What FF Villains Could Beat Sin?S

[Goldenboko]

Sephiroth: His use of the sword would be useless, and "Turning the earth into his vessal" never actually occurred Crystal, deal with it. Not to mention that would be totally useless in a 1-1 fight anyway.

Sin can't hit Sephiroth, because of his insane speed(equal to Chaos Vincent, Omega Weiss, and DBZ characters) and intangibility(the power of the J-cells).

The Lifestream destroyed the Northern Crater barrier, it destroyed everything(buildings and etc) in it's way to stop Meteor(this was explained in "On a Way to a Smile"), AND destroyed Meteor itself.

.........Sephiroth can controll this Lifestream and make it cover the sky in seconds and attack anything he want. It's like a more powerfull version of the Light of Judgement.

He is at least in the same level of friggin Omega Weapon, because "there is nothing above him". Omega IS a vessel to all the energy of the planet. And Seph is at least EQUAL to her/it.

Yes, Sephiroth can transform the planet in a vessel, "deal with it".

And IMO, he have a good chance against Sin. It's my opinion, and you will have to "deal with it" too.

Insane speed doesn't really matter, because as soon as he charges in BOOM Giga Graviton, and no he can't dodge that.

As for the "More powerful light of judgement" thing, if that was true, Cloud would've died from that.

PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2

[Raebus]

Have we ever seen sephiroth ever do any of that crap you just mentioned? You can't base sephiroth's speed on the game because he's just as fast as the other characters in battle and it's turn based so its hard to tell, heck if you're comparing it to cloud when they fought together then your comparing a high level to a level 1. His movements are exaggerated in the film like every other damn character. The life stream attacking anything it wants? Where have we seen this besides the film where every action is exaggerated?

WHEN HAS SEPHIROTH USED THE PLANET AS A VESSEL SUCCESSFULLY OR PROVED HE COULD BEYOND WORDS.

[PuPu]

It's arguable if Seph is actually able to use the planet as a vessel, since Aeris controls a good amount of Lifestream as well. But we all know that he was never able to accomplish that feat, since Cloud defeated him in AC before he could.

But again, turning the planet into a vessel doesn't really mean anything in a fight. But controlling half of the planet's energy and being able to contain Holy is something that says he might be powerful enough to beat Sin.

[Darth Tjador]

sephy would becuz is the bomb and strong

[Hyperion4444]

I think pretty much any villain could defeat it.

Sephiroth: Did anyone forgot he summoned one major Meteor, if that were to hit 'Sin's hard Shell' even he would be defeated, considering the holy materia is not there to protect it.

Ultimecia: She tries to make time-compression, and only she can exist in such a world... so technically, sin wouldn't exist anymore and such defeated.

Vayne: Well, he's got Bahamut Super Sized Ship. Yeah.

[Wolf Kanno]

@ Wolf Kanno: Attacks like Big Bang, Particle Beam, Ultima, Supernova, etc. are game mechanics because the animation is exaggerated. It causes massive explosions, but does not blast your party into tiny little pieces. GG's effect is exactly what the animation suggests: the party is crushed by an unblockable attack. Try casting Auto-Life in that battle and letting Sin use GG. Did you party survive? No, they didn't. This is because GG is more than a mere game mechanic. It's in the same boat as LoJ

I don't use game mechanics because they have to follow certain rules which are unrealistic to the logic of the situation. I won't deny that Sin's GG couldn't do that type of irreversible damage to your party cause realistically, it would vaporize them to dust (Logically, you would think auto-life requires your body to be somewhat intact in order to work? ). I wanted to base power on what we see within the game's story. Basically, Sin could cause mass damage with GG that could level cities and perhaps even mountains. His massive bulk within the sea causes tsunami's, not to mention his rarely seen Sin Spawn could deal with smaller threats. A normal human being hit with that kinda've power couldn't possibly survive.

My point is, I feel it's incredibly powerful but I won't follow it's rule of being unblockable instant death. Because the ability is used on being of an inferior power. Sin is dealing with threats on an equal standing with it in their respective games. The fact that the Final Aeon is enough to temporarily destroy it proves that it's special attacks are not nearly omnipotent. Logic basically destroys game mechanic credibility. Of course I'm not accusing you of saying GG is invincible but I'm using it as an example of how in game mechanics differ from story. I seriously don't think Trance Kuja's Ultima is invincible either but I'm certain it's quite powerful just like Sin's Giga Galvatron is powerful as well.

[The Crystal]

Insane speed doesn't really matter, because as soon as he charges in BOOM Giga Graviton, and no he can't dodge that.

You forgot he can turn intangible too, or create a barrier even more powerful than the one in the Northern Crater.

As for the "More powerful light of judgement" thing, if that was true, Cloud would've died from that.

Yeah, but Seph didn't want to kill Cloud in one attack. He wanted to make Cloud suffer.

PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2

And I love how you accuse me of something I never did. Where is the insult? Show me.



My point in this thread is:

Sephiroth = Omega Weapon = most of the Lifestream in the planet = power of a god. How I know that? Because "there is nothing stronger, nothing above him".

Sorry, but I still believe Seph have a good chance against Sin.

[Firo Volondé]

@ Raebus: He claimed he could, and he was either telling the truth, overestimating himself, or bluffing. I don't see any reason why he would bluff; if he was trying to torment Cloud, he surely would have done it after Cloud had been disarmed; he wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating Cloud twice. Overestimating himself seems more likely, but I doubt it, since he was able to hold back Holy using his will alone, and did control some of the Lifestream.

@ Hyperion4444: Sephiroth and Ultimecia both have to charge those attacks. While they were waiting, Sin would crush them like ants.
And as for Vayne? Sin 1, Machina 0

@ Wolf Kanno: I agree with you, I was just making sure you didn't write off Sin's power. The problem is, most villains' attacks are similarly untested, so it's difficult to compare them in a one-on-one fight.
@ The Crystal: In Gaia, there is no Kefka, Kuja, Sin etc., so being the most powerful in that world is nothing special.

[Hyperion4444]

@ Raebus: He claimed he could, and he was either telling the truth, overestimating himself, or bluffing. I don't see any reason why he would bluff; if he was trying to torment Cloud, he surely would have done it after Cloud had been disarmed; he wouldn't make the mistake of underestimating Cloud twice. Overestimating himself seems more likely, but I doubt it, since he was able to hold back Holy using his will alone, and did control some of the Lifestream.

@ Hyperion4444: Sephiroth and Ultimecia both have to charge those attacks. While they were waiting, Sin would crush them like ants.
And as for Vayne? Sin 1, Machina 0

@ Wolf Kanno: I agree with you, I was just making sure you didn't write off Sin's power. The problem is, most villains' attacks are similarly untested, so it's difficult to compare them in a one-on-one fight.
@ The Crystal: In Gaia, there is no Kefka, Kuja, Sin etc., so being the most powerful in that world is nothing special.

Sephiroth summoned meteor, either he lives or not, the meteor still hits ''btw, he said could defeat sin, didn't said he could defeat vuce versa, if Sephiroth tries to take it on with the masumune, then he's dead''
But it's the meteor that defeats it.

Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.

A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower.
Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.
Bahamut is not a machina
Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!


And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.
I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.

[PuPu]

Sephiroth summoned meteor, either he lives or not, the meteor still hits ''btw, he said could defeat sin, didn't said he could defeat vuce versa, if Sephiroth tries to take it on with the masumune, then he's dead''
But it's the meteor that defeats it.

Sephiroth summoning Meteor shouldn't even count. He had to use the Black Materia in order to use Meteor, not out of his own power. Anybody could have probably done the same thing if he or she had the Black Materia.

Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.

Okay...

First off, Ultimecia does NOT live in space. She lives in a castle in the future. That's where all your characters went to go fight her in the end of the game. Secondly, it takes a long time for Time Compression to occur; my guess is over 1000 years. But before that 1000 years occurs, she only has power equivalent to any other sorceress. Her power is nothing compared to Sin and she would be annihilated. Thirdly, if you decide to include Hell's Judgement, you would be going by battle mechanics. And according to battle mechanics, Sin's Giga Graviton automatically kills anything. Ulti gets annihilated again.

By the way, there is no way to really tell whether Eden could annihilate Sin. After all, the only thing we have to judge Eden with is Eternal Breath, which doesn't actually destroy the galaxy.

And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.

And as said before, it was because of the Hymn of the Faith and Jecht holding back Yu-Yevon that made Sin wait before using Giga Graviton.

[Firo Volondé]

Sephiroth summoned meteor, either he lives or not, the meteor still hits ''btw, he said could defeat sin, didn't said he could defeat vuce versa, if Sephiroth tries to take it on with the masumune, then he's dead''
But it's the meteor that defeats it.

Sin can't stop Meteor. So? It's not like Meteor can change course. Sin just flies out of its range. Meteor strikes the Planet instead, causing a wound in it, which is then healed by the Lifestream. In
FFVII, Meteor wasn't intended to destroy the Planet, just to draw the Lifestream to one point so it could be absorbed.

Ultimecia lives in space, sin can't attack her, and she can do whatever she wants. She acheives her goal, all other existance denied, no more sin, and even in a 1vs1, she cast her spell and sin has 1 hp remaining, finishes sin off before he can attack. Maybe the same for Sephi.
BTW: I'm pretty sure that Eden GF would annihilate Sin.

I'm not an expert on FFVIII's plot, so I may be disregarding plot points, but there's nothing to suggest Sin couldn't survive in space (if Ultimecia and Squall can bypass the problems of space being a vacuum and lack of oxygen then Sin certainly could). HP is a game mechanic; Ulty can't just siphon off Sin's HP with spells, she needs something to break through his armour. I don't know of any magic she would have access to that would be strong enough.

A puny army of weakly cavalry couldn't even dream of scratching the likes of sin.
But the mighty Bahamut, Lord of the Skys, annihilates huge ships in 1 hit. Boost Power to maximum, without the pesky vaan and co reducing the power of it at the tower. Well, you all know how strong Bahamut is. It can and would destroy sin's shell.

Doesn't sound like anything more powerful than what the Machina War (1000 years before the start of FFX) would've produced. And you all know how they fared against Sin.

Bahamut is not a machina

Um, yes it is. "Machina" is just another word for "machine". FFXII's Bahamut is not an Esper, or any other kind of living organism.

Bahamut is not a ship, and that ship did pierce the shield to be destroyed after, but bahamut hid itself behind Alexander.
And even the Ifrit Ship is 400x times bigger than that puny ship. Burn!

That point may be clear to someone who's finished XII, but it's not to me.

And Also!
Sin Also needs to charge it's attack and takes a longer while than any other ff boss.

FFS, how many times do I have to say it? THE HYMN WEAKENS SIN AND MAKES HIM SLOWER THAN NORMAL. WITHOUT THE HYMN, HE CAN ATTACK IMMEDIATELY.

I'm also sure that any OmegaFFVII/FFVIII-Ruby-Emerald weapon could beat that boss in an instant.

No, other way around. Sin would crush them in an instant.

[Forsaken Lover]

It. Was. Not. Space.

We are flat out TOLD and SHOWN Squall can't breathe or move in space. or was the whole "gotta save Rinoa in space suit before we both die" lost on everyone?

The place you fight Ultimecia in her final form is just some random black void.

It'sa as much space as Safer Sephiroth fights you all in some Heaven.

It has no storyline or plot significance unless you can tell me any quotes made on the subject?

[Jessweeee♪]

I'm a total FFX fangirl, so of course I'm going to say nothing can beat Sin n.n

Sin couldn't be defeated until Jecht came into the picture. He became Sin (though he still had some control over him at the end of the game, so we can say that Sin wasn't even at his full strength), then Auron brought over Tidus, and then he fell in lurve with Yuna, and they were like, YA! LOVE CONQUERS ALL!

Sin could only be defeated when Jecht was still somewhat himself, that way they could use the Hymn to ambush him and kill him from the inside out!

Sin's practically immortal.

(most definitely practically immortal)

[The Crystal]

The Crystal: In Gaia, there is no Kefka, Kuja, Sin etc., so being the most powerful in that world is nothing special.

Yeah, but in Gaia we have the Weapons, Chaos Vincent, Omega Weapon, Zirconiade, the Lifestream and everything it can do, and (SPOILER)Goddess Minerva, the personification of the planet itself.

With exception of the Weapons, each one of these guys/girls/things can destroy everything in the planet. In power, they aren't behind Kefka, Kuja, Sin, etc.

Secondly, it takes a long time for Time Compression to occur; my guess is over 1000 years.

Oh yeah, Ultimecia would begun TC just to die before it was completed(because it take 1000 years like you said, and soreceresses have the life spam of a normal human). That make so much sense.

But before that 1000 years occurs, she only has power equivalent to any other sorceress. Her power is nothing compared to Sin and she would be annihilated. Thirdly, if you decide to include Hell's Judgement, you would be going by battle mechanics. And according to battle mechanics, Sin's Giga Graviton automatically kills anything. Ulti gets annihilated again.

"She only has power equivalent to any other sorceress". This is why she conquered the entire world in her future, killing all opposition. This is why she could cancell magic and different abilities from other people, as she did in her castle, and in the final battle. This is why she could look into someone's mind, see what they think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers(meaning that Sin would be fighting against himself AND Ultimecia merged together). Because she is so weak, right?

Pupu, I know you hate FFVIII, but if you want to bash the game(or a character in it), you have to at least remember what happens in the game, or have a moderate knowledge about the character you are bashing.

[PuPu]

My point isn't that Time Compression takes or doesn't take a thousand years or that she is more powerful than any other sorceress. My point is that she still is weak compared to Sin and that Ulti could never achieve Time Compression in a matter of minutes, maybe even seconds before Sin annihilates her.

This is why she could cancell magic and different abilities from other people, as she did in her castle, and in the final battle. This is why she could look into someone's mind, see what they think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers

Does Sin/Yu-Yevon even have a mind? And even if he did, Yu-Yevon's worst fear would probably be the Final Aeon, since it was one of the only known things that could kill Sin. But if Ulti's "Final Aeon" even were to defeat Sin, Yu-Yevon would take over the Final Aeon and he wouldn't technically be defeated, since he would still be alive. And I'm guessing that your proof of "canceling magic and abilities" came from her ability to take out 100 of a certain type of Magic. This is battle mechanics, again. You might as well say that she can pull apart 3 planets and meteor into earth as well with Great Attraction, which doesn't make sense.

meaning that Sin would be fighting against himself AND Ultimecia merged together

Does this even make sense? Sin is just the body of Yu-Yevon merged with the Final Aeon. So it's actually a Yu-Yevon version of Sin versus an Ultimecia version of Sin. And once again, even if Ulti were to defeat Yu-Yevon's Sin, he would just take over the other Sin and we're right back where we started.

Pupu, I know you hate FFVIII, but if you want to bash the game(or a character in it), you have to at least remember what happens in the game, or have a moderate knowledge about the character you are bashing.

FFVIII isn't as bad as Ultimecia herself. Oh, and also:

PS- I love how you've given up debating and taken in insults, it really makes you look awesome. :rolleyes2