Sony Plans to Blocks Used Games Completely

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Right now, if you have 10 PSN games, and your console dies, you can just redownload them on a new console. Right now, you can even give your PSN ID to your friends so they can download your game library, and Sony lets you do this with a few machines.

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They cut the number of machines down to two recently actually. If you want to use it on another you have to go through some convoluted de-authorization process to take your account off of a machine. It was much better when the number was 7 machines and I'm not sure why they'd ever bother to change it.

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Actually, all you have to do is click on 'deactivate console' on your machines setting, nothing convuluted about it in the slightest. :p

And the process to do it otherwise is easy enough if you don't have your machine. You can give Tech support your account information and they can clear all of your consoles in just a couple minutes.

And I can understand limiting the downloads to fewer systems, so that you don't have instances of a person buying the game once, yet seven people now have it on their systems. I don't think this was as harmful to them as they claim it was, but I can understand the reasoning, and don't think that this really hurts the consumer at all.

Unlike cutting out the used game market entirely, which I dislike massively. And I very rarely buy used games. Hell, most games I end up pre-ordering first. :p

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

Actually, all you have to do is click on 'deactivate console' on your machines setting, nothing convuluted about it in the slightest. :p

And the process to do it otherwise is easy enough if you don't have your machine. You can give Tech support your account information and they can clear all of your consoles in just a couple minutes.

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If you machine dies or you're trying to deactivate your account on someone elses machine it's convoluted. And yes, I do consider having to go to a Sony website or call their tech support convoluted. There are better ways to handle multiple machines having your log in that would easily prevent someone from simply buying a game and sharing it with multiple consoles at the same time if they aren't there to actually use the thing. But I'm really not convinced that's a serious issue since Valve has never felt the need to do anything about it with Steam. More likely it's an over reaction to the fear of game sharing costing revenue more than anything else.

Frankly, when it comes to managing online accounts on multiple machines, most companies should really be following Valve's lead on the not inconveniencing the consumer end of things.

> Call
> Give account info
> Deactivated

Or

>Sign in on site (Same as PSN)
> Click tab to go to deactivation
> Click Deactivate all.

In no way do I see any of these as convoluted. Not saying better then Valves, but the website is like, a matter of minutes to do at most. :p

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Originally Posted by Bert

People still use consoles? :p

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Yeah. I mean where else will you get games like Yakuza 3 and 4, Cross Edge, Blue Dragon, and all the other cool stuff that is only on consoles?

If you don't play any Japan-made games or quirky games, then maybe PC would be right for you, but until they start releasing stuff like this on PC, I will stick with consoles, thank you. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

> Call
> Give account info
> Deactivated

Or

>Sign in on site (Same as PSN)
> Click tab to go to deactivation
> Click Deactivate all.

In no way do I see any of these as convoluted. Not saying better then Valves, but the website is like, a matter of minutes to do at most. :p

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I don't know my PSN password, so I have to jump through hoops to get it. I also see you've never tried calling Sony for support before. Or apparently any call center for that matter. :p

Plus, let's keep in mind that I'm comparing this to a system which doesn't require you to ever deactivate a machine. Compared to requiring the consumer to do literally nothing, everything else is more convoluted.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

> Call
> Give account info
> Deactivated

Or

>Sign in on site (Same as PSN)
> Click tab to go to deactivation
> Click Deactivate all.

In no way do I see any of these as convoluted. Not saying better then Valves, but the website is like, a matter of minutes to do at most. :p

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I don't know my PSN password, so I have to jump through hoops to get it. I also see you've never tried calling Sony for support before. Or apparently any call center for that matter. :p

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I actually worked for Sony Tech support. Its why I know the process is so easy. XD

Calling them is only really a hassle if you end up having to wait, which really sucks. Or if you have a silly problem or a troutty tech support guy. (Mind you, I was awesome. ;P)

Doesn't change how easy the site is to use, or the fact it's your own damn fault for forgetting your Password. ;P

[QUOTE=Vivi22;3197201]

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

> Call
> Give account info
> Deactivated

Or

>Sign in on site (Same as PSN)
> Click tab to go to deactivation
> Click Deactivate all.

In no way do I see any of these as convoluted. Not saying better then Valves, but the website is like, a matter of minutes to do at most. :p

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I have to agree with NeoCracker. It takes all of 2 minutes to deactivate, tops.

And ANYTHING is better than Valve, as long as Gabe Newell is still there. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

I actually worked for Sony Tech support. Its why I know the process is so easy. XD

Calling them is only really a hassle if you end up having to wait, which really sucks. Or if you have a silly problem or a troutty tech support guy. (Mind you, I was awesome. ;P)

Doesn't change how easy the site is to use, or the fact it's your own damn fault for forgetting your Password. ;P

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I'll assume you speak better english than the person I had to talk to that one time then. :p

As for the password, I accept no responsibility for forgetting a password you enter once and then will probably never use again.

I don't have problems with people who can't afford to buy games at full price. I just object to used-game models as a good way to drive down the costs. Used games are not the only source of cheap games, and I imagine that if something like this goes through, it becomes more feasible that through digital distribution models we will start to see availability of services like Steam directly on consoles. My point is that there is no incentive whatsoever right now for developers to cater to gamers who buy primarily used games. Any attempt they make to either force GameStop to give them a slice of the pie (by threatening to shut them down with new technology outright prohibiting used games sales) or be able to take an additional cut by forcing users to pay to unlock something is fine.

Also, I don't know where everyone else is getting their used games, but unless you're waiting a really long time to play game, the price drop off is not significant. Maybe if you're buying used copies from random sellers on eBay, but I've seen that go sour with bad copies too many times to trust it.

Mirage, as one who works in the publishing industry, used book stores are a damned parasite, especially in college textbook sales. I've seen the numbers. I've seen the cost of what goes into making a textbook. I can confirm there's a damned good reason those textbooks are so expensive, and a good chunk of it is because there is no major profit outside the initial release, much of which is due to used books sales. While I doubt it is the main factor, I would not be surprised that this is also the case for video games.

Prices have gone up on games because development costs have skyrocketed, but it certainly doesn't help that the proliferation of used games have meant that anything but a AAA franchise title is a risk for the developer. Unless the developer has a franchise with an established fanbase and reputation of quality, many consumers are perfectly happy to wait and see if that new game is worth the price point. Don't get me wrong, I get it. Shelling out $60 for something new and unproven is a big investment, but getting it used down the road doesn't do much of anything to encourage a developer to do anything other than sequels.

If developers could actually get legacy sales on titles, the additional revenue may be enough incentive to spurn some innovation. At the very least, it doesn't hurt. This is not exclusive to video games. There's a reason that the entertainment industry churns out sequels over new material, and as much as we like to rail on them for it, as consumers, a lot of the blame falls on us. They're only making what we consistently buy. If they made enough money on experimental new titles, they'd be making more of them.

To Quin's point: developers and publishers aren't the only ones who need to be more reasonable. Consumers do too. It goes both ways, and too often consumers have an attitude of entitlement when it comes to media of all forms. I support affordable platforms that lead us in the right direction across all media: Netflix, Spotify, Steam, etc. I'm not perfect, I still pirate a bit (cable is really the last bastion that won't move the smurf on from their antiquated models), but I do my best to put my money where my mouth is and support content creators. I'd love for them to ditch money-grubbing middle-men, but those money-grubbing middle-men are also the ones who have the capital to throw in for the production values I appreciate.

Also Vivi22, that's absurd. Choose a password you won't forget.

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

My point is that there is no incentive whatsoever right now for developers to cater to gamers who buy primarily used games.

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Not really true. Every sale of a cheap used game is a potential long term customer that may enjoy that used game enough to want your next one when it comes out.

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Mirage, as one who works in the publishing industry, used book stores are a damned parasite, especially in college textbook sales. I've seen the numbers. I've seen the cost of what goes into making a textbook. I can confirm there's a damned good reason those textbooks are so expensive, and a good chunk of it is because there is no major profit outside the initial release, much of which is due to used books sales. While I doubt it is the main factor, I would not be surprised that this is also the case for video games.

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And yet the irony here is that book publishers seem to be making a bigger push at selling less expensive digital copies than the people who work in a medium which is digital by definition. Just look at the state of console digital sales. I've noticed Sony making a more pronounced effort in the last year or so to get digital releases on the Playstation store when games come out, but that still puts them what? More than half a decade behind Steam and the PC market in general? To say nothing of other platforms like smart phones which have had this stuff figured out for years as well. It's kind of sad really, since a solution that can satisfy both publishers and consumers is right there. And it's even sadder if you're falling behind books when it comes to keeping up with current technology.

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Also Vivi22, that's absurd. Choose a password you won't forget.

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It's really not that absurd when you consider how many passwords I have, including unique variations on the same basic password, which I already remember. Forgive me for not remembering one password that I haven't had to enter in three years. It's actually absurd that you think forgetting it under those circumstances is so unheard of.

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

You won't be able to buy used games anymore? Boo-smurfing-hoo. You know what a customer who buys used games is worth to a console or games developer? Nothing. Not a damned penny. They make absolutely nothing on used games. You may as well be pirating the game, because the only company making any money off of it is GameStop, and we could all do with less of that parasite in the industry.

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Actually, Sony still make money from the sales of used games. I only found this out about a couple of days ago when reading Gamasutra. Microsoft and Nintendo make money from the sales of games for their consoles, too, even when used.

Developers, though, I'm pretty sure they get sod all.

So, then they'd sell the rest on the ps store.......and make everything expensive.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

Not really true. Every sale of a cheap used game is a potential long term customer that may enjoy that used game enough to want your next one when it comes out.

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Potentially, but I would argue that constitutes a relatively small market not fiscally worth pursuing when there are more financially viable alternatives. It would be interesting to see the real numbers on it, but in my anecdotal experience, people who buy used games tend to almost exclusively buy used for financial reasons. It does not tend to stimulate brand loyalty.

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And yet the irony here is that book publishers seem to be making a bigger push at selling less expensive digital copies than the people who work in a medium which is digital by definition. Just look at the state of console digital sales. I've noticed Sony making a more pronounced effort in the last year or so to get digital releases on the Playstation store when games come out, but that still puts them what? More than half a decade behind Steam and the PC market in general? To say nothing of other platforms like smart phones which have had this stuff figured out for years as well. It's kind of sad really, since a solution that can satisfy both publishers and consumers is right there. And it's even sadder if you're falling behind books when it comes to keeping up with current technology.

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There's a fundamental difference between consoles and smart phones/PCs, though. The PS3 and Xbox 360 launched well before the proliferation of digital distribution models, and they were not designed to accomodate this. Typically significant features like that roll out with new console generations. I imagine we'll see a big push toward it when the next consoles launch. But consoles are simply not designed to make big changes quickly. Digital distribution is absolutely the future, but to complain about this not coming sooner is to fundamentally ignore the limitations of consoles.

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It's really not that absurd when you consider how many passwords I have, including unique variations on the same basic password, which I already remember. Forgive me for not remembering one password that I haven't had to enter in three years. It's actually absurd that you think forgetting it under those circumstances is so unheard of.

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You misunderstand. I'm not suggesting it's absurd that you forgot. I'm suggesting it's absurd to insist that Sony's system is at fault or too complicated because of your decisions. I don't remember my exact password for that log-in either, but I can successfully guess it because I know it's one of three passwords I tend to use for that sort of thing.

Also to BoB's point: did not know. That makes sense given that it's typically the console developer who controls deals with retailers rather than individual game developers. They would be able to force a point in a contract that gives them a cut of all sales on products licensed for their consoles. The point still remains that there are ramifications then for games developed by third parties which make up... a majority of the games in the world. This might also explain why Nintendo--as a heavily first-party developer console--has not pushed in this direction (and potentially why their games have been cheaper).

My understanding is that it doesn't matter if Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft developed the game or not. They still get a cut of all pre-owned game sales.

I meant more that it is likely that Nintendo feels less pressure from third party developers to restrict used games sales because they're primarily first-party.