EoFF RPG Thunderdome 2020: Final Match!

[Wolf Kanno]

80 games.
7 Rounds.
Way more votes than I am willing to count.
2 final contestants
Only 1 can be the winner.

Categories: Pick two categories that are important to you. Then choose the game you feel deserves to be here. Please explain your reasoning after voting.

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vs.

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[Lord Golbez]

If I get to choose two categories, then it's definitely the game I prefer, which is FFT.

The two categories I chose were plot and gameplay. I chose them not due to any particular strengths of each game but because these are the most important categories to me in rating games in general. CT would have had a stronger lead in side content/replay value, but as I've said in the past, I don't really value this category as as a separate category because whether content is optional or not isn't particularly important to me. How that content, optional or otherwise, contributes to the overall other categories is. Cast and villains are pretty important to me too, but ultimately a.good cast/villains in the context of bad story won't work. Those categories are subservient to plot in the same way replay value is subservient to gameplay. Music and art direction are both nice to have, but not critical categories for me unless they venture into truly awful territory. Art direction is a little more essential than music in the sense that I can't opt out and still play the game if it looks truly horrendous, whereas there's always the mute button for music. Nevertheless, it's only going to carry weight with me in the extremes of awful to look at or truly phenomenal. Neither game is bad enough in either category (indeed they are both quite good in music) for these to be terribly relevant.

Plot - FFT wins this category handily. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy CT's story. It's a nice, simple fantasy story, but it's generally fairly cliche throughout. It can't really hold a candle to the dark, mature story of FFT which is full of political intrigue. I gave Xenogears the win on this category over FFT, partly because I feel FFT falters on the plot a bit later on, and stand by it, but Xenogears has a much deeper, more involved story than CT. CT just can't compare to either of these games on plot.

Gameplay -. This one is a bit more of a mixed bag. FFT has a deeper, more complex and strategic battle and character growth system. On the other hand, CT has a simple, fun system that you can pick up and enjoy any time with no hassle. It also allows you to enjoy the gameplay further through options like new game plus whereas extending gameplay beyond a single playthrough in FFT tends toward the more methodical trying out different job and ability combos. Thus, which game I prefer in this category comes down to a matter of mood. I'm a bit torn. I'm leaning CT in this category because I can enjoy it pretty much any time I like, while I have to be in the right mood for FFT. On the other hand, I feel like FFT has so much more to offer when I have the patience for it. So I'm giving the win in this category narrowly to CT, but right or wrong it doesn't really matter. The mere fact I'm so torn on gameplay, while FFT's victory on plot is decisive makes the overall decision easy. FFT is the winner!

[Del Murder]

I picked plot and side content.

For plot, I will give it to FFT. Really one of the better plots in all of video games. It was a great take on the 'story behind the story' of how Ramza and Delita's paths were very different during the same set of events. CT also had a great story, with the time travel angle and some of the plot twists related to Magus.

For side content, I went with CT. The various side quests at the end are some of my favorites in games and all very rewarding. Also the replay value of New Game+ and the different endings blew my mind the first time I played. FFT has some cool side stuff too, like Deep Dungeon and character recruitment.

Given it is 1 to 1, I went with the game I have more fun playing, which is CT. It's my second favorite game of all time!

[WarZidane]

Well, since we can choose the categories ourselves here, it's definitely CT. I'm not even a big CT fan, but I'll play it over FFT any day.

The categories I choose are Gameplay and Music. Gameplay because, at its base, it is what decides whether or not I'll enjoy a game. Once the gameplay is good enough, other categories take over in deciding how much I enjoy a game, but the gameplay has to get to that point first. Music because of two reasons mainly; the first being that music plays a large role in how memorable a game is to me and how much a game stands out from the rest (take for example my love for the Ar Tonelico series, music plays a large part in that love). The second reason, well, I can actually fairly judge it for both games, unlike categories such as characters.

Anyway, let's start with the quick one, music. I don't dislike FFT's music but there's also nothing that stands out to me. CT on the other hand has a great soundtrack, especially for its time, with many memorable tracks such as the main theme, the overworld themes (particularly the 600 AD one, Yearnings of the Wind/Wind Scene), various character themes like Robo's and Frog's, not to mention things like Corridors of Time and Magus' boss theme.

A definitive win for CT there.

Now for my hot take on the gameplay
Put simply, I really dislike FFT's gameplay. I'm not a big fan of the checkerboard-tactical-RPG combat in the first place, but FFT manages to make things painfully slow on top of that. Everything takes ages, from characters sauntering over to their designated square to taking their sweet time with attacks/skills and even the way they face at the end of their turn. Waiting for the AI to go through these motions especially just makes me feel like the game's wasting time. I'm a patient guy in many ways, but this is not one of them.
And outside of combat? The game's on heavy rails, just barely allowing you to at least pick your destination on the world map, but leaving no room for any real exploration or other interactions with the world. Towns feel hollow, just quick pit stops for you to manage your army.

CT on the other hand has the classic, straightforward but proven JRPG gameplay. Places to explore, towns to visit, people to talk to. Combat being initiated on the field by enemies you can actually see beforehand is a neat touch that was pretty unique in that era, and while I'm not a big fan of ATB combat either, I can live with it, with double/triple techniques being a double-edged blade (they're really nice skills in both presentation and function, but sitting there waiting for several characters' ATB bars to line up is one of my pet peeves with the entire ATB system)

Again, a win for CT.

In conclusion, in this battle of definitely-not-my-favorites, CT wins for me.

[Fynn]

Ugh this is hard. If I were to pick two categories, which in this case would surprisingly be music and art direction, it’d be an even match, so I have to go over every category to see which one comes out on top.

Music: Chrono Trigger very nearly wins this. I actually really like FFT’s OST, it’s got that signature Ivalice cinematic quality, but CT probably has my favorite of Mitsuda’s scores, since it’s the jazziest of the bunch. One point for Chrono Trigger here.

Art direction: Here FFT emerges as a clear victor. Now I love Akira Toriyama as much as any other nerd, but there is something about Akihiko Yoshida’s works that just tickles my imagination in all the right places. Point for FFT, and now we’re one to one.

Gameplay: This is another seriously hard pick. On the one hand, FFT has one of my favorite battle systems in any JRPG, with an incredibly in-depth grid combat system as well as the superb job class system. However, FFT is pretty much just battles whereas CT is balanced, offering a ton of variety, and generally just being super fun to breeze through. CT is getting this, so it’s now at 2 to 1.

Side content: FFT definitely has a lot going for it here, especially in War of the Lions, but the gameplay issue I mentioned above hampers it yet again - all side content basically just amounts to more battles. CT’s side content is all about tying up loose ends for characters, and the multiple endings are also a ton of fun, encouraging more playthroughs and simply making the story more diverse. CT still in the lead with 3 to 1.

Plot: now here’s a dilemma. Do I give this nomination to the story that’s a bit on the simple side but executed flawlessly, or the far more mature and ambitious plot that’s rarely seen in video games executed so well, even if it falters a bit towards the end? You guys know my tastes, so it’s probably no surprise that I’ll be voting for the “GoT before GoT was cool” thing FFT has going on. And hey, it still ended way better than that show 3:2.

Characters: Similar to plot, I could go for the simple yet incredibly well-balanced and humorous cast of CT, but there is just something about those complex people in FFT that I can’t stop talking about them. I could go on for days about Ramza and Delita’s individual journeys and how they play off each other incredibly well. I could go on about how incredible the admittedly few women in this game are, with Agrias’ knightly devotion, Ovelia’s tragic tale and Rapha’s fearless determination. Though the allegiances don’t shift as abruptly as, say, in Tactics Ogre, the character dynamics kept me at the edge of my seat, and they’re just incredible from a psychological perspective too. This is a resounding win for FFT. 3:3.

Villains: Looks like this one is going to be the deciding vote, and by now I know who the winner is, but let me preface this by saying what follows: I think Lavos is a tremendously well-executed antagonist. As far as force of nature villains go, I don’t think I’ve seen a better example in video games. He’s a freaky alien that truly embodies Eldritch horror by stating truly horrifying and incomprehensible until the very end. I could really go on and on about how much I love Lavos. However, FFT has the nuance that I feel even fewer games can nail down. Yes, we’ve got the demons trying to take over the world - who are fairly generic but are still pretty scary in how they work, but it’s the complicated human antagonists that make this game. Wiegraf is an intensely tragic character who showcases that the real villain of the story are the societal inequalities in this society, which is a topic that’s probably even more relevant today than it was in the mid-90s. We’be got a corrupt church that’s actually corrupt in a way real world churches are and not in the typical “aha! You though we were good but we’re actually demon worshippers!” thing you usually see in Japanese media. Finally, we have Argath, the single most detestable human being in any FF. And he doesn’t even get any help from a demon. He’s just legitimately a terrible, entitled person that isn’t exaggerated in the slightest. FFT wins this, and as such it wins my vote.

[Fynn]

Or at least it would get my vote if I could still vote in the poll!

[Shauna]

Do I dare mess with the poll

[Lord Golbez]

WTF? This poll closed so early when categories have to be picked and explained by participants? Voter fraud! FFT won!

[WarZidane]

Do I dare mess with the poll

Stop the count! Votes after this point are illegal

[Wolf Kanno]

To be fair, even if Fynn's vote counted, my vote would have been the tie breaker and we all know where my loyalty lies.

This just saves me the hassle of having to be blamed for being bias.

[Lord Golbez]

I actually don't, but from context I'm guessing you would have gone with CT.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yep