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Sin is apretty underrated FF Villain. While not as destructive as some of the villains, the monster has the pure size and its force field would be a bitch to get through by some of the baddies.
So, what evil dudes in FF history could take Sin one-on-one and win?
Sin and Zeromus are the only villains of a mainstream FF that were never defeated in a fair fight.
Chaos: Defeated by the Light Warriors, twice. Apart from being well-hidden, he wasn't much of a fighter.
Emporer Palamecia: Both his human and final form were crushed by Frioniel and friends.
Dark Cloud: I think he was in the same boat as Chaos.
Zeromus: Was invincible to anything and everything FuSoYa, Golbez and your party threw at him until Cecil used the Crystal. Even supposing a villain got his hands on the crystal, it would be useless because a man of darkness using it means nothing to Zeromus.
ExDeath: He was beaten by Galuf in a one-on-one fight just before Galuf died. He also lost the final fight of the game.
Kefka: Beaten by the Returners, at least twice.
Sephiroth: Omnislashed into oblivion.
Ultimecia: Again, killed by Squall and the others.
Kefka: Even though the mighty planet-busting Kuja was not killed by the main party, he did lose to Zidane and co., but he still won the war with his Ultima.
Sin: All front-on attacks were useless against him. Operation Mi'ihen was a slaughter, and the Final Summoning only provided temporary defeat (not that a villain could use it anyway). The Hymn of the Fayth eventually made him docile enough to be breached and taken down from inside (though Overdrive Sin still had the most devastating technique ever seen in a Final Fantasy game, Giga Gravitron). Now, I don't think any villain would know the Hymn of the Fayth, so there's no way they could get close enough without being crushed like an ant by GG.
Vayne: Never finished XII, but I read he was defeated as the Undying.
Since there's nothing to suggest he could be taken down by any of those guys, we can assume, if the fight went on long enough, he would kill everyone except Zeromus.
Trance Kuja, WoR-Kefka, or Sephy using black materia might have enough raw power to break through his shield, however if any of the villains were allowed to have the hymn playing while they fought Sin, as the heroes of the game did, then most baddies could beat Sin, considering how easy he was for a relatively inexperienced group of guardians to take down.
Correction. Cloud of Darkness KILLED the heroes and if it wasn't for Doga and Unei sacrificing their souls to the Light Warriors to revive them, Cloud of Darkness would have won. After their first defeat, the Light Warriors had to defeat the 4 Dark Crystals bosses first before they even could harm the Dark Cloud. It then still took a kamikaze asault of the Warriors of the Dark before the Cloud of Darkness could finally be harmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
And even then, she still was a tough cookie. So, she was quite the very great fighter and one hell of a being to get rid of. =/ And eventually she'd return anyway, if Light and Dark get unbalanced again, the Void will just create a new Cloud of Darkness.
So unles Sin destroyed the 4 Dark Crystals and convinced the 4 Warriors of the Dark to help him and attack the Cloud, all his attacks would deal no damage to Cloud of Darkness, while she would be hapily Particle Beaming him for instant kill.
Ex-Death using the Void, Final Ultimecia, AC Sephiroth using his true power, maybe Super Trance Kuja, and God Kefka.
I don't think none of those FF villains can beat Sin. Sin, is, technically a FF villain because of Jecht. Sin is both very HUGE and powerful.
Think about it, if all of us can beat all other FF villians at ease, then it's no doubt that those FF villians cannot beat Sin because they are weaker than us. In fact, Sin was quite tough as a boss.
Sin was easy for me. And in-game =/= story. Like I said and others, Zeromus and Cloud of Darkness are untouchable until you use the Crystal on Zeromus or free the Warriors of the Dark for weakening Cloud of Darkness. Kuja destroyed the surface of Terra in the story but in-game he was a pretty easy boss. So well, allmost all villains can defeat Sin. Sin is not untouchable, which some villains are untill certain conditions are met. Sin cannot beat that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
And even in-game, most villains can defeat Sin, IMHO.
It wasn't the Hymn of the Fayth alone that made Sin docile. Jecht was inside "holding off" Sin's devastating attacks, waiting for Tidus. Other villains wouldn't have had this.
As Mihen operation showed, Sin's long distance attacks packed a punch. Killing it from the inside was the only way, but no one would be likely to get that close to Sin without their dad inside holding off the beast.
Vayne is a pushover. The rooks on his ship were harder than it's 3 forms.
Probably but if it's true then Sin sucked in battles, but outside of that, it seemed really really powerful from the cutscenes. Sin is capable of destroying huge things, it has destroyed cities and people.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElpizoSin was easy for me. And in-game =/= story. Like I said and others, Zeromus and Cloud of Darkness are untouchable until you use the Crystal on Zeromus or free the Warriors of the Dark for weakening Cloud of Darkness. Kuja destroyed the surface of Terra in the story but in-game he was a pretty easy boss. So well, allmost all villains can defeat Sin. Sin is not untouchable, which some villains are untill certain conditions are met. Sin cannot beat that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
And even in-game, most villains can defeat Sin, IMHO.
If Sin used that big special skill (forget what is it called), as it's extremetly overpowered and it will kill everything at a fast speed.
As Kuja effortlessly destroyed a planet that was close to eternal prosperity and Sephiroth failed to effect a Planet that can't heal big holes and has been in dire straits for years now, I'd say Kuja's Trance powers are definitely above AC Sephiroth.
@Gilthanes: If a character fights Superman, and has access to Kryponite, it's not an accurate indication of his or her strength. Same goes for Sin and the Hymn. And where did you get the idea that X's heroes were more inexperienced than most? II, III, V, VIII and X-2 had no members older than 19 (considering Galuf was a temporary character); and of the other games, X has one of the highest ratio of characters > 20 years to characters < 20 years, only beaten by VII and possibly IV and VI (I can't find a reliable source for the ages of the latter games.
@Elpizo: You claim that Cloud of Darkness, Zeromus are invulnerable, which I'm not disputing, but this thread isn't called "What FF Villains couldn't be beaten by Sin." Sin is just as invincible, so it would end in a stalemate, not in Sin's death. You also seem to be forgetting about Giga Gravitron; the fact that it results in a Game Over even if you have an Aeon out means it's not just a flashy attack like Particle Beam, Big Bang, or Supernova. Plus the only reason you could even have time to defeat him before he uses it is due to Jecht's influence and the Hymn.
@ The Crystal: Evidence?
@ Renmiri: I didn't even think of that point about Jecht holding off Sin. Thanks for that.
@Serapy: Are you thinking of Giga Gravitron? It's the move he uses if his OD bar fills up, and it pretty much the same kind of attack he uses in cutscenes.
Yuna just became a summoner as the story opened, Tidus had never held a sword before when the game opened up, and the only one with actual and provable fighting experience is Auron.
Thats where I came up with the relatively inexperienced comment :)
Lol, Wut?Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
Just once by a party not the Returners. And in reality the idea of the "returners" -really faded- once Kefka sent the world into ruin, the Returners were and orginzation hell bent on keeping the empire from taking over the world but not by using force. Seeing as everyone was spread out for a year on different parts of the newly given world (literally the continents were shifted) they lack the orginazation skills to be an orginazation.
The only actual members of the returners ever even in your party would be Locke and Edgar. Or Bannon but yeah he's in your party for like not long. Only a Temp~
So Kefka was never beaten by the returners.
A party of a half-esper, a runic knight, a theif, a king/knight, a martial artist, a ninja (if you kept him), an.. artist, a blue mage, another knight/samuraaaiii, a yeti, a moogle, a gambler, and a beserker is what did Kefka in. Angel of death (SEE LAST TIER) or not, that's a party of extremely powerful people and we all know ever angel of death has fallen. (SEE FIRST TEIR)
But yeah, I think Sin's size would be annoying. But I think Kuja and Kefka could do him in. I mean all Kefka would have to do is sit on his tower and light of judgement sin to death and that's not even full power. Kuja's shown signs of emense power and does use it, but since he never blows up the planet that the main stories going on every disregards his abilities. x x
Particle Beam is an instant-KO move, though, just like Giga Gravitron, unless Cloud of Darkness is weakened. So when we put CoD versus Sin, it's one instant-KO attack versus the other, with the difference that Sin has to charge it, CoD can use it at any moment. I know Sin had that pretty strong shield thing around him during that operation in the story, making him almost invincible, but it's the same really with CoD. She could be Particle Beaming the Hell out of him until his shield is gone, while Sin might use Giga Gravitron once, not harming her since he can't unless he... well, you know by now. And once Sin's shield drops, it's game over for him. Or they both could continue attacking endlessly. Both not being able to harm each other with their Hero-killing attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
And if Sin really starts to get annoying, CoD would just return the world to the Void where nothing exists. How she would do that I have no idea, but her sole purpose is to do that, so I guess she can do it. And by returning all to nothing => Bye, bye, Sin. Same way NeoExDeath, True Ultimecia and Necron could kill Sin.
If Sin is the largest FF villain and has powerful spells combined then it will have many chances to win better, nonetheless.
I really hate threads like this but what the hell...
For the sake of argument I am not even going to base my logic on game mechanics (cause it's stupid and pointless) so you can take your Particle Beams, Giga Galvatron, and Trance Ultima and stick it up where the sun don't shine.:mad: Back on topic...
The real question that will answer this is how the Final Aeon works, which is never showned or explained in the game so for the sake of argument we'll assume that the Final Aeon works through force (i.e. it's more powerful than Sin and can pentrate it's shield and thick hide). If it worked another way (though the evidence is seriously lacking) then this debate would be irrelevant.
This would dictate that force alone could beat him. Because of this, it's possible for Exdeath, Kefka, Kuja, Sephiroth, and the Cloud of Darkness could destroy Sin cause all of them either showcased enough power to decimate a planet on a large scale (something Sin seems incapable of) or by story explanation should have the power to do so.
The Palamecian Emperor is strong but even his power to create devastating Tornadoes wouldn't bother Sin, Ultemacia never showcased enough power to do anything other than bend time to her will but even then we never got a decent estimate of her abilities so arguing her validness is moot. The Undying doesn't showcase even a fraction of what Sin pulled off so we'll assume he would lose. Chaos is sorta've in the same boat as Ultimacia but overall he just seems to be strong and nothing else.
Zeromus is a completely different story though... We never get to see how powerful he is on a destructive scale but the whole story sequence about the crystal can't be discounted. The question depends on how you interpret the scene. Personally, I feel Zeromus was a spiritual being and Cecil using the Crystal gave him a physical form which means he could be killed. In his true form, Zeromus can't be hurt but like the other mentioned above, we don't have any clear evidence of the extent of his power so chances were he probably couldn't hurt Sin so the battle would end in a stalemate. If Zeromus was in his final form he could be beaten by Sin.
She was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.
I can't say anything about Promathia (stupid internet connection won't let me play XI I'm afraid...).:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalShe was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.
Though I won't deny Ultimacia doesn't have some impressive abilities, I'm going for brute force here which is something we never get to see in the game. Edea really never did anything impressive enough to make it plausible either her (or Ultimacia controlling her) could stand a chance against Sin. Basically, if we had a better understanding of her destructive potential, we could determine something but ultimately it's pure specualtion.
The more I think about it, I'm going to say Sephiroth probably couldn't beat Sin either. The chances of Sin being hit with Meteor or being stupid enough to be in it's initial blast zone seems inplausible to me. Not to mention the fact that the climate devastation would have little impact on Sin since it's not technically an organic being from a scientific viewpoint (at least what little we know). Sephiroth would literally have to cast the Meteor spell and somehow get it to hit the planet from every direction to actually destroy Sin and there is little evidence to prove whether he's capable of pulling this off...
Not to mention the whole week it takes Meteor to arrive, Sin could have squashed Sephiroth....
I'm going to side with a few people here and say that Trance Kuja and Kefka in WoR are probably the two villains that would have the best chance, given their god-like status.
Actually, disregard that, Palmer could beat Sin.
Damn straight.
Did you see him get hit by that truck? Took it like nothing.
Ultimecia can look into Sin or Yu Yevon's mind, see what he think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers. She wins IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf KannoI can't say anything about Promathia (stupid internet connection won't let me play XI I'm afraid...).:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalShe was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.
Though I won't deny Ultimacia doesn't have some impressive abilities, I'm going for brute force here which is something we never get to see in the game. Edea really never did anything impressive enough to make it plausible either her (or Ultimacia controlling her) could stand a chance against Sin. Basically, if we had a better understanding of her destructive potential, we could determine something but ultimately it's pure specualtion.
The more I think about it, I'm going to say Sephiroth probably couldn't beat Sin either. The chances of Sin being hit with Meteor or being stupid enough to be in it's initial blast zone seems inplausible to me. Not to mention the fact that the climate devastation would have little impact on Sin since it's not technically an organic being from a scientific viewpoint (at least what little we know). Sephiroth would literally have to cast the Meteor spell and somehow get it to hit the planet from every direction to actually destroy Sin and there is little evidence to prove whether he's capable of pulling this off...
And forget Meteor. Sephiroth have controll over the majority of the Lifestream in Gaia. He can transform an entire planet in his vessel. With a power like that, I think he have a good chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
First off, X gives the impression that Yu-Yevon doesn't have enough of a mind to look into. I doubt she could find anything of use. At best, she might be able to create another Sin. I still doubt her power would make much of a difference and even if she did destroy Sin, Yu-Yevon would just take over the Sin she created (it would technically count as an Aeon) and then it would devolve into a battle of wills but I personally feel Ultimacia would fall to Yu-Yevon's madness.
Sephiroth never pulled this off and I doubt it's a power unique to him (Aerith showed something similiar to this concept of exerting their will over the planet) so Sephiroth would have to contend with the minds of every lifeform that makes up the Lifestream. Even if he got control, what could he do? Him using the power of the planet to destroy Sin would probably destroy the planet as well which means he would destroy himself as well. The battle is a stalemate.Quote:
And forget Meteor. Sephiroth have controll over the majority of the Lifestream in Gaia. He can transform an entire planet in his vessel. With a power like that, I think he have a good chance.
Fayth
"Yu Yevon was once a summoner, long ago."
"He was peerless."
"Yet now he lives for one purpose: only to summon."
"He is neither good, nor evil. He is awake, yet he dreams."
@Gilthanes: I see what you meant by "inexperienced" now. :) However, Lulu is on her third pilgrimage, Kimahri grew up a Ronso, so is probably even stronger than Auron because of his genes, and Wakka wouldn't have come along if he didn't have battle experience.
@ Avarice-Ness: I assumed that your party in VI took the name "Returners", because Locke and Edgar were already members, Terra and Sabin joined the Returners as well, and your party grew from there. So, my statement should have read:
1. Defending the Esper at Narshe, when you split your party into three groups.Quote:
Kefka: Beaten by your main party at least twice.
2. The final battle.
Also, I doubt Kefka LoJ would be effective on Sin, since we never see it in action against anything that can fight back. Recall Operation Mi'ihen, and the Al Bhed's machina attack on Sin.
@ Elpizo: The only reason GG has to charge is because of the Hymn. Without it, the battle with Overdrive Sin would have him start with a full OD bar, ambush you 100% of the time, and be able to bypass First Strike. Am I getting my point about GG across?
@ Wolf Kanno: Attacks like Big Bang, Particle Beam, Ultima, Supernova, etc. are game mechanics because the animation is exaggerated. It causes massive explosions, but does not blast your party into tiny little pieces. GG's effect is exactly what the animation suggests: the party is crushed by an unblockable attack. Try casting Auto-Life in that battle and letting Sin use GG. Did you party survive? No, they didn't. This is because GG is more than a mere game mechanic. It's in the same boat as LoJ
Considering Zeromus cannot be hurt unless weakened by a Paladin who is using the Crystal, Zeromus can take him down.
If it is a long range battle my bet is also on Kefka, and Kuja as well.
And from what I understand Neo X-Death and the power of the Void was pretty kick butt.
Things that I wouldn't be on...
Sephiroth: His use of the sword would be useless, and "Turning the earth into his vessal" never actually occurred Crystal, deal with it. Not to mention that would be totally useless in a 1-1 fight anyway.
Ulti: Time is good and all, but Time Compression takes time for her, Sin would just blow her up.
Chaos: Never really anything impressive.
Vayne: He was cool and all, but his power is never really explained, and he didn't look good enough to beat Sin.
The I have no Idea section.
Emperor: Dunno never beat FFII.
Dark Cloud: Never beat FFIII
Chaos doesn't sound too special to me. I don't think creating time loops will help against defeating Sin.
I have to say that the Emporer might be able to beat Sin, since he became the King of Heaven and Hell. That's quite a feat there.
Don't know much about Cloud of Darkness...
Many people are saying Zeromus can beat Sin, but I don't think this can be considered correct. In his first form, Zeromus may be invulnerable to physical and magical attacks, but he can't fight until he is hit. It was only in his second form when he started to relentlessly attack. I think this was why in his first form, Zeromus was only able to attack the party when Golbez and FuSoYa casted Meteor. And I think this is also why he would sit there doing nothing until Cecil used the Crystal. So all Sin would have to do is...nothing! And the battle would be a stalemate.
Neo X-Death could most likely beat Sin. The Void is the most powerful force in FFV, with the exception of the Crystals.
Kefka could beat Sin as well, since he had the power of the Statues, and the game said that the statues had control over all magic in FFVI.
I think Sephiroth might have a chance against Sin. In FFVII, even though he didn't control all of Lifestream, I would probably say he controlled a good amount of Lifestream (most likely half). The rest of it was controlled by Aeris and the planet. And half of the planet's energy might actually be enough to beat Sin. Not to mention he was also powerful enough to contain Holy's power, one of FFVII's most powerful forces.
Sin would kill Ultimecia long before she could achieve Time Compression.
I doubt Sin could blow up Spira in one attack, even with Giga Graviton. But Trance Kuja could, so Kuja wins.
As for Shuyin, he himself cannot possibly beat Sin. However, he probably could with Vegnagun.
Have we ever seen Sin hold himself back against someone who isn't Tidus? Sin is a ruthless killing machine, devoid of a brain. The closest thing it has to a brain is Yu Yevon, and I think we can safely say he's too stupid to figure out that he shouldn't attack Zeromus.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
While it's directly stated Kuja destroyed all of Terra, it wasn't just one attack.Quote:
I doubt Sin could blow up Spira in one attack, even with Giga Graviton. But Trance Kuja could, so Kuja wins.
Sin can't hit Sephiroth, because of his insane speed(equal to Chaos Vincent, Omega Weiss, and DBZ characters) and intangibility(the power of the J-cells).Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
The Lifestream destroyed the Northern Crater barrier, it destroyed everything(buildings and etc) in it's way to stop Meteor(this was explained in "On a Way to a Smile"), AND destroyed Meteor itself.
.........Sephiroth can controll this Lifestream and make it cover the sky in seconds and attack anything he want. It's like a more powerfull version of the Light of Judgement.
He is at least in the same level of friggin Omega Weapon, because "there is nothing above him". Omega IS a vessel to all the energy of the planet. And Seph is at least EQUAL to her/it.
Yes, Sephiroth can transform the planet in a vessel, "deal with it".
And IMO, he have a good chance against Sin. It's my opinion, and you will have to "deal with it" too.
Insane speed doesn't really matter, because as soon as he charges in BOOM Giga Graviton, and no he can't dodge that.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalSin can't hit Sephiroth, because of his insane speed(equal to Chaos Vincent, Omega Weiss, and DBZ characters) and intangibility(the power of the J-cells).Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
The Lifestream destroyed the Northern Crater barrier, it destroyed everything(buildings and etc) in it's way to stop Meteor(this was explained in "On a Way to a Smile"), AND destroyed Meteor itself.
.........Sephiroth can controll this Lifestream and make it cover the sky in seconds and attack anything he want. It's like a more powerfull version of the Light of Judgement.
He is at least in the same level of friggin Omega Weapon, because "there is nothing above him". Omega IS a vessel to all the energy of the planet. And Seph is at least EQUAL to her/it.
Yes, Sephiroth can transform the planet in a vessel, "deal with it".
And IMO, he have a good chance against Sin. It's my opinion, and you will have to "deal with it" too.
As for the "More powerful light of judgement" thing, if that was true, Cloud would've died from that.
PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2
Have we ever seen sephiroth ever do any of that crap you just mentioned? You can't base sephiroth's speed on the game because he's just as fast as the other characters in battle and it's turn based so its hard to tell, heck if you're comparing it to cloud when they fought together then your comparing a high level to a level 1. His movements are exaggerated in the film like every other damn character. The life stream attacking anything it wants? Where have we seen this besides the film where every action is exaggerated?
WHEN HAS SEPHIROTH USED THE PLANET AS A VESSEL SUCCESSFULLY OR PROVED HE COULD BEYOND WORDS.
It's arguable if Seph is actually able to use the planet as a vessel, since Aeris controls a good amount of Lifestream as well. But we all know that he was never able to accomplish that feat, since Cloud defeated him in AC before he could.
But again, turning the planet into a vessel doesn't really mean anything in a fight. But controlling half of the planet's energy and being able to contain Holy is something that says he might be powerful enough to beat Sin.
sephy would becuz is the bomb and strong
I think pretty much any villain could defeat it.
Sephiroth: Did anyone forgot he summoned one major Meteor, if that were to hit 'Sin's hard Shell' even he would be defeated, considering the holy materia is not there to protect it.
Ultimecia: She tries to make time-compression, and only she can exist in such a world... so technically, sin wouldn't exist anymore and such defeated.
Vayne: Well, he's got Bahamut Super Sized Ship. Yeah.
I don't use game mechanics because they have to follow certain rules which are unrealistic to the logic of the situation. I won't deny that Sin's GG couldn't do that type of irreversible damage to your party cause realistically, it would vaporize them to dust (Logically, you would think auto-life requires your body to be somewhat intact in order to work?;) ). I wanted to base power on what we see within the game's story. Basically, Sin could cause mass damage with GG that could level cities and perhaps even mountains. His massive bulk within the sea causes tsunami's, not to mention his rarely seen Sin Spawn could deal with smaller threats. A normal human being hit with that kinda've power couldn't possibly survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
My point is, I feel it's incredibly powerful but I won't follow it's rule of being unblockable instant death. Because the ability is used on being of an inferior power. Sin is dealing with threats on an equal standing with it in their respective games. The fact that the Final Aeon is enough to temporarily destroy it proves that it's special attacks are not nearly omnipotent. Logic basically destroys game mechanic credibility. Of course I'm not accusing you of saying GG is invincible but I'm using it as an example of how in game mechanics differ from story. I seriously don't think Trance Kuja's Ultima is invincible either but I'm certain it's quite powerful just like Sin's Giga Galvatron is powerful as well.
You forgot he can turn intangible too, or create a barrier even more powerful than the one in the Northern Crater.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Yeah, but Seph didn't want to kill Cloud in one attack. He wanted to make Cloud suffer.Quote:
As for the "More powerful light of judgement" thing, if that was true, Cloud would've died from that.
And I love how you accuse me of something I never did. Where is the insult? Show me.Quote:
PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2
My point in this thread is:
Sephiroth = Omega Weapon = most of the Lifestream in the planet = power of a god. How I know that? Because "there is nothing stronger, nothing above him".
Sorry, but I still believe Seph have a good chance against Sin.
@ Raebus: He claimed he could, and he was either telling the truth, overestimating himself, or bluffing. I don't see any reason why he would bluff; if he was trying to torment Cloud, he surely would have done it after Cloud had been disarmed; he wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating Cloud twice. Overestimating himself seems more likely, but I doubt it, since he was able to hold back Holy using his will alone, and did control some of the Lifestream.
@ Hyperion4444: Sephiroth and Ultimecia both have to charge those attacks. While they were waiting, Sin would crush them like ants.
And as for Vayne? Sin 1, Machina 0
@ Wolf Kanno: I agree with you, I was just making sure you didn't write off Sin's power. The problem is, most villains' attacks are similarly untested, so it's difficult to compare them in a one-on-one fight.
@ The Crystal: In Gaia, there is no Kefka, Kuja, Sin etc., so being the most powerful in that world is nothing special.
Sephiroth summoned meteor, either he lives or not, the meteor still hits ''btw, he said could defeat sin, didn't said he could defeat vuce versa, if Sephiroth tries to take it on with the masumune, then he's dead''Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
But it's the meteor that defeats it.
Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.
A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower.
Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.
Bahamut is not a machina
Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!
And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.
Sephiroth summoning Meteor shouldn't even count. He had to use the Black Materia in order to use Meteor, not out of his own power. Anybody could have probably done the same thing if he or she had the Black Materia.Quote:
Sephiroth summoned meteor, either he lives or not, the meteor still hits ''btw, he said could defeat sin, didn't said he could defeat vuce versa, if Sephiroth tries to take it on with the masumune, then he's dead''
But it's the meteor that defeats it.
Okay...Quote:
Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.
First off, Ultimecia does NOT live in space. She lives in a castle in the future. That's where all your characters went to go fight her in the end of the game. Secondly, it takes a long time for Time Compression to occur; my guess is over 1000 years. But before that 1000 years occurs, she only has power equivalent to any other sorceress. Her power is nothing compared to Sin and she would be annihilated. Thirdly, if you decide to include Hell's Judgement, you would be going by battle mechanics. And according to battle mechanics, Sin's Giga Graviton automatically kills anything. Ulti gets annihilated again.
By the way, there is no way to really tell whether Eden could annihilate Sin. After all, the only thing we have to judge Eden with is Eternal Breath, which doesn't actually destroy the galaxy.
And as said before, it was because of the Hymn of the Faith and Jecht holding back Yu-Yevon that made Sin wait before using Giga Graviton.Quote:
And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
Sin can't stop Meteor. So? It's not like Meteor can change course. Sin just flies out of its range. Meteor strikes the Planet instead, causing a wound in it, which is then healed by the Lifestream. InQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
FFVII, Meteor wasn't intended to destroy the Planet, just to draw the Lifestream to one point so it could be absorbed.
I'm not an expert on FFVIII's plot, so I may be disregarding plot points, but there's nothing to suggest Sin couldn't survive in space (if Ultimecia and Squall can bypass the problems of space being a vacuum and lack of oxygen then Sin certainly could). HP is a game mechanic; Ulty can't just siphon off Sin's HP with spells, she needs something to break through his armour. I don't know of any magic she would have access to that would be strong enough.Quote:
Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.
Doesn't sound like anything more powerful than what the Machina War (1000 years before the start of FFX) would've produced. And you all know how they fared against Sin.Quote:
A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower. Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.
Um, yes it is. "Machina" is just another word for "machine". FFXII's Bahamut is not an Esper, or any other kind of living organism.Quote:
Bahamut is not a machina
That point may be clear to someone who's finished XII, but it's not to me.Quote:
Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!
FFS, how many times do I have to say it? THE HYMN WEAKENS SIN AND MAKES HIM SLOWER THAN NORMAL. WITHOUT THE HYMN, HE CAN ATTACK IMMEDIATELY.Quote:
And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
No, other way around. Sin would crush them in an instant.Quote:
I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.
It. Was. Not. Space.
We are flat out TOLD and SHOWN Squall can't breathe or move in space. or was the whole "gotta save Rinoa in space suit before we both die" lost on everyone?
The place you fight Ultimecia in her final form is just some random black void.
It'sa as much space as Safer Sephiroth fights you all in some Heaven.
It has no storyline or plot significance unless you can tell me any quotes made on the subject?
I'm a total FFX fangirl, so of course I'm going to say nothing can beat Sin n.n
Sin couldn't be defeated until Jecht came into the picture. He became Sin (though he still had some control over him at the end of the game, so we can say that Sin wasn't even at his full strength), then Auron brought over Tidus, and then he fell in lurve with Yuna, and they were like, YA! LOVE CONQUERS ALL!
Sin could only be defeated when Jecht was still somewhat himself, that way they could use the Hymn to ambush him and kill him from the inside out!
Sin's practically immortal.
(most definitely practically immortal)
Yeah, but in Gaia we have the Weapons, Chaos Vincent, Omega Weapon, Zirconiade, the Lifestream and everything it can do, and (SPOILER)Goddess Minerva, the personification of the planet itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé;2300737@
With exception of the Weapons, each one of these guys/girls/things can destroy everything in the planet. In power, they aren't behind Kefka, Kuja, Sin, etc.
Oh yeah, Ultimecia would begun TC just to die before it was completed(because it take 1000 years like you said, and soreceresses have the life spam of a normal human). That make so much sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupu
"She only has power equivalent to any other sorceress". This is why she conquered the entire world in her future, killing all opposition. This is why she could cancell magic and different abilities from other people, as she did in her castle, and in the final battle. This is why she could look into someone's mind, see what they think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers(meaning that Sin would be fighting against himself AND Ultimecia merged together). Because she is so weak, right?Quote:
But before that 1000 years occurs, she only has power equivalent to any other sorceress. Her power is nothing compared to Sin and she would be annihilated. Thirdly, if you decide to include Hell's Judgement, you would be going by battle mechanics. And according to battle mechanics, Sin's Giga Graviton automatically kills anything. Ulti gets annihilated again.
Pupu, I know you hate FFVIII, but if you want to bash the game(or a character in it), you have to at least remember what happens in the game, or have a moderate knowledge about the character you are bashing.
My point isn't that Time Compression takes or doesn't take a thousand years or that she is more powerful than any other sorceress. My point is that she still is weak compared to Sin and that Ulti could never achieve Time Compression in a matter of minutes, maybe even seconds before Sin annihilates her.
Does Sin/Yu-Yevon even have a mind? And even if he did, Yu-Yevon's worst fear would probably be the Final Aeon, since it was one of the only known things that could kill Sin. But if Ulti's "Final Aeon" even were to defeat Sin, Yu-Yevon would take over the Final Aeon and he wouldn't technically be defeated, since he would still be alive. And I'm guessing that your proof of "canceling magic and abilities" came from her ability to take out 100 of a certain type of Magic. This is battle mechanics, again. You might as well say that she can pull apart 3 planets and meteor into earth as well with Great Attraction, which doesn't make sense.Quote:
This is why she could cancell magic and different abilities from other people, as she did in her castle, and in the final battle. This is why she could look into someone's mind, see what they think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers
Does this even make sense? Sin is just the body of Yu-Yevon merged with the Final Aeon. So it's actually a Yu-Yevon version of Sin versus an Ultimecia version of Sin. And once again, even if Ulti were to defeat Yu-Yevon's Sin, he would just take over the other Sin and we're right back where we started.Quote:
meaning that Sin would be fighting against himself AND Ultimecia merged together
FFVIII isn't as bad as Ultimecia herself. Oh, and also:Quote:
Pupu, I know you hate FFVIII, but if you want to bash the game(or a character in it), you have to at least remember what happens in the game, or have a moderate knowledge about the character you are bashing.
Quote:
PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
The Last Ultimecia is her true form, the human one is just a cover up.
1-Technically it's space and out, it's the time compression and Ultimecia sucking up the whole universe, void, and nothing exist, not even sin.
2-Sin's gigatron takes a while to attack, several turns, she makes her first move 'Sin has 1 HP remaining' then her last to finish it.
3-ok then, if your giga graviton kills off anything, then just bring Odin'FFVIII' and finishes off Sin in an instant.
Or better yet, Seifer, he kills Odin in an instant.
(And Seifer's not the strongest of bosses... but if you are overwhelmed about battle mechanix...)
As for Eden, you want to compare sizes?
Greiver's Shockwave Pulsar:cool: is pretty strong.:greenie:
As for your so called 1000 years, is impossible for her lifespawn to accomplish.
Another thing, she needed to have Elone to go further in the past to achieve it.
Took an instant. And time compression was acheive, and then Squall and co travelled in the futur, ect...
Here's a clip for you, about who's better between Ruby Vs Emerald, conclusion?....
1-Not quite pal, the planet gets destroyed, reson why Cloud and co must save it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo VolondéSin can't stop Meteor. So? It's not like Meteor can change course. Sin just flies out of its range. Meteor strikes the Planet instead, causing a wound in it, which is then healed by the Lifestream. InQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
FFVII, Meteor wasn't intended to destroy the Planet, just to draw the Lifestream to one point so it could be absorbed.
I'm not an expert on FFVIII's plot, so I may be disregarding plot points, but there's nothing to suggest Sin couldn't survive in space (if Ultimecia and Squall can bypass the problems of space being a vacuum and lack of oxygen then Sin certainly could). HP is a game mechanic; Ulty can't just siphon off Sin's HP with spells, she needs something to break through his armour. I don't know of any magic she would have access to that would be strong enough.Quote:
Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.
Doesn't sound like anything more powerful than what the Machina War (1000 years before the start of FFX) would've produced. And you all know how they fared against Sin.Quote:
A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower. Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.
Um, yes it is. "Machina" is just another word for "machine". FFXII's Bahamut is not an Esper, or any other kind of living organism.Quote:
Bahamut is not a machina
That point may be clear to someone who's finished XII, but it's not to me.Quote:
Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!
FFS, how many times do I have to say it? THE HYMN WEAKENS SIN AND MAKES HIM SLOWER THAN NORMAL. WITHOUT THE HYMN, HE CAN ATTACK IMMEDIATELY.Quote:
And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
No, other way around. Sin would crush them in an instant.Quote:
I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.
(Really want to debate this, the planet would get destroyed, ok.)
If it destroys the planet, then sin is destroyed along with it.
2-What I meant is that the real Ultimecia lives somewhere sin cannot go. (starting by futur)
She doesn't need to break it, time-compression destroys Sin.
3-Against Bahamut? Are you Crazy!? Bahamut Annihilates anything it wants to destroy. The Mega-Flare at full blast here is much stronger than sin's Giga Graviton. It's Bahamut that we are talking about here, not just some little power.
Bahamut IS NOT A MACHINA NOR A MACHINE!
To be a Machine, you need to have artificial intelligence to interact in the world being by it's own.
It's not a robot.
Bahamut is controlled by humans, so it makes it a Vessel or Airship, whatever you want to call it.
I did, Ifrit ship, surely throws Fire, so yeah, burn.
And yet Bahamut Ship is even Bigger than that.
We've seen Sin go on top of a tower, and my anylisist is that the Ifrit Ship alone is bigger than Sin, but not by too much, about 125%-180%. Yet Alexander ship is like 4-7 times the size of Ifrit. And Alexander is smaller than Bahamut.
Bahamut Ship is shaped like a huge tower. it has something like what, 2,4,7 thousand floors.
I'd say it's bigger than the DMC3 tower, where it goes up high, minus the lack of space on the DVD to create of of theses floors, forcing the game to ascent many stage.
I'm pretty sure, considering the speed of the weapons, could beat up sin.
I mean, if Tidus and Co could make a hole in it to enter, all other FF characters surely can do the same.
No the only reason Sin's Giga Gravatron took several times was because the Hyme of Faith allowed Jecht to hold off Yu Yevon. So yeah she would die before compressing time. Next Odin is battle pure battle mechanic it has NOTHING to do with Ultimecia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
The Last Ultimecia is her true form, the human one is just a cover up.
1-Technically it's space and out, it's the time compression and Ultimecia sucking up the whole universe, void, and nothing exist, not even sin.
2-Sin's gigatron takes a while to attack, several turns, she makes her first move 'Sin has 1 HP remaining' then her last to finish it.
3-ok then, if your giga graviton kills off anything, then just bring Odin'FFVIII' and finishes off Sin in an instant.
Or better yet, Seifer, he kills Odin in an instant.
(And Seifer's not the strongest of bosses... but if you are overwhelmed about battle mechanix...)
PuPu already said his point had nothing to do with thousands of years, just that time compression did take time. The time compression that Squall and Co. survived wasn't a full compression, she was compressing time DURING YOUR BATTLE, and if Squall and Co. could kill her fast enough, so could sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
No, no other party could hurt Sin like Tidus and Co., because Tidus and Co. had a personal connection with Jecht, the rest (including Ulti) lack this key advantage, so Sin would obliterate them with Giga Graviton.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion44441-Not quite pal, the planet gets destroyed, reson why Cloud and co must save it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo VolondéSin can't stop Meteor. So? It's not like Meteor can change course. Sin just flies out of its range. Meteor strikes the Planet instead, causing a wound in it, which is then healed by the Lifestream. InQuote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
FFVII, Meteor wasn't intended to destroy the Planet, just to draw the Lifestream to one point so it could be absorbed.
I'm not an expert on FFVIII's plot, so I may be disregarding plot points, but there's nothing to suggest Sin couldn't survive in space (if Ultimecia and Squall can bypass the problems of space being a vacuum and lack of oxygen then Sin certainly could). HP is a game mechanic; Ulty can't just siphon off Sin's HP with spells, she needs something to break through his armour. I don't know of any magic she would have access to that would be strong enough.Quote:
Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.
Doesn't sound like anything more powerful than what the Machina War (1000 years before the start of FFX) would've produced. And you all know how they fared against Sin.Quote:
A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower. Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.
Um, yes it is. "Machina" is just another word for "machine". FFXII's Bahamut is not an Esper, or any other kind of living organism.Quote:
Bahamut is not a machina
That point may be clear to someone who's finished XII, but it's not to me.Quote:
Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!
FFS, how many times do I have to say it? THE HYMN WEAKENS SIN AND MAKES HIM SLOWER THAN NORMAL. WITHOUT THE HYMN, HE CAN ATTACK IMMEDIATELY.Quote:
And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
No, other way around. Sin would crush them in an instant.Quote:
I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.
(Really want to debate this, the planet would get destroyed, ok.)
If it destroys the planet, then sin is destroyed along with it.
2-What I meant is that the real Ultimecia lives somewhere sin cannot go. (starting by futur)
She doesn't need to break it, time-compression destroys Sin.
3-Against Bahamut? Are you Crazy!? Bahamut Annihilates anything it wants to destroy. The Mega-Flare at full blast here is much stronger than sin's Giga Graviton. It's Bahamut that we are talking about here, not just some little power.
Bahamut IS NOT A MACHINA NOR A MACHINE!
To be a Machine, you need to have artificial intelligence to interact in the world being by it's own.
It's not a robot.
Bahamut is controlled by humans, so it makes it a Vessel or Airship, whatever you want to call it.
I did, Ifrit ship, surely throws Fire, so yeah, burn.
And yet Bahamut Ship is even Bigger than that.
We've seen Sin go on top of a tower, and my anylisist is that the Ifrit Ship alone is bigger than Sin, but not by too much, about 125%-180%. Yet Alexander ship is like 4-7 times the size of Ifrit. And Alexander is smaller than Bahamut.
Bahamut Ship is shaped like a huge tower. it has something like what, 2,4,7 thousand floors.
I'd say it's bigger than the DMC3 tower, where it goes up high, minus the lack of space on the DVD to create of of theses floors, forcing the game to ascent many stage.
I'm pretty sure, considering the speed of the weapons, could beat up sin.
I mean, if Tidus and Co could make a hole in it to enter, all other FF characters surely can do the same.
The Planet's destruction was merely an unfortunate side-effect of Sephiroth's actual goal. When Meteor struck the Planet, the Lifestream would gather at the wound to try and heal it. Sephiroth would be waiting there, and absorb the Lifestream. Without the Lifestream to heal it, Meteor's assault would be fatal. However, if Sin killed Sephiroth, the Lifestream would do its job, and heal the Planet. So both the Planet and Sin would survive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Couldn't Sin could just destroy Ultimecia when she was in the past or present? Time travel is always tricky to try to work out. Incidentally, the first post specified that it's a 1-on-1 fight, so I don't think Time Compression counts as 'beating' Sin.Quote:
2-What I meant is that the real Ultimecia lives somewhere sin cannot go. (starting by futur)
She doesn't need to break it, time-compression destroys Sin.
It doesn't want to destroy anything. It's an inaminate object.Quote:
3-Against Bahamut? Are you Crazy!? Bahamut Annihilates anything it wants to destroy.
Giga Gravitron is gravity based, meaning it doesn't rely on brute force. It cannot be compared to a mere airship attack. Even if it is powered by nethicite.Quote:
The Mega-Flare at full blast here is much stronger than sin's Giga Graviton. It's Bahamut that we are talking about here, not just some little power.
No, you're getting mixed up between a machine and a robot. Unless all the machina used in Operation Mi'ihen are no more sentient than the Sky Fortress. And just for the record:Quote:
Bahamut IS NOT A MACHINA NOR A MACHINE!
To be a Machine, you need to have artificial intelligence to interact in the world being by it's own.
It's not a robot. Bahamut is controlled by humans, so it makes it a Vessel or Airship, whatever you want to call it.
From the dictionary.Quote:
Airship:A self-propelled, lighter-than-air aircraft with means of controlling the direction of flight; dirigible.
Aircraft: Any machine supported for flight in the air by buoyancy or by the dynamic action of air on its surfaces, esp. powered airplanes, gliders, and helicopters.
Poetic, but severely lacking in an actual point.Quote:
I did, Ifrit ship, surely throws Fire, so yeah, burn.
Well, according to my analysis, I'm right and you're wrong. :p Evidence would be appreciated. Even so, size isn't everything.Quote:
And yet Bahamut Ship is even Bigger than that. We've seen Sin go on top of a tower, and my anylisist is that the Ifrit Ship alone is bigger than Sin, but not by too much, about 125%-180%. Yet Alexander ship is like 4-7 times the size of Ifrit. And Alexander is smaller than Bahamut.
Bahamut Ship is shaped like a huge tower. it has something like what, 2,4,7 thousand floors.
I'd say it's bigger than the DMC3 tower, where it goes up high, minus the lack of space on the DVD to create of of theses floors, forcing the game to ascent many stage.
Sin is infinitely more powerful than the Weapons, and extremely fast without the Hymn or Jecht's will slowing it downQuote:
I'm pretty sure, considering the speed of the weapons, could beat up sin.
No FF character knows Jecht. Basically what GB said.Quote:
I mean, if Tidus and Co could make a hole in it to enter, all other FF characters surely can do the same.
The fact whether IF Ultimecia was absorbing the universe is arguable. If the FFVIII characters could exist, then Sin could too.Quote:
1-Technically it's space and out, it's the time compression and Ultimecia sucking up the whole universe, void, and nothing exist, not even sin.
Once again, Giga Graviton only took time to charge because the Hymn of the Fayth and Jecht held him back.Quote:
2-Sin's gigatron takes a while to attack, several turns, she makes her first move 'Sin has 1 HP remaining' then her last to finish it.
Why would Odin come into this fight? This has nothing to do with what we are talking about.Quote:
3-ok then, if your giga graviton kills off anything, then just bring Odin'FFVIII' and finishes off Sin in an instant.
Or better yet, Seifer, he kills Odin in an instant.
(And Seifer's not the strongest of bosses... but if you are overwhelmed about battle mechanix...)
There is no proof that Shockwave Pulsar can instantly kill anything like Giga Graviton can.Quote:
As for Eden, you want to compare sizes?
Greiver's Shockwave Pulsar:cool: is pretty strong.:greenie:
Again, what does this have to do with anything in this thread?Quote:
OK, First, the only way Squall and Co could survive and travel in time, in time compression was because...
Laguna: As friends, believe in one another.
As friends, love one another, believe in there existance and they'll believe in yours.
It's all about Love, Courage and Friendship.
By doing so, it was the only thing they could do to survive in time compression, and sin is the embodiment of none of that.
HAHAHA
You really wanted to debate the meteor...
Lucrecia/Shelke: Omega is the same type of lifeform as the weapons we encoutered 3 years ago. Normally, Omega poses no threat, it only manifest itself when the planet detects something that may cause a danger.
The reason why the planet has weapons is to defend itself.
Without Aeris' Holy Materia that absorbed the Meteor, the planet would have been destroyed.
Or, if you so insist, without the holy materia of Aeris, the planet would have been drained of it's life force and died anyway.
Without Aeris' Holy Materia the planet would have been destroyed.
GOErly? Then why when you use scan her it says that she is absorbing time existance as during the battle?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Anyway, that is beside the point. The point this thread asked for a 1 on 1 battle, in which Sin would crush her.
now im just saying....
what if vayne used nethictie on sin.
Im pretty sure sin would be obliterated.
So, there you go.
You asked me if another vilain could beat Sin, and they could.
There's no use trying to deny that fact.
But what should have been written is if another vilain could overpower Sin in versus Combat. Based on Size and force display abilities without the game mechanic of battle of the game.
Then, I'd say no to maybe.
Except for Bahamut who's technically not a villain.
I'd go with Omega Weapon, Or another weapon from FFVII.
As for Machines who could destroy Sin, either SHINRA's military cannon or FFXII's Bahamut. 'oh and by the way, there attacks proved to be one hit kills too'
FFVII's Weapons are pretty good in durability but their overall offensive capabilities suck.
The damage Saphire was taking was impressive but when it finally attacked with a charged beam of energy, it wasn't anything I'd say that could pierce Sin's barrier.
I'd personally say FFIX Odin could take Saphire and most of the Weapons we saw in FFVII but he couldn't take Sin.
Anyone who can seize control of Vegnagun becomes able to completely obliterate the world (and therefore Sin), thus I say Shuyin. Or any other nut at Vegnagun's helm. Kefka might stand a chance with his Light Of Judgement, or so I was thinking until I remembered Operation Mi'hen. There are some valid points about Zemus being in with a damn good chance, but nobody likes a stalemate... then again he could mainpulate Golbez (or someone else) into getting a buncha people to sing Hymn Of The Fayth, assuming he manages to dive into a mind that knows about it, and if he's here for a deathmatch with Sin, odds are they'll be in Spira.
Wait, is Vegnagun meant to be destroying the world in that "bad" ending?S
Problem with Vegnagun is that it was never tested against Sin. It might not work too well :p
Just you know, Sin doesn't HAVE to take a long amount of time to charge Giga Graviton because Sin can charge Giga Graviton VERY quickly when needed. There is an evidence for this. Look at the cutscene in FFX of Sin using Giga Gravition against the dark village (forget the name) and it didn't take long for Sin to use it. AND when we were fighting against Sin, it took Sin a long time to use GG. Plus, if Sin casted a powerful protect spell around it, then it's almost impossible to break it.
The effects of Giga Gravtion are used in a radius. Quite a big radius, there's NO way that FF villains can dodge if they were in that radius at the exact second when Sin used GG because it's extremely fast.
Also, it's impossible to find out if it's ACTUALLY charging GG. We only found out about that because of the top message on your screen, telling you when is Sin gonna use Giga Gravition. But in reality, it doesn't tell you. Meaning, it's pointless for FF villains to dogde all the time worrying if SIn is going to use GG.
Even if Sin dies, it will be reborn again.
Other villains are very small, compared to Sin. So none of them can beat Sin, it would be a miracle if they did.
By SHINRA's military cannon, do you mean the Junon Cannon or the Sister Ray? Junon cannon is a no. Sister Ray probably could though, since it skewered Diamond WEAPON and destroyed Sephiroth's barrier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Also, I still don't understand your argument or proof as to how Sky Fortress Bahamut could defeat Sin.
Aren't you the one who said Ultimecia could just reduce Sin's HP to 1?Quote:
But what should have been written is if another vilain could overpower Sin in versus Combat. Based on Size and force display abilities without the game mechanic of battle of the game.
Then, I'd say no to maybe.
Besides, Giga Graviton is not just battle mechanics. We've seen Sin use it outside of battle and cause lots of destruction with it. Ultimecia's Hell's Judgement only appeared in battle, so it's power can only be judged by battle mechanics.
What proof? The fact that they can kill something in one hit does not mean they can kill anything in one hit.Quote:
'oh and by the way, there attacks proved to be one hit kills too'
But I thought that Sin only gets reborn if you use the Final Aeon to kill it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
Size doesn't really doesn't have that much influence on power. After all, Yu-Yevon himself is pretty small too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
When Sin is destroyed, Yevon possesses the nearest Aeon That aeon is made into a new Sin.
If there is no Aeon to possess, I have no idea what happens to him.
At the end of X, when you have defeated your Aeons, Yu-Yevon in his true form fights your party. It's impossible to gauge his strength, since you have Auto-Life on at the time, but since he relies on possessing aeons to fight, he's probably pretty weak.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
sephiroth, when you firght him in north crater just after you beat jenova and hojo...i hate his crab legs so much, his supernova beat me after about 45 turns, got turned into damn frogs and ran out of mp and items :( he could easily beat sin with a couple of supernovas, and maybe metora!
Lets add the huge amount of HP of Sin into the equation if we're talking about battle moves and mechanics.
Plus the fact that Sephiroth dies from a single attack from Cloud. And Sin is only about a thousand times more powerful than Cloud.
Yeah, and Sephiroth is only about a thousand times more powerful than Cloud too. But he lost to Cloud in that fight of AC, because he wasn't even trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
You have been told this several times, but never seem to get it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalYeah, and Sephiroth is only about a thousand times more powerful than Cloud too. But he lost to Cloud in that fight of AC, because he wasn't even trying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
Him not trying means his attacks and speed are weaker, but he should be able to take the same amount of hurt, if Mike Tyson was joking around and let me fight him without instantly dying, sure I would survive, but I wouldn't be able to go "BOOM HEADSHOT!" like Cloud did.
And what would happen, if he decided to create a barrier like the one in the Northern Crater, or even more powerful than it, to protect himself? Do you think Sin could esily destroy it, before Seph use the Negative Lifestream to blast Sin with an attack with the same power of the Sister Ray(remember that the cannon was using the power of the Lifestream)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Seriously dude, Sephiroth is not just a guy with a sword.
And you still didn't show me where I insulted you, in that other post.
Considering Giga Graviton looks to be just as strong as the Sister Ray, yes, also considering the power of Sin's own barrier yes, I do think Sin would win.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalAnd what would happen, if he decided to create a barrier like the one in the Northern Crater, or even more powerful than it, to protect himself? Do you think Sin could esily destroy it, before Seph use the Negative Lifestream to blast Sin with an attack with the same power of the Sister Ray(remember that the cannon was using the power of the Lifestream)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboko
Seriously dude, Sephiroth is not just a guy with a sword.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPuBy SHINRA's military cannon, do you mean the Junon Cannon or the Sister Ray? Junon cannon is a no. Sister Ray probably could though, since it skewered Diamond WEAPON and destroyed Sephiroth's barrier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperion4444
Also, I still don't understand your argument or proof as to how Sky Fortress Bahamut could defeat Sin.
Aren't you the one who said Ultimecia could just reduce Sin's HP to 1?Quote:
But what should have been written is if another vilain could overpower Sin in versus Combat. Based on Size and force display abilities without the game mechanic of battle of the game.
Then, I'd say no to maybe.
Besides, Giga Graviton is not just battle mechanics. We've seen Sin use it outside of battle and cause lots of destruction with it. Ultimecia's Hell's Judgement only appeared in battle, so it's power can only be judged by battle mechanics.
What proof? The fact that they can kill something in one hit does not mean they can kill anything in one hit.Quote:
'oh and by the way, there attacks proved to be one hit kills too'
But I thought that Sin only gets reborn if you use the Final Aeon to kill it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
Size doesn't really doesn't have that much influence on power. After all, Yu-Yevon himself is pretty small too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Serapy
1-Sister Ray. (Diamonds are forever, almost...)
2-read more carefully ''without the gameplay mechanix'', then it's no.
3-Instant destruction such of the likes of Odin in FFVIII.
If you use the Battle Mechanix into play, then many Vilains could easily beat Sin.
Sin has what, 4 000HP, it's actually quite low.
I know for a fact that I kill off Jeckt in 1 hit with Auron. ''a hit more since he hits 99 999 and missing 1 hp''