Google's Deal to Buy Twitch

[Skyblade]

not unless the new thing is considerably better than the old thing.

That's the thing though. Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive. The only question is how long it will be before something else takes its place.

In fact, I'd say people migrating to Twitch because they couldn't put their content on YouTube is part of why Twitch grew as much as it did.

[Bolivar]

Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive.

I really doubt they spent $1B to partake in the compelling joy of copyright enforcement. You guys are insane.

Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

[Shauna]

I will reserve judgement until Google has run it into the ground. If they even do that.

Remember how Disney would ruin Marvel? What dicks.

[Vyk]

It still doesn't bode well considering how wreckless they've handled YouTube since its acquisition. So there is a reference point. Its not just a random corporation buying something. Its a corporation we know, buying something similar to something they've previously bought and previously attempted to ruin

I can only hope that they are aware of how horribly they've treated YouTube and want to buy Twitch to make up for it and treat it differently

Viacom and similar corporations are breathing down YouTube's throat, and barely a day goes by when Google isn't sued over something on YouTube. But Twitch doesn't have nearly the same problem. Nintendo's about the only big game company that might have a problem with YouTube streamers as far as I know. I think the only content ID matches that hit YouTubers are actually from music companies and not the game companies. And even then, when notified and they actually reply, they typically don't have a problem with YouTube streamers. It's just an automated system, based on them not wanting people to simply upload a song as a stand-alone, but they don't typically want to step on the game companies toes

I really hope they don't just unleash content ID bots on Twitch and take up a whole different stance without Viacom and RIAA asshats breathing down their throats

[Ayen]

Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to just run YouTube more efficiently?

[Dr Unne]

I will reserve judgement until Google has run it into the ground. If they even do that.

Sure, I'm reserving judgment too. I'm not giving up on Twitch just yet.

[Kalevala]

I've heard some users mention that this deal could give famous YouTubers (PewDiePie, for example) a huge boost on Twitch by allowing their subs to carry over, burying many Twitch-centric users.

Should compatibility and integration of the two services be kept at a minimum?

[Skyblade]

Twitch is now going to have Google's policies imposed on it. That means all of the Content ID and other copyright atrocities. Twitch is going to become basically unusable for its primary purpose. Twitch is not going to survive.

I really doubt they spent $1B to partake in the compelling joy of copyright enforcement. You guys are insane.

Duh? They spent a billion to acquire a new moneymaking platform. The joy of copyright enforcement is a side effect that is going to occur.

Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

It still doesn't bode well considering how wreckless they've handled YouTube since its acquisition. So there is a reference point. Its not just a random corporation buying something. Its a corporation we know, buying something similar to something they've previously bought and previously attempted to ruin

I can only hope that they are aware of how horribly they've treated YouTube and want to buy Twitch to make up for it and treat it differently

Viacom and similar corporations are breathing down YouTube's throat, and barely a day goes by when Google isn't sued over something on YouTube. But Twitch doesn't have nearly the same problem. Nintendo's about the only big game company that might have a problem with YouTube streamers as far as I know. I think the only content ID matches that hit YouTubers are actually from music companies and not the game companies. And even then, when notified and they actually reply, they typically don't have a problem with YouTube streamers. It's just an automated system, based on them not wanting people to simply upload a song as a stand-alone, but they don't typically want to step on the game companies toes

I really hope they don't just unleash content ID bots on Twitch and take up a whole different stance without Viacom and RIAA asshats breathing down their throats

Um, I hate to break it to you, but video game companies have done a ton to harm YouTube content producers.

YouTube has a "three strikes, you're out" policy on copyright ID. Each video that an infraction is laid upon earns you a strike, and three will shut down your account, and the network you're associated with if you are part of that program, automatically. They also have a "guilty until proven innocent" policy, where a claim made will issue a strike before any checks are run to test the validity of the claim (though I believe they have closed the holes in the system that allowed anyone to claim an copyright strike, even if they weren't the copyright holder on the content in question).

Let's start with the aforementioned Shining Force fiasco. With the release of Shining Ark upcoming, SEGA decided to cull any and all videos that would appear with a search for "Shining Force III". Not only videos showing gameplay footage, or still images, but any videos even discussing the game, if it rated high enough on the search that it would appear before the new trailer for Shining Ark.

First Google Link, but you can find a ton of info on it if you search.


Ok, so SEGA sucks, but that was back in 2012. Who else? Well, there was the time last year when Nintendo issued copyright claims on everyone hosting any of their software. Nintendo avoided issuing full copyright strikes, and instead laid claim to any and all advertising revenue that content producers made on videos that held any Nintendo content.

Kotaku article.

But, hey, Nintendo has reversed the policy, and set up a subsystem designed to split the profits with content creators, so that reviewers and LPers can still keep using Nintendo stuff. So that's another win, right?


But what about earlier this year, when FUN issued copyright strikes on TotalBiscuit for his review and his research stream on Guise of the Wolf, after he reviewed a game (after they agreed to let him review it), but reviewed it very poorly? That, if he had a third video, they would have shut down not only all of Polaris, but the entire Maker Studios YouTube network, all because FUN got upset with a bad review.
The review.
The research vid for his review, where he shows the raw gameplay that led to his conclusions in the review.

Google Links for "Total Biscuit Guise of the Wolf". Because there are dozens, and I'm way too lazy to look for one to link.


These are the first three things that jump to mind, but they are by no means exceptions. Go ahead and ask any serious YouTube content creator. Ask your favorite reviewer or Let's Player. They've probably had plenty of run-ins with copyright strikes. They don't like to talk about it, which is why they leave it out of their videos unless it gets huge, but if you ask, most of them will tell you.

YouTube has an absolutely draconian copyright policy. They side completely on the side of the copyright holders in every situation. The complaint need not be valid, the entire strike system is automated. There are still accounts that were closed down by SEGA's action two years ago, that have never come back up. Given that some YouTube content producers actually make videos as their job, this mean that YouTube will, entirely on a whim from a corporation with no legal leg to stand on, deprive people of their livelihoods.

Oh, certainly, you can fight back. Especially if you're a big enough member or connected with a large enough network. TotalBiscuit got those strikes removed, after all. But the strikes still occur (again, they're completely automated), and if you don't have those connections, those lawyers willing to fight for you? You're boned.



I fail to see why these policies would not spread to Twitch, now that they share the same owner.

[Bolivar]

Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

Wow, you really know me, don't you??? lol (damn you Skyblade)

The reason why Twitch is not going to shut down is because its streams are disproportionately dominated by a handful of PC multiplayer games. Blizzard and Valve aren't going to shut those streams down. Even if they did, the reason why Google is buying Twitch now is for how the next-gen console launches augmented Twitch's user base, a trend which will persist as the Xbox One and PS4 continue to shatter sales records. Both systems integrate Twitch streaming into their firmware, meaning that unless a publisher disables it, all games released on those platforms have already consented to their games being streamed.

Worst case scenario is we lose things like Twitch Plays Pokemon but I personally doubt it. For the overwhelming vast majority of its uses, it's only going to get bigger.

[Skyblade]

Please don't use the word atrocities when speaking about copyright.

When SEGA shut down YouTube accounts for merely TALKING ABOUT Shining Force III, I'm perfectly willing to call it an atrocity.

Wow, you really know me, don't you??? lol (damn you Skyblade)

Yeah, I figured that one might catch your attention.

The reason why Twitch is not going to shut down is because its streams are disproportionately dominated by a handful of PC multiplayer games. Blizzard and Valve aren't going to shut those streams down. Even if they did, the reason why Google is buying Twitch now is for how the next-gen console launches augmented Twitch's user base, a trend which will persist as the Xbox One and PS4 continue to shatter sales records. Both systems integrate Twitch streaming into their firmware, meaning that unless a publisher disables it, all games released on those platforms have already consented to their games being streamed.

Worst case scenario is we lose things like Twitch Plays Pokemon but I personally doubt it. For the overwhelming vast majority of its uses, it's only going to get bigger.

That's a fair point, and one I hadn't considered.

I do think that YouTube sets a precedent that people need to be wary of, though.

[Dr Unne]

I stream Spelunky while playing my music playlist with a bunch of music I don't have copyrights on. Am I going to get shut down? A lot of big streamers do the same thing, and make a living from their streams. Is Google or a copyright holder going to want a piece of that revenue?

Game Company X could be like "Yeah, stream our games all you want! And we get all of your ad revenue while you do!" Which is the equivalent of big streamers never streaming those games ever again.

[KentaRawr!]

Wait, people can make money from their streams? Maybe this is something I should do.

Google creeps me out, though.

[Dr Unne]

Wait, people can make money from their streams? Maybe this is something I should do.

Google creeps me out, though.

http://www.twitch.tv/p/partners Your stream needs to be a certain size, in terms of number of sustained viewers. Then you have to apply and see if you get it. Unless you stream very regularly and get a lot of viewers, you probably won't be approved.

[Vyk]

I forgot about SEGA's bull crap. But aside from that my point pretty much remains. What I meant was that when that content ID thing went into ridiculous mode a couple months ago, I wasn't really in the dark about what was going on. I watched a lot of videos discussing and revealing what was said behind closed doors and a lot of LP'ers and whatnot went live with what kind of relationships they've had with which companies in the past and what kinds of things got flagged, why they got flagged, and how it was resolved. And from my perspective it seemed like 90% of the big game companies (Ubisoft, Konami, Capcom, etc.) had absolutely no problem with people using their content. A couple companies had went so far as to make public statements on their webpages for easy access, so people could quickly and easily reply to YouTube and say hey look, they're okay with this, instead of having to find time to argue with YouTube on behalf of dozens (if not hundreds) of YouTubers. And it turned out that the vast majority of the hits were not so much due to game footage being triggered (though I know there were a couple instances of people posting trailers as part of an over-all review or story and got flagged, which was garbage) was music that was not technically the property of the game publisher but was actually merely licensed from a studio, and that studio was the owner who had to be disputed with

Maybe we've just heard different sides of the story. Mine's pretty anecdotal, but from the mouth of a lot of horses. I don't feel that a lot of the problem was the game companies, though they certainly weren't innocent and could have easily just requested all their content be voided from the content ID bots

Though I did watch a lot of Total Biscuits videos during that fiasco, and using him as an example doesn't really help anything. He's kind of a special case. There's tons of companies that just want to shut him up, so he gets flagged for things pretty much on a weekly basis over ridiculous stuff in lame attempts to remove his voice from the internet. Though I imagine it's not quite so bad these days, especially after the Day One: Garys Incident ... incident

[Gzussaves]

I swear i knew about the talks of this from over a year ago.. but anyways time for me to input my input

1. It hasnt happened yet.. and omg HEATH LEDGER IS GONNA PLAY THE JOKER WTFBBQLOL

2. Putting copyright on anything on twitch will basically mean google threw away $1b, lets just be honest here

3. If google buys out twitch.. the first thing i see them doing is upgrading the servers to actually be able to handle the streams, and to create better bots for those overfilled chatrooms with everyone raising their dongers

4. As a streamer i think it could be something good but who know.. for those of us that are trying to get partnered its nearly impossible due to the fact that you just sit on the bottom of the list.. as the saying goes, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"

all in all we will have to wait and see where this goes... will google buy out twitch?.. Will Google smurf it up if they do?... Will Tommy finally notice Kimberly?... I guess we will have to wait til next weeks episode to find out