I find it amusing you think you know what I notice and what I don't but, you forget that most dialogue scenes of games like VII-IX usually begin with a camera change when you enter a new screen, like when you go into the elevators in VII or how often dialogue sequences usually take place at the beginning of a new location or at the end. So in a way, the fixed camera serves nothing more than as a tool for viewing the dungeons. I feel your argument is moot because its rare for a JRPG not to pull this, because very few games have dialogue scenes in the middle of dungeons unless something happens that makes it warrant being there, like entering a room where the switch is, or the magic artifact, or a boss. Or hell, like in VIII when you're being chased by the spider mech and everytime you enter a new area, you're party and the mech start in a neutral position once the map loads, as though they are taking cigarette breaks between loading screens and now you have to push forward to start moving again cause it doesn't register it all the time if you just hold it down. So technically these games really didn't bring in seamless camera work, of anything, the old 16-bit games did this all the time but we can chalk that all up o having to view everything from one angle due to tech limitations. I also don't necessarily feel the fixed camera/pre-rendered backgrounds did wonders for dungeon design because I honestly feel dungeon design in these games began to weaken in favor of just showing off visual locales.Originally Posted by Bolivar
I doubt you really believe it's "just as noticeable." The absence of the same perspective from gameplay, which is very rarely seamless at that, is an additional factor beyond lack of controller input and presentation of dialogue. It's an additional factor, so it's an obvious logical misstep to claim it's "just as noticeable."
Also, camera control is lost with dramatic set pieces, which is the crown jewel of modern game design, another element introduced by FFVII. The loss of control becomes very noticeable in these very intense scenes, whereas in games with fixed cameras, there is no transition.
This eventually devolved into what we are seeing in FFX and XIII with uninspired level design with eye candy wallpaper, instead of having the locations actually be memorable for themselves. So your" crowing jewel of modern game design" eventually turned into pretty colored glass instead of something that actually brought anything meaningful into game design, all it really did was segregate game and story from each other more. Even then, 95% of VII's locales are from a 3/4th angle or side perspective, so I don't know what you're smoking when you talk about how wonderful it was and how much it changed everything, especially since it wasn't exactly new in gaming either.
My real issue here, is that I don't really feel that the story part needs the bells and whistles of Hollywood movie magic to make it interesting, if the plot is good, the characters are likable, and the visuals and music fit the mood, then I don't need the dungeons and cutscenes to get the Stanley Kubrick treatment. I just started playing the demo for Type-0/Agito and one of the most visually impressive things it has done is a part at the beginning of the demo where my party rounded a corner and in the distance I saw two military trucks drive towards us, come to a stop somewhat far away and watch a platoon of enemy units get out to fire upon us, all while I was running towards it. If this had been any been the 16-bit/PSX era, the party would have stopped moving to watch the trucks come towards us and probably comment on it, had it been the PS2 era, the game would have stopped and loaded in a hi-res cutscene with the vehicles coming towards us in a fury and possibly watch my party dodge getting run over, all the while the game zooming in on close-ups and camera angles and making a big deal out of this group of guys with guns coming out is going to kick my ass but are unaware they are the games Imps. There has been some seriously cool visual effects with the enemies in this game, it is seamless but hampered by an awful camera and lack of a decent target system, but otherwise it was something simple but still created a great story moment as we busted into the town and created a real sense of the situation and all with a boring over the shoulder camera.
Despite all this, I don't necessarily feel that a fixed story camera is always a bad idea, but I just don't believe its as important, or as impressive as you give it. Of anything, I argue it should be used sparingly to maximize certain moments but not be overused cause not all elements in a game should be created to support just the plot. Wasn't that the lesson Xenogears taught you?Some of the most visually stunning sequences I've seen in games were ones with a movable camera but still it was done so well it was hard to move the camera and mess it up, like Team Ico's games.
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