There's a big ol' discussion about this going on in another thread and it was getting kind of muddled, so here's a fresh new thread for this debate to continue.
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There's a big ol' discussion about this going on in another thread and it was getting kind of muddled, so here's a fresh new thread for this debate to continue.
Tidus, no contest. Don't even get me started.
What's the contest here? Who dresses like the biggest tit? Whose voice is the nasaliest? Best collarbones?
All of the above, and more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Vaan wins weirdest abs.
Well one of them is a useless little ponce whilst Tidus is a fascinating and awesome character.
I came here to say something like this. Tidus is a great character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Adequate
How was there even a debate?
I have to agree. Tidus wins this one hands down.
Well yes, but I think there is some debate because Vaan certainly has better collarbones. You must all surely see that.
But can't you see that his shoulderblades are inferior?Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychotic
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by JinxI came here to say something like this. Tidus is a great character.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Adequate
Yep, Tidus wins it for me.
I honestly do not remember many of the character nuances of anyone from FFXII, except from Bathier who was pretty suave. FFXII was great, but the plots and the characters were pushed into the background for all the endless wandering around.
Tidus is gr8, in my eyes.
Tidus is whiny and annoying, and the worst thing you can say about Vaan (abs aside) is that he's just kind of there and doesn't do a whole lot.
Give me someone who's incapable of being annoying because he didn't really do anything over someone who I wanted to see die for most of the game.
Tidus has way better collarbones.
Vaan's are all narrow and stick up out of his body like they're tall.
I don't like Vaan at all, but at least he's not Tidus.
You effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Not very relevant is always, ALWAYS, preferable to a character so awful he actively detracts from my ability to enjoy a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiroYou effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
As a character, he isn't awful. He's annoying, yes. But his characterization is solid and generally well written.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22Not very relevant is always, ALWAYS, preferable to a character so awful he actively detracts from my ability to enjoy a game.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiroYou effectively sell off any right to a decent story when you side with the character who is two dimensional and pointless. We might as well have controlled Montblanc sitting in the guild for all the relevance he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Whenever they tried to give Vaan a personality or "issues", though, it always felt forced. Vaan never felt like a character to me. And I take far more issue with that than I do with annoyances. Heck, if annoying people were that problematic, I'd be upset at most of the world
When did this happen :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
This scene:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪When did this happen :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
My gosh was that scene horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan
Seriously, who the frell talks like that?
And, frankly, admitting that everything he was doing was acting totally idiotically was not that in character. You can't be a stupid idiot for a hundred hours and then just suddenly realize and admit you're a stupid idiot. You need something to happen to trigger that sort of realization. Then you have to accept it, which is itself a lengthy journey. And THEN you can admit it. Once you've, y'know, actually grown up. You have to actually grow. Vaan never does, he just gets a "eureka" moment, which felt forced, and badly written.
On the plus side, it was memorable. I don't remember much of the individual lines of the script, but even though it's been years, I can still hear him sayingIt was badly written enough to stick with me. IT WILL NOT GO AWAY.Quote:
I'd say stuff like "I'm gonna be a sky pirate"... or some other stupid thing.
Sure you can, I do it like all the time! Especially when I was seventeen. Anyway I think this is actually a good scene showing how he's moving on and growing up. He's trying to get his trout together and help his peeps. Really this is the best opportunity a young Dalmascan from the slums can get I think :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SkybladeThis scene:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪When did this happen :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblade
My gosh was that scene horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaan
Seriously, who the frell talks like that?
And, frankly, admitting that everything he was doing was acting totally idiotically was not that in character. You can't be a stupid idiot for a hundred hours and then just suddenly realize and admit you're a stupid idiot.
Square had to prove they could do something more annoying than the laughing scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
They're both awesome.
Even if he is characterised well at some point, it's not relevant to the actual story. Vaan doesn't fit. His individual bildungsroman is not what we wanted and not what we were by and large given; I think of Vaan as I think of the Player Character in White Knight Chronicles: he's your avatar and is only there to be your viewpoint character.
Tidus might harp on about it being his story, and he might be wrong and it is Yuna's story, or all of their stories, but the point is that he's still relevant, and he still undergoes subtle and obvious changes, and there is actual agency from the character. Final Fantasy X is about the party going on a pilgrimage and stopping Sin. Final Fantasy XII is about... something? About the Occurria versus Vayne Solidor? It's not about the party, not really, as Vaan and Penelo are irrelevant, and Fran is only relevant because she has ties to Balthier.
Penelo is relevant due to her relationship with Larsa. Not very relevant, but it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
Fran is there as miss exposition. If you need something explained, or someone to act completely bonkers due to an "instability in the Mist", she's your gal.
I will say though, in Vaan's defence, that he is far more relevant in Revenant Wings than Tidus is in X-2. Tidus is a smurfing MacGuffin there.
Most annoying part of the game, but still less annoying than Tidus's presence throughout the whole of FFX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Freya
I'm going to have to hand it to Tidus as well. Primarily because I don't remember anything about Vaan because I quit FFXII halfway through out of sheer boredom.
Thus, regardless of how annoying Tidus is (and he doesn't annoy me very much), he at least has a personality that I can remember!
I'm with Vivi22 on this one. I mean, you can go on about "but a personality is good for the story!" all you like - I like to immerse myself in the story and if I immerse myself next to Tidus, I would want nothing more than for him to suffer an extremely bloody, extremely quick death. Quick because it would mean I have to spend less time looking at his annoying self, listening to his annoying self, and pretty much dealing with his annoying everything.
Vaan, on the other hand, I could at least handle being around for more than ten seconds.
There is a scale going from great to neutral to terrible. Vaan is neutral, Tidus is terrible.
With all that said... Tidus would obliterate Vaan if it were an actual fight. I just think Tidus is way too strong for Vaan.
Vaan is an inoffensive non-entity and the story recognizes as such.
Vaan.
Not often we agree with eachother on FF things. Not sure how I should feel about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Loony BoB
But I will say, I wouldn't want Tidus to receive a quick death. I think I'd actually enjoy listening to his whining if it was the result of him being slowly skinned alive, or me cutting him open and having a feel of his internal organs. :radred:
*sigh* Is it really a lack of tolerance that causes this abnormal hate for Tidus' personality?
There's no such thing as abnormal hate for Tidus' personality.
I like them both. Well Vaans abs are creepy....
Well, I don't know about you, but I think Vaan needs to put up a shirt...
Tidus is filled with energy, tell great stories, and even have a great personality that always lifted my spirits. So that being said, I'm going with Tidus on this debate. :)
Fight: Tidus
Most Annoying: Tidus
More Pointless: Vaan
Better End: Tidus
Better Voice actor: Vaan
Tidus wins 3 out of 5...or until I think of more stuff to compare them between.
I can't believe that people hate Tidus1 so much that they're willing to to count Vaan as the better character2.
You're giving them point for negative things as well as positive things? I don't understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elskidor
I would just strongly prefer if Tidus didn't exist at all. At least Vaan is tolerable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiro
I honestly find Tidus and Vaan's voice actors to be incredibly similar.
Funny thing is I once saw Vaan's voice actor on an episode of Veronica mars and instantly knew it was him!
I really like both, I think X and XII are both easily up for greatest game ever made. If I had to pick one maybe Tidus, just because the emotional connection is so much stronger. Vaan's pretty dope though.
If Tidus didn't exist, the main plot of Final Fantasy X would be fundamentally altered. If Vaan didn't exist, Final Fantasy XII would run very similarly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz
If Tidus didn't exist, maybe I wouldn't have had to play FFX.
You say this like it's a bad thing. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by JiroIf Tidus didn't exist, the main plot of Final Fantasy X would be fundamentally altered. If Vaan didn't exist, Final Fantasy XII would run very similarly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigmafuzz
*Sigh*
The Occuria keep showing Vaan and Ashe visions of their loved ones, "killed" by the Empire to fuel their hatred of it. Vaan was supposed to act as their failsafe if they couldn't get Ashe to do what they wanted. They did not know, however, that Vaan would be the first to overcome his lust for revenge (hence he stopped seeing Reks' vision earlier than Ashe stopped seeing Rasler's). Him not seeing the vision anymore was what made Ashe question her desire for revenge. Basically, if Vaan wasn't here and didn't reach his own conclusions, Ashe could have easily become Ivalice's equivalent of Hitler. To those who said Vaan was completely pointless - did we even play the same game?
As for Tidus - I don't mind him being an annoying :bou::bou::bou::bou:. What I hate about him is his forced character development. One event does not make your personality do a 180, especially if you were a spoiled brat all your life. I think Vaan's (unvoiced) thoughts that make him reach conclusions about himself are far more real that Tidus' switch to a selfless knight from a self-obsessed idiot. I know I've assessed myself the way Vaan did numerous times and I've yet to do something like Tidus.
Vaan FTW.
Vaan's translation makes sense from start to finish. *Punts FFX for ruining the great mortality reveal*
Similar to White Wizard, I felt Vaan was more plausible - if not quite the same entertainment value or self-assumed knighthood. Worst part of Vaan was his nose...
Not even close. Even if you can't stand Tidus, at least he makes sense as a main character within the context of the narrative. Vaan is to the story of XII as tits are to a bull.
I really like both of them :shobon:. Vaan's abs creep me out and Tidus laugh creeps me out but I liked them.