Artemisia and the QM theory

[champagne supernova]

I'm going to address these theories seperately.

Why Artemisia has very little/no relevance to Final Fantasy 8

If Square-Enix were going to base someone on a mythological Greek character, and considering the high quality of translations throughout VIII, one would think that they would give them the correct name when translating it to English.

It doesn't matter if they didn't translate it into Artemisia in the English version, because they already did it in the Japanese version. I think the Japanese version is the most important version of all other versions because it was the first version to be made.

Japanese transalation works out as Arutimishia. Granted, it sounds a bit like Artemisia, but not much.

Anyway, her name isn't the only thing to prove something, but also Ultimecia has similarities as Artemisia. Like what I said in the first post, the messages of the paintings in Ultimecia's castle are based on Greek. If Ultimecia wasn't Artemisia or interested in Greek or whatever else then why did she have them in her castle? Why does her castle exist? Why the greek stuff in her castle? At least, this theory kind of fit all the patterns together to me.

Someone has already pointed out that the messages are Latin. So, the Greek stuff must go.

Also, of interest about Artemisia is that her husband, Maussolus, was her brother. Squall & Rinoa are not brother and sister. And one cannot say that Artemisia was in fact mad. I went looking for the ash drinking reference you made, and could only find it in Wikipedia, at this link: Artemisia II of Caria - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
where it states:
She is said to have mixed his ashes in her daily drink, and to have gradually pined away during the two years that she survived him.

Now, "She is said to have" from an article on Wikipedia is definitely not a substantiated truth, especially when what is said to have happened does not have any citation. Who is this person who said this? Seeing that I could not find any other article that referred to this ash drinking, I would think this is usual Wikipedia nonsense. Also, considering the way she tactically outclassed and defeated the Rhodians, I would think that her mental facilities were operating quite well, thank you very much.

Excuse me? I actually got this information from:

Artemisia II of Caria

Consisted of:

Ancient Greek Science and Technology

Created by Michael Lahanas (he also has demonstrated many other greek stuff), speaks Greek and he was born in Greece. Do you honestly think that he has made all this up? No, I don't think so.

If you look at the bottom of the information for the first link you provided: Artemisia II of Caria
you shall find that at the bottom, it in fact states that this was retrieved from Wikipedia.

The second link you provided: Ancient Greek Science and Technology
was an index. The only thing I could find that was relevant was the page on the Mausoleum, and that page also had a little statement at the bottom of the page stating that it was retrieved from Wikipedia.

So, unfortunately, you unknowingly have based several parts of your theory on Wikipedia. As I mentioned, in all the links I looked at on Artemisia, the Wikipedia one was the only one that mentioned this strange phenomenon. Clearly, something that gets information from Wikipedia will have the same flaws. Seeing that Michael Lahanas is willing to base his reputation on Wikipedia articles, his credibility is seriously dubious. And therefore, unless you find somewhere else to back up this madness, my point has to stand.

As for Artemisia being Mausolus's sister, I'm aware of that. But FF8 is a fantasy game and the FF series (including FF8) has represented so many metaphors based on the real life history. Not all the elements represented in FF are correct, that's what Final Fantasy is for.

It doesn't matter if they are real brother/sister, because in a sense, Artemisia loved Mausolus, just like Rinoa loved Squall, since FF8 is kind of based on a love theme.

They were incestuous lovers! I'm sorry, from what I've heard of Japan, it is quite a conservative place. I don't think Square would knowingly imply that one of the main characters was having an incestuous love affair with another main character.

The Mausoleum of Maussollos was not started by Artemisia, but by Maussolus. This is substantiated out of Wikipedia by articles such as this: Maussolus
There are differing versions on how far along the Mausoleum was when Maussolus' died. One article said that it had just begun, some said that it was almost completed, and some say that Artemisia just commissioned the artists to do the decoration. However, this is irrelevant. The key is that Maussolus, not Artemisia, started the idea.

Just like Squall started the idea of Griever, alias Lion. It's very possible that Squall has died in prior to the future of Ultimecia's existence. Ultimecia has decided to finish building the castle. Why else did she make the castle for? The castle also has Lion statues.

As mentioned before, it is not clearly stated whether Griever is a fiction of Squall's imagination, or a real GF. Also, my point was that Maussolus planned a tomb for him & his wife, not Artemis. So, Artemis, of her own accord, would have done nothing.

The lion on the coin was quite interesting. But take a look at this article: Caria
On the bottom left hand corner are some pictures of Carian coins, circa 200. And, one is a lion. This is after Maussolus' time. Also, according to this article: Silver Lion Coinage of Mylasa in Caria (Ancient Coins of Miletos)
the Carians stole the lion coin idea from their neighbour, and it first appeared in the time of Maussolus' father.

Indeed, when Mausolus died, his Lion statues and coins as well as his castle show up. Just like after Squall's time, his Lion statues show up. His love between Rinoa were expressed and represented in the game. The coin has a star symbol as Rinoa pointing at the star. Quite hard to reject that comparison, don't you think?

Again, missing my point. You were saying that because the coins were similar to in-game events, it reinforced the Ultimecia being Artemisia, and therefore Rinoa theory. My point is that these coins were created before Maussolus' time, and therefore have little to do with him.

The Mausoleum has a greater resemblance to Edea's house, with the pillars surrounding it. The paintings in Ultimecia's castle are on canvas, and canvas painting only occured much after (like 1400 AD) the building of the Mausoleum. There are also carpets, wooden stairs, etc. which gives Ultimecia's castle a resemblance to a Renaissance era castle, not an ancient Greek castle.

Yes, but remember that there's a reason why Edea's house existed: it's used as an orphanage.

We don't know the reason why Ultimecia's castle existed. That's why, with this theory, it gives you clues to think of how Ultimecia's castle existence start in the first place. Think about it, Ultimecia is a very powerful being, she has had so many options to do. For instance, Ultimecia can fly through the whole universe through her magic, so why does she need a castle for? Usually, most things represented in games have meanings. If a thing in a game has no meaning, that thing wouldn't have existed. Why would the FF8 designers waste thier time making/putting "useless" things in the game? That wouldn't make sense, right? So I'm more inclined to believe that her castle was supposed to have a meaning, which is a symbolism of a thing (you know which) from the history.

But the castle bears no resemblance to the Mausoleum of Maussolus. So, how are they related if they bear no resemblance?

This Artemisia connection was far-fetched to begin with, even if all the facts were true. But, after doing a little bit of checking of the facts, NOT ONE RELEVANT FACT IS ACTUALLY TRUE!

Fact 1) The greeks and other religious things in this game.

^ The paintings, her stuff.... and so on.

What Greek paintings, stuff etc. is there in the game that relates to Ultimecia?

Fact 2) Ultimecia didn't clarify her motives / objectives.

^ Dr Odine has speculated this one but speculation is a speculation; never a first hand account from Ultimecia herself or anyone close enough to her to know for sure.

Yes, this is a fact, but what relevance does it have here.

Fact 3) The game doesn't tell us anything about her past. Judging by the story, there's also no guarantee that Ultimecia even remembered anything about her past.

^
Artemisia drank ashes for two reasons: surviving Mausolus whom she was with and she was extremely crazy. Who would want to drink ashes anyways?

If Artemisia was extremely crazy, it's very reasonable for her to forget about her past. Just like Ultimecia.

As mentioned above, find me another article, that doesn't use Wikipedia's article, which says that Artemisia was mad. And I mean a credible article. Because, all the articles I looked at in my original post did not mention anything about Artemisia going mad, or drinking ashes.

Fact 4) The game doesn't show us events from each timeline. In the end, we got transported to the future's timeline, but did it show us what happened before that timeline? No, it didn't. Same with other missing timelines. Most people (includingthe FF8 designers) know that Time Travel is usually subjective and definitive. FF8 didn't show us extra timelines, so hench they leave us to make our own interpretations (obviously).

Yes, there is a missing timeline. And yes, one can form an opinion. But the validity of an opinion must lie in the realm of facts. And I'm still looking for a relevant one.

Fact 5) The name of Ultimecia is actually Artemisia in the Japanese version.

As mentioned above, the translation is actually Arutimishia. So, also not a fact.

Oh, and I can answer my first question about why Squaresoft translated it to Ultimecia. It was so people did not get the wrong idea.

In that case, translating Aerith into Aeris in the English version to ensure that people didn't get the wrong idea doesn't sound right.

But if you were actually correct, then why didn't Square translate it into Ultimecia in the Japanese version, instead of Artemisia?

Back to Fact 5. The direct translation is not Artemisia, it's Arutimishia. Bit of a mouthful! So, they decided that Ultimecia got the message across, and prevented people from thinking - "Hey, that sounds like an ancient Greek person. Maybe it's got something to do with the game."

Is there a historical or mythological creature called Aeris or Aerith, outside of FFVII? Don't think so. So, what does this have to do with anything?

Firstly, just because someone is able to do something, does not mean that they are going to do it. My car can go x km/h. This does not mean I am going to drive it at x km/h. Same applies to Rinoa.


Secondly, there is no evidence from the game that Rinoa is able to travel forwards in time. Excluding time compression, there is no evidence of a being moving their entire being through time to another point. Time compression is a freak occurence, and obviously has never been completed, as the game would not be able to occur if all time was compressed into one state. Ellone and Ultimecia, through her machine, are moving mental consciousnesses to people in the past. And, in Ellone's case, not changing anything. But that is very different to moving one's entire body through time & space.

Thirdly, the QM theory only states that if one moves backwards through time, you will not change the present. But it is possible that it rules out forward time travel (I am no scientist, so I may be wrong). The way I picture it is that we are kind of like a train. From the present, if I look back, there is only a single railway track. If I move back into the past, I will not be able to change the present. However, the future is still uncertain, and as such there is an infinite number of railway tracks, illustrating all my possibilities. Therefore, one cannot move forwards through it, because one cannot know what the future actually is.

Yes, there is evidence. Ellone/Ultimecia can travel through time. If they can travel through time, then someone else can do too.

You missed the first point. Just because someone can travel through time, doesn't mean they actually will travel. There has to be a reason why Rinoa would travel into the future, which has not been provided by you.

Secondly, Ellone & Ultimecia consciousness travels through time, not their whole body. So, there is no evidence of someone moving themselves completely from one time to another.

Thirdly, Ellone & Ultimecia consciousness travel backwards through time. No evidence of it moving forward.

Completely flawed? Why don't you make a theory to prove that R=U is truly false? Because it's exactly the same thing, there's no evidence that it's truly false (apart from the Human Life Span explanation).

Except for the Human Life Span explanation!?! The one that says that Rinoa cannot naturally be alive in Ultimecia's time. That is quite a problem in the R=U theory.

And I have made one that completely disproves the R=U theory.

Ultimecia is actually Aeris. Therefore it can't be Rinoa. During the events of VII, Aeris fell through the fabric of time and space and landed in VIII. She wanted to go back to VII and thought she could achieve this through Time Compression.

Now, Serapy, please disprove this

& for everyone else, I don't actually believe it. But, I'll pretend I do.