i think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the Final Fantasy series everything thing about him the way he looks the way he talks and the way he fights who eles agrees?
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i think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the Final Fantasy series everything thing about him the way he looks the way he talks and the way he fights who eles agrees?
That's your opinion. In my opinion, Sephiroth is the one of the worst FF villains. He's, well, a mamas boy. I personally think Kuja is the best villain.
Seconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuffie the Dragon Ninja
Sephiroth wasn't necessarily a bad villain, but to me, he was nowhere near being the best villain in the series.
As for my favorite........gee, I dunno. I guess I don't have a favorite villain. :D
I would have to vote for Kefka. He was truly psychotic and didn't go crying on about his mommy or dressing up as a harlot.
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Originally Posted by Yuffie the Dragon Ninja
I think he's an okay baddi but that's about it
(does any one know where i can download one-winged angel?)
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Originally Posted by Maiyo_Yoem
here
cool thanks
i think seifer and jecht were good enemies
i guess i think its good if theres a link with the protagonist
Pfffftt... Garland's the best villian. He WILL knock you all down.
Since the only games I have played from start to finish are VII and VIII I would have to vote for Sephiroth. Seifer looks like an emo kid compared to him.
Siefer isnt the main FF8 villian though. Of course he doesnt compare to Sephy. Plus I'd say Sephy is more emo. The black outfit screams emo kid at me.
Spoken for truth.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
Oh no this thread is gonna end about as well as a "Aeris is better than Tifa" thread :shifty:
I personally like Sephiroth a lot :jess: I just like him... He functions the same as every other villain, so I don't see what's wrong with him. But I also played VII back before there was hype about VII.
no its not! im surprised nobody has agreed with me I think he’s the worst because what he done to Aeris
I cant think of any other character brutally killing someone like that in the series but hes one of my favourite characters.
I think Kefka brutally killed more people than Sephy, what with destroying the world and such.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
So Sephiroth was truly a kick ass character. Deep, Dark, Deceptive, Angry, he had all the picture perfect traits of a villian.
Kefka...PLEASE, I have said this many times, he is the most retarded villian ever, when he is taking over the world all I could do was laugh and ask how such a moron took over the world.
Kuja, Valid argument, however, I have yet to finish FF IX.
Seifer, He can't be, he was a puppet of Ultimecia.
Now Ultimecia, thats a villian that took many forms throughout space and time. Because she wanted to take over the world, in ALL time periods, she is a candidate for a good villian, but not the best.
I think its between Kuja and Sephiroth
http://media.g4tv.com/images/imagedb2/321/32187_L.jpg
Kefka-craziest FF villian ever, thats why I love him.
Sephiroth is a mama's boy.
Come now, Sephiroth had the ability to summon a super nova that could wipe out the universe in 3 minutes, yet he settled on a big rock that would hit in 7 days.Quote:
Kefka...PLEASE, I have said this many times, he is the most retarded villian ever, when he is taking over the world all I could do was laugh and ask how such a moron took over the world.
Besides, you don't even need to go and defeat him to 'save the world'. It only hits if you go to him. Why bother?
Sephiroth is a good villain, but in my opinion, not the best.
He have the looks, the music, cool powers, and the mystic(he was misteryous) going for him.
But he was not the best one, because he don't have everything that make a villain be a good villain.
He don't have almost any personality(he is evil, arrogant, and that's all), don't have ANY reason to do what he did(after gaining the knowledge of the Lifestream, he knew that he was not a Cetra. But he want to become a God anyway, just because he want more power), and don't have any cool, memorable quotes.
I think that his look, the music, the mistery, and the fear that everyone feel for him in the game, create an atmosphere around him, that make him cool. And this is why me and many other people like him. But if you remove all of this, and only look to the character itself, you will see that he is not that great.
Ah, and he have the nostalgic feeling going for him too(he was the first RPG villain for MANY people).
This is my opinion.
Kuja was the best. He distroyed a whole world with one spell. yay!
Plus, He has reasons behind everything he did and kills more people then seph.
Seph killed: 1 Backwater village worth (And some pain in the butt little girl)
Kuja killed: 1 city and a whole world :)
yay kuja :)
Just what is so friggn' cool about the man? He isn't, ok? Just deal with it.
1) He never fought the chars directly until the very end. Before that he always made Jenova fight you. What kind of man sicks his mother on his enemys?
2)He's insane. We all know this, so lets not pussy-foot around it. He's cunningly insane, yes, but the point is he's not mentally stable. And you can't take an insane man seriously.:nonono:
3)Yeah, sword was nice. But that's the extent of his coolness. He's just another long-haired pretty boy. It seems to me that saving the world means finding the right long-haired pretty boy and beating him up. I mean, what kind of 'cool' man walks around with waist-length hair? Certainly not a secure one.
4)He has major ego problems. He runs around with a shiny sharp piece of metal, clinging to mommy and out to destroy the world. He must be so depressed that he feels he has to destroy the world as well as him self in his suicide attempt.
5)Becoming a god thing is nothing new. (if you've ever read Dragonlance, you know what I'm talking about.)
(:hourglas: this ring a bell?)
And this is the man that people claim is so cool? Crap, I must be missing something, because he sure doesn't seem that awesome to me. He made gave the bad guy image a twist, sure. But he doesn't deserve even an eighth of the credit that people give him. Sheesh.
(and for crying out loud, somebody oppose me.)
He was pretty neat. He was an okay villain.
Gotta love that sword...:cat:
This is just as bad as the people who like him too much, you know.Quote:
1) He never fought the chars directly until the very end. Before that he always made Jenova fight you. What kind of man sicks his mother on his enemys?
2)He's insane. We all know this, so lets not pussy-foot around it. He's cunningly insane, yes, but the point is he's not mentally stable. And you can't take an insane man seriously.
3)Yeah, sword was nice. But that's the extent of his coolness. He's just another long-haired pretty boy. It seems to me that saving the world means finding the right long-haired pretty boy and beating him up. I mean, what kind of 'cool' man walks around with waist-length hair? Certainly not a secure one.
4)He has major ego problems. He runs around with a shiny sharp piece of metal, clinging to mommy and out to destroy the world. He must be so depressed that he feels he has to destroy the world as well as him self in his suicide attempt.
5)Becoming a god thing is nothing new. (if you've ever read Dragonlance, you know what I'm talking about.)
( this ring a bell?)
I'm just getting REALLY tired of people going on about how awesome he is. I made that post to try to get people to shut up about how much they like him before they even got the chance to say it. Because this thread isn't about that and doesn't need that.
Here's what I find tiring: Everybody parading their opinion around like a law. He likes Sephy and wants to say so, he has the right to that just like you have the right to say you don't. There's no reason to look at each other and say "Nobody cares! Keep it to yourself." It's a forum for discussion about Final Fantasy, and you are in the Final Fantasy VII section of the forum in a topic dedicated to liking Sephiroth. What did you expect? "IX is great"?
This is exactly why half the members here don't even bother coming into the lower half of the forum anymore. It's just full of people arguing and saying "This FF is the best, this character is the best, this song is the best, and everybody who thinks otherwise is ignorant of all things and should burn to death." Nobody wants to put up with it.
And that goes for anti-people and pro-people. You like Sephiroth, and that's fine, but he isn't your husband and you don't have to show loyalty to him and hate everything else. Sephy won't feel cheated on if you also like the other villains for what they are.
If you like Kuja, that's fine. But it's the same. Why the obligated loyalty? Do you think Kuja will be pissed if you don't compare other villains to him and find them inferior by default? The characters and villains are different because that makes it interesting. Kefka isn't supposed to be Sephiroth, Sephiroth isn't supposed to be Kuja, and Kuja isn't supposed to be Seymour. I'm not saying you can't have a favorite; it's natural to have a favorite. I'm saying don't pick a favorite and feel obligated to bash all the others.
Just relax...They're games... They are meant to be enjoyed, not studied and picked apart and viewed with a Roger Ebert eye of criticism.
Sephiroth is fine as a villain. So is Edea or Seifer, so is Kuja, so is Seymour... Pick your favorite, but why hate the others?
And the same goes for the flip side. Sure, pick your favorite, but don't pretend like he's the best thing since pickles either. "SEPHY > ALL" is just as annoying as "SEPHY IS EMO and suxx LolLolololol". If you like Sephiroth as a villain that's fine but don't hate Kuja because he's "not Sephiroth" for crying out loud.
In short, let's all just get along :jess: It's Final Fantasy not politics. People who justify their opinions by bashing others look just as ridiculous as people who are so wrapped up in fanboy they refuse to hear other's opinions at all. It's all ridiculous. Now look at the kitty and feel at peace and play the games, don't study them. :cat: Aww, kitty makes it all better.
:beer: well said Lunar.Quote:
Originally Posted by LunarWeaver
thirdified.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaebusSeconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuffie the Dragon Ninja
sephiroth is a good villain but its all about his backstory and past and he really doesn't do much or have personalities and schemes that make him better than the other villains. a great villain but not the best.
Fixed for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by boys from the dwarf
And LunarWeaver, very well said.
Very nice LunarWeaver.
IMO he's one of the best.
He did more evil things than almost any other villain I can think of. Torching a village, wiping out the Shinra building, and leaving the President dead on his chair was crazy. And then he killed Aeris. Sure, X-Death did this before him, but he actually jumped down and impaled her.
We have come to terms.
I much prefered Kuja to Sephiroth.
Sephiroth had one of the best battle music things ive ever heard and at least he didnt look like a clown and yes he is stupid using a meteor that takes a few days to drop when he has a spell that destroys a whole universe (apart from him somehow) and him normaly with his sword looks cool but the final form of him with the 1 wing looks a bit odd and hes a b*tch to defeat but to me hes my fave coz he was the 1st baddie in an FF game coz VII was my 1st.
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Originally Posted by cHRISTMAS
good villain? yes...best villain?
GARLAND forever
Please don't bash me, because it's only my first time through, and i'm only near the beginning of disk two, but Sephiroth is soooooo boring. he never battles you, he tells you his plans, and he sends his mom to do his dirty work. what kind of person does that? i much prefer Garland, where theirs some sort of mystery to him, even at the end of the game.
erm.... no, he didnt, he was in the northern crater the whole time in that place where Cloud goes to when he gives him the Black Materia, the person you saw all those times was Jenova...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
name on antagonist that isnt insane...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Not that I want to be picky but dont you mean Dragonlance LegendsQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
I personally think people give him credit because he actully killed a main character, again I may be wrong but thats just my personal opinionQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
You got it :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Sephiroth's plan wasn't to destroy the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by G3ORGE
It was to have an impending threat so harsh that the planet's energy would gather at one point, where he would be waiting.
Which, as he said, did happen. Except it was at Midgar, not the northern crater.
But when he takes all the energy the planet dies Buenhagen said lol pretty funny he missed tho lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarSephiroth's plan wasn't to destroy the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by G3ORGE
It was to have an impending threat so harsh that the planet's energy would gather at one point, where he would be waiting.
Which, as he said, did happen. Except it was at Midgar, not the northern crater.
he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
Yeah, but you have to admit that this was a little disapointing. I mean, everything that you hear about Sephiroth in the begin of the game, is about his power and strenght. Everyone say how powerfull and invincible he was. And then, when you finally meet him, the guy run away during half of the game?! And in the second half he is hiding behind a barrier?!Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud21zidane16he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
Okay, he has good motives to do this, but i think that Square could have made something in the story, to show a little more of Sephiroth's power.
sephiroth pwns.............jus sayin....its true....
Even though I've never played FF7 I do have a general knowledge of the story and I've seen AC.
He's alright as a villian.
he wasnt running away he was heading to his ultimate goal, your team just happened to be chasing him and second if you had the whole world against you and you could eve fight them or sit and relax behind a safe barrier what would you choose:)Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalYeah, but you have to admit that this was a little disapointing. I mean, everything that you hear about Sephiroth in the begin of the game, is about his power and strenght. Everyone say how powerfull and invincible he was. And then, when you finally meet him, the guy run away during half of the game?! And in the second half he is hiding behind a barrier?!Quote:
Originally Posted by cloud21zidane16he cant really battle you anyway because he isnt actually around till after the whirlwind maze and after that i think it makes it better to wait until the final showdown:fencing:Quote:
Originally Posted by jammi567
Okay, he has good motives to do this, but i think that Square could have made something in the story, to show a little more of Sephiroth's power.
but yes i do agree that we couldve of seen more of him, i think the game focused far too much on his past than what his actually like when youre chasing him around the world
I think Sephiroth is the best villain because of the way he wasn’t to begin with, he was a great soldier who people respected and looked up to and he was so sure of himself but when he found out the truth about what doctor Odin had done it destroyed him he turned to the dark side when he burned down Clouds hometown. But in some ways you can understand him, not him burning down the town but the way he turned and became a villain that’s why I think he’s the best bad guy.
Dr.Odin? I thought it was hojo?Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
even i dont think sephy was the best! hes a cool character and everything.......i like him, but not as being the best villian
What do u think the game would of been like without Sephiroth? i dont think FF7 would work without him. Your right it was HOJO i got him mixed up with doctor Odin out of Final Fantasy 8 hes another mad scientist!
http://drumlinheights.ednet.ns.ca/cmt12/sarahc/kuja.gif
He is the only FF to (SPOILER)sucessfully destroy a world!
Also he's got the best freaking rants!
he looks like a girl
Yeah so? You got a point there? He had great rants, his Trance was awesome, and (SPOILER) I destroyed a planet, and killed the ENTIRE party!
The best baddies is still Kuja or Kefka.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
That is exactly what I said. He made is mother fight you! Coolness? I think not.Quote:
erm.... no, he didnt, he was in the northern crater the whole time in that place where Cloud goes to when he gives him the Black Materia, the person you saw all those times was Jenova...
Any movie/book/game(including FF7) with an evil scientist in it. They're actually very smart and twistedly evil. Not insane, because their ideas are works of geinus.Quote:
name on antagonist that isnt insane...
No,no...that's just a steroytype. Long haired people can be cool; my own hair is 2 feet long! (remember, I'm a girl) And not all goths have long hair; just black hair. All of the goths at my school have black hair. Not really long. Spiked, mowhawk, or a bad fight with some scissors, the hair isn't long. I'm just saying that the pretty-boy bad guy's nearly always have long hair and I find that a guy with long, flowing hair does much to make them seem less badas*. (does he brush it everyday!? What shampoo does he use to get that wonderful shine?!) See what I mean?Quote:
sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.
Never clinged to his mommy? What the heck are you saying? He went off to destroy the world to give it back to his mother!!!Quote:
He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.
(Wait....destroy...to give back....You see this is where the insanity is coming in and really making things weird!!!)
A rock that big won't simply wound the planet, it'll kill every living thing on the earth. And by doing that, the planet itself. So it wasn't a very good plan now was it? An asteroid is about the size of a building-the Black Materia finds small drifting planets! If an asteroid wiped dinosuars on this earth, a small planet would, unfailingly, destroy the earth.
Reliying on mommy again...Besides he killed all the other 'clones'. Not that he could really use them for anything; they were just about useless. And he could've just killed cloud and co. to get the materia; he didn't have to control cloud to hand it to him.Quote:
With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.)
Now there's something I've noticed in all my long years of playing D&D. The wizards really kick as*. In one session, we stumbled upon about 25 ogres. My fighter was having a heck of a time with them. My brother, who has a wizard, flew into the air on the back of a summoned dragon and placed about 8 expanded, enlarged and empowered fireballs on the whole field where the ogres were and all of the fireballs overlapped at a point. The ogres were completley exterminated. One other time, we ran into 14 centaurs. One fireball fried them all, before I even got a chance to draw my sword!! That is pretty amazing. So just because someone has a sword and an evil plan, doesn't make them ulitimately badas* and powerful. Being a wizard/magic-user takes at least as much, if not, far more skill than a fighter/swordsman. Never underestimate the wizard. For that is true strength beyond all the boundries of reality.Quote:
And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.
And yes, I was talking about the Dragonlance Legends, but it's all Dragonlance nonetheless..
And thank you for opposing me!! Now it's starting to be fun!
Correct me if I'm wrong, but for your brother Wizard, would he not have to spend atleast 1 round preparing the spells? A fighter with quick draw could easily interupt the spell if he successfully hit him. Sorry for going off topic.
No. You see the spells are prepared before time and only a little bit, the very end of an otherwise long and complicated spell, need to be said to activate the spell. Thus, with only a few words, a wizard can cast a spell 8 pages long. And if a fighter does manage to hit the wizard, the wizard has to make a concentration check, which failing is very small, since any good wizard invests a lot of ranks into concentration and takes the Combat Magic feat.
That's not his mother. It's not even an entity separate from Sephiroth mentally. It's an extension of himself, sent to do his bidding while he gathered power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Genius and insanity are NOT mutually exclusive. Not to say that you are incorrent, but Hojo, for example, was bat[img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img][img]/xxx.gif[/img] loco.Quote:
Any movie/book/game(including FF7) with an evil scientist in it. They're actually very smart and twistedly evil. Not insane, because their ideas are works of geinus.Quote:
name on antagonist that isnt insane...
The man can kill you without mussing his do. That's decently badass.Quote:
No,no...that's just a steroytype. Long haired people can be cool; my own hair is 2 feet long! (remember, I'm a girl) And not all goths have long hair; just black hair. All of the goths at my school have black hair. Not really long. Spiked, mowhawk, or a bad fight with some scissors, the hair isn't long. I'm just saying that the pretty-boy bad guy's nearly always have long hair and I find that a guy with long, flowing hair does much to make them seem less badas*. (does he brush it everyday!? What shampoo does he use to get that wonderful shine?!) See what I mean?Quote:
sorry I may have misinterprated this but are you saying that people that have long hair cant be cool? dont forget that they most likely designed him to be like a goth and admitidly most goths have long hair... I dont have any problem with his image.
The Dino Killer was larger than Meteor. Meteor was also moving at slower speeds.Quote:
Never clinged to his mommy? What the heck are you saying? He went off to destroy the world to give it back to his mother!!!Quote:
He never 'clinged' to his 'mummy' his plan was to become a god by bringing in a Meteor which would threaten the life of the planet and when the planets life is threatened the lifestream wells up at that wound, and in order to do that he needed Jenova's help. With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.) And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.
(Wait....destroy...to give back....You see this is where the insanity is coming in and really making things weird!!!)
A rock that big won't simply wound the planet, it'll kill every living thing on the earth. And by doing that, the planet itself. So it wasn't a very good plan now was it? An asteroid is about the size of a building-the Black Materia finds small drifting planets! If an asteroid wiped dinosuars on this earth, a small planet would, unfailingly, destroy the earth.
And no, Sephiroth was NOT destroying the world to give it back to his mother. He was doing it for himself. At one point when he thought he was an ancient, he was doing it to revenge the atrocities done to himself and what he thought was his mother, but by the time the game starts, it's all about the Sephy.
HE WAS JENOVA'S MIND. JENOVA WAS HIS PUPPET, HIS MINION, HIS TOOL.Quote:
Reliying on mommy again...Besides he killed all the other 'clones'. Not that he could really use them for anything; they were just about useless. And he could've just killed cloud and co. to get the materia; he didn't have to control cloud to hand it to him.Quote:
With Jenova he had the ability to exert some control over those who have Jenova cell's inside them (like for instance when Cloud hands over the Black Materia to Jenova at the Temple.)
Quote:
And TBH I think its better to kill people with the skill of a sword then just to blast the away with magic/summons/statues in the game he was a living legend, like Cloud said: Sephiroth's strength is unreal. He is far stronger in reality then any story you might have heard about him.
Never underestimate the rogue or the monk.Quote:
Now there's something I've noticed in all my long years of playing D&D. The wizards really kick as*. In one session, we stumbled upon about 25 ogres. My fighter was having a heck of a time with them. My brother, who has a wizard, flew into the air on the back of a summoned dragon and placed about 8 expanded, enlarged and empowered fireballs on the whole field where the ogres were and all of the fireballs overlapped at a point. The ogres were completley exterminated. One other time, we ran into 14 centaurs. One fireball fried them all, before I even got a chance to draw my sword!! That is pretty amazing. So just because someone has a sword and an evil plan, doesn't make them ulitimately badas* and powerful. Being a wizard/magic-user takes at least as much, if not, far more skill than a fighter/swordsman. Never underestimate the wizard. For that is true strength beyond all the boundries of reality.
And Wizards are only as good as the person playing them. I've known MANY a horrible wizard in my day.
By the by, what about spellblades, eh? Y'know, sword AND sorcery?
Of course, any mage is only good so long as their spells hold out, and they have a nasty tendency to run out.
Yes, one of the lowest powered setting in D&D...Quote:
And yes, I was talking about the Dragonlance Legends, but it's all Dragonlance nonetheless..
Just getting started. You WILL be knocked down.Quote:
And thank you for opposing me!! Now it's starting to be fun!
Requiring at least a standard action (a large chunk of any turn), unless they waste spell slots in order to reduce that casting time.Quote:
No. You see the spells are prepared before time and only a little bit, the very end of an otherwise long and complicated spell, need to be said to activate the spell. Thus, with only a few words, a wizard can cast a spell 8 pages long.
And any good fighter should be able to hit the Wizard enough that the CUMULATIVE concentration check will be an issue.Quote:
And if a fighter does manage to hit the wizard, the wizard has to make a concentration check, which failing is very small, since any good wizard invests a lot of ranks into concentration and takes the Combat Magic feat.
Of course, I much prefer the silencing strike. Unless you silented all your spells, a damn waste of spell slots, you have none.
In all honesty, most of the other FF villains carried out more evil acts (and usually eviller acts) then Sephiroth did, the two ones coming immediately to mind being Kefka and Kuja. Now, while I think Sephiroth was one of the best villains because of personality, goals, or power (again, I think Kefka and Kuja beat him), I DO think he was one of the best villains merely for the sake that I thought he was a fairly cool villain.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Actually, if memory serves right, Sephiroth wasn't upset with Hojo but Dr. Gast, as it was Gast's writings that he read that allowed Sephiroth an initial idea of what he was.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Technically, Kefka DID destroy the world; he didn't completely annihilate it like Kuja did, but he sent it spiralling into such disarray and had destroyed so much of the planet it that he practically had destroyed it. Still, Kuja easily ties with Kefka for my favorite FF villains, and I agree whole-heartedly that Kuja has the best rants of every villain in the series. After about seven years, I still have that rhyme he says at the beginning of disk three stuck in my head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
Apart from being the first villan I killed (at the grand age of two, thanks to my dearly beloved game-playing father), he was also the very essence of badass. It's too bad he was extremely easy to beat. :(
I think sephiroth was the hardest to beat aswell Kuja was easy i beat him first time as for garland you dont even fight him!
Garland is the first boss in FF1. He also turns into Chaos, the final boss.
Neo Ex-Death was the hardest Final Fantasy endboss, in my opinion. Kefka was the best villian.
You fight two garlands for a total of three battles (Garland, Chaos, G9)Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
thanks for filling me in i thought everyone was on about that old guy Garland out of 9 with zidane and vivi
Oh boy, not this again. Yes we know that Jenova wasn't his actual biological mother. We got that. But I'm using 'mother' (Jenova) because that's what he constantly reffered to her as. I'm just going with the flow, in this case. Besides, it has been agreed upon that the sephiroth you see throughout the game is just Jenova, controlled by sephiroth, in a different form.Quote:
That's not his mother. It's not even an entity separate from Sephiroth mentally. It's an extension of himself, sent to do his bidding while he gathered power.
Oh, yes he was insane. Cunningly insane, but still insane. And, of all things, insanity does not make one cool. (a red cape does!) but not insanity.Quote:
Genius and insanity are NOT mutually exclusive. Not to say that you are incorrent, but Hojo, for example, was bat loco.
Considering that he didn't really have any hair style to mess up...it still does not make him cool.Quote:
The man can kill you without mussing his do. That's decently badass.
If the 'dino killer' was bigger than meteor then please, do explain how an asteroid is bigger than a small planet!Quote:
The Dino Killer was larger than Meteor. Meteor was also moving at slower speeds.
And no, Sephiroth was NOT destroying the world to give it back to his mother. He was doing it for himself. At one point when he thought he was an ancient, he was doing it to revenge the atrocities done to himself and what he thought was his mother, but by the time the game starts, it's all about the Sephy.
And sephiroth said that he was going to give the planet back to his mother. I believe it was in the flashback. So it was all about him destroying the world for his mother.
Please reread the quote you were replying too.Quote:
HE WAS JENOVA'S MIND. JENOVA WAS HIS PUPPET, HIS MINION, HIS TOOL.
When you look at the potential each class has, they're all very badas*. Each deserves respect.Quote:
Never underestimate the rogue or the monk.
And Wizards are only as good as the person playing them. I've known MANY a horrible wizard in my day.
By the by, what about spellblades, eh? Y'know, sword AND sorcery?
Of course, any mage is only good so long as their spells hold out, and they have a nasty tendency to run out.
If what you say about wizards and the player is true, then I'm afraid you have yet to meet an actual experienced wizard class player.
Spellblades are very nice no doubt. But they're that nice because they combine magic with the sword. Not the other way around.
And as for your slam at the spells, wizards have a good number of spells, esp., if you take the time to scribe some scrolls, have a high intelligance score, and know how to manipulate the given amount of spells well. It all takes some careful planning and calculations, but it is well worth it. And wizards are not useless without any spells if they have a natural strength score of 17. I don't even use spells half the time. I tend to use more spells in areas other than battle.
Do explain. A dragon orb, grimoire, epic weapons, artifacts...seems pretty powerful to me.Quote:
Yes, one of the lowest powered setting in D&D...
Let the games begin.Quote:
Just getting started. You WILL be knocked down.
That's because you have to take a metamagic feat which use up an insane amount of slots. And please remember that if you're going to cast a spell, you shouldn't be in a position where you have to move in the same turn. And once that spell is cast, you shouldn't have any problems to require moving in the same turn.Quote:
Requiring at least a standard action (a large chunk of any turn), unless they waste spell slots in order to reduce that casting time.
My good sir, you have been using the wizard incorrectly. A wizard stays away, preferably, from the main concentration of battle, letting opponents come to him and pick them off as they charge at him. And any good wizard has already prepared and protected himself against any attacks and any good wizard kills the fighters before he lets them reach him.Quote:
And any good fighter should be able to hit the Wizard enough that the CUMULATIVE concentration check will be an issue.
Of course, I much prefer the silencing strike. Unless you silented all your spells, a damn waste of spell slots, you have none.
And the Silent spell feat takes up only a spell slot one level higher. Rather cheap considering that Explosive Spell takes up a slot 3 or 4 spell levels up.
I am still deciding who my favourite villain of FF is.
But Sephy will still be high on my list as he was my first.
Kefka was the best villian, in my books anyway. He was the only one that was a complete psycho from start to finish. There was no questioning his good side, because there was none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowy
Kuja, FFIX Spoiler: Seemed like he finally changed at the end, but it was too late by then.
Sephiroth: His loyalty to Jenova bugged me, just like as if he were a puppet such as Cloud. Also, Sephiroth was too mellow for a villian. He just killed people and moved on.
Then, I don't know about Garland, Zeromus was just a blob so it was hard to determine whether or not I hated or liked him. Um...Yu Yevon, same thing, except with 8 legs. ANd then, mm, that's it.
Kefka wins! He was undoubtedly the bad guy, and was not going back.
While Sephiroth was an excellent, well-developed villian, I don't think he was the best in the series. He was probably second best to Kefka.
You see, Sephy was noble, in a sense. He was doing what he thought was right. He wasn't trying to do evil. He was doing "justice" and all that.
Kefka was just purely insane. He was evil for the sake of evil. He killed people just to hear their screams. His reason for being was to prolong hatred and suffering, not some noble cause.
As far as the gameplay bit goes, I do like Sephy more. I thought it was a better fight. Plus, it's all packed up with the sweet mondo Omnislash at the end of the whole thing, which was awesome. But you get the phases of the fight, and the trading off between parties, and the showdown with Savior Sephiroth, complete with Supernova, which is awesome looking. And it's really not as devastating as I once thought it was.
But music, I'd go with Kefka. Dancing Mad is WAYYYYYYY cooler than One Winged Angel. I'm not saying that OWA isn't a good song; it is. But Dancing Mad is WAYYYYYYYY better.
When a person just loses it, there is no true rhyme or reason to what they do. But I agree; he killed things then moved on. whoopee. *yawns*Quote:
Sephiroth: His loyalty to Jenova bugged me, just like as if he were a puppet such as Cloud. Also, Sephiroth was too mellow for a villian. He just killed people and moved on.
Yeah, killing a whole town and burning it to the ground is the definition of "justice". :)Quote:
Originally Posted by feioncastor
Which does not refute, and actually supports my assertion that Jenova is merely an extension of Sephiroth himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Red Herring much? The point was about genius and insanity not being mutually exclusive, not coolness.Quote:
Oh, yes he was insane. Cunningly insane, but still insane. And, of all things, insanity does not make one cool. (a red cape does!) but not insanity.
Though again, Insanity is also not mutually exclusive with coolness.
You just keep on telling yourself that.Quote:
Considering that he didn't really have any hair style to mess up...it still does not make him cool.
Meteor was not the size of a small planet. In fact, It's not signifigantly larger than Midgar. And, as mentioned, it's not moving as fast. In fact, it actually was just sitting around, casually destroying Midgar. Unless it's got a death star inside, it's not going to planetbust.Quote:
If the 'dino killer' was bigger than meteor then please, do explain how an asteroid is bigger than a small planet!
And then he decided to do it for himself once he learned the truth.Quote:
And sephiroth said that he was going to give the planet back to his mother. I believe it was in the flashback. So it was all about him destroying the world for his mother.
And?Quote:
Please reread the quote you were replying too.
Oh, you want I should address the rest of it? He didn't kill the clones, they fell by the wayside- and as for why he wanted Cloud alive- he says it himself- he wants the boy to suffer.
I never said that. I said that a wizard is only as good as the player. Same as a fighter. If you know the rules, you can easily make a melee character no spellcaster can hope to contest.Quote:
When you look at the potential each class has, they're all very badas*. Each deserves respect.
If what you say about wizards and the player is true, then I'm afraid you have yet to meet an actual experienced wizard class player.
Quote:
Spellblades are very nice no doubt. But they're that nice because they combine magic with the sword. Not the other way around.
Exactly. It is the player, not the spells, that makes the spells tactically worthwhile.Quote:
And as for your slam at the spells, wizards have a good number of spells, esp., if you take the time to scribe some scrolls, have a high intelligance score, and know how to manipulate the given amount of spells well. It all takes some careful planning and calculations, but it is well worth it.
And how often does this happen? And yes, even with 17 str, the Wizard devoid of all its spells will be horrendously hosed.Quote:
And wizards are not useless without any spells if they have a natural strength score of 17.
So you don't wizard in battle. What do you do in battle, then?Quote:
I don't even use spells half the time. I tend to use more spells in areas other than battle.
Oh pish tosh. You've said nothing that's not common to most premade settings, and damn near omnipresent once modules, homebuilds, etc. get brought in. Heck, basic greyhawk has all that stuff, and then some.Quote:
Do explain. A dragon orb, grimoire, epic weapons, artifacts...seems pretty powerful to me.
First up, dodge the falling rocks competition. See you once it's complete.Quote:
Let the games begin.
Under perfect circumstances, this may be true. Guess how often perfect circumstances come up?Quote:
That's because you have to take a metamagic feat which use up an insane amount of slots. And please remember that if you're going to cast a spell, you shouldn't be in a position where you have to move in the same turn. And once that spell is cast, you shouldn't have any problems to require moving in the same turn.
If you assume perfect conditions, it's no wonder you don't see the issue. Battle rarely starts with the wizard in such a priveliged position. Needless to say, one can, and has often, snuck up on a wizard in the middle of pitched battle.Quote:
My good sir, you have been using the wizard incorrectly. A wizard stays away, preferably, from the main concentration of battle, letting opponents come to him and pick them off as they charge at him. And any good wizard has already prepared and protected himself against any attacks and any good wizard kills the fighters before he lets them reach him.
And the Silent spell feat takes up only a spell slot one level higher. Rather cheap considering that Explosive Spell takes up a slot 3 or 4 spell levels up.
I didn't mean to refute. It's common knowledge who and what Jenova is and her connection to Sephiroth. But then the debate is over the whole biological mother and psychological mother relationships. And that will never end. I was just trying to end a perpetual argument it before it started.Quote:
Which does not refute, and actually supports my assertion that Jenova is merely an extension of Sephiroth himself.
Nope, Vincent. And any other baddy with a red cape in a movie or game. ( a surprising amount.) It seems that if one has a red cape, they are automatically elevated to a state of ultimate coolness.Quote:
Red Herring much? The point was about genius and insanity not being mutually exclusive, not coolness.
Though again, Insanity is also not mutually exclusive with coolness.
I never called Sephiroth genius-he certainly isn't if he's going to destroy the world with him on it. I just called him clever.
But it's true.Quote:
You just keep on telling yourself that.
Aeris says otherwise. (lol) It's not moving as fast because they had to have a big dramatic ending scene in where all your efforts may have gone to waste. And then of course the drop-off ending. It's all about the suspense! Called director's license.Quote:
Meteor was not the size of a small planet. In fact, It's not signifigantly larger than Midgar. And, as mentioned, it's not moving as fast. In fact, it actually was just sitting around, casually destroying Midgar. Unless it's got a death star inside, it's not going to planetbust.
refer to first quote and response on this post. That was what I was trying to get through, with less words.Quote:
And?
Oh, you want I should address the rest of it? He didn't kill the clones, they fell by the wayside- and as for why he wanted Cloud alive- he says it himself- he wants the boy to suffer.
Exactly. And judging from what you've said, you've yet to meet an experienced player.Quote:
I never said that. I said that a wizard is only as good as the player. Same as a fighter. If you know the rules, you can easily make a melee character no spellcaster can hope to contest.
I'm glad we agree.:)Quote:
Exactly. It is the player, not the spells, that makes the spells tactically worthwhile.
My wizard has has a str of 17. (very useful) You'd be surprised at how often this does happen.Quote:
And how often does this happen?
Not if you know what you're doing. This is where that str and dex come in, and the Ambidexterity feat. (Start whallopin' with that staff!:twak:) as well as any magical items. You're given the Scribe Scroll feat for a reason; why not use it for times like these, when you're out of spells? And don't forget Spell Mastery. This will bail you out of many situations.Quote:
And yes, even with 17 str, the Wizard devoid of all its spells will be horrendously hosed.
Oh, I use spells. But not exclusively spells as my only weapon. My spell storing staff, and, believe it or not, potions. Not 'spell' potions, just acid and nitroglycerin. Lovely stuff. In a serious battle (dragon, hello!) That's when I whip out the higher spells, not neccessarily attack, but more often than not, something that seriously handicapps the monster. That way all the other party members can benefit as well. Once this is done, let the lighning bolts fly.Quote:
So you don't wizard in battle. What do you do in battle, then?
*shrugs* whatever; it all depends on what level you start at. (a good amount don't start at 1, surprisingly enough.) But keep in mind a lot of those were made for players that are twinks. If it didn't have that stuff in it, it wouldn't be 'awesome' enought to bother playing. (in the majority opinion) It doesn't really matter here though. Let's end the Dragonlance bit, shall we? I'm afraid we may be getting a bit off topic.Quote:
Oh pish tosh. You've said nothing that's not common to most premade settings, and damn near omnipresent once modules, homebuilds, etc. get brought in. Heck, basic greyhawk has all that stuff, and then some.
:exdee:Quote:
First up, dodge the falling rocks competition. See you once it's complete.
Factor in the other player whaling on the same monster, pretty often. Besides, you can only take a 5-foot step in the same round you cast a spell. That doesn't do you much, unless you cas Expiditious Retreat. And you have to cast the spell that will lever you into such an ideal situation. Don't wait for these circumstance to come up: make them happen.Quote:
Under perfect circumstances, this may be true. Guess how often perfect circumstances come up?
Unless 1-you are going to the battle, not ambushed, and 2-if you are ambushed that's what the skills and feats other than magic ones are for, and 3-stay in the middle of the group, chances are better you'll end up in such a position.Quote:
If you assume perfect conditions, it's no wonder you don't see the issue. Battle rarely starts with the wizard in such a priveliged position. Needless to say, one can, and has often, snuck up on a wizard in the middle of pitched battle.
Like I said, make your conditions the way you want them. Manipulate the monsters-it's not about how much damage you can do; it's about what you can do without dealing damage or using attack spells. Spider Climb will become a very useful spell in nearly any situation, as well as invisibility, charm monster, hold person/monster, blindness/deafness, etc.
As for the part about sneaking up on a wizard-that's what familiars are for!
Alright. I misunderstood. People misconstruing the Jenova/Sephy dynamic irks me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
I'm not saying that red capes don't make you cool, just that such a statement is rather irrelevant. I also don't recall ever trying to make the claim that Sephy's a genius. I personally don't think many FF villians are geniuses, excepting Yu Yevon, the Garlands, and maybe Zeromus. And sephy wasn't planning on destroying the world, he was planning on wounding it to such a degree that it would shunt all available energy to healing, energy which he planned to absorb and become unto a god.Quote:
Nope, Vincent. And any other baddy with a red cape in a movie or game. ( a surprising amount.) It seems that if one has a red cape, they are automatically elevated to a state of ultimate coolness.
I never called Sephiroth genius-he certainly isn't if he's going to destroy the world with him on it. I just called him clever.
long hair, especially bishy style hair, is hard to make do what you want with it. Killing you without mussing himself at all, especially given his style, is decently impressive.Quote:
But it's true.
Dialogue Uber Alles! Aerith can be wrong, or speaking in a different sense, such as "Kill everything on the surface", instead of "make planet explode".Quote:
Aeris says otherwise. (lol) It's not moving as fast because they had to have a big dramatic ending scene in where all your efforts may have gone to waste. And then of course the drop-off ending. It's all about the suspense! Called director's license.
Also, there's director's license, but I prefer suspension of disbelief when analyzing fiction.
Fair enough.Quote:
refer to first quote and response on this post. That was what I was trying to get through, with less words.
No, I've met plenty of good players, who can utilize the mage well. This does not, however, mean that the mage is teh uber. It means they can utilize the mage classes well. Similarly, they can utilize the fighter classes well. At the high end, they tend to cancel each other out. It's Monk and Psion that tend to get broken at high end, once they start getting real esoteric stuff people can't counter that well.Quote:
Exactly. And judging from what you've said, you've yet to meet an experienced player.
Which has kind of been the point all along.Quote:
I'm glad we agree.:)
To you, it might happen a lot. I personally have rolled near all 18's for character creation before, and made a Scoundrel who could kill a much ubered Emperor Palapatine with his bare hands twice in as many turns (don't ask). The thing isQuote:
My wizard has has a str of 17. (very useful) You'd be surprised at how often this does happen.
Scribe takes time, money, and Xp to do. Anyone can use magical items (and thanks to the artificer, the mage has become slightly redundant in their creation). Now, the mage can try for melee, but he will be very very bad at it compared to any other class out there.Quote:
Not if you know what you're doing. This is where that str and dex come in, and the Ambidexterity feat. (Start whallopin' with that staff!:twak:) as well as any magical items. You're given the Scribe Scroll feat for a reason; why not use it for times like these, when you're out of spells? And don't forget Spell Mastery. This will bail you out of many situations.
I hope you take precautions against that nitro. But I can understand the sentiment. Even though I like taking my characters down certain paths, I do prepare backups, like the Unarmed specialist scoundrel whose primary form of assault was a gun that could only be called a pistol by the slimmest of margins (he had also made it even more destructive than it usually was, but nevermind that).Quote:
Oh, I use spells. But not exclusively spells as my only weapon. My spell storing staff, and, believe it or not, potions. Not 'spell' potions, just acid and nitroglycerin. Lovely stuff. In a serious battle (dragon, hello!) That's when I whip out the higher spells, not neccessarily attack, but more often than not, something that seriously handicapps the monster. That way all the other party members can benefit as well. Once this is done, let the lighning bolts fly.
Fair enough, though I wouldn't call greyhawk made for twinks. It's just kind of the rome for all D&D. Eventually everything winds up there.Quote:
*shrugs* whatever; it all depends on what level you start at. (a good amount don't start at 1, surprisingly enough.) But keep in mind a lot of those were made for players that are twinks. If it didn't have that stuff in it, it wouldn't be 'awesome' enought to bother playing. (in the majority opinion) It doesn't really matter here though. Let's end the Dragonlance bit, shall we? I'm afraid we may be getting a bit off topic.
Yeah, if there's only one monster. Most DMs I've found like peppering the party with other monsters at the same time.Quote:
Factor in the other player whaling on the same monster, pretty often. Besides, you can only take a 5-foot step in the same round you cast a spell. That doesn't do you much, unless you cas Expiditious Retreat. And you have to cast the spell that will lever you into such an ideal situation. Don't wait for these circumstance to come up: make them happen.
Even going into battle, you can start at seriously reduced ranges, such as any interior battle, or when circumstancesQuote:
Unless 1-you are going to the battle, not ambushed, and 2-if you are ambushed that's what the skills and feats other than magic ones are for, and 3-stay in the middle of the group, chances are better you'll end up in such a position.
Oh right, Familiars. They can also be snuck up on. And if you kill them, bad things happen to that wizard.Quote:
Like I said, make your conditions the way you want them. Manipulate the monsters-it's not about how much damage you can do; it's about what you can do without dealing damage or using attack spells. Spider Climb will become a very useful spell in nearly any situation, as well as invisibility, charm monster, hold person/monster, blindness/deafness, etc.
As for the part about sneaking up on a wizard-that's what familiars are for!
Spider Climb is useful, both as a spell and ability, invisibility quickly becomes underpowered as everything gets to detect you somehow other than sight at later levels, charm monster has a built in limit that the monsters you really want to charm generally exceed (to say nothing of the ones that are smegging immune). Hold can be quite useful, and so can blindness/deafness, but none of those have a particularly difficult save, so hope they roll low.
His appearance can make him the best bad guy in the series...but the part he played in the series I doubt that he is the best bad guy...I felt that Sephiroth...was defeated too easily...even in FF7 AC...
Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)
Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.
Well, the red cape thing was kind of an attempt at humor. And I was saying that whole thing with sephiroth and being smart ect, because I was saying that being insane doesn't make you cool. ~Reno~ said to name one evil guy that isn't insane, and I said 'mad' (supposedly) scientists aren't because their ideas could actually work in some cases. (unless it's got some magic in it then, no it wouldn't work and yes, they are insane. But that's the exception.Quote:
I'm not saying that red capes don't make you cool, just that such a statement is rather irrelevant. I also don't recall ever trying to make the claim that Sephy's a genius. I personally don't think many FF villians are geniuses, excepting Yu Yevon, the Garlands, and maybe Zeromus. And sephy wasn't planning on destroying the world, he was planning on wounding it to such a degree that it would shunt all available energy to healing, energy which he planned to absorb and become unto a god.
As for sephiroth's plan...let's just say that there was too much room for error to work exactly the way he wanted it too. So much more or much less damage would have been wrought, more likely the former.
Bishy? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the term. Or did you mean bushy? Hmm. It always seemed to me that he didn't have a hair style, he just wore it 'freestyle' if you will. Thus my claim that he didn't have a hair style to mess up.Quote:
ong hair, especially bishy style hair, is hard to make do what you want with it. Killing you without mussing himself at all, especially given his style, is decently impressive.
Well just rub it in, getting 18's all the time. I have yet to roll an 18, I'll have you know! (lol).Quote:
To you, it might happen a lot. I personally have rolled near all 18's for character creation before, and made a Scoundrel who could kill a much ubered Emperor Palapatine with his bare hands twice in as many turns (don't ask). The thing is
What version do you play? In my book, it doesn't take XP, just money and time. As too the artificer, I'm afraid I don't know that one. btw, do you play just d20 or classical as well?Quote:
Scribe takes time, money, and Xp to do. Anyone can use magical items (and thanks to the artificer, the mage has become slightly redundant in their creation). Now, the mage can try for melee, but he will be very very bad at it compared to any other class out there.
Yeah, that nitro is some serious stuff to be carrying into battle. I keep it in a darkwood case, lined with velvet and padded with the softest wool I could fined. Cost me a bit to get the case made but at least I don't fall down and get blown up wit my own potion! :eek:Quote:
I hope you take precautions against that nitro. But I can understand the sentiment. Even though I like taking my characters down certain paths, I do prepare backups, like the Unarmed specialist scoundrel whose primary form of assault was a gun that could only be called a pistol by the slimmest of margins (he had also made it even more destructive than it usually was, but nevermind that).
Hmm, true. Then you attack the monster nearest to you. (and I know about the multiple monsters; 3 rust monsters are not fun to deal with, especially when your just about the only one that can fight them)Quote:
Yeah, if there's only one monster. Most DMs I've found like peppering the party with other monsters at the same time.
er...I think you got cut off for some reason. As for the seriously reduced ranges, mage armor can be your best friend here, as well as shield, blur and displacement.Quote:
Even going into battle, you can start at seriously reduced ranges, such as any interior battle, or when circumstances
Yeah, but then the monster has to make 2 rolls if you have your familiar looking out for you. (psedodragons are very nice; a little stuck up, but nice.)Quote:
Oh right, Familiars. They can also be snuck up on. And if you kill them, bad things happen to that wizard.
Spider Climb is useful, both as a spell and ability, invisibility quickly becomes underpowered as everything gets to detect you somehow other than sight at later levels, charm monster has a built in limit that the monsters you really want to charm generally exceed (to say nothing of the ones that are smegging immune). Hold can be quite useful, and so can blindness/deafness, but none of those have a particularly difficult save, so hope they roll low.
Sorry, I meant to type see invisiblity. Charm monster isn't that good for higher level monsters, true, but it may be enought to stop them from dealing a killing blow. And considering my brother (the DM) is rolling for the monsters, and his rolls are notoriously bad (I believe there's something wrong with his dice or he's very unlucky) the monsters usually roll low. But that's just my group.
What about darkvision, suggestion, chill touch, and daze and it's kindred spells? Those are very useful.
Seph was one of my personal favorites mainly because he was psychotic yet at the same time highly intelligent.
Far from the best though.
awwww,i-love-Sephi,he's-the-BEST!!!!!!!!!*my-opinion,please-dont-kill-me
i-dont-think-he's-toooo-psychotic,he's-cool,so-o-well
I liked Sephy the best, plus him and Braska's Final Aeon have the best Songs.
I'm presuming he knew how Meteor would work from his trips both through lifestream and the temple, and knew it would leave the world intact enough and blow'd up enough for his purposes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Bishy, as in Bishounen. Usually defined by being incredibly long yet incredibly in control.Quote:
Bishy? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the term. Or did you mean bushy? Hmm. It always seemed to me that he didn't have a hair style, he just wore it 'freestyle' if you will. Thus my claim that he didn't have a hair style to mess up.
I don't get them all the time. Just often. For example, in a recent session, I nearly killed my party with a band of first level commoners simply because they rolled well enough.Quote:
Well just rub it in, getting 18's all the time. I have yet to roll an 18, I'll have you know! (lol).
Mostly 3 and 3.5, with hedging between the two. I also play non d20 as well.Quote:
What version do you play? In my book, it doesn't take XP, just money and time. As too the artificer, I'm afraid I don't know that one. btw, do you play just d20 or classical as well?
Not entirely sure the case would help that much, but ::shrug::Quote:
Yeah, that nitro is some serious stuff to be carrying into battle. I keep it in a darkwood case, lined with velvet and padded with the softest wool I could fined. Cost me a bit to get the case made but at least I don't fall down and get blown up wit my own potion! :eek:
I know exactly what you mean, since I as a monk had to deal with several once.Quote:
Hmm, true. Then you attack the monster nearest to you. (and I know about the multiple monsters; 3 rust monsters are not fun to deal with, especially when your just about the only one that can fight them)
Mage Armor and shield are good, yes, but they actually go to waste on you compared to most of your party unless you really need them. I've always thought displacement lasted too shortly to be useful, and anytime you get high enough where it lasts long enough, you can pick up magic item for it instead.Quote:
er...I think you got cut off for some reason. As for the seriously reduced ranges, mage armor can be your best friend here, as well as shield, blur and displacement.
Actually, it still only makes the one. You just get another chance to try and beat his sneaky.Quote:
Yeah, but then the monster has to make 2 rolls if you have your familiar looking out for you. (psedodragons are very nice; a little stuck up, but nice.)
When the hell was the last time I ran into an invisible enemy? I can't say it's a bad spell, but it's only useful when the foe vanishes.Quote:
Sorry, I meant to type see invisiblity.
Darkvision is the village bike, and can be gotten permanently with a feat or class. The other spells are nifty, yes, but remember, my position is "Mages are not teh ubar" not "Mages are teh suck". Bards are generally teh suck.Quote:
Charm monster isn't that good for higher level monsters, true, but it may be enought to stop them from dealing a killing blow. And considering my brother (the DM) is rolling for the monsters, and his rolls are notoriously bad (I believe there's something wrong with his dice or he's very unlucky) the monsters usually roll low. But that's just my group.
What about darkvision, suggestion, chill touch, and daze and it's kindred spells? Those are very useful.
Just depends on how well you think an insane person will intepret information when he wants it to work out the way he wants it.Quote:
I'm presuming he knew how Meteor would work from his trips both through lifestream and the temple, and knew it would leave the world intact enough and blow'd up enough for his purposes.
And only a fantasy character would have hair like that.Quote:
Bishy, as in Bishounen. Usually defined by being incredibly long yet incredibly in control.
It's saved my butt 3 times already. And the fact that it's wizard locked so that the thieves can't stel it and use it against you is helpful too.Quote:
Not entirely sure the case would help that much, but ::shrug::
Man, you must have a great DM to get magic stuff like that. The only magic item I've got without me making it (scrolls) is a staff of spell storing.Quote:
Mage Armor and shield are good, yes, but they actually go to waste on you compared to most of your party unless you really need them. I've always thought displacement lasted too shortly to be useful, and anytime you get high enough where it lasts long enough, you can pick up magic item for it instead.
In the Underdark, they're everywhere. First you can't see them in the dark, then you can't see them in the light. Annoying I tell you. And I've run into an invisable drow that summons invisible fiendish wolves, and an invisible gibbering mouther. (weird)Quote:
When the hell was the last time I ran into an invisible enemy? I can't say it's a bad spell, but it's only useful when the foe vanishes.
Very true. Bards do suck. That's the one class that doesn't really do anything good or that makes sense, with the whole song thing. (sonic mage? what the heck?)Quote:
Darkvision is the village bike, and can be gotten permanently with a feat or class. The other spells are nifty, yes, but remember, my position is "Mages are not teh ubar" not "Mages are teh suck". Bards are generally teh suck.
Are you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!
Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)
Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.
i dont know about that boss u know i havent played the really old games i was saying about all the games on the playstation i found him defently the hardest to beat!
its likely that im speaking out of my love for him, but he is by far the best, there is no better,im in love with the way he talks, moves, fights, acts, just about everything about him, in my opinion
BFA is a lot easier than Sephy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoAre you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)
Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.
BFA - 3 hit and it dies.....
Sephy - According to Endless. calculation (if memory serve right), for the very least, you need 7 hit. But, usually, 15 hit.
I think Sephiroth is far from the best villain in the series. He's a cliche. White hair? Black cloak? Big sword? Yeah. Old. Not to mention that his fanbase is 99% retarded. Like sometimes I talk to sephyboi98877masamune.
I know this debate will go on forever, but here's my listing on the bad guys in the games I've played.
1 (Garland) - classic baddie role. Deserves to be the first and last boss battles in the game.
2 (Emperor) - Ehhh.... not so much-a
6 (Kefka) - Don't find him to be that crazy. Kind of funny actually. Just no real story behind him and him taking over the world is not that crazy. Just liked power and he was used in experiments as mentioned in one line from some random point at some random point in the game. I just didn't enjoy him as much as some people do.
7 (Sephiroth) - I personally like him. I think I would go crazy too if I found out about that smurfed up childhood. And I do find him to be the best. He's ridiculous with that outfit and sword. (Not a VII fanboy by the way. Just love the game)
8 (Ultimecia) - Awful, we find out nothing about her.
8 (Seifer) - Good ties with the main character. The redeeming factor to continue this game to the end.
9 (Kuja) - So good. Just good story really. Nothing more that I can say.
X (Seymour) - Ehhh. Kind of wierd sounding, but he always sounded like a child rapist to me. Just creepy, which I guess is good.
I agree too along with the Elephant lady.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaebusSeconded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuffie the Dragon Ninja
For the normal gamer BFA is harder. Most people who play FFX don't do 99,999 with each hit the first time they fight BFA. That's like saying Seph is too easy because of KOTR and Final-Attack Phenoix.Quote:
Originally Posted by DellBFA is a lot easier than Sephy.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoAre you saying the hardest final boss? If so I don't know what your talking about!Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Zeromus was incredibly tough (Big Bang 2000 damage all that kills 2 of my party members and leaves the rest low health I'm lucky I was playing easy type!)
Necron had much better attacks and was more difficult (Grand Cross and Neutron Ring where better then Super Nova)
Even BFA was harder then Seph.
BFA - 3 hit and it dies.....
Sephy - According to Endless. calculation (if memory serve right), for the very least, you need 7 hit. But, usually, 15 hit.
No, Necron is harder (unless your level 99 when facing Seph). Necron has Nuetron Ring which does +4000 damage to the party in a game where at level 50 not many characters have 4000 HP (At least mine didn't). Also Grand Cross which lowwers your HP to 1-10 and inflicts random status effects, even instant death, and doom which are unblockable.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
:laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Omni-Odin
I think so because in FFV X-Death is a no emotion kind of boss. Kefka was a kocky person and acted like he was all tough. Ultimecia was boring and basically didn't cause much to happen in the story line. Kuja was all like he was all so powerful and is better then everyone. Sin basically didn't do anything major or rational. Shepiroth on the other hand is basically a mixture.
In answer to the thread's question, no, Sephiroth is not the best bad guy in the series.
If you listen to how he talks, he's not really that evil. He's just out of control. His goal isn't necessarily to destroy the world, but his plan to reach his goal does involve destroying the world. He word choice suggests that he's actually doing something noble. Protecting the Promised Land from Shin Ra, and whenever he kills someone, he talks about how they go back to the planet, implying that he did it out of kindness.
Kefka (FF6) is a good bad guy. He loves the suffering of others. He has no greater goal for happiness. He loves to hear people screaming in pain and terror. He loves to watch people die, even people who have been like family to him. His plan isn't to destroy the world. His plan seems to center around slowly and painfully killing off everything living thing on the world, for his own pleasure.
See: My signature. Note the barrier stopping Sephiroth from Destroying the world. Now, Note the lack of barrier on the other side, and the fire and explosions, originally that peice of land was connected! AND THAT'S BEFORE THE STORY GETS BACK IN FULL SWING. =OOOO
Sephiroth was crazy and failed, and when killed, the world would basically be the same from when it started. :(
Kefka was crazy and won, because regardless if you kill him, The worlds still going to suck really bad because he blew up 78% and most the population is gone. FFVI is a wonderful loose loose situation. :)
That Nekron(sp) dude from FFIX only because I had forgot he even had a story, which blindsided me. xD
And I'll just go with Zeromus too 'cause he scares me. .-.
Oh and to Feion. Remember when Kefka killed Ghestal, and was yelling at the statues because they wouldn't kill him quick enough, then when he died, proceeded to kick his dead body off the floating continent while laughing?
Yeah Sephiroth would have just let him go to the lifestream. =[
No, because Sephiroth had a strong attatchment to parental figures, so he wouldn't have killed Gestahl because Gestahl had been like a father to Kefka. He would've given him a planet or something, or like, tried to reunite him with a bunch of hooded guys with tatoos, at which point, Gestahl would have just been all like, "Dude, knock it off.", and Sephiroth would've been all like, "Father, don't be angry at me or they might make a straight to DVD feature film involving some guy who turns into me and I'll have a brother who cries all the time despite being a fully grown man."
The way I see it, Sephiroth was insane, but still wanted to do what was right. He was doing what he genuinely believed in his messed up head. He was trying to fix things and make everything right.
Kefka was doing what he thought was wrong. He was killing just to kill. He suceeded in drowing the planet in a sea of explosions, killing most of the people and even sinking the item shop in Mobliz about 73.8% underwater, cutting off all access to the local Dried Meat market. Kefka's wraith unleashed like 10 legendary beasts that are all mega-powerful (unless you've mastered Shoat and Phantom). Kefka made it so that traveling by Chocobo is really impractical because instead of having two main continents, the world was now made up of like 47 continents.
Dancing Mad > One Winged Angel
But you already knew that.
Oh so it was an item shop! I was trying to figure out what that was.Quote:
Originally Posted by feioncastor
Yes I did already know that. And I don't think Kefka did it because he thought it was wrong, Blowing up the planet seemed to be entertaining at the time, because we all know, if Kekfa's not entertained he kills people for entertainment. See: THE DOMA MASSACRE.
Sephiroth killed who got in his way, Kefka likes to kill anything that lives, even grass. :razz:
Yes, and he also made the ocean purple.
Yeah, and he made the world map music all lame and with too much organ. It's a good thing that Setzer knew where we could get an airship with the power to change the world map theme to the funky bass driven hotness that it becomes.
In all honesty, I would've accepted the Narshe music as being the new world map music. When I first heard it, I thought, "Wow, this music suits the landscape perfectly. And that Peeper died before I hit him."
I think, and I'll bet Mr. Uematsu thinks too, that his work on FF6 was his best work. I've heard that the Jidoor theme was supposed to be in FF2 or FF3 on the NES, but they didn't need it or something, so it was shelved and put in Jidoor, the westernmost city on the map... NOT!
...
Yeah, so I don't think Sephiroth is the best bad guy in the series.
'The Magic House' was indeed an unused track from Final Fantasy II. It still sounded pretty hot on the Famicom too. I think they extended the melody for FFVI, though.
Yeah Jidoor is fail, it had to get old unused music. =OQuote:
Originally Posted by feioncastor
Oh and yeah Back on Topic.
ACTUALLY I was thinking now that Chaos is pretty lame, and I don't even remember who the bad guy was in FFVIII..
Ultimecia... but noone liked her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarice-ness
i personally loved Sephiroth! i thought he was the best villain with Kuja not far behind (mainly because Kuja was a more regal, sophisticated version of Sephy with a cooler plan {instead of a big rock he chose to take over the world with eidolons} but sephy wins it for craziness and originality) i rather liked the screw loose seymour because he freaks me out big time..............as for kefka he seemed a bit too much like a corny bond villian especially with the evil laughing......plus looking like a clown acadamy reject doesnt help either.....
seems as If Spheroth was good guy then badguy I think that makes him cool but thats just me and he was killed once before by Cloud. I think because he came back that makes him cool even if it was just to get owned again the momas boy, and I think a big sword like so would be impracticle.(the game still is fun)
Yeah, because no one noted that Evil Edea and Ultimecia are the same person. How ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoUltimecia... but noone liked her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarice-ness
its seems to be between Kafka and Sephiroth so here is the ultimate question who would win in a straight fight???
In all honesty Kefka. FFVIHe has the power of the Statues which absorb all magic. He then proceded to absorb the power of the statues which are the source of all magic in FFVI. He downs 6 espers(summons) with 6 attacks. Sephiroth does little to compare to that.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
anyone eles?
and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about tgoths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after allQuote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
like Ryushikaze said... Sephiroth wanted to make him suffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to destroy the planet now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
No. It's the work of an insane person. I mean really-becoming a god? That's not even scientific, it's religious. At least in science they have a plausible way to acheive something real...Quote:
and so trying to destroy a planet to become a god isnt the work of an insane genius?
*pish*, black clothes, white makeup. Easy. Anyone will look gothic. But Sephiroth actually enjoys what he's doing. Goths don't. It would be insulting him too much to call him a goth.Quote:
Well not being a goth myself I wouldnt know much about tgoths but IMO Sephiroth has a very gothic aperance
One can be injured, live a while, then eventually die from the wound. And in the time the planet was dying from the wound, Sephiroth could do whatever evil deed he had in mind. I'm not saying that planet destruction would be immiediate-just fatal.Quote:
No I distinctly remember Jenova/Sephiroth saying that it would Threaten the life of the planet no matter what would happen in the real world... this is Final Fantasy after all
Include the fact that you couldn't play a game without any characters....that tends to explain why the bad guys never do what would be quick and easy. They always have to go the hard way.Quote:
like Ryushikaze said... Sephiroth wanted to make him suffer.
To destroy the planet...so you're agreeing with me?Quote:
erm did I miss the point where he used SuperNova on your team... or where he summoned a massive meteor to destroy the planet now lets think about that a second one fireball = 14 centaurs, one meteor = one planet aka a shed load of people, its the fact that he doesnt need to use his awesom magical powers to own, he is very versatile.
As for the rest of the quote, thank you for proving my point.
For the last line...
Are you quite sure? If you remember in the flashback, all he did was cast lightning when ever there was a random encounter. The only time you actually saw him use his sword was 1)against the dragon, and 2)on Tifa.
It seems to me he relied on magic a lot. I could kill a dragon with one short spell, far superior to using a sword, however D&D does not mesh well with the Final Fantasy battle system. The damage counts are way off.
Yes really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...:rolleyes2Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
not that im saying your wrong or anything but there have been quite a number of goths that have enjoyed being evil like so:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki
but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
I think a lot of people have got Sephiroth mixed up with somebody else he turned to the dark side when he found out the truth! he isn’t a mummys boy! Haha he wants to make it up to her because she should have been the ruler of the planet! that’s natural you can understand his point of view he’s mad and a genius it depends from what way you look at it!
I clearly remember him saying that he would cease to be of this world and would become a god. Not the ultimate badass-a god.Quote:
es really becoming a god... not in the sence of religon but in the omnipotnt side and like I said before while it may seem far fetched to you or me, I distinctly remember someone tell me this was a fantasy game...
I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.Quote:
again while not all goths are as such of the above there are some that DO enjoy doing what they do.
Yeah. So? What's your point?Quote:
but on the flip side the planet could also heal itself, but lets no go down that path for the moment, say the planet did die, Sephiroth would be so powerful then that he could move from planet to planet without the need for air or anything.
Is 'anal retentive' spelt with a hyphen? :lol:Quote:
sorry I didnt realise you was so padantic... iv changed it to say what I really meant...
sorry bad joke.
okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.
But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.Quote:
so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.
btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.
You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
And where are you getting this genius thing from? His plan is barely thought through. If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on.
Kefka.
He 'won.'
To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.Quote:
I see what you're getting at but what I meant is that Sephiroth is happy doing what he does. As a general rule, Goths aren't happy. Ever.
Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.Quote:
Yeah. So? What's your point?
Agreed, though I hesitate to attribute any in battle spell to reality. Though relating this back, always be hesitant to attribute magic> over things as a blanket, because its terribly inconsistent across worlds.Quote:
okay, that clears up that one point. But the rest of it still proves my point. His awesome magical powers is what makes him so formidible. (SuperNova, Meteor). And it's the reason why the planet is about to be destroyed.
Though he was supposedly death in a trenchcoat on the battlefield without the materia as well.
Quote:
so you missed the part in FFVII:AC where he and Cloud had a massive battle with Swords. and about the D&D... I never played the game and besides, are we not disscussing Sephiroth, D&D has nothing to do with him.
One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.Quote:
But you never saw the damage Sephiroth inflicted in the movie, in the absence of damage #'s. The whole fight was each one blocking the others' attack, and Sephiroth got in a hit only once. With no #'s.
As for D&D; Well, you quoted what I said and that was said in D&D terms. If D&D damage counts were raised up to those in FF, than one fireball could easily kill a wing of dragons. The two are far unbalanced, and so direct comparison is not fair.
I agree. Depending on your DM, though, your mileage may vary.Quote:
btw, you really should play D&D. You'll like it.
There's a huge difference there. A god has complete power over life and death, and can understand the concept of infinity, as well as being invulnerable and immortal. Sephiroth may be able to get the power, but he's still got stats, and if it's got stats, it can be killed, which wouldn't make him a god.Quote:
To be frank, the concept of a god is so badly defined as to be worthless. Kefka also defined himself as a god, and he was 'merely' incredibly powerful. If I recall the entirety of Sephy's plan, he wanted to become so powerful as to become nigh invulnerable, immortal, etc, in the classic, grecian understanding of what a god was.
Truth.Quote:
As a general rule, they're also not particularly physically active, but I've known some exceptions. However, Sephiroth isn't a goth (as ill defined as the concept is), but a sadistic egomaniac of the grandest design.
Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!Quote:
Well, the entire point was that his plan, were it successful, didn't need a living planet to stay around.
True. I did exaggerate a little too much...Quote:
One Meteor Swarm perhaps, but definitely not one fireball.
Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.
No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.Quote:
Exactly. The argument was if Meteor would destroy the world or not. Then the sudden change of topic. Hmmmmm.....is someone DODGING!!!!!!!
Eh, no prob.Quote:
True. I did exaggerate a little too much...
where is this coming from Sephiroth is a Goth haha don’t make me laugh they don’t hurt anyone! haha you could say Vincent is a Goth too with his dark clothes and cold personality but he’s not!
Heh, it just goes to prove that gods are as unconstant as the humans that believe in them. I agree, 'god' is just too broad a subject to debated over in this form.Quote:
Even the grecian gods could be killed. As I said, the concept of what entails a god has wildly fluctuated over the years. None of what you said universally applies to gods (even immortality doesn't always come up).
Of course, in D&D, even gods have stats. And I do agree, if it has stats, it can be killed (with the exception of Cthulu, and they literally cheated for that result), but being killable doesn't make one not a god.
And though being invulnerable doesn't make one a god, I'm sure it would help. Though Sephiroth didn't actually seek to make himself literally invulnerable; rather he just sought to gain so much power it would be nigh impossible to kill him.
Irrelevant? If it happened to Earth it would sure seem pretty darn relevant I think.Quote:
No, more stating that the planet living and dying is slightly irrelevant. I still maintain that Meteor was not based around raw Kinetic Impact, and even if it were, it wouldn't obliterate the planet. At worst, it would cause a nuclear winter effect and leave another massive crater where Sephypoo could situate himself and soak up all the energy willy nilly.
And just how do you think the dinosuars were wiped out? A massive asteroid impact that covered the planet in a cloud of dust and ash for many years. Water condesned around all the particals and fell in the form of percipitation. However, this cloud effectively blocked out virtually all sunlight, so the percipitation was snow. Plants died, they would be the first to go, and after that, everything else.
The lakes, seas, oceans are all dead, with the exception of life that survives at the lowest point of the ocean. Even then, there's a small chance that those animals down there would survive, since there would be an enourmus disruption of the Earth's tetonic plates, causing heat to rise or vanish altogether. There's no fish in the upper waters whatsoever. The planet would be as lively and warm as Sedna. And it will last for thousands, or millions of years.
Nuclear winter is the most deadly thing that could possibly happen. That's no small matter to be tossed out as something 'causing another crater'. It wouldn't be 'just' another crater-it'd be the whole world that would become the crater. If Meteor did hit and cause a nuclear winter, that's the death knoll for the whole planet. And in this case the planet wouldn't ever be able to heal itself, ever-it would die from the wound and any remaing life on the planet would soon follow.
Thats because god is a far overused word. And personally I can't think of a Greek God that died. They usually just have some eternal punishment (i.e. Prometheus having his kidney or whatever it was ripped out everyday)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryushikaze
Sephiroth ain't the best. Just like everything else in 7, he is WAY overrated. I mean, that's not to say he's a bad villain, or that VII is a bad game, they're awesome, but so are pretty much all the other games Square has ever made. I prefer not to pick favorites and get into these petty and divisive agruments over which game is the best, which villain is the best, which music is the best. When someone asks me what the best role playing game is, I tell them Final Fantasy. If they ask which one, I say all of them. Everyone, I'm sure, has their own preferences and therefore their own favorites. However, I do not believe that any Final Fantasy game is truly "better" than the others. This consistency is one of the reasons I think Final Fantasy is the best role-playing game series of all time. Damn, that was long-winded.:tongue:
He could controll Jenova, was absorbing part of the Lifestream in the Crater, AND in AC, he became a God.Quote:
You overestimate Sephiroth's power. The only thing that really showed that Sephiroth had pretty good power was the fact he could surpress Holy.
He had Jenova Synthesis to protect him. And he have a "barrier" that protected him(when the heros reach the core of the world, Sephiroth's "barrier" made them float in the air, and they couldn't move their bodies, and when they tried to aproach him, they are threw back by a green energy).Quote:
If he was a genius he would've counted on his barriar being broken through. He had no secondary plan, he counted on his barriar and when it fell he had no backup plan. Nothing to fall back on
First off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
You said that holding Holly was an example of Sephiroth's power. But you have to remember that Sephiroth's power is his will. He was holding Holly with the power of his will, and he was controlling Jenova with the power of his will too. Controlling Jenova is an example of Sephiroth's power.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoFirst off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
He is never called a god in AC, but if i remember well, he is called a god in the Reunion Files.
In FFVII, Sephiroth wanted to have controll over all the Lifestream, becoming a god. In AC he has his own version of Lifestream that he could completelly controll. And his tainted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure Lifestream, because he could corrupt the pure one, transforming it in his own version of Lifestream.
The Reunion Files say too, that in AC, Sephiroth is in his most powerfull form ever, and that he is the most powerfull character of the FFVII series.
In AC, Sephiroth is a god.
He may be the most powerful in the FF7 series, but not in the entire series. I believe Kefka and Kuja are better. Kefka has eight dragons, a beam of light that can kill you from any point in the world, and when he's in the area of the Goddess statues, he can't be hurt. When Kuja achieved Trance, he destroyed an entire world, and he controls the Mist, and can conjure up strong Mist monsters.
Beat that, mama's boy!
He is far from a god. A god would be Kefka, or Kuja, who clearly have more power then Sephiroth.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalYou said that holding Holly was an example of Sephiroth's power. But you have to remember that Sephiroth's power is his will. He was holding Holly with the power of his will, and he was controlling Jenova with the power of his will too. Controlling Jenova is an example of Sephiroth's power.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoFirst off when in AC is he ever called a god? Secondly Controling Jenova wasn't much power, that just gave him someone to do his bidding when he was stuck in the northern crater.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crystal
He is never called a god in AC, but if i remember well, he is called a god in the Reunion Files.
In FFVII, Sephiroth wanted to have controll over all the Lifestream, becoming a god. In AC he has his own version of Lifestream that he could completelly controll. And his tainted Lifestream was more powerfull than the pure Lifestream, because he could corrupt the pure one, transforming it in his own version of Lifestream.
The Reunion Files say too, that in AC, Sephiroth is in his most powerfull form ever, and that he is the most powerfull character of the FFVII series.
In AC, Sephiroth is a god.
How you know that they are more powerfull than Sephiroth? Sephiroth can destroy an entire world if he want(he was using the tainted Lifestream to do it, in the end of AC), and is important to note that Sephiroth could have killed Cloud any time. He wasn't using half of his true power in that fight. The problem is that, in AC, we never saw the true power of Sephiroth in a fight, because he was only playing with Cloud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
And Sephiroth said(in FFVII) that when he could controll the Lifestream, he would be a god. And this is exactly what he was doing in AC. And when SE say that he is the most powerfull being in FFVII universe, that means that he is more powerfull than beings like Omega Weiss and Omega Weapon itself.
The Lifestream is the source of life and magic in FFVII. Sephiroth could corrupt it, and controll it. He could controll the source of life and magic in the planet. He is a god.
Just to you guys understand, i'm not saying that AC Sephiroth is more powerfull than Kuja and Kefka, i'm only saying that we never saw Sephiroth fight with all his power in AC, meaning that we don't know if he is more powerfull than Kuja or Kefka.
his name wins.
/
Personally, I don't think he was that powerful if he didn't use that power. After all, with great power comes the ability to abuse that power, and Sephiroth did not. Which means he is a weaker villain than Kuja and Kefka.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalHow you know that they are more powerfull than Sephiroth? Sephiroth can destroy an entire world if he want(he was using the tainted Lifestream to do it, in the end of AC), and is important to note that Sephiroth could have killed Cloud any time. He wasn't using half of his true power in that fight. The problem is that, in AC, we never saw the true power of Sephiroth in a fight, because he was only playing with Cloud.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
And Sephiroth said(in FFVII) that when he could controll the Lifestream, he would be a god. And this is exactly what he was doing in AC. And when SE say that he is the most powerfull being in FFVII universe, that means that he is more powerfull than beings like Omega Weiss and Omega Weapon itself.
The Lifestream is the source of life and magic in FFVII. Sephiroth could corrupt it, and controll it. He could controll the source of life and magic in the planet. He is a god.
Just to you guys understand, i'm not saying that AC Sephiroth is more powerfull than Kuja and Kefka, i'm only saying that we never saw Sephiroth fight with all his power in AC, meaning that we don't know if he is more powerfull than Kuja or Kefka.
He did not use his full power, because he knew that he could kill Cloud with his first attack. But he didn't want to do this. He wanted to humiliate Cloud, to make him suffer. This is why he decided to have a "simple" sword fight with Cloud.Quote:
Originally Posted by YTDN
You already played DoC? If you played, think about Omega Weiss. Think about Omega Weapon. Sephiroth is more powerfull than them.
Sephiroth was nothing more than a victim of his own self-conciousness, and tremendous ego. He practically thrived on his own visions of grandeur, and that is what finally destroyed him in the end when Cloud fought him in the Lifestream. Cloud didn't kill or vanquish him, his own ego did.
Kuja was nothing!
WHAT!!! ARE YOU EVEN THINKING?!? He blew up a freakin' world! Boom, gone! How can you call that nothing? What did Sephiroth do... summon a meteor and get it stopped?Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Watch this and there will be no way you can call him nothing.
He have more development than Sephiroth, have a better personality than Sephiroth, have a better reason than Sephiroth, have better quotes than Sephiroth, is more intelligent than Sephiroth, and did more damage to his world than Sephiroth.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Yeah, he is nothing. :rolleyes2
Burned Nibelheim, killed everyone in Shinra, killed the Midgar Zolom with great style, killed Aerith, hold Holly, "manipulated" Cloud and his friends to the Reunion, summoned Meteor, was the responsible for the release of the Weapons(even if this wasn't his original plan), made Cloud belive that he(Cloud) "didn't exist", created a very powerfull body(Safer Sephiroth) to absorb the Lifestream, was the responsible for the destruction of Midgar(his Meteor destroyed it), corrupted the world with Geostigma, and created his own Lifestream becoming a god.Quote:
What did Sephiroth do... summon a meteor and get it stopped?
Hell, both of them are great! I love both of them.
i think sepiroth is an okay villian, but like dragon mage said a man who sicks his mommy on you and has waist length hair can NOT be taken serouisly.
I can't believe people are voting for KUJA! He has no class whatsoever. He was basically just some random idiot and then some big bad guy, and he looked like a panzy the whole way through. We were able to watch Kefka rise to the top, instead of just being some powerful gunt mouth. Sephiroth started out good, which is a huge plus in my books. Sephiroth had so much story, so much background. Main bad guys need story, or they need to at least be underestimated.
Kefka was underestimated, and we actually got to know Sephiroth. Kuja? Who the heck is Kuja? He's some idiot that you all of the sudden find standing on a giant plant with you, taunting you. Maybe I was to concerned with cards
MOST IMPORTANTLY: For the people who are saying Sephiroth was a mommas boy so Kuja wins: I can feel comfortable saying papa didn't buy Kuja his evening dress
(SPOILER)Kuja was a genome created by Garland to destroy the souls on Gaia, so then Terra's souls could fill the void. Then Garland created Zidane, and Kuja got jealous, thinking he was gonna get replaced, so he threw Zidane down to Gaia. He then proceeded to wreak havoc on gaia, he destroyed Alexandria, Burmecia, Cleyra, Lindblum, and Madain Sari directly or indirectly. Then he went to get revenge on his creator for 'replacing' him, which was his goal all along, he was just looking for a strong power to destroy Garland. He found Trance, absorbed all the angry souls on the Invincible, then completely kicked Zidane's butt, and Tranced. He then killed Garland, but before he died, he told Kuja that he had a time limit on his life, and was gonna die soon, 'without ever leaving his mark on the world'. Kuja then snapped, because he believed himself to be better than everyone else, so he decided that if he, the best person in thw world, was gonna die, the rest of the world would die too. Cue large scale destruction. You calling Kuja 'just some random guy?'Quote:
Originally Posted by bleda
And if you just make fun of him for his clothes, well, he looks good in them. And you should wear what loks good on you.
sephiroth is a good villain the best in my opinion, but their all good( I've only played ff 7-9) each has its flaws kuja looks like a fag I mean look at him. ultimecia is a chick who only uses magic and no weapons. sephiroth is a big mama's boy in so many ways I cant repeat them all this century. they should make a game containg all three now that would be a chalenging game.
KUJA is a girl how can he be the best bad guy? he’s a cross dresser
You are being a 4 year old. "Oh my god he likes a girl he must be gay! AHHHHHHHH!"Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
I could go on about how Sephiorth looks emo, but I don't. Kuja had far better rants, was stronger, and did more villianous deeds.
I love it when people completely ignore everything that's been said, come up with something that's not only irrelevant but also factually inaccurate and generally waste the time of everyone who bothered to read their post.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
He's not a cross dresser. He just happens to like dressing the way he does, since it suits him. And do you think Sephiroth is any better? He loks like any other black leather evil villain.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
YTDN, you are answering to him?! Is obvious that the guy didn't even play the game. Just ignore him.Quote:
Originally Posted by YTDN(SPOILER)Kuja was a genome created by Garland to destroy the souls on Gaia, so then Terra's souls could fill the void. Then Garland created Zidane, and Kuja got jealous, thinking he was gonna get replaced, so he threw Zidane down to Gaia. He then proceeded to wreak havoc on gaia, he destroyed Alexandria, Burmecia, Cleyra, Lindblum, and Madain Sari directly or indirectly. Then he went to get revenge on his creator for 'replacing' him, which was his goal all along, he was just looking for a strong power to destroy Garland. He found Trance, absorbed all the angry souls on the Invincible, then completely kicked Zidane's butt, and Tranced. He then killed Garland, but before he died, he told Kuja that he had a time limit on his life, and was gonna die soon, 'without ever leaving his mark on the world'. Kuja then snapped, because he believed himself to be better than everyone else, so he decided that if he, the best person in thw world, was gonna die, the rest of the world would die too. Cue large scale destruction. You calling Kuja 'just some random guy?'Quote:
Originally Posted by bleda
And if you just make fun of him for his clothes, well, he looks good in them. And you should wear what loks good on you.
If you are talking about AC Sephiroth, this is debatable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenbogo
Actually I beat the game, but I must admit I should have paid more attention if I wanted to bash Kuja. The thing about it for me I guess, is I had no prior relationship to the fellow (that is, I met him, and he was completely evil). As you've shown my dumbass, there is more to the guy, but (and I may be completely wrong on this) it all kinda stacks near the end of the game? I don't like when a super villain comes into the game evil. That being said, I didn't pay enough attention to the story to argue, I just pimped my party members.
Sephiroth, Kuja, and Kefka can all blow up the world. They all have femenine traits. The differences between them is their story. I enjoyed Kefka, but maybe that's because he was so crazy. I have to admit, story wize, he wasn't anything special. Sephiroth had an amazing story, amazing background through the whole game. Unless i'm completely missing something, Kuja kind of came in with his story late.
Thanks for the info on Kuja, I appreciate it.
Thanks. But you find out that he was there rather earlier. Garnet says at one point that he turned up at the castle on her 16th birthday, working for Queen Brahne. He also creates the black mages that go destroying places. He's shown in Burmecia in disc one, with Brahne and Beatrix, he's shown in the Treno auction talking about trying to capture Garnet, and when Garnet is captured, he puts her to sleep with his powers. So he actually comes in rather early. And he comes in evil straight away because he's doing his job to cause destruction of Gaia.Quote:
Originally Posted by bleda
I said he was a girl because I knew it would get a rise out of you! he’s a good bad guy too.
Yea and he lost, what an asshole.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalHe did not use his full power, because he knew that he could kill Cloud with his first attack. But he didn't want to do this. He wanted to humiliate Cloud, to make him suffer. This is why he decided to have a "simple" sword fight with Cloud.Quote:
Originally Posted by YTDN
Rufus was the best bad guy ever. All the rest thaught they were too cool for school.
i dont think Rufus can be on the list as one of the best bad guys he gives orders to others he never dose anything himself.
Exactly, he has lots of power and he uses it to his advantage.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
sephiroth rules hes got all the pluses, looking cool, starting of good but going bad when he sees he is just like the monsters in the reactor he turns evil. when does kuja turn evil, who the hell is he anyway, Ithink he looks as gay as is humanly or alienly possible. sephiroth has plans to rule the earth after he anhialates all living people and absorbs the lifestream to recreate everything how he wants it, what does kuja do destroy the world and then what? someone tell me because it looks like squaresoft just ran out of Ideas for a villain so they made the first gay one.
i'm glad i'm not the only one.Quote:
Originally Posted by duck king
In my opinion, Sephiroth is the best villian of the series. He looks awesome, is amazingly powerful, and has a great backround story. I only played FFVI a little bit, so I can't comment on Kefka. As for Kuja, I'm not gonna make childish comments about the way he dresses, but I don't think he compares with Sephi in power, story, difficulty to beat (not that Sephi's very hard), and especially not in looks.
thanks bleda, I may have spoken wrong when i said first gay villain I have just recently seen a picture of kefka and he to looks gay.
All right, I know I'm a noob, but I need to get this point across. I bought all the FF games after playing FFX way back when it came out. I then went ahead and played them in order. (of course back then, 3 wasn't available...)
And after all was said and done, the only villains who stuck out to me were Sephiroth and Kuja. That's right, the all mighty Kefka was hardly a speck in my mind. The reason for that is because Kefka played the cackling crazy bad guy well. But I never liked the crazy old clown routine no matter how powerful he got. No matter how many people he killed or how much damage he caused, he's still a crazy man in make-up.
Kuja on the other hand, now he was evil, but as others said... well... here:
Guy 1: OH NOES! IT'S KUJA!
Guy 2: Who dat beez? We almost at the end of game, and I never seen him!
Guy 1: Well, he done bad things. Like, BOOM and BAM and CRUNCH! Blow up lots of people and planets.
Guy 2: WOW! I should be scared of him, despite his utter lack of back story.
Guy 1: OH! He was built in lab, and so on... he's just pissed.
Guy 2: I guess that's a better twist than the orphanage in FF8.
Guy 1: Ha ha ha! Good one!
*Large explosion*
Guy 2: What was that noise!?
Guy 1: Kuja just blew up a whole world!
Guy 2: That makes him the best Final Fantasy villain ever right?
Guy 1: Yes, but only because we hate Sephiroth.
Guy 2: That makes sense.
But, to be fair, Kuja had some kick butt dialogue, and that gives him major points in my book.
But finally there is Sephiroth. This is the man I feared before I ever even saw him. Just a trail of blood and a sword in a mans back, that was Sephiroth. Soon, it all started leaking out. The man was an unstoppable soldier, he went mad after he found out he was an experiment, he killed the main characters loved ones. Then he goes and creates one of the most famous twists in video game history by killing Aerith. He went on to nearly destroy the world and there ya go.
So what makes a good villain? The deeds he does or me being able to hate him. See, I could care less about Kefka, and Kuja I thought was cool. But Sephiroth, I hated and feared Sephiroth, and it wasn't about beating the game anymore, it was about killing him.
If I don't hate you, then you fail as a true villain, no matter how big your body count is.
good, good, very good, I sort of agree. Although I personaly like sephiroth because he is so evil and hate able. your right though kuja is not as good as sephiroth at being evil ( I think kuja might be a huge fag) hes still a good villain.
That's it. For all the people out there who say Sephitroth was a moma's boy, I think you need to get your story straight. "Mother" is just a term he used for Jenova. His actual mother and father(SPOILER)was Lucrecia and Hojo. Go ahead and tell me you know this. Then I'll tell you that you should know Sephiroth was just relying on Jenova for her power. Oh, and by the way:Quote:
Originally Posted by Reks
Mama's Boy: a boy excessively attached to his MOTHER; lacking normal masculine interests
Yes, but Sephiroth believed Jenova to be his mother, therefore he still has a close attachment to his mother-figure. It's like if you had an adoptive mother, you could still be a mama's boy, because the 'mother' you have a close attachment to is a mother to you.
But finally there is Sephiroth. This is the man I feared before I ever even saw him. Just a trail of blood and a sword in a mans back, that was Sephiroth. Soon, it all started leaking out. The man was an unstoppable soldier, he went mad after he found out he was an experiment, he killed the main characters loved ones. Then he goes and creates one of the most famous twists in video game history by killing Aerith. He went on to nearly destroy the world and there ya go.
So what makes a good villain? The deeds he does or me being able to hate him. See, I could care less about Kefka, and Kuja I thought was cool. But Sephiroth, I hated and feared Sephiroth, and it wasn't about beating the game anymore, it was about killing him.
If I don't hate you, then you fail as a true villain, no matter how big your body count is.
i agree with that larst post!
I don't think Sephiroths intentions were evil, more so a skewed good. *just said this in a thread in General FF*Quote:
Originally Posted by duck king
He wanted to PROTECT the holy land, Anyone with evil intentions only want to protect themselves and honestly he was never selfish in his mission other than the fact he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet destroying everything and himself to PROTECT something he felt was being threatened.
In his mind, killing everything was a way to save what he believed in, therefore it was rational. It's as if *repeating self..* cops put criminals in jail because they killed someone, because good wins. But then the idea of good gets skewed to the point of, if someone as much as litters on the street they get shot, beaten down, then thrown in jail to the point of anything veiwed as bad is a threat. I consider Sephiroth as more of a skewed protector of what he thought was right than an evil villain killing people for his own entertainment instead of reasons.
yea he thought what he was doing was right and in a twisted kind of way you can see his point of view!
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
You're agreeing with your own post?
Urg...besides, Kefka's obviously the best, even though he might look like a clown. Kefka ruthlessly poisons Doma River, killing innocent people and even his own soldiers that were imprisoned in there, drinking the water. He also waited patiently for Gestahl to take over the Floating Continent just so he could betray him and take all the magic in the world of FFVI (besides the Espers). He terrorized people on top of his tower with "Light of Judgement." In the end, he also just got bored and decided to destroy all humans.
Kefka and Kuja are much alike in many ways, villany and power and are almost equals.
Most people just like Sephiroth because he can win a pretty boy contest.
No way he has a chance of winning against Kuja... Kuja was gorgeous.
Good for you. If you disagree with your own post, you're obviously crazy.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
Kefka and Kuja are both good villains, but for different reasons. Kefka was vicious and ugly, Kuja was egotistic and self-obsessed. Kuja would win that pretty-boy contest, he was far more effeminate.Quote:
Originally Posted by PuPu
i have beaten ff 1-10 and by far sephiroth is the best bad guy i have seen hands down
I will never see why people like Kefka, I really cant stand him, I mean for instance when your fighting him and he runs away I was shouting at the screen "WHY THE HELL ARE YOU STANDING THERE YOU IDIOTS!" and he was iritateing to no end, how anyone could actully like him is beyond me. IMHO badguys should look cool and be fearsom not just a random run of the mill guy who goes insane and moves a couple of statues and destoys the world as the know it, lets face it, anyone could have done what Kefka did: he was just some guy who move some statues Kuja and Sephiroth on the other hand used there own abilitys to do what they did what insanely powerful skills did Kefka have? was Kefka feared by people?
ha ha it wasn’t my post its somebody else who had a say on this before I couldn’t find his name so I left it blank!
Light of Judgement could obliterate towns anywhere in the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Reno~
Absolutely! He had a reign of fear for a year! Destroying anyone who opposed him with his Light of Judgement.Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Reno~
that does sound alittle more evil than sephiroth, but still kefka looks gay.
*Sigh* That was listed for Kefka. And if your saying that Kefka looks gay then your saying clowns=Gay which isn't true. Besides appearence is just about the only thing Seph does win. Beuty is only skin deep... Evil pierces skin ;)
I believe Rufus is more cynical. He wanted to rule with fear. Sephy want to rule with honor.
What exactly do you even mean by this? People hate Shuyin because he didn't exactly do much and only wanted destroy Spira because his girlfriend died. People hate Kefka as well because he always taunted you and outsmarts you all the time. Besides, if someone you knew in real life does stuff to make you hate him all the time, would you say he's a great villain? Or that he was evil? Your post is totally opinionated and judging by your posts, you are like many blind Sephy fans I see all the time.Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisfffan
And somehow, I doubt you even played FFVI and didn't know who Kefka was until his name got mentioned.
ha ha that wasn’t my post to begin with! look their are lots of good bad guys out there from the final fantasy series but I think Sephy comes out on top he’s the coolest and in the end the most evilest and understandable character in the series for me.
Sephiroth want to rule with honor?! Sephiroth want to destroy the planet!Quote:
Originally Posted by VitalChance
And why many people say that he is not powerfull like the other villains? In the end of AC he is a god!
IMO evil is suposed to be seductive: thats how people become evil as it is somthing desireable: if you wanted to be an evil bloke would you want to be A. a little man that has snide comments about him even by people under his own command throughout the game or a man who arguably has the biggest group of followers in the history of Final Fantasy: obviously 9 out of 10 people will choose the latter oh and BTW the light of judgement was a magical ability given to him from the statues which means yes any old joe could have done what he did.
Hey Pupu, just because people like Sephiroth, doesn't mean they are all just 'blind Sephy fan's'. Many people have very good reasons for liking Kefka, Kuja etc, and I respect that, and think they're both great villians, but I still like Sephiroth the most. You don't have to accuse people of being ignorant just because their opinion doesn't match yours.
PuPu is trying to say that most of the Seph post have been opinionated and haven't had reasons, which he is say is ignorant. Which I agree with. I think you should read theQuote:
Originally Posted by Enjolras282
He isn't just saying "You like Seph your dumb!" He's saying "Support your answer or I'm going to think your a Blind Sephy fan".Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupu
*skips in laughing*Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Reno~
You obviously never got past the Doma part. xDD Kefka played 'captain weakness' until he killed the emperor then pushes him off a flying island, gained god like status, destroyed 85% of the planet, and gained himself a cult.
Kefka basically has all the skills any one of the main characters in FFVI can get, if not more. People seem to forget that Celes and Kefka were raised the same with magic infused in them when they were children. Kefka had the light of Judgement, he would use it at any time for any lack of reason. Kefka was feared by the entire planet, It could possibly be because he had a cult and a tower that could basically see everything happening so no one was safe, or maybe it's because HE DID DESTROY 85% OF THE WORLD, GET A CULT, AND YOU COULD NEVER GET AWAY FROM HIM. Kefka was smart, He worked from the inside up, were as Sephiroth killed people on the inside then went on his own, Kefka used the Empire to his own benefit until he was able to gain ultimate power. The statues didn't give him power by the way, He moved them just to get the world off balance, then took some of their power, If you would have thrown Celes in the middle of those statues she would have been able to take their power as well.
And before anyone says "Oh well Sephiroth has a cult" Actually no, Sephiroth has a cult of experiments like him that really couldn't do much other than mumble incoherent words. Kefka on the other hand got a cult with people who figured it would be better to join him then die, since they've seen what he did to prolly everyone the people in the cult prolly knew.
:)
I would have to agree with you there. Sephiroth wasn't honorable. He stabbed people in the back for crying out loud! Honorable? I think not.Quote:
Sephiroth want to rule with honor?! Sephiroth want to destroy the planet!
And why many people say that he is not powerfull like the other villains? In the end of AC he is a god!
However, if you really look at it, nearly all the villans could be considered 'gods' from the criteria set up here. So in that case, Sephiroth isn't a pioneer.
Sephiroth didn't want to rule, He wanted to protect the promised land. As I said earlier, his veiws on good and evil were skewed, in his mind, him destroying the planet saves the Promised land because it's something he felt worth saving. His intentions were noble on another level of nobility. And yeah, The idea of 'becoming a god' has become something else at this point of the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
But back stabbing or not, Sephiroth did what he was doing to protect something, it's not like he was going around killing because he thought it was fun to kill, he was killing the things he veiwed as a threat to the promised land which happened to be everything in existance. He had no intentions as ruling as a god, and even if he did, he was smart which should have made him realize if you destroy existance (not to mention himself) there's nothing to rule.
You make a very good point Goldenboco, I won't deny that there are a lot of opinionated Sephy posts. The piece Pupu quoted was from chrisfffan, whose post wasn't entirely clear. However, chrisfffan had copied that from an earlier post by Sn4tch, who did have a reasoned post. I originally thought Pupu had quoted Sn4tch, and not chrisfffan. I now understand his point of view.
I honestly think every post that says "Sephiroth looks the coolest" or anything to the extent of 'looking cool' should be erased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enjolras282
Good God man can you hear yourself? He didn't want to protect the Promised Land he wanted to get it. And when he couldn't get it, he decided that no one could have it. He is the most unoble jackass in the game. Killing flower girls by sabbing them in the back, trying to destroy the world because he couldn't get what he wanted, burning down towns.....must I go on? THAT is not noble. It's like killing the person you're guarding kind make the whole point moot, no? According to you, he's destroying what he wants to save, becuase it's in danger. IT'S IN DANGER BECUASE HE'S GOING TO DESTROY IT!!!!!! Mull over that a little and I'll get back to you.Quote:
Sephiroth didn't want to rule, He wanted to protect the promised land. As I said earlier, his veiws on good and evil were skewed, in his mind, him destroying the planet saves the Promised land because it's something he felt worth saving. His intentions were noble on another level of nobility. And yeah, The idea of 'becoming a god' has become something else at this point of the thread.
But back stabbing or not, Sephiroth did what he was doing to protect something, it's not like he was going around killing because he thought it was fun to kill, he was killing the things he veiwed as a threat to the promised land which happened to be everything in existance. He had no intentions as ruling as a god, and even if he did, he was smart which should have made him realize if you destroy existance (not to mention himself) there's nothing to rule.
And by 'god' I mean, becoming so powerful it's nigh impossible to kill him.
But I do agree with you here. If one is going to argue, argue on reasonable facts, not personal opinion.Quote:
I honestly think every post that says "Sephiroth looks the coolest" or anything to the extent of 'looking cool' should be erased.
I don't think you can write of looking cool that trivially. When you define 'best' villain what are you describing? Are you looking for most successful, most well developed? Then appearance is somewhat trivial.
However, I take 'best' to mean the villain that most enhanced your game playing experience. And to deny that appearance is a part of this is just plain ludicrous.
(Personally I think Kuja and Kefka were far better villain’s development wise; however neither of them I felt increased my enjoyment of the game as much as Sephiroth did.)
Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.
The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.
And since all the Ancients are dead, that would mean everyone on the planet is unpure and must be destroyed. The frapping planet is the promised land, or it's lifestream at any rate. He's a prime example of misanthropy, so anything he says should include that fact. SEPHIROTH WAS NEVER WHOLLY HUMAN!!!!!! He was a half-alien, thus, he wan't human! There is no 'anceints' and 'non-anceints'-technically they're all the same. The Cetra however were telepathically gifted and were able to communicate with the planet because of this. If you destroy the planet then you destroy it's lifestream=destroying the promised land. You can't have one with out the other. Whoope sephiroth, real good move on your part!!!-_-. Give me a break.Quote:
Yes, I do hear myself, and I am a MIGHTY GOD. Not just good. He didn't want it all for himself, if you remember his insane rantings about how the not pure people (basically everyone other than the ancients which is.. basically everyone 'cept Aeris) would destroy the promised land because of their impurities, He wanted all of them to die because they didn't deserve to go to the promised land. Kill all the impurities, in his head, You'd only have him by default. The reason he killed Aeris is because she posed as a threat to him, he wanted to smash a meteor into the planet because he knew the planet would gush with the lifestream and if he could get all that power he -could- become a god, and with his thinkings, Gods can get into the promised land because they're as holy and pure as the ancients once were.
He wanted to destroy the planet, not the promised land, In his head these are two different things. Go back to the game, disc one perferably and read his ramblings in depth about how "Clouds ancestors ran and hid in shelters while the ancients fought" and what not, He hates the 'impurities' living because they are not good enough to make it into the Promised Land, only the ancients. And no one can say "Well he killed Aeris and she was an ancient" yeah she was, but Sephiroth -was- human, so she posed as a threat, he killed her as simple as that.
The idea of 'promised Land' can be interperted by the gamer, it's not like you could look on the world map for 'promised land' and find it, it's obviously not the lifestream because as we saw with cloud, that doesn't really help to much. My idea of the 'Promised Land' is much like Heaven should be, the purest get in. Ironically in FF7 the lifestream was as pure as you get, and if Sephiroth could use that he could get in the promised land. I don't believe the planet itself was the promised land by anymeans.
And following your idea of heaven, that should mean all children and unborn babies should get in. They don't. They go in Limbo. Your vision is flawed.
I stopped reading once I read the thing that almost 99% of people know, and apparently you didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
o o;
Sephiroth is (SPOILER)Hojo and Luceria(sp)'sKid.
You just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing! :razz:
He's a good villain, but if you think about it, he's also a big mamma's boy.
Ouch, poor Chrisfffan getting pounced on for quoting my lil post at the bottom of page 5. But here's a summary of my thoughts in case you don't wish to go back and read the whole thing.
1. Sephiroth is my favorite FF villain
2. Kuja is pretty darned close.
3. Kefka didn't scare me.
Near the end of my post I mentioned that no matter how high your body count is, it won't make you the best villain. Now am I saying that Sephiroth could take Kuja or Kefka in a fight? No, not at all. I am perfectly capable of acknowledging that Kefka became a god, and that Kujas trance was really destructive.
But destructive ability does not make you a good villain. It's what you say and what you do and how you do. The style of it and the ability to just be a bastard. The fact that I keep on killing you and you keep on coming back. And one of the scariest things is being insane enough to think that causing the death of millions is the right thing to do.
These are all the reasons why I think Sephiroth is the best villain. He had the villainous qualities that both Kefka and Kuja had. He had the mysterious side and amazing speeches of Kuja, and the ability to pull off truly evil things like Kefka.
And just as a side note, someone made a comment that perhaps I haven't even played Final Fantasy VI (I know the post was directed towards Chrisfffan, but it was still my words that were commented on.) Let me give you some background. I am reasonably new FF player. I had played Final Fantasy for NES when I was a kid, but I wasn't a Final Fantasy fan until I played FFX. After playing that, I went out and bought Origins, Chronicles, Anthology, VII, VIII, IX, and even Tactics.
Seeing as that is how it is, I couldn't be a "blind Sephiroth fan." I know a lot of people love Kefka and Sephiroth because it reminds them of the first time they played VI and VII. Well, I'm not in that group, and I played them in order. And as a completely unbiased individual who has no nostalgic reasons for liking Sephiroth, Kuja, or Kefka I think my opinion is pretty rare one.
And one last thing, and I really feel like I need to repeat this. I am not judging a villain on how many people he killed and what kind of power he had. I am judging them by how much I hated them in game. Kefka was a god-clown. Kuja I felt bad for, and actually kind of liked. But I hated Sephiroth... that makes him the best villain in my opinion.
I agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.
And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:
Temple of the Ancients
Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).
Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
Maybe it's because when I see the fact Sephiroth is 'one' with Jenova is all based off the cells he has in him, It tends to make me wonder if I get a liver implant from someone, get their blood and what not, am I then their sister? Do I get another way awesome parent because we share the same, now unatural blood? No, I'm still pretty sure the one's who birthed me are my parents regardless if I had a liver and blood of another. Sephiroth -says- he's superior, last time I checked 98% of these people say he's insane, and last time I checked, you don't believe insane people.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalI agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.
And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:
Temple of the Ancients
Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).
Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
Testing made him crazy, testing with jenova cells, but he isn't from another planet, or half of anything. He was born human and tested on.
I don't consider failed test subjects to be anything higher than what they are, even if they -know- as much as a dead race. (I say failed, because regardless, Cloud was seen as a failed experiment and.. Omg! Destroys him!)
Try to look at this with as much normal logic as you can, instead of what video games tell you, and remember, Don't believe the crazy guy or we're all screwed.
Dragon Mage, you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalI agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.
And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:
Temple of the Ancients
Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).
Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was (SPOILER)the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!
The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
Sephiroth is (SPOILER)Hojos and Lecrecias son he was injected with Jenova cells while in the womb,the promised land is the northern cave because of the energy being gatherd because of the''crisies from the sky'',his goal was to repeat the ''crises from the sky'' incident on a larger scale because when the planet suffers a wound it gathers energy and sephiroth would be in the middle of the wound collecting energy and finally becoming a god.Some of you might be wondering''hey wait sephiroth was sleeping in the north crater until metor had crashed but metor was going to crash into Midgar,so how can he collect the energy''but i can only speculate that he would have ''woken up'' and went into the energy and to finish with Sephiroth IS human he is like cloud,a shinra experiment but on a more extreme scale
A) When i said "I agree with you about Sephiroth" i was talking about, Sephiroth trying to destroy the world and don't wanting to reach the PL. I agree with this. I never talked about Sephiroth's nature, because this is about interpretation. Some people belive that he is a Jenova/human and others don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by blitz_king10Dragon Mage, you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalI agree with you about Sephiroth, but about the Promised Land, the Omega Guide say that the Promised Land is a mistery. The Cetra think that is the Lifestream, but Shinra and Sephiroth think that is the Northern Crater. Each person have their own interpretation of what is the PL, but no one know what trully is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon Mage
Resuming, the UOG don't guive us an answer about it, meaning that any interpretation is valid.
And Avarice-ness, this is a quote from the game:
Temple of the Ancients
Sephiroth:... Ah, but i have. I'm far superior to the Ancients. I became a traveler of the Lifestream and gained the knowledge and wisdom of the Ancients.
Do you know what that means Avarice-ness? That means that he have the knowledge of the Cetra, the knowledge about Jenova's true nature. He is not a Cetra and he don't want to reach the Promised Land, because the UOG said that to Sephiroth, the Promised Land was the Northern Crater(that he already reached).
Do you know what that means, Avarice-ness?
That means that you just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was (SPOILER)the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!
The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
C)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultimania Omega Guide
Sephiroth was not trying to reach the Promised Land, because in his mind, he was in the Promised Land(Northern Crater) during all the game.
Read the UOG, and then talk to me again, okay?
Who are the Ultimania Guides written by? If it is anyone other then Square I'm going to laugh.
Square wrote them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
Good. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyushikazeSquare wrote them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
I think that just because a game gets popular, that doesn't mean they need to start writing indepth essays about what the game was about, if they wanted to add all this indepth stuff in, put it in the game. I played the game the day it came out, I've had an idea the day it came out and it all came from playing a game, not reading things square added in via book instead of video game. In my opinion, anything outside of things in the gameplay isn't worth it, so if they -EVER- remake it (Hopefully not. e e) then they might as well add in all the things they figured they'd tell you in guides. Adding to a good story doesn't make it better, it can make it worse or it can make it drag on, oddly enough Square did both! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoGood. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyushikazeSquare wrote them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
So, you ignore what SE say about the game, and then you say something like "You just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there"?! And what credibility you have?! You are deliberatly ignoring the facts!Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarice-nessI think that just because a game gets popular, that doesn't mean they need to start writing indepth essays about what the game was about, if they wanted to add all this indepth stuff in, put it in the game. I played the game the day it came out, I've had an idea the day it came out and it all came from playing a game, not reading things square added in via book instead of video game. In my opinion, anything outside of things in the gameplay isn't worth it, so if they -EVER- remake it (Hopefully not. e e) then they might as well add in all the things they figured they'd tell you in guides. Adding to a good story doesn't make it better, it can make it worse or it can make it drag on, oddly enough Square did both! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbocoGood. With that said I feel the Ultimania Guides ruin the games. It takes away the expirence of you getting to imagine certain things which is why I try and forget they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyushikazeSquare wrote them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Kuja succeeded in his first set of plans, Sephiroth suceeded in becoming a god in AC and Yu Yevon succeeded even before the adventure started.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrthTater
And everyone know that, when we are talking about success, Delita wins.
If i want to, i can write in Wikipedia that Kefka is the most weak character in fiction.
1) Yes, he was a human but not wholly human. To be exact, he had alien DNA mixed into his otherwise wholly human DNA. The two mixed about equally. So he isn't human but he isn't alien either. He's a bastard half-breed, if you want to think of it that way.Quote:
Dragon Mage, you said:
A) that Sephiroth was never wholly human, when he was Spoiler: the son of Hojo and Lucrecia
B) That there are no 'ancients' and 'non-ancients'. Regular humans were the Cetra who stopped listening to the Planet, which makes a clear distinction between Cetra and non-Cetra.
C) implied that Sephiroth was trying to destroy the Planet, which would destroy the Lifestream and so destroy the Promised Land, which was his other aim. The Omega Guide states that the Promised Land is a mystery (as opposed to a 'mistery'), and so it was entirely possible to destroy the Lifestream and not the Promised Land.
D) that children and unborn babies go to Limbo. How do you know how the universe works?
It looks like you've just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth (and the nature of the universe) right there. Thanks for playing!
The Crystal, you quoted and agreed with A) and C). You, too, have just lost your credibility on knowing Sephiroth right there. Thanks for playing!
2) If you're saying that Cetra and humans are two completley different spieces, you are mistaken. They are the same race, but just different in one way. Like black people and non-blacks. Both are human, both are different. The Cetra were not their own seperate race.
3) Well, if he thought the Crater was the PL then that would be destroying the PL, now wouldn't it? Besides, he must have had some idea of what the PL was, and that it was on the Planet, or else he would never have had the need to destroy the humans by destroying their planet so that they couldn't get to it.
4) The bible tells me so. Ha.
Are you an Astrophysicist ? I didn't think so. So how the hell would you know how the frappin' universe works? And unless you have lived with Sephiroth or are a telepath and can read his frappin' mind, you have no credibility either. What we're doing here is plain conjecture with some facts that won't back up half of what we're saying. Now, you try and make yourself the almighty god of this thread and try to convince yourself that you are right, without a doubt, I will sick the flying monkeys on you. Fear the monkeys.
And it will be fixed. Wikipedia has a very good moderating team, although not everyone knows that. And don't try and compare Seph's feats to Kefka's they don't compare because Sephiroth wanted to absorb the lifestream, didn't happen did it? Kefka wanted to destroy the world, and that did happen. The World of Ruin was basically a destroyed planet, life was fading rapidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalKuja succeeded in his first set of plans, Sephiroth suceeded in becoming a god in AC and Yu Yevon succeeded even before the adventure started.Quote:
Originally Posted by DrthTater
And everyone know that, when we are talking about success, Delita wins.
If i want to, i can write in Wikipedia that Kefka is the most weak character in fiction.
I didn't know that. Interesting...Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldenboco
Sephiroth wanted to controll the Lifestream. In FFVII he thought that the best way to do it, was absorbing it, but he failed. BUT in AC he thought that the best way to do it, was corrupting it, and he succeeded.Quote:
And don't try and compare Seph's feats to Kefka's they don't compare because Sephiroth wanted to absorb the lifestream, didn't happen did it? Kefka wanted to destroy the world, and that did happen. The World of Ruin was basically a destroyed planet, life was fading rapidly.
If we are only talking about the original games, i agree wit you. But if we are talking about the entire story of the two universes, than Sephiroth succeeded.
But in the end both of them losed.
Kefka didn't succeeded, the only successfull villain in FF history, is Delita.