Progress; truly something you don't see everyday in America.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/05/15/same.sex.marriage/index.html
Printable View
Progress; truly something you don't see everyday in America.
http://edition.cnn.com/2008/US/05/15/same.sex.marriage/index.html
That is fantastic.
good, the first to begin the domino effect.
im all for this its about time these bible smurfing losers realize that anyone can do about anything they want because no one gives a :skull::skull::skull::skull: about "the true path"
I think that's a step in the right direction, but it's going to do more than just ruffle a few feathers on the peacocks.
Don't tell my mother! =X
I love California, first weed, now same sex, next THE WORLD!
My friend is dating a guy from California. He'll be pleased to hear this. xP
I actually just saw this on the comcast page. I'm very happy to see this happen and I'm hoping other states will start to do the same.
Oh boy, how long till those Greensboro fanatics start protesting...
Arnold and Bush are no longer BFFs.
What the hell? Do you think it's only strict conservative Christians that don't agree with homosexuality? Not only that, there are some Christians that still support same-sex marriages, like myself. Get off your high horse and stop acting like an ass, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengir
Anyway, it's about time some progress was made. Let's just hope it spreads.
My same sex Catholic husband agrees that you can be religious without being a tool. :P
Haha, my grandmother was running a petition to keep marriages between two sexes in California about a month ago. :D
Hoorah?
The second half of your post was already commented on, so I removed itQuote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengir
as for that part... Massachusetts has had same sex marriage for awhile now. So they'd be second.
THE JACKEL
no!!!! i will continue to be an ass (sips beer)... its my thing:rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiWhat the hell? Do you think it's only strict conservative Christians that don't agree with homosexuality? Not only that, there are some Christians that still support same-sex marriages, like myself. Get off your high horse and stop acting like an ass, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengir
Anyway, it's about time some progress was made. Let's just hope it spreads.
i know that there are christians the are for gay marriage its just that the conservatives are the one who cause the most :skull::skull::skull::skull:, so they need to be smacked down first. figure it out that what they think is right isnt necessarily right for everyone else. im of the evolved position that anyone can do whatever the smurf they want as long as they dont try to force it on me. you personally can believe that the gays will burn in hell for all eternity but you have no right to try to disrupt their path to happiness.
anyway i agree this is progress. thats what i meant by domino. the hardest part of the journey is taking the first step.
Whatever. Nevertheless, calling Christians a bunch of 'bible smurfing idiots' is probably the most thickheaded generalization I've heard in a very long time. Think before you post, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengirno!!!! i will continue to be an ass (sips beer)... its my thing:rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiWhat the hell? Do you think it's only strict conservative Christians that don't agree with homosexuality? Not only that, there are some Christians that still support same-sex marriages, like myself. Get off your high horse and stop acting like an ass, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengir
Anyway, it's about time some progress was made. Let's just hope it spreads.
i know that there are christians the are for gay marriage its just that the conservatives are the one who cause the most :skull::skull::skull::skull:, so they need to be smacked down first. figure it out that what they think is right isnt necessarily right for everyone else. im of the evolved position that anyone can do whatever the smurf they want as long as they dont try to force it on me. you personally can believe that the gays will burn in hell for all eternity but you have no right to try to disrupt their path to happiness.
i didn't call all christians that. just the fanatics. you know the worthless ones that havent figured out that no one cares what they think except for those who feel the same way. many people of all creeds and standings are truly intelligent and thoughtful people but there is always the exception to the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
now then truce?
Fine. This thread's been blown way off-topic anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengiri didn't call all christians that. just the fanatics. you know the worthless ones that havent figured out that no one cares what they think except for those who feel the same way. many people of all creeds and standings are truly intelligent and thoughtful people but there is always the exception to the rule.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
now then truce?
Now kiss and make up, you two.
Oh, hahaha, I get it. xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Kentarou
yeah. sadly this is the most relationship-ish thing ive have for about a month
so yes the lovers spat is over
Same here! :monster:
It's over. America is finished.
I realize the issue has been resolved, but Namelessfengir the swear filters are here for a reason and we do NOT permit the general insulting of a large group of people. There are any number of ways you could have stated your opinion without resorting to swearing and general offensiveness. In the future, please employ these options if you wish to voice your opinion on a topic.
For allowing Gay Marriages in California or our youth having ridiculously poor relationships in the last month as indicated by this thread?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
At the risk of sounding cheesy: I feel slightly better about the world I live in.
Well, this is good news indeed. I have my fair share of gripes and disagreements with the US legal system, but it can't be faulted for its occasional bouts of judicial activism like this. It's good to know that Governor Schwarzenegger won't be supporting any constitutional amendments that'd try to overturn court's decision.
Predictably uninformed response from the fundies though:
"Objective"... I do not think it means what he thinks it means. It's hardly an objective interpretation if the courts subscribe to the viewpoint of select religious groups, and deny equal rights to people of all faiths on that basis.Quote:
Originally Posted by some tard
It's this kind of "legislating from the bench" which led to the downfall of racial segregation four decades ago, and it's good to see it happening again to do away with another antiquated, discriminatory practice.
Besides, it's not like the state is gonna be forcing churches to marry same-sex couples, so the religious practices and beliefs of individuals shouldn't be affected.
This is absolutely great news!
Absolutely made my day when I read it yesterday.
Great. Our country is officially screwed.
Good news.
All the problems caused by those ignorant Christians are finally coming to an end. Wipe em out. Thats what I say.
(SPOILER)Teeheeheee :p Only playin
You know I support this 100% but I do want to know what the topic is implying:
"Okay to be gay in California" implies that California had anti, say, buggery laws in place that were struck down when same-sex marriage was legal? That's how I'm viewing the two statements (title and topic).
Or failing that, prior to same-sex marriages being legal in California was it also illegal to be gay in California? I was under the impression that places like San Francisco had high demographics of homosexuals.
I could go on, but I'm trying to figure out what the topic claim has anything to do with anything. Does it mean because it's explicitly legal suddenly it's okay? Because we all know that just because it's illegal doesn't mean it's wrong.
Yeah, nitpicking. Forget I said anything. Huzzah! *celebrates*
:kaoupset:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
You may have been playing, but here's a little something that people can educate themselves with before they make such stupid ignorant remarks (and mean it), for future reference.
Skimmed the article. Seems like all Christianity doctrines have done is say that homosexuality is okay as long as you don't have sex. Um...Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji:kaoupset:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
You may have been playing, but here's a little something that people can educate themselves with before they make such stupid ignorant remarks (and mean it), for future reference.
Not only that, but if you read the other religions, some punish homosexuality by execution. It clearly proves Christianity isn't the only religion against it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PureghettoSkimmed the article. Seems like all Christianity doctrines have done is say that homosexuality is okay as long as you don't have sex. Um...Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji:kaoupset:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
You may have been playing, but here's a little something that people can educate themselves with before they make such stupid ignorant remarks (and mean it), for future reference.
Yes so, what's the point then? Are you saying that singling out Christianity because it's anti-homosexual isn't addressing the problem?
No, I'm just saying it's unfair to pick on just one religion. :kaoupset:
How about raping 4 year old girls. Are you okay with that as long as no one does it to you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Namelessfengir
(that's a rhetorical question by the way. Lets see if you get it.)
The world (especially liberals in all their tolerance...) mostly hates Christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
Get used to it sister!
Edit by Psychotic: Hey there, please don't double post. Use the edit/delete button if you want to say many things in quick succession. Thanks a bunch!
Jussie-boo isn't a sister. :D
But yeah, you don't need to automatically go after Christians. If every Christian believed everything the Bible taught them, they'd all have, like, 30 kids. It's the individual belief that sucks.
This is the kind of thing you can focus your hate on, though. You know, people who are so stupid they actually believe that marriage can end the world. Bigots, homophobes, etc.. We don't even know Duckie's religious views. See? It's the belief.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
I'd like to hear the argument though, just because I think it might amuse me. How does gay marriage ruin anything?
Well, if you're walking down the street, you might see two guys acting in a way you normally would with a girl.
And then the world blows up for no reason.
Good smurfing god, next thing you know Maryland will allow the consumption of shellfish.
As Roto said, I'm not a sister. If you bothered to read profiles you'd understand that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpendGilThe world (especially liberals in all their tolerance...) mostly hates Christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
Get used to it sister!
Furthermore, almost all of my friends are liberals and they obviously don't hate me. I haven't met many liberals that 'hate' Christians, and the ones that do are just reverse rednecks. I don't know where you got your obviously-fabricated statistics, but you're wrong. :rolleyes2
you know, this ALL started with Gideon vs. Wainwright!Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF
Oh Americans. :rolleyes2 Welcome to the 21st Century at long last.
Cool.
Soon enough the rest of the world will join them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Canada has been there for years, thanks. :P
I think the rest of the world needs to join the 20th Century first.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFSoon enough the rest of the world will join them :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
You know what the greatest part of this story is? The fact that it was a decision by a group of Conservatives.
Why is this so great? This will cause many conservatives who are anti gay to examine their views on the law, and possibly convince some people that it is not right to pass these laws that discriminate against sexuality.
Either that or start accusing the Judges of being Librals in disguise. One of the two.
It's about time that bigoted laws started getting repealed. They do absolutely no good at all.
ZMOG1!11!!! We must past the constitutional amendment against doing it in the pooper! RIGHT NOW! God is about to take a huge fart on us because of this ;_; Don't let idiots trick you into thinking it is smog! It is really God Farts and soon it might turn into God Diarrhea :O
To comment on a few aspects of this thread:
Various religious traditions are against homosexuality, but that does not mean it is something innate to the religion and all religions are corrupted. People have this false view of religions being something pure, set apart from the world. The thing is, religions exist in the here-and-how, not in some pretty vacuum outside of the world. Deities may be transcendental but that does not mean the religion is as well. The thing is, religions exist within a society thus the social values are going to be reflected in the religion. Religions that promote monogamous heterosexual relationships do so because they came into being in a society that promotes that type of relationship. A good example of this is Buddhist Five Precepts. These are the most basic precepts undertaken by lay practitioners. Regarding sexual acts, it states to "abstain from sexual misconduct". What "sexual misconduct" means is often understood within a social context. Thus, in one area it could mean one thing whereas in another it could mean something else.
Also, homosexuality is a new issue, relatively speaking. Homosexual as a word only came into being in the 18th century and has only been an identity since then. In other words, even though in Ancient Greece there were homosexual practises, none of these people identified as "homosexual". As society is dealing with this issue, so are religious traditions. The backlash against homosexuals is not a completely religious thing.
Also, I laugh at people who are like "WE MUST PRESERVE THE SANCTITY OF MARRIAGE AND ITS LONG HISTORY". Clearly they know nothing about the history of marriage within the Western context. Marriage had been a social contract where basically the father/uncle/older brother/grandfather, anyways the male in charge the female, sold her off for economical and/or social benefit. She had not say in the manner. Continuing with this, marriages during the Roman Empire became more defined by the fact that they were for procreation in order to increase the Empire's population. Again, not religious in nature at all. Shift to early Medieval Europe. Christianity tries to put mutual consent into the game. Couples optionally can go to churchs to get their union blessed. So our modern idea of weddings and such is quite new (I believe it dates to the Victorian Era). The consideration of kids within the marriage, new as well. Kids were for the longest time viewed as little adults, childhood wasn't a luxury they had, unlike we do today. So much for the history of marriage, eh? The long history is more or less an example of the patriarchal nature of Western society.
People need to get their facts straight before they say foolish things about "preserving the institution of marriage" or blaming religions for the reason why same-sex unions are not allowed.
Anyways, yay for California!
Looks like I'm going going back back to Cali Cali. I'm going going back back to Cali Cali. I'm going going back back to Cali Cali. I'm going going back back to Cali Cali.
Definitely a great step and something I'm pleased about. It'd be nice to see a similar development in Britain.
Denmark too. The first country in the world to allow civil union between gay people, woot! :cool: Allowing gay marriage here too would be ideal, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
yay! :D
Oh, did I mention this is awesome?
All I can say is it's about damn time. I love this state so much right now. :D (Now if we could just get rid of the "chicken little" fundies who are screaming about how the world will end. Morons.)
It's the liberals tolerance that is going to make this country more desensitized than it already is. Not to mention the fact that BABIES WILL DIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpendGil
Hating Christians is stupid by the way. Just because Christians don't beleive in abortion or gay marriage, people "hate" them.
I get chewed out a lot for my conservative beliefs. Not neccessarily on this forum, but a lot IRL. The world is going liberal and, consequently, down the toilet.
It's already there. Well the toilet part anyway. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
SpendGil was talking to me, not you.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckieIt's the liberals tolerance that is going to make this country more desensitized than it already is. Not to mention the fact that BABIES WILL DIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpendGil
Hating Christians is stupid by the way. Just because Christians don't beleive in abortion or gay marriage, people "hate" them.
I get chewed out a lot for my conservative beliefs. Not neccessarily on this forum, but a lot IRL. The world is going liberal and, consequently, down the toilet.
My... my sides... they hurt so much....Quote:
It's the liberals tolerance that is going to make this country more desensitized than it already is. Not to mention the fact that BABIES WILL DIE.
It's ok to hate homophobes, the problem is people assume that's what Christians are.Quote:
Hating Christians is stupid by the way. Just because Christians don't beleive in abortion or gay marriage, people "hate" them.
I think if you look at the whole situation objectively, you'll find it's the conservatives who are responsible for global warming, war, poverty, etc..Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
It's funny - my mother said that, too, when she heard about it on the news the other day!Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
I think this is fantastic and I'm so happy for all the same sex couples in California who can get married now.
And I totally wish I could be shooting Ellen and Portia's wedding.
This is a fantastic step in the right direction, I think. Legalized homosexual marriage is only one of many things that this country (and subsequently world) needs. We're becoming an increasingly global society, and if we're unable to be tolerant of those in our own nations, there's no way we'll ever be able to survive what's inevitably coming. Clinging to archaic beliefs fashioned by a world thousands of years past is, as far as I'm concerned, counterproductive to a functioning society. To move ahead, we need to shed outdated beliefs and embrace ones that function more effectively in a modern society. While I'm not as militantly anti-religion as some, I definitely think it's time that it stops becoming something that influences the laws of a society and instead exclusively influences the thoughts of an individual.
Omfg @ the replies. xD
Well, that's awesome. But it's like the amendment to give African Americans the right to citizenship.
The law says it's okay, but that won't exactly stop the abuse on them. If anything, it'll increase it.
Gonna be a rough time.
But that's awesome despite all of that. Good to see that they can legally be there, and it'll only spread around the USA.
Ann Coulter, is that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckieIt's the liberals tolerance that is going to make this country more desensitized than it already is. Not to mention the fact that BABIES WILL DIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpendGil
Hating Christians is stupid by the way. Just because Christians don't beleive in abortion or gay marriage, people "hate" them.
I get chewed out a lot for my conservative beliefs. Not neccessarily on this forum, but a lot IRL. The world is going liberal and, consequently, down the toilet.
Seriously, you need to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. He's a big, fat idiot, you know... :)
Actually, Ann Coulter has never once talked negative of homosexuals. She's just said gay "rights" isn't a big issue and it shouldn't be taking up the government's time.Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichAnn Coulter, is that you?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckieIt's the liberals tolerance that is going to make this country more desensitized than it already is. Not to mention the fact that BABIES WILL DIE.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpendGil
Hating Christians is stupid by the way. Just because Christians don't beleive in abortion or gay marriage, people "hate" them.
I get chewed out a lot for my conservative beliefs. Not neccessarily on this forum, but a lot IRL. The world is going liberal and, consequently, down the toilet.
Seriously, you need to stop listening to Rush Limbaugh. He's a big, fat idiot, you know... :)
No she hasn't. I only said that because duckie seems to have irrationally conservative views but never backs them up with valid points. Plus, duckie is a girl.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Oh what happy day this is to hear such a thing!
And they're irrational why? Because they don't line up with yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Ok NOW I get chewed out a lot on here.
You stated that America is "officially screwed" by allowing a particular group a right which they didn't have previously - a right that heterosexual people have always had (or an analogue to it). You didn't provide any reasoning for this statement, and that is why people are chewing you out, not because you believe something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckieAnd they're irrational why? Because they don't line up with yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
I could say that there is no reason to allow the right of marriage to one group of people and not to another because that represents discrimination. If you can provide me with a valid reason that homosexual people shouldn't be allowed the right of marriage then perhaps you could convince me to change my opinion. "Because it's not Christian" is not a valid argument to a non-Christian - my religion (whether it exists or not) is immaterial because if I were to accept your unsupported argument based on faith alone then I too would be guilty of the same flawed reasoning process.
My hypothesis is that Duckie was brainwashed as a child.
Dont have any evidence. But she doesnt use any, so why should I? :p
Seriously though, Duckie, I have a question for you. Would it be immoral if they passed a law banning heterosexual marriage?
If you think it would be immoral, tell me why.
Btw, plenty of Christians support abortion where necessary, and loads of them accept gay marriage.
No. I have no problem with conservative views, as long as they are supported by people who think logically and provide their basis of reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
However, as a liberal, I am smart enough to tell the difference between a conservative person and a bigot.
And before you start calling me a baby-killer or whatever, just remember: Although I support abortion, I only came to this conclusion after researching and analysis. I am a Christian. I personally am against abortion. I would never ask anyone to abort their fetus. However, I am also a man. I cannot make a decision so hefty for a woman, especially since it is her own business.
If my wife ever planned on having an abortion, I don't think that I would be able to live with her for killing my child.
I'm still pretty much against abortion, but I agree there are times where it's justified. However, I see nothing wrong with gay marriage, as (directing this at duckie) God gave us all free will to believe what we want, correct? Therefore, if Christians choose to believe in God, we should allow other to believe what they want as well, and not shove religion down their throat. And if someone chooses not to follow strict Christian doctrines, they have the God-given free will to do as they please, and if that means they want to marry someone of the same gender, that's fine by me. I don't want anyone telling me to change who I am, so who am I to do that to someone else? It isn't fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
And we have the "Abortion=TEH BEBBIE KILLERZEZ" from left field. What bearing does that have on the current topic, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Firstly, I doubt anyone here hates Christians. It's zealots that are on the receiving end of the ire. Those who would take their belief system, and use it as a method of oppression. Second, it has nothing to do with not "believing" in either of them. It's telling OTHERS that they aren't allowed to, either. Don't believe in it? Fine, don't have anything to do with it. But don't tell us what to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
How so? Please, elaborate on this. Both ideologies have pros and cons. Simplifying either to "Good" or "Bad," in my eyes, is somewhat childish. So how can "Liberalism" be the cause of the decline of the U.S.? Especially since a conservative took the helm of the country since it began it's decline.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Which civilization-group is the most successful, prosperous, and powerful the world has ever seen? The West. Who has the most flourishing artistic and cultural sector in the modern age? The West. Who has the most advanced science and technology? The best universities? The highest literacy rates? The West.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Know what else the West is? It's liberal. It's the most liberal civilization that has ever existed in Human history. The past few centuries of liberalizing is precisely what has led to our current prominence. Liberalism is what means you live in a society where you aren't going to get executed for being a rape victim.
Liberalism has given you a society where you're allowed to decide for yourself how best to live your life. You might think it's fine to have someone who agrees completely with you to have control, because it doesn't affect you - but the problem is there is no way of guaranteeing who is in control. It could just as easily be someone you disagree with. So it's better to be liberal, because then you're protected from being completely controlled by people like me.
Liberalism isn't destroying the world. It's the only beacon of hope in the world.
To be fair, there are an awful lot of people who dispense ire on Christianity as a whole these days. It's rather trendy to be bitterly vengeful about the entire thing, especially for independent-thinking young folk, even if they're blindingly ignorant about Christianity. It's as though 'argument from ignorance' is valid if you're condemning a religion or its followers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
Was that really necessary?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
In Christianity, marriage is a holy union, and under that holy union is the only way in which it is suitable to procreate. Banning such a union would be immoral for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
Noted, but unless I missed or misread, I didn't see any posts condemning Christianity, but rather those who adhere to blind zealotry. Not to say that there aren't those who make blanket assertions against Christianity as a whole, though. I suppose I should have clarified, as I meant no one in this thread. Not to make it seem like I'm shifting my goalposts here, just clarifying what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DTo be fair, there are an awful lot of people who dispense ire on Christianity as a whole these days. It's rather trendy to be bitterly vengeful about the entire thing, especially for independent-thinking young folk, even if they're blindingly ignorant about Christianity. It's as though 'argument from ignorance' is valid if you're condemning a religion or its followers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
I really hate to pour it on, but do you know what "conservatives" in the US believed 150 years ago? That slavery should be preserved as a human institution. Do you know why slavery was abolished? That damned "liberalism."Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Flash forward 20 years. Do you know what "conservatives" in the US believed? That workers should put up with the way things were. Do you know why workers' rights were established? That damned "liberalism."
The year is 1956. Do you know what "conservatives" in the US believed? That segregation was a right of states, and that nobody had any business meddling in their sacred institutions, such as segregation. Do you know why integration happened? That damned "liberalism."
Now, the year is 2008. Loving, homosexual couples do not share the same rights that others do. "Conservatives" in the US believe that others have no business meddling in their sacred institution of "marriage," as if it is theirs and theirs alone to control and define. Do you know why the same rights bestowed upon heterosexual couples are being given to all Americans? That damned "liberalism."
Now, many conservatives today will say, "That doesn't matter. I don't believe in slavery, and I don't believe in segregation." Of course they don't. But do you know why they don't? That damned "liberalism" again. They'll talk and talk and talk about tradition and the importance of preserving it; however, history has shown us that the definition of "conservatism" always, always changes, ceding more and more of these traditions in the name of progress - that damned "liberalism" again. Do you get my point? As MILF said, the world is not going down the drain because of "liberalism." Liberalism is the most important idea to ever happen to humankind.
EDIT: The definitions of "conservatism" and "liberalism" contained within this post are defined as duckie defined them by her statement that liberalism is the reason the U.S. is going down the drain.
This comes from a Christian who spent his entire life up to about two years ago as a staunch "conservative." It was not until I left the environment I had grown up in that I completely re-wired myself to a way that would be morally appropriate.
I think there were a couple near the beginning but they were "clarified." I can't be assed to check. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Giga GuessNoted, but unless I missed or misread, I didn't see any posts condemning Christianity, but rather those who adhere to blind zealotry. Not to say that there aren't those who make blanket assertions against Christianity as a whole, though. I suppose I should have clarified, as I meant no one in this thread. Not to make it seem like I'm shifting my goalposts here, just clarifying what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big DTo be fair, there are an awful lot of people who dispense ire on Christianity as a whole these days. It's rather trendy to be bitterly vengeful about the entire thing, especially for independent-thinking young folk, even if they're blindingly ignorant about Christianity. It's as though 'argument from ignorance' is valid if you're condemning a religion or its followers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
Perhaps, but the point is valid. It's easy to say the actions are just and fair when you're not the one that suffers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAIn Christianity, marriage is a holy union, and under that holy union is the only way in which it is suitable to procreate. Banning such a union would be immoral for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
WOW! Ok, well, I'm just going to reply to everyone as a whole.
About people hating Christians...
It is true. I am a Christian, and you guys are biting my head off for being so. MOST, and note that I said most, people say "Christians" not "Christian zealots". So, yea, I think that people generally hate Christians. BTW: just b/c your a conservative, does not mean you are a Christian. They do not go hand-in-hand. There just happen to be more Christians in the Republican party. And that is why I beleive people ALSO hate Republicans: b/c they have a reputation of being Christians.
Also, about my beleif that liberals will ruin the country:
That is my opinion. Don't the liberals on here bash conservatives, saying what a crappy job they would do? One major thing I think would ruin our country is free healthcare. Isn't that reminiscent of Communism? Just saying. There are lot more, like abortion, and gay marriage, but I'll talk about that in a second.
Liberalism...
Just b/c the country is going liberal, does that mean I have to change my beleifs? Why should what they beleive have anything to do with what I believe? And I disagree that liberalism is the "beacon of hope". And not everything they propose gives you freedom. EX: free healthcare (stated above) means you don't get to choose your own doctor. You get whatever they give you, b/c it's FREE. And that makes it sound good.
Gay marriage...
Like DMKA said, I beleive that marriage is a holy union. It's been set down since the beginning of time that marriage would be between a man and a woman. I beleive that we should protect the holy union of marriage.
Old conservative beleifs...
What does 100-yr old conservative beliefs have to do with anything today? If we're talking about past things, what about Lyndon B. Johnson? He lied to America during the Vietnam war (pentagon papers). But do you see me bringing that up? Past events in conervative/liberal history have nothing to do with the present. BTW: "Morallly appropriate?" So you changed your views according to what society believes?
I tear liberals apart when they have ideas I don't like, just the same way I tear conservatives apart for the same. You can ask anyone here if I'm partisan, and if they say yes, I'll link them to two threads: One where I argue in favor of free-market capitalism the likes of which has never been seen, another where I argue for completely equal rights for all sapient creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
The way the country is going doesn't matter at all. If I was the only person on Earth who disagreed with you I'd still question you, and if you were the only conservative on Earth I'd still question you. I challenge you to defend your beliefs because I disagree with them - one, or both, of us is wrong, and the only way we'll find that out is by challenging each other to defend our beliefs.Quote:
Just b/c the country is going liberal, does that mean I have to change my beleifs? Why should what they beleive have anything to do with what I believe? And I disagree that liberalism is the "beacon of hope".
Actually, it depends on the style of healthcare. Although I don't believe in socialized healthcare myself.Quote:
And not everything they propose gives you freedom. EX: free healthcare (stated above) means you don't get to choose your own doctor. You get whatever they give you, b/c it's FREE. And that makes it sound good.
Well... what about all those of us who don't believe it's a holy union? I don't think it's holy. I think it's a legal arrangement. I think it has been invested with particular importance due to society, and that emotional symbol is something that matters to people. I don't need a religion to sanctify my love for someone - if I take someone up the aisle, I have chosen to do so, and to say they and I are not sufficient, alone, for that marriage to matter and be true, insults us.Quote:
Gay marriage...
Like DMKA said, I beleive that marriage is a holy union. It's been set down since the beginning of time that marriage would be between a man and a woman. I beleive that we should protect the holy union of marriage.
No, you've misunderstood what Kiro was saying. 100 year old conservative beliefs matter because, by the very definition of conservatism, they shouldn't have changed. But they have. Most don't accept that slavery should exist, for example - because a conservative belief, just like your conservative belief, was shown to be wrongheaded and evil by liberalism. Just like liberals are, in this case, showing your belief on gay marriage to be wrongheaded and, yes, evil.Quote:
Old conservative beleifs...
What does 100-yr old conservative beliefs have to do with anything today? If we're talking about past things, what about Lyndon B. Johnson? He lied to America during the Vietnam war (pentagon papers). But do you see me bringing that up? Past events in conervative/liberal history have nothing to do with the present.
*facepalm + headdesk*Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
It's funny how you absolutely ignored my post and continued to blindly ramble on.
Furthermore, I have no idea how healthcare plays into gay marriage, but I have to disagree where you call it 'Communism'. Even if you don't get to choose your own doctor, it's a hell of a lot better than staying sick, isn't it? Also, I'm sure that only applies to the free healthcare. I'm sure if you continue to pay your current doctor, he will not object to taking care of you. The free healthcare is for those who cannot afford to pay.
And no one here is biting your head off for being a Christian, because if that was the case, they'd be biting my head off as well, because I'm a Christian too, as I have mentioned a couple times in this thread and in other ones as well. They're biting your head off because you're being entirely closed-minded and saying whatever you can to justify yourself. Take other peoples' opinions into account before you start bashing theirs, because in the end, you are acting no different than they are when they bash your opinions. That is why people are getting so frustrated with you. Get off your high horse, please. I don't normally snap like this on the forums, unless I'm not being totally serious.
I'm being totally serious. Please open your mind and shut your mouth before you say anything else.
My turn! My turn!
Who let you down from your cross?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
People are biting your head off for being an idiot. Yeah, there are people out there who hate Christians and that's wrong, but that's not why people are hating on you. Stop trying to be a martyr.
No, people hate republicans for things like the Iraq war and human rights.Quote:
BTW: just b/c your a conservative, does not mean you are a Christian. They do not go hand-in-hand. There just happen to be more Christians in the Republican party. And that is why I beleive people ALSO hate Republicans: b/c they have a reputation of being Christians.
Not would do. What a crappy job they DO.Quote:
Also, about my beleif that liberals will ruin the country:
That is my opinion. Don't the liberals on here bash conservatives, saying what a crappy job they would do?
Name a country free healthcare has ruined? Communism? I think that one quote just highlighted two more subjects you know absolutely nothing about.Quote:
One major thing I think would ruin our country is free healthcare. Isn't that reminiscent of Communism? Just saying. There are lot more, like abortion, and gay marriage, but I'll talk about that in a second.
Oh, looky, more ignorance. I'm Canadian. I get free healthcare. I get to choose my own doctor.Quote:
Liberalism...
Just b/c the country is going liberal, does that mean I have to change my beleifs? Why should what they beleive have anything to do with what I believe? And I disagree that liberalism is the "beacon of hope". And not everything they propose gives you freedom. EX: free healthcare (stated above) means you don't get to choose your own doctor. You get whatever they give you, b/c it's FREE. And that makes it sound good.
Holy union my ass. Give me one good reason why we should "protect the holy union of marriage" from people who want to get married?Quote:
Gay marriage...
Like DMKA said, I beleive that marriage is a holy union. It's been set down since the beginning of time that marriage would be between a man and a woman. I beleive that we should protect the holy union of marriage.
Because the shooting down of those beliefs is what made the world a ridiculously better place than it was during the slave trade.Quote:
Old conservative beleifs...
What does 100-yr old conservative beliefs have to do with anything today?
Lying is a liberal belief now?Quote:
If we're talking about past things, what about Lyndon B. Johnson? He lied to America during the Vietnam war (pentagon papers). But do you see me bringing that up?
You're ridiculous.Quote:
Past events in conervative/liberal history have nothing to do with the present.
Justin knows that just because something is Christian, that doesn't mean it's right so he changed his beliefs to go with the logic behind why things are right and wrong.Quote:
BTW: "Morallly appropriate?" So you changed your views according to what society believes?
This is fun to read. ^_______^
Okay, Free Health Care reminiscent of Communism? WTF?
The reason people say that is because it's socialized. Lets list all these other "Socialized" aspects of America.
1) Education
2) Libraries
3) Police
Thoset are just off the top of my head. So because these are all "reminiscent of Communism" should all of these things be taken away?
But more on topic, MArriage has meant many different things to many different cultures that had nothing to do with eachother.
So the whole "Preserving the tradition" of Marriage is a crap argument.
I think someone already linked to examples, so I'll just give a couple of reasons marraige happened.
1) Land Gain
2) Improving relations between rivals.
3) Settle debts.
None of those even require those getting married to be willing, so tradition is a BS argument.
Then theres the "Gay is wrong due to Christian law" argument. So what if many Christians precieve it as wrong? Your religious views shouldn't be passed as law. I might be quoting the wrong founding father, but I believe that Thomas Jefferson said that there should be a separation of church and state.
Those are the two arguments I hear most frequently, and neither of them hold any water. I'll post later and argue against various other arguments I've heard, but for now this will suffice.
This is by far the most EoEo topic in General I've ever seen.
As for the whole Christian argument, depends on your type of Christian. If your a non-denominational, you mainly believe in god and Jesus Christ. Most gay people who are Christian are non-denominational because their church doesn't focus on certain things in the bible and make them church law. Basically it avoids dogma's as seen in baptist Christianity, the whole thing where no baptist person should drink alcohol because it opens up the mind to sins and leaves the mind vulnerable to the devil. Not all Christian types believe that Sodom and Gamora is a type of law to follow, due to the fact that many Christians take it up in a different interpretation. Yes, god did smite down the gays and lesbians, but most Christian types do not believe the bible is meant to be taken word for word and that it is up for human interpretation.
MEANING, that if god smote down Sodom and Gamora then no matter what we do in this life with gays and lesbians that god will take care of and it is by no means, part of a christians moral code to interfere. MEANING! If something like this passes in the government you are to leave your faith in the hands of god, versus the hands of the state to stop what you feel to be morally wrong. Why? Because no christian is the hand of god, and to try to take control of something that god previously took control of (S&G) is claiming that you have the power to change things only god was able to change, thus claiming yourself equal to god. And last time I checked, Pride was a sin.
And because of there being no -true- dogma in -all- of Christianity and a hell of a lot of Christian types, that leads there to be no majority for Christians "as a whole." Because of that, the chances of a christian fighting the "political power" as a whole, doesn't seem very liable. Like I said before, there are gay christians.
Either way, I support gay marriage, so yay for california.
Ok folks let's keep it civil. I don't want any EoEO leakage into my precious General Chat if it's all the same to you! Next person to be insulting gets their skull metaphorically cracked.
There's a difference between 'insults' and 'heated discussion', Paul. <3
There sure is, Justin! And which category does "idiot" fall under? :p (I didn't see a problem with your post, fyi)
Ooh~ I see an undirected insult there.
Metaphorical skull-cracking time? :D
No you gosh darned don't. I was giving an example of a word in this thread that I deem inappropriate and wouldn't like to see used in such a way again.
Now can we get back to talking about gay marriage and how America feels the desperate need to call itself CONSERVATIVE or LIBERAL and then take great big dumps on the other side 'cause they've got to be intellectually inferior and oh no we can't be having that?
Okay? OKAY!
Yeah well I am a Christian too. Before you question if I just go on Christmas and Easter, let me reassure you, I attend religious services three times a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
And I am a liberal. I think that conservatism is [usually] garbage.
However, I think my religious views should affect ME, while my political views should affect OTHERS.
You know whom I see hating Christians most? Other Christians. They disregard that entire "love thy neighbor" passage.
Can't get much more hating than this either:
http://www.baptistwatch.org/pics/protest.jpg
By the way, I don't think Jesus would do this when he was on Earth.
You better change read what Paul just said and clean that post up...Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
No, outside of a few people, most are simply pointing out flaws in your arguments.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
And MOST, yes I said most, too, say it only in respons to behavior archetypal of a zealot.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Please get off the cross. We need the firewood. You pose a point of view. There are those of us who will disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
That's nice. I feel you're wrong. I also feel that condemning a person purely on what side of the political spectrum they stand on is juvenile at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
And conservative supporters have never bashed anyone...?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
No, it's more closely akin to Socialism, which is, in all reality, quite far removed from Communism. One advocates making the wellbeing of it's citizens paramount. The other seeks to make it so no person can exceed another.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Don't like abortions? Don't get one. Don't like gay marriage? Don't get one. Guess what? It's not right to push your dogma onto the rest of the populace in the form of law.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Of course not. You're just not allowed to force others to conform to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
It shouldn't...but that door swings both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Huh. We have free healthcare up here in Canada. i have chosen every doctor I've seen so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Not having to mortgage a house to pay for cancer treatments...however could I have thought that was good?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
Like the "Holy" 42 hour union between Britney Spears and whatsisface? And the "Holy" unions resulting from Joe Millionaire and the Bachelor? The "Holy" unions between the gold-digging vultures, who are just waiting for their "husband" to croak to get a big fat paycheck? And the "Holy" unions those mail order brides enter into? Is this the institution we are going to be so grievously besmirching?Quote:
Originally Posted by duckie
How is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
Yes, but the difference is, the flag-waving gay people aren't doing it to attack any other group. Those signs are clearly attacking homosexuals because of the derogatory way they are protesting (calling them 'fags' and such). In my eyes, it is no different than calling a black person the 'n' word.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
No, again. They are stating their religious beliefs, saying their GOD hates gay people, not them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiYes, but the difference is, the flag-waving gay people aren't doing it to attack any other group. Those signs are clearly attacking homosexuals because of the derogatory way they are protesting (calling them 'fags' and such). In my eyes, it is no different than calling a black person the 'n' word.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
I dunno, that "Thank God for AIDS" sign seems pretty hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
And last I checked, heterosexuals aren't immune to AIDS...
Exactly. It doesn't say "Thank God for AIDS for killing FAGS". It just says "Thank God for AIDS".Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichI dunno, that "Thank God for AIDS" sign seems pretty hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
And last I checked, heterosexuals aren't immune to AIDS...
And you know why it says that? Because they are happy to see homosexuals dying from a disease because they HATE THEM.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I disagree. But you're entitled to jump to that conclusion, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichAnd you know why it says that? Because they are happy to see homosexuals dying from a disease because they HATE THEM.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
It just doesn't make sense for someone who is indifferent toward an issue to protest publicly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I don't think they're protesting for "the benefit of homosexuals." They aren't going to see those signs and go "OMG, God hates me. I better change ASAP or I'm going to hell." I'm going to guess that they are already aware that the Bible disagrees with what they are doing.
I can never even pretend to understand people like this...the Phelpses are prime example of these guys. There's no attempt at anything other than making a scene, ensuring the world knows just who is going to hell today, and making sure to inflict as much pain, suffering and humiliation on the family they choose to picket this week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
Actually, it seems to be effective. Google the "ex-gay" movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichIt just doesn't make sense for someone who is indifferent toward an issue to protest publicly.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I don't think they're protesting for "the benefit of homosexuals." They aren't going to see those signs and go "OMG, God hates me. I better change ASAP or I'm going to hell." I'm going to guess that they are already aware that the Bible disagrees with what they are doing.
Yeah, and um...how do you justify the FAG = (was that supposed to be a + though?) ANAL SEX = DEATH thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAExactly. It doesn't say "Thank God for AIDS for killing FAGS". It just says "Thank God for AIDS".Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichI dunno, that "Thank God for AIDS" sign seems pretty hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
And last I checked, heterosexuals aren't immune to AIDS...
Though it may be politically incorrect to point out nowadays, AIDS is quite rampant among homosexual males, far more commonly does it spread from men having anal sex with men than any other way. And AIDS leads to death.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiYeah, and um...how do you justify the FAG = (was that supposed to be a + though?) ANAL SEX = DEATH thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAExactly. It doesn't say "Thank God for AIDS for killing FAGS". It just says "Thank God for AIDS".Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichI dunno, that "Thank God for AIDS" sign seems pretty hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
And last I checked, heterosexuals aren't immune to AIDS...
What I'm more confused about is how they got "God hates fags" out of Rom 9:13.
Ironically, Esau's not gay. He was hated because he sold his birthright to his brother for food because instead of becoming a shepard he became a hunter. He was the first born, and his inability to do what he was suppose to led him to cowardice, that cowardice 'caused him to give up and give Jacob the whole first-born rights. Also, it's not god that hated him, the words are spoken by Rebekha his mother. She was speaking about Esau's cowardice and the dishonor towards the family.Quote:
13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
Not to mention he had three wives.
Then again, they could be looking at an entirely different Rom. 9:13.
People can't just become "straight." They can become celibate. Which even heterosexual couples should be before marriage according to Bible doctrines. But instantly from gay to straight? No, won't happen. Despite what Ted Haggard may make it seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I brought that up, but Momiji asked me to remove my comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarice-ness
Ignore DMKA. He's one o' them self hating types.
Never said they could. I was just merely pointing out that there are in fact plenty of gay people who acknowledge and heed their religious message.Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichPeople can't just become "straight." They can become celibate. Which even heterosexual couples should be before marriage according to Bible doctrines. But instantly from gay to straight? No, won't happen. Despite what Ted Haggard may make it seem.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
I'm pretty sure DMKA is either being facetious, or playing devil's advocate. Heh, quite a fitting use for the term devil's advocate...
Anyway, here's a thought: How, exactly, does legalised gay marriage undermine the sanctity of Christian marriage? As far as I can see, a Christian marriage should remain just as blessed and meaningful as it was before, in the eyes of Christians. Allowing homosexuals to have legally-recognised marriage is about as 'harmful' to the Christian marriage tradition as giving legal status to Jewish, Muslim, or Hindu weddings. And I'd just love to see a fundamentalist try to argue why the US should legislate to ban all non-Christian marriage...
Yeah, that's something I've never understood. If someone believes that marriage is a Christian institution, doesn't that mean the state can't possibly legalize 'real' gay marriage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big D
Okay, now think logically. What are the odds that they are innocently just standing there holding clearly anti-homosexual signs with the best intentions of trying to 'save' said homosexuals, when they could just as easily not make it sound like they're absolute bigots?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAThough it may be politically incorrect to point out nowadays, AIDS is quite rampant among homosexual males, far more commonly does it spread from men having anal sex with men than any other way. And AIDS leads to death.Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiYeah, and um...how do you justify the FAG = (was that supposed to be a + though?) ANAL SEX = DEATH thing?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAExactly. It doesn't say "Thank God for AIDS for killing FAGS". It just says "Thank God for AIDS".Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichI dunno, that "Thank God for AIDS" sign seems pretty hateful.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is that hate? They're saying their God hates fags, not them. Also, everything on those signs are a matter of personal feeling, or fact. I don't see the problem if gay people can wave their rainbow flags and their "i love buttsex" signs around with these people flaunting their opinions and beliefs as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
And last I checked, heterosexuals aren't immune to AIDS...
Well then why did you refer to it as an "ex-gay" movement? That implies that they are no longer gay. They're still gay, they just don't act upon their impulses because of their religious views.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
You can't become "ex-straight" if you don't have sex, but you're straight.
Maybe calling it something else like a "pro-celibacy" movement would be more appropriate.
It's rampant PERIOD. They're calling it a pandemic for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Did you completely miss that I put "ex-gay" in quotations? Jesus.Quote:
Originally Posted by YaridovichWell then why did you refer to it as an "ex-gay" movement? That implies that they are no longer gay. They're still gay, they just don't act upon their impulses because of their religious views.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
You can't become "ex-straight" if you don't have sex, but you're straight.
Maybe calling it something else like a "pro-celibacy" movement would be more appropriate.
Doesn't change the statistical facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
Exactly. I don't think that those children born HIV-positive chose to "disobey God" even though they were aware that their conception had a risk of a deadly disease...Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga GuessIt's rampant PERIOD. They're calling it a pandemic for a reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
Oh, so quotes saved your post? You told me to Google the ex-gay movement. So, I did.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKA
The ones that say that women account for about 50% of AIDS infections, and are the fastest rising group?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKADoesn't change the statistical facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
HIV/AIDS Statistics - Worldwide
And as was mentioned, a fair chunk further are people just born with the disease? Some gay men have AIDS, true, but every homosexual I know has had the cold at some time or another. Is that a gay disease, too?
How is the cold at all related to this? Who said it was a "gay disease"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga GuessThe ones that say that women account for about 50% of AIDS infections, and are the fastest rising group?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKADoesn't change the statistical facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
HIV/AIDS Statistics - Worldwide
And as was mentioned, a fair chunk further are people just born with the disease? A reasonable chunk of gay men have AIDS, true, but every homosexual I know has had the cold at some time or another. Is that a gay disease, too?
You did.
Also lookie, I can find random lacking in credibility web pages to support me too!
Okay, these arguments are totally irrelevant to the thread... perhaps we should get back on topic.
Legalizing gay marriage is definite progress.
Fine, I retract the gay disease part. You merely insinuated that the gay community is linked to AIDS because there are some in it that suffer from AIDS.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKAHow is the cold at all related to this? Who said it was a "gay disease"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga GuessThe ones that say that women account for about 50% of AIDS infections, and are the fastest rising group?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMKADoesn't change the statistical facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Giga Guess
HIV/AIDS Statistics - Worldwide
And as was mentioned, a fair chunk further are people just born with the disease? A reasonable chunk of gay men have AIDS, true, but every homosexual I know has had the cold at some time or another. Is that a gay disease, too?
You did.
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Momiji
I was never going to question you. But let me point out that there are a lot of people that attend religious services three times a week that go out after the services and have premarital sex, or do drugs, or curse like crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
Your absolutely right! Jesus preached love, not hate. God IS love (1 John 5), so how can these people call themselves Christians and then go out and do this? These people give Christians a bad reputation. I would NEVER do something like this. I do NOT hate gay people. These people are ridiculous. NOWHERE in the Bible does it say God hates homosexuals (reference to the signs with Bible verses on them). This kind of behavior makes me sick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaridovich
BTW:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
And you guys are telling me that I'm trying to be "a martyr"? I'm voicing my opinion, and you guys say stuff like this. I'm not trying to be all high and mighty. I don't know where you got that from.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Quote:
Originally Posted by duckieBTW:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivisteiner
And you guys are telling me that I'm trying to be "a martyr"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Roto13
Quote:
Stop trying to be a martyr.
A lot of your posts start with something to the effect of "wah wah wah everyone hates me because of my religion" and if that's not trying to paint yourself as a martyr, then there has never in the history of the world been a martyr.Quote:
I'm voicing my opinion, and you guys say stuff like this. I'm not trying to be all high and mighty. I don't know where you got that from.
Seriously you guys have had enough practise with me to know a troll when you see one.