Overratedroth.

[Forsaken Lover]

Kuja is the best FF villain.

...what? Kefka was mentioned so I'm gonna fanboy for my fave villain too.

[Drajeu]

Reading through the posts, one thing's for sure, Kefka and Sephiroth are two of the most "insert your choice here" villains.
One thing about Final Fantasy games in general is they REALLY make you hate the villain. They really make you anxious to get to them to wring their necks.
From that perspective I think Sephiroth is more successful in doing that than Kefka. Why? in general people will hate more someone who kills their child than someone who kills one million people on the other side of the globe. Sure, Kefka destroys the world, but Sephiroth kills the ones close to you, characters you learn to love. I know it's a game, but I really felt an emptiness when he kills Aerith. Then Sephiroth makes you do a lot of his work than just steals it from you and laughs in your face. I know, Kefka does the same when he uses you to get the Espers, but, I don't know, Sephiroth is more personal. And this is the bottom line: of all villains I fought in 25+ years Sephiroth will always be the one who got most personal.

As far as evil goes, Kefka is probably more evil than Sephiroth, but I think it's unfair to base it just on the lack of accomplishments. Is Bin Ladden any less evil than Hitler? Or was Saddam Hussein any less evil than Stalin?
Now I will give Kefka's fans this: what makes Kefka great is because he just is evil, he just wants to destroy everything, there's no reason behind it, there's no justification. I always tell people: even Hitler didn't wake up in the morning and say "I'm evil and I'll kill people because I'm evil (or because I want to kill people)". In his mind Hitler had justification. Of all the famous villains only the joker in the Dark Knight is evil without a reason. Which I think is the main reason the joker in Dark Knight was one hell of a villain.
As far as the final battle, kefka's one sick bastard, I was a little disappointed with Sephiroth's final battle. But I liked a lot more the end story of FF7 than FF6.

Last, the Jenova/Sephiroth story line is a lot more interesting than Kefka's story line.
So personally I'd vote Sephiroth as the "most" villain, but definitely Kefka comes in a close second and the joker even a closer third.

[Greatermaximus]

What's the point in justifying whether you like the villian? That wasn't the only reason to play the game that you know about.

What if we began the game as a duel like Squall and Seifer? Cloud vs. Sephiroth? We have a hero and a villian in this case because we know they both have something to protect.

[Loony BoB]

What's the point in justifying whether you like the villian?

It's a thread about which villain you think is the best. What else would you say in the thread but which villain you like and why?

I mean, if you're going to get down to it, nothing we say on this forum will ever really matter on a global scale, especially when what we're discussing is a video game. I'm not sure what you're getting at, here.

[The Crystal]

The concept of Jenova(a powerful creature with control over it's cells and the ability to regenerate/reunite them when split, and the ability to mimic other people and affect their minds) is the same concept of Post-Nibel Sephiroth, because they are one and the same now.
The only difference is that Sephiroth doesn't let parasitic instincts guide all his actions(this is why he wants to become a god, instead of only destroying everything for destruction's sake, like Jenova did).

And about Reunion... After falling in the Lifestream, Sephiroth merged with Jenova's head and started calling for Reunion himself. That's why the Reunion happened at the Crater(where he was located) and not at the ShinRa building(where Jenova's main body was initially located). Hojo himself explains that in the game.

[The Crystal]

Sephiroth and Jenova are one now.
Whoever think that Jenova is(or was) cooler/better/stronger/more-interesting than Sephiroth(after Nibelheim), didn't understand the story very well.

[Greatermaximus]

Is there an objective view?

There's definately facts involved with this story. Like in your sig the planet didn't fight back because the statues misalignment was too much for it to handle.

But that story is unwritten and inconclusive. It's hard if not impossible to justify and determine how much great or worse Kefka was a villian based on global destruction.

A bad deed is still a bad deed. Kefka and Sephiroth are both guilty of murder, trespassing, pillaging, and paraside.

Maybe one and/or the other succeeded in more ways but considering the level of destruction I don't see an objective argument for arguing best.

I'm not sure if this debate is going anywhere because in order to like someone over another you'd have to be favoritistic.

In reality and til the end of time I'm sure the Kefka/Seph fan bases will be divided on this. Especially those who choose one villian over the other.

In the very end there's no way to know which one is better and probably doesn't matter.

We can also leave it with a double negative.

"Most likely Kef and Seph feared each other for their differences, but were absolutely terrified at their similarities."

[Clo]

Sephiroth and Jenova are one now.
Whoever think that Jenova is(or was) cooler/better/stronger/more-interesting than Sephiroth(after Nibelheim), didn't understand the story very well.

Er, finding Jenova more interesting doesn't mean there's a lack of comprehension for the storyline. She does have a background story, you know. Which is interesting. Therefore, I find her cooler, and more interesting, and I understand the game, so.

It's called subjectivity.

[The Crystal]

Like in your sig the planet didn't fight back because the statues misalignment was too much for it to handle.

No, the planet didn't fight back because FFVI's planet is not a living and conscious being.
My sig shows that "Kefka is better because he destroyed the world" is not a good argument, because Kefka didn't have to go against the world itself to win. He didn't have an opposition as big as Sephiroth's(fighting against Avalanche, ShinRa, and the Planet itself, is harder than just fighting against the Returners). That's my point.

Er, finding Jenova more interesting doesn't mean there's a lack of comprehension for the storyline. She does have a background story, you know. Which is interesting. Therefore, I find her cooler, and more interesting, and I understand the game, so.

It's called subjectivity.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well. What I meant is, saying that Jenova is cooler than Sephiroth because of what she is(her nature), is a fallacy, because Sephiroth and Jenova are identical in nature by now.

[Goldenboko]

Er, finding Jenova more interesting doesn't mean there's a lack of comprehension for the storyline. She does have a background story, you know. Which is interesting. Therefore, I find her cooler, and more interesting, and I understand the game, so.

It's called subjectivity.

Perhaps I didn't express myself well. What I meant is, saying that Jenova is cooler than Sephiroth because of what she is(her nature), is a fallacy, because Sephiroth and Jenova are identical in nature by now.

But, at one point they were separate identities, which makes it possible for an individual to prefer one over the other.

[champagne supernova]

Kefka and Sephiroth are both guilty of murder, trespassing, pillaging, and paraside.

Trespassing? To be honest, I think the heroes are all guilty of that too haha (except in XIII because you can't run into random people's houses and steal the stuff in their chests).

I would say that Kefka is probably less cruel than Sephiroth. Kefka wishes to destroy the world because he is a misguided nihilist. He believes life is meaningless pain and therefore he wishes to end it all for everyone, releasing them into the sweet embrace of death. From his perspective, this is a nice thing to do.

Sephiroth on the other hand wishes to destroy a world merely to gain its power and become a God and then rule over another planet. His intention is therefore purely self-centered which makes him slightly more villainous (motive-wise).

Sephiroth also enjoys screwing with Cloud's mind. There are opportunities where he could have destroyed Cloud, but he chose to rather let him live so he could gain some thrill out of taunting him. A plan that ultimately backfires. Kefka on the other hand is more of a physical destruction kind of person.

Although Sephiroth didn't achieve his goals, it doesn't make him less villainous. It just means that the opposition against him were more skilled. And ultimately, what it comes down to, is that Sephiroth burnt down your village and killed a character close to you. Kefka may have poisoned Doma, but there is no real emotional attachment to the place. There is only the one scene in the Forest with the train where you feel Cyan's misery. It is more kind of like: Kefka poisons castle. Cyan becomes angry challenges him. Party helps Cyan. Cyan joins party.

Whereas Sephiroth's destruction of Nibelheim occurs after you make an attachment with the characters (as you will have played with them). The flashback also creates attachments to Cloud's mum (for example). So when Sephiroth burns it down and almost kills Tifa, it has a greater emotional impact.

I don't think Sephiroth killing Aeris needs to be explained. And there is no counter-argument that Kefka did something similar.

They're both cool, but I prefer Sephiroth as a villain because of the personal feel of the villainy he does. He also does have a cool backstory and he would technically be the Fallen Hero type of villain.

[VeloZer0]

I would say that Kefka is probably less cruel than Sephiroth. Kefka wishes to destroy the world because he is a misguided nihilist. He believes life is meaningless pain and therefore he wishes to end it all for everyone, releasing them into the sweet embrace of death. From his perspective, this is a nice thing to do.

This would be true if he was into killing people swiftly as opposed to drawing out their miserable existences and killing them slowly for enjoyment.

Sephiroth on the other hand wishes to destroy a world merely to gain its power and become a God and then rule over another planet. His intention is therefore purely self-centered which makes him slightly more villainous (motive-wise).

Sephiroth generally stuck to killing people who were in his way. For him killing people was a means not an end. Killing someone for a reason is generally regarded as less evil than killing for fun.

Sephiroth also enjoys screwing with Cloud's mind. There are opportunities where he could have destroyed Cloud, but he chose to rather let him live so he could gain some thrill out of taunting him. A plan that ultimately backfires. Kefka on the other hand is more of a physical destruction kind of person.

I think he just saw it as more of a way to use his tool. Up until after Mideel Sephiroth always felt he had complete control over Cloud so he was no threat, and since he could be used as a tool why would he kill him. And breaking Cloud's mind was an important part of actually getting the Black Materia.

Although Sephiroth didn't achieve his goals, it doesn't make him less villainous. It just means that the opposition against him were more skilled. And ultimately, what it comes down to, is that Sephiroth burnt down your village and killed a character close to you. Kefka may have poisoned Doma, but there is no real emotional attachment to the place. There is only the one scene in the Forest with the train where you feel Cyan's misery. It is more kind of like: Kefka poisons castle. Cyan becomes angry challenges him. Party helps Cyan. Cyan joins party.

Whereas Sephiroth's destruction of Nibelheim occurs after you make an attachment with the characters (as you will have played with them). The flashback also creates attachments to Cloud's mum (for example). So when Sephiroth burns it down and almost kills Tifa, it has a greater emotional impact.

I duno, I was kind of attached to the entire world that Kefka f'ed up.

I don't think Sephiroth killing Aeris needs to be explained. And there is no counter-argument that Kefka did something similar.

This I agree with you on. Anyone who even brings up General Leo as an equivalent example is out of their mind. However, I personally place far more importance on world destruction as a measure of villainy than personal closeness to the victims.

They're both cool, but I prefer Sephiroth as a villain because of the personal feel of the villainy he does. He also does have a cool backstory and he would technically be the Fallen Hero type of villain.

I could never get over the whole clown look Kefka has going on. Suits him perfectly but I'm still not a fan.

In summary, I think Kefka was a better villain but I like Sephiroth better. And I don't think Sephiroth ever gets his fair due. He is either highly over rated, or highly under rated by most people.

[Sephiroth]

I think he just saw it as more of a way to use his tool. Up until after Mideel Sephiroth always felt he had complete control over Cloud so he was no threat, and since he could be used as a tool why would he kill him. And breaking Cloud's mind was an important part of actually getting the Black Materia.

It is extremely important for Sephiroth to torture Cloud. Because of his psychic abilities, shapeshifting and the power to control JENOVA cells he can almost use everyone as his tool so it is not just that he wanted to control Cloud to get the Black Materia. Sephiroth is enormously arrogant because he knows he is the strongest of all - and he knew it during his "hero time" as well but he didn't care that much about how popular and how famous he was. But when Cloud, one of the weakest characters (at this moment of the story) you can imagine succeeds in stopping Sephiroth from taking revenge he got...how should I call that..."pissed off". And that is no joke. He was proud of his strength and being defeated by a normal ShinRa soldier was the worst moment for him. That is why he wants to show Cloud how weak he is compared to Sephiroth, why he wants to break his mind completely and then wants to kill him physically after he has killed Cloud mentally. Not to mention the story would be very short in case Sephiroth kills Cloud just because he says "Mhh, nah - I think I use one of my clones who isn't the main character to get the Black Materia, I don't care about the story line.".

And I love Kefka's outfit. His whole story about his past is tragic and great at the same time. Like Sephiroth's.

[VeloZer0]

Did Sephiroth make the connection that it was the same person who threw him into the Lifestream? It never seemed like it to me. He always seemed to be largely indifferent to Cloud, until you killed the piece of Jenova in the northern crater and took the Black Materia back. After that he saw Cloud as a real threat and proceeded to crush him.

My main point was that his crushing of Cloud's mind was done (mostly) for utility, not just pleasure as Kefka would have.

[Sephiroth]

It is stated in the Ultimania Omega so there's no doubt. His meaning of life excluding absorbing life energy and so becoming the most powerful being in the universe is to take revenge on Cloud because he has "damaged" his pride. And of course using him as his own puppet is part of his revenge - I mean, he wanted Cloud to kill Aerith - that's way more cruel than what he did to Aerith by himself.

And the evil Sephiroth - so the VILLAIN, not the hero - is completely emotionless like JENOVA is. The only moments when he is amused are the moments when he shows how much more powerful he is compared to Cloud and the others. So the moments when he tortures Cloud as well.