Yeah I was wondering that thing about the (SPOILER)BOATS too, but I guess we'll never know. It would've been more twisted that way but the point was the people on the boat didn't want to do it like the Joker thought they would.
Oh, and the trailers clearly mentioned Harvey Dent being in the movie.
Kaycee says (12:06 AM):
whos' obama?
It's not a question of can they replace Ledger. Of course they can. It's not like there's some sort of death clause that says that they can't. It's a question of will they replace Ledger and the answer is no.
Now as for how successful a replacement would be... well let me just say that if Heath Ledger hadn't died, I do not doubt for a second that he would have gone on to be considered one of the world's most acclaimed actors.
This isn't the first time Heath Ledger has proven himself to be more than an decent actor. I was blown away by his performance in Brokeback Mountain. Seriously one of the most captivating performances I've ever seen on screen. Ever. And this isn't newly discovered praise that I'm heaping just cause he's dead. If you search back a few years, you'll be sure to find posts from me praising him to the heavens for his acting prowess. I don't think people should underestimate just how rare and gifted an actor Ledger was and really what a stunning loss he was to the film industry.
I can't think of another actor of his generation who can go toe to toe with Ledger. Sure there are plenty of really great actors out there: Leonardo DiCaprio, James McAvoy, Adrien Brody, Ryan Gosling, Ewan McGregor, Casey Affleck, Gael Garcia Bernal, etc. Even before his performance as the Joker, Ledger showed signs of genius that went beyond what his peers were doing. So who exactly can match what Ledger did, let alone raise the bar higher? I'm interested in hearing some suggestions, cause I can't think of any, although maybe an unknown might be able to do the job.
I just went back and searched for some of my thoughts on Ledger back in 2005 and I found that a lot of my praise for his performance in Brokeback Mountain can be applied to his performance in the Dark Knight. And it's so strange considering how vastly different the two roles are.
Originally Posted by Miriel
Basically, I think Ledger was a genius. Pure and simple. Someone, someday may top Ledger's Joker but for right now I can't see it being done. And I don't think they'll even try.
I agree entirely about Ledger's acting skill; I saw Brokeback Mountain for the first time not long before his death.
Because of the timing of his passing, I agree it'll be an emotionally difficult decision to cast someone else as the 'next' Joker, but I still think it could happen. There'd be questions of sensitivity and exploitation, but if they could recast Dumbledore in the Harry Potter films following the death of the legendary Richard Harris, then they can do the same for the Joker.
But they had to recast Dumbledore. It's not like they could just write him out of the movies. Plus, I hate to say it, but I thought Richard Harris did a rather lackluster job as Dumbledore and if I were the director, I would have recast him regardless.
I just think that Nolan and the entire cast and crew would be very reluctant to bring someone in to fill Ledger's shoes. I just feel like Ledger's death was too tragic, too recent and his performance too good that they would try and replace him when it's not exactly necessary.
Now it's a different story with The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus, which was the last project that Ledger was working on. He only got halfway through production before he died, and so Jude Law, Johnny Depp, and Colin Farrel have all agreed to to pick up where Ledger left the role so that the film could be completed and as a way to pay tribute to the actor.
The next batman movie doesn't have to have a Joker in it. I'm sure they planned on it, but there are other villains to work with and the Joker's part in Dark Knight was complete and whole and it's not like there has to be a continuation of his story in the next film.
I see what you mean there, but I still reckon they could 'resurrect' the character without breaching the bounds of good taste. He's Batman's nemesis, after all, and the film made it clear he was captured and incarcerated. I can imagine the studio making a point of him escaping the asylum and re-emerging as 'a new man', perhaps with a whole new aspect to his personality or appearance... that way, they'd avoid the problem of having someone play 'the same Joker' as Ledger while ensuring that it's still the same character.
He's just such a quintessential part of the Batman mythos, past and present. To 'kill' a major character completely after the accidental death of the man responsible for a particularly fine performance... it just seems like a waste of the material and potential of the character, especially since other fictional characters have survived the loss of their performers.
I just came back from seeing it and surprise surprise, I loved it. Heath Ledger was great but I wouldn't say better than Jack Nicholson because they played such different characters. Heaths Joker was more of a psychopath than a clown. His character did wore a little thin near the end but I think it was due to the film being too long. The first few scenes with him in them were easily the best parts of the movie.
I also liked the guy who played Harvey Dent. But that's was leads me to the end of the film (SPOILER) He shouldn't have died in my opinion, I would of looked forward to him being in the third Batman. He should have killed Joker in the hospital and the film should have ended. It would have cut a lot of the film out and made the third Batman more anticipated
The last thing that I disliked which holds true to Begins as well is the lack of Danny Elfman's score. The music was still good but Elfman's Batman theme is the Batman theme in my opinion. Nothing is a true Batman flick without it.
Last edited by Dreddz; 07-24-2008 at 09:06 PM.
Elfman's fantasy, hero-like theme isn't suited for the gritty, realistic world Nolan created. It's a better score by leaps and bounds from a pure musical sense, but the Zimmer/Howard score is far more in line with the tone of the Nolan films. And it is a good score on it's own, just not on the caliber of Elfman.
I understand what you are saying but nostalgia will always take the best of me. Because Burtons Batman's had the best musical scores out of any film Ive ever seen I do take it quite personal when they removed them from Nolans Batmans.
Oh and if were comparing films I still think Michael Keaton is a better Batman than Christian Bale. Bale does Bruce Wayne great but Batman.....meh. His voice while being Batman is laughable and I really don't know why he does it like that.
Last edited by Dreddz; 07-24-2008 at 06:38 PM.
Finally saw it last night. Ledger's Joker reminds me of Forest Whitaker's amazing performance of Idi Amin in the Last King of Scotland. Both did masterful jobs of portraying psychopaths with a charismatic and charming side. Very creepy and disturbing.
Just saw it today, and it met and exceeded expectations. As far as strengths go, the writing and directing was great, while the acting was nothing less than superb.
I have to agree with Dreddz on a number of points, though. For one, I think alot of people are being a little quick to deify Heath Ledger's the Joker. As a fan of the comics, I have to say that Ledger played a psychopath with a humorous spin, but Jack Nicholson was The Joker. Also, one of the most recognized characteristics is the iconic laugh, and his fell very short of Nicholson in the first Burton movie and Mark Hamill in the animated series. While Ledger needed witty writing and extreme situations to get his point across, Nicholson was able to do it with something as simple as "I'm glad you're dead."
But that's not to say he didn't surpass expectations. Same with Aaron Eckhart, who I think knocked it out the park with Two Face. I just kind of feel that (SPOILER)with Eckhart still alive, they killed off the wrong villain. One of the aspects I like best about Nolan's movies are that he doesn't cop out by using the entire criminal lifespan of villains for the sake of individual movies, so I'm surprised to see that he disappointed in this way. It's unfortunate that Ledger died especially because (SPOILER)Nolan obviously wrote him to appear in many movies down the road.
Some of my criticisms relate to the graphic novel "The Dark Knight Returns". It is the basis for the entire modern conception of Batman, not to mention the movies. With Superhero movies being so prominent today, not to mention Frank Miller himself, the inevitability of this seeing a cinematic depiction may come sooner than expected. This movie throws it off a little with (SPOILER)Two Face's death and already introducing Batman copy cats.
None of this keeps it from being an A+ effort and I'm really looking forward to Nolan and Bale's next interpretation of Batman.
Okay so I saw it again, and I don't know if other people have said this yet, but I think I realized why Batman's voice was weirder this time around. I think it's the mask, there's no place to breathe through his nose, if you notice he's gaping his mouth like a fish the whole movie.
Kaycee says (12:06 AM):
whos' obama?
I saw it earlier; utterly fantastic. Heath Ledger blew me away.
He's friggin perfect for the role of Alfred. Seriously. I respect that the old Alfred was good for those movies, but I just can't think of another Alfred now. Michael Caine is the man.
Saw it this evening and really enjoyed it. Much better than I expected it to be; I'd heard a lot of hype about how good it was and rather successfully managed to avoid learning anything about the film at all. Naturally I had no idea (SPOILER)about Two-Face being in the film, but it was definitely good. I also expected Dent to be built up into a villain for the next film. I actually thought it was a pretty good performance of Dent. I think that Two-Face could easily had justified being the main villain in another film, though I'm unsure whether or not he could be after the role in this film. I'd certainly like him to reappear later though.
A lot of the discussion has centred around Ledger's portrayal of the Joker. I must admit, when I saw the still photos of the Joker, I didn't particularly like how he was. However having seen the film, I really liked the performance. I must admit, I did think that a lot of the praise for Ledger was coloured by his recent death, but I think his performance was well deserving of the praise. Excellent villain for an excellent film. Definitely one of the best films I've seen lately and probably the best superhero film I've seen at all.
Though I did think that that mob boss looked a lot like Michael Portillo.
Not my words Carol, the words of Top Gear magazine.
WHY WON'T ANYONE SEE THIS MOVIE WITH ME?
:kaoangry:
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