Deus Ex Mankind Divided Pre-Order BS

[Pete for President]

I don't have a problem with pre-order bonuses, though. Stuff like bonus guns or bonus skins etc. just aren't something I care enough to purchase using DLC or through pre-order, but I appreciate the rewarding of people who are investing the full cost of the game without being able to test it out or get reviews from trusted friends. So if I get a pre-order bonus, I'm happy. If I don't think it's worth the extra cost, I wait and pay the lower cost. Pre-order bonuses is a practice I feel is perfectly fine.

Ouch, this hurts man : / I don't think anyone should ever give a developer trust before they deliver. Hyping is alright, but remember the days when all those bonuses were unlockables and used to keep playing the game longer, provide replay value, or were implemented for fun and thus delivering a better product? Locking content behind bars until you pay up is a scam for money no matter how you look at it.

I recommend watching some of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gm4JCFONptk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsgoD74vLIo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmNjpd6IvWY

[Ayen]

You're missing the most important vid of all:

[Loony BoB]

Eh. I just don't feel it's this major issue. I agree that certain types of content are an issue, and I agree that a lot of DLC is utter balls, but pre-order bonuses I'm just not so concerned about. The developers, publishers and retailers get more money from pre-ordered games and day one purchases than they do from pre-owned resales. I mean, do the developers get any money from pre-owned resales? I dunno. Either way, I do feel that the developer should reward those who are willing to shell out for the full price of the game. *shrug* And I say that despite buying a number of games pre-owned. I simply don't care that I missed out on character and weapon skins. If it's major content then as I've said, I agree, that's a bad thing. But meeeeeh. I'll agree to disagree with you guys on "all pre-order bonuses are inherently bad."

I haven't watched many of the various videos that have been provided (I've watched a couple) because I prefer reading to listening. If you're like me, then these two articles present good views from different angles.

http://kotaku.com/marketing-retailer...off-1635622765
http://kotaku.com/5909105/stop-preor...o-games-please

EDIT: I guess you could say that the best thing that could possibly happen to the pre-order system itself is for consumers to take every opportunity to cut out the retailers, who are the biggest driving force behind this. If you could buy every product digitally from the developer or publisher at an equal (or lower) price, this problem would probably decrease notably. I doubt that will be happening any time too soon, mostly because of pricing.

[Fox]

Either way, I do feel that the developer should reward those who are willing to shell out for the full price of the game. *shrug*

Well then we definitely need to scrap pre-order bonuses, because a lot of those come with discounts. '10% off if you pre-order/pre-purchase' is very common these days. So if what we're trying to reward is paying full price for the game, pre-order customers who get a discount should have content removed from the game. It's only fair.

If it's rewarding full price customers that is the important thing, then let's have 'full price' bonus - "Pay the full RRP to get new skins!" I still have a million problems with that, but at least it wouldn't hurt people who had the cheek to wait for reviews to come out before putting their money down. Encouraging people to blindly throw money at something unproven is pretty sleazy - as a developer I want people to buy my games because we've made a good game, not because we've overhyped something. And that's a key point as well - when you put money down for pre-orders you're putting money down for the game the publisher is promising you. "This is going to be the best game ever," they will say. And they'll show you all the really cool bits in the trailers. But they won't show you something representative.

Not all pre-order bonuses are particularly harmful individually, but they are all very harmful collectively. Because publishers are always going to try and push the limits, try to squeeze as much money out before the game is even finished as the possibly can. So when our default position is "weapon skins are fine as pre-order bonus content," then they're going to start seeing what else we'll accept. What about a weapon stat boost? That OK? Yeah? Then how about a whole new weapon, can you stomach that? Still paying? OK, how about a weapon pack? How about some new armour? How about a new NPC? Why not a new mission? Wouldn't you like an exclusive story prologue?

It's that kind of approach that has led to this situation of every other big budget game having microtransactions and DLC store. Give them an inch...

[Mirage]

If you like the idea so much Daniel, then I suggest they make two versions. One that has everything and costs 60 bucks for us who hate preorder dlc bulltrout, and one that has 80% and costs 60 bucks just for you ;D

[Loony BoB]

That makes no sense, but whatever. xD I have and always will judge a game by how good it is, not what bonuses I get. If it's good enough to justify the cost without the bonuses, then bonuses are just bonuses. If it's not good enough, it's not good enough.

My personal opinion is that everything that is obtained at the base price should come with everything included, absolutely. Almost every game that has had pre-order bonuses that I did not pre-order, I was still able to get with the pre-order bonuses when buying off the shelf on day one (or even month one) when the game was still at full price.

And again, it all depends on what the pre-orders actually are, and I will continue to not give a rat's arse about any non-gameplay bonuses (ie, skins).

[Shauna]

I felt this was hitting some points we have been saying!

[Mirage]

That makes no sense

exactly.

anyway the problem is that these practices encourage the dismantling of games into the most bare-bone product that they think they can get away with. and at the same time, they try to make gamers believe that it's "fine" because those who care for games that aren't just skin and bones can pay for meat as dlc.

before, a game that didn't have a lot of content was slaughtered because they didn't have a lot of content. now, gamers and the gaming press practically wait in line to make up excuses for them, just to justify their own terrible judgement that made them pre-order to get all the pretend-shinies

if you think there are any limits for how far game devs will try to push this trend, you are very mistaken. The only thing that will stop game developers and/or publishers to take this trend to the absolute extreme, is a counter-force in the form of consumer backlash. That means people like us being very vocal about how full of trout they are, instead of accepting the trout and getting so used to it that you literally don't notice that you're up to your nose in it.

you say you're fine with cosmetic pre-order bonuses and dlc, but not fine with entire stages or characters/vehicles/whatever? Well, what do you think they started with? this is a gradual process. First, they noticed they could get away with things like costumes being locked behind a preorder/dlc wall. Then they noticed that people got used to this, and then they noticed that they clould also get away with entire stages locked out. If people get used to one locked out stage or character, do you really think they won't try with two locked out stages next time?

You should never get used to it, because that just means you're ready for the next consumer-unfriendly move they've got in store.

[Loony BoB]

So draw the line at "non-cosmetic pre-order bonuses." I just don't see why bonuses full stop need to be annihilated or something. There's a reason pre-orders exist in the retail world, as detailed in the earlier Kotaku article.

If you want to get rid of pre-order bonuses, stop buying games from retailers. Hell, if everyone purchased direct from publishers, the price from the publisher might even drop! But it'll never happen because people like buying their games on the cheap, and retailers are the ones dictating the pre-orders, and retailers are also the ones where you get the games on the cheap.

[Spuuky]

Do you know what a prisoner's dilemma is? You can't just stop pre-ordering individually; everyone would have to collectively stop pre-ordering. If you stop and no one else does, you're even worse off (if you care about the bonuses) than if you continued.

The worst possible outcome for any individual is to stop pre-ordering individually without anyone else doing it. And the only thing any individual can control is their own actions. So all you can really do is be sad that the industry puts you in this stupid situation.

Luckily for me, I don't actually care about almost any pre-order bonuses, or this subject would make me livid.

[Old Manus]

Now you, too, can look like a pillock:

http://deusex.musterbrand.com/lookbook

(for one easy payment of £219)

edit: also release date pushed back a year, cheers for all your preorder cash

[Mirage]

So draw the line at "non-cosmetic pre-order bonuses." I just don't see why bonuses full stop need to be annihilated or something. There's a reason pre-orders exist in the retail world, as detailed in the earlier Kotaku article.

If you want to get rid of pre-order bonuses, stop buying games from retailers. Hell, if everyone purchased direct from publishers, the price from the publisher might even drop! But it'll never happen because people like buying their games on the cheap, and retailers are the ones dictating the pre-orders, and retailers are also the ones where you get the games on the cheap.

So what if I draw the line there? That doesn't mean trout as long certain other people just drown them in money at the mere glimpse of a binary string they've been told "only a few" will be able to put into their game.

There is no such thing as actually exclusive goods in the digital world. In the real world, items are exclusive because there simply isn't enough gold or diamonds (or saffron or whatever) in the world to give everyone one. That's why someone can not get it and are therefore excluded. For digital goods, there is no limit because you can make an infinite amount of copies of anything, and things are only exclusive because the developer or publisher has arbitrary decided that "this isn't for everyone and we want to milk the rich and smurf over those who aren't as rich". I dislike one of those types of exclusivity because one stems from actual resource scarceness and the other stems from pure greed. Have you seen what they sell the "full game" for these days? It's nearly a hundred bucks in some cases. The stripped down versions are of course sold for the filthy peasants who can only scrape together enough to buy the stripped down version of the game.

Furthermore, preorder bonuses aren't exclusive to retail stores anymore. You find them on lots of digital preorders too.

[Loony BoB]

edit: also release date pushed back a year, cheers for all your preorder cash

D: srsly?