Final Fantasy VIII is Trash

[Skyblade]

Overall, I like the game. However, the Junction system is trash.

It's a neat idea. And it's a fairly new one, so it's expected to have some flaws.

But after seeing a game which implemented that system WELL, it's very clear that the Junction system is just really poorly executed.

[Shauna]

But after seeing a game which implemented that system WELL, it's very clear that the Junction system is just really poorly executed.

Out of curiosity, which game was this?

[maybee]

For all u haters out there. Lol.

[Skyblade]

But after seeing a game which implemented that system WELL, it's very clear that the Junction system is just really poorly executed.

Out of curiosity, which game was this?

Golden Sun

The Djinn system is basically a properly executed Junction system.

Each Djinn can be Set (Junctioned) to a character. Each one has its own minor stat boost that it gives a character as long as it remains Set. In addition, different types of Djinn in different combinations will change a character's class, which provides larger stat boosts.

By using a Djinn in combat, you can Unleash their unique effects, which are typically powerful attacks, healing, shielding, etcetera. But, by doing so you lose the Djinn's stat boosts and effect on your class. So the more you use, the weaker your character becomes, similar to Magic in FFVIII weakening the stats its Junctioned to as you cast it.

Unleashed Djinn go to a Standby mode. From here, you can either take a turn in combat to Set them back and regain their stat boosts (or do it for free out of combat), or use the Standby Djinn to perform a Summon (the more Djinn you have on Standby, the more powerful spirit that you can Summon). After you Summon them, they will slowly Set themselves back to the character (at a rate of 1 Djinn per turn).

So, the most basic way to use them is to Set them, Unleash them for their effects, then perform a Summon and wait for the Djinn to go through the Recovery state and Set themselves again.

It copies FFVIII's system of having powerful abilities that weaken your character, but it's a LOT better executed.

Summons are your most powerful attacks, but the more powerful a Summon is, the more Djinn it requires, and the longer it will leave your character in a weakened state (and the more prep work you have to do Unleashing Djinn to Summon in the first place). So, instead of GFs having health, they can instead be used less frequently, do more damage, and leave your characters substantially weakened both before and after using them.

Djinn are the equivalent to FFVIII's magic spells. Using them harms your stats and can change your class, which can change access to what spells you have. But, Djinn are generally powerful to make this tradeoff worthwhile, and unlike the game's spells, don't require PP, just time and stats. Some Djinn nearly double your attack strength, some can drain enemy health or heal the full party. There's even one that reduces all damage you take by 90% for one turn. Yeah, taking a stat loss for that is rough, but that is a POWERFUL effect. So while magic is nearly worthless in FFVIII, Djinn are a very worthwhile tradeoff that you have to consider when and where to use (as well as calculate when to Summon with them and take that stat loss for longer).

Finally, there are your basic attacks, which are generally your weaker options until you gain access to some of the endgame weapons. But they're very reliable and don't come with a stat penalty. And spells use PP and won't usually do enough damage to one shot enemies (especially at the beginning of the game), but can affect multiple enemies at a time, giving them their own utility.

Overall, the system is just much better balanced and executed. It serves the same idea of having powerful effects that reduce your stats, but it cuts out the entire draw/refining system in place of acquiring a much smaller number of Djinn, which each have a larger individual impact on your stats. And it makes these strong enough to actually use, instead of just taking the stat buff and forgetting that you actually have spells the way you do in FFVIII (though note, you CAN play the game without Unleashing or Summoning Djinn if you want, it's totally viable).

[Forsaken Lover]

There are certainly things to like about FFVIII. i have replayed it multiple times because of those things.

However I can never in any good conscience call it a good game. The cons far outweigh the pros.

The game really feels like they had no direction and just threw a bunch of "this sounds cool!" together. In the real world, you'll think its Christmas at the start of November. In FFVIII World, MONSTERS FALLING FROM THE MOON is not mentioned until right around thet ime monsters start falling from the moon.

The "ancient super advanced civilization" of FFVIII also vanished a grand total of...80 years before the game started. Yet almost nobody knows of the Centra civilization and you might have thought it vanished hundreds or even thousands of years ago.

You learn more about Sorceresses from a random NPC you can talk to in Balamb at the start of the game than you will ever learn from a main story cutscene in the entire game.

Balamb is basically a high school that dabbles in murder but the real implications of our heroes all being child soldiers is never really addressed or treated well. Similarly, Cid being a coward and asshole of the highest caliber is never talked about.

And much, much more. There's a good story in FFVIII but it was never properly executed at any point,

[Fynn]

Sky, if you say Djinn are basically the same as the junction system but better, I can tell right away you’ve probably scratched the surface of Junction, because it is a FAR more nuanced system.

[Skyblade]

Sky, if you say Djinn are basically the same as the junction system but better, I can tell right away you’ve probably scratched the surface of Junction, because it is a FAR more nuanced system.

Uh-huh. And I'm guessing you barely scratched the surface of the Djinn system, because it has far more nuance than a lot of people realize. And I've played with the Junction system quite a lot, certainly more than most.

But even at its basic level, the Djinn system is better, because it's just a smoother and more polished execution. The Junction system is hideously imbalanced, ridiculously easy to break/exploit/manipulate, renders most magic completely worthless, and frustrates a lot of players with the difficulty in gaining the absurd numbers of spells that you need in order to fully outfit your characters. In Golden Sun, it maintains the same idea, while keeping the various aspects of it usable and fun.

[Fynn]

Just to clarify, I wasn’t stating which system was better - just that they’re different on a fundamental level and shouldn’t be compared. Djinn are a risk vs reward system based upon the decisions you make in battle - higher stats and better magic vs single more powerful spells and temporary debuffs. Junction is about micro managing every stat and using multiple GFs to unlock various skills that shake up gameplay in battles substantially, and there are zero drawbacks to summoning GFs (heck, you even get a temporary damage sponge until you unleash the ultra powerful spell, making it like, all the pros with no cons), and it’s not like you lose all the Junction bonuses you get from them if their HP reaches zero - you just can’t summon them anymore. So like, the only thing they have in common is the lore behind them - you assign multiple magic beings per party member. But everything about their execution and how they influence their battle is completely different to the point that you can’t say any one of them is a better execution of this system, because the systems couldn’t be more different than they are mechanically.

[Skyblade]

Thank you for proving my point, Fynn. The Junction system is all about min-maxing your stats.

Notice what you ignored there? The actual mechanic you use to min-max your stats. The Magic spells themselves. Because they're basically completely useless, except for maybe Meltdown or healing spells.

The Djinn pull off the "min max stats" system, but the Djinn themselves are useful outside of just the effect on your stats. The way Magic feels as though it's SUPPOSED to be in FFVIII. Magic should be a high risk, high reward system. You should cast it for a power effect, but know that, by doing so, you're going to weaken your stats and leave yourself vulnerable.

This is the entire reason they moved away from an MP system. The stat boost you get is based on the number of spells you have Junctioned. So, if you cast one, you get a smaller boost. But the spells are basically completely worthless, to the point that you don't bring them up in your analysis of the system at all except for their stat benefit.

If that is the intended design, they could have abandoned the numerical system and just stuck with MP. You just assign a spell to a stat to get the boost, but casting it has no effect on that stat. Casting a spell has an effect on the boost you get because it is SUPPOSED to be a risk/reward system. It just fails because the reward is worthless compared to your physical attacks, and the risk is, while relatively small for any single spell, just not worth it. Sure, casting a single spell won't likely reduce your stats by even one point until the very endgame and with the spells with the largest multipliers. But why bother? You'll just have to take extra time to reacquire the spell, and the effect is still either inferior to or on par with your basic attacks.

[Fynn]

Again, I’m not arguing which system is better, but the fact that magic has a completely different use in either game (I.e. means of attacking vs mostly a resource) is whatvreally cements the fact that these systems were created with completely different goals in mind.

[Skyblade]

I just want you to know that the reason I'm disagreeing is because I don't think Magic was MEANT to be mostly a resource. If it was just a resource, there's no reason to Cast it, or to track the varying number. I feel that it was meant to be a resource and a utility in its own right, and that's where I feel it failed. It IS just a resource, and that's one of the biggest flaws in the system. But it's not a flaw with the overall system, just with the execution and balancing.

[Krizzy]

I don't think VIII is trash, the story may be convoluted but it's good, just remove Squall and Rinoa.

If there's an FF is trash, that's definitely XIII trilogy.

[maybee]

I don't think VIII is trash, the story may be convoluted but it's good, just remove Squall and Rinoa.

If there's an FF is trash, that's definitely XIII trilogy.

Laguna as the lead instead could of made a interesting game. But then there will be no dog rocket launcher. ):

If there's an FF is trash, that's definitely III

Fixed

FF3 can fight me outside Denny's at 3am.

[Lone Wolf Leonhart]

Interesting video about the junction system.

It brought up a contradiction I never really thought of. You simultaneously have to grind to build up your magic stock while at the same time from a level perspective not needing to grind at all because the enemies grow with you.

It's not really a big deal, especially if you know how to manipulate the system and get card mod early on, but it definitely would have been more cohesive if the enemies didn't level with you. It would make the traditional grinding more worth it.

[Jessweeee♪]

FFVIII is great because you can break the game by playing yu gi oh in the school cafeteria with the other yu gi oh nerds.