be resolved. Do you honestly think that spending some time in a dungeon, being attacked by headhunters and being held prisoner on a warship had no impact on him just because he didn't have a heart to heart with Penelo or Balthier about it? This isn't Vaans story and we therefore don't get a long detailed path of development layed out for us. His character learns and he changes. We can see it happen (iirc other characters point this out but i'm drawing a blank on specifics). It sounds very much like you want Vaans development (the way it is executed i mean) to mimic Tidus's. It doesn't. If that hurts the story for you and prevents you from understanding Vaan, perhaps you'd be suited with a book rather than an RPG. You experience everything Vaan experiences so you should automatically have an idea of how he's feeling.

Hmm, now it's my turn to put you in Vaans shoes. (You cruelly made me do it for Tidus =p) Your parents are dead and the only thing you have left in the world is your brother. He goes to war and is killed. You can't understand why he would go to war when their is no chance he could possibly win and you can't ask him because he's dead. You want to make the people responsible suffer but are powerless to do so. So instead, you distract yourself with dreams of being free. Your chosen path leads you to being hunted by the headhunters, being thrown in a dungeon, being caught by the empire, watching your trusted allies betray you, watching the empire slaughter dozens of refugees, witnessing the destructive force of nethicite etc. Tell me... is revenge still the most important thing to you? If it is, perhaps this is your problem