Will Final Fantasy XV's Cid be a Lady?

[Mirage]

Name one universally positive, 100% non-exploitative female role model in the Final Fantasy series.

Good luck.

Why universally positive? I can give you non-exploited. Faris.

Male dancers in FFV are dressed reasonably, female not so much.

They dress like dancers. Cindy doesn't dress like a mechanic. Stop embarrassing yourself.

[Del Murder]

Can't wait until Cidney's cleavage becomes the new EoFF banner.

[Mirage]

Ĺ

People seem perfectly comfortable to discard the ethnocentrism argument out of hand.

Achievement: Made forum uncomfortable!

Feel free to make a new thread to discuss this issue. However valid a point it is, it is off topic.

Or are you suggesting that we can't discuss one issue because other issues exist?

[Hannibal_Khan]

Also, just found out something interesting which might further explain the attire of various characters in this game.

Tetsuya Nomura would be the director and character designer, but not costume designer, as Square Enix signed a contract with Japanese fashion brand "Roen" to promote their clothing designs in the game through different characters. Roen Creative Director Himuro Takahara serves as the game's costume designer.

I guess we should expect fashionable costumes for fashion stores and nothing but fashionable costumes for fashion stores. I expect with the limited number of females that pretty much every female will be dressed by Roen.

You know what? To me, that's a far more justifiable reason. We can never expect the fashion industry to get any more progressive. The male/female ratio is ridiculous there too, but they are quite transparent about objectifying men as frequently as they can. So at least it's a money and promotional issue, rather than some crusty old Japanese suits saying "Here's a female character... and now HERE'S HER BOOBS!"

This also has relevance to the Tedtalk Shulp cited. Most the images Ms. Heldman's used a examples of sexualy objectified women seem to be coming from fashion magazines. Now I might be wrong here, but if i'm not mistaken those are majority women in those editorial rooms deciding what goes into those magazines, which are mainly marketed towards women.

And to the people saying, "Cid's outfit doesn't look like a mechanic outfit", I say yes it does. It looks like a sexy mechanic outfit. It's almost like this game is a "Fantasy based on reality". hmm why does that sound familiar?

It's Final Fantasy! It literally has Fantasy in the title. And like Bob said previously, most character's in FF are portrayed as beautiful(except for villains, of course, who are probably disproportionately older, white-men.)

And then their's deviant.art, where there are some truly great artist(and people) who often do something very natural......... They depict our beloved FF character's in very sexually explicit ways. Are they wrong for doing this? Should we all apologize for our sex drives now?

I still find Cid's outfit tame compared to other character's outfits, but yet I've never heard this level of criticism for those character's. Is her outfit gratuitous? sure. But is it egregious? nope. fairly consistent with the rest of the title's, IMO. Everyone on this thread knew what to expect when it comes to these games.

[Jinx]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

[Hannibal_Khan]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

yunalesca. And Tifa, imo. I still don't get why people are acting like cleavage is new.

[Jinx]

Tifa's outfit isn't bad that bad. Her skirt is maybe a little short, and her shirt is midriff but she doesn't even have cleavage, she just has large breasts (and they aren't even really that large in the actual game and official artwork). The shirt covers her breasts.

And cleavage isn't the problem. In any case, it's her entire outfit, not just her shirt. You're zoning in on one single thing. It's the fact that she's wearing a belly shirt, and a hot pants where you can see the top of her underwear, and smurf-me boots.

EDIT: You're also purposefully ignoring Shlup when she keeps repeating that the fact that it isn't news is exactly the problem.

[Mirage]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

yunalesca. And Tifa, imo. I still don't get why people are acting like cleavage is new.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it's fine. I hope I don't have to make a list over things that used to be fine but aren't anymore.

[Hannibal_Khan]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

yunalesca. And Tifa, imo. I still don't get why people are acting like cleavage is new.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it's fine. I hope I don't have to make a list over things that used to be fine but aren't anymore.

So cleavage isn't fine? why not? And as posted earlier, I've been a FF fan for many years, and have been active on this particular forum for several months but have never heard these criticism's levied on the older title's character's. It seems like up until 2 days ago, this was never really an issue for the people on these boards. So what's changed?

[Fox]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

yunalesca. And Tifa, imo. I still don't get why people are acting like cleavage is new.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it's fine. I hope I don't have to make a list over things that used to be fine but aren't anymore.

So cleavage isn't fine? why not? And as posted earlier, I've been a FF fan for many years, and have been active on this particular forum for several months but have never heard these criticism's levied on the older title's character's. It seems like up until 2 days ago, this was never really an issue for the people on these boards. So what's changed?

What's changed is that those other games have already been out for more than a decade. The criticisms came and ran their course a long time ago.

[Hannibal_Khan]

Tifa's outfit isn't bad that bad. Her skirt is maybe a little short, and her trout is midriff but she doesn't even have cleavage, she just has large breasts (and they aren't even really that large in the actual game and official artwork). The shirt covers her breasts.

And cleavage isn't the problem. In any case, it's her entire outfit, not just her shirt. You're zoning in on one single thing. It's the fact that she's wearing a belly shirt, and a hot pants where you can see the top of her underwear, and smurf-me boots.

EDIT: You're also purposefully ignoring Shlup when she keeps repeating that the fact that it isn't news is exactly the problem.

Oh, so Final Fantasy is the problem? Then why are you here? Vote with your dollars and go buy tetris are some other game where you will encounter exactly 0 sexualized characters.

I see no difference in cid's outfit compared to other's in the series. And I don't think that's a problem. Long live the beautiful Cidney and Yunalesca! Long live the sexy Kuja and Gladiolus! LONG LIVE FINAL FANTASY!

[Hannibal_Khan]

Except for FFX-2 Rikku, I honestly can't think of a single outfit that's more sexual than Cidney's.

yunalesca. And Tifa, imo. I still don't get why people are acting like cleavage is new.

Just because it isn't new doesn't mean it's fine. I hope I don't have to make a list over things that used to be fine but aren't anymore.

So cleavage isn't fine? why not? And as posted earlier, I've been a FF fan for many years, and have been active on this particular forum for several months but have never heard these criticism's levied on the older title's character's. It seems like up until 2 days ago, this was never really an issue for the people on these boards. So what's changed?

What's changed is that those other games have already been out for more than a decade. The criticisms came and ran their course a long time ago.

So the previous title's also further the outrageous act of sexualizing women, but everyone just let it go? Then you confirm my opinion. Cid's sexy outfit isn't really a big deal...

[Jinx]

AND THE FACT THAT YOU THINK OTHER OUTFITS IN THE SERIES LOOK LIKE HER OUTFIT PROVES THERE'S A PROBLEM.

JUST BECAUSE SOMETHING IS STATUS QUO DOESN'T MEAN IT'S OKAY.

[Jinx]

Tifa's outfit isn't bad that bad. Her skirt is maybe a little short, and her trout is midriff but she doesn't even have cleavage, she just has large breasts (and they aren't even really that large in the actual game and official artwork). The shirt covers her breasts.

And cleavage isn't the problem. In any case, it's her entire outfit, not just her shirt. You're zoning in on one single thing. It's the fact that she's wearing a belly shirt, and a hot pants where you can see the top of her underwear, and smurf-me boots.

EDIT: You're also purposefully ignoring Shlup when she keeps repeating that the fact that it isn't news is exactly the problem.

Oh, so Final Fantasy is the problem? Then why are you here? Vote with your dollars and go buy tetris are some other game where you will encounter exactly 0 sexualized characters.

I see no difference in cid's outfit compared to other's in the series. And I don't think that's a problem. Long live the beautiful Cidney and Yunalesca! Long live the sexy Kuja and Gladiolus! LONG LIVE FINAL FANTASY!

EDIT: Thanks for eating my post, EoFF.

Summary of what I posted: I have no personal problem with her outfit itself. The ACTUAL PROBLEM AS HAS BEEN STATED SEVERAL TIMES IS THE FACT THAT HER OUTFIT IS ONLY THERE TO OBJECTIFY. CLEAVAGE IS NOT THE PROBLEM, SO STOP TALKING ABOUT THAT TINY DETAIL.

And apparently you haven't been paying attention, because at the very least FFX-2 Yuna and Rikku have received plenty of criticism, including on this board.

And don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say Final Fantasy was the problem. I did say that that THE FACT THAT THIS IS A DROP IN THE POND IS A PROBLEM.

[Fox]

Let it go? No... we just don't get hung up on criticisms of good games - however valid those criticisms are - for the rest of our lives. It is possible to enjoy something whilst admitting it has problematic aspects. The world isn't about "total acceptance" or "complete condemnation", there are areas in between. I loved and look back fondly on Final Fantasy VII, while also accepting it was flawed in areas such as (but not limited to):
- Representation of women
- Representation of non-Caucasian people
- Representation of gay people

The criticisms that were valid then are still valid now. It just doesn't come up as much. I guess when we talk about FFVII we tend to be having a discussion of particular game mechanics or story aspects, not an analysis of media within our culture. When those conversations do happen these days (such as right now) there tend to be more contemporary examples to talk about, so why bring up something from 15 years ago?