Quote Originally Posted by felfenix View Post
Yeah, but let's be real. When have you ever needed to anything remotely tactical in an ATB Final Fantasy? FF10 was the first FF in a LONG time in which you couldn't just spam your strongest attack. If I really want "pressure" I'd want it to be something skill-based. Does anyone really have trouble pressing X when the command window opens up?
This isn't an argument against ATB though, it's an argument against battle systems that have little depth and player agency: something that is separate from ATB all together. And I would certainly agree with you. It's been quite a while since an FF game required, or at the very least, made it worth using strategies other than mash X to win. FFIV, FFV, and FFIX probably being the only real examples, but even those could be improved. But again, that's not arguing against ATB, it's arguing against something else entirely. There is absolutely no reason that an ATB system can't require more strategy than that, just as there's no reason a turn based game can't either. Ironically, your using the example of FFXII later in your post practically makes that point for me.

It's the fact that ATB doesn't do anything but combine the worst aspects of turn-based and active. It has the button mashing simplicity of active games, with the static failings of turn based games. It's not like you even have to react at specific times, to dodge or make an attack. Nope, you just press X when the bar fills up. The can tape down the X button, and the game plays itself.
Again, ATB does not necessitate button mashing simplicity in a combat system. ATB is nothing more than the system of waiting for a bar, representing your characters turn, to fill before you can take actions, thereby depleting the bar and starting the cycle over again. In essence, it is a system for determining turn order, not the whole battle system (stats, abilities, immunities, etc.) unto itself. All you've done is argue that it has been used in games with some fairly shallow combat in the past. But the same argument can be made for a completely turn based system, real time system, or anything else you can think of. That does not mean that a system which exists separately from the rest of the battle system is itself inherently flawed.

I fail to see what benefit ATB has over something like FF12, which still had precious bars filling up, but at least allowed movement and seemless combat (instead of standing there clumped together for an AOE, and being teleported to the battle screen). If you value pressure, then something like KH, or even FF12, achieves that so much better.
As I said above, FFXII essentially does use the old ATB system for determining turn order. They simply added the aspect of real-time movement on top of it making movement around the battlefield a more key element than it had been before. Like I said, all this example really does is show that when you combine ATB with a battle system filled with valid strategic options and a decent difficulty level, it works very well.

However, a game like FF10, which is full turned based, replaces the "can I button mash faster than a computer" from ATB, and allows for more tactical and precise play.
I just want to touch on your mentioning of FFX as well, because although I like the concept behind the system, it's really not a great battle system overall, and certainly didn't remove the button mash simplicity of previous games, though it did give you plenty of time to think about when you were going to press X to win. It essentially was just a simple, straightforward, and highly transparent game of rock paper scissors. Learn the enemy types and which character is strong against them and you've pretty much got the game figured out. There may be some manipulation of turn order to gain an advantage, but usually only in the tougher boss fights. The majority of battles didn't require more than the occasional switching of a character and pressing the X button a few times.

The battle system had a lot of good ideas going for it, but in the end it was too simplified, and I'd even argue that it was almost too transparent about what everything's weakness was. And once you knew something's weakness you really weren't going to lose.