Attachment 49189Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Freed furiously glaring at your hamburger, desperately screeching 'The meat is tainted!'
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Attachment 49189Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Freed furiously glaring at your hamburger, desperately screeching 'The meat is tainted!'
So, uh... I'm beginning to get worried you guys. The usual winter collapse isn't happening. We've got games against Chelsea and City so there's still time but we're normally utterly wank against Spurs, we never beat them. This is worrying.
I wish you were slightly more wank against Spurs, because right now you suck at being wank.
Why do you wish that? I mean, I know you have no love of Liverpool but surely everyone can enjoy Spurs being hammered 5-0 at home regardless of who is doing the hammering.
I'd prefer it being a very tricky 1-0 so you guys don't remain confident and end up struggling. Or even a draw! A draw would have been fantastic.
I don't have a massive grudge against Spurs on the level that some people do... just haven't really got any rivalry built with them over the ten or so years I've been following United.
He's now been sacked, even though Spurs got mauled by both City and Liverpool they're only 5 points off 4th place, won all their Europa League games, they're in the League Cup and about to start their FA Cup campaign so this season is hardly a disaster. Also they're one point better off this season than they were at this point last season, and that was with Gareth Bale.
Harsh sacking in my mind, as was Steve Clarke's on that note.
For me, any sacking in the first half of the year is really not cool, especially if the club is in the top half of the table. Imagine if Wenger got sacked for being in such a "low" position early in last season? Ridiculous.
EDIT: Wow, just saw the CL draw. United are fairly lucky, although any team at this stage of the competition has earned a spot and it could prove tricky for all I know. Haven't seen them play for a while. But as for Arsenal and City... damn, man, those games are going to be good.
Shame, I liked AVB. And indeed Steve Clarke.
Well, lovely. Asshole Barca and Sergio is crippled for a month at least. I hope Jovetic can stay uninjured and come in and do the business.
Also, Spurs, wtf, dire. Hope they end up with Steve Kean.
I agree, the Boas sacking was quite harsh. Not to mention now this will severely destabilise the entire squad. Second-rate 'caretaker' managers never really do well to be honest.
They're not even doing that bad. Sure, they did lose pretty shockingly against Liverpool (Grr...) but overall they're doing pretty okay. Sure, they are seventh, but their above United, which isn't exactly difficult, and they are only a few points from Everton.
Even if Boas had to go, at least wait a while. They now have to start of the second half of the season with no manager.
Hardly a good way to begin proceedings.
It would appear Gianfranco Zola has parted ways with Watford too interestingly, he's apparently one of the favourites to take over at Spurs.
Personally I'd love to see that, I think he did a good job at West Ham and was another in a long list of unfairly sacked managers. He'll get the players motivated too, I remember reading an article once where several West Ham players agreed that he was a very good tactician and a very hands-on type of manager - and in five-a-side training could still play better than half the squad. :P
Glenn Hoddle is a name that's being thrown about too, after his ill-fated England stint I can't help but feel he's a little out of touch with the modern game and the media will murder him the minute he says something out of line.
I would laugh if Glenn Hoddle came back into management! I think it'd be great fun to watch! You're right that the media would be all over him, but it can't be any worse than they were on AVB for not being Saint 'Arry of Redknapp.
The English people go a little hard on HR I think. Maybe its because Jamie Redknapp is working for Sky and it's a never ending barrage of bigging him up. Good manager that shouldn't have left Spurs IMO.
As for Glenn Hoddle - who's the last club he managed? Wasn't it years ago? Why is he even being touted? :p
With United this season, I said at the start and i'll say it again; I'd be delighted with a top 4 finish. Hard to pick out anyone who we could get over City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and even Everton at the minute. We have to find a run of form somewhere to have a chance.
Lastly, City to beat Barca in the CL and Arsenal to give Bayern a good test. All depends on how Arsenal are feeling going into the games.
Wolves 2006 if that was a genuine query!
Hoddle is also doing a really cool thing out in Spain called the Glenn Hoddle Academy, basically he takes released players from youth teams of English clubs and makes a proper team out of them in the lower leagues of Spanish football.
Glenn Hoddle Academy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
They've been a big screwed financially for the past few years though, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hoddle were to get out of there.
Pre-seasons in Football Manager wouldn't be pre-seasons if they didn't include the obligatory 8-0 drubbing of Glenn Hoddle Academy.
Haha, good to know it isn't just me who does that.
I quite like how even this premier league season has become. Granted, Man City look frightening when they are on but without Sergio, will they still have the same sting upfront?
I think if Liverpool can come out of the next three games with 5 points we'll be in great shape. Any more than that and I'd be ecstatic. I am really, really happy for Jordan Henderson especially of late. The kid was given up and left for dead but has been nothing short of a workhorse this year so I'm glad he's finally getting his kudos. I still don't like Suarez but damn he is insanely talented.
The Champions League clashes look mighty good too. It's a good time for football!
Take care all.
I was reading about Glenn Hoddle Academy the other day. While I thought the aim was broadly laudable (if a bit Cash Converters-y), I found the whole thing a bit surprising. It's not exactly the England job is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AssassinDX
Swansea-Everton tomorrow. Quite looking forward to a good open, game. So I'm going to predict an 8-0 drubbing by Swansea, given that I'm looking forward to it.
On the topic of Harry Redknapp - my favourite part of the AVB sacking?
Attachment 49361
Which is probably what I would've done had Harry Redknapp urged me to do anything.
I'M A FAHCKIN FAHTBALL MANAGER NOT A WEEWAH DEAWAH
Also Liverpool 1st, Man United 7th. Something is seriously wrong. This is not right, this is not right at all. I'm horrified. Slightly enjoying it but I know it's all going to go horrendously tits up. Most likely it'll happen the second I start to believe we can come in the top 4, let alone make a serious title push. I've had my hopes dashed too many times.
I like to think it's the absence of Liverpool fans using the phrase 'our year.' Someone'll use it after Christmas and you'll get relegated due to a 50 point deduction caused by Luis Suarez being outed as an alien lifeform and therefore an ineligible player. You read it here first.
Edit: Also joined the Fantasy Football League about eight years too late.
smurf you Heath what's this 8-0 nonsense we've never beaten you and you knew you'd win :colbert:
Interestingly, I was far more scared of that fixture now that Martinez is manager, as opposed to the Moyes era.
I tend to be suspicious of these 'never beaten Everton' records because I've fallen into this 'oh, that's three points nailed on' trap too many times. Sunderland had a similarly dire record against us until last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Also - award for ridiculous managerial appointment goes to Spurs.
But Tim Sherwood is a football man. He's a man. Who is a football.
I look forward to every single Chelsea match for the sole reason of my brother's Facebook rants about how rubbish the team are doing (He's the worlds biggest Chelsea fan). Never fails to make me laugh
Sorry - I retract my previous statement based upon new evidence being unearthed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Also he has the same name as Sherwood Forest which reminds me of Nottingham Forest and they won the European Cup twice so if you think about it, he's probably overqualified for this job.Quote:
Originally Posted by HeathSorry - I retract my previous statement based upon new evidence being unearthed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
We need a new Chelsea fan here! All the other "Big 7" are covered, just about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minami
It's a Big 7 now? No need to include E̶v̶e̶r̶t̶o̶n̶ Manchester United just for the sake of member inclusiveness.
Our claim to being the big anything died when we sold Yakubu.
Wrong United. I was of course referring to Newcastle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I'll hang around as the Chelsea fan then haha
Mikeface also supports Chelsea, but doesn't really follow football enough to bother posting, sadly.
Christmas celebrations continue! Stoke totally threw the game away and deserved the sending offs, just the ref took pity on them eventually. Personally a 3rd red card was possible the way Shawcross was trying to practice kung fu kicks constantly, there also could have easily been 3 more penalties.
Win's a win though and 5 goals makes the GD a world of good!!
That goal from Suarez was totally valid, I don't know what the assistant was looking at. Totally ruined my week.
Refs decisions didn't go our way but what was obvious too is we need to add squad depth. Man City has just an insane squad and even when hit with injuries they could field a very strong team. When we lose Stevie and Sturridge our overall team is lacking a bit and hopefully that is addressed in January. Still I was impressed that we stood toe to toe with Man City and think if we play a similar type of game against Chelsea may be able to nip all 3 points from them.
Take care all.
That offside decision on Sterling was absolutely shocking, I'm surprised you're taking it so well as even though Coutinho did eventually score you could and should have been 2-0 up at one point.
Some news for you chaps, Malky Mackay has inevitably been sacked by Cardiff. Goodness knows who'd take that job now as it would most likely ruin their career, I suppose it'll be the first guy who'd be happy to take £40k a week plus a fat redundancy payoff when he gets booted from the club.
I'm just waiting for the call. Vincent was well up for me moving the club to North Wales. I pointed out that the only English-based teams there are Colwyn Bay (big up) and Wrexham, so there was an untapped market for a North Walian league team. I figure the fans won't mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by AssassinDX
So, our league losses this season have been against Sunderland (H) and Man City (A). Apparently we're fine with everything in between '3 points in the bag' and 'a draw will be a miracle.' For the benefit of Manus mentioning Everton having a great record against Swansea and me playing it down: we had an almost as good one against Sunderland!
I have thoroughly enjoyed our current run of good form; but I am not optimistic that it will continue. January is coming, and I have to try and trust in Joe Kinnear....which is no easy feat, especially when he tries to sign players already at the club. :(
To be fair, Joe didn't do you wrong with the Remy signing. I've got him in my work fantasy football team and he makes me very happy :) On the other hand, Yohan Kebab.Bugger off, I'm bringing Prestatyn Town into the Conference North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath
Bloody hell, Everton, don't do that to me.
Liverpool won today. Just thought I should let you know as you were probably keeping an eye on the thrilling local derby victory of Rhyl FC over Prestatyn Town.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticTo be fair, Joe didn't do you wrong with the Remy signing. I've got him in my work fantasy football team and he makes me very happy :) On the other hand, Yohan Kebab.Bugger off, I'm bringing Prestatyn Town into the Conference North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath
I smurfing hate Rhyl. Prestatyn and Llandudno for life.
Be careful, you'll start making me homesick!
Sometimes I wish I could hear posts in their respective member's voice.
(SPOILER)Cefn Cribwr FC represent
Do you want to hear me say Welsh place names in my dirty English accent? It won't go well.
Also you will both disagree but having been to both North and South Wales twice each in the past year on business (admittedly I went to Cardiff both times in the south and not Swansea) I think the South is a lot grottier than the North and I'd rather live up North. That wasn't what I expected. Newport looked nice for about five minutes until the train went further into town.
Still, both are way better than the Midlands so :monster:
Didn't see the game yesterday, but saw the highlights, live text and the stats - we dominated well enough but got killed because our defence doesn't understand how to hold a line or form. Honestly, it was painful watching those highlights, every time we lost out our defence was all over the place. :( Rooney and Carrick being back but only two or three defenders? Why is that happening? How is that happening? Gah.
I don't disagree at all, the south is a hotbed of grot and poverty. Also what are you talking about Cardiff is a metropolitan utopia compared to Neath and Swansea and when I started working here I genuinely couldn't get over how much nicer the place was.
Confession timeI've never been further north than Welshpool (apart from Wrexham once or twice to play cricket against them (they have a very nice ground)
I have an answer for you but I'm afraid I'd sound like a broken record were I to post it. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
No, I don't believe that a sole manager can suddenly render a ten-point title-winning side into trash. He should, however, be fixing it. But the players themselves should know better, absolutely. They are capable players who are not playing at their best at all. Also, Vidic is sadly not the player he once was. Guy can't be up there for headers (and he misses them, too - 10 corners, 0 goals from them) because he's too slow to get back to take care of any counter attack.
See, you can write one or two players not playing as well as they should off as the players, but the whole team? Likewise, Vidic. Yeah, he's not the player he once was - well, there were some good CBs going in the Summer. Sakho and Lovren to name two.That's what you'd expect from the manager of Norwich, not Manchester United.Quote:
Originally Posted by David Moyes
The whole team isn't playing badly. :p But the defence didn't hold a line, and again, if you think they need a manager to tell them that, then what the smurf, man. They're only a multi-title winning defence.
Yes, the manager isn't doing brilliantly but the players are the ones giving him the problem. Following up SAF, you expect a "downgrade" no matter what. I do think Moyes is a good manager and I do think he's capable if we give him the time. But the players need to do him a favour and remember how to play.
So says this couch potato manager. :p
The North isn't much better - it's also very poor. I genuinely didn't realise by quite how much until I went to university and started living in England.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Confession timeI've only visited anywhere in Wales south of Aberystwyth once, and that was to go to Cardiff. I went to the Senedd which was very nice. And I only went to Aberystwyth about twice.
On topic: Yeah, that Manchester United, eh?
Well, yeah, I do actually. The manager is the one who sets the defensive system and drills it into them in training every week. If you noticed it, why didn't Moyes notice it at half-time and tell them to pull their fingers out?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Yeah, you do, but not that much of a downgrade. The likes of AVB, Mancini and Benitez would be a downgrade on Fergie but they'd still be an upgrade on Moyes. I'm not saying any of those should've been made United manager for obvious reasons but you get the point I'm making. Evidently Roberto Martinez is an upgrade on Moyes ffs!Quote:
Following up SAF, you expect a "downgrade" no matter what.
Why? Not being flippant. If you look at his first few years, up to the point where he got CL qualification, I'd agree. After that they've not made any progress, served up turgid football and flopped in the cups year after year. They stagnated, and Moyes hadn't got any fresh ideas. Along with Stoke and whoever Sam Allardyce was managing, Everton were the worst team in the league to watch. That kind of football can help you punch above your weight but it simply is not the style of play for a team challenging at the top. As I've said before, I really enjoy watching Everton now even though I'm not supposed to.Quote:
I do think Moyes is a good manager
Did you actually watch much of Everton the last couple of seasons? If you think we played turgid football which was awful to watch, then you obviously have higher expectations of Everton than me. Moyes played a lot of safety first, 4-5-1 but I'd characterise that as more the style in his early, rather than later, Everton career. Compare a team with Thomas Gravesen, Duncan Ferguson, and Steve Watson with one which had Arteta, Pienaar, and Landon Donovan. I know which I'd rather watch. Moyes' teams play decent football. He's not Arsene Wenger (or dare I say it, Roberto Martinez), but he's hardly Tony Pulus or Alan Curbishley.
To be fair, Martinez is living with Moyes' players just as Moyes is living with SAF's players. You point to the manager, I point to the players. You can't judge a manager on a single season because they aren't the manager's players. A manager is more than just the bedding season.
As for Everton, I think everyone knew he was working with a budget that none of the other big clubs were dealing with and was punching above Everton's weight. Now Martinez is doing the same, but if United had signed Martinez as the manager everyone would have said exactly the same things they've said about Moyes, with a few changes. Unproven at a big club, etc. Instead of "No trophies" it'd be "Only one trophy, never stayed at a club for longer than a couple of seasons so uncertain over long term capability."
I still think it's too early to say what's going on with United. He's not signed any of the players he wanted, our first choice defence is a complete unknown and the only certainty is aging considerably, as are Rio and Vidic. Scholes has gone. It's a trouble that needs to be solved, and a certain Ed Woodward smurfed that up big time, not Moyes. Unless the manager has taken on the chairman responsibilities now.
I'm not going to claim to be the Everton expert, no. I saw the odd game - I think I saw one v Chelsea and another v Spurs, but obviously what I did see were the derbys and his approach to them: 10 men behind the smurfing ball. Now, in the era when we were Champions League regulars fair enough, but it carried on even when we were midtable dross. And, well, I don't want to have to mention the Cup semi. He choked. Big time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath
Regardless of that though, you will know far more about Everton than I do so if you tell me it wasn't always like that then I'll take your word for it and retract my turgid claims.I sort of think he is. :shobon: Pardew, Allardyce, Moyes, Mark Hughes.Quote:
but he's hardly Tony Pulus or Alan Curbishley.
But is he? Everton's best players this season have been - and Heath can feel free to weigh in if he wishes! - Coleman, Lukaku, Barkley, Barry and Delof...I'm not even going to try to spell it. 3 of them are Martinez signings, and Barkley barely got a sniff under Moyes - he's had more games under Martinez than 3 years under Moyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
And yeah, I do point to the manager as opposed to the players. This is the sodding squad that just won the league! Minus an ancient Scholes, add Fellaini, Zaha and Januzaj and it's the exact same squad. If anything, it should be better. If it's just the players, you can't tell me that Ferguson would be languishing in 7th right now. I refuse to accept it.
I'm not saying it's just the players, as I said, it was always going to be a downgrade - but the things that they are struggling with are not the things I would expect to change between seasons. This isn't a case of poor selection, this is a case of our defence in the last match not understanding how to hold a line all of a sudden. Your manager controls how hard you attack and whatnot, sure - he also controls the selections and such things. But the players themselves were capable of smurfing up in previous seasons and in this match they were punished heavily for it because they did it to absurd degrees. I wouldn't have held SAF responsible for these smurfups either.
"Pardew, Allardyce, Moyes, Mark Hughes" - come off it, mate. None of them achieved what Moyes has, and if they ever got a sniff at it, they couldn't pull it off a second season. Hughes did okay at Blackburn for a while, but never as high as Moyes was.
What has Moyes actually achieved?Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
A better points per season average than the rest of that lot by some distance, I'd imagine, with a very light budget to work with. Probably the best points-per-pound manager in the league for managers that have been around for more than one season at a PL club...?
Fourteenth best, as it happens. You're a man who loves statistical analysis so you might enjoy that - sets him pretty much the equal of Mr. Allardyce. You might also enjoy this lovely analysis on the man himself and how after a good start he began to underperform based on the funds available. But hey that would go against the myth set out by his mates in the media.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Got any more achievements for him? ;) Perhaps ones more fitting of a club of Manchester United's stature like the ones Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti or Rafael Benitez (all available this Summer!) have.
I didn't say 'based on transfer expenditure', and the fact that it's the big club managers that dictate that list makes it a laughable example of which manager has done the best with limited finances. Even bloody Mancini is high up on it (although admittedly only four spots above Moyes, it should be noted), and we all know he spent more than a pretty penny!
Anyone who has played Football Manager knows that while a good transfer kitty is nice, there is a massive difference in the revenue a club has when you drop from the Uniteds, the Liverpools and the Arsenals (let alone Chelsea and City) down to the clubs that actually struggle to find a way to pay for a player's wages.
The biggest surprise on that list is indeed Sam Allardyce, though. Never thought he did that well. 14th of 162 PL managers? Huh. Who knew? I will also point out the conclusion of the same writer who put together that article...
In the comments on his article on Moyes, he even concedes that there are definite flaws in the system he is using, such as the Rooney situation. It is a very good system for analysing points per transfer fees paid for players, but does not take into account overall financial situations at the club, nor does it even consider how much net spend was used - only total outgoing expenses.Quote:
For Everton to truly compete with the Big Six they need a much bigger stadium and other sources of revenue to support the spending that is required. In a drive to balance their books and look for additional investors, Moyes and the club will have to go back to the days of a starting XI that costs around £45M and enjoy the financial benefits of weekly wages that are also at lower levels.
EDIT: You mention Jose Mourinho, Carlo Ancelotti and Rafael Benitez for a second time after previously admitting yourself that you understand why they didn't go for them? C'mon, dude. Available does not mean a better candidate.
EDIT: After analysing the list a little more, once you take away the managers who have had the luxury of big money at Liverpool, United, City, Chelsea and Arsenal (I would mention Spurs, but there are no Spurs managers above Moyes, ha)...
1. Frank Clark - Nottingham Forest, early 90's, non-comparable.
2. David O'Leary - Leeds United, noted for overspending in a way that is not financially stable.
3. David Moyes - Hi!
Well of course it's not a perfect analysis but at the same time it's still researched and calculated to a higher degree than you or I are willing to do, and as such is more accurate than our perceptions of any manager. Either way, yes, better clubs have better budgets and it's a world of difference between them and the teams further down the table... which is precisely why the man is out of his depth!
Also, I know why Benitez wasn't possible, but why not Mourinho, and definitely why not Ancelotti? Why not try and nick Jurgen Klopp off Dortmund? Heck, what Pellegrini did with Villarreal actually matches the pro-Moyes media brigade's vision of what Moyes did with Everton, why not him? Roberto Martinez...? Fabio Capello? Sven, even? While we're talking about England managers, even Steve McClaren has achieved more success than Moyes ever has... and he was assistant at United when they won the treble. ;)
Ancelotti is currently managing Real Madrid, and it may well be that managing Real Madrid is a more attractive job than following up Sir Alex Ferguson. I think he was booked some time ago for this job, too, much like Mourinho was booked some time ago for Chelsea and Moyes was booked some time ago for United.
Mourinho struggles to create attractive attacking football (look at how quickly he has undone the work turning Chelsea into an attractive attacking team last season... this season they have found themselves more and more lacking as time has gone on), prefers to take on short term "projects" and let's face it, he was always going to Chelsea, everyone knew it.
Capello is too old.
I would not have minded any of the above, but I never would have imagined them to happen. Same goes for Guardiola. Martinez was doing okay at the time United were picking their manager, sure, but he had done far, far less than Martinez had done. It should also be noted that while he did lead Wigan to the FA Cup, Wigan were also relegated days afterwards.
The end result, though, is that United wanted Moyes and it's fairly safe to say the people who picked out Moyes had a lot more brain for this than we do. They wanted someone who could provide long term stability at the club and someone that managed things from top to bottom, and that's the kind of person Moyes is. I don't know how true that is for other managers, but Moyes was considered the best fit for United, and given that he's always been touted as one of the candidates for years, I'd say he deserves his shot.
As if you actually think Sven and Steve are better candidates. Didn't you look at the link you just posted earlier? Where are they on that table? :p
Oh a cost-effective PL table for 11/12 Ask Norman: The cost-effective Premier League table - ESPN FC if you'd like to do it your way. I can't find one for last year, but yeah. Your boy languishing in 8th. Guess who the manager of the team #1 on that list manages now :DSven's higher than Moyes on it xD McClaren has had a lot of success abroad and that isn't recorded on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Oh, right, I forgot Sven was in charge of City during their big spending days. Pretty sure he was also considered a failure given how much they spent. :p
Single season stats are not a huge interest to me, let me know which managers end up top over the long term.
Oh, wait, you already posted that list and Moyes was the top candidate of those that weren't managing "big clubs", are still managing today and didn't lead their club into financial ruin. :shobon:
EDIT: Sunderland make more money than Newcastle? O_o
EDITRA: Ohhh, that's "Squad Cost" once more. Dude, that's not "doing it my way", that's exactly the same as the previous way you were doing it. xD
We're missing Cuchulainn to be the guy who stands just behind BoB and nods his head while occasionally mouthing "Ya wee :bou::bou::bou::bou:."
Cuch is usually a few steps in front of me saying exactly that, in capital letters. ;)
Cuch thinks Moyes is a barrel of wee ballbags and he'd be on my side!
Well the FA Cup was merely a distraction from all the other competitions we're going to lose in.
Now you can concentrate on staying up :smug:
EDIT okay who turned off HTML :colbert:
Yeah, that happened a while ago. We started with signatures around half a year ago and carried out a phased disabling of HTML throughout the forums, which was completed shortly before the server move.
Davey M saying United will not invest in January either. Are you insane? I appreciate it's not necessarily his decision so my question is aimed at whoever's it is. Whoever we want will be available in the Summer! Yeah great but if you're not in the top 4 they won't come to you. Liverpool had bids for Mkhitaryan, Willian and Costa all accepted and all three players turned us down. Daniele De Rossi came out and said he'd have killed himself if he had signed for United. It's only going to get worse if they don't make the CL. On the plus side for them though, both United and Moyes are famous for having strong post-January pushes.
Talking about Liverpool for a nice change, we also need to make a couple of good signings in January, similar to the boost that Sturridge and Coutinho gave us last year. The squad is absolutely paper thin and we've had a lot of injuries - Gerrard, Sturridge, Agger, Sakho, Enrique and Flanagan are currently out, and we've had plenty of other players who have been out on the sidelines too. Of the entire first team squad I think only Henderson, Mignolet and Lucas have been available for every match. When you're having to send on a 19 year old left back for his first team debut on the left wing when you're 2-1 down to Chelsea you know you're in trouble. Oh and someone needs to reassess whatever the hell it is we're doing to our players in training.
He didn't say they won't, to my knowledge, he said it's unlikely because it's tricky to bring in players during this transfer window, something which I thought everyone knew about. The players he's after may well be tied to their CL club and want to wait 'til the end of the season, and one can expect that the agents (let alone players) won't be keen to book into United while there is a lot of uncertainty over next year's Champions League. They'll want to know for sure they aren't leaving a CL club for a non-CL club.
But, for what it's worth, the new chairman is person I hold to blame for last transfer window's absolutely farce. Woodward is awful compared to Gill. Seriously. The guy might be good at the commerce and debt management end, but when it comes to player purchasing I have no faith in him whatsoever.
If you find out how to not get players injured so much, please let us know! xD
Definitely.
If we aren't gonna make any purchases in this transfer window then it would just be nice to have a squad that doesn't have half it's players in the treatment room.
Current Top 4 to be exactly the same come the end of the season. Just in a different order.
EDIT: In regards to Liverpool, they just seem to have a change of attitude this season. They've always been a team that create chances but it's been their consistency that lets them down. I reckon they're good enough to take third spot this year ahead of Arsenal.
the whole "I'm want to play CL football" line that players like to trot out irks me. "oooh I want to play in the CL so i'm going to wait for a call from barca or real or milan!! sorry liverpool/etc"
Okay then so if you're that desperate to play CL football why don't you offer your services to Shaktar? They're in quite a bit. How about Olympiakos! They've pretty much been ever present in the last 20 odd years. No? Thought not. Piss off. Knobheads.
also i have no real desire to talk about david moyes but I found this doing a search for something unrelated, and I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing with the sentiment or claiming that this paper is worth listening to, but, well...when the daily mail gives more respect to people called Abu Mohammed Bin Hamza coming over here and taking our benefits and council houses and plotting to kill us all jihad praise allah...I'm just saying, you've had to have sunk pretty low.
It's an interesting article, although I'd be quick to ask Martinez what he thought about Wigan getting relegated under his management if he doesn't think you need money in order to succeed. FA Cup or not, they stayed up in previous seasons.
The problem with Wigan is that whenever they had good players like Baines, Moses, Valencia and even the likes of Hugo Rodagella, other teams would nick 'em (Wigan not being very glamourous of course) and they'd have to rebuild every year, causing them to be awful up until the last few months of the season once they'd finally gelled.
In happier news, Leicester top of the Championship. It would be incredible to see the Foxes back in the Prem. All this talk of Man United signing Koke amuses me. I got him on loan for Leicester in FIFA 12 and he tore up the Championship along with the mighty Darius Vassell and David Nugent. ...oh god Leicester are the new Cardiff and it's all going to go tits up again isn't it.
Speaking of Koke, damn, Athletico are tearing up La Liga this season!
Yeah it's nice to see a change over there. Shame the same can't be said for the Bundesliga, with Bayern systematically dismantling Dortmund player-by-player.
The sad thing is that I fear Real & Barca (amongst others) may inevitably do the same to Athletico.
Told a big United supporting coworker that Moyes had been sacked and Fergie would take over for the rest of the season. I shall remember the excitement in his little face as he sprinted over to his PC to check BBC Football, quickly replaced by disgust when he was only greeted with a gigantic picture of Andy Carroll until the day I die. :jess: He was not best pleased that I built his hopes up like that... and he feels the same way about Andy Carroll as our very own Old Manus does.
Sunderland to be a new Birmingham?
It's definitely true that luck is against you whenever you're playing badly. That was never a penalty. Plus, when I had money on 1-1 I'm doubly annoyed. There is just a complete lack of belief in the squad. I don't see things getting much better in the near future either.
The one bright spot of the night was young Januzaj though. That boy is gonna be world class.
That really was some dive by Adam Johnston though.
Anyway, I am numbed to our troutness. No words here can hurt me. It's like it's 1989 and I'm 11 all over again watching this dross. I'm going to the same safe place now that I went to then when all the glory hunting Liverpool supporters at school gave me regular trout. There's beer in this safe place. beer and cushions.
Also.
Attachment 50100
Oh dear, Man United... What on earth is going wrong :O
I'm HOPING Sunderland do lose in the second leg though, a few of my *cough* Sunderland supporting fr- acquaintances, have been foaming at the mouth with the idea they're going to win silverware... and stay up. :p
Shame Newcastle are so poor in the cups and all. :( CARDIIIIIFF T_T
I think this is the first time in my life I can say I'm looking forward to playing United at Old Trafford this weekend. Win or lose, we already won.
It's Chelsea away the week after for the Red Devils...
I don't worry about Chelsea any more than I worry about any other club at the moment. We've lost to sides in the relegation scrap and beaten Arsenal while they were flying high. We've crashed out to Sunderland and Swansea in the national cups, but we've beaten Leverkusen for our best ever away win in our Champions League history. Chelsea? *shrug* Doesn't matter who it is right now, we could win or we could lose. xD
Still got the second leg to go yet! Though if our recent home form is anything to go by then you're probably already correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
If Rooney and Van Persie are still out when we played Chelsea then I fear there will be only one outcome.
Well, at least West Ham didn't lose 5-0 twice in a row. Though apparently Dzeko thought they had. Bad maths clearly endemic at City.
I think Jamie Redknapps article said it best that we need an overhaul of the team. We have no proper midfield players or a solid defense anymore. Carrick while good moves like a 40 year old and takes far to much time to make up his mind, plus has tendencies to go missing in games. Fletch is great but just back. The rest are just squad players. The only player who is good enough at the moment is Adnan. Our defense is trout also. It's almost comical at times. Evans isn't good enough. I'd take even someone like Jagielka and expect him to be solid.
The replacements? We need two central midfielders, two CB's (with Vidic going at the end of the season), and a winger. Get out the checkbook Moyes and don't kneejerk into signing the likes of Fellani just because you think the fans expect it. The likes of Oscar, Arteta, Mata didn't cost a bomb - they were from good scouting.
Still believe Moyes can turn it around but there has been many times this season where I think we have no shape and its just route 1 all the time by giving it to Valencia. Our full backs dont even overlap half as much as they used too. Rafael doesn't at all. We need people brought in in January if we expect to get into top 4.
Also, when it comes to signings, don't be afraid to pay "ridiculous" money if you want a ridiculously good player. If (and this is a massive if, I personally don't think it was true) Fabregas was actually available, we should have simply paid whatever was being demanded and be done with it.
Woodward is just the pits when it comes to CEO-ing with player transfers.
Exactly. Never really understood that one. We pay just shy of 30M on Fellani when another 20 would probably have gotten the Fabregas deal done. No brainer.
Oscar cost £20m and Mata £23m. That's a fair old whack! Though I guess you couldn't get a Fellaini or a Carroll for it...
You could just about get a Henderson though.
One of Ferguson's biggest weaknesses was the transfer market. We bought some smurfing dross.
Bebe, Mame Biram Diouf, Eric Djemba-Djemba, Kleberson, Manucho, Anderson, Zoran Tosic, Owen Hargreaves, Fangzou Dong, Liam smurfing Miller, Bellion.
There's more I'm sure. I won't include flops. No one can really predict those so you can't really blame anyone but smurfing hell. That list above. Shoot em all.
You could devote a whole chapter to goalkeepers.
I'd say Obertan was a bigger fail than Anderson. Still, as much as you can point to Fergie over those guys, you can also point to his successes. Over time, some will work and some won't... I don't think any manager is perfect in that area. But I can't think of many times he would have said "Fabregas isn't worth £50m, but Fellaini is worth £28m."
His flops outnumber his successes mate. I'll got back 10 years to make a point. When I say 'trout' I don't mean theyre trout players, I mean they were trout for us.
David Bellion Sunderland £2,000,000 July 2003 trout
Eric Djemba-Djemba Nantes £3,500,000 July 2003 trout
Tim Howard New Jersey Metrostars £1,200,000 July 2003 trout
Cristiano Ronaldo Sporting Club £12,240,000 August 2003
Kleberson Atletico PR £5,930,000 August 2003 trout
Giuseppe Rossi Parma Free July 2004 trout
Liam Miller Celtic Free January 2004 trout
Louis Saha Fulham £12,825,000 January 2004
Alan Smith Leeds United £7,050,000 May 2004 trout
Gabriel Heinze Paris Saint-Germain £6,900,000 June 2004
Gerard Pique Barcelona £5,000,000 May 2004 trout
Fangzou Dong Dalian Shide £3,500,000 January 2004 trout
Wayne Rooney Everton £25,600,000 August 2004
Ji-Sung Park PSV Eindhoven £4,000,000 July 2005
Edwin van der Sar Fulham £2,000,000 July 2005
Ben Foster Stoke City £1,000,000 July 2005 trout
Nemanja Vidic Spartak Moscow £7,200,000 January 2006
Patrice Evra AS Monaco £5,500,000 January 2006
Michael Carrick Tottenham Hotspur £18,600,000 July 2006
Henrik Larsson Helsingborgs Loan January 2007 trout
Owen Hargreaves Bayern Munich £17,000,000 July 2007 trout
Tomasz Kuszczak West Bromwich Albion £4,000,000 July 2007 trout
Nani Sporting Club £17,300,000 July 2007 SEMI-trout
Anderson FC Porto £20,400,000 July 2007 trout
Carlos Tévez Corinthians Loan August 2007
Federico Macheda Lazio Free September 2007 trout
Manucho Petro Atlético Unknown August 2008 trout
Rodrigo Possebon Internacional Unknown August 2008 trout
Rafael da Silva Fluminense £2,600,000 August 2008
Fabio da Silva Fluminense £2,600,000 August 2008 trout
Dimitar Berbatov Tottenham Hotspur £30,750,000 September 2008 SEMI-trout
Zoran Tosic Partizan FK £7,000,000 January 2009 trout
Ritchie De Laet Stoke City Unknown January 2009 trout
Antonio Valencia Wigan Athletic £16,000,000 June 2009
Michael Owen Newcastle United Free July 2009 trout
Gabriel Obertan Bordeaux £3,000,000 July 2009 trout
Mame Biram Diouf Molde FK £2,000,000 July 2009 trout
Chris Smalling Fulham £10,000,000 January 2010
Javier Hernández Deportivo Guadalajara £6,000,000 July 2010
Bebe Guimaraes £7,400,000 August 2010 trout
Anders Lindegaard Aalesunds FK £3,500,000 November 2010 trout
Phil Jones Blackburn Rovers £17,000,000 June 2011
Ashley Young Aston Villa £16,000,000 June 2011 trout
David de Gea Atletico Madrid £18,000,000 June 2011
Shinji Kagawa Borussia Dortmund £12,000,000 June 2012 SEMI-trout
Nick Powell Crewe Alexandra £4,000,000 June 2012 trout
Robin van Persie Arsenal £24,000,000 August 2012
Alexander Buttner Vitesse £3,900,000 August 2012 trout
Ángelo Henríquez Universidad de Chile £4,000,000 August 2012 If seen please do not approach but contact Old Trafford immediately)
Wilfried Zaha Crystal Palace £15,000,000 January 2013 MISSING
fixedQuote:
Phil Jones Blackburn Rovers £17,000,000 June 2011 trout
Gerard Pique was not trout for us. I remember he had one bad game - and I think he played at right back - but beyond that he was brilliant. SAF didn't want to sell but Pique had made up his mind already. I would take him over any of our current central defenders.
Berbatov was not trout, although he was frustrating. But then, so was Ronaldo a lot of the time.
Lindegaard hasn't been trout. Probably the best backup keeper we've had that I can remember, as much as I did love Scrabble (who also had potential but was never going to get a run while we had VDS).
Disagree about Kagawa being even semi-trout.
Powell, in the very few games he has played for us, has been a worthy squad player at worst and a remnant of the old Gerrard at best. Can score great goals and is competent considering his age. I can see him being a third/fourth choice midfielder for us in the future (keep in mind we generally have six or seven at our club). If he does well, maybe even better.
Buttner hasn't been trout. I'm told he was one of our better players in recent games and in the early games I saw him play in, he was great.
Jones definitely hasn't been trout for us this season, Manus.
BoB you are such an optimist about your team. You remind me of a Liverpool fan, God Bless You. I've actually heard a couple of United fans say they'll come back and win the league next season.... could next year be Their Year? ;)
On Kagawa, here's a quote that's been doing the rounds on the internet from Alex Ferguson: "In moments he could be sublime. Talent-wise there was absolutely nothing wrong with him. He had two fine feet, he could run, his control was magnificent, his vision was brilliant - he just couldn't fit into the team."
He's talking about Juan Sebastian Veron, but, yeah.
Mind you it's obvious that Park, Kagawa and especially Dong were bought to shift shirts in Asia. I'm not saying they were bad footballers - well, the last one certainly was! - but it was clearly a huge element of why they were signed. Dong cost £3.5m... how much Manchester United merchandise was shifted in China because of him? More than £3.5m? Probably. The Liverpool PR machine is doing a large number on some 14 year old Indian kid we have, setting up an official LFC India Twitter and everything. Gotta play the game - and I don't mean football.
Incidentally I saw ITV's the Bundesliga show the other day and I spied Mame Biriam Diouf knocking in a few goals. I thought he seemed quite handy :shobon:
Bob do you actually watch the games?
Not every single one, but most, yes! For those I don't get to see, I watch highlights and I read up on what people and the media thought of their games.
To put Kagawa - a Bundesliga player of the year - and say "he was bought to sell shirts" is insulting and borderline racist. I mean, you may as well say that Ronaldo by Real Madrid was bought to sell shirts, considering that's exactly how they pay his wages (when they bought him, they declared it doesn't matter that he cost £80m because they would make that back in shirt sales alone).
I'd say Park proved over many years that he proved himself just as much.
Dong I can't argue against. xD
And yeah, Diouf has been touted as a potential target for Newcastle or Spurs, I think... I forget.
EDIT: Rose-tinted glasses? Maybe, but I'm certainly not going around saying we can win the league. No chance. Next year? God knows. I'm not expecting it. Obviously every fan hopes, though. I'm naturally optimistic, though, not just about football. I just try to see the best in situations. As for the players, I stand by it all. :p
I've already stated that Kagawa (an others such as Forlan and Veron) are good players, they've just been trout for us.
I think it's harsh to say he's been trout for us. He's barely had a run because of the Rooney & RVP obsession, but in the games he has played he's had no more off days than the likes of RVP as far as I'm concerned. RVP has days where he basically does nothing, so does Kagawa. RVP has games where he does amazingly, so does Kagawa. RVP has good runs, but Kagawa is never allowed to have a good run because even when he scored three (or was it four?) goals he was dropped for the next game if I recall correctly.
I never said that was the only reason why they bought Kagawa and I never said he was a bad footballer, get off your high horse. :greenie: Race doesn't come into it. However, if you think him being from the lucrative Far East market is not a factor in why they chose him over other players, especially given United's track history of buying players located in that key market, then you don't understand how football works as a business. :p
And yes, that is exactly why Ronaldo was bought by Real Madrid. It's precisely why they've bought Beckham, Owen and Gareth Bale - they know the media hype that comes with buying a British player. United and Real are two clubs that are all about the marketing - and it works. I wish Liverpool's marketing machine was as slick as United's in the early 90's as maybe the club wouldn't have had 20 years of nearlys and almosts.
So basically what you're getting at is that Kagawa and Park were bought for their shirt sales no more than pretty much any other high profile player? Why not mention the non-Asian players when you bring that stuff up? That's why I feel it was a borderline racist (not outright racist, otherwise I wouldn't have said "borderline", I know you aren't racist) comment. You seemed to corner it to an Asian thing instead of mentioning the many other high profile players that are bought every day by all kinds of clubs as if it were an unusual thing.
I don't think it was the reason Kagawa was bought over other players, though. Many people see the Bundesliga as the best league in terms of "how it should be" these days, and to buy the best player in one of the best three leagues in the world is not "oh, it's just because he sells shirts more than the others." I'd like to know which others were available for an equal price and wage while maintaining the overall football quality that Kagawa had. He was the best player in the Bundesliga and we got him for a bargain for someone of that stature. I can't think of anyone else that, at that point, would have offered as much bang for our buck outside of players being bought on a free (hi, RVP).
Well to clarify, certain teams seem to have certain markets they are targeting. United love Asia, Real Madrid's president loves the British media (and it, Liverpool are randomly hugely popular in Norway and Denmark, hence why we seem to have Norwegians and Danes in the squad - haven't had a Norwegian in a few years actually, need to rectify it!
Kagawa did indeed tear up the Bundesliga but then I think if he was German, United might not have gone in for him. They still might've, we'll never know, but if you think it wasn't factored into their decision to buy this player who, however good he is, clearly does not fit into the United style of play, you're naive. It's not racism on my part, it's racism on United's :p I'm just observing and noting their behaviour.
Still, you may be able to justify him and maybe even Park (though he should've been shifted a couple of years before he was. Though I guess I could say that for half the United midfield. How the hell is Anderson still a United player) as players but you can't Dong.
This is possibly true, but only because getting a German player out of the German league is about as tricky as getting an English player out of the English league. Home grown rules and all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
I don't know if that's true, I think he does fit into United's style of play quite easily. The fact that he's scored a hattrick in his first season, scored more goals than any other midfielder last season despite having a low number of starts compared to the others, is constantly begged to get more starts from the fans and also was one of the starring players in our best performances this season says that he is very much a United player. Kagawa's problem is that him doing well requires he and Rooney playing and interchanging and it is very rare that SAF played them in tangent because of RVP's fantastic season, and as for Moyes, well... I don't know! He won't play the player who was our best person on the pitch during our best performance on the pitch under Moyes. This is a criticism I do hold against Moyes.Quote:
They still might've, we'll never know, but if you think it wasn't factored into their decision to buy this player who, however good he is, clearly does not fit into the United style of play, you're naive. It's not racism on my part, it's racism on United's :p I'm just observing and noting their behaviour.
I don't think anyone in the world would say Dong was anything but a shirtseller. xD I do wonder if he even managed to sell many shirts.Quote:
Still, you may be able to justify him and maybe even Park (though he should've been shifted a couple of years before he was. Though I guess I could say that for half the United midfield. How the hell is Anderson still a United player) as players but you can't Dong.
I haven't been rushing out to buy a shirt with a Dong on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
If Suarez can score on a wet January day away to Stoke he is officially the best player in the world. On current form he's already destroying Messi and Ronaldo's goals-per-game this season (this is not a troll, he genuinely is hammering them) but that's not important. What is important is scoring away against Stoke and I don't know if he can do it. We're trout against Stoke.
As an Evertonian, it naturally pains me to say it - but Suarez is probably the best player in the league this season. I don't think Liverpool are a one-man team, but I'd be interested to see where they'd be without him.
Stoke away isn't an easy game. We literally scraped a point there with a penalty in the last minute.
We've got Norwich at home, which is always one of those games which looks superficially easy but probably won't be. They ruined my birthday last year by beating us 2-1 in a game I assumed we'd win reasonably comfortably.
I stand by what I said in that Januzaj is world class. When he hits puberty then the premier league better watch out.
To the game, we were poor first half. Better second half and an early goal always helps. Not holding out much for a result at Stamford Bridge next weekend but you never know.
He is nowhere near as good as those two. Behave yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Yeah, I wouldn't put Suarez even close to Messi or Ronaldo, but when it comes to the league as it is right now, I don't think there's much "probably" about it, I'd say he's easily been playing better than anyone in the league this season so far.
If he was a Man United player you'd proclaim him as better than Maradona.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuchulainnHe is nowhere near as good as those two. Behave yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
There's been plenty of United players though our many many championship wins and I've said that about none of them bar the only one previously mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticIf he was a Man United player you'd proclaim him as better than Maradona.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuchulainnHe is nowhere near as good as those two. Behave yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Suarez is a talent. Best in the premier league but he's nowhere near Ronaldo and Messi. Suarez disappears in most big games. I seen a stat about his goals this season alone. I think there's only against TWO teams in the top half of the table (Everton & Tottenham) which hints that there's a bit of a flat track bully about him.
Until he shows up in big games regularly he'll always be just below the best in the world. He's a phenomenal talent regardless, however. Complete rat faced, racist :bou::bou::bou::bou: of a ball bag, but a talent nonetheless.
Re Kagawa. I watched him today and he was absolute dog. I'm not even bitter either. I've never paid much attention to him until people on twitter started baying for Moyes to start playing him, and now I have no idea why.
he's a top, top player who excelled in Germany at the highest level. It's just not working out for him with us for reasons unknown. It happens. Some great players don't work out at some clubs.
Luis hands down the player of the season so far and any discussion to the contrary is wrong. Got nothing else to add. Luis is a badman.
in other news, big andy returns with a jihad beard, west ham win, kiss his lips James Hornby :colbert:
If we're going to use the "this season" caveat, then in goals-per-game he's outscored Ronaldo and Messi by some way. Let's talk about the last 18 months though...Quote:
Originally Posted by CuchulainnThere's been plenty of United players though our many many championship wins and I've said that about none of them bar the only one previously mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticIf he was a Man United player you'd proclaim him as better than Maradona.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuchulainnHe is nowhere near as good as those two. Behave yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Suarez is a talent. Best in the premier league but he's nowhere near Ronaldo and Messi. Suarez disappears in most big games. I seen a stat about his goals this season alone. I think there's only against TWO teams in the top half of the table (Everton & Tottenham) which hints that there's a bit of a flat track bully about him.
Until he shows up in big games regularly he'll always be just below the best in the world. He's a phenomenal talent regardless, however. Complete rat faced, racist :bou::bou::bou::bou: of a ball bag, but a talent nonetheless.
Suarez goal vs Manchester City - YouTube
Liverpool VS Chelsea Suarez Goal - YouTube
Suarez goal v arsenal 30/1/13 - YouTube
In the past couple of seasons he's scored against 5 of the top 6 teams in the country. He plays for the 6th. :monster:
I said he's a great player mate. He's not better than Ronaldo and Messi. Simple. He never will be. He falls into the group just below that with Ribery, Ibra etc.
Right now it's between him and Hazard for player of the season. We'll see how the second half pans out.
Ooh, good call. I think Zlatan is probably better than Suarez, I do love Zlatan. Wish he played in the Premier League. Anyway I'm just saying this stuff because we're trout against Stoke and I need some football related enjoyment in my life this weekend okay :(
The beard is surely in place as a means of using the extra counterweight to stop him falling over.Quote:
Originally Posted by DK
Well, you need luck to win the league. City definitely got that today.
...and Liverpool just now.
I don't think it's lucky to have Crouch and Adam score against you :argh:
True... it's been a cracking game so far though! Bring on the second half.
Like I said, we suck trout against Stoke. :monster:
Raheem Stirling's quite the diver. 2 games today decided by trout refereeing.
If fact refereeing all season's been trout
What a smurfing game. Jesus christ. On edge the entire time. A really good result - shame about the defence being pap.Well, I guess as a United fan you'd know all about diving. Man Utd's Januzaj is No 2 in list of Premier League's all-time divers | Mail Online :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulainn
I'm quite looking forward to seeing that game on Match of the Day 2 this evening! Fair play to Stoke for giving it such a good go though.
That's some Whataboutery there mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoticWhat a smurfing game. Jesus christ. On edge the entire time. A really good result - shame about the defence being pap.Well, I guess as a United fan you'd know all about diving. Man Utd's Januzaj is No 2 in list of Premier League's all-time divers | Mail Online :greenie:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulainn
Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? :p
In all honesty though, yeah, dive. Very soft penalty. Still, I don't feel bad. Stoke are the smurfing worst team and deserve to be smurfed over. I know we had a cast iron penalty against Stoke not given last season, and Huth stamped on Suarez's chest and got away with it in the same game. troutty decisions will forever plague football. You win some, you lose some. We owed Stoke that. We owe Chelsea a few too. I think Everton are owed a few against us though, sorry Heath :shobon:
Tiote's amazing disallowed goal. :mad2:
I agree - though in fairness we've both had some dodgy decisions in derby matches; look at last season's Goodison derby when you had a legitimate goal disallowed. I think (what a surprise!) that Everton have been the unluckier though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Clattenburg didn't referee another Everton game after the 2007 derby for 5 years, and didn't referee a game at Goodison until a few weeks back, against Southampton, I think. Still got booed all game though. :D
Edit:Having just watched MotD2 - I agree with the commentator. The only way it could be classed as interference by the other Newcastle player was if Hart thought Tiote's shot was going to hit him. That's really harsh, and I'd say ducking out of the way of the shot is not interfering, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess
Watching motd. Tiote decision was awful and I was expecting to come into this with sympathy for them but smurf that, Newcastle deserved it. They then spent the entire game kicking the City team and the ref let them do what they want out of guilt. The foul on Nasri was one of the worst I've ever seen. When shirt tugs and two kicks doesn't bring him down Yanga-Mbiwa deliberately smurfing scissors him and it looks like Nasri has been severely injured. Disgusting.
Also Alan Pardew and his cockney screaming at the ref had tears rolling down my face.
Oh absolutely. It's up there with Drogba's post-CL semi final outburst a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
The insanity of the ref decisions of that game was beyond a joke D: the disallowed goal decision let the pressure build and build. Surprised None of our players got sent off after crippling what, 3 of their players?
Either way to come out with just a 2-0 defeat to a team worth about 100x that of our own isn't too bad I suppose.
Pardew's outbursts were... something xD he called Pellegrini an old c- (OOPS)
Glad Ronaldo beat Messi for the Ballon D'or - he deserves it more. Deserved it last year too. Still, Xavi and Iniesta in the world team of the year? Christ, it's not 2009 anymore. Did no-one watch the ungodly spanking Bayern delivered? Schweinsteiger, Toure and Kevin Nolan are all more deserving.
I agree with you, although Kevin Nolan might be taking it a bit far. It's Barca brown-nosing for the sake of it really, but at least Ronaldo got the recognition he deserves this season. In years to come when I look back on the Messi vs Ronaldo debate I'll most likely side with Messi overall, but this year Ronaldo has murdered him in almost every statistic.
Ramos, too. I'd say it's more "Real Madrid & Barcelona" brown nosing than anything. Those two clubs seem to have some man in FIFA ensuring they are safe to pretty much everything. I'll respect them a lot more when they aren't effectively the Celtic & Rangers of Scotland. Well. Before Rangers crashed. You know what I mean. :p
I will say however that it just makes Athletico's achievements all the more impressive.
Athletico haven't achieved anything yet. :p Hey BoB, who was the last non-Barca/Real team to win the Spanish league? And who was their manager? He must've been pretty good.
Yeah, I know! Still someone who completely lost it in front of a worldwide audience not once but twice, though.
EDIT: Perhaps "lost it" is a tad extreme. He "had Keegan moments"?
EDITRA: Also, say what you like about Athletico, but their W/D/L ratio is insanely good at the moment.
I have no idea but somebody told me that that team of the year thing is voted for by players, and it happens that neither the Germans nor the Brits care that much about it. As much as I hate Suarez, it's horsetrout he isn't in the team though. trout, I know it's Ronaldo and Messi, but smurf it, play with four forwards. With those up front you don't need a defence.
I don't know how the team is voted for, but the Balon d'Or is a mixture of national team captains, coaches, and media:Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
The full votes are available online. (:hattip: Grauniad)
Steven Gerrard, as England's captain, gave Suarez his third choice, while the other two English voters were Henry Winter for the media, and Roy Hodgson. Only two PL players between their nine votes - Suarez by Gerrard, and Hodgson picked Van Persie as his third choice.
As far as I can tell, each country is weighted equally.
Also: Gareth Bale in 'coming top in two out of three sets of Welsh votes' shocker.
Essentially, all the PL clubs need to do in order to really get things moving towards a PL member being in the running is to start bringing in a lot of international captains to the PL, meaning those that favour players in their own club/league will vote for PL players.
So, let's bring them all in, starting with Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo. Actually, might just leave it at that.
I agree with Nolan but you can go tae smurf with Schweinsteiger and ToureQuote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
On a random note, Final Fantasy Football - Uncyclopedia, the content-free encyclopedia gave me quite the chuckle.
"WAGs stands for White-mages And Girlfriends"
"For instance, many of the best players are unaffordable early on, and traditionally every team must include at least one Cid."
"Back Row (DF) - The back row are your defenders, and thus, you may want to give them your best armour. The most overlooked of football players, they spend much of the game hanging around at the back, relaxing. Their only real skill is steal, which allows them to steal the ball, though at later levels they can also use mug, a technique that is not supported by the Football Association."
The team of the year is a joke and has been for the past few seasons. It's just basicly players voting for their team-mates, yet the English players don't even seem to take it seriously. Delighted Ronny won though he deserved it.
Lets pick our own teams of the year:
GK: Neuer
DF: Alaba, Kompany, Koscielny, Lahm
MD: Messi, Bale, Ozil, Ronaldo
FD: Suarez, Van Persie
That was just off-hand. :p
GK: De Gea
DF: Evra, Vidic, Smalling, Raphael
MD: Young, Carrick, Cleverley, Valencia
FD: Rooney, Van Persie
Glad to see Newcastle play and not have a bad decision off the ref deny them a potential game changing goal.
That last minute free kick from Cabaye was glorious and more importantly I must ask what's wrong with Andy Carroll :( what have West Ham done to him?
Oh and what's with the name change? XD
It seems that clearly and obviously diving when being challenged by a keeper is now not only perfectly acceptable, but even the right thing to do according to football commentators.
Liverpool weren't at their best yesterday but also, that's the best I've seen Villa play all season. A draw was probably the right result even though that was never a penalty.
Today feels weird already. It's the first time for as long as I can remember watching Utd that I give us no hope of coming away with any points. The best we can hope for is to try and stifle them, maybe catch them on the counter with Valencia, Wellbeck and Januzaj. Honestly though, we 're not solid enough at the back to stop them from scoring.
I'm just going to put on my mid-80s white away kit again. Yea it's a boys size but smurf he consequences I'm already back there mentally.
Every season hoping for a decent cup run...Moyes. What a smurfing clueless wanker.
Oh, that cruel moment when you think you've won it with an injury time winner and the goal is (rightfully) ruled offside. :(
Finally! Something more exciting in this transfer window than Grant bloody Holt! £35m for Mata? Iiiiiiinteresting. I did say United needed to splurge in this transfer window! However, I wonder if he may be Kagawa 2.0. Great player but I can't help but wonder where he'd play in United's system and think they'd be better off buying a more central midfielder in the mold of Yaya Toure so that they never have to play Tom Cleverley again! Either way, I'm glad SOMETHING of note is happening.
I think Mata is more versatile than Kagawa, and certainly more acclimatised to the English game. Twice player of the season at Chelsea is nothing to turn your nose up at, and we do need a quality winger and a consistently creative midfielder which is something he can cover both of. Would still like to see an amazing central midfielder but I actually agree with Moyes that if they simply aren't available right now then we shouldn't rush anything through.
My only concern with Mata is that it seems he is frustrated at a lack of first team opportunities and I always question when we buy someone because they can't get a game elsewhere. It becomes a question of whether we are looking for not the top players but the next level down. Still, I think Mata being 25 years old with two player of the seasons in the bag for Chelsea means that he's not "lost it" just yet.
I still would like to see some other signings than Mata, but I can accept that sometimes these things just aren't that simple, particularly during the January transfer window and particularly when many are cup tied in UEFA and many are simply wanting to wait and see where United end up after 38 games.
I can see Chelsea simply shrugging and saying "no" throughout this transfer window at the very least, though.
EDIT: In other news, 6-8 weeks out for Lucas is a massive blow for Liverpool considering how they struggled without him in the recent Villa game, he really turned them around. In other other news, Mancini gives a massive gift to headline writers around the world as he writes everything but "on Rock and Roll" out for them.
This could be Chelsea's Fabregas/Nasri. Why sell one of your best players to a rival who only needs one or two big players to usurp you? I don't think Chelsea need the money.
That said, unlike Arsenal with Fabregas, Chelsea seem to be doing just fine with him picking out splinters. I'm also interested to see how Moyes would fit him into his system. If AVB, Benitez and Mourinho couldn't figure out what to do with him, I don't hold out much hope for David Moyes.
AVB/Benitez/Mourinho couldn't work out what to do with him? I dunno. I think Mourinho knows what to do with him but prefers Hazard and Oscar in those positions so that's that. Mata managed to get 20 goals and 35 assists last season in 60 games and he's got 3 goals in 10 games for Spain last year, too. I wouldn't say this is a player that managers can't figure out what to do with, because whatever they did with him it sure seemed to work last season/year.
Hmmm... I honestly didn't expect any kind of business for Utd this window. We would definitely be paying over the odds. The rejection from Chelsea will be reasonably swift, I reckon. There's no way they'd let him go for less than £40M. Still, I think our situation is desperate enough that we should pay it though.
Like BoB says, he's proven in the Premier League. He's not particularly defensive minded which isn't the best. Unless Fletch returns to full fitness, we're also gonna need a holding midfielder as well. Anything to protect our back four which is the worst I've seen for Utd in a number of years. Mata will help the cause but there's too many other areas requiring improvement for it to have a massive effect.
I'm not convinced Chelsea will sell at all.
I genuinely don't think £35m is over the odds in today's market, unless you're basically saying the obvious thing that every single player out there is bought over the odds when purchased by a big enough club.
I agree that Chelsea will likely say no, but then, there are already rumours about that Mata is heading up for a medical. God knows. I'd be delighted if we do get him, though, regardless of him not being a holding midfielder. When you need 3-4 great players, the first one is merely one less player we need.
I would say he only can't get a game because he doesn't suit Mourinho's style of play. What do Hazard, Willian and Oscar have in abundance? Pace and power. Mata's more of a silky gentle kind of player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
Still, this also goes against your desire for a winger. Mata aint a winger in the United sense - bombing up and down the wings, spamming crosses like it's going out of style. He's a "winger" in the Benitez sense in that he's an AMF who cuts inside. I've never seen United utilise a player like that except for when they stick Kagawa out there. United would have to totally revamp their playing style if putting him on the wing is the goal. Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, mind you, but it's not a change that will happen overnight. On that subject, I also don't get the comments about Rafa not knowing what to do with him because he was Chelsea's best player under Rafa and spoke out about he brought out the best in him. YES I'M A RAFA FANBOY I PAY ATTENTION TO THESE THINGS OK :shobon:One theory doing the rounds is Financial Fair Play. If you've got £35m-£40m coming in you can immediately go and spunk it on Falcao or whatever shiny bauble is in this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
I was also going to disagree about Benitez not getting the best out of Mata. Then I realised that sounded like praise for Benitez.
I think I need a lie down and a cup of tea :(
:tumbleweed:
Ugh.
When I started supporting United Liverpool fans were the glory hunters.
ANYWAY
Breaking News: Juan Mata has been arrested after attempting a U-turn on the M6
Attachment 50961
Well then... What a penalty shootout that was...
In the words of Patches O'Houlihan... it was like watching a bunch of retards trying to smurf a doorknob.
Negative notes: Last night, from the 60th minute onwards, was probably the worst I have seen a proper first team play at United in a decade or so of watching them. It was that bad. It wasn't through lack of hard work by some players, but sadly - Smalling excepted - those players were not having a good night (hi, Hernandez) despite their efforts and their passes and control were horrid. They body language displayed by our team was at times pretty bad, too. There was notably a distinct lack of leadership in the side - the only player I saw consistently ordering other players around was Jonny Evans. I have no idea how good he is as a leader, but we need more players capable of doing that. Januzaj, Hernandez, Kagawa, Welbeck, Buttner, Rafael, Smalling... none of these guys are likely to be motivating the others or chastising them when they cock up, they're just not those kind of players. Fletcher and Carrick, not sure. De Gea has his moments but he's not that strong just yet. It was one of those rare occasions when I was really hoping Giggs would get brought on.
Neutral notes: The first 50-60 minutes weren't amazing but there were strong attacks and we weren't at our worst, either. I will point out that we were most definitely at our best when Kagawa was in the hole. It wasn't Rooney-level quality he provided, but he provided the best final ball of any of our players. Januzaj had the best moments of our attackers by some distance when you consider "quality AND quantity", but he struggled massively when put into the hole at the time when Kagawa was put on the wing, and he made some really poor mistakes to balance out the quality. Kagawa was taken off on the 60th minute, and suddenly we would get to just outside their box and kind of pass it sideways a lot, nobody was making a run and nobody was making a great pass. It was painful to watch.
Positive notes: We still won the match. If it were a Premier League game we'd have won 1-0, if it were a Champions League tie we'd have gone through before extra time kicked in, and the second they hit a goal in we didn't give up and we snatched one back immediately. Also, this Mata stuff is looking like it will actually happen! Juan Mata (get it?) sorted, just about five other Matas to take care of after this.
Was a rough game to watch, really hard to take watching us play that badly. I tried to focus on Mata's probable signing and on NZ's victory over India in the cricket, of which highlights were playing just before the United match on Sky. Yay!
EDIT: Dammit, not again. I'm closing that other thread, I keep getting confused. *moves a couple of posts over*
:shobon:Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I think this could have a big impact on United. The players who missed penalties - and De Gea, who made that clanger to let Sunderland back in - are all relatively young and yet also some of, in my opinion, United's best performers this season. I've never seen a worse penalty shoot out and the pressure on the club is clearly weighing heavily on them right now. I wonder if that failure is going to destroy the confidence of a couple of them for a while and turn them into Fellainis.
It can be a real confidence destruction but I do believe that most of them have gone through some pretty devestating losses and come back stronger from them, too. Most of this group were there when we lost the title in the last minutes two years ago, let's not forget.
Any professional football player should be well aware how much of a lottery penalty shootouts can be. I don't think any of them would suddenly think themselves that much lesser a person because they failed to get one specific penalty on target. Not to mention that few (none?) of them are actually our preferred penalty takers - they are traditionally RVP, Rooney, Giggs and Nani. None of them were on the pitch, sadly.
You don't have to defend them, Daniel, it wasn't a criticism. :p Any human being would feel awful, no matter how many times they've gone through that sort of thing.
Anyway, I don't get how you can say shoot outs are a lottery and then say a reason for defeat was because your best takers weren't on the pitch ;)
Sunderland are a team who will crunch at the hand at any opportunity given, seriously they're so easy to underestimate and laugh at and they can just as easily snatch a well fought albeit mucky victory from the jaws of defeat. There's been street parties and everything round here because they won the semi finals and personally I'd like to see them smothered by Man City in the finals but, it goes to show that some teams can be the unlikeliest victors... even though Man U played terrible and I was laughing sadistically and evily at the whole thing... :p
Hrrr... SORRY... ITS TRUE...
Oh and did any one see the news article about the drunkard phoning the police demanding to speak to Sir Alex Ferguson after? XD had me in tears laughing!!
I just did! I can achieve the impossible if I try hard enough, that's what I learned from watching TV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Just believe in yourself!
Anyway, Johnson now following Lucas and indeed half the squad to the treatment table. In fact in think our entire first choice back 4 is out now, no wonder we've been shipping goals like crazy. Skrtel is a player who will either have a season where he is an unstoppable beast, or one where he casually invites the opposition strikers round our goal for tea and a hat trick... and this season is the latter. He's still miles better than the hapless Cissokho who makes me long for Djimi Traore he is actually that poor.
And yet... no transfers in! Even a loan til the end of the season would do! What the smurf is going on? Prediction: unless LFC bring in two or three first team players in this window, all the good work we did at the start of the season will be undone and 7th is the best we can hope for.
I think so long as Suarez is fit, anything could happen for Liverpool. If he got a long time on the sidelines then I think it would be a test on par with RVP & Rooney's absence at United. Depends on how long, though.
Yeah, I still think you're strong enough to make the top four. It depends on how serious Everton and Tottenham's challenges are. I can't see either of them finishing ahead of you.
At least it's only defence where you're having issues. Our only strong area of the pitch (other then De Gea) is up front where we have Rooney and Van Persie.
Oh wait, no we don't.
We're alright without him - so long as Sturridge is fit! Sturridge scores just as often as Suarez does, although he's also had injury blights. Suarez seems relatively tough in comparison with Sturridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
I know your strikeforce is alright without Suarez because you have Sturridge, just like you could argue we're alright without RVP because we have Rooney, but 'world class' compared with 'alright'... well, you know it as well as I do! I'm just saying that your defence isn't what has won you most of your games this season, as often you've leaked goals... the key football fact is that you've simply outscored the opposition. This is why I think you're still going to challenge no matter what so long as Suarez is about, and that if Suarez went out, you might suddenly find things rather different, Sturridge or not.
It's a fair point. To explain where I'm coming from though, if you look at the games where Suarez was banned (last season and this season) for The Cannibalism Incident, we actually did really well and won a lot of games - with Sturridge banging them in. I don't think we're so reliant on Suarez as you might think. Of course, if I had to pick one to be injured and one to be playing then it's no contest, but I don't think the season would go to trout purely because of that.
Linked with Kroos now it seems. Not gonna happen though.
Really couldn't be any happier with Mata coming in! :hyper:
I think our priority now should be the defense. A LB and possibly a CB is needed (would like us to go for Cointreao). Ideally Alaba but I'd honestly say he'd cost more than Bale. I have great time for Evra but he doesn't track back like he used to and we always get caught on the break - seen it so often this season. I'm going to do our possible starting line-up just because I like too :p
...................De Gea.....................
Rafael..Vidic..Evans/Jones..Cointreao
.............Fellani.....Carrick/Fletcher..
......Mata........Rooney.....Januzaj....
......................RVP......................
David Ngog
i want to cry
Much as I love Vidic, he's on the way out for me. Like Rio, he's slower and the opposition see weakness in him, they know they can get around him, particularly on the break. Our best defensive partnership this season? Smalling & Evans. Five games, and we won all five with two being clean sheets. Admittedly one of those wins was the draw against Sunderland last game, but yeah. Mix that in with Jones being often touted as our best central defender this season and you look at Vidic/Rio and think "...what are they supposed to be offering us now?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Edge
Smalling has the best record in central defence for us this season overall, as his partnerhips with other CB's have also performed better than those without him. Very underrated chap.
To the tune of "Hi-ho" from Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Ngog, Ngog, Ngog Ngog Ngog, He tucks his cock into his sock, Ngog! Ngog Ngog. You're welcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Manus
Why does every Man United's fan potential line up include Coentrao? I don't get it. :p Also like with Liverpool, United have great attacking options but the defence and deep in Midfield don't look all that convincing.
We're going to lose to Bournemouth. I can feel it. I smurfing hate cup games against lower league opposition. The entire coverage is about OHHHH THERE'S GOING TO BE AN UPSET, and your players clearly don't give a trout because it's Bournemouth - but them and their fans do because Liverpool is a big name. Even if you win, nobody is impressed.
Obvious reason is obvious: We're heavily linked with him. I don't think it's because it's their #1 choice in the world, it's because it's a realistic possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
You can gladly have our luck in FA Cup draws by getting Premier League opposition. Every. Smurfing. Time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Attachment 51131Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Edge
Welp. Cabaye's gone, Newcastle and their reputation for not buying replacements for top players strikes again, oh dear. We could have easily challenged for a Europa League spot if we at least kept the same.
Personally I hope it gives Pardew the idea to try a new formation that involves Ben Arfa so long as his ego isn't in overdrive every game. Great player though when he wants to be.
Just. Depressing really, the midfield was Newcastle's only real strong point this season, OH WELL.
Ngog wasn't a horrible rumour. I'm going to the Fulham game tonight and am half expecting us to have signed Ryan Babel and have him sitting on the bench. This is our Liverpool karma.
Well, at least that misery is over for another season. Going to drown either myself or my sorrows.
I won't rub it in, but I do have to say one thing. "Are you Moyes in disguise?" = chant of the season :lol:
My favourite part of tonight (apart from based shelvey) was not realising Dempsey was even playing until he got taken off in the 70th minute. Fulham were poor.
To be honest with you I usually forget Fulham are even in the league until we play them. Fulham are long overdue a relegation, just such an utterly boring team filled with old men.
fraid not. That Grammy still goes to west ham fans when getting beat 6-0 singing "you're nothing special, we lose every week". Self deprecating ones will always win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Loved United fans singing "We are staying up" in the Stretford End last night.
Regarding our central defence: Smalling & Evans have now played six matches in central defence this season and we have won every game, although this did include the recent 2-1 "match win, tie loss" against Sunderland. A loss, but they didn't partner up for the away game which is where we really lost that tie as far as I'm concerned. They've got 6/6/3 for games/wins/clean sheets, too. I think we should just stick with them for a while now, time to let Rio & Vidic be backup (Jones can remain a DM/DC option and our "third choice central defender"). Let Rio leave at the end of the season, too, as let's face it, the guy no longer warrants his paycheck. But I really hope we give Smalling & Evans a chance to continue their successful run. If they've yet to let us down, I'd say there's no reason to mess with 'em just yet.
Also, RVP is unbeaten in games he's scored in since joining United. Not bad.
Nice to see both Rooney & RVP back at the same time Mata joins us. If we can solidify our back line (RB/LB the bigger concerns for me) and get a quality CM that can play deep, we'll be sorted.
Pretty much. Our attack is looking great again but if only we can hold it together at the back. If we do I'd be 100% confident of taking 4th.
City are starting to look formidable now. I really think they'll be able to take care of Barcelona over two legs in the Champions League. Tottenham were robbed of a goal that was clearly onside. Also, that was a great tackle by Danny Rose yet what do City get? A penalty and a sending off.
I think they still would have won comfortably without those decisions... but the fact that they are getting them whilst still playing well is pretty ominous.
