faith's great

Not all women in games are walking sex toys pr damsels in distress, thats just your paranoia talking.
i don't think anyone's saying that all sorts of females and males AREN'T represented in gaming. but the extent, and the kind of impact it has is probably worth a discussion, isn't it? if it's all just moot and there's a legitimate argument that gaming as a medium isn't, on average, disingenuous to specific groups of people in terms of portrayal and storytelling, then we'll just show it and be on our merry way. i actually think that gaming is a more refined look at society than popular film, for example. but whether we're talking gaming or film, there's areas that could be good to analyze and even improve.

a positive portrayal is just a non-negative or a neutral portrayal, i guess, and there's all sorts of ways to be positive. but like, let's take a peep at a thread just above this one, the one with the 'best games', and see what kind of females those games have, imo:



1 Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - barring a stint as a secret warrior, princess needs to be saved, fairies have the pointiest boobs i've ever seen outside of a madonna movie, but let's excuse that due to pixels. i am stretching this, because i always thought zelda was a great character with a lot of strength, but for the majority of the game, she's a 'ptntbs'V

2 Super Mario 64 - princess that needs to be saved

3 Tetris - which block is the best block? THE LONG PHALLIC ONE DUH

4 Final Fantasy VII - hero solves problems with a sword, heroine solves problems by praying. actually i thought ff7 did a lot of things right; the sex trade/trafficking segments put it and the people running it in a negative light, and honey bee inn wasn't a terrible place the way don corneo's mansion was. i liked that tifa leads, but, you know, only until cloud gets back, BECAUSE HE DID SUCH A GREAT JOB LAST TIME ... well, wait, sorry, lucrecia is a princess that needs saving, aeris is a princess that needs saving (but you can't even do that), cloud is a princess that needs saving (at least they get another girl to save cloud from his coma or whatever)

5 Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - save the princess

6 GoldenEye 007 - i never played this tbh

7 Super Mario Bros. - princess? saving?

8 Half-Life 2 - alyx vance is placed there to get you to continue because she continuously is attracted to gordon/the player. she's a love interest, and i think her other purposes (plot progression, help, etc) are overshadowed by this. it's been a while since i've played it though. does she make any particularly important decisions in the game? the other woman in the game is a semi-bad guy, isn't she?

9 DOOM - OF COURSE the space marine is a giant burly man. i'm not going to argue that leaving out women entirely out of a game is an indication of anything, especially one of the first games to really make an impact on the art form. i mean, pong didn't have gender at all, and look how well it did.

10 Super Mario World - bro love


this is pretty fun let's keep going


11 Super Mario Bros. 3 - threee bros! actually, one of the mario games, and certainly the recent ones, allow you to play as the princesses, don't they? was it world? anyway,

12 Resident Evil 4 - women are either girls in need of escort/rescue or have their own agenda and will use you. or they're not fit for combat roles and do mission support remotely.

13 Super Metroid - a woman's role is as a mother. im just kidding i don't think that's what the game meant to convey.

14 Chrono Trigger - i really want to say there's a princess that needs saving in here someplace. or like, multiple princesses. doesn't matter though, because we have a girl that is good at math/technology, which i think is great!

15 Metal Gear Solid - "She had such a cute way of walking. She kind of wiggles her behind." "Way of walking, huh?" I liked sniper wolf way more than meryl as a character.

16 Street Fighter II - are there girls in this that don't have 90% of their legs showing? i'm all for wearing what you want but i think the intent is pretty clear with that. DISTRACT YOUR OPPONENT THEN BEAT HIM SENSELESS. it's interesting to note, however, that chun-li is a high ranking interpol officer, while ryu is like, what, a vagabond?

17 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare - no idea never played it.

18 Final Fantasy III (IV) - i'm having a hard time trying to find something here in terms of how it portrays women, other than celes is usually depressed, but i mean, look at friggin shadow. i actually think this game could be gender reversed and there wouldn't be any issues.

19 Grand Theft Auto IV - shruggin. ALTHO, when will they make a gta with a female lead? i can do it in saints row, why not yet here?

20 Legend of Zelda - the master sword is a phallic symbol and the tri force is a vagina. well guess who's got both in the end

i would say the ratio of games that have positive role models in this list is not super great. but keep on reading before you attack me. i actually didn't expect the ratio to be this good, so i am aware i have preconceptions of gaming and gaming culture too.

reading through this myself, i end up thinking that maybe to be a really good character that most people will agree on, the character has to be a lead character (lara, faith). most of the characters mentioned in this thread to support a 'positive portrayal' are leads. otherwise you just do not get enough exposure to a character and you end up making assumptions, or just straight up forgetting them later on when discussions like these come up. also, it'd be interesting to see how the list changes with years... most of the characters we mentioned are from _fairly recent games_, so perhaps it's a bit unfair to even try to analyze a list like this that spans a few decades. story writing has improved in gaming, i like to think.

one of the reasons a lot of the games that are well rated remain in memory is because you can identify with the lead in some way. and it's easy to put a young male into the picture because the majority of the market is just that. so it's a business decision to have a strong male lead, and now that the market's shifted, it might be a business decision to introduce other options. so while the audience is changing, character portrayals will also change.

i think the issue is that when people talk about video games, they talk about master chief and classic mario games, where the females are digital objects or goals to rescue. yes, there's great representations of women in gaming. but they're not the popularized characterizations you talk about when talking about gaming at large. why are the other games more popular? i can argue that gameplay is the reason; mario is just more fun to play than mirror's edge. halo is more fun than block puzzles in tomb raider.

i think we should actually make another thread titled 'Positive Portrayals of Men in Video Games', and see where the conversation takes us in that one, if anyone actually thinks it's necessary. i don't very often stop to think 'hey, this is weird' when beating up on stereotypical male grunts. on the other hand, when im fighting female soldiers or whatever i always feel a little weirded out by it. is it because i was raised in an environment where fighting boys was a-ok but hitting a girl never was? obviously i'm programmed somehow too.

MILF, is there an analysis piece we can read about Bayonetta?

tldr: i should not post at 4 am in the morning.