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Well, as I stated in a different thread, Fire Emblem is my current game of play, and I'm really enjoying it 3 chapters in.
I've loved the conversation between the main and Virion, where you basically play chess with him to develope strategies, and the high and might noble apperently plays dirty as smurf.
It was a great scene. :p
Combat is pretty bitchin' too!
Try not to spoil anything, and let us revive the discussion!
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Then there's nothing to discuss but how awesome stahl is!
What about Virion? I'm really like that guy and Fredrick!
I think I'll have to raise their affinity soon.
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
I didn't use Virion.
Usually I like to use an archer but I skipped out on him.
Plus archers' skills don't look very useful for their class. They should already have high skill and hit, they need countering moves for when they're attacked......
And didn't train frederick since he was already promoted :)
He doesn't play dirty, he plays ruthlessly. He understands the objective of the game, to capture the enemy general, and he works solely towards that goal. Sacrificing over half his pieces to do so. While the Avatar takes it more as an actual battle, and works to preserve his own units and win a victory according to the terms of battle, but not the terms of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
A standard, non-spoiler word of advice, Neo: Play it safe with your Supports. Each character can only get an S-Rank Support with one other character, and you want to think those out very carefully, because there is some min-maxing to them. So keep a save file before you start triggering S-Ranks, because you might want to revert once you understand the systems better (or just start a new file, that's an option too).
Unfortunately, a lot of the awesomeness of this game is very, very spoileriffic. The story is great and has some great twists. Characters are amazing, but since you haven't met most of them, that's spoiler territory.
Well, the mechanics of the game are absolutely phenomenal. It really is the best version of a Fire Emblem game I've ever played. A number of the more annoying features have been streamlined out (Weapon Weight, I'm looking at you), and what remains is a core gameplay experience that is extremely simple to pick up, yet has the depth to keep you interested and tweaking it throughout multiple games and save files.
I love having a turn-based game offer such a sound challenge. Beating Castle Apotheosis on Lunatic was an intense hour and a half affair that had me biting my nails down to the knuckle, and I still have the hard mode and Lunatic+ to go.
[QUOTE=Skyblade;3281152]Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Poor Nino, Serra, and Lyn :(
Cleared out Chapter 3 and now have me Pegasus Knight, and god she is awesome. Gained her two levels in that fight, though I had to be careful of the Archers.
And it's good to know I can only S rank once with a character. That I did not realize.
Edit: Also I've got both Roy's Sword and Sigmunds Lance, the latter seems to require a B rank in a skill just to use.
Oh, so you started getting the different character conversations and scenes? Fun. Wait till you get to build up relationships a bit more. Now THAT is fun. Tedious, but fun. MU + Tharja ftw.
So, about the upcoming twist...
(SPOILER)I suspected it from Marths first appearance, if only for identical hair style, but Marth is Krom, isn't he? :p
Edit: Just got Donnel, the farmer kid. One guy made off with a Killer Lance, but I got the other treasure, a Rescue, and got Donnel up to level four in that one map, the last level he got finishing off the bandit leader. :p
I loving having Fredrick to set to support weak guys like him. :p
Edit2:....And I'm already starting to get bored of it. :cry:
You're getting bored, really? Huh. Is it a lack of challenge, or the fact that the story really hasn't started yet?
As for the twist... Ha ha. No. Way more awesome than that. But the first major twist does indeed involve Marth's identity.
Yeah. The Marth thing should be cleared up not too long from now. You may be getting bored because Fredrick is a bit overpowered for the beginning of the game. I'd say it'd be better to not use him at all, tends to lend to more exciting fights not being egregiously overpowered.
I've put in more time in this game than the most of the games I have played. Only to get the support conversations, right after I finished the story.
It's very well done, and my favorite character would have to be Tharja, for reasons.
The challange is fair enough playing through on hard, so it's not that. The gameplay itself just isn't doing a whole lot for me. I'll still probably play for a bit longer, but this happened last time I played a Fire Emblem game. :p
I don't really like the Rock/Paper/Siscors style combat, and outside of what kind of weapon works well on who, there doesn't' really feel like that big of a difference between weapon types. I'll still give it some time before dropping it though, I"m only on chapter 5/6 at the moment. :p
I actually felt the same way when I first played fire emblem...you just move the characters around, you don't control your units during battles.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Also, I think as the games go by you notice the weapon triangle less as even enemies with axes get higher hits against swords (axe users usually have lower speed), you do notice changes if you use someone that can use a couple different weapons though.
I can understand that. The combat doesn't have the variety of a game like FFT or Shining Force, it's more like Chess or XCOM. Movement, tactics, and knowing the strength of your units and the enemy.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
But you should keep going. The story is awesome, and well worth the trouble. Just finish it once. Please? :)
The srpg genre has already evolved with stuff like valkyria chronicles and tactics ogre kinda ruined me when it comes to traditional srpgs but awakening has been really awesome to see the Nintendo side of this genre. The game is exceptionally polished and as i told Sky in our pm's, I'm a sucker for 3d so I'm also enjoying that part of the aesthetic especially with how the combat overhead looks like a tabletop war game. The story is a little simple but there are some very mature scenes and I found a lot of the characters to be very likable so the story is more than enough to keep me interested.
Would like a little more depth on the gameplay side but I can't really complain due to just how fun it is to play.
...And I suffered my first unit casualty. :(
And it was Virion. :cry:
And if, by chapter 10, the game is still boring me, I'm pretty much going to be done with it.
The highlight thus far has been the character dialogues, I really enjoyed the first one with your main and Virion. :(
I also like Vaike and Kun'Lo (Who is a smurfing beast, I know this was luck but he crit four smurfing times in a row.)
And I actually like both Chess and the new XCome game. :p
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Do you mean Lon'qu?
He's really good, he pairs good with vaike as vaike gives +5 str. And myrmidon's have high crit rates....wait until he promotes for his swordmaster skill :)
Yeah, that's who I meant. :p
And I have been pairing him with Vaike, only because I really like their conversations. :p
I've also boosted him with Lilly, though I think I'm going to keep her with the Peasant guy just to see where their conversations lead. :p
So far I'm not really interested in an S rank with any of the lady's and my main.
I am currently nearing end game. Sereva (I think) is mega broken.
She has 57 skill, and sol, so most attacks drain half the damage. She also can attack twice on her turn when she kills a unit. I have her with a killer axe so she also had a 53% crit chance. She also has 73 hp.
Girl be broken.
Yeah, well, Cordelia is broken too. Simply because she has the best class lineup in the game. Pegasus Knight/Mercenary/Dark Mage. (SPOILER)Severa just inherits that, plus more stat bonuses and whatever classes her father gives her access to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Shauna
Pegasus Knight gives access to good classes, and a decent group of skills. And Galeforce. Which is just ridiculously powerful.
Mercenary gives access to Armsthrift and Sol, two really, really excellent skills, in addition to solid stats.
And Dark Mage gives access to the really powerful Dark Magic tomes. And a Sorceror with Sol and Armsthrift essentially cannot die. Aversa's Night or Nosferatu drain half damage as health all the time, and 55% of the time or so you'll activate Sol, and drain full attack damage.
Yeah, me finishing this game? Not happening.
I like that it's challenging, the story is good, the characters are fun, and the relationship scenes are great.
But the combat bores the ever loving piss out of me. And as an SRPG, combat can take quite a while.
It's not even that there is anything inherently wrong with the combat, it just doesn't engage me in the slightest.
Pity. Maybe play on Normal? The combat will go faster and you can spend more time on the rest of the game!
I do understand your objection. But you are missing out on some awesome bits. I suppose we can start putting more spoilers in here for you then...
(SPOILER)"Marth" is Chrom's daughter. She came back in time from the future because Chrom got murdered, your army got wiped out, and the world basically ended.
I looked that up already actually. :p
However...
(SPOILER)Didn't she say Chrom was going to get assassinated that night you found out she's a girl? If so, how the hell did she ever exist at all? :p
And yeah, playing it on normal would just drain the challange, which would make the experience even less pleasant for me. :P
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
Actually if you go into options you can choose a setting so you don't have to watch the animated battles, just the battles on the map.
Well yeah, but it's still an SRPG. Not going to stop the battles from being long. :p
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
:(
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Originally Posted by NeoCracker
It was Emmeryn who was going to be assassinated. As far as I recall she told them about the assassination attempt then they went back to stop it.
I thought she also said a guy in the bushes was going to kill him, and she was there to stop him. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Flaming IceQuote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCracker
It was Emmeryn who was going to be assassinated. As far as I recall she told them about the assassination attempt then they went back to stop it.
Time travel stories are weird.
[QUOTE=NeoCracker;3281744]Quote:
Originally Posted by Flaming Ice
Yeah, I don't really recall what happened but I do dislike time travel stories as they make no sense.
Like how someone sees their self as a baby/child... they could have the same person from every second they existed come back in time and watch their own birth.
Timey Wimey BallHer exact words are "I'm about to save your life. From him."
However, she later explains that he would have survived anyway, but been given a permanent wound which would have weakened him and been partially responsible for his death later.
The timelines don't quite match up in any case. In the current timeline, Chrom dies when she's about three years old, while in her future, she claimed to learn the sword from him, and have memories of her mother. She also claims that she comes from a period "more than ten years hence". This indicates that the final battle in the current time happens a lot sooner than it did in Lucina's future.
Let me ask you this, though, NeoCracker: Are you interested enough in the characters and stories to want to play a more traditional RPG featuring them?
Alright, that explains that oddity well enough then. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
And yeah, hell I'd love to keep in an SRPG, just using a different SRPG system. I really enjoyed the characters. :p
So I take it you haven't heard that Atlus is currently developing a crossover RPG with Intelligent Systems? Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoCrackerAlright, that explains that oddity well enough then. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
And yeah, hell I'd love to keep in an SRPG, just using a different SRPG system. I really enjoyed the characters. :p
...Really? You would think that I, one of the forums biggest Atlus Fanboys, hasn't heard of this?
YEs, yes I know of this and want to get it when I have a WiiU. :P
Turning off combat animations actually do make the battles go quite quickly.
If you press "Start" during an enemy turn it will fast-forward through the entire turn as well, only pausing if a character dies or levels up, or a story boss is slain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeIf you press "Start" during an enemy turn it will fast-forward through the entire turn as well, only pausing if a character dies or levels up, or a story boss is slain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
And in options isn't there's an option that allows you to make units move faster?
I'd like to take a moment to point out Nintendo's current promotion. Anyone who registers both Fire Emblem Awakening and Shin Megami Tensei IV on Nintendo's site gets a gift card code that can be applied to the 3DS's Nintendo Shop worth thirty dollars.
The reason I'm bringing this up? Because those funds can be used to purchase DLC. So many of you haven't picked up the DLCs due to lack of funding, but if you grabbed SMT IV, you just got a boon to your e-wallet as soon as you register. Get it before the promotion ends, and start grabbing the DLCs. They're worth it!
Also, I should point out that the final piece of SpotPass content, the Book of Naga, has now been released, so sync up at your local WiFi hotspot!
Reviving this old thread because I want to revive a thread with revival in the title. I need more people to talk to about this game.
It has devoured the past month of my life. It is FAR from a perfect game with some extremely glaring flaws... but its a blast to play all the same.
I'm playing through Lunatic/Classic right now in preparation for Lunatic+
Is anyone else still playing this little title?
What are these glaring flaws, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollHunter
I am still playing, at least. I recently discovered just how useful StreetPass can be, allowing you to set up shops to regularly pick up stat-boosters, Hammerne staves, Dragonstone+/Beaststone+, Second Seals, and some rare weapons (like Celica's Gale), as soon as you get Wireless Access. It is such a boon to Lunatic level grinding to have a reliable source of Second Seals before the shop that normally sells them becomes available.
yeah streetpass can be very useful for runs. You're going to really want some streetpass team items for Lunatic+ by the way. So I'd recommend finding out which bonus teams sell the best stuff (levin swords, brave weapons, mire, stuff like that)Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeWhat are these glaring flaws, exactly?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollHunter
I am still playing, at least. I recently discovered just how useful StreetPass can be, allowing you to set up shops to regularly pick up stat-boosters, Hammerne staves, Dragonstone+/Beaststone+, Second Seals, and some rare weapons (like Celica's Gale), as soon as you get Wireless Access. It is such a boon to Lunatic level grinding to have a reliable source of Second Seals before the shop that normally sells them becomes available.
And glaring problems? Well, the longass read coming up covers what is glaring to me.
clears throat
Swordmaster was horribly nerfed and got nothing out of it. Most of the swordmaster stat caps are lower than assassin, and assassin gets bows as well. Not to mention the loss of their critical bonus. Its only good point is swordfaire/astra but since reclassing is a thing thats hardly great.
Validar was an absolutely terrible and generic villain, and the deus ex machina at the end of the game was ridiculous and goes entirely against the self-insert avatar character (SPOILER)basically, our avatar character went behind our back and came up with an insane plan. It's basically the ultimate example of how not to do a self-insert character. The avatar is also extremely bland is a complete mary sue/gary stu.
choicesMany of the choices you can make in this game serve almost no purpose whatsoever. What choice you make regarding Emmeryns fate changes nothing, what you say when Lucina tries to kill you means nothing, and even if you let the avatar sacrifice himself at the end of the game it goes and implies that even your sacrifice had no real consequences because he just comes back because of the power of love. I honestly would have preferred having no choice. No choice>Choices that dont matter in my opinion
Many of the characters in this game take their gimmick way to far in support conversations. Kellam was amusing at first but before long it was clear that his only defining trait was that no one notices him. It stops being funny and just becomes a nuisance. Same goes with Pannes racism and Cordelias crush on Chrom. There are some really fun and awesome characters, but many of them just become their trope or gimmick. It's a huge shame. At least there are plenty of awesome characters that are a joy to read.
Due to stat changes the sorcerer class becomes extremely overpowered. Due to their buff to defense and the removal of the constitution stat Sorcerers are pretty much ridiculous. In the GBA titles the heavy weight of a druid/summoners tomes and lower defense held them back. And even with those shackles they were still amazing. Here? Pfft, please. I'm just going to armsthrift sol nosfertank the entire game without worry. Heck, you dont even need armsthrift or sol to make it insane, those just add insult to injury.
The pair-up mechanic, while AWESOME, is broken because enemy units cannot make use of it. This tilts the scales largely in your favor and the pair-up mechanic also results in this game heavily rewarding small skeleton crew teams of a few elite pairs. I love using a ton of units, but I just feel like im gimping myself because I know I'd be better off with a small balanced a-team of destruction. Also, pair up makes the veteran skill and by association the avatar that much more broken. (Getting avatar to Lv.20 by chapter 3? Easy.)
Lunatic+ was handled very poorly. Especially during the earlygame its almost entirely based on good RNG and the game not giving every enemy hawkeye and luna+. You could have the perfect strategy but "oh, too many enemies have counter/pavise+/aegis+ or luna+ I need to restart because the battles already lost". This gets more manageable as your units become more powerful, but earlygame is just completely stupid and requires reset after reset just to give a level a real attempt (I'm looking at you chapter 2).
Galeforce is broken late-game. Maybe if it functioned like cavaliers in FE9, but here its just ridiculous. And because of pair-up you can get double galeforce...
Also, let me just say now... Some of these character designs were horrible. General and Great Knight being prime examples of utter silliness. Sorcerer also looks basically like a bunch of fanservice on the female end. I feel like they could have done a lot better here.
And really... a ton of the content in this game just felt rushed. Like the multiplayer functionality for one. Yeah, I'm going to give my team to a bunch of incompetent AI and let them fight someone. It just feels tacked on and I'd rather it not have wasted development time. Also, the barracks/event tiles feel out of place and weird. The "conversations" units have on them largely make no sense and some of the items you get from them can just break the earlygame. It adds a bit too much more RNG to an already RNG based game.
Getting close to the end here... we come back to supports. I'm referring to the generic parent daughter/son supports that are the same regardless of the parent (bar a few exceptions). They make a ton of units act extremely out of character and just feel strange (Nowi!Morgan and Virion!Inigo being prime examples). This was bound to be an issue though due to the number of potential combinations. It'd be insane to have different supports for them all, but it doesnt make the generic supports less of an issue.
And FINALLY, I feel that the mission variety and map design was really dumbed down in this game. Every mission is either "route the enemy" or "defeat the commander" with absolutely no fog of war or any other fun gimmicks. The map designs are also largely simplistic and are extremely easy to just zerg-rush through. And on lower difficulties enemy formations seem to appear random and haphazard due to them just removing enemies from formations for easier difficulties. The challenge DLC had some really fun gimmicks and map design though, I had a blast with that DLC. Oh, also... Enemy thieves also only steal one item in this game, and usually its a pretty useless one. This basically kills any sense of urgency you may have to open what few chests there actually are.
I do LOVE this game though, I swear. It's just that I've put a ridiculous amount of time and research into it. It has a nice artstyle, the music is OHMAGODYES, the game doesnt take itself too seriously but it knows when to crank it up (chapter 10. MUSTAFA NO). The battles are also a lot more fun to watch than say... PoR or RD which were a lot more awkward and rigid. The game looks gorgeous, the new features like Pair-up and reclassing is awesome, and I love how brutal the game gets in some later DLC. Expanding on the pair-up mechanic, I kind of love how it works in a way that even characters that would be considered useless have a place as support. It makes it to where anyone can be viable if used correctly. They also greatly expanded on the skill-system in this game, and I think that helped one of FEs bigger issues of enemies being pushovers by giving them sadistic stat combos. I love the depth of character building that can go on, and I love the children mechanic. This game is beautiful and amazing, but its also one of the most breakable FE's to date.
PHEW, that was fun to write. Hopefully it wasnt too much of a pain to read.
I agree with a lot of those, but not all of them.
Character flaws are actually massively toned down for the series. Compare Stahl to a character like Ilyana. Both have the "always hungry" thing going on, but it shows up way more in Ilyana's Supports. In Awakening, with the exception of a couple characters, the quirks are restricted to the tile conversations or other bonus dialogue, rather than Supports or character building dialogue.
StreetPass doesn't really work as a fighting system, but why would you want it to? There are enemies aplenty, so rather than fight, you should set your team up to pass rare, powerful, or forged items across in the shop. Lack of online multiplayer is annoying, but hardly crippling to the game.
Fog of War was cut for time, and it was felt that introducing a core mechanic for DLC shouldn't be done. But we will likely see it back in the next game.
I actually quite like the map design. While it may be easy to face roll over things, especially at low difficulties or with DLC trained units, there is a lot of depth to be found if you take the time to analyze them, or are trying DLC-free Lunatic/Lunatic+.
(SPOILER)The father/child relationships were clearly caused by the number of possible combinations, and they did fix that in the Future Past DLCs. It's worth playing through them just to see those conversations.
Pair Up is the only thing that makes Lunatic or Lunatic+ possible, it blows the old Rescue system away completely, and adds a lovely system of depth to the customization and combat. They needed to tune enemy stats for it on Hard mode (possibly on Normal too, and actually introduce an Easy mode), but that's about it.
Also, I find Swordmasters really useful for the added survivability. They survive substantially longer than Assassins, especially against magical foes, and they tend to trend slightly better for me on stats while leveling, before the caps are reached. Plus, they are one of only a handful of classes to get two truly useful skills, even if they can both be passed on to other classes via reclassing.
(SPOILER)I also disagree that the Avatar character is bland. If it were, well, that would be a point in favor of blank slate self-insert. But there is a ton of depth of character which comes out in the Supports and DLCs.
I think you missed out on the game's biggest flaw, though, which is the lack of endgame content. So many great systems that make customization deeper and more rewarding than in any previous Fire Emblem, but very few places to use them. Thank goodness for Castle Apotheosis, Rogues and Reedemers (on harder difficulties), and the Future Past.
The game may not be perfect, but it is still utterly phenomenal.
Also, my Streetpass Team is full of max stat (Limit Broken), weapon-forged, fully skilled units, including an Avatar with max Limit Broken stats in every job and every skill learned. Even with a poor AI, good luck.
Alright, let's break this down. You actually said a lot of the same things I was saying with different words :p
ANYWAY
How many of kellams supports have you seen? Tharja? Yarne? Panne? The last two especially. Try and read kellams supports without that gimmick appearing at least 500 times. And maybe the gimmicks are more pronounced because you arent limited in number to the ones you can get. It was less of an issue in older FEs due to the constraint on supports due to bonuses. You know, that might actually be a part of it.Quote:
Character flaws are actually massively toned down for the series. Compare Stahl to a character like Ilyana. Both have the "always hungry" thing going on, but it shows up way more in Ilyana's Supports. In Awakening, with the exception of a couple characters, the quirks are restricted to the tile conversations or other bonus dialogue, rather than Supports or character building dialogue.
That basically proves my point. Using streetpass to fight my friends teams controlled by enemy AI is broken and pointless due to the lack of enemies being able to use pair-up and the enemy AI being basically a bunch of lemmings. Instead of half-assing it they could have put dev time to more important things.Quote:
StreetPass doesn't really work as a fighting system, but why would you want it to? There are enemies aplenty, so rather than fight, you should set your team up to pass rare, powerful, or forged items across in the shop. Lack of online multiplayer is annoying, but hardly crippling to the game.
I use it as a shop myself too as its amazing that way. It's just a shame that its really the only use it has. FE has never really had good multiplayer though (llolLinkArena)
Really? Thats quite a shame. This game definitely suffered from FoW not being there and I cant wait to see it back (or at least something akin to it. I like gimmicks in my strategy games, what can I say? :p)Quote:
Fog of War was cut for time, and it was felt that introducing a core mechanic for DLC shouldn't be done. But we will likely see it back in the next game.
Different strokes for different folks. Aside from a few levels I felt it was quite bland. I might need to replay some older FEs to make a direct comparison.Quote:
I actually quite like the map design. While it may be easy to face roll over things, especially at low difficulties or with DLC trained units, there is a lot of depth to be found if you take the time to analyze them, or are trying DLC-free Lunatic/Lunatic+.
I kind of said that in my initial post, but at least we're on the same page.Quote:
(SPOILER)The father/child relationships were clearly caused by the number of possible combinations, and they did fix that in the Future Past DLCs. It's worth playing through them just to see those conversations.
And agreed, the future past DLC is amazing.
They could have rebalanced lunatic/lunatic+ in a way that'd make it possible with enemies using pair-up. I think that enemies being able to utilize pair-up would have changed the flow of combat in a very interesting way that could have been a nice counter to a lot of popular strategies.Quote:
Pair Up is the only thing that makes Lunatic or Lunatic+ possible, it blows the old Rescue system away completely, and adds a lovely system of depth to the customization and combat. They needed to tune enemy stats for it on Hard mode (possibly on Normal too, and actually introduce an Easy mode), but that's about it.
Trust me, I love my swordmasters. The fact is that aside from res they are completely outclassed by assassins. Myrmidon branch kind of has both. Swordmaster is decent for the main game at least, but by post game there is no reason other than love for the class to use swordmaster. Assassins also provide more well balanced stat bonuses when used as a support in pair up, and have access to the sought after brave bow along with brave swords. Swordmaster being restricted to swords horribly cripples it in the postgame when it has nothing truly substantial to make it worth using. I still use my swordmasters, and even when my apotheosis team is finished I will be rocking at least one. That doesnt change how they are utterly outclassed by the assassin class in everything but 2 def and 8 res.Quote:
Also, I find Swordmasters really useful for the added survivability. They survive substantially longer than Assassins, especially against magical foes, and they tend to trend slightly better for me on stats while leveling, before the caps are reached. Plus, they are one of only a handful of classes to get two truly useful skills, even if they can both be passed on to other classes via reclassing.
Hardly. I'm typically against self-inserts anyway as they are either.Quote:
(SPOILER)I also disagree that the Avatar character is bland. If it were, well, that would be a point in favor of blank slate self-insert. But there is a ton of depth of character which comes out in the Supports and DLCs.
A) Bland, which is not a good thing ever. I dont see how this could ever be a point in favor of a self-insert. This should be a point against their very existence.
B) Their own character like MU was, which is fine if you totally disassociate yourself with said character... that you created... and designed... and named...
C) Or are a bad mix of A and B and just end up being "perfect". See: Mary Sue
I didnt have a big problem with MU, but I felt he could have been written a hell of a lot better.
Eh, I think it gets by fairly well thanks to the child paralogues, spotpass units like aversa, priam and the like alongside a good lineup of DLC.Quote:
I think you missed out on the game's biggest flaw, though, which is the lack of endgame content. So many great systems that make customization deeper and more rewarding than in any previous Fire Emblem, but very few places to use them. Thank goodness for Castle Apotheosis, Rogues and Reedemers (on harder difficulties), and the Future Past.
The game is already massive enough as is, but I would agree there arent many places to throw around your limit breaker maxed out units of unholy destruction.
Agreed entirely with that first line, there's a reason I've put hundreds of hours into this game... but...Quote:
The game may not be perfect, but it is still utterly phenomenal.
Also, my Streetpass Team is full of max stat (Limit Broken), weapon-forged, fully skilled units, including an Avatar with max Limit Broken stats in every job and every skill learned. Even with a poor AI, good luck.
^Thats still cake. Pair-up makes things like this easy if you take it slow and smart. Also, it should be noted. You have access to all those skills. The player fighting your spotpass team has all those skills+pair up+forges+supports+dual guard and dual attack and is being controlled by an actual human player.
I obsessively go through and complete the Support gallery on every Fire Emblem game I've played, so I've seen almost all of them. Seeing all the conversations in one game may make them feel more pronounced in Awakening, but believe me, they aren't. Yarne and Kellam are the worst (Kellam is definitely worse than Panne, partially because his quirk is more gimmicky). Tharja even isn't as bad as most characters from previous games.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollHunter
Even if the combat mechanic was solid, and StreetPass teams could team up, why would you ever use it that way? Why would you recruit foes when you can get dozens of better characters through the premade teams (as several of them will have unique skills not normally acquirable by an Avatar)? Why would you fight when enemy teams are a dime a dozen, and random enemies (via Reeking Boxes) on the higher difficulties are going to be more powerful anyway due to the fact that they get double-forged weapons? Since you can only choose one thing to do with each team, the shop is always going to be the better choice.Quote:
That basically proves my point. Using streetpass to fight my friends teams controlled by enemy AI is broken and pointless due to the lack of enemies being able to use pair-up and the enemy AI being basically a bunch of lemmings. Instead of half-assing it they could have put dev time to more important things.Quote:
StreetPass doesn't really work as a fighting system, but why would you want it to? There are enemies aplenty, so rather than fight, you should set your team up to pass rare, powerful, or forged items across in the shop. Lack of online multiplayer is annoying, but hardly crippling to the game.
I use it as a shop myself too as its amazing that way. It's just a shame that its really the only use it has. FE has never really had good multiplayer though (llolLinkArena).
I haven't gotten the chance to try the actual multiplayer (via the Challenge Rooms), but I would like to.
I wasn't arguing blandness in favor of self-insert, I was arguing that, if he was bland, he would be merely filling the role of blank slate fairly well.Quote:
Hardly. I'm typically against self-inserts anyway as they are either.Quote:
(SPOILER)I also disagree that the Avatar character is bland. If it were, well, that would be a point in favor of blank slate self-insert. But there is a ton of depth of character which comes out in the Supports and DLCs.
A) Bland, which is not a good thing ever. I dont see how this could ever be a point in favor of a self-insert. This should be a point against their very existence.
B) Their own character like MU was, which is fine if you totally disassociate yourself with said character... that you created... and designed... and named...
C) Or are a bad mix of A and B and just end up being "perfect". See: Mary Sue
I didnt have a big problem with MU, but I felt he could have been written a hell of a lot better.
Overall, though, I think that they did quite a good job with the Avatar's writing.
Have access to, yes. But you might be surprised just how many players never go that far. I've only found a single StreetPass team so far that even uses Limit Breaker, and that was only on one character on the team.Quote:
Agreed entirely with that first line, there's a reason I've put hundreds of hours into this game... but...Quote:
The game may not be perfect, but it is still utterly phenomenal.
Also, my Streetpass Team is full of max stat (Limit Broken), weapon-forged, fully skilled units, including an Avatar with max Limit Broken stats in every job and every skill learned. Even with a poor AI, good luck.
^Thats still cake. Pair-up makes things like this easy if you take it slow and smart. Also, it should be noted. You have access to all those skills. The player fighting your spotpass team has all those skills+pair up+forges+supports+dual guard and dual attack and is being controlled by an actual human player.
The problems I had with the game were the lack of customization, the absence of verticality, and the basic way they handled order of battle. I understand these things may have always been attached to Fire Emblem's identity in the genre but as someone new to the series, it made Awakening feel very simplistic and even dated.
The story was very cliche but I was able to just enjoy it for what it was, considering that seems par for the course on Nintendo handhelds.
I do agree with the lack of verticality now that you mention it, I think it would add a lot of depth to the combat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
But... what exactly do you mean by the lack of customization if I may ask? Because if you're talking about character customization, there is an extreme amount.
Do you think so? You get to choose a class, equip a couple items as weapons, and maybe select a few secondary skills if you've classed them enough times to fill up the spots (I wasn't able to on my 60 hour playthrough).
But other than that? No armor, accessories, customizing actives and passives or multiclassing. It's really about the same as Shining Force and that was 20 years ago.
During the main story its fairly limited, but the customization doesnt come from accessories. It comes from the child mechanic, supports and pair up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
If you do enough research you can very nicely customize your future child characters depending on who you marry your female characters off to. Do I want this character to be an offense lead? A magic support? Do I want this character to be based around rallying and buffing my other units or perhaps using a few breaker skills to harm the enemies offense with a specific weapon that would otherwise be a huge threat.
Skills and reclassing is where the customization lies, and there are limitless options if you're not boring and go for the most optimal route (And even then, coming up with the most optimized skill sets can be quite fun). There are a ton of character and support options to choose from so you can make some very interesting teams.
The customization isnt that important on normal or hard, but once you hit lunatic(+) you can utilize some creative skill combinations to tackle problems in interesting ways that would have been unnecessary in the lower down difficulties (and probably impractical because normal and hard has far lower enemy density).
Interceptors playthrough on Lunatic+ over on serenesforest shows a great example of this as he utilizes a set of classes and weapons that were previously thought to suck as the key to his success.
Skills, supports, marriage, pair up and the reclassing system of this game provide quite a lot of customization if you're willing to dig your teeth into it and think outside the box.
This has been a very interesting discussion. I can see some of the flaws you guys are mentioning but I don't really care. This game is awesome. The sheer volume of content makes up for the lack of verticality or customization past the standard reclassing.
Until you guys revived this thread I had totally forgotten about the online component of this game. Today I finally went on for the first time and found a ton of awesome equipment, new maps, new battles, and a score of past characters waiting for me to challenge them. So much to do! :mwahaha:
I'm glad that the revival was successful. Thanks to skyblade for making me nearly derail the "what are you currently playing" thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
And I'm with you Del, the negatives of this game dont keep me from adoring it. I only review and criticize the crap out of games that I truly love. If a game bores me I dont typically spend the time to analyze it. But definitely, this game has an absurd amount of replay-ability and thats what keeps me coming back. And being a challenge run loving guy I can really customize some nice challenge runs given the options available. From something simple like no master seal runs to even LTC (lowest turn count) runs theres a lot that can be done here even ignoring the vast amount of post-game content. This game has taken over my life since I got it late December, and I'll probably be playing it for months to come.
This is the "major problem" I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
There is actually a ton of customization in the game.
But it's hard to get to. Reclassing in a game like Final Fantasy Tactics is easy, where you can change classes freely. In Fire Emblem Awakening, you need to earn levels in each class before you can shift again. So reclassing and recustomizing is slow.
Then too, the Skills are another huge part of customization. And to get them, you need to level up in the various classes. So, again, there's a huge investment to the customization.
And the game itself, especially on the lower difficulties, doesn't really reward this customization. If you don't enjoy it for it's own sake (which I do), or take on the few fights and DLCs that require it (Apotheosis, Future Past, and a couple of the StreetPass Paralogues), you probably aren't going to engage in the customization.
It's why I said that there are almost two different games here. The standard game, with the leveling and combat that we're familiar with from the series, and the endgame, with the all-max-stat characters and variable skill and class load outs.
I'm not sure of the best way to correct this. Perhaps allow class changes to happen more freely (as in Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon or Final Fantasy Tactics), and only use Second Seals for reverting levels? Either that, or we need more of the game built to handle the customization that the game allows, at the current pace.
The issue is that being able to easily acquire many of the skills present in this game would completely destroy it in terms of difficulty. To work around this they need to build off of lunatic+ and its broken mechanics to make them work. As in, enemies you face should also have some pretty decent skills to match about what you should have so you dont steamroll everything, but it also shouldnt be so ridiculous that every core strategy simply turns into a turtle-fest.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeThis is the "major problem" I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
There is actually a ton of customization in the game.
But it's hard to get to. Reclassing in a game like Final Fantasy Tactics is easy, where you can change classes freely. In Fire Emblem Awakening, you need to earn levels in each class before you can shift again. So reclassing and recustomizing is slow.
Then too, the Skills are another huge part of customization. And to get them, you need to level up in the various classes. So, again, there's a huge investment to the customization.
And the game itself, especially on the lower difficulties, doesn't really reward this customization. If you don't enjoy it for it's own sake (which I do), or take on the few fights and DLCs that require it (Apotheosis, Future Past, and a couple of the StreetPass Paralogues), you probably aren't going to engage in the customization.
It's why I said that there are almost two different games here. The standard game, with the leveling and combat that we're familiar with from the series, and the endgame, with the all-max-stat characters and variable skill and class load outs.
I'm not sure of the best way to correct this. Perhaps allow class changes to happen more freely (as in Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon or Final Fantasy Tactics), and only use Second Seals for reverting levels? Either that, or we need more of the game built to handle the customization that the game allows, at the current pace.
The staple of FE, that being the permadeath makes things quite difficult to work with. In a game like Disgaea it doesnt need to be afraid of throwing insane enemies at you because of how the character system in that game works. In FE its hard to balance the enemies to be just enough of a threat to kill you if you're stupid, but not so hard as to just permanently kill off your favorite characters in a couple hits (or it turns in to an elite skeleton crew turtle-fest like Lunatic+).
I love the perma death so I dont want to see it gone, but it definitely makes balancing more of a challenge, especially when new mechanics are added to the game. Heck, one could even possibly argue that FE was better off in its more simple times. I'm not sure if I would agree with that notion, but there is definitely some validity there.
I should say that like Del, I don't let these things get in the way of my enjoyment of a very solid and polished game, I only get this deep into the critique because this is my favorite genre and I could talk for days about it.
I think we may be speaking past eachother a bit... You guys talk about mixing classes and skills to produce roles and maxing stats but most other SRPGs have that and so much more built on top of it (and from the get-go), from full equipment loadouts to an array to actives and passives that vastly exceed the 5-max slots of Awakening. I understand if you intend on playing the game for hundreds of hours you have to put a lot more thought into how you take advantage of the systems, of which I admit that marriage and pairing up does add a dynamic to. But for the standard 60-hour playthrough of a typical SRPG, it is very mechanics-lite for this day and age and I can't put it in the upper echelon of its peers.
Actually, allowing free class changing wouldn't change much in terms of abilities. Since you only get new abilities upon leveling up, each character would still only be able to get 4 abilities before hitting the max level and needing to use a Second Seal to reset. One at level 1, one at level 10, one at level 5 promoted, and one at level 15 promoted. Allowing free class changes would just allow more freedom to set up characters for particular fights (or for particular growth bonuses), and more freedom to experiment (which the current system punishes by not letting you revert changes easily).Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollHunterThe issue is that being able to easily acquire many of the skills present in this game would completely destroy it in terms of difficulty. To work around this they need to build off of lunatic+ and its broken mechanics to make them work. As in, enemies you face should also have some pretty decent skills to match about what you should have so you dont steamroll everything, but it also shouldnt be so ridiculous that every core strategy simply turns into a turtle-fest.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeThis is the "major problem" I mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
There is actually a ton of customization in the game.
But it's hard to get to. Reclassing in a game like Final Fantasy Tactics is easy, where you can change classes freely. In Fire Emblem Awakening, you need to earn levels in each class before you can shift again. So reclassing and recustomizing is slow.
Then too, the Skills are another huge part of customization. And to get them, you need to level up in the various classes. So, again, there's a huge investment to the customization.
And the game itself, especially on the lower difficulties, doesn't really reward this customization. If you don't enjoy it for it's own sake (which I do), or take on the few fights and DLCs that require it (Apotheosis, Future Past, and a couple of the StreetPass Paralogues), you probably aren't going to engage in the customization.
It's why I said that there are almost two different games here. The standard game, with the leveling and combat that we're familiar with from the series, and the endgame, with the all-max-stat characters and variable skill and class load outs.
I'm not sure of the best way to correct this. Perhaps allow class changes to happen more freely (as in Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon or Final Fantasy Tactics), and only use Second Seals for reverting levels? Either that, or we need more of the game built to handle the customization that the game allows, at the current pace.
This may make balancing more important, but I don't think it makes balance any harder than most other games. Most Tactical RPGs can kill a character if you're stupid, but very few are unfair about it.Quote:
The staple of FE, that being the permadeath makes things quite difficult to work with. In a game like Disgaea it doesnt need to be afraid of throwing insane enemies at you because of how the character system in that game works. In FE its hard to balance the enemies to be just enough of a threat to kill you if you're stupid, but not so hard as to just permanently kill off your favorite characters in a couple hits (or it turns in to an elite skeleton crew turtle-fest like Lunatic+).
No, Fire Emblem was definitely not better off in the older days. I'll point out again: Weapon Weight. We are well rid of the dark ages of the series.Quote:
I love the perma death so I dont want to see it gone, but it definitely makes balancing more of a challenge, especially when new mechanics are added to the game. Heck, one could even possibly argue that FE was better off in its more simple times. I'm not sure if I would agree with that notion, but there is definitely some validity there.
Balance is not a problem because of perma-death, balance is a problem because of the game's other new mechanics. The complete revamping to the Rescue systems, skill systems, class systems, class stats, Support bonuses... There were a lot of changes in this game, and accounting for all of them is not easy.
I must have misunderstood what you meant by free class change, but im not sure how I misunderstood. I'm on the same page as you now though, so its fine. Completely agreed.
I actually liked the idea of weapon weight, though it wasnt handled super well. Many units just had unusably low con, and thats what made it suck so much. If it had been handled better it would have perfectly fine.
I will concede on the matter of permadeath. You're right, it was the inclusion of so many new and revamped mechanics that just overwhelmed the game. I can definitely imagine that in the future these mechanics will become more cohesive.
Completely unrelated to this discussion though... I just beat lunatic/classic. Oh yes. It took 2 attempts to down the final boss, mostly because I had no forged weapons on my first attempt.
Dat 1HP http://i.imgur.com/CFLXjvu.jpg?1?7030
Oh, quick question. How do you feel about the lack of a magic triangle in this game? I kinda miss it honestly. The lack of light magic in this game made me a bit sad.
When do you guys recommend to promote or reclass units? I've been playing under the 'old FE' approach and waiting until level 20 to use the Master Seal. I haven't really used Second Seals all that much. Now I'm reading something about 'internal levels' and 'cumulative levels' that may indicate it's better to promote/reclass as soon as you can, or as soon as you learn the abilities for that class (at level 10 or 15). :sweat:
Nope. That was initially suspected, but testing and data mining have both confirmed that the only thing the game keeps track of is how many times you have changed class (though I don't remember if it tracks Master Seals for that purpose as well). So the diminishing returns for Experience don't care whether you get to level 10, or level 20, it only cares how often you reclass. Thus, unless you are at max stats for a particular class, it is better to keep going for the maximum level, as that will reduce the number of times you have to reclass, and therefore ensure you get maximum value for your Experience points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
So, lunatic+ is ridiculous.
After like 20 retires and even more resets I beat the prologue in 72 turns.
Chapter 1 was easy though, beat it in like 3 tries and less than ten turns.
Currently have a Lv.9.98 avatar with some decent stats, and chapter 2 is just ruining my night. This chapter is not going well. On lunatic its scary but consistent, here its utterly terrifying and there is no consistency. Putting this down for the night because i dont want to have nightmares about Luna+ and hawkeye.
So, I was wondering if anyone wanted to list their "ideal" match ups. Who do you pair up, and which units do you give priority to when aiming for child units? Do you go for min/maxing stats? Abilities? Or do you just pick pairs you like?
Also, if anyone would be interested in reading, reviewing, and helping improve my Awakening self-insert fanfic, send me a PM.
I don't really have many ideal matchups beside maybe Inigo!Lucina and Owain!Femorgan (though the latter was done on a previous file where Owain was a dread fighter and lets just say Grandmaster + Dreadfighter works very well as far as pair up stat bonuses are concerned).
I tend to pair up my units with people that they can fight well with, though I tend to try and get supports with as many people as possible to give me some flexibility.
As for child units... I give priority to Owain Inigo and Gerome. I would say morgan, but morgan is impossible to mess up so that hardly counts.
On my recent file Im shooting for characters to end up in their base classes, so that has a ton of bearing on my 1st generation pair ups. They need to have the skills to get the job done in their respective class.
For example, on my lunatic post-game file im currently working on I'm going Frederick!Owain to make him a solid Swordmaster. He's best as a VVW Sage or sorc... but that just doesnt fit his character to me.
I tried to optimize ending classes on my previous post-game file, and since I value aesthetics over utility I just didnt enjoy it as much and my team sort of homogenized and became boring. Sure, it was devastating... but whats the point if its not as enjoyable?
Also, why cant flavia and basilio S rank? They're such a good team and its a shame that they cant maximize their support bonuses (though the difference between A and S isnt super far off).
EDIT: Also, Lunatic+ is still deserving of my undying hatred.
The problem is, there is no solid way to implement it. The system just doesn't hold up once you take it out of the conceptual level. Faster but weaker characters (such as myrmidons) tended to be less bulky, and therefore have lower strength and constitution. This meant they couldn't handle the heavier weapons, and only attacked once per attack instead of twice, negating the very thing that was their class focus, speed. It also raised the meta game concerns of "why does this book weigh more than an iron sword" or "why is this character's constitution so high when the individual is as thin as a reed", not to mention the entire mess that Constitution made of the Rescue and Shove systems.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollHunter
It sounds like a neat concept, but I can't really see any way to implement it well. Weaker characters can't wield heavy weapons, and are therefore even weaker when compared to the stronger counterparts, and this is pretty inherent to the way the system operates.
Yep, I think things will be more polished and better integrated in the next game. There is going to be a next game, Nintendo, RIGHT?!Quote:
I will concede on the matter of permadeath. You're right, it was the inclusion of so many new and revamped mechanics that just overwhelmed the game. I can definitely imagine that in the future these mechanics will become more cohesive.
I miss Light Magic. Light Magic is frelling awesome, and Light Mages are typically among my favorite units in the games (at least, from a thematic and combat-usage state). Even without the Trinity of Magic, I miss my Light Magic. Lucius, Renault, L'Aracel, Athos, Micaiah... You guys were awesome.Quote:
Oh, quick question. How do you feel about the lack of a magic triangle in this game? I kinda miss it honestly. The lack of light magic in this game made me a bit sad.
I'm actually going to bring Light Magic back in my fanfic, as well as give a pretty decent explanation as to why there isn't any in Awakening, if anyone is interested.