I like my democratic presidential nominees like I like my coffee...

[Shoeberto]

I said this in the last thread about this nonsense, but I hope Obama loses. He won't, but if he did, the reactions of the internet will be priceless. I will live on their tears for weeks.

I, too, want the most powerful country in the world to elect the poorer choice, solely on the basis that I would laugh

I was going to say something along those lines, but instead I made lunch

Yeah, just like electing Bush was the poorer choice because he was going to drop nukes on Iran and North Korea and stuff.

...Oh.

I'll let you in on a little secret: Clinton, Obama and McCain are exactly the same.

No.

Everything about that... just, no.

[Dreddz]

Obama still seems to represent the typical patriotic American who thinks that his country is Earths last hopes (he honestly said that). He wants to keep the American mentality that there the best, and that for a start shows that America is going nowhere. Im happier that he secured the Democratic nominee but at least Hilary didnt spend every oppotunity she had to get up on stage and say America just to give everyone a reason to scream at the top of their voice.

[Psychotic]

Hey if you guys want to believe that they're not all about middle of the road catch-all policies designed to get votes and secure political funding then go for it.

[Rye]

so uh, they picked him? that's cool.

maybe he'll pick ron paul to be his running mate!

Technically I think he's still just the 'presumptive' one, since the convention won't happen for a while. He has the delegates, though, to have secured it.

Hillary hasn't stepped down yet though.

Hope you guys watched his speech last night.

I'm afraid I missed it. What was it like?

I didn't see it, but you can read a transcript here
Obama's speech on the occasion of becoming the presumptive Democratic nominee for the President of the United States
It's very inspiring.

I really hope he doesn't take Clinton on as VP. All of the stuff that's happened during the primaries has destroyed her credibility as a candidate and I doubt she could be trusted in office.

That was incredibly inspiring, and classy, at that. I appreciate classiness.

[XxSephirothxX]

It's better seen than read, I'm sure. I don't know if it's quite as good as his Iowa speech, but it was still pretty great.

[Tavrobel]

Hey if you guys want to believe that they're not all about middle of the road catch-all policies designed to get votes and secure political funding then go for it.

Umm, they aren't. McCain has been quite loud about wanting to prolong military operations in the Gulf. That's definitely not middle of the road. That'll catch you about 40% of the American population, if that. On the other side of the spectrum, Obama is basing most of his campaign on change in the weather of politics. That's not very status quo, that's pretty exactly NOT the middle of the road. He's driving on the shoulder and cutting off the police officer. And Hillary? Okay, you can have her as being middle of the road with policies for "everyone." You can have her.

[Shoeberto]

Hey if you guys want to believe that they're not all about middle of the road catch-all policies designed to get votes and secure political funding then go for it.

You seem to be ignoring how they feel about the issues and also the fact that Clinton is a plain-faced liar. (yes okay all politicians are liars hur hur but she said things to stir up support that were just complete fabrications)

But McCain has been crazy lately. He used to be more of a moderate, but anymore he's changing all of his previously stated positions to line up with the Bush administration policy. Which would basically mean four more years of war (and war profiteering), becoming more of a police state, fear tactics, etc.


Dreddz: I haven't noticed that so much. I'd imagine anything like that would probably be trying to get back from all the backlash he received from such unpatriotic things as
1) Not wearing a flag lapel pin
2) I don't know what else
But on the whole, like I said, I haven't seen it. I might just be numb to it by now with how everyone spouts it.

[Freya]

Don't hate me for saying this, and i'm not trying to disrespect him or anything but he reminds me of Hitler o.o I don't know what he supports but damn he talks pretty. Don't get me wrong I like him, will probably vote for him but I don't know why....

[Old Manus]

Murphy's Law

/thread

[Rye]

But our policy has not been of much use to us as far as other countries are concerned. Only a few months ago honorable British citizens felt they must make a protest to us for detaining in a concentration camp one of the most criminal subjects of Moscow. [Presumably Herr von Ossietzky, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.] I do not know whether these honorable men have also protested against the slaying and burning of tens of thousands of men, women, and children in Spain. We are assured that the number of people slain in Spain is 170,000. On this basis we would have had the right to murder 400,000 to 500,000 people in the Nazi Revolution!

The National Socialist program replaces the liberalistic conception of the individual by the conception of a people bound by their blood to the soil. Of all the tasks with which we are confronted, it is the grandest and most sacred task of man to preserve his race. This will not lead to an estrangement of the nations; on the contrary, it will lead for the first time to a mutual understanding. It will also prevent the Jewish people from trying to disintegrate and dominate other people under the mask of an innocent bourgeoisie.

BEHIND every murder stood the same power which is responsible for this murder; behind these harmless insignificant fellow-countrymen who were instigated and incited to crime stands the hate-filled power of our Jewish foe, a foe to whom we had done no harm, but who none the less sought to subjugate our German people and make of it its slave - the foe who is responsible for all the misfortune that fell upon us in 1918, for all the misfortune which plagued Germany in the years that followed. Those members of the Party and honorable comrades of ours all fell, and the same fate was planned for others: many hundreds survived as cripples or severely wounded, blinded or lamed; more than 40,000 others were injured. And among them were so many loyal folk whom we all knew and who were near and dear to us, of whom we were sure that they could never do any harm to anyone, that they had never done any harm to anyone, whose only crime was that they devoted themselves to the cause of Germany.

For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

We can do that.

[...]


I would not be running for President if I didn't believe with all my heart that this is what the vast majority of Americans want for this country. This union may never be perfect, but generation after generation has shown that it can always be perfected. And today, whenever I find myself feeling doubtful or cynical about this possibility, what gives me the most hope is the next generation - the young people whose attitudes and beliefs and openness to change have already made history in this election.

[Freya]

I love how you hopped on that Rye 'Cept i was more of talking about policies rather than just race. Also I was refering to the subject of how millions of Germans didn't know what was going on during the holocaust. Sorry I didn't specify for ya honey. But we're not talking about the exact thing and comparing the two of them in this thread. I was merely stating the fact that from the way Obama talks I can't gather much from him but it's inspirational.

[Psychotic]

Yeah, okay, they differ on a couple of issues. Although I think what everyone is saying about McCain's views on Iraq are being sensationalised. Here's a quote from the man himself.

The following are conditions I intend to achieve. ... By January 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom. The Iraq War has been won. ... The United States maintains a military presence there, but a much smaller one, and it does not play a direct combat role."

He wants the same thing Obama does - less US troops in Iraq, and no more fighting there. He just wants it done less rapidly than Obama does. That hardly makes him a crazy warmonger.

But let's look at other issues. Where do all three stand on the economy? Apparently they plan to strengthen the middle classes. Where do they stand on climate change? They all support a mandatory cap-and-trade system to reduce carbon emissions. Where do they stand on immigration? They all support a path to legalisation for illegal immigrants that includes learning English and paying fines. Iran? They all think tighter sanctions should be imposed, international co-operation utilised, and none have ruled out military action.

The thing I will say about McCain is that he apparently wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade and yeah that makes him a bit of a nutter in my eyes.

I think I will end up this post with a quote that sums all of this up perfectly: Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others.

[Ouch!]

I love how you hopped on that Rye :D 'Cept i was more of talking about policies rather than just race. Also I was refering to the subject of how millions of Germans didn't know what was going on during the holocaust. Sorry I didn't specify for ya honey. But we're not talking about the exact thing and comparing the two of them in this thread. I was mere stating the fact that from the way Obama talks I can't gather much from him but it's inspirational.

Rye's quotes are not exclusively focused on race. If you can't see that simply by reading the quotes from the respective speeches, there's really not use trying to explain it. Obama is fairly explicit in his intended policies. Perhaps you should read through his victory speech posted in this thread. If you can't gather much about his platform after that... well, I don't know what to say.

[Freya]

I love how you hopped on that Rye 'Cept i was more of talking about policies rather than just race. Also I was refering to the subject of how millions of Germans didn't know what was going on during the holocaust. Sorry I didn't specify for ya honey. But we're not talking about the exact thing and comparing the two of them in this thread. I was mere stating the fact that from the way Obama talks I can't gather much from him but it's inspirational.

Rye's quotes are not exclusively focused on race. If you can't see that simply by reading the quotes from the respective speeches, there's really not use trying to explain it. Obama is fairly explicit in his intended policies. Perhaps you should read through his victory speech posted in this thread. If you can't gather much about his platform after that... well, I don't know what to say.

Honey, she added one in there as I was typing xD As a person who isn't really into politics listening to a really long speech where the first ten minutes are how great it was getting this far..... yeah i'm gonna close that.

And dear god i'm not bashing the guy, i'm gonna freaking vote for him and I was going to from the start. I was just trying to bring the point that he's persuasive like Hitler was. I wasn't saying he was going to kill off a bunch of people or anything. Just saying he has the power to sway the people.

EDIT: nor do I want to read it. It looked too long. and I'm lazy

[Clouded Sky]

Yeah, okay, they differ on a couple of issues. Although I think what everyone is saying about McCain's views on Iraq are being sensationalised.

Oh, right. McCain knows what he's talking about.:rolleyes2

Anyway, I can't tell you how excited I am for Obama to have gotten the necessary delegates. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, though I'm not sure how much he can change, he seems to have the biggest drive of any candidate to actually try to change things. After 8 years of idiocy, change would be nice.

Additionally, it would be stupid for Obama to pick HRC as his VP candidate. Approx 50% of voters have a negative view of Clinton, some of those enough so that people would not vote for Obama, and a lot of Clinton supporters dislike Obama so much that even if she was teh VP they wouldn't vote democratic.