Kefka is so evil he even killed the GRASS!

[Serapy]

I didn't know it was a he.

Technically, if the machine killed people (would machine keep shooting if YY didn't exist?), then it's an evil thing. I don't know any better word to replace "evil".

YY doesn't need a motive, or whatever, but he was a definitely accessory to all of the murders. YY wins this thread if it killed more people than other villians.

This thread has nothing to do with accomplishment and everything to do with motive (motive helps determine evil most), Yu Yevon had no motive because he had no setimental thought.

I'm sure whoever created YY must have had a motive then. I see, from the game, YY has no personality, so I don't know what it had to say about everything, but most things it has killed, it's an evil thing to do. If YY has no motive, it doesn't make itself not evil to help Sin killing people. You are misunderstanding my term of "evil", I just mean it's like not a good thing >_>

[Avarice-ness]

I didn't know it was a he.

Technically, if the machine killed people (would machine keep shooting if YY didn't exist?), then it's an evil thing. I don't know any better word to replace "evil".

YY doesn't need a motive, or whatever, but he was a definitely accessory to all of the murders. YY wins this thread if it killed more people than other villians.

This thread has nothing to do with accomplishment and everything to do with motive (motive helps determine evil most), Yu Yevon had no motive because he had no setimental thought.

I'm sure whoever created YY must have had a motive then. I see, from the game, YY has no personality, so I don't know what it had to say about everything, but most things it has killed, it's an evil thing to do. If YY has no motive, it doesn't make itself not evil to help Sin killing people. You are misunderstanding my term of "evil", I just mean it's like not a good thing >_>

Eh. The term "evil" is relative to the user. People of naturally good morals would find anything of villianous nature to be evil regardless if they have mental capabilities of undertanding wether or not their goals are evil or not. Many serial killers in our world are -clearly- out of their mental barriers therefore not even themselves in philosophical terms, but because of the things they did, we still consider them evil. Even if it was because they went out of their mentality for a bit.
Obviously YY could not consider himself to be evil, but he's not the one that even has to chose. Being "evil" or "good" is judged by the people around, not by the person or thing itself. Kefka had a cult and some people who were actually thankful for his world take over (The man who runs the colloseum), the only reason that they veiwed him as "good" and where thankful was because their mentality was skewed as well. Before the Kefka took over the world, you were able to talk to him (The colloseum man), and basically he'd say how people said he was crazy because of what he wanted, but when Kefka took over the world no one seemed to mind.


Anyways, I thought this thread was about Acomplishment. Because you can have all the motive in the world and still be a crappy bad guy, it's what you get accomplished and have physical proof of that matters.
Hence the title, Kefka's so evil he even killed the GRASS!

Because he did kill the grass.

[Jiro]

Kefka for sure. I'm sure you can class his insanity as evil. And what other bad guy was as thorough? He DID kill the grass and all.

[Karellen]

Kefka's accomplishments are arbitrary compared to the reasons (or lack there of) he tried to accomplish them in the first place. Killing lots of people was just a vehicle for portraying how evil he was.

As previously noted, Kefka is the most evil villain because he kills for the pure joy of killing, rather then killing for a purpose. Any villain could have killed far more people and devastated far more worlds without being as evil if they had done so for a concrete reason.

[Avarice-ness]

Kefka's accomplishments are arbitrary compared to the reasons (or lack there of) he tried to accomplish them in the first place. Killing lots of people was just a vehicle for portraying how evil he was.

As previously noted, Kefka is the most evil villain because he kills for the pure joy of killing, rather then killing for a purpose. Any villain could have killed far more people and devastated far more worlds without being as evil if they had done so for a concrete reason.

As the biggest Kefka fan to ever live.

I don't really consider him as evil as much as insane though. I mean if I went around and killed lots of people due to my insanity, people would say "that persons crazy" "that persons insane" not "that persons evil".

Then again, I believe that there are people who find that killing other humans as a method for entertainment and get the pure joy out of it. I don't consider them evil, more power to them for finding their joy in life.

And no, Kefka's purpose doesn't come into WORDS until the final battle but in hindsight, Kefka does have a purpose. Kefka believes that all life is meaningless thus he must exterminate it. Anything having to do with life, love, happiness, he wants crushed because he believes it has no meaning because it will all be destroyed in time. People die, People lose love, People will lose happiness at times. People give things meanings, and they don't know what to do when the meanings are lost, therefore, it has no point. If it has no point, he wants it to be dead.

The towns he put his light of judgment on were towns that disobey'd him. The second someone turned against them, their point was lost, they were not loyal so they died. Once Kefka was able to use Ghestal to get into power, he killed Ghestal, Ghestal no longer had a reason to live. Leo was meddlesome, annoying, and a bug to Kefka, thus serving no point because Kefka knew he'd have ultimate power, thus losing the point to live, leo dies. The planets gonna die anyway, so might as well take it over before everyone dies too, Kefka takes over planet.
This is another reason that Kefka in lore is "The angel of death" or the epitome of a backwards fall of satan (See final battle map), The angel of death comes to people or places when the people or places have basically exhausted their reasons or points of existance, then takes them to their respective places. Unlike the angel of death, Kefka choses when the people have exhuasted their reasons, then kills them in a violent fashion.

But then again, because Kefka is able to do all this in a semi-tactful way, it would show he had the mental capabiliites to plan and to know what he was doing, but that doesn't mean that he didn't find everything he was doing to be correct, because he did. Insane by our terms, clearly sane by his own. In fact, we're the crazy one's for thinking we have a reason to live, or that we will be happy in life.

I don't consider his reasons to be evil though, there are many people currently alive that have the veiw that everyone is pointless and should die, and everything will wither in time, the only difference is, some people act on it some don't. Thus we get the killers and such who believe they are perfectly sane and they were doing the killing, not because they were evil, because what the killed had no purpose.

Most people say that his motives changed in the last battle, that he just decided that he wanted everything to be destroyed because it was going to happen anyways, infact, everything he had done previously in the game was justified or finally given reason, in the final battle.

[The Crystal]

Most people say that his motives changed in the last battle, that he just decided that he wanted everything to be destroyed because it was going to happen anyways, infact, everything he had done previously in the game was justified or finally given reason, in the final battle.

If that's true, why he didn't kill everyone the second after acquiring the power of the statues? Why permit everyone to live during a whole year?

[Bolivar]

I don't know why you think Vayne can't be doing things for himself AND for the world. Even the way you describe him, he's more like someone who's doing what he believes is right in such a way as to benefit himself and be kind of a jerk at the same time. Face it. He's easily the least evil person on the list, if only because he never wanted to destroy the world.[/COLOR]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. the first and second sentences here don't seem to make much sense. And if there was a set most evil to least evil, there wouldn't even be a poll. If you feel otherwise maybe you shouldn't participate in the thread.

[Roto13]

I don't know why you think Vayne can't be doing things for himself AND for the world. Even the way you describe him, he's more like someone who's doing what he believes is right in such a way as to benefit himself and be kind of a jerk at the same time. Face it. He's easily the least evil person on the list, if only because he never wanted to destroy the world.[/COLOR]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. the first and second sentences here don't seem to make much sense.

Congratulations. You're illiterate.

[Bolivar]

I don't know why you think Vayne can't be doing things for himself AND for the world. Even the way you describe him, he's more like someone who's doing what he believes is right in such a way as to benefit himself and be kind of a jerk at the same time. Face it. He's easily the least evil person on the list, if only because he never wanted to destroy the world.[/COLOR]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. the first and second sentences here don't seem to make much sense.

Congratulations. You're illiterate.

Um... okay.... I thought Del murder already warned you about personal insults in the other thread? well:

1) Your first sentence is nonsensical in that it would be pretty rare for a villain to encompass both qualities at the same time. A selfish idealist is an oxymoron.

2) he does something he believes is right in such a way that it benefits himself, and be kind of a jerk at the same time?

^ I'm sorry, I'm just lost with this one. So he's doing the things he does because he wants to be kind of a jerk? In addition to it benefitting himself? But he believes that it's right? ...

[Roto13]

See that's the entire point of Final Fantasy XII. Yeah, he's not a great human being but he is doing something that he, and a lot of players, see as the right thing. Yes, there's something for him to gain. I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand that people can have multiple motives for doing something. It's only oxymoronic if you're incapable of seeing things in gray.

[Avarice-ness]

Most people say that his motives changed in the last battle, that he just decided that he wanted everything to be destroyed because it was going to happen anyways, infact, everything he had done previously in the game was justified or finally given reason, in the final battle.

If that's true, why he didn't kill everyone the second after acquiring the power of the statues? Why permit everyone to live during a whole year?

Because his downfall was his god powers. He ended up believing his own imortality after becoming a god, so he decided to rule the striken world before attempting to destroy it.

In the Imperial Base shortly before the Doma incident, Leo tells Kefka to not act rash because they're people too and what not, stressing to him to not act rash. That would imply Kefka had most likely killed without caring before. Obviously shortly after Leo's gone, Kefka's already down poisoning Doma.

After he becomes a god, his rashness goes down extremely. Clearly he's able to know the going on's of everyone in the world, being able to keep them in line via fear and his light of judgement. Clearly after became a god he became more organized, because he truly believed he was god, therefore he could do what ever he wanted with the people within his own terms at that point.

Basically power was his own downfall, because he could have easily have killed everything on his own will if he chose too. But after gaining the power, the once quick-acting kefka had gone and a more domniating kefka had taken place, which caused him to do more than just aimlessly kill. Like I said earlier he kept track of everyone on the planet to make sure their doings were right for him, the quick-acting Kefka would have most likely have just destroyed the world without thinking of the possiblities he could do while OWNING the world.

Then again, the fact he was a villian in a final fantasy means he couldn't actually be the victor in the game since Final Fantasy's main thing entails good over evil even if it gets hard.

[NeoCracker]

Um, he wasn't so rash anymore?

Molbez: WE don't want you to rule us.
Kefka: You go Boom now!
Molbez: X_X

[Bolivar]

See that's the entire point of Final Fantasy XII. Yeah, he's not a great human being but he is doing something that he, and a lot of players, see as the right thing. Yes, there's something for him to gain. I don't see why it's so hard for you to understand that people can have multiple motives for doing something. It's only oxymoronic if you're incapable of seeing things in gray.

1) If someone believing that what they're doing is right excludes them from being evil then Osama bin Laden, Hitler, Stalin, Dr. Mengele, etc. etc. etc. aren't evil either.

2) It's solidly established, multiple times in the game, that Vayne is a power-hungry and manipulative person. Everyone around him attests to that (and strives to stop him), except for Cid, who is exploiting him to continue his discoveries, and Venat, who is exploiting him to end The Age of Stones.

Play the game again.

[Roto13]

Maybe you should play the game again. This time realizing that everything isn't always broken up between good and bad. Yeah, he's power hungry. Yeah, he's manipulative. He also wants to accomplish something to benefit mankind. He's not even trying to rule or destroy the world. He wants to rule one small part of it. And not even as a cruel dictator. Remember the people of Rabanastre cheering for him? He must be doing something right.

You're so closed minded.

[Bolivar]

Maybe you should play the game again. This time realizing that everything isn't always broken up between good and bad. Yeah, he's power hungry. Yeah, he's manipulative. He also wants to accomplish something to benefit mankind. He's not even trying to rule or destroy the world. He wants to rule one small part of it. And not even as a cruel dictator. Remember the people of Rabanastre cheering for him? He must be doing something right.

You're so closed minded.

LOL once again you end a response with an insult. Of course much of the cast reflects the grey area - Azelas may be the epitome of it. Every Matsuno game puts the majority of its characters in it, but in every one, there are a few characters who are good and evil.

I find it hilarious that you still insist that Vayne genuinely wanted to benefit mankind. It's bad enough that the people he was trying to rule wanted to stop him, but everyone from his allies (Bhujerba) to his top-ranking commanders (the judge magisters) to even the members of his own family wanted him stopped. As I already said, the only ones who stood by him were Cid and Venat, who both exploited him to achieve their own ends, and Bergen, who was obviously a bloodlusted maniac.

Yet you refuse to confront these facts to continue to insult me, as you do with everyone else I see you disagree with. C'mon now.