Square Enix Crack Down on Fan Made TYPE-0 Patch

An amateur team of Final Fantasy and Square Enix fans working on a patch to translate Final Fantasy Type-0 from Japanese to English and Spanish have been issued legal threats from Square Enix to cease their project immediately.

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"Unfortunately I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project. That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans. For the time being I can’t answer questions related to this matter, but I’ll write a more comprehensive post about all this once I get the chance."

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It isn't completely terrible news, as Type-0 has been confirmed for a western release. It is, however, a shame for the team who have worked hard on the patch but it is understandable that Square Enix want to keep their product under wraps for their own localised release.

What are your thoughts on this? Are Square Enix right to shut down the project?

[source]

EDIT: Wait, is this just a translation and nothing more, or is the guy hacking the game and "releasing" it with English language? If the former, that's pretty low of SE. If the latter, I don't see a problem with it.

What people always think of other people's legal and intellectual property.

Saw this coming a mild away. I feel sorry for the group that has been working their asses off to make the patch, free of charge, while dealing with ungrateful fans telling them to "hurry up" more than I feel any kind of sympathy for Square. For the longest time it didn't look like Type-0 was going to get a Western release date, period. So the patch was the only way for fans to enjoy the game unless they wanted to learn Japanese. They could have at least been like, "Hey guys, thank you for showing your support. Since we'll be bringing this game over you don't have to continue with this project anymore." Instead of plain right threatening them. I sincerely doubt the patch being available was going to turn people off from buying the game. You know what is likely to put people off from buying the game?

This.

Edit: It's just a translation, BoB.

Yeah the threats worry me.

Still, it shows just how much the fans want this game! (I do hope it's not troute)

Reading the comments in the linked page is painful. Definitely a few reasonable people on both sides of the debate, but some deleted comments here and there along with a lot of people raging at the reasonable.

So long as it's just a warning and, should Sky stick with closing down his end of things, it goes no further, then I don't see the problem. Hard to say what it is right now, though.

Many Japanese games are released in the West after a long time and this is something someone must see coming. Not just translating/rewriting the text of something and bringing it out in public is also against the law. That is even written in instruction manuals of (certain) games.

If the guy's post is any indication:

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Unfortunately I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project. That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans

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Sounds like more than just a warning.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Many Japanese games are released in the West after a long time and this is something someone must see coming. Not just translating/rewritten the text of something and bringing it out in public is also against the law. That is even written in instruction manuals of (certain) games.

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Do other Japanese game companies take three years after having fans wait eight years and counting for a spinoff game that turned into a main numbered entry because it's been eight years?

I'm not going to argue the legality of the issue, because there's nothing to argue there, but it'd be nice if publishers could show more tact.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Do other Japanese game companies take three years after having fans wait eight years and counting for a spinoff game that turned into a main numbered entry because it's been eight years?

I'm not going to argue the legality of the issue, because there's nothing to argue there, but it'd be nice if publishers could show more tact.

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If you ask so, yes, there are multiple games that came out after years have passed. And if Kingdom Hearts Final Mix would have been translated and released you can be sure Square Enix would have done the same thing to protect their 1.5 HD ReMIX. I am not even sure how legal streaming Final Fantasy on Twitch is because the manuals say you may not publicly, no matter through which medium, show the copryrighted product. Though Twitch might be an exception as it is such a big thing now and probably means more future buyers.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

If the guy's post is any indication:

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Unfortunately I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project. That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans

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Sounds like more than just a warning.

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"Threat" is the very definition of your standard C&D that gets given to anyone as a warning. False accussations is something we can't verify and is possibly a matter of opinion at present. Either way false accusations are unrelated to hard legal action such as being sued. I've yet to see if this is anything more than "Dude, take it off your site, no more." Hard to really judge without getting more information from Sky.

SE have sent a C&D to a lot of sites in the past and this really doesn't come across as anything shocking to me.

Square could have handled it better with a gentle reminder or something instead of threats. As far as concern, some hardcore fans and the image of the company will be affected which is not beneficial to the company's cause.

EDIT: I think ToriJ nailed it. :lol:

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

They could have at least been like, "Hey guys, thank you for showing your support. Since we'll be bringing this game over you don't have to continue with this project anymore." Instead of plain right threatening them.

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Legality or no, I do think Square Enix could have been more softer in their approach. They have every right to make them stop the patch, seeing how they are releasing it to the West now (thereby making a patch redundant, essentially), but it's just how they've went about stopping it that isn't going to win them favors, really.

I wonder how other large Japanese developer-publishers handle stuff like this? And also how Western developers deal with translations in other countries... although I imagine there is less income to be made in those kind of situations.

This seems like a fairly unique situation based on my brief research, in that they are translating a game for one console but the game is now being released on a different console in the language being translated to. Not sure I can find any kinds of precedent for this one.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Do other Japanese game companies take three years after having fans wait eight years and counting for a spinoff game that turned into a main numbered entry because it's been eight years?

I'm not going to argue the legality of the issue, because there's nothing to argue there, but it'd be nice if publishers could show more tact.

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If you ask so, yes, there are multiple games that came out after years have passed. And if Kingdom Hearts Final Mix would have been translated and released you can be sure Square Enix would have done the same thing to protect their 1.5 HD ReMIX. I am not even sure how legal streaming Final Fantasy on Twitch is because the manuals say you may not publicly, no matter through which medium, show the copryrighted product. Though Twitch might be an exception as it is such a big thing now and probably means more future buyers.

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Main reason I ask is because the average Japanese game takes a year at most to come over, so three years seem a little long by comparison. That might be because publishers planned to localize it from the start, though. I can't remember how recently Square decided they were going to make an official English translation.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

If the guy's post is any indication:

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Unfortunately I’m forced to remove my posts and pages related to the popular Final Fantasy Type-0 fan translation project. That’s right, certain game company thinks that threats and false accusations are the way to treat its biggest fans

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Sounds like more than just a warning.

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"Threat" is the very definition of your standard C&D that gets given to anyone as a warning. False accussations is something we can't verify and is possibly a matter of opinion at present. Either way false accusations are unrelated to hard legal action such as being sued. I've yet to see if this is anything more than "Dude, take it off your site, no more." Hard to really judge without getting more information from Sky.

SE have sent a C&D to a lot of sites in the past and this really doesn't come across as anything shocking to me.

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Ah. I have my definitions of "threats" mixed up, then. I still don't agree with a C&D being the first response in this case.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I wonder how other large Japanese developer-publishers handle stuff like this? And also how Western developers deal with translations in other countries.

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I doubt many of them would be any better, to be honest. I know Kojima was pretty cool about a Metal Gear remake fans were working on a little while back.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Main reason I ask is because the average Japanese game takes a year at most to come over, so three years seem a little long by comparison.

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That is all nice but it doesn't void being protected by copyright and if I can read such things even in instruction manuals it should be easy to not get in trouble.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

That is all nice but it doesn't void being protected by copyright.

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Nor did I make that claim, so I don't know what you're arguing. The whole reason this came about is because Square's fans wanted to play the game. They weren't making money off of it, they weren't doing it for profit, they were doing this because of a love for Final Fantasy and from their perspective they pretty much just got dumped on. This is why I'd endorsed a gentler approach unless the person proves to be flat out unreasonable. If they were doing this to rip them off it'd be another story, but like most similar cases, they weren't. And like most similar cases, the holders of the copyright weren't hurting that badly.

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Nor did I make that claim, so I don't know what you're arguing.

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I don't argue, I said that to make the point, that there is no arguing.

Square Enix are a Japanese company. Japanese business ethics aren't exactly renowned for being tactful or softhanded, and PR is often not given as much precedent as Western consumers are used too from Western companies (just look how long it's taken Nintendo to adjust to a more westernized style of marketing etc.). Such cultural differences are often overlooked. Japan is very different to most western countries.

Aulayna makes a really valid point. Up till now, I can't really figure out the Japanese culture and their beliefs. It is really complicated and goes way back into the past. :gator:

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

Ah. I have my definitions of "threats" mixed up, then. I still don't agree with a C&D being the first response in this case.

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It's pretty standard as the first "go-to" thing for every company in the world, fans or otherwise. I mean, a certain site/forum that we all happen to post in may have received a C&D from Square-Enix a long time ago for hosting ROMs. :shifty: We took it on the chin and removed them at the time, and I for one never felt EoFF was threatened when it happened. Hell, they give us stash to give away these days!

Eh, makes sense for them to C&D. They're releasing an English version, why not try and crack down on the possibility that they will lose out on sales in future because of this.

They're a little late. I mean, the patch was available and widely distributed even before their announcement of the English release. And, to be fair, it was just a patch, and you need the game files for it to do you any good.

It wasn't even as though the guys doing the translation were being subtle about it. There was some pretty heft coverage for the year and a half that they were working on the translation.

Anyway, if anyone wants the patch, I've got it downloaded already. Send me a text. If you need a copy of the game to patch, you'll have to import one though.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

They're a little late. I mean, the patch was available and widely distributed even before their announcement of the English release. And, to be fair, it was just a patch, and you need the game files for it to do you any good.

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Just for clarification, do you know if people were acquiring the game files by purchasing a legal copy of the game from Japan and just using the patch so they could understand it?

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

They're a little late. I mean, the patch was available and widely distributed even before their announcement of the English release. And, to be fair, it was just a patch, and you need the game files for it to do you any good.

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Just for clarification, do you know if people were acquiring the game files by purchasing a legal copy of the game from Japan and just using the patch so they could understand it?

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Most people were downloading the game to emulate using a PSP emulator and then patching it with the patch to change the JP text to EN.

I get why they'd protect their property. I don't know what they've done to this guy, but I hope they haven't been unreasonably harsh to him given that he's not trying to make money off this.

I imagine the translation process is a lot more work than the actual hack needed to put the new translation in. Is it against the law to translate a work of fiction for personal use?

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Originally Posted by ToriJ

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

They're a little late. I mean, the patch was available and widely distributed even before their announcement of the English release. And, to be fair, it was just a patch, and you need the game files for it to do you any good.

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Just for clarification, do you know if people were acquiring the game files by purchasing a legal copy of the game from Japan and just using the patch so they could understand it?

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You could do that, but you can't just apply the patch to an UMD like that. You would first have to extract the UMD to your computer, then run a patch program that would alter the contents, then move the filessback to the PSP. Now that it has been altered, the PSP will no longer run it, as its digital cryptological signature is detected as false because the files have been altered. This means you can only run the game with a PSP that accepts unsigned code, also known as a hacked PSP with a custom firmware.

It would be at least 50 times faster to just download an ISO of the game and run the patch directly on that, then move it over to a CFW PSP, because CFW PSPs run pirated games anyway, that's why probably no one would actually pay for the game to play it in english.

Or as aulayna said, just use an emulator.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I imagine the translation process is a lot more work than the actual hack needed to put the new translation in. Is it against the law to translate a work of fiction for personal use?

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Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD has it written it may not be edited, translated or anything. I see no reason why I would not be the same with another Final Fantasy.

While I don't agree with the approach SE has taken because that's just no way to treat your loyal fans (if it wasn't for profit), if SE had announced that they would be releasing the game overseas at some later point, I don't see why the rush to play the game and take on a project like this. Now I don't know when SE announced they would make a western release, I don't really have this game on my radar, but if the announcement came after the fans announced this project, SE could have been more respectful in its approach.

edit: didn't see the second page of this conversation. so if the patch was done before announcing a western version, they are pretty late on the matter. If no money was being made, and if translating wasn't illegal, then I don't see why they have to be harsh on the guys.

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Originally Posted by Mahad

While I don't agree with the approach SE has taken because that's just no way to treat your loyal fans (if it wasn't for profit), if SE had announced that they would be releasing the game overseas at some later point, I don't see why the rush to play the game and take on a project like this. Now I don't know when SE announced they would make a western release, I don't really have this game on my radar, but if the announcement came after the fans announced this project, SE could have been more respectful in its approach.

edit: didn't see the second page of this conversation. so if the patch was done before announcing a western version, they are pretty late on the matter. If no money was being made, and if translating wasn't illegal, then I don't see why they have to be harsh on the guys.

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http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-fan-...sco-1608340061

This is an interest read about it.

That was interesting. Sounds like this sky guy knew that they were going to announce it and so he released the patch early so they'd get some notoriety. Otherwise they'd get ignored with the big official release. Sounds like SE tried to intervene and work with them but hmm.

Not surprised, specially since they announced it's HD re-release on PS4/XBONE.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

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Originally Posted by Mirage

I imagine the translation process is a lot more work than the actual hack needed to put the new translation in. Is it against the law to translate a work of fiction for personal use?

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Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD has it written it may not be edited, translated or anything. I see no reason why I would not be the same with another Final Fantasy.

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I didn't know that. However, whatever a company chooses to write on their covers or in their software manuals does not override a country's own laws, so I'm still not sure if he was doing something that could be punishable by Spanish law (they were spanish, right?).

I know for example that even if a CD explicitly stated that copying, even for personal use, is forbidden, that doesn't make it illegal for me to take copies for personal use in Norway. The key word is of course personal, and what i was going to suggest was that perhaps the translator (or translators) should have kept quiet about it and done it for personal use (allegedly), then suddenly "someone" would hack them and steal their translation and make a patch in a shorter time than SE could react. Once it's been released to the internet, there is no way to make it go away, after all.

In either case, it is a shame that their hard work ended with a C&D, but at the same time, that is the only reasonable thing for SE to do when they are themselves going to release the game officially localized. They should have said it in a nice way, though.

Apparently they had and this was the last course. Apparently they had been in contact with him for months.

I retract my previous statements about Square, then. Sounds like they tried to be reasonable after all. My heart goes out to the rest of the team who kind of got spat on by Sky.

Even more things I did not know. Where do you get this info ;o

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Even more things I did not know. Where do you get this info ;o

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Aulayna posted http://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-fan-...1608340061/all back on page two.

i'm still on the first page :p

but all right, seems like i missed that post

Just a side note, I followed/am following the translation and patching of Valkyria Chronicles 3 and Shining Blade PSP games that SEGA has been refusing to release to the West, and an interestingly large number of fans had actually purchased those games and imported them, to rip and patch. That way they could get their translation and still support the developer. I heard bits and pieces about this project as well, and while I don't think as many people did this, I believe a decent portion of the fans were doing this. Some of the videos I had watched online were from imported copies waiting to be patched. Most of those people said it was so fun that it was worth playing with the language barrier in place, just because it was so fun, and they couldn't wait for the translation patch

That being said, I heard about the translation LONG before I heard that Square had finally decided to bring the game over. Hell, I was under the impression they made that decision simply because of the positive response garnered by the fan-translation happening. I imagine Bravely Default had something to do with their decision as well. Regardless, it's an old game, released on a dead system, that was never initially brought over, nor was there ever any plans to bring over the initial game

I have little sympathy for either parties. Square is just trying to cash in from what I can tell, and Sky handled things all wrong from most accounts. But regardless of how things fell out, the fans are getting what they want in the end either way. So a win for them. I was never really interested in the game to begin with. But I may check it out. Though I'll probably join Skyblade with this patched translation. Just to spite the whole situation ¬_¬ Then again, I don't imagine I'd really enjoy the game, and would merely need to taste test it, and as it stands, there's no legitimate way to "rent" it, so meh

Ooh, that Kotaku article. Square can do PR after all! Sky sounds like a douche, sue the pants off him boys! Eagerly awaiting the next installment that shows Square sent thugs to Sky's house to kneecap him, but then it's revealed Sky burned down an orphanage, which it's later found out to be the one he grew up in and it was run by Sorceress Edea.

After finally getting the chance to read that Kotaku article, I can only shake my head at Sky for how he acted. There's an interesting comment by someone in the translation community on the article, too, which really shows how much Sky got it wrong. Not to mention going against his colleagues to release the patch early without discussing it with them. Geez. Why do you think he would have done that without discussing it with them if he wasn't aware of What Was To Come?

Yeah, I hadn't read that article before my comment. It sounds like Sky wanted his time in the spotlight, and if the game got released, then he wouldn't have the praise he wanted from his fans. It was no longer about just getting the game, but about getting credit for the work. All that hard work was about to just be voided out and he so he released it so everyone could gobble up and praise his name and whatnot. That's the impression I'm getting anyway

I think Square could have solved a lot of problems by not being so coy and evasive. Too many companies do this crap, and this is the problem it causes. They should have told everyone they had a half-translated version done, and they should have told everyone they were putting it on hold to release for the next generation. Everyone would have been happy. Impatient maybe, but satisfied at least. Other than Sky, that's all anyone on the translation team probably wanted anyway

I have never held a high opinion of Square Enix in general. They are just lucky to have such a good game/series and blessed to have so many people who love it!

I'm generally of the opinion that a company can do whatever they want with their own IP, even if that includes having tight control over it. It's theirs, they have a lot invested in it, and they have to please their stake/shareholders - so quality control over IP is fairly important and I could definitely see how this could affect potential sales of Type-0.

That and it seems the guy translating it was a dick anyways.

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Originally Posted by Aelitalily

They are just lucky to have such a good game/series and blessed to have so many people who love it!

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It's not luck and being blessed. It's decades of large financial investment and bucket loads of extremely talented designers, programmers, musicians, artists, etc., and lots of focused marketing.

It's their game, they made it, and if they want to sue the guy who hacked it and released it without their consent, then they have legal grounds on which to do so.