All the entries are awesome! The picture of Reles i love.
All the entries are awesome! The picture of Reles i love.
Str8 Pimpin'
I would just like to say thank you. Though I don't deserve to be here.
However, in a lot of ways I'm rather insulted by DP's reviews. Not on mine alone, but on others as well. He was unnecessarily rude and uncaring. It was almost as if he was trying to be as cruel as possible. As an artist, I can say his comments made me feel as if I SHOULDN'T be an artist anymore, and I don't appreciate that at all.
I wasn't able to spend a whole lot of time on this due to personal reasons. I've been working a lot, and my grandfather has been ill. Life got in my way. I can't help that.
Anyway, I'll do my best to prove myself worthy of being in the final three.
~Ye must desire respite from thy empty existence. Thou shalt have it.~
...and here I was thinking it was just me and that the judges had it in for me because I'm older and therefore somehow supposed to be doing better artwork.
I too, thought DP was harsh and didn't seem to know what he was talking aboout sometimes. My hubby was especially indignant, being a big Bond fan, about the comment that Bond doesn't do bow ties. Come on! Its a tux - of course hes wearing a bow tie!
In the beginning of this competition, all the judges were picking nice things to say about each picture, whether it was well executed or not, then marked accordingly. Constructive criticism is helpful, but only if its helpful!. Judges are not here to tear our works to pieces, especially if we've worked on them long and hard when there are more pressing things to be done in our respective lives. This is supposed to be friendly and fun, and with these kinds of reviews, well...
Nominus Experse - why don't you give a critique anyway? Why doesn't anyone? Come on - I'd be really interested in hearing what you have to say.
Yes please, Nom. :3
~Ye must desire respite from thy empty existence. Thou shalt have it.~
This could be a problem, but I'm not sure yet -_-Originally Posted by Omecle
First off, you said "I'll have it in tomorrow at 8 PM," not "I'll have it in in three hours." Secondly, if you had turned it in two days ago I would've used them. I wasn't going to wait that long just for you to possibly not turn them in. If I had waited for you, I wouldn't have been able to post the scores as soon as I could. Of course I could've waited but I already had all of the scores and reviews necessary (except one or two) and I wasn't going to hold it off any longer for one person. It may have been wrong of me to ask you to guest judge if I was just going to turn you down, but I thought you'd just write really quick reviews and give the scores, which I would've been fine with. You're angry at me for choosing DP over you, but he turned his in quickly, and even if he had been very harsh in the reviews, he gave fair scores, and I think that justifies him being a guest judge, whether he was a jerk in his reviews or not.
I think he gave you such a bad score for that piece because the execution of it. I sort of agreed with him a bit, mainly because the face in the portrait is blurry and my face sort of looks scrambled. The overall look to it is very nice because the background looks great and so does the suit, but I think that the part where you failed at wasn't the idea, it was more of how you drew me. If you had pulled that off I would've given you a really good score, actually.
Well, it seems as if everyone's pointing the finger at me and getting angry at me for choosing DP to be a guest judge. He wanted to do it, and I knew he wouldn't choose favorites in the competition, so I let him do it. I really only chose him because I knew that he would give actual scores that he thought you guys deserved, not like the people who requested pictures because they all gave you guys really good scores (which is why I had to throw out the top one for everyone o_o). I'm not going to defend what DP said, but when you're looking at art, you don't say, "Oh wow that must've taken a really long time, so I really like it." It's like looking at, for example, an ugly garment. You don't say, "Oh wow that ugly garment must've taken a lot of time to make, so I'll just wear it." When people review things, they don't think about how much effort was put into it; they only look at the end result, and I'm sorry if he offended you but at least he was being honest in his reviews, unlike many past judges. He was trying to be funny in his reviews, and that was insulting as well, so, I'm sorry for that, but I think the scores that he gave were much more important, and I think he gave each entry a fair and well-thought out score.
I'll have the final challenge up soon enough.
Oh, tan, I'm not mad at you at all.It's not your fauly he was unnecessarily grouchy. LOL
Well, I'm looking forward to completeing this.
~Ye must desire respite from thy empty existence. Thou shalt have it.~
Yeah well, when you asked me to join this competition you said have a month free, which I did. You know, as a person with a real life and such, I've had things come up as of the 30th.
It all comes down to that you could have waited. Why in such a rush? It's just a competition for fun. I know we all would have rather waited a day for the review if we knew it'd be someone who had some sort of artistic knowledge.
The reason he turned it in quickly, is because he went over them quickly. i.e. Had no idea what he was doing. I don't think his harsh marks are fair scores, especially when this is for fun.
I think you're just being biased. You're running this competition, I don't think you should really have a say in the reviews (except for your request of course). So back of a bit man. (Not to mention you gave mum the smallest and most undetailed picture for reference, I don't think she could have drawn you extremely accurate)
Just because you agree with DP, doesn't make it all right.
Of course, you're the one running this competition, duh. I mean, we're not angry at you for him being an idiot. But you could have read over the review before committing to it.
I doubt Nominus Experse would have been biased.
No, you don't, but you also don't rip apart someone's piece as if it were a pile of steaming crap just for shock value.
You don't need to defend him.
It's the same deal as that ugly garmet; just because he was honest, doesn't mean he was a good reviewer.
You can tell him no one really thinks he was funny at all.
"... and so I close, realizing that perhaps the ending has not yet been written."
Tan, I wasn't mad at you - in fact I never even mentioned you. I pointed out that DP was inaccurate with what he said re a bow tie. (I feel he's shown himself up with a few of his comments, actually.)
You seem to be getting very defensive and taking everything personally, which may be understandable given your position, but as a manager of this you should remove yourself and just professionally administrate. You've done well to get us all this far.
Secondly we never saw any scores for each piece so I couldn't complain about the marking. In fact I said "In the beginning of this competition, all the judges were picking nice things to say about each picture, whether it was well executed or not, then marked accordingly." So I was commenting on DP's comments, not his marking of that particular piece.
I don't need to be told how poor that piece was, Tan, and I'm sorry it was inadequate for you.
I do agree with Omecle that the administrator of the competition shouldnt judge or give any comments, but thats just an opinion and I appreciate may not always be practical.
VW & Omecle, I'm very please that you 2 are in the final - well deserved - and don't you say or think otherwise!
Jowy's computer died, hence why the review took so long to get sent out.
Well, I guess if you quit, you quit. After the way you've been acting these last couple of days, it's quite noticeable that you're fed up with me and this competition, and, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you quit.Yeah well, when you asked me to join this competition you said have a month free, which I did. You know, as a person with a real life and such, I've had things come up as of the 30th.
Just because people don't have artistic knowledge, doesn't mean they can't have an opinion about art. Should I watch a movie and say, "Oh, since I'm not a director, I can't think anything of this movie. Oh well."?It all comes down to that you could have waited. Why in such a rush? It's just a competition for fun. I know we all would have rather waited a day for the review if we knew it'd be someone who had some sort of artistic knowledge.
First off, who are you to say he had no idea in what he was doing? Do you actually know this?
Secondly, just because it's for fun doesn't mean he can't give serious reviews of what he thinks, rather than what all of you are used to from other people, which is "Oh, it's great! 10/10." For all 3 of you this is your serious wake-up call, because it shows that you shouldn't just rely on everyone to consider your feelings and just say it's good. That doesn't get you anywhere. In my opinion, if you want to do anything in life, you have to take what you have been criticized for, and change that. DP was, oddly enough, a learning experience for all of us. Yes, his reviews were harsh, but, at least they were truthful in the spots where he was being serious (which was about 90% of all of the reviews). I suspect I will get an even harsher judge panel for the final challenge (it is the finale, after all) and if you know what's good for you, you'll take these things you've learned from all of the reviews and turn them into the best collection ever (which I'll explain in the rules for the next challenge :D). I realize that constructive criticism doesn't need to be harsh, but DP did give people good scores for the pictures he thought were well-done, and it's obvious that Omecle deserved to win because he did draw two very good pieces. To be constructive, you need to be harsh, even if only a bit, so the person you're criticizing takes what you says, and applies it in future drawings.
I'm being biased? It was my request. As the requester, I can have opinions about it, whether I'm the competition runner or not. I agreed with some things he said, even though he said them in a harsh way. I'm not being biased for agreeing with him on a picture I requested, and you even said "except for your request of course." It's my request, isn't it?I think you're just being biased. You're running this competition, I don't think you should really have a say in the reviews (except for your request of course). So back of a bit man. )
About the picture: Mum is the artist drawing it. If she wants a better reference, she can ask me. I didn't think it was that bad of a photo reference, but now you're shifting the blame to me to discredit my opinion. She can speak for herself and if she wanted a bigger photo reference, it was her duty to ask me. There would've been no reason for me to say no. I even have photos in the photo album here. She drew what she drew, so you can't say my involvement in the request should automatically discredit it.
EDIT: I looked at the photo reference I gave. It was a thumbnail, meaning that she could click on it to expand it. It's not that small of a picture if you actually click on the thumbnail.
It doesn't justify the mean unnecessary things he said, but, the things he said while he was being serious were only harsh because he didn't sugarcoat them. He's actually been the most honest judge so far, and I think all of you are just too used to hear all these compliments about your pictures because everyone here is too nice, and anyone who gives a negative comment is suddenly a jerk. If he said in any of the reviews, "Oh this sucks," then of course I'd be agreeing with you, but at least he added in a compliment for every review, and in your blind fury, you didn't notice this. Not all of his reviews were just negative comments. In my opinion, it's better to hear what's worse in something that you take pride in making rather than the good things because you can always improve, and only hearing the good while only swell your ego. Don't blame me for knocking you down a peg.
My advice: read over the reviews again, and look at your piece. The reviews that he wrote that seem to offend you the most were the ones you did worse on, and apparently you need to be told that all of your pieces are good, so you don't get angry. Had he sugarcoated the bad reviews with a few more comments, you most likely would've been less upset.Of course, you're the one running this competition, duh. I mean, we're not angry at you for him being an idiot. But you could have read over the review before committing to it.
I didn't mention him, now did I? I would've used his reviews, had he turned them in on time.
You're implying that all he said to all of you was, "You all did horribly and you all drew horribly," but if you noticed, he did include compliments.No, you don't, but you also don't rip apart someone's piece as if it were a pile of steaming crap just for shock value.
You don't need to defend him.
It's the same deal as that ugly garmet; just because he was honest, doesn't mean he was a good reviewer.[/QUOTE]
So, you'd rather someone lie to you and tell you your picture looks good? A good reviewer is an honest reviewer, because they tell you what you need to improve on, which, in my opinion is 10x better than just saying they thought it was good. Yes, your past reviews have shown you both the good and the bad of your pieces, but it seems as though the good outweighed the bad in every review every time. This reminds me of when I judged, because I had to hold back because I didn't want to offend any of you, and now that you've experienced someone who hasn't held back, you're completely shocked. He didn't rip your entries up into pieces and say you all sucked and you have no hope. He gave you constructive criticism through showing you what you did wrong, even if he did this in a rude way.
You can tell him no one really thinks he was funny at all.[/QUOTE]
And now all of you are attacking me for being a guest judge and judge. I didn't hear complaints the first time I did it (a few challenges back) so I dont' see why you're insulting me now. Just because I'm a competition runner, does not mean I can't have an opinion about your work. I think you and Omecle are really pointing out that I don't have much art experience, due to the fact that you've noticed I don't post any art here. As for the fact that you guys are angry for DP because you think he has no art experience, let me just say this in his (and my) defense: Do you really believe people who review movies actually make movies? Should Ebert and Roeper not be allowed to review movies simply for the fact that they don't make them? Does that make their opinions invalid? Should people who don't make clothes be able to have an opinion about top designers' clothes? The list goes on and on, and you guys are complaining because you're not getting "knowledgeable" people to review your pieces. Whether our opinions may be untrained or not in art does not make them suddenly worthless. He may be untrained in it, but if he shows you your mistakes, you could fix them. Anyone can give an opinion and that's what these reviews are. And, as DP showed, apparently there are bad opinions as well.
In the end, all of you are angry at me for letting you hear the things you heard about your pieces. I realize this is a fun competition, but does it have to be fake and sugarcoated? That just doesn't seem right. I see you artists as people who grow with every picture and every review, and showing you the mistakes you made in these entries may prevent you from making them again when it is actually crucial (maybe you'll become a famous artist one day through learning from your mistakes and perfecting your work :D). The main reason most of you seem angry is that he insulted your hard work, but not everyone in life is going to make you feel good by lying to you, and that's a proven fact in life.
All of you expect to hear all of the good things about your pictures, and only one or two bad things. Marick didn't do that, and he highlighted the bad parts of your entries, and you consider that rude. Oh well. I will say that he did say mean things and I won't deny that, but I don't see his critique as being 100% invalid, because he did point out a lot of good things.
As Marick said in a letter to me (through e-mail):
And I leave you with that quote.
Once we're done squabbling, I'll put up the final challenge's rules.
Last edited by tan; 11-15-2006 at 03:32 AM.
Post away.
I'll just say this. I did the best I could, considering what was going on. Am I hurt by the comments? Hell yes. But I'll live. And I'm an artist despite what anyone says.
Deal.
Ok, VW is done. :3
~Ye must desire respite from thy empty existence. Thou shalt have it.~
Okay, I get pretty defensive sometimes, so I'm sorry for that.
To Tan: I hardly even talk to you, so please don't assume what I've been like the last couple of days.
Sure, he can be serious about the reviews, but I think he was just trying to be harsh like he was for shock value. Either that or he has a pole up his butt.
I don't care what scores he gave us, that didn't really have anything to do with it (hell, we didn't even see the scores, just the end ones). Just the things he said.
I'm really not bothered by having told my piece isn't that good, it was just the way he put it.
To DP: This is a video game internet forum. Do you really expect us to take your harsh remakes so lightly when we're just in this for fun? We've juggled around our own lives a lot to get these done, so it just gets annoying when you so brutally discredit our work the way you did. Especially when we're not showcasing art professionally.
I'm pretty sure we can take your criticism, but the way you put it was uncalled for. And I'm not just talking about what you said for my pieces.
Anyway, I'll talk to you on MSN Tan, it's probably best not to spam up this forum, lol.
(Just on a side note, Mum had no idea it was a thumbnail, so she was working off the little picture. At least, I think so.)
Edit:
I should have been more reserved with my feelings like VW, sorry guys.
Last edited by Rostum; 11-15-2006 at 04:17 AM.
"... and so I close, realizing that perhaps the ending has not yet been written."
*butts in*
Can I be a guest judge sometime? Just someone extra. :3
Happy Birthday to Me
LOL
I'm generally reserved. I DID rant at my boyfriend about it, though...LOL
~Ye must desire respite from thy empty existence. Thou shalt have it.~
Final Challenge
I would be honored if you could be a guest judge for the final challenge :D
Just as long as you don't cause as much of an outrage as DP did, I'm fine with it xD (just kidding)
Anyway, final challenge's rules:
Final Challenge- Finale
This is it. This is the last challenge that will decide your fate in this competition. There are 3 of you left. After this one, there will only be EoFF's Top Artist.
This challenge is to create an 8-piece collection over the course of two months. There are no exact restrictions to what you can draw; you can draw whatever you want, as long as it sums up your style and shows the best of your ability.
Your collections must be cohesive, so doing random pictures would not be in your best interest. You could, for example, draw eight pictures surrounding one word, because it would smoothly flow and the ideas could be connected from one piece to another.
After you have made your 8-piece collections, you will be making a video with them, complete with music. As you have seen before, I can make videos, so I can help you, but if you want someone else who is better than me at doing them, you can ask them to do it, as long as it ends up as a video. I will not be taking your pictures and turning it into a video; you need to know what music you want, what you want it to look like, what transitions you want to use, etc. I'll go more into this video once you have turned them in.
Guidelines for collections
-You may not use ANY pieces you have already done in the past; Mum, I know, has her own online gallery, so she could easily use 8 old ones, but I trust her enough not to do this :)
-No outside help, unless they are just critiquing you as you go along (no one can draw it for you)
-You may ask a fellow contestant for their opinion of your pieces as you're going along, but you may not want to do this because it may spark subconcious cheating (seeing a picture, getting an inspiration, creating a somewhat similar piece)
-Name your collection with one or two words; whether the title is relevant or not to the pieces does not matter
That's about it for guidelines. If you have a question, then I'm always free.
The judging system will be a bit different this time: there will be a panel of 6 judges (I am one of them, if you don't mind) and each will be casting a vote for their favorite collection. Of course, this may end up as a tie, which is why there will be a seventh vote taken from the public. So, there will be a poll asking which collection they thought was the best, and whoever gets the most votes gets the seventh vote. These panel of judges will be talking about the collections together and giving their opinions on each; whether or not I can get them all in one #eoff chat room at the same time for about 30 minutes or so with none of them leaving will be the challenge (for me) o_o
I will warn you now: do not procrastinate this challenge. If you end up slacking because you think two months is a lot, you'll probably end up doing it last minute with very sloppy results. I will be checking up on you around the half-way mark to see where you are, to give you advice, etc.
And so, the cut-off deadline for this will be January 15th, 2007. Its the longest deadline you've had so far, so I hope you make the best of your time.
The following week after that will be EoFF's Art Week (well, I'm just calling it that, they won't actually celebrate it or anything xD) in which all 3 artists show their collections. The extra week is to create the video. The line-up of who shows on what day (different people will show on different days) will be decided then.
So, this thread is going to become quite dead during that break (for us onlookers at least), but Leeza assured me that if we come back after a month and no one's responded, she won't lock up the thread for reviving a dead thread :D
ANNOUNCEMENT- Omecle has dropped out due to scheduling conflicts. Mum, ValkyrieWing, if either of you have important things to do (like, huge tasks) I will change the number of pieces due (if I must) so you don't have to drop out. Anyway, this third spot is open to anyone who participated in this competition as a contestant, and who has time to do it. If not chosen by next week, I guess we'll just have a one-on-one with ValkyrieWing and Mum =P
Before I leave, I want to give some advice to Mum and ValkyrieWing as to what they should or should not do for their collections.
ValkyrieWing- Your execution, detail, and color-choice are perfect when you expand and do as much possible to your pieces. I would advise you to take each piece at a time and draw them with much diligence. If you can pull off a collection that looks well-executed and well-thought out, you'll definitely have a high chance of winning. As for what you shouldn't do... hmmm... you shouldn't rush, because that seems to end up with you having a sort of lacklustre piece with much to be desired. Again, just take your time, but not too much time as to run out of it. I also think it would be interesting to start seeing new perspectives while you're drawing, like an over-head perspective or a bottom-looking-up perspective. Also, it seems like female characters are definitely your strong point, so sticking to them would be wise, but also try to branch out and do a couple of male characters, but, if they end up looking odd, then just use the female characters as your Plan B when all else fails.
Mum- Yes, I slaughtered you in my review two challenges ago because you weren't creative. You have the skill and talent to make these pieces look great, but with creativity, you don't seem to branch out much. I think it would be very interesting to see more pictures like the one you created for the seven sins challenge, and that was actually my favorite piece from you out of all of the challenges. Just be creative, yet still keep the execution. Just as I said to ValkyrieWing, don't rush, because, as you it seemed like you did with a couple of the requests last challenge, it doesn't end up well. I liked your first challenge's pencil drawing, so, maybe trying to incorporate that into your collection would look really good as well. The judges will definitely love anything you create, creative or not, but I want you to step out of the box and create something beautiful with the imagination you have, because we haven't seen all of that this round of challenges. That's basically all the advice I can give you :)
Anyway, you have your challenge, so I hope you make the best of it and create a great collection!
Last edited by tan; 11-15-2006 at 01:32 PM.
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